Transcripts For CSPAN3 World War I U.S. Railroad Operations 20240714

Next historian , Rudolph Daniels talks about his book, the Great Railroad war United States Railway Operations during world war i. He argues that the ability to move troops, equipment and ammunition at an accelerated rate helped allied forces win wwi. The National World war i museum and memorial in kansas city, missouri hosted the event. Hello, welcome everyone to your National World war i museum and memorial. Im camille kulig, program specialist. And i am thrilled to have everyone joining us here this afternoon, whether you have braved the rain, congratulations you made it. Or whether you are warm at home watching through our livestream. Today, we have the pleasure of hosting dr. Rudy daniels , who is going to present his lecture, the Great Railroad war United States Railway Operations during wwi. Today, we also have the pleasure of being joined by one of the museum and memorials esteemed board members, dave ebbrecht. And he is going to speak more about his ample experiences with railways in the midwest and his connection to the museum and memorial. Without further ado, please help me in welcoming dave ebbrecht. [applause] dave ok, thank you very much, camille. It is a pleasure to join you today. We have a great guest in dr. Rudy daniels, who is going to join us. And i have been with the Railroad Industry for about 23 years now. I initially started with csx. And i have quite an experience with the military, too. I went to west point in 1988. And was in the military for about nine years as a helicopter commander. And then joined csx and was there for five years. Then i came to Kansas City Southern, where i was there for 14 years and was able to make it up to the rank of chief operating officer. And so i had a wide variety of experiences, both in the u. S. , in the midwest and in mexico. And from there to the panama canal, where kcx runs. And for the last five years i have been working with a Genesee Wyoming railroad, ran about 31 of the railroads. They own 120 worldwide in australia, europe, and also the United States. So great experience running those railroads. Now i am out helping most of the Rail Industry on technology initiatives. One of the major things that a lot of people do not take into their thought process is that the railroads have been around for over 150 years. We were just talking about the Union Pacific driving the loan golden spike, celebrating 150 years. And when you think about how long the railroads have been around, and really how the u. S. Has grown up around railroads, and how Much Technology has come so far, the railroads have not changed very dramatically. Yes, we went from the steam engines to the diesel locomotives, but when you think about it, really the steel wheels and the rail is still the most efficient way to move freight that is out there. I think that the latest stat with the current freight operations is that we can move one ton of freight, on one gallon of gasoline of diesel for 500 miles. So you think about that, that is pretty impressive. Then you think about all of the roles that the railroads have played in a lot of the wars, even the civil war, one of the major objectives was to get behind the lines and get to your enemies rail structure. And they would basically rip up the rail, heat it, bend it around the trees in the civil war. Just to make sure that they could not resupply or get resources to the front lines easily. Those things in the United States, and development, every town west of the mississippi, every major city you see it primarily used to be a rail hub, and of built up around that. But the development of a lot of our history revolves around the railroads. And what you will hear about today is something that you do not usually hear about, the role of the rails in world war i. It had a dramatic impact, but you do not see a lot about it out there, so i am really looking forward to rudy daniels. In russian his phd and soviet studies from the Pennsylvania State university, and since then taught at colleges and universities in the u. S. And germany. He has written numerous articles and books, including trains across the continent, a complete history of the u. S. And canadian railroads. And of the Great Railroad war, which can be purchased in the store here. Most recently, he was a contributing editor to the Railway Atlas of the u. S. , and currently gives talks on a variety of aspects of railroad history. Dr. Se help me in welcoming rudy daniels. [applause] dr. Daniels ok, thank you very much. First of all, it is an honor to be here this afternoon at the National World war i museum and memorial in kansas city. Be invited ando to do this presentation. And as far as world war i, the railroads in world war i, as a historian i have written several other books on these subjects, but i feel like it is almost a privilege no, it is a privilege to have written this story, to bring it to light, something that has really not been in the consciousness of the american public. Quote thelly to french general in world war i, he said this is a railroad war. You need trains to get the young s. , women to port and then the trains again to get everything to the front. Not just as played critical, but a vital part in the american victory and in the victory of world war i. But we will start off with a couple of slides. This first one, it is almost controversial. You can see the soldiers, this from the chesapeake, Ohio Historical society. They said they have soldiers and barking for europe. And i kind of think this is stanton, virginia because of the bridge. I have been there. Csx today. They said, no, the soldiers are arriving from europe after the war. The Historical Society said they are soldiers leaving for war. It is because they have overseas hats. I know that during the war they had these, because the standard hat they originally took too much room. So if anybody has a source that can help me with that, i would be more than happy to hear what you have to say. Anyway, this is seen happened all over the country and we will see more of these types of scenes. The American Red Cross set up volunteers, mostly women, sometimes children, and they were at these station stops and they would bring refreshments. It would be sandwiches, coffee and winter, watermelon and ice cream and so forth in the summer. It would be seasonal and whatnot. The red cross operated almost 700 of these canteens during world war i. And of course they would be operated during world war ii also, but this is like the beginnings of it. So during world war i, the troops were segregated. Here you have africanamerican lso showing the red cross serving them with refreshments at various station stops. Courtesyo was of the red cross. We did not know where this depot was. This supposedly is washington, d. C. , where you have again volunteer women, the red cross women bringing refreshments to troops on the train. In a major metropolitan area. This is really controversial. This is a field kitchen on a flat car. The Pullman Company offered to build for the u. S. During world war i kitchen cars that could serve, they claim, up to 400 soldiers an hour on the train, but the army said, no, we will not buy the cars. We will just use baggage cars. It didnt work. The men were actually eating rations, there rations on the train. They could not feed them. That the soldiers life in world war i, as you see in the museum, was very difficult to say the least. Hear about how the u. S. Did not want to go into the war, but once you got into 9 into january of 1917, the mood of the nation changed. To age part of it was due man named george creel, who had a campaign in movie theaters in particular, to bolster people for the war. Andas soldiers and draftees National Guard were off to their camps for training, these were the scenes. This is from nebraska, a small town west of omaha. We see several things these s rura were common in both l and metropolitan areas. This is chicago and northwestern that served the town, you see the families, everybody getting together to send the soldiers off. And they traveled in coaches. The Pullman Company rearranged some luxuries we present at that time, the sleeping cars, into more spartan conditions so there would be more room for them men to have their supplies, bring their supplies with them. And here is yet another scene. You can see the name of the town clearly, people were anxious, they were putting luggage on the train. And the first months of the war, soldiers could take baggage and everything with them. Some of them took their pet. [laughter] dr. Daniels until it became a problem and the army said, no more, only take standard issue with you. Types ofe 12 locomotives that were standardized, the idea was to standardize them for efficiency. And also to be able to move locomotives from one part of the country today the other to the other, no matter what company had their label. Eventually, the government will rent the railroads from their original owners. But theed states, original company that purchased the locomotive could keep its name at the top in small letters. Ohio. S the chesapeake in so they could keep their own name there. A lot of the railroads did not like this. They did not want to purchase these locomotives. They were limited to 12 types. They were called heavy and light. The heavier pulled the heavy loads, the lighter ones were because they might have trestles or bridges they could not take the heavier weight. That could not take the heavier weight. They were anything from 5000 to 12,000 tons. So this is a sheet to show you the all locomotives, they had to follow all of these government specifications. And that is so the parts could be easily interchangeable. Before hand, a company would order a locomotive to its own specifications for particular needs and the government said, no, you cannot do that anymore. There were only three manufacturers, baldwin, New Philadelphia and american locomotive and lima in ohio. Ah, what is this . Look at these, this is a Narrow Gauge Railroad used in france. These were built primarily by baldwin. The contracts were issued to other companies when the defects became apparent. One of the big defects was there was a pipe that connected the two water tanks, these did not have a tender, so they had water tanks and the water would slosh. They had a pipe between them and they would tip over easily. Is i say tongueincheek, it interesting that the locomotive engineers, they were not recruited because they were short. Because when it tipped over, you had to be able to jump quickly out of the cabin and is somebody who is 53 can get out sooner than somebody who is 62. Not mean United States of america, it means United States army, these were army vehicles. Here you can see the code in this little bunker. Coal was in this little bunker. This was used near the front because they did not want the smoke and fire from the steam engines to leasing close to the front, as it would indicate a buildup of something. Everything had to be moved within 20 miles of the front because everything near the trenches was contaminated. The ground was contaminated from gas, poisons from the artillery shells, water had to be brought in, everything had to be brought in by train. And when you got close, a couple miles to the trenches, they would use these. Until then, they used these mechanicals, and before that they would use the steam locomotives. This is one of the gasoline mechanicals. By the way, as far as hiding any Troop Movement to the front for the germans, it was impossible, because these things made so much noise you could hear them 10 miles away. So i do not know if it did much good. Other general pursing pershing used these for his victory. This is a smaller version. These were usa, again United States army, smaller versions could move one or two cars. They were used to switch cars at a regulating station, which we will look at a station where the standard gauge met the narrow gauge. Again, these were narrow gauge. There has been a whole book written on the narrow gauge, particularly the men who operated them and i have a chapter in my book on how they were operated, the operations of them. This is one of the cars used by officers to go to the front. They also tipped over easily. You pushed them down the track and they went. You would stop them with a brake, one speed and one direction only, that is it. This is a close up. They had two sizes. Ere, that is lever h what made it go. That was it. And this is a typical narrow gauge boxcar. They could only fill it up about two thirds, may be close to three quarters, because they would tip over very easily. And they did not, they would lay down the tracks very quickly and to take them up quickly as the front moved back and forth. Because the germans had the same gauge track, by the way, and they used each others track whenever possible. Wounded, they were placed on the narrow gauge cars, the flat cars, set up so. Those who are critically wounded were moved by ambulance to a hospital, but these would be taken to a station 20 miles away, to then be put on a standard gauge hospital car. These are from the national archives. So just to show you some of the railway guns, we will look at another one in a moment. To see a railway gun. We use these gasoline mechanicals because in the mountains, the u. S. Had its own lumber operation where it used a narrow gauge to cut down trees. These were used for fence posts and so forth at the front. So this is critical. The french said, ok, you can use them and to your own lumber and effort. All done by the army. And this photo shows a lot of things. One question was, were there women at the front . No, because everyone was evacuated as trench warfare began and also billions were evacuated in the zone of the army, about 20 or so miles from the front lines. So everybody was evacuated, only the military could be there. These are the knights of columbus. I got this photo from the knights of columbus. All the men, the ymca that was there, they had to wear military uniforms and they were subject to military law. This is a little tram that was smaller than the narrow gauge. We will look at this again in a moment, in which they would move artillery shells, food and other supplies around the trench area. And the knights of columbus opened up these huts, they called them huts, at a boxcars where the soldiers could get free coffee, donuts, anything for free. Here they are tending to a wounded soldier, he is not critically wounded but he is placed on a tramp. They even had a turntable. And so that these cars could be moved in different directions. Amis is the Third Railway tr used in the war. Deceasedcan see the that would be placed on these trams to be assented to the regulating station, or we will talk about that in a moment or to be sent home. This is from russia. I got this from the National World war i museum here. A typical russian train, if you will, the locomotives dating from the 1890s. People traveled mostly in what we would call freight cars, if you will. This was under the control of the imperial side, the imperial side, the emperors side and so forth. This is a five foot gauge railroad in siberia. And here are people exiting, civilians exiting the trains. There was a great epidemic of typhus in russia. And some people mentioned more people died of typhus during world war i them bullets. I do not know how you measure that. This was under imperial control because of the imperial cigna on the train, people would be going to the eastern areas for medical treatment, or as much as they could get. The civilalso fleeing war, beginning at that time in russia. So this is not a real railroad photo, but i want to show this of the United States flag in russia. Will see who is there by invitation. And this is a regulating station. This is where the narrow gauge tracks meet the standard gauge tracks. And if you look, there is a sailor there. There is a sailor there. Who is this guy here . Walking here. And wait a minute, naval officers are there. This is why supplies are brought, a months worth of supplies at the regulating station, that is what it was called. You see the supplies in the back. And then by telephone they would call the regulating station, please send supplies, whatever they needed, ammunition, water, food, whatever was needed in the trenches. Then they would dispatch for 20 miles on the narrow gauge. But this is the meeting place. Lets look closer. Oh, here is that guy again. He is inspecting the train and with the army oops, there is navy here too. Car. Closely, usm on the this is about 450 miles from the coast. And we have usm. Maybe it is a good discussion question. Andhere again usm sailors. Hm, army. Look at this. The whole train, these were run as units, as we will see. There he is more closely. I think some of you know who this gentleman is. Yeah. And there is the big gun. There is the big gun. 14 inches. Bernard baroque, this is the guy who will solve the supplied problem and organize the economy successfully to fight world war i. To solvell call him in the logistical problems of supplies. This is the car in which, i really should not have this photo, but this is world war ii where hitler had the car taken out of a museum in paris and brought to the same place the pharmacist was signed armistice it was assigned. Later on, he will have the car brought to germany and destroyed. This is a replica of the car in which the arm assist the armistice was signed. I am proud of this. This is in the arms museum in france. And i took a chance. I had not used french for 40 years, so i wrote to them and i sent them an email. And i asked in french if i could purchase some photos of this car, a replica, to be used in presentations on world war i. I got a response within 12 hours and they give me six photos, saying any american who will write to us in french for the photos, you can have them for free. [laughter] dr. Daniels so i did. Areof the reasons for operations in russia was to czech legions. The numbers differ about them. We are probably saying 60,000. This is why the u. S. Got involved, to help evacuate these soldiers. That is because the president promised the creation of a country called czechoslovakia. War,pon the end of the that this new country would be created. Legion would be the fighting force. They were supposed to be brought to the french. The french side of the war to fight alongside and the americans, then have their own country. Of course, the war ended by the time they reached vladivostok. Cross thesupposed to u. S. And then go fight in france. The last of these troops, president wilson met and they stood in review. The American Red Cross took care of all transportation and took care of the wounded of these soldiers. These are my maps. And these were the principal americans, by the the United States army. And they are later to become known as the transportation corps. We set up port cities. Here we have some, this was probably the largest. Which we will share with the british. Then we would take these routes. The principle routes we would use. We had to supply the men in southern france, so we completely rebuild this line to leon, we completely rebuilt it, including putting a block signals, believe it or not. We will get to that. So the United States will completely rebuild the French Railway network during world war i. Also, too, we built our own telephone exchanges. So we had her own telephone that worked from the front, to paris and to the port cities. And this is where we operated trains in siberia. Men volunteered to work the trains and operate the trains all the way from vladivostok to unce, and that is greater than the distance across the United States. Then we sent the army they are, about 6000 of our troops, 2000 international troops, to keep the railway open, because this was the supply line to the eastern front. All, turkey as a nation had blocked off the black seat. Sea. And the ports were just beginning. With the main other supplies, but they had ice and other problems and whatnot. So the United States was in russia at the invitation of the russians. We were invited there. Chinesea here, the railway was built with United States steel. Harriman of the Union Pacific had a hand in that. And Great Northern had a lot of enterprises in eastern siberia. It is very similar to growing wheat in this part of the country, the climate. And we hit a number of enterprises in that area. So we were somewhat familiar. The chinese eastern was in original part of the transsiberian roadway during the war in 1905. The russians built their railroad entirely on their own territory, said they did not have to go through manchuria. The japanese were constantly trying to colonize this area, get this area during the war. Offwe saved staved them from that. Mywill go back to wahoo part of the program is the narrative. And that is the organizing and logistics, which was left to the railroads to move the troops. And it was due to George Hodges of the ohio railroad. Robintually had a round system of moving men from being drafted, or volunteers, two army camps for training, then moved them prior primarily to new jersey to be sent overseas. He worked out a really neat way on 30 day notice to move these men around. He even developed a secrecy code that all of the troop trains were called mains, the details would follow in code. The code was by the way used by the various Railroad Companies for years after the war, because it was so efficient. Freight was another problem. Freight was bottlenecked like you would not believe. This is what got me into world war i. Railroads moved things from point a to b, you hear it all the time. Ok. What was the problem of moving things . The bottlenecks got so bad, we are talking about the war going to the eastern seaboard to western europe, and it got so bad that every freight yard between new york and pittsburgh, and new york and buffalo was congested. Nothing could move. And the railroads had volunteered at the beginning of the war, the railroads 600 executives met in washington, d. C. To place their entire support into the war effort, but they could not get through these bottlenecks. Troops could move, because the railroads are moving themselves. Then we have to say, what was the problem . One of the problems, a huge one, was that supplies were being moved to warehouse is not yet built. So supplies were sent to hospitals not yet built. Theimply the army kept supplies in boxcars, in freight cars and so forth. So, this proved another problem, but how they did how did this occur . By the end of december 1917, both of the railroads and the United States government were talking about having the government take over and run the railroads. Lease the railroads from the class ones, the Major Companies like the trump lines, and that is what happened. They were able to lease them, take things on the freight cars, get them moving and get things moving because the army owned the supplies. What was the problem, why did this occur . Area of thee each army competed with the other in ordering supplies. The quartermaster, medical and engineering. And they all actually competed in getting the supplies first. Then on top of that, the manufacturers were paid once the thing was loaded on the train, not received. So the manufacturers wanted to loaded things on the trains and send it off as fast as possible, whether there was a place there or not. And really into the army later into the spring of 1918 to coordinate all the ordering, so you would not have this fiasco occur. And it was finally bernard baroque who actually designed a ind, to farm, to the trenches in france. So when the government leased to the railroads, they found out something else, all the changes that came about. Textbooks say that the progressive era ended with world war i, but in the u. S. Railroads, what about this . The government mandated equal pay for equal work, for women and for africanamericans. They also regulated the processing. They recognized the labor unions. So progressivism continued. Believe it or not, it was only later that the official legislation went through congress for this to occur. Ended before the government could lease all the railroads, so they still had railroads without leases functioning in this way. Ok, we are solving the problem in the United States. The yanks are coming by train and by boat. And then by train again. The french promised that they would take care of all of the transportation in france, but the demands for troops grew from 2ousands to one million, then million, then 4 million. And the network could not do it. So the u. S. Sent over observers and then sent over our army to build and rebuild the tracks. The initial order stood for this locomotives, steam locomotives. Consolidations 280, if you know the code. These were the largest team locomotives that could make the tighter curves on French Railroads and make also their platform clearances and so forth. We also requested over 9000 freight cars. We are going to send more locomotives and freight cars and mormon to france. How about this 4400 milesought over of standard gauge rail. Switches, 25,000 d 425,000opper wire, an acres that we used for our supplies. Copper wire, we will build our own Telephone Network there. We completely revamped french operations, made them more efficient. We would run through trains, the french never ran through trains, it was station to station, putting another engine on. But we would run through trains to are regulation stations. We actually built locomotive shops to repair and build our steam looking motives. We build our own storage facilities. And of course, the regulation stations. We operated troop trains, hospital trains and freight trains. The one thing, the one fly in the ointment as you know our standard gauge is four foot and 4. 5 inches, the french standard 11 16 was four foot, inches. We could use our standard gauge on the rails as long as we went slowly through switches. Tend toattend derail on switches. We ordered supplies from england. They want a smaller car trains, so we ordered from england and they were cheaper and they were made to the french standard, so that they for sure could get through these switches. ,lso, there is a huge mark one 14 inches, called the 14 caliber guns. These are from the battle class idaho mounted on a train. This thing had to be cemented in the ground and how they tried to turn it what was great was it shot a 1400 pound artillery shell 24 miles accurately. Accurately. And general pershing wanted this gun, because what he did the john merrill himself would say mself the general hin was a that this gun was responsible for winning the war. Because he did not name it at the trenches, but the supply storage areas of the germans. So they would be deprived of not just ammunition, but water, food and everything going to the trenches. General pershings goal was to get them out of the trenches and in open warfare, and this gun did it. It was specially designed on a special carriage that could only go five miles an hour. That was the train you saw before that the United States navy, it was a navy operated train, that used five of those guns. And very quickly, the french were skeptical. They said, we need to test this gun and fire this thing. They fired one shot into the french said, take it immediately to the front. Right now. Immediately to the front. [laughter] dr. Daniels it is interesting how they spotted these things. How the railroads played a critical role, not just in the United States but also operating in france. I want to mention, i want to emphasize the 60 centimeter Narrow Gauge Railroad was used by the austrians and germans. The reason being, the inventor built this speak, originally for farming. So you could lay down the tracks quickly, get your crops and take them to the nearest area. So it was really used in agriculture, but it was very easily used during world war i on both sides. They said you want to take up your trek quickly, because the other side can use it. Armed men marched into the rhineland area. We actually use the german narrow gauge to bring supplies to our men as they marched forward, as the germans retreated. To look at the final report in built, United States army 1300 miles of track. 1000 miles of railroad sightings. We brought over 1500 standard gauge locomotives. 25,000 freight cars. Over 600 miles of narrow gauge track. They were using was too light, so we brought our own track and so forth. Locomotives. Uge were getting new locomotives just before the war ended. 125,000 miles of wire that we used for communication. The remaining time in russia, the whole point but the french and english wanted to use our troops to destroy the bolshevik revolution which was occurring in russia at that time. Want t wilson did not he gave strict our roots he gave strict orders that the United States army was not to be involved in any side of the civil war, which caused tension with the british and friends, useuse they wanted to troops to destroy the bolsheviks. Up 14 stations along that at once. ,rimesters, yardmasters helping trains, getting them on their way. They modernize the transfer. Railroad in the timeframe. Variouse sure that the people did not destroy the train operation or interfere with the train operation in siberia. They did so very well. Unfortunately, they got caught war, the civil particularly the bolsheviks and their supporters. Japanese had soldiers a lott area and there was of progress between the japanese and the United States, because jed the japanese wanted to colonize that area. The United States being there prevented that from occurring. That is extremely important, because if the japanese were successful in colonizing the area, can you imagine the Food Supplies they would have to engage upon their expansion during world war ii . That would have been an incredible source of food and supplies. Our men got caught up in the help war, and they did evacuate. The idea of archangel was to so troopshe 60,000 or. Archangel, to bring them to france. The czech and Slovak League legion was becoming scattered along the path. Sometimes hundreds of miles. One source claims 1000 miles. Bolsheviks started shooting at our troops. This puzzled us at first. Here we are trying to help evacuate, help russia win the war and heavy are shooting at us. Petersburggot to st. They never got from archangel to make contact with the transit. Railroad. They were never able to get through all the way, so the on way they could evacuate was along that long route of the transit. Railroad. In doing so. Ssful many of the legion, almost all of the legion was evacuated. Until theoops there final evacuation. Is that it took until the 1960s, and due to court order, that our soldiers serving in our United States army in russia got veteran status. It took them that long and by court order. The United States government was unwilling to recognize them as veterans. The last part of this is, with the war over, what to do with the railroads. Change had been made, and everyone recognized we couldnt go back to the old ways. Was literally a freeform discussion. Many folks from the labor unions to the chamber of commerce to everyone including the head of the United States Railroad Administration all had suggestions what to do, what not to do. This. Ss held hearings on they put together what is called the transportation act of 1920. President wilson made it known to things on several occasions. He did not want the government to take over the railroads. Clear, the government was not to take over the railroads. The second thing he made very clear was that the railroads were to be given back to their owners, and he wanted this to be done by the end of his administration. Therefore, one of the final acts of the Wilson Administration was the return of the railroads to their owners. This begins an incredible , because thesco United States Railroad Administration ran the railroads without much regard to maintenance and without much , unlesso improvements it was pinpointed directly for military reason. Therefore, the railroads were handed back to their owners in disrepair and the owners had to, if you will, bring the railroads back into some kind of better working condition. To the expectations of the civilian population. What they did in the transportation act was incredible. His is popular at the time they made the railroads a National Public utility. They were privately owned, but heavily regulated. If you look at the history of the time, this was a time when privately owned electrical companies, privately owned , all your Public Utilities were coming under other city or state scrutiny, or regulatory legislation. That is what congress did. Through the interstate commerce commission, they regulated the railroads and tried to get them functioning as a national system. Which they just about did. Ownership, butte they created an idea of competition. They wanted the competition to remain alive, even though they were Public Utilities. Wanted competition to remain alive for improvements and there were many improvements made in the Railroad Industry. Changes made in the 1930s. This is the age of the great streamliners. The age of the famous city trains of the pacific, the southern bell, since we have some Kansas City Southern here. Most luxury in service and speed throughout the nation. This came out of the government leasing of the railroads. What occurred in world war i was. He meeting of each crisis never had the world seen a conflict so immense, so greedy for material and men. Nothing comes close to it. Think about the United States having to movement and material. Hannibal didnt have to do that with his soldiers. Off thecould not live land. Was a logistical effort up to its time in history. Error, thisd building of the railroads, gave the United States a blueprint. Hen world war ii occurred the railroads knew how to take the supplies. We knew not to purchase supplies coordinate. D to world war i prepared us for world war ii, even though it was the war to end all wars. The men and supplies go by train from home to camp, from one camp to another camp, to their imprecation overseas. When they got to france, they rowed by train. From their narrow gauge to the trenches. They were supplied by a tramway that went through the third trench area. In world war i for the United States, victory road the rails. Thank you. [applause] had to either microphone and ask your question. If you are unable, i am happy to head to you. By the way, this is my favorite part of the program. I enjoy this. I hope i can answer your questions. Thank you. I was working on a thesis on 19th century rail subjects and i noticed you mentioned, at the beginning of world war i, United States had a backup of freight and at one point, they seize control of the railroads and had to work out the problems they had. Im wondering, and this is my question to you, the lessons from the civil war and what mcallen and the United States all of that knowledge and experience they had documented, was that forgotten by the u. S. Government by the time of world war i . It is a good question. Actually, it was not forgotten. Point, theat west butl war was a major study, world war i as it was raging was not. Idea of the military of world war i was a train, not a railroad. They simply ran out of railroads. They were not a railroad company. Specifically, almost none of those ideas were applicable during world war i . You had your volume. Just incredible volume. Coast,ce on the east other than the idea of Rapid Movement of troops by train, the Lessons Learned during the civil war were not applicable in this situation. That statement was actually made by the Railroad Companies in the army when they worked on this. If you know about the bottlenecks, since you mentioned that, one of the problems was that in the late you say you are interested in the 19th in a 19 century, the government had placed a number of regulations on the railroad, including the creation of the interstate congress commission. Commerce commission. I, the Railroad Board went to the attorney general and said, release us from these regulations and we can move our trains more efficiently. A lot of the regulations were pooling. Pulling the attorney general said no. Am not going to release you were going to enforce these laws. It is kind of a misnomer. The Railroad Board itself went to the government for the government to take over the railroads. That theo happened , heetary of the treasury was a railroad person to begin with, but with the hudson railroad. Said, were already talking about this. It is kind of like a marriage. I think it was circulating for a couple of weeks, they finally got together and the railroads found it, when the government was leasing the lines, they were relieved. They were actually relieved. The lessons of the civil war were not applicable here, other than the efficiency of moving a large number of troops by train. Good question. I noticed you mentioned a coupled gauges a couple different gauges. Some compatibility issues. Whether other compatibility he said the russians at five foot, but you didnt mention what the germans used . The germans had the same the 60ge centimeter. They use the same 60 centimeter. They had we called standard gauge otherwise. Understand that there were narrow gauges in all countries. The russian five foot gauge was the building of these railroads. It was at a five foot gauge. They had other Narrow Gauge Railroads in that basin, where they had mining operations. Gauge in thenarrow mining operations. I believe that railroad was never was originally a narrow gauge. 1911 that itwas in was brought into a five foot gauge. Gauges existed in all the countries. In germany also. England had Narrow Gauge Railroads in some agricultural areas and whatnot. Fourtandard gauge was feet, 8. 5 inches. Did said, by the way, i Everything Possible to find out why and the only answer is because they were french. [laughter] reading through sourcesench secondary and never got a good answer. I hope that answers your question. Standard gauge, but at the front, you used narrow gauge. Within the interior of the countries, they had different gauges. Including the russians. Question on our right. I have a question about taking horses on the railroads. My stepfather was connected with the railroad in france. He stayed after to help with the switches. That was his specialty and you mentioned that. He used to talk about 40 and 8. A car could hold 40 men and eight horses. I know because of war horses in some of those stories that they use them in world war i and even tried to use them in world war ii. My brother was in the cavalry. They gave him a horse. But by the time he went to europe, it changed to a tank. They did speak about moving horses by rails. That interested me how they would pack a car with men and horses. Rudolph lets go back. 40 and eight. The way the cars were built, the contain 40 could people or 8 horses. Not in the same car. Rudolph no. They would carry 40 people or it would carry eight horses. That is the origin. The horse was really made obsolete by world war i. They use them particularly as Draft Animals to pull artillery and so forth, or to move objects. The machines and the modern weapons of war used during world war i, the horse became basically useless as a war animal. Books, iin one of my put down that during the civil chapterctually end that by saying the iron horse has replaced horse of flesh. Meaning that the train, the soldierse was moving in large numbers. The horse had been a war animal since ancient times. Way back to the egyptians, horse was a weapon of war. In world war i, trench warfare, the horse was made obsolete other than a trapped animal. By the way, after the war, the french government made one of those 40 and eight cars a gift to all the 48 states at that time. To be displayed in a park or a place in memory of the great war. Sometimes if you look at 40 and eight French Railroad car, you can probably find it in some state park in the various states. I happened to come upon it by accident in arizona. I was walking in a park and said, wow, 40 and eight was a gift from france. Thank you very much. This will be our last question. War, you end of the mentioned that our rails were in a state of disrepair, so i was curious, how was the state of u. S. Rails compared to the state of european and eastern russian rails that the u. S. Had overhauled . The russians had greater difficulty. Lets start there. We did a lot to keep their trains moving, so we brought motives and 50,000 freight cars. Modern topoftheline. Their country was riddled with civil war. Great destruction until 1921, when the civil war was ended by the russiannd federated socialist republic was created. Officially in 1921. In germany, their internal narrow gauge network was intact. It is not like it was bombed out in world war ii. The French Network benefited greatly from our rebuilding the entire system, or the major lines that led to the northeast. We rebuilt them and we left the equipment there. We left locomotives, we left the rail for their use. In the United States, they had competition with the motorcar. By the 1930s, with the creation airplane, inhree spite of these competitions, the industry was able to get on its feet. As everything did in the 1920s. You had a great rise in the economy. They were able to build new comment and so on. The only thing is it did not expand miles of track, because cars and buses were taking over, so you had a decline in the miles of track in the United States. Otherwise, you had improvements in locomotives, diesel, electric comes on in the 1930s. More efficient locomotives in every way possible. I love steam locomotives. You did have improvements, about. To answer your question about the french, in world war ii, this stock in my mind when i was starting on world war i. Freightr ii, a train of was going to the front in france. , thatailed and its truck holds the wheels, were damaged. It was an americanstyle freight train. Upset,icer in charge was because they had to wait days to get the replacement truck and all that kind of thing, and where were they going to find a replacement . He was complaining and a frenchman said, this is not a problem. You have American Freight trucks from the last war behind our depot. Just get your men and get one of those and jack up the cars and put it under. That is what got me thinking, how did those trucks get there . And that was a whole story that really opened up the incredible achievement of the United States during world or one world war i and transportation of the railroads. That is why i say victory arrived by train. Thank you. [applause] as a reminder, rudys book is on sale in our store. If youre interested, please head on down. If you have additional questions, rudy will be available in our lobby. Thank you for coming. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] sunday on American History tv, we continue our coverage of the 75th anniversary of dday. At 1 00 p. M. Eastern, listen to the past american presidency traveled to normandys beaches to on of the fallen, starting with jimmy carter in 1978. He is followed by Ronald Reagan in 1984, bill clinton in 1994, george w. Bush in 2004, and barack obama in 2014. At 4 00 p. M. Eastern on real america, the 1944 film, the day to germany. We thought we could use as a prettyut we found it was badly destroyed by the germans themselves. They destroyed the docs, which we thought we could use, and it took them, if i recall, almost two months before we could bring the ship in. Announcer 1 at 6 30, a veteran reveals how he was diverted during constant artillery fire. Mustve of it was medic, but a few was mama. The cries of the wounded were sort of haunting, but they were andned out by the rifle machine gun fire coming in from the right. Announcer 1 at 8 00 p. M. , President Trump and first lady America Melania trump join the dday 70th Anniversary Ceremony at Normandy Center cemetery. Watch starting at 1 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan3. Announcer 2 the reviews are in for cspans the president spoke. It recently topped the New York Times new and noteworthy column. Kirkus reviews calls it a milepost in the everchanging publications of our president s. The president s makes a fast engrossing read. Graduations and fathers day fast approaching, it makes a great gift. Read about health noted president ial historians ranked the best and worst chief executives, from George Washington to barack obama. Explore the life of events that shaped our leaders, challenges they faced, and the legacies they left behind. Cspans the president s is now available as a hardcover or ebook today at cspan. Org t hepresident s. Anarchists, government surveillance and recovery from war. The politicalores and social climate in pursed world war i america in her book, savage peace. This was recorded at a borders bookstore in 2007. So savage peace is the story of the year 1919 and is effectively a biography of a year obviously is 1919. My quest as a writer is really to make history very accessible to mainstream america, to the academics as well as the general