Transcripts For CSPAN3 Environmental Regulations Impact On Farmers And Ranchers 20180208

On how they have been impacted by environmental regulations. The Senate Environment and Public Works Committee heard from industry stakeholders, including representatives from the American Farm bureau, the National Farmers union and the National Pork producers council. This hearing is an hour and 45 minutes. Good morning. I call this hearing to order. Today, well hold a hearing on the impact of federal environmental regulations and policies on American Farming and ranching communities. The discussion here today is not about the value of environmental regulations but about how some federal regulations can be inflexible, antiquated, duplicative and ultimately harmful to american agriculture, a critical part of our nations economy. Members of this committee should work to ensure environmental laws are strong and effective without being overly burdensome. This is often a difficult task. The United States is blessed with diverse ecosystems that often require different kinds of stewardship to remain healthy. In wyoming, we have an abundance of sage brush brainy, forests, a variety of mountain habitats and wetlands. Wyoming ranchers and farmers are familiar with each ecosystem and its needs. This is where they live, work and invest their energies. Farmers and ranchers are the original stewards. They understand that landscapes and watersheds need to be healthy to support native plants, wildlife, crops and livestock. Theyre living professor that interacting with nature can be done in an environmentally sound way, often leaving the resources in better condition than they found them. Washington policies do not always translate well in Rural America. When im home in wyoming, i often hear how out of touch environmental regulations have become. For far too long, the people who feed, clothe and house our nation have been burdened by policies that fail to reflect on the ground realities. We can look no further than the Obama Administrations failed waters of the United States rule. Under that rule, farmers and ranchers across the country were told that irrigation ditches, ponds and puddles were, quote, navigable waters and could be regulated by the federal government. Im happy to say last week the delay in implementation of the rule became final. To make sure that any new rule protects americas Water Resources while not unnecessarily burdening farmers, ranchers, Small Businesses and communities across america. When writing legislation, Congress Must take care to ensure policy actually achieves the designed objective. Agencies must do the same when developing regulations. I believe that we should prioritize updating and revising policies that while wellintentioned were not designed to micromanage agriculture production. One example is the new animal waste emission reporting requirements. Over the past several months, farmers and ranchers struggled to comply with ambiguities and ambiguous Agency Directive following an april 2017 decision in the d. C. Circuit court. That decision fundamentally changed reporting requirements under the comprehensive Environmental Response compensation and Liability Act. And the Emergency Planning and community right to know act. The ruling meant up to 100,000 farmers and ranchers who had never been required to report under these laws were suddenly required to comply. Even though they wanted to comply with the ruling, the process and the implications of compliance were unclear. Because they both were not written with the intent of regulating these farms and ranches. The requirement to report emissions from animal waste came without context and largely without any agency guidance. Let me now turn to the nepa, the National Environmental policy act. And their impact on agriculture operations without mentions nepa. Nepa is at the core of every decision in each land use plan, Resource Management proposal, trailing acrossing permit and grazing allotment that farmers and ranchers need. Nepa is not limited to agriculture. For years, weve discussed the effect nepa has had on delaying the construction of road, bridges, parks, and other critical infrastructures. While environmental analysis can be important in many case,completing nepa takes far too long. As nepa delays stifle ecosystems need changed and farmers, ranchers and their families wait for an answer. As we will hear from todays witness, these are families whose lives, livelihoods, hopes and dreams are inseparable from the lands and the waters they work so hard to keep clean. These are not the only examples of punishing regulations that farmers and ranchers in and the communities they live in face. Today, we will also hear about duplicative permitting requirements of the application of pesticides already covered under the federal insecticide, fung side act or fifra. Issues of privacy and the collection of data on farmers and ranchers. How how the endangered species act has been implemented and the subsequent negative impact on ranching and farmers. Before we move on to our witnesses today, id like to turn to the Ranking Member, senator carper for his remarks. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Thanks very much for bringing us all together today, a special thanks to our witnesses. I feel privileged to be able to introduce our secretary of agriculture for a second tour in a moment. First, let me give a brief statement and id like to introduce michael. No other sector of our nations economy success is more closely tied with the quality of our environment than is Agriculture Sector. Farmers are our nations original conservationists. They understand better than anyone else the need for clean air, for clean water and highquality soil in order to produce the food that we need, not just to feed ourselves, but, really, to feed the world. In delaware, over 40 of our land is dedicated to farming. Our states Agricultural Sector employs some 30,000 dealians, while contributing nearly 8 billion a year to our states economy. First in the nation for value of product produced per acre. First in the number of lima beans harvested. First in i think in sussex county, which is the Third Largest county in america, third in production of chickens by county. We do all of this while practicing exceptional Environmental Stewardship while our Farming Community is working closely in partnership with usda, with state agencies and our universities. Our nations environmental laws have been instrumental in helping us deliver clean air, clean water and productive lands for our farmers and our ranchers, and i should add that a list to to that list our foresters, our fishing communities because their success is also greatly dependent on a healthy environment and vital ecosystems. For example, epa has found that the 2005 Clean Air Act rules that protect our lungs from ground smog also protect our crops. And animals. To the tune of 13 billion in estimated benefits by 2020. The clear air act also protects crops from damaging ultra violet radiation by protecting the planets ozone layer and limiting the use of ozone deplating chemicals. It turns out those Clean Air Act will produce an estimate 7. Other Environmental Issues where we need to act and do more to help our farmers. For example, Climate Change is already disrupting the livelihood of farmers and ranchers. The federal governments Third National Climate Assessment found that, and i quote, climate drugs to Agricultural Production have increased in the past 40 years and are projected to increase over the next 25 years. By midcentury and beyond, these impacts will be increasingly negative on crops and livestock, closed quote. The report issued in november of 2017 confirmed these trends. I look forward to hearing the testimony of our witnesses on this topic. Other Environmental Programs have created new Income Opportunities for farmers. The renewable fuel standard has been a Major Economic driver in farm communities across our country. In addition, tens of thousands of farmers across our country are enrolled in usdas Conservation Programs that pay farmers for the Water Quality and Habitat Conservation services they provide and protect. I acknowledge, though, that sometimes environmental requirements can be complex. The chairmans referred to this already. But those requirements can be confusing to those who farm. One such example is the air emissions reporting requirement for farms under two laws. The comprehensive Environmental Response compensation and Liability Act ceremony as cercla, and known as epcra. The Bush Administration promulgated a rule that exempted all but the largest farms from reporting under these farms. In 2017, the d. C. Circuit court overturned the 2008 rule, putting farmers on notice they would soon need to begin reporting. Unfortunately, epas reporting guidance has been confusing and unhelpful. Along with a number of other clears here in this room and outside this room, ive been pushing epa for several months to do better. Epa agreed it had more work to do, at our urging agreed to request more time from the court to continue developing workable guidance, and if necessary, to give congress the time to act on this issue. Thankfully, the court agreed. Last week, as we know, gave epa until may 1st to get this right. With the 2008 rule no longer in place, im committed to working with towards a solution that balances the burden of this reporting on our farmers with the legitimate needs of Public Health and Emergency Response officials. And the right of local Community Members to know about the pollution in their air. This is what the Bush Administration sought to do in 2008, and it is how i believe we should proceed now. If i could, mr. Chairman, just a quick word of introduction im tempted just to read his bio. I wont do that. But really an incredible record of service and achievement. The scuse family is highly regarded in our state. We have three counties. Just lower to those in the middle of our state just north of dover. The scuse family has farmed there forever and enjoyed great access and really been a role model for a lot of folks in farming and outside of farming. I mentioned in my statement that farmers were our first original conservationists. The scuse family is a great example of that. In addition to serving and the work hes done with his own family business, hes served as our secretary of agriculture, not once, almost eight years under governor he also served as her chief of staff for a period of time. In the Current Administration of governor john carney, hes eye secretary of agriculture. Were delighted that he is. In addition to that, he was asking the Obama Administration to come down here and to serve in washington in a number of Senior Leadership positions, including undersecretary at the department of ag, acting deputy secretary of agriculture. Acting secretary of agriculture for our country. Its just extraordinary. And im just thrilled that he can be here today. Hes a good friend. Someone that im honored to say hes a delawarean and were honored youre here with us today, michael, and i absolute you for tall youve done and continue to do. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, senator carper. We have a number of introductions to be made. Senator ernest and senator moran have introductions. Senator ernest. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Howard hill, and as a veter veterinarian with iowa select farms. And for Murphy Family farms in rose hill, North Carolina, and was head of veterinary microbiology in the Iowa State University diagnostic laboratory. Dr. Hill served as president of the nppc for the 2014 2015 term and prior to that was a member of the nppc board of directors, serving on a number of committees and cochairing the environmental policy committee. He also served on the board of directors of the iowa pork producers, where he was the chairman of the Research Committee and the contract growers committee. Dr. Hill owns sow farm which produces breeding stock. He partners with his son on the family farm where they have a purebred angus herd and 2,500 acres of row crops. Thank you for being here today, dr. Hill. We look forward to hearing your testimony. Thank you so much. Thank you, senator ernest. Senator moran . Thank to you and the Ranking Member for having our hearing. Its my honor to introduce a kansas farmer from wheaten, kansas, in the North Central part of our state. Don has been actively engaged in the National Farmers union, the kansas Farmers Union for a very long time. He is a leader in agriculture in Rural America and i hold don in high regard for his love for and passion for small towns across our state and reneck niche recot if Rural America is going to have a future, its because farmers and ranchers are having success. I appreciate him. Especially here on the conservation issue, he has a great love for the land and understands how important clear skies and good soil and clean water is to kansans across our state. So, don, i welcome you to the committee and thank you for your testimony. I look forward to hearing it. Thank you, senator moran. We also have joining the panel mr. Duval. But first, were going to hear from mr. Hanson. Nels joins us today from recall raulings, wyoming. For the public lands council. A Third Generation rancher, nels knows that raising cattle, sheep and horses is full of challenges. Over the years, nels has worked with the university of wyoming and the bureau of Land Management to develop cooperative range land monitoring, which has allowed nels to become internately familiar with both the needs of his livestock and range land ecosystems. His successful stewardship is evident in the longevity of his family ranch, which has also been recognized for many years in wyoming and nationally. The bureau of Land Management recognized nelss range with a stewardship award in 2000 and in 2001, the ranch was named cooperator of the year. Nels has been recognized repeatedly for his leadership in the industry and in his community. He has served as a member of the search and rescue and was inducted into the wyoming agriculture hall of fame in 2010. Nels, im pleased to have you here today to lend your wealth of experience with the committee. I ask that you please proceed. Thank you, chairman barrasso, Ranking Member carper, members of the committee. Thank you for having me here today to address the federal regulations effect how the federal regulations affect my ranch and others across the country. My name is nels hanson. My anymofamily has been ranchin our area for 120 years. Today my son is hope taking care of the ranch so that i can be here with you today to discuss these issues. Past chairman of the wyoming state grazing board. Member of the National Cattlemans Association and i currently serve as secretary treasurer for the National Public lands council. Our ranch covers 230,000 acres of ground in central wyoming, consists of private and blm in the checker board land pattern. And we spanned over three watersheds. Beyond ranching, i spent much of the last 30 years working on these issues that were discussing today in wyoming, in washington, d. C. And across the west. As recently as last week at the national cattlemans convention, i taught a class on working with federal agencies and trying to educate people how to get along and work towards a goal. In our interactions with the federal agencies, our First Priority is always to identify Common Ground and to Work Together. But we are constantly tangled in a web of federal regulations. Im here today to talk to about just a few of those regulations that impact my ranch and my family. As long as it remains on the books, the obamaera wotus rule continues to be a serious threat to our operation. On our ranch, we wrestle with the management of three watersheds. None of them drain directly into at adjacent held in waters. But under the ambiguous and overreaching 2015 rule, its impossible to know whether we are exempt or not. As a family rancher, i should not need to hire hydrologists, engineers and attorneys to figure this out. Im grateful for the administration has taken steps to roll back this rule and replace it with something more workable. But more work still needs to be done. The ranching Community Stands ready to help in any way we can. Another regulation i shouldnt be wrestling with in our cow calf operation is the reporting requirements under cercla and epcra. The simple fact is emissions from normal livestock operations should not be covered under this rule. In particular, it is absurd to require such reporting for a 3,000head operation like mine spread across 60 square miles. Such as operation would never require a coordinated Emergency Response. Congress needs to fix this. As we all know, you cant discuss ranching anywhere in the country without taking into account wildlife management. Two pieces of legislation that make it very difficult for me are the endangered species act and the Migratory Bird act. However wellintended, esa is 40 years old. It needs to be updated to refleb the Lessons Learned and the issues of today. The path forward must work for all, not just environmental litigants that pay their bills with proceeds from legal settlements. Our best opportunity to modernize esa is through last years bipartisan western governors recommendations to this committee. But only addressing esa does not solve the whole problem. Populations are of ravens are exploding on my ranch and across the west. This act that affect the sagegrouse and our livestock. The for me, its the ravens, in other parts of the countries, the black vultures and other predators are the issue. In conclusion, please recognize that the ranchers are your eyes and ears on the land. We are your best tool to achieve any real conservation objectives on the ground. Turn us loose. No one is more dedicated to the health of the land than those of white house are dependent on it. Let the ranchers do what we do best. Everyone will benefit. The species, the ecosystem and the Rural Communities. Thank you again for hearing my testimony. I look forward to answering any questions. Well thank you so much for traveling here from wyoming and thanks for that excellent testimony. Appreciate it. Mr. Duval . Good morning, chairman barrasso and Ranking Member carper and the members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to come to talk to you about real world impact on overregulation of farmers and ranchers. My name is zippy duval and im a beef Poultry Farmer in georgia. My son is home. Hes four generation. I was elected president of American Farm bureau two years ago and i visited farms in all 50 states since ive become president , and i talked to them about the things that keep them awake at night. The two issues that have come up at almost every farm that i visited were the lack of adequate legal supply of labor and the burden of overregulation on their farms. Regulatory process today is a product of decades of administrative and judicial decisions without much effort to integrate these decisions into a system that makes sense to all of us. Farmers and ranchers have shared their stories about the impact of regulations on their lives and their farms as i visit them. In west virginia, a Poultry Farmer who operates one of the cleanest farms that weve ever seen is spending tens of thousands of dollars on legal bills to defend her farm against the court in the in court against the epas misinterpretation of the clean water act. Federal officers without any authority from congress and without Public Notice have used what amounts to extortion against ranchers in utah to force their hand over to force them to hand over their private water rights as a condition of getting federal grazing permits. The endangered species act has not been successful in recovering listed species, only 50 species have been recovered out of 1,661 species listed in the past 45 years. Thats a 3 success rate. 11 species have gone extinct while under this federal protection. Meanwhile, the esa has made it harder for farmers and ranchers to use their land and protect their livestock. And last but not least, the epa under the provisions of Previous Administration finalizes the waters of the u. S. Rule that epitomizes the failure of our current regulatory system. The laws that govern this process the law that governs this process, the administrative procedure act, is more than 70 years old and its way overdue for reform, especially when you consider how social media can shape public input. Finally, mr. Chairman, i have met farmers and ranchers who are not sure that they want to encourage their children to remain on the farm. And i remind you of the average age of the American Farmer is 58 years old. A generation of farmers and ranchers will be hanging up their hats within a few years, and we need to ask ourselves, who is going to be willing to step up and take the place to grow the food for our tables in america and around the world . As committed as young people are, like my son zeb, who are farming and ranching, they cannot continue for the overregulatory burdens continue to grow. Farm income is down about 50 compared to about five years ago, but i assure you the regulatory costs have not gone down any. These facts would give pause to any even the most dedicated farmer and rancher around this country. I would like to close with a quote from a statesman from my home state, president jimmy carter. He signed an executive order on march 1978 that states, regulations should not impose unnecessary burdens on the economy, on individuals, on public and private organizations or on state and local governments. Regulations should develop should be developed through a process which ensures that Compliance Costs costs, paperwork and other burdens on the public are minimized. And then there is president trumps executive order of a year ago that requires agencies to repeal two rules for every one rule that they issue. And in signing that executive order, the president said every regulation should have to pass a simple test, does this make life better or safer for American Workers and consumers . This is not a partisan issue. This is about allowing our farmers and businesses to be productive. Its about a goal that i believe that we all share, a regulatory process that is credible, one that we can get behind instead of having to fight against. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and im glad to answer any questions that you and your colleagues have. Thank you very much, mr. Duvall for your testimony. Dr. Hill . Good morning, chairman barrasso, Ranking Member carper and members of the committee. Id also like to give special thanks to my home state senator joni ernest who has done a tremendous amount of work for iowa farmers. My name is dr. Howard hill. Im a veterinarian from cambridge, iowa. Pork producers are deeply committed to responsibly managing their animals and the manure they produce to protect water and air quality, and to maximize the manures benefit and value as a vital source of nutrients for drops we grow. Nppc and pork producers have a long and proud history of working cooperatively with environmental regulators at the state and federal levels and are supportive of federal Environmental Policies and programs if they are grounded in three primary principles. One, the Environmental Performance expectations for producers have a high probability of resulting in meaningful environmental improvements. Two, the measures involved are practical and affordable, and, three, producers are given a realistic amount of time to adopt the measures and associated systems to their operations so that they can continue to be profitable and successful. Nppc has worked with epa on numerous occasions to ensure the agencys rules meet those principles and that they ultimately protect the environment. One of the best examples of our cooperation cooperative effort was the National Air Emissions Monitoring study of the emissions of swine operations. Pork producers used about 6 million of their own funds to support that epa supervised thirdparty study and aapproximately 5,000 swine facilities enrolled in the epa with epa and air consent agreements that made the work possible. But when necessary, nppc will fight bad Environmental Policies and programs. Pork producers do not oppose environmental regulations, but they oppose rules that are not sound, effective and practical. An example of the latter is the requirement to report air emission releases. Almost all Livestock Farmers are now required to report ammonia emissions that result from the natural breakdown of animal waste. When the epa first issued the rules on those reports in 2008, all reporting on all but the largest operations were exempt because producers and epa never believed that routine agricultural emissions from manure constituted the type of emergency or crisis that they were intended to address. Animal agriculture also never understand how the reporting of farm emissions to the u. S. Coast guard would have supported the legitimate Emergency Response purpose of those regulations. The reports that required under epcra had to be made to state and local Emergency Response authorities in january 2009. At the time, the epa completely dropped the ball. Failed to provide any guidance to farmens on how to report emissions and failed to provide guidance to the state and local agencies that were going to receive those reports and as a result chaos ensued. Almost all producers trying to report emissions had difficulty reaching state and local Emergency Response authorities either because phone lines were overwhelmed or fax machines just ran out of paper. Those who did manage to get through and submit reports were met with disbelief and confusion. Statements such, as why are you submitting this to us . And what are we supposed to do with this information . Were common. In illinois, for example, farmers were told there was no rule requiring reporting and that they this was merely an internet hoax. In the southeast, epa told local authorities that the reports were supposed to be submitted to epa, epas water office. In the wake of that chaos, nppc and other agricultural groups in early 2009 filed lawsuits challenging epa, epas 2008 rule. Last april, d. C. Circuit finally ruled in this case, throwing out agriculture exemption from the two reporting rules and forces tens of thousands of Livestock Farmers to figure out how to estimate and report their emissions. The latest industry estimate of the number of animal producers now subject to reporting requirements is over 200,000. While the pork industry is certainly prepared to comply once at peels court mandates take effect, it should be noted that epa, u. S. Coast guard and state and local Emergency Response authorities have all gone on record saying not only is there no need for this information, but that its volume will create a Major Management challenge for them and that it will interfere with their other legitimate emergency functions. It is for this reason that nppc is supporting a legislative fix to address the requirements and we urge members of this committee to do likewise. To conclude, pork producers are proud of their environmental efforts over the past 50 years, a period that has seen at mount of pork produced doubled, while the use of feed, water and land has been reduced significantly and our Carbon Footprint as decreased by 35 . Nppc and the u. S. Pork industry stand ready to work with congress, federal and state agencies and anyone who is willing to work with us to help producers improve our Environmental Stewardship efforts and to address new challenges. Thank you. Thank you very much, dr. Hill. Secretary scuse . Good morning, chairman barrasso and Ranking Member carper and members of the committee. I appreciate the invitation to speak to you today about the impacts of federal regulations and policies on American Farming and ranching communities. Delaware has benefitted from many of the Environmental Policies and regulations that have come from our federal partners. Were able to see examples on a daily basis that are benefitting not only our family farms but also the state and our efforts to improve the overall environment. Middle town, delaware, once a large farmer community, continues to have good neighborly relations today. While our understanding of agriculture might not be the same as the original farm community, its citizens have embraced agriculture through education and advocacy. As you can imagine, the influx of additional residents has increased the usage of Water Resources while farmers still need to irrigate their drops. Through the towns waste Water Treatment plant, waste water is as part of the chesapeake watershed making sure runoff does not occur is extremely important. Delaware farmers are able to utilize a variety of conservation practices supported by research. The moneys that are provided for conservation districts and supplemented by usda, nrcs have been extremely important in enhancing and supporting usage of cover crops. They can reduce at mount of soil loss but can also epa has helped generate funs to support one of the best nutrient programs in the country thanks to senator carper with a dedicated staff we have been able to update our compliance standards, meeting the regulations set forth by epa. Weve been able to fund collaborations with thirdparty specialists to detect modelling and enhance new compliance standards. Increased demand for corn. In 2000, farmers produced 10 billion bushels of corn. By 2016, farmers were perusing 14. 6 bushels of corn to meet the demand. Dedicated to ethanol that improves their air quality and lessons our demand on nonrenewable resources but it also created additional feed markets. Poultry relocation programs have spawned a growing industry between Poultry Farms without acreage to utilize those in need of and cannot apply poultry lit tore their fields. The program is also created compost products and pilot Energy Generation projects. In delaware, weve noted Climate Change is including patterns increased temperature with risk of drought and extreme rainfall and events. In addition to the obvious effects of recently frequent drought condition, Climate Change is also predicted to result in higher frequency and intense rain storms. Increasing intervals of intense storms presents a risk forri agriculture practices designed for trapping and treating capacity for storm water or combined water flows from agricultural areas. These intense rainfall events will impact crops as the timing of these intent rainfall cut result in crop failures and thus more susceptible to flood pentagon in some cases, rainfall can also destroy older crops, particularly fruits and vegetables like water mellens and cantaloupes. Can lead to fruit trees setting earlier blossoms, which increases the chance of frost freeze damage as was witnessed in the midatlantic in the spring of 2016. Lastly, as the climate warms, changes, there is a chance that certain agricultural for instance, some pet ranges may have been limited by cold temperatures but as that maximum low temperature for an area rises, then that pest now is able to expand its range and survive where it previously could not. The Delaware Agriculture Department is partnering with usda on agriculture conservation through programs like the Environmental Quality incentive programs that help recover crops and improve our environment or ag land easements that benefit delawares farm preservation program. There is a need for extreme lining efforts. It took us three years of negotiation until terms were agreed upon in those three years, delaware lost its funding. The uncertainty and continuation of deadline extension has caused confusion for producers in states and there is a need for a legislative fix. We dan not keep putting farmers on notice wondering when they will be hit with legal liability for untimely or inaccurate reporting. Value and understand the need to protect the waters of the u. S. The department of agriculture and the states are willing to put the effort to assist farmers, but we would appreciate a common sense approach to address the issues as well as timely outreach in education materials. We need a clear definition that is objective. Finally, an additional option to improve the environmental conditions would be to remove environmentally sensitive untilage acreage from consideration. Changing the crp program acreage from 24 million to 30 million acres. Ladies and gentlemen, our farmers and ranchers are, in fact, the first true environmentalists and i want to thank you for the opportunity for being here today. Thank you very much for your testimony. Mr. Teske . Thank you, chairman barrasso, Ranking Member carper for this opportunity to visit today. I especially thank you, senator moran, for that more than gracious introduction. Ive had the honor of considering the senator a friend for many, many years. The bad part of that, he knows all the dirt on me so this makes me a little nervous, but my wife kathy and i farm a farm operation in wheaten, kansas, on the eastern edge of the foot hills. Its ranching and cropping. We farm it along with our children and grandchildren. Weve got a slug of grandchildren. Grandchildren are fun. Im the fifth generation on the farm. God willing, our children will be the sixth and grandchildren seventh, and, you know, my goal here today is to Work Together to try to figure out how to give them a world they can prosper and thrive in. So i currently essential as Vice President of the National Farmers union. Im not quite sure how that ever worked out, but when i was contacted to visit with you today, my initial thoughts were to decline the invitation. I thought it would be too controversial and didnt think i was any expert to talk about it. Upon further constant plagues, i kind of suspected that most of the testimony would be pretty aggressively antagonistic, and i see that was right, and i thought maybe my experiences with the epa and some of my thoughts could bring some perspective to it all. So thats this is a good discussion to have. Most of us in this room are of the age to remember when the rivers were burning in our cities. We fixed them. Didnt break us. Our goal through this is to create a world for our grandchildren that they can thrive and prosper in, and its our responsibility. This isnt something to push off on our children. Its too late for our ancestors. So somehow we need to figure out how to Work Together to protect our environment and to allow our farmers to farm profitably. We can do that. But throwing the baby out with the bath water by eliminating all regulations is just irresponsible. So we need to we need to Work Together and think of how to do this. So ive already got robs ulcer acting up because im rambling away from the script but hell have to put up with that. My next thing i wanted to talk about was wotus. When wotus was introduced, it created a vicious backlash and probably rightly so. It wasnt prepared right. It wasnt introduced right. And administrator jackson appointed me to a farmerrancher Advisory Committee to the epa, and then later on administrator mccarthy reappointed me to that. Its called, and ive got to read it off. Ive got a button and i cant even remember how to say it. Its the farm, ranch and Rural Communities federal add visitvi committee. Its actually a pretty good deal. We were never brought in to this discussion as wotus was developed or introduced and i wonder how a farmer relationship in there might have changed that and how it might have been perceived. Another grumbling point along that is the fact that in over a year weve not had a phone call or an email. So it really shouldnt matter what administrations in charge. I think the communication between Rural America and the epa would be a good thing. Why has that ceased to happen . So i need to hurry up or i wont cover the top parts. I was in in the 1990s, i worked for the clean water farms project. This is a winwin thing. This was epa 319 funds and i worked with farmers across the state of kansas improving their Water Quality. They get a stipend grant to help them towards that. We host tours on it to show their neighbors what they were doing. It was all just great. This is an example of how good things can happen once you do this. Another thing was the Farmers Unions carbon credit program. We were the nations leader in carb Carbon Sequestration. We had over 5 million acres enrolled in Carbon Sequestration practices and they got paid a stipend for that. These are good things. The Renewable Fuels standard. Ive got seven seconds to talk about it. Keep it. Its a good deal. [ laughter ] thank you. Well, thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you, senator, mora moran taking a picture of him as he just concludes that testimony. He can keep talking if you need to shoot him take three or four. Let me let me get started with mr. Secretary, you know, i noted that you gave positive remarks about the Renewable Fuels standard, the rfs in your testimony, and i would just note that just last week your boss, the governor of delaware, petitioned the epa to reduce the burdens of the renewable fuel standard on refineries in delaware and across the country. Your governor actually stated that the rfs, quote, will undoubtedly severely harm the state of delaware, the entire middle Atlantic Region and the national economy. And i ask unanimous consent to enter that governors petition from the governor of delaware into the record. Mr. Hansen, like many producers in the west, you have a great deal of experience in dealing with federal agency that administer grazing permits. Youve also worked for decades with the agencies, the university of wyoming, state experts, to develop and to maintain coordinated ecosystem monitoring. Youve seen the nepa process in action countless times. Can you describe for me the differences youve seen between the federal nepa processing and the state process, for things like range management improvements, economic environmental value in terms of the value of public lands . Thank you, mr. Chairman. When we were working with the state of wyoming for probably the Biggest Issue that we deal with is water development, and we are generally looking at about a sixmonth process to turn the permits around with the state of wyoming. Depending on which watershed im in, working with the blm, im guaranteed at least a year, probably two, occasionally more. The paperwork and time involved is just ridiculous and very burdensome. So, you know, in your discussion with fellow ranchers in wyoming, and youre more or less confident about the economic direction of ranching are you more or less confident in the economic direction of ranching and farming under this administration versus dealing with the Previous Administration . Yes. Very much so. Okay. What do you think has changed to make things better for ranching and farming in wyoming and in other states . Definitely have a cando attitude in the agencies. There is a desire to work with the people on the land. Again, back to what we had prior to the last administration. We had people that in the agencies that were reaching out and identifying the issues that we could get together on. Prior to that, it was a very negative environment and the morale in the agencies was horrible. We were losing good people right and left. I think the end of the answer to your previous question, you talked about how much time it takes to do some of this federal paperwork. You know, in 2008 when the epa provided an exemption to small farms and ranches from reporting animal waste and emissions, the agency determined that limiting the scope of reporting under those two laws would reduce the time burden on farms and ranchers required to report. This was their estimation to epa in 2008, 1,290,000 hours over a tenyear period. Now the d. C. Circuit court overturned that exemption, as you know, in april of 2017, forcing farmers and ranchers to report all of these things. So id say, mr. Hansen, maybe mr. Mill and duvall, the producers you represent, do they have the ability to spend this kind of time trying to comply with these laws . Mr. Chairman, the major problem no, we dont have the time, but we dont have the tools. There is no way to do it on a range livestock operation. Its impossible. Mr. Duvall . Yes, sir. You know, when we start thinking about reporting, and i expected this question would probably come up because it is a big question across farmland. There is an individual farmer concern that we have, but id like for the committee to think about two other concerns. One being Public Safety concerns. You know, if we asked 200,000 farmers to report to the National Response center, which is where they have to respond to, it will overwhelm them and draw resources away from actual emergencies. The second issue id like for you to think about is the National Security issue. Because as our farmers start reporting their animals and whats being emitted there, then were going to create a roadmap. Anybody can find any farm anywhere where our food system is produced. Those people that lurk around our world trying to do harm to our country and to our people will have access to our food supply. That is a very dangerous area to go into. Ill talk about the individual farmer. The individual farmer is will have to give up his personal information, where he lives, and that puts him exposes him to being harassed by activists all around. Dont think thats not happening because it does happen. Dr. Hill, anything youd like to add to this . As my friend from wyoming said, they dont have the tools to do that, and the names study was designed to help epa develop those factors, which that program was done back in the early 2000s. In the early 2,000s and still hasnt been completed. We would at least like to see those factors developed so that producers do have some way of estimating. It would only be estimates of what their emissions are, in case they do have to report it. The other thing is we dont consider farming and the emissions from a farm as an emergency. Thats an everyday process. And we ask ourselves who wants this information. In some cases its the advocates that dont want livestock production and they can misuse that information. In the case of prestige farm, trying to build a packing plant in iowa, they had reported back in earlier their emissions in 45 farms and the activists brought that information and made the people in the community believe that those 45 reports were violations and got the people so aroused that they eventually voted down allowing that packing plant to occur. Thank you very much. Senator carper . I would like to ask senator boker asked me to yield. Im happy to do that. Renewal fuel standards in delaware and parts of our country. The issue that is before us here is east coast refineries and lack of clarity. And that is the issue that our governor is raising. We actually need epa can help us resolve this. Weve asked them to help us do that and play a constructive role. My hope is that they will. Without objection. Thank you, senator barrasso and thank you for your generosity, senator carper. Come to washington, asking for help. 60,000 people live in this county in North Carolina. There are 2 million pigs being raised there to produce pork. And the waste from 2 million pigs, as you probably know, is equivalent to the waste of 20 Million People that they would produce. The primary pig waste is being disposed of is piping it in open air and spraying it out on to open fields. These residents came to washington, complaining about suffering from very serious medical problems, higher rates of asthma, eye infection and depression. I was so astonished by this, we dont have these in new jersey, that i went down to the county to see firsthand what was going on. I saw the pig waste being sprayed. I watched it with my own eyes, how was misting off the spray fields into the local community, carrying on to adjacent properties and the wretched smell everywhere we went around there in peoples communities and their homes is something i wont forget. I met with local residents in a large group and heard their stories, painful stories about how the Drinking Water in their wells had been poisoned by runoff and how they felt like prisoners in their own home. They couldnt run their air conditioners, couldnt open their windows. And so while i agree its important to make sure farmers dont have regulations and red tape, something has to be done about horrible conditions i saw that nobody would want their families to live in thats harming farmers and local communities they live in. I really want to be clear here. I do not think it should be contract farmers who, too, are living in challenging conditions, often making very low wages at really rough margins. Some of those hardworking people i met, they should not have to solve this problem. Its the big, huge, integrators who make billions of dollars in profits, one of the Biggest Companies down there is a chineseown ed can company that in many ways, with the pork being shipped to their company, theyre outsourcing these problems to us while taking the benefit of our pork. And so, mr. Hill, my time is shofrt. But this is one of the more painful things ive seen as an american. And its a long answer to the question, im sure. Just to respect my limited time, could you please provide to me a written response for the record about what steps your industry is taking to reduce the harmful impact of what i saw and what theyre having on people. Can you provide that answer for me in writing, sir . Possibly we can do that. You know, we have the largest population of swine in iowa and weve used new technology to apply manure. We dont see that as sir, just for my own time, i apologize. I dont mean to interrupt you. I have other questions. Could you respond in writing . What i saw there, no human being should have to live in those conditions. Property values around those cafos have gone way down. People have been on that soil since the 1800s. Please just respond to me in writing. I have other questions i would like to ask you, mr. Hill. Some of these family farmers are right behind you, incredible americans who ive come to have reverence and respect for. They have expressed a different problem, pork check i dont have program. They often feel it doesnt work to their interest but are required to pay into. The federal court found payments of millions of dollars of checkoff funds from the pork board to your organization, Pork Producers Council were improper and said they must stop. Senator lee, republican senator from utah and i, have introduced a bipartisan bill that would make reforms to the checkoff program. Do you agree it would be beneficial to make those programs more transparent so that family farmers, like the folks behind you, who are doing so much of the real work in america, can quickly see the budgets and expenditures proofbed by theproofb approved by the usda . Theres a fundamental fairness for, again, these small family farmers struggling so much. Do you agree that checkoff funds should only be used in ways that benefit all farmers paying into them, especially and including small family farmers here today . And they are. They are being used to the benefit of everybody. We export now 26 of all of our pork. That increases the value of every pig about 50. In 1993, we were a net importer of pork. So, those funds are used for a lot of Different Things but part of it is used for developing customers outside of the United States, which our industry depends on, which helps every producer raising pigs. Sir, my time has expired mr. Chairman, but a judge has disagreed with the gentlemans answer and you can see from the heads shaking back and forth, no, there are a whole bunch of farmers across the country that are not getting the benefit and are feels mistreated by this program. Thank you, senator becomer. Thank y thank you, mr. Chairman. Having chaired this committee for a number of years its not difficult to understand, come to the conclusion that these costly and outrageous rules are about one thing and one thing only and thats control. Ive looked at some of the regulations this administration has done away with. And jumping up from 1. 5 a year to over 3 a year. And good things are happening. One of the regulations that i was doing, trying to do away with this was a year ago, the first one that this president was successful in doing away with, with the congressional review process was a rule that was put in by the Previous Administration that said that if youre a domestic oil and gas company and youre competing with china or someone else, you have to give them all the play book youre using. Actually putting them at a disadvantage over our option overseas. Now, it was easy to draw up a cra and pass it. It did pass. We had a signing ceremony. You know, the fact that we have all these regulations out there, its really pretty outrageous. Mr. Duvall, you mentioned in your opening statement, you talked about the wotus bill. I wasnt around my state of oklahoma before you took a position and most of other organizations took the same position that were representing farmers. In my area of western oklahoma, its very errant. Those people out there have all the regulations put in by the Previous Administration. That was the number one regulation. And it ended up being the number one regulation also from the American Farm bureau and other regulations. I would just ask you if theres anything that you didnt say about that particular regulation that would either be costly, how would it be costly or inconvenient and have a negative effect. Yes, sir. If you start looking at some of the conservation practices we put on the ground to protect our soil and where the on our farms and you start transitioning land from one use to another, not commercialed agriculture, but one agriculture practice to another, there are many procedures in certain areas of the country or the country has to go through to get that to be tieable to do that. Are you familiar with the panhandle of oklahoma . Not commonly. Their concern was after a rain that could all of a sudden be considered to be a wetland and all of a sudden you lose the state jurisdiction and the federal jurisdiction takes over, was that one of the you see that consistently around the country . I see it consistently. And also i see a variance of determination between agencies of what really is a wet land, whats not. Thats exactly right. Its unclear to farmers how they can perceive what their land really i appreciate that very much. Because that certainly is true. Mr. Hanson, im going to do this real quickly here. You probably are familiar with what we tried to do with the esa. We had seven states im sorry, five states, oklahoma, texas, kansas, new mexico and colorado. They got together and they determined what they could do and what kind of reform they could have. Everyone agreed it was near perfect. Everyone deciding at home what the solution was. Now, do you have any you sometimes wonder if we go through all that trouble in the private sector, land owners and the land owners we know are the ones who are most concerned about the endangered species. What is it you look at others doing that and the government doesnt seem to put much weight behind that. Im talking about local suggestions, local programs that are working. Ever thought about that, mr. Hanson . All the time, senator. Working to try to find a solution to an issue identified on the land. The fish and Wildlife Service was privy to all the conversations, all the negotiations. They knew what was coming. They agreed to it and pulled the rug out from under those officers. Thats exactly what happened. Fish and wildlife did agree and they also agree that the best stewards of the land are the land owners themselves. So, they need to be listened to also. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, senator. Senator carper. Im happy to yield to senator berkeley. And ill have some questions later on. Thank you very much, senator. Appreciate you all bringing your experiences here to capitol hill. One of the things that is important to my farmer back in oregon is the agricultural resource service. Administration had proposed significant cut, 360 million cut to ars and closing 17 ars laboratories across the country. Recognizing impact on our crop, diseases and importance of exploring the qualities of different plants that might work under different conditions. So, mr. Duvall, with your role, do you support the Agriculture Research service . By all means, senator. Its so important for our country to invest in research and development in agricultural business. And if you look around the world, being outspent in research and Development Dollars and that really is alarming to us and very concerning to us, that other part of the world are having the opportunity to catch up and go ahead in some areas. Research and development is a very key thing that we need to do to help our farmers stay on the cutting edge of being competitive. Im not sure what the next trump budget will look like. Well have it soon. Itf it pros proe opposes cuts again i hope well have your support. I second a piece that is important to a number of my farmers and ranchers, Conservation Programs, stewardship program, Environmental Quality program or equip. This weekend i was out visiting the 16 little towns in northeast oregon. And in one of the towns, i met with a rancher, also a local county commissioner. He said his ranching operation would have gone down if it wasnt for the Conservation Program that helped provide support and resources to make the balance, if you will, the books balance. I hadnt heard it put quite in those terms, making the difference between making it or not making it. In general, as farm bureau supporting these Conservation Programs . Yes, sir. You also hit on another topic very important to us. If were going to be required by regulation to do certain things and, of course, as farmers, we want to be able to have a partnership to help us do the right thing. Help us do the right thing. Were making huge investments ourselves in those same projects. Voluntary programs so i think its pretty much a win win for everyone. Its voluntary and cost sharin sharing. By the way he talked to me about his concern because we had a voluntary program that are hundreds of ranchers sign up for this in oregon. Im not really asking a question. Im just noting that theyre very concerned about the what the partnership that had been put together to try to avoid a listing might fall apart under some of the pressures from the Current Administration. I also wanted to ask about the agricultural workforce. Many of us hear from our wine makers, growers in almost every field the importance of farm workers and a whole lot of traditional workers that have been theyre not showing up under the current prevail iing commentary and role of farm workers. Does the farm bureau support work i working. It is the biggest limiting factor to farms to be productive, add to the economy their community and be able to create additional jobs. Whether it be on the farm or performing finished products of our commodities. Its a critical issue. It is the most restraining issue that we have outside of regulatio regulation. In a minute i want to give you an opportunity to respond to that. Response on the record will be helpful to hundreds of people. But there are thousands of people listen iing on televisio. I think youre trying to tell us it doesnt have to be that way. What were talking about with regard to circla, congress thought we thought we had recognized that certain farmers should be exclude from this reporting sbriermt the u. S. Court of appeals for the d. C. Circuit disagreed with this exemption. The decision has now been stayed. And farmers really dont know where they are. I noticed that mr. Scuze in his testimony said we need a legislative fix. I think probably dr. Hill and mr. Duvall, you would agree with that. We cannot keep putting farmers on notice, wondering when theyll be hit with legal liability or untimely or inaccurate reporting. So, maybe we have a bipartisan support and consensus that we need a legislative fix. Senator fisher and senator donnelly, republican and democrat, intend to introduce legislation this week. Fair agriculture reporting method that would clarify this rule to exempt all animal feeding operations from circla reporting and small reporting rierms. So if you could speak to that, dr. Hill and mr. Duvall. But also go ahead and finish your thought, which might give some reassurance to our friends in North Carolina that they dont have to experience what was described by my friends from new jersey. Thank you. In add equate tools and if theyre wrong theyre going to get huge penalties. That bill would be supported by us. Mr. Boker misrepresented the pork industry in North Carolina. I worked there in five years. Thats a gross misrepresentation of the farms in North Carolina. They do use Different Technology than we do in iowa. They have a growing crop year round. We do not. So they can use spray fields to apply main ly dewater the lagoons. Its not rahmanure that theyre putting on the bermuda grass. In iowa, almost all our manure today is incorporated in the 4 to 6, number one, to prevent runoff, number two to prevent smell. So, we feel like weve made tremendous progress in this manure application. And theres new technology for pit additives, polymers that reduce odor dramatically. That, along with cover crops. We have seen a tremendous increase in cover crops in iowa. Producers are trying to do everything they can to be good stewards. What would the farm bureau think about this legislation that i described from senator donnelly and senator fisher . Do we agree that what were talking about here is an unfortunate decision by the Circuit Court about a reporting requirement on these small operations . We do agree with that, senator, and applaud the senators that are getting involved in trying to fix something that is wrong. And be very difficult. My neighbor tooktomy left here has explained it very eloquently. I mean, it would put our farmers at risk. I have 400 mama cows. Just have a calf. Spread on 1500 acres in greensburg, georgia. How in the world am i going to monitor and report that . And i have four chicken houses. How am i to monitor emissions . No need to doing it and it was not intended the way we think it was. We would applaud it. Thank you very much. Senator duckworth . The Agriculture Committee is our backbone but also our heart. I witnessed firsthand when our farmers thrive, the entire state thrives. One policy of critical for our farmers is renewal standard, requiring it to be mixed with biofuels. Its helped cut our dependency on foreign oil and Greenhouse Gas emissions, critical to our efforts to combat Climate Change. It is also an important economic policy. In illinois alone, rfs supports more than 4,000 jobs and generates more than 5 billion in economic impact. Nationwide, it supports 86,000 jobs and has helped to generate 8. 7 billion in tax revenues that go to schools, roads, firefighters and the first responders. Mrs. Hughes, can you please share how its helping to provide rural and agriculture communities . Thank you. I would like to comment on the chairmans comment earlier about Governor Carney and his option to the renewable fuel standard. It deals with the purchase of the rens or the credits and the blending. That is something that needs to be addressed because of the speculation that has driven the cost of those up. That is something that needs to be addressed. When you look at renewable fuel standard and what its been able to do for Rural Communities, were producing 4. 6, 4. 8 billion bushels of corner every year. If we werent using 4. 5 billion bushels of that for the ethanol industry, improving our environment, the price of corn would be so far below production, we would not be able to produce corn in this country. And when you look at the and there were those arguing to set the renewable fuel standard aside because of the fear that there would not be enough corn, livestock producers, i traveled across the United States. Livestock producers in every state i visited said please do not let epa set that fuel standard aside. We need it to feed our livestock, darery, pork industry or beef industry. You look at a more Cost Effective feed, look at the money and senator moran said it, like you just did, the health of the Rural Communities is depending on the health and wellbeing of our farmers and ranchers in this country and renewable fuel standard has done that. Its created jobs, improving environment and giving our producers another outlet for the crops they produce to help keep those Rural Communities viable. So it could negatively impact farm prices and farm income . Yes. It could have and would have a large, negative impact on the price that our producers are receiving for their corn that they produce. We now have stations across the United States that are now putting in blend pumps so producers or consumers have a choice. They can get e15. In many cases now, there are stations that are providing e85. I think thats the direction we need to go in with renewable energy, not something that not one that we have to pump out of the ground thats not renewable and, again, this one is helping our Rural Communities across the country and our livestock producers. Thank you. Ive been burning e85 since 2006. She burns nice and clean. 55 of my hometown has been experiencing drought conditions, whether you believe theyre associated with Climate Change or not, our farmers are concerned that growing seasons are changing and not necessarily for the better. As a farmer, leader in the Agricultural Community can you please share what types of tools farmers need to adapt to these changing climate conditions . Thank you, senator duckworth. In kansas, its very obvious we have a changing climate. And so, you know, i see farmers going out and shake my head. Coffee machine everybody gets their machines ready and want to be the first ones out in the field. In my own operation i was an organic farmer for 13 years. I finally gave that up because of the changing weather patterns. I couldnt slip in between weather events and get the groundworked up and replanted so i had to change my operation to match the weather pattern. I wished i was still organic. Farmers are planning more and more on catastrophic events. I heard governor of iowa a few years back talking about it was the goal of iowa to deal with Climate Change by tiling the entire state. I dont have to worry about floods but i do have to worry about maintaining my stream banks and dealing with everchanging climate, especially with the livestock. Thank you. My time has expired. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I am very excited youre holding this hearing today. Im a rancher. And so i appreciate senator duckworths comments about ranching and farming communities as the backbone and heart of the state because thats true in nebraska as well. So, thank you, senator. And what a great panel we have. Farmers union, farm bureau. I loved your comments on rfs, e15. I have legislation on that. So thats great. I appreciated, dr. Hyo that you had the opportunity to respond when senator wicker asked comments earlier from senator booker. My husband and i do have a cattle ranch. Our sons are fourth generation sand hills ranchers. We understand conservation. Our neighbors in the sand hills do. Ag producers across the state of nebraska, and farmers and ranchers all across the United States understand it. We take care of the land. We want clean air, clean water and we manage our livelihood, our lives to make sure that and that we continue to preserve it for future generations. Im going to talk to another rancher now. Mr. Hanson, thank you for being here. I would like to build off senator barrassos comments a little bit, if we can. When you. Circa reports are directed to the National Response center and thats operated by the United States coast guard. Theyre used to facilitate a response to animal waste odors. To me this doesnt really make a lot of sense. Not only is there no added value but the abundance of farm reports is going to jam up the response personnel at the National Response center and prevent them from responding, i think, to true emergencies. Can you please describe what Cattle Producers would have to do to comply with all these reporting requirements . Thank you, senator. We have no tool. We have no tools to do that. So, i cant answer the question. Im sorry. You cant fill out the report. Exactly. Dr. Hill and mr. Duvall, you were talking about privacy concerns with these reports and also concerns with activists coming on to personal private property. Do you have anything to add to comments on any of that . Our farmers and ranchers are in a difficult economy right now. We dont need to put a burden on them. Its a huge liability issue. Farmers and ranchers arent doing anything wrong out there. When you give them a tool, as far as reporting there i would answer the same. We have no way of measuring that. And we would have to hire some expert in the government could disagree with the expert and make us hire a different one and spend thousands and thousands of dollars that we cant afford to do in a very bad economy, even when its good, we couldnt afford it. Thank you. Mr. Hansen, you also mention in your written testimony the compliance challenges producers face as a result of the spill prevention, control and Counter Measure of the spcc rule on farm fuel storage. While the act did include a provision that i championed that would provide more flexibility, this overreach continues to weigh heavily on the minds of farmers and rarchlers in nebraska and across our country. What do you believe must be done so that we can alleviate that burden of that spcc rule for our farmers and ranchers on the fuel storage . I would have to say we need to exempt the people out on the ground. Its such a different situation, the risk is minimal compared to what the act is designed to address. Right. There was a study done we had requested of this committee. I would point out that one of the areas studied was leakage with jet fuel. I dont know too many farms and ranches that have jet fuel there. So i think when you have a flawed study, it leads to flawed policy and flawed decision making. So i would hope that we could move ahead, not just on the circa rule but spcc and in other number of rules that are out there that people on the land, every day producers find such a disadvantage in trying to fight government every single day. Thank you. Thank you, senator fisher. Senator kacarper . I asked mr. Duvall where did you get a name like zippy . I think this is worth repeating, very quickly. Mr. Duvall, also known as zippy. I dont know many zippies. Senator this is the first time ive ever been asked that. Probably in a congressional hearing. I will tell you that. We could put you under oath if necessary. Well, by my fathers words, he said i was my mothers first csection, second child. He was wanting a big family so he could get all his farm work done. And it disappointed him. The nurses said thats a piece of cake. Well put a zipper in her stomach i got nickname zipper and it got moved over to zippy. Does not seem to have impeded your progress in life, mr. President. I want to clarify what you said earlier in the past year, i understand you said the Agriculture Committee has not yet heard from this administration. Is that what you said . Hearing from the Previous Administration, i think, with respect to the agriculture Advisory Committee. And i think you also said that you have not heard yet by phone, by email or whatever from the Current Administration. Did i hear you correctly . Yes. She appointed me right before she left that position with the intention of having some continuation from the previous Advisory Group to the next Advisory Group and so i would have liked to have thought that if there was any action going on, i would have known about it and its been total silence. Thank you. Help us to understand, was it not the intention and the results of the Obama Administrations clean water rule to create certainty in the regulatory process . And i heard for years that farmers didnt understand they needed clarity in terms of whether we get in trouble, Developers Needed clarity, certainty, predictability or they would get into trouble with developing and raising crops that weren ways inconsistent with the clean water act. So we launched the waters of the u. S. We did a town hall meeting on a farm in delaware, you may recall. We had farmers there, developers there. We had folks from the epa, army corps of engineers. What was being asked. What was needed and where was certainty. It sounds like other places that everything was fine. We didnt have uncertainty before. Actually, i think we have a lot. And so it was an effort to try to deal with that. You were in the middle of all this as the acting secretary, act the deputy secretary and so forth. Your thoughts would be il loum na illuminating. Youre on the inside. Thank you, senator. We need to take a step back and look at why all of this happened. If memory serves we correctly, all of this resulted from a Supreme Court hearing with the epa in the chicago area where there was a wetland that they deemed that was waters of the u. S. That was not connected to any other waters. Then the epa attempted to define what were waters of the u. S. And the overreach of the epa in attempting to come to what constituted waters of the u. S. , i think thats when we started down the road to look at what does constitute waters of the u. S. . What do we need to put in place to protect certain waters that we have across the United States . And so the last administration attempted to bring that certainty, in fact, to the producers and to other areas of the United States to show what, in fact, was waters of the u. S. As the senator pointed out, there were hearings in the state of delaware, reached out to all of our communities that we thought would be impacted. But, unfortunately, i dont know, senator, that that happened in other areas of the United States. But this was an attempt by the Obama Administration to bring some clarity that was being demanded by all the sectors, not just the Agriculture Sector but other sectors as well as to what did constitute waters of the u. S. Thank you very much. My recollection was that as the waters of the u. S. Were rules were being developed, four years of extensive public outreach, hundreds of meetings with farmers, ranchers, developers, state and local leaders and others, including in our state. Review of some 1200 peer review scientific studies. Robust legal policy and economic analyses and consideration of over 1 million Public Comments without any effort to rebut the rule to pursue a different course. And 1 million comments. Im told that they were essentially all responded to. So i just want to put that out there for the record. Thank you for your clarification as well. And if i could, maybe one last question. This will be for the entire panel. Thank you all for coming in here i appreciate what you do with your lives in the real world, the rest of the world, with your families and all with and we appreciate you being here and sharing your insights with us. Regardless of what your first names are. Rather than being in as chairman, i like to look for win win and opportunities. He does, too. Rather than being in conflict with one another, i see many potential opportunities for win win outcomes with regard to environmental policy in farming and ranching communities. You talked about that today, each one of you have. For example, precision application fertilizer could reduce farmers ib input cost and Greenhouse Gas emissions. Often times there are when achieving these win win outcomes. We here in congress can help break down those barriers so we can all seize these opportunities. And maybe you could give us a good example of a win win opportunity waiting to be seized if we would just seize it and how you might help us achieve that. If i could, im just going to start off i was joking with him earlier. He had his hat on and everything. I was just one of my favorite cds, glenn campbells greatest hits. The first song there was rhinestone cowboy. You came in here today and i said theres a rhinestone cowboy. Actually, youre the real deal. Would you just lead us off, please . Were looking for an example of another win win opportunity. You cited a number of them in each of your opportunities. Number of opportunities, cleaner environment, cleaner air, clean water and actually a more profitable farming, coexist well. They dont exclude each other. Just another maybe example of where we can can do that, should do that and if you have an example of an area you think is fertile for us to explore and participate to help nurture, we would be happy to do that. If anybody wants to jump in. Zippy you look like youre ready to say that. Yes. Theres a lot of situations where we have regulations that are overlapping. Were looking into things twice. If we could simplify it and do it efficiently. For example, over 40 years has had the responsibility of doing approval of pesticides. Theres no reason for the clean water act to be involved in it and ask them to make the same judgment that has been done for 40 years. Thats just one example. Farmers and ranchers want to do the right thing. In the past we used to go to our Extension Service or fsa to ask for advice and get help and look for a partner for us to do the right thing on the farm. Were scared of our federal agencies now. Were actually fearful of them because we know that they could cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to arrange meeting, hiring consultants and lawyers. We want to be a partner with our federal government and have agencies that are friendly to us. Were hoping we can work with them and we need to you make that happen. Others . Please. Nutrient Reduction Program we have in iowa that is supported by our governor, our past governor and our Current Governor and also by our secretary agriculture. Its a voluntary cooperative project. It was just funded by the state legislature for over a tenyear period for over 300 million. Its projects that producers work in conjunction with state regulatory agencies to put processes in place, to reduce runoff, reduce contamination of water and i think its the right way to go, cooperative voluntary program rather than somebody from washington coming down and saying, this is what you have to do. Producers respond to it a heck of a lot better. Thank you for that. Ill say to secretary hughes, reminds you what weve done in delaware. Would you apply that for us, michael . Senator, there are a lot of different examples. What we did in delaware when you created as then governor, Nutrient Management Commission and the great things weve been able to do to help clean up our waters that ultimately discharged into the chesapeake. I mean, theres a great example of everyone working together to make that happen. And the latest Chesapeake Bay model, i think youll be pleased to know, will show that delaware has had tremendous improvements in a very short period of time. You know, we look at we heard, you know, about the act for those that are endangered species. Im here to tell you that, yes, there are some things that could be done differently. But in my home state of delaware, your home state of delaware, governor, pretty much every day now, im seeing bald eagles. Something that when i was a child, we never, ever saw today. You look at some of the other things that are occurring bald eaglors Philadelphia Eagles . I couldnt resist. I could not resist. Excuse me. Good catch, senator. I said bald eagles. I meant Philadelphia Eagles. You know, you look at by working together. We all know, all of us at this table understand there are serious issues with honey bees across the United States and with usda, epa and state partners working together to help find a solution to those problems in areas, we are making a difference. The monarch butterfly, were seeing rapid declines of the monarch butterfly. Now we have states working with our federal partners to plant, you know, milk weed along some of our highways, to make sure that, you know, we have the proper has been at a tibitat fo. And i know theres legislation youre working on here to renew that. Pesticides registration act that helps companies do the research for our producers to help them do a better job and get better products to our producers. Theres no doubt, senator, there can be a better job in many of these areas. When were looking at regulation, we need to Work Together with all of those that are ultimately impacted and listening and finding a solution. And in that way, we can eliminate, in my opinion, some of the problems that we have had over past administrations with the implementation of regulation. Let me ask the other panelists, if you approve that message, would you raise your hand . Let the record show the other four panelists raised their hands. Mr. Teske, please, same question. Thank you, senator. Theres two things i would like to discuss. And both of them are in regards to mitigating and adapting to Climate Change, which im passionate about. Number one is whatever we do, as we move forward to mitigate climate problems, a huge part of that is going to have to be agriculture environment. Were the stewards of the land. Were the stewards of the carbon sink. So if another if cap and trade ever comes to be and we can reimplement a Carbon Trading program thats a win win all the way around. Sequestrian carbon, making better soils. Doing the right thing. Thats just logical. And the model is there. It can be very successful. It can make significant differences quickly. It aint gonna be the only solution to the problem but were a key part of it. And the other one is the further evolution of the Renewable Fuels, renewable fuel standards. If we can grow beyond the status of corn ethanol into perennial crops and crops that use less moisture, less nutrients, we could see dramatic differences in our future with Renewable Fuels. I think theres potential on win wins and both. I kid him. I go to wyoming about every other week. Little town south of dover. But we have little state. Lot of people want to come to our beaches. Fivestar beaches and lot of people will come, which is good. Tourism is real important for us. It drives development. And we have to be careful. We dont overdevelop our states. One thing i worked on when i was governor and before that, mike castle, when you work with government how do we encourage farmers to stay on the land . One of the best way to encourage farmers to stay on the land instead of Development Taking over is for farmers to be able to make money and be profitable. You mentioned a couple of things that will actually help to do that. I think we need to be mindful of that. Theres actually a lot we agree on. And a colleague from wyoming, senator enze, likes to talk about the 80 20 rule. He said the 80 20 rule, why ted kennedy got so much done on health education, labor pension committee. One a conservative republican, the other a liberal democrat. He introduced me to the 80 20. Ted and i agree on 80 of the stuff, disagree on 20 of the stuff and we decided to focus on the 80 where we agree, set the other 20 aside for another day. Thats the 80 20 rule out of the mouth of former mayor of gillette wyoming. Its a good rule for this committee and the congress as a whole. Its been a wonderful hearing. Thank you all. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you, senator carper. Mr. Hansen, you looked like you were trying to Say Something to answer to one of the responses. I would like to address senator carpers question. Im very dedicated about what i do but i cant hear a thing. When it comes to working together, the field is ripe with opportunity in the west on federal lands and our operation, weve proven that there is Common Ground and theres a lot of Common Ground. We always run into the headache of the federal regulation. Nema is a huge one. We get tied up in the paperwork, the decisionmaking process on something that should be really simple to do. So, expanded authority on categorical exclusions, if we could get to a lot of the red tape pulled out of the way, the unnecessary questions and timetables, we would really assist us in improving things on the land. And every time we do something good on the land, it affects everything. Our operation is increased, our elk population, antelope population and our livestocks, creating a more profitable operation. Thank you. That was worth waiting for. Thank you very much. When i asked three of you earlier about the time it would take to try to do some of this paperwork requirements, you had said, mr. Hansen, you didnt have the tools and the time and dr. Hill as well. You raised the issue about trying to report. And senator fischer did as well, to this National Response center on the release. Its the coast fward of all things. They have expressed concern that this dramatic increase in reporting is going to overwhelm the capacity to deal with this. Theyre saying they estimate the volume of calls they get now, the nrc would increase from 100 calls a day to over 1,000, hindering their own ability to respond to real emergencies. Thats the additional side of this. That sometimes government comes up with ideals and mandates making it harder for them to do the job that we would need for them to do. I do have one question for you, mr. Duvall. It has to do with waters of the u. S. , the clean water act. The corps of engineers is the agency that makes the vast majority of determinations that identify waters that are regulated under the clean water act. According to testimony this Committee Heard during a hearing with the corps last year in april, the corps was not included fully in this whole process that we just had outlined here in terms of developing the 2015 rule. You talk about 1 hl people testifying and all those things. In fact, the corps stated that they did not believe that the rule and the preamble as ultimately finalized, they say, quote, were viable from a factual, scientific or legal basis. And the corps went on to say it would be incredibly difficult for the corps leaders, regulatory and legal staff, to advance and defend this rule. Thats the corps of engineers. They also testified that statements and characterizations that the wotus rule is a joint product by the epa and the corps. Joint product of the epa and corps is flat out false. My question to you is, given these statements by the corps of engineers, how much faith do we have in the Science Behind the current wotus rule as opposed by the Previous Administration . We have no faith in it. Because indifferent corps district districts. We can show you situation after situation where farmers have spent money with consultants and lawyers and was able to put in for a permit and for corps or regulatory person to say no, i dont agree with and send backu back to the drawing board to spend that money again and try to get them to agree with you and its all over the board. Theres no consistency. And i had the opportunity and the privilege to have lunch with mr. Pruitt the other day. He asked me, what did we need in a clean water act . Definition of navigitable waters. I said a farmer knows his land better than anybody else anywhere, especially people looking at it from a computer. We ought to be able to be right up out in that field that pickup and simply be able to identify what are navigitable waters and waters of the u. S. We could take a huge financial burden off our farmers, add to our communities and were not going to my land, every piece of it is like my house. I would not do anything to destroy or hurt my land or the water around it, because i want my great, great grandchildren to be able to be there. Thank you. Senator carper . Just a quickie. Mr. Chairman, a request to submit additional documents related to environmental regulatory impacts on farming and rarchling communities for the record. Without objection. And, again, to say to our friends, witnesses, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you all. Other members may submit questions for the record and we ask that you respond quickly. The record of this hearing will stay open the next two weeks. Thanks to all the witnesses for your time and testimony on this very important issue. Hearing is adjourned. News and polishes that impact you. Coming up thursday morning. With us will be shai akabas and the history of politics and the olympics with eric zilmer and w welbe sure to watch cspan thury morning and join the discussion. The British Digital culture, media and Sport Committee travels to the United States to host a daylong session on fake news. The event from George Washington university includes representatives from google, facebook and twitter. You can see it live, starting at 9 00 a. M. Cspan3. President trump delivers remarks in washington, d. C. The event hosted by the Fellowship Foundation and congressional Prayer Breakfast groups is live at 8 00 a. M. Eastern from the washington hilton hotel. And you can see it live on cspan2. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies. It is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Cspans 50 cal