Were going to talk about the situation in spain. Were honored to have the ambassador of spain, mr. Pedro morenes. Hudson institute is a policy center, a think tank thats devoted to american leadership, and strong relationship with allies around the world. This very Conference Room was inaugurated by japanese Prime Minister abe last year and we worked a lot these past decades with our european allies and allies around the world. This is why were very honored to be able to host this conversation frank and open conversation about the situation in spain with the ambassador. Let me just briefly introduce you before we get into the matter at hand. You been the ambassador since april 2017 when you presented your credentials to President Trump. I guess this kept you busy since then. Before that you were the minister of defense of spain between 2011 and 2017. Youre a lawyer by profession. You had different lives and different perspectives you can bring to this issue. Its very interesting that we meet today because as probably many of you know today was the last day of the ultimatum, the deadline the Spanish Government gave to the leaders of the movement in catalonia to be explicit about their intentions for independence. Before we get into, i think its very interesting to beyond the emotions and the images and the Media Coverage that always focuses on the short term. I think its interesting to get into the historical and legal background of the situation and think about ways to move forward but before getting into this, where are we today . What is the situation today . Before we start with history, you neemean . Yesterday the president sent a letter to the government saying that he was not accepting the request whether or not independence had been declared. They asked for time looking for dialog dialogue. Time for nobody knows what. I think in the end too prolong the situation of uncertainty which is no good for the catalonia. No good for the rest of the spanish people and no good for the world look at this problem. Its a problem that another affects spain. It affects the rest of europe and instability in spain could affect as it was seen when the crisis. This is one of the reasons for what president obama had a long conversation with the president in those times because the problem, financial problem to spain as an example could affect all the worst financial system. We are speaking about system the scene or the frame of the spanish catalonia problems. This was yesterday. The president or government and the Vice President have answered these letter of president stating that basically that it is not acceptable that he is not defining himself regarding something that the institution establishes its an obligation of the government to ask for whether or not hes declaring independence in order to be able to take the necessary measures to avoid such a tremendous and unacceptable attitude of the catalonia government. I think in these two letters, letters demand of the president you can find the reality of what it is here. Hes the last person that wants the situation happening. That is for sure. This uncertainty, this turmoil, first of all, we come to a bit of history. The thing is if we analyze the history of catalonia, it hasnt always been a region very particularly in spain. There are others. In 1492, we decided to do 300 years before this country. Now after that we are building spain after the constitution of 1978 in one all sensitivities that we could have politically, economically, culturally and this is what we have build in spain. Inna agnalyze the situation regarding the neighbors, france, spain and the middle ages of before that, you see that the catalonians have always been the situation been always better when they were together with the rest of spain. When the kingdom was united in 1492, the kingdom many, many years before. Ray rah ramon married the daughter and it seems it was a part from the others which were occupying catalonia. We are the same people and we have the same interests. We lost cuba and the fiphilipp s philippines, catalonias were there. We were either the beginning of 19th century catalonia was there. They were there because they felt they were spanish. The rights have never been as high as now. This is exactly what the president reminded that the president when this type of victims of the catalonia. Thank you very much. I want to mention to the audience a bit later well have questions. We can write down the questions and ask them. Were a bit limited with time. October 1st, the Catalonia Parliament decides to pass this bill. The courts have deemed illegal to pass a referendum on independence as people here who have felt know the question of the independence was supported by 92 of voters. The violence that we seen in the streets and what some people call the Police Repression against this referendum. This mind sight if there was not a better way to have managed this whole situation. The last thing that the government want to use his force here some of the countries have found out. The last resource for them is the use of force. Violence is a different thing. Use legitimate force to get the law accomplished is that the governments have all over the world since many years ago. Its not something that it is for like a conceptual understanding of life. It is the way we have decided after many thousands of years tosoever the problems that we have between ourselves and to help us to keep peace, keep order and keep the people in a very, all the rights that people have in the best possible way. This is first. The use of force. I repeat it is the last resource. Governments they have in the end if the people do not accomplish thats why countries very democratic and they have police. They have resources to keep the law as the ruler of the society. Whoever has jump over the legitimate force, use of legitimate force ordered by the judges, by the way, and has been special violent in the use of legitimate force, this is something that we will, as we have done in the past we will look as a nonacceptable attitude and whoever has that from the head of the government the police will be subject to the law. Images have been really force. We have living in the world of images. Images not always reflect the reality. Images can be used for not to express the truth but to express political understanding of the situation. People giving these images to media or media utilizing images with this regard not to reflect reality but political position towards a problem. Its been very clear. We have the obligation and we need to go and to see what is the reality its not acceptable. Used to say things that are not true. All over the world. If they reflect the truth they are credible. The government and the credibility. How do we get there . How do we get to the Spanish Government using this force that you call legitimate. How do we get to situation of october 1st . What are the different stops and options . I mean october 1st is not the beginning of this story. September 6th, the original not taking into consideration the opposition at all. Its well known. They approve some loss. Against the institution and which had no consideration of most and democratic way you can imagine the decision of opposition even not listening to that. The rebellion of the spain based on these grievances that they claim they are suffering. This is the most undemocratic way of acting as the most democratic which is like the people freeing themselves against the oppression of spain which is a democracy recognized in any in the world. Its taken us a lot of time to arrive to spain, to arooifr where we are now. The people are more than 60 years or 50 years. We know exactly what i mean when i say this. If you analyze the 19th century and the 20th century of spain, you see what it has been in the past for our country to arrive where we are. Genetics of the spanish people and the best, of course, is our capacity to open our doors to the people in the world. The list country which i know that could be accused of or whatever can believe the government is. Thats why we are where we are. We are hard workers. We have to get out from this i crisis which was not produced by ourselves. This crisis is a little bit in the growth of what is happening in catalonia. All of us, all the the people in spain we have done a tremendous effort to get out from the crisis which spain and as i said before they hold europe. You talked about the institution of 1978 which was the spanish transition to democracy. You have to be one of most decentralized constitutions, give a lot of regional autonomy. Within this frame work what is the path to getting out of this crisis. Does it mean more autonomy to catalonia . Are there examples that could be used . Do you need to change the institutions to this . I see your point. The origin of the status of the different autonomies in spain are very much in history. Most country had no relation with king of spain. Accept the ends with it. This is an origin which was based in some old law that they have. The balance is a, we should respect the legal frame and we view the legal frame you can or we can speak about everything. That is the point. That is the point. Its not the same. If they have some grievances and they want to solve that, we are not somebody will probably laugh here. I understand the solution of problem of catalonia is look. That is the key. We are linked with a lot of familiar and business and interest with catalonia people. We need to have some certainties. We need to go through the law. I dont think any single problem can not be discussed within the frame of the constitution which accomplishes that even the constitution can be changed with the agreement of the whole spanish people. At the same time we say we want to change this agreement, this agreement that we had in 1978 to overcome problems. Another type of problem we had. That is the situation and it was said if the time comes to the different type of agreement, we have that instrument. We have that instrument. No one can decide what is the legal instrument that we have the decide for himself. In that moment we have to a political understanding, different from the agreement which was approved by the 90 of the catalonia people. That is the real 90 . That 90 from them. Now the catalonias have voted in many occasions in the late time when they have such an instability. Legal control and not the pantomine that we have seen on the first of october with this so called referendum which is a mockery for the whole democratic way of expressing the political will of the people. I think we can gather some of the questions. Ill ask a quick question on the international reaction. Weve heard President Trump and you mentioned it when the Prime Minister was in the United States a few weeks ago. I think he talked about a coup. We had the discourse from angela merk merkel. I think you have said something which is not exactly accurate. They have said something more than what you have said. They have said they are against independence. They want a united spain. They know what this means. If this happens europe will have a tremendous problem. They have reacted first with sympathy or sympathy to spain. Second because they are understand what this means if the situation and undemocratic and out of law political moments. It came in the manner of what that mean. When he was here and i was there we need not to stress President Trump and his administration for saying what he said. Nothing is outside. Thats the principle of democracy. Together which reflect these law in day by day of these areas, political areas in spain. That is very simple. Very simple. To the clarity of the truth reflects the clarity of the truth and its a very good time for fishermen. Basically means that troubled water are good for the people trying to get things for troubled waters. Very bad. We have a lot of interesting questions. The first one is very interesting. Even you talk about the illegal conditions in which the referendum was held and turn out was low, we still have established that two Million People voted for independence. How does the Spanish Government intend to seduce or persuade them . What is the dialogue . First of all, it is very difficult that somebody in give some validity to that type of vote. I would not enter again in how these votes took place with these balance before. There was much more people votes than the people. Forget about that. The last election in cat catalonia reflected the reality of catalonian people. I will not go and not accept the referendum, the so called referendum of this type of thing to reflect the feelings of the catalonia people. It is not true. It doesnt reflect with the guarantees of the system. If we yutilize this type of thig which is done in a very difficult way as democratic way we can confusing democracy with this type of attitudes who are not cannot be as the way which it is utilized all over the world. How should we deal with that . Its very simple. We need to come to the result of everybody express the political will then within this frame came to the Spanish Parliament and to express or to the office of the president of the government to express what the grievances are and try to listen carefully and to try to help and arrange these problems so the people can govern with a vision and to try so the matters which is the way in which we want to do it. We have the will to do it. One of the options that the Spanish Government has is using article 155 of the constitution to take direct authority over the catalonia region is one of the questions here. What would that entail and in which circumstance would the Spanish Government go to this option . The circumstances are very well defined in the communications that the government has sent. The government get to impede this type of activities that they are carried out by the present autonomous government. We will not suspend the autonomy. We will not from that very moment catalonia continues we continue having our own autonomous government. This is role according to the law. What will be the steps. The article 155 is an article that even autonomy has not accomplished with the law. Not get rid of it. It somes from the decision of these instruments of the legal government of catalonia to work. Its grads yul. The government is asking for. Its the law. Needed to ask the people not accomplishing with the law to do it. Second if they say no, we havent. We have given to them time until the 10 00 and the first day, accept to be. To come back and to start negotiating whatever they want. If they say no, they claim for immedia mediation and all these scenarios. This is unloyal. This is very unloyal with the rest of the spaniards. This doesnt reflect that all that do not provoke the democratic legitimacy. Its to say we have done a thing which is not acceptable. We came back to democracy which is the state of law. You need to know its not a national thing what is happening. You can see it in this regard. Okay. One of the questions that come back pretty often is it compares with scotland. Comparison with scotland and the question whether there could be a legal frame work or possibility to hold a legal referendum on independence which was the path Prime Minister cameron took in the uk. First of all, scotland and catalonia have legally in this regard. T as i have mentioned within the law everything is possible. Without the law, no. On the question of memory and dictatorship and the 20th century in spain, obviously what claims is that theyve been oppressed in 21st century until the transition to democracy but do you think the spanish authorities have done maybe a good enough job at confronting this and confronting the years of dictatorship and talking about these issues or if it can still be a matter for the catalonians . Not speaking about the younger generations, we do not have any type of regarding our democracy and our past. This is first of all. Second to build something which is balanced and which has provoked to the spanish people the best, their history in our history. This is something that it is very important. Second, today we are living in a world in which democracy is being criticized in many countries and particularly in democratic countries. There are the crisis of liberal democracy and so on. We should be very careful regarding that because there are promises that political promises and other types of regimes in the world that are trying to undermine the principles in which democracy, the freedom justice, the state of law, the way which the political ideals can be conveyed to parliament. Accused of not being useful to face the problem that humanity is facing. Frankly, i dont feel that the answer is in the regimes that are trying to convince us that other types of systems are better than ourselves. Even if they could obtain some type of results in the economic area which is not the only area. We have to be very careful about protecting our systems. This is what we are exactly doing in spain. We do not have to build our democracy considering what we were in the past. We have to build a democracy considering that what we want to be in the future. This is exactly what we are doing. Looking ahead. No looking to the past. Not justifying things in a full history but in a future which is waiting for us and we hope that all of us including the catalonia we are able to enjoy and our allies and friends in the European Union and this country and whatever in the world they want to share values and principles and our friendship. You talk about liberal democracy. Its one of the questions. To what extent do you think this is in the context of the different crisis that europe has been facing that you use. You talk about the economic crisis. We have seen the rise of populism and rise of the far right all over europe but also the challenge of russian influence supporting these movements. We seen on social media characters like Julian Assange or snowden pushing the issue of catalonia. Should will be a connection with the broader european mover this is not. We have the papers every day. We have this made me to commend something that comes from my previous responsibilities. We are facing a dangerous world. This dangerous world is because we have two more spaces than we have in the past. We have the land. We have the air and we have the sea. Now we have the cyber and we have the outer space. In the spaces that we are living every day, we have enemies. These enemies try to destabilize what is the strength that we have which is precisely democracy. Precisely democracy. In this new world we are living we should be extremely careful and because as we saw in the crisis in georgia and the crisis in crimea and the crisis we have seen how these Public Opinion could be managed and here could be managed in no more, no less than the most important fist of democracy which would be the day of elections. From countries trying to weaken the system that we have given ourselves. Nobody knew who were the people doing the bad things there. We are facing different types of threats to our systems. Tourism as well using that. All of that they are united. We have to defend ourselves and we need to know that this is not for free. The attacks exist. Difficult to fight. Yes. We are not ready. We are reacting but in the future we should be preventing, detiering people. Exactly the same as we do in the land, in the sea and in the air. The prevention is the key for not needing to utilize. That is very costly, very difficult to sell to the Public Opinion. To the taxpayers and to the people who are the rulers of the their own destinies. This is exactly what we have to do. If we do not do that, we will face problems for sure as we are doing. We are facing. For sure as we ae doing, as we are facing. You mentioned the economic crisis and euro crisis, one of the backgrounds for this situation. One of the arguments, claims made by this leader in catalan, it receives more than it receives from the rest of the country, and so, what you make of this claim is that in the resolution in this crisis a possibility for the economy in the region of catalan . We have built probably the most challenging political political project that it is today in the world, probably in the 1776 this country, today is building the European Union. The European Union, north, south, east and the west, no. The European Union is built on solidarity and the European Union is built in the way that everything has to go in a balanced way. This is probably the most generous and intelligent political, that is why it is very difficult, that is why it is very difficult because every now and then the selfishness and the lack of solidarity is damaging the consistency of the political project of europe, exactly the same in spain. We need to develop spain in which the rich countries, the rich parts of spain are sustaining, helping the poorer parts in spain. Exactly the same as in the very democratic and balanced system where the richest pay more than the poor. That is exactly the case. The balances, exact balance whether they pay more than they should, i think that the figures can be studied and the complaining that it is unfair is not in this way. I want to add something, as we say in this country, it is not only the trade balance which matters, it is also the investment balance which matters and catalonia, the rest of the spanish people in catalonia, catalonia exists in the rest of spain and particularly the trade is sustained. The economic call part of catalonia is sustained in the most important part of it because of the spanish. This is very important. This is very important to understand. Today, there are some people unfortunately, i am very sad about this and i hope this will stop immediately on their return, the most Important Companies over at catalonia, more than 400 have left catalonia because of this crisis, which has been provoked by the instability. This is the contradictions in terms. How can you protect your country if you are forcing your rich your wealth to get to feed your country. This is something they have to answer. I would like where it is naturally has to be and not forced by a crisis like this. We speak about entities, but hopefully, we shouldnt have the problem of financial deficits. This could be a tremendous situation. There is another thing i would like to mention. It has a little bit to do, in spain, i was some days ago with a man of gp mode. When i asked him the problem of catalonia and spain, i said, we only see the growing of spain now. We continue to be 3. 1. Second, we see that the premium that you pay is lower than when we took the government. And, third, i see that the stock market is rebounding every day. That is the reality of spain. That is the reality of spain. I think were running out of time. I really want to thank you, ambassador. This was an extremely interesting conversation. Its always important to have a frank and open dialogue and go beyond the images and emotion especially in a world we watch social media and 24 hour news cycle and get the background in history. I was rereading last week a beautiful book by a spanish novelist, a nonfiction book, on the failed coup in 1991 and the strength of spanish democracy at this moment after the transition. I think it gives background how strong spanish democracy has been especially after a such a tough century and decade. Good to step back and look at the history in the broader context. Thank you so much and please join me in thanking the ambassador today. Thank you. [ applause ] President Trump will address the heritage foundations annual president s club meeting tomorrow night where hes expected to outline his proposals for tax reform. Live coverage at 7 30 eastern on cspan. Youll also be able to watch online at cspan. Org or listen on the free cspan radio app. Cspans Student Competition is in full swing. This weeks theme is the constitution and you. Were asking you to take a portion of the u. S. Constitution and use a video to illustrate why its important. Open to all middle school and High School Students 6 through 12 and provide a documentary and include cspan programming and opinion. 100,000 will be awarded in cash prizes. The grand prize of 5,000 goes the students or team with the best overall entry. This years deadline is january 18th. Earlier this month, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments. It focuses on a legal resident understand going deportation after criminal deportations. Alejandro was detained three years without a bond hearing. He and others later filed a Class Action Lawsuit challenging the federal detention statutes. This oral argument is an hour. Well hear argument next in case 151204, jennings versus rodriguez. Mr. Stewart. Mr. Chief justice and may it please the court. This court has often stretched e