Feeling that this was unfinished business. Lbj deserves all the credit that he later claimed for piloting, navigating, guiding the civil rights bill to passage in july of 1964 when he signs it. But i think kennedy deserves credit as the kennedyjohnson bill. It had cleared the house of representatives by the day jfk was killed. Jfk had made alliance not with democrats but with midwestern republicans. He had reached out to them, and they were supporting it, particularly in the senate. He had gone to others. I think it would have gotten through. Eventually, it might have taken until 1965, kennedy would have gotten the civil rights act. But full credit to Lyndon Johnson for doing it the way he did, but i dont think he could have done it with the same success without the death of jfk. Thank you so much for joining us. The book is two days in june. It is a terrific read. I learned so much about it. By the way, it is beautifully written which is an extra bonus for people who like to read books that have a little bit of prose to themselves. Youre watching American History tv. Every weekend on cspan3, explore our nations past. Cspan3, created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. Weeknights this month, were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan3. Tonight a look at programs from the Kansas City Public Library in kansas city, missouri. We begin with a talk about the length of hollywood artist mill sent patrick, discussing her book the lady from the black lagoon. Watch tonight beginning at 8 00 p. M. Eastern. Enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan3. Have you watched lectures in history lately . Every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv on cspan3, go inside a Different College classroom and hear about topics ranging from the american revolution, civil rights, and u. S. Residents on 9 11. With most College Campuses closed due to impact of the coronavirus, watch professors transfer teaching to a virtual setting to engage with their students. Gorbachev did most of the work in the soviet union, but reagan met him halfway. Reagan encouraged him. Reagan supported him. Freedom of the press, madison called it freedom of the use of the press, and it is indeed freedom to print things and publish things. It is not a freedom for what we refer to as the press. Every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern. Lectures in history is also available as a podcast. Find it where you listen to podcasts. U. S. Capital Historical Society chief historian William Chuck digiacomantonio discusses interactions between Thomas Jefferson and federalist members of the 7th congress, the first to have a new session in the capital of washington, d. C. He explains how political differences led them to politicize many aspects of daily life including food, socializing and science. The u. S. Capital Historical Society provided video of this event. Today is the inaugural scholar series, and we thought we would start with our very own chuck digiacomantonio. Chuck is really one of the nations finest scholars on the First Congress and that early period in the development of our country. We have been fortunate to have chuck as part of the uscs society team for five years. Prior to that, he was 27 years working on the First Congress program. And so he has put together a very imaginative presentation using primary sources, letters of the time where people wrote to one another about the science, the food, the culture, and the back and forth that made early days in washington. That being said, we invite you to stay with us for your questions and answers. Chuck will do his presentation, and i will work through the questions. And we have a couple of questions. We may be able to do a couple of questions during the presentation. But the majority of our questions will be at the conclusion of the presentation. So, please put your questions in, and ill try to work them through both at the end and as we move forward. Thank you very much, chuck, for the work youve done to put this together, and welcome to the platform. Welcome, everyone. Im really happy we can pull this off. Im going to, as jane said, tell a very imaginative story. So, just let your minds go. Its not a straightforward narrative. But were going to touch a lot of points. The point of departure for me came with the publication of my book, which ill show here. Some of you have seen it before. Its my book on george stature. The page you see is a picture of george stature. I edited a volume of his letters. And the point of departure for me was his attendance at the second session, the last session of the sixth congress. George stature was a member of congress through the confederation, last few years of the confederation period, the first six congresses under the federal government, under the u. S. Constitution. So, he comes to washington, d. C. When the federal government first moves here in november 1800. He arrives at the seat of government from maine with his fellow maine congressman wadsworth who was a portland merchant and revolutionary war veteran. This exposure to washington, d. C. Is their first exposure to rural slavery. Writing to his daughter a few days before the opening of that last session of the sixth congress, the first session to meet in washington, d. C. This is in late 1800. He writes, the ground as you approach georgetown is excellent for roads. Being red course gravel, but is in very bad repair by reason of many gullies and a great want of labor. Here was the precious effect of slavery, a soil impoverished by overtilling, scarcely subtled, retchedness and woah with here and there a land lord who speaks great pride of little money. He goes on, but the capital, what of the capital . Why, it is a high though magnificent pile, it is but one wing of the original design. The body and others yet only appear to the imagination from the view of foundation which is laid in stone and lime. You can see that in this illustration here. This is the capital that george stature and his roommate both appear at at the end of the century really. 1800 its november 1800 when they convene. They actually meet here. I show this because not many people get to see this image. This is obviously a blueprint of the main floor of the capital at that time when the Congress First moves in. The senate was down below where the Old Supreme Court chamber is below. The gallery is depicted here. The house of representatives is actually meeting where the library of congress was going to eventually be meeting. In the Third Session sorry, there is no Third Session. In the seventh congress, he decides hes the only congressman to be reelected as much as he was up to that point in congressional history. But he decides his family is better served by him serving as Supreme Court justice in massachusetts. Maine was part of massachusetts at that time. He gives up his seat in congress, and his old roommate is now representing maine or massachusetts rather with nathan reed. You see nathan reed on the right here. Nathan reed was a scientist from salem, massachusetts. He starts out as apothecary, but hes really interested in steam engines. He applies for patents from congress before hes elected there in 1800. He only serves one session. And he and thatcher and wadsworth reside in a boardinghouse. The seventh congress meets and thatcher is gone. Wadsworth finds other housing. And reeds roommate now is a guy reverend cutler. Hes from northern massachusetts. Hes kind of an every man. Hes a lawyer. Hes a merchant. Hes the subject of many of you might know him as the subject on the latest book on the development of the ohio country because hes one of the main lobbyists through the ohio company who promotes settlement to the ohio river valley. From now on, most of the letters, most of the voices, the primary voices youre going to hear from nathan reed and ma nasa cutler. They left their writings mostly up in salem, massachusetts. And theyre also besides being colleagues in terms of the documentary record they left behind, theyre colleagues spatially. They actual lynn habit tly inha boardinghouse room. Here i dont know if you can see my cursor. But its right here, and its where the library of congress, jefferson building, sits now. Those of you who know d. C. Know this is carol row. They occupied the southern most thats this one here on the far right. Its a boarding house run by jo sigh yas king. This is the way that cutler describes it to his daughter, betsy. This is the first session now of the 7th congress. So, this is the first entire congress that is calling washington, d. C. Home. And cutler writes about life on carol row and kings boardinghouse, it is situated east of the capital on the highest ground in the city. Mr. Reed, nathan reed, and myself have i think the pleasantest room in the house or indeed the whole city. It is the third story demacommag a view of the capitol, the river, and the city of alexandria. I can just imagine how beautiful that must have been. I must add i am exceedingly happy with mr. Reed. I would have made my choice among all members of congress for one to have lived in the same chamber with me. All things considered, i should have chosen mr. Reed. I am not much pleased with the capital. It is a huge pile built indeed with handsome stone, very heavy in appearance, not very pleasant within. They were literally looking out their window towards the capitol, this is what they would be seeing, the senate north chamber on the right side. The left, that odd structure, is called the oven. Some of you might have seen images of it before. None of them would have been contemporary. These are all reconstructed images because we dont know exactly what it looked like except from verbal descriptions. But theyre connected where the central part of the building is now, the rotunda area, by the walkways and stairways to the gallery leading up to the top of the oven. They stayed there through the 7th congress up through the first session of the 8th congress in 1804. So, from now on, as i said, ill be using the words of these three men, wadsworth, nathan reed, and cutler. Cutler and reed are roommates, remember. At some point ill be throwing in some words by william plumber, who was a senator from new hampshire. He came a year later to fill a vacated seat. He shows up in december 1802. So, again, all these things are spin offs of my book on thatcher. I was curious once thatcher leaves congress what happened afterwards, what happened to the federalist congressman from massachusetts, new hampshire, the other New England States primarily, who were left behind to carry on the federalist fight . I called this talk experiencing the feet. Its Christopher Hills famous book the experience oof defeat. It looks at how parliamentarians distinguished the war. I wanted to see how they dealt with defeat. And from that chronological episode, if you will, i teased out four themes. And they all cover its kind of like microhistory. I tease them out of their records of just three or four days, the first three or four days of 1802 during the first session of the congress. I began to realize what theyre talking about is basically the plit si zags of everything. Were talking about socialbility, food, science and historical memory. Those are the four themes im going to be teasing out of here. The first one, sociability. Well, the social life in washington probably then is now to some extent revolves around the white house. The white houses new occupant at this point was Thomas Jefferson. He had been inaugurated in march 1801. And we all know from jeffersons famous first inaugural where he says we are all federalists, we are all republicans. Hes trying to conciliate all parties. What he really meant was were all republicans. The federalists just dont know it yet. So, he decides i mean, hes not naive. He realizes the federalists need special treatment. So, one way he does this is to use one of the greatest informal resources at his disposal which is the white houses social life. Right away it sets up a contrast with his predecessors with the federalist republican court. This is a highly exaggerated mid19th century view of the artists imagination of what one of Martha Washingtons levies looked like. Jeffersons were more democratic. Ranks cutler to his soninlaw just a couple of days into the session. He writes, under the new order of things, there are no levies, nothing like this. But the members are invited to dine with the president. I include this also for information for people who havent seen this. This is the blueprint for jeffersons white house. And the dining room you can see in the upper left was where these events would have taken place. He continues, what, if strange, is that only federalists or only democrats are uninvited at the same time. The number in a day is generally 8 and when the federalists are invited, there is one of the heads of the departments which make nine. Mr. Reed and myself and wadsworth among others were honored with the early invitation. We received and entertained. Now, jefferson wanted to create this idea, and succeeded, of having a very informal white house. The best image i could think to illustrate this is one of these wonderful portraits by peter weidel, who is now artist and resident in georgetown. But he depicted jeffersons study here. Its the Southwest Corner of what is today the state dining room. And you can see its phillfilleh paraphernalia of scientific interest and studies. Jefferson hates conflict. Hes very much in conflict avoidance. No politics were to be discussed at his dinner table. My friend and colleague from mass historical wrote about this. By trying to diffuse the small conflicts that might erupt with members of both parties at the same table, he may have fostered a deeper division. One should note that jeffersons invitations to dinner were sent out under Thomas Jefferson, not president of the United States. The idea being that he wanted to create this image that it was more democratic. It was just a gathering of friends, not a political meeting in any way. But in fact, inviting people under his own name rather than in the name of his office of president was an excuse for him to invite who he wished. And that is why he ends up inviting just federalists all at a time or just democrats. Eventually as time goes by, we learn he uses his dinner invitations as a way to punish members, primarily federalists. We know this from the words of william plumber i told you about, the guy from new hampshire. Plumber quoting again, plumber decided that jefferson used good food and conversation the to divide them from one another. In his own words, i have myself no doubt of this being the true ground of his apresident doing the present form. In the last session there were gentleman who, though they called on him, were not invited to dine with him. And here plumber names some high flying federalests. It is true these gentleman reamed against some of the measures and made the arguments appear rather ridiculous. This manly conduct is styled by him abuse. It discovers a mind unworthy of the president of the United States. As president , he ought never to act towards an individual as if he knew what was said for or against him or his measures on the floor of the house. Plumber, i realize that jeffersons behavior at least in the way he dulled out dinner invitations to his white house. Politicization in food. Im sure some of you tuned in just to see what this meant. We pick up with cutlers journal. He writes although the president has no levies, a number of federalists agreed to go to the coaches of the president s house and weight upon him with the compliments of the season. We were received with politeness. The mammoth cheese presented this morning, the president invited us to go, quote to, the mammoth room and see the mammoth cheese. We viewed this monument of human weakness and folly as long as we pleased. And then we returned home. The cheese or the mammoth cheese as it was called, was a gift to jefferson from the largely Baptist Community of massachusetts to thank jefferson for his work promoting religious freedom. This would have been important to baptists who are a minority in most of the country at this point, certainly in new england. The cheese itself was four feet wide, 15 inches high, and weighed 1,230 pounds yochlt an image of the cheese. There is no contemporary image or any image that i know of the cheese, but we have one in a famous painting by weidel. This shows the big cheese given to andrew jackson. There is something of a tradition at this point of giving president s a cheese they can host with. This was the big cheese presented to jackson in 1835. And it was there for people to munch on for a couple of years. It looks ridiculous, i think, right . But this cheese is, in fact, at least to federalists thinking really a symbol of jeffersonianism. Its gauche. Its impractical. The idea is driven by folly. Its a case that the ideology doesnt play out in the reality. It doesnt help at all that the cheese the presented by the leader of the Baptist Community. Writing to his soninlaw a few days after the presentation of the mammoth cheese. Last sunday, the cheese monger, poor illiterate clownish preacher, to the place of his destination was introduced as the preacher to both houses of congress. The president , contrary to all former practice, made one of the audience. Such a performance i have never heard before and i hope never shall hear again. Horrid tones, frightful grimaces and extravagant gestures was never heard by any descent auditory before. This is the guy who presented the cheese. Whatever glamour the cheese added to the white house soon began to lose its luster. One year later on 1803, cutler writes again after we left the levy room as we were passing through the great hall, i happened to think of the mammoth cheese. And one of excuse me. And i happened to think of the mammoth cheese, and i asked one of the servants in waiting whether it was still in the mammoth room. Thats the east room today. He replied it was and i might see it if i pleased. I went with a member who happened to be wishing for another look at it. The president had just told us when we talked with him that 60 pounds had been taken out of the middle in consequence of the puffing up and symptoms of decay. So, in case youre wondering what happened to the mammoth cheese, the plumber writing about it two years later in december 1804 that at that point it was very far from being good. It was last seen a year later in 1805 and it was either at that point totally consumed or some scholars think it was dumped into the river. I want to talk about the word mammoth here when cutler wrote, quote, to the mammoth room, he was quoting jefferson verbatim. And he set it off in quotes because it was a novel use of the expression mammoth. Imagine by surprise. I went to the Oxford English dictionary, it credits Thomas Jefferson with coining the adjective mammoth. And certainly by the time the cheese arrives in washington, d. C. , people have picked up on this analogy. It was a word for something huge, weird, gauche, no practical purpose. Who needs a 1,200 pound cheese . Its not a perfectly politically neutral word either. In time this word would enjoy or suffer the widespread usage that the word, atomic, for example, would have in the 20th century. It means something. So, what are the origins of the adjective mammoth. The noun mammoth was a phenomenon that historians of science and social historians more and more began to recognize as one of Thomas Jeffersons hobby words. Thomas jefferson imagined himself among other things as a scientist just like benjamin franklin. You see scientists had to have furlined jackets of course. Jefferson for most of his public life is interested in science in a way that can refute the arguments made famously by a french philosopher, a natural philosopher, who insisted on a theory of american degeneracy. There was an argument published in his hefty volume book where he writes that fauna, particularly megafau ma found in the north american western hemisphere are essentially inferior to those found elsewhere in the world. They degenerate on this side of the globe. It became a patriotic article of faith that americans had mega fauna at least as mega as europe did. We see in his notes from 1785. He endorses an expedition beyond the mississippi in 1793 which specifically charges him under the head of animal history to make notes on the mammoth that he might find there. The mammoth is particularly recommended to your inquiry, he writes. And of course ten years later, he sends out lewis and clark with similar instructions on their famous expedition to the west. So, needless to say, jefferson is really excited when in the summer of 1801 Charles Wilson peel is told about mammoth bones in the Hudson River Valley near new berg. By the way, its not always called mammoth. Sometimes it appears as the word inc incognitum because they didnt know what it was. He hired a couple hundred men to dig out the remnants of the skeleton of this what theyre still calling a mammoth of incognitum. Jefferson is calling it a mammoth too. We know today, thanks to the work of an aanatomist, that the incognitum is not a maam mammo all but a new species that he named the mast don because of his teeth. Mastos like breasts, like mastectomy and teeth like bridges of breasts. Mammoths were found further out west. And lewis finds evidence of them in the ohio valley. The east coast valley becomes known as the mastedon. On christmas eve, 1801, peel actually erects it and the American Philosophical Society in philadelphia. As if it needed to be linked any closer to americas image of itself, the skeleton ends up in Independence Hall where peel opens his museum eventually. And we see it on the background on the right partially hidden by the drapery. In this famous painting selfportrait artist and museum from 1822. So, despite its obvious scientist significance, the federalists follow jeffersons lead in using it as a political signal. The search for the mammoth, like the mammoth cheese became known for political quacker ri. Thats a direct quote from one of nathan reeds letters. Within days in fact, reed and other jerson and other federalists are calling the Jefferson Administration the mammoth and company. And plumber, two years later, writes how the word is used in yet a different context but with the same intent. Plummet, two years later writes the baker of the navy erected an oven and having made flour into a loaf, he baked it and called it the mammoth loaf. This was laid and bore on the shoulders of men, carried to the capital joined in the senate chamber. A large sirloin of roasted beef and casts of wine. Cider and whiskey were deposited in the same place. At 12 00 the chamber was crowded with people from all corners of the United States to the meanest vilest virginia. Mr. Jefferson took his jackknife from his pocket and cut and ate from the beef and bread and drank from the liquors. He compared this to the lords supper. You can imagine what thats doing to new england federalists. The skeleton, meanwhile, took on a life all of its own. Today, the focus in kids books, for example, is on the search for scientific truth. While the mammoth cheese is recorded as the ingenuity of one small new England Village or a triumphant exploration of the joys of rural america, the debts we owe to history, our parents and ourselves. So, before i move on so, wheres pearls mastedeonte . Is it in the white house . No, its not in the white house. Im not sure it ever made it to washington. The mammoth cheese was in washington. But the mammoth, it ended up, as i say, in philadelphia. Eventually peel opens up his sons open up a museum in baltimore. And its there until the 1840s when they move it over to europe to try to sell it in europe. They thought they had a buyer in france, and then the revolution of 1848 kicks in. So, it ends up in germany, believe it or not. And i have a thats the picture i showed you earlier of the full mastedon skeleton there in germany in a museum in germany. Now, the neat thing about the subject of my talk and Everything Else thats going in washington is that the mastedon is now back you know what, jane . I have to swallow my words. The mastedon is here in washington. It was moved for the first time in 170 years to the smithsonian where it was erected in the museum of american art for an exhibit on alexander von humbolt and the United States. And they thought the skeleton represented the highest aspirations of American Science and european science meeting together. So, they actually brought it here. It was supposed to open this month. Obviously that didnt happen. Maybe the shutdown will end before we have to ship the mastedon back because it would be lovely to see. So, back to new years day in 1802. After taking an early dinner, eight of us set off for mount vernon says cutler in his journal for that day. Pilgrimage to mount vernon and the politicization of george wa washingtons memory is another major memory i want to touch on. The bigger story of memorializing George Washington at this time is told in the wonderful book about the efforts to bury washington in the capital building. So, they make it from gats bys tavern. They arrive in mount vernon the day after new years. So, cutler writes to his daughter again. A servant conducted us to madam washingtons room where we were received in a very obliging manner. Mrs. Washington a, we were all federalists which gave her great pleasure. Her remarks were frequently pointed and sometimes sarcastic on the new order of things and the present administration. She spoke of the election of mr. Jefferson who she considered as one of the most detestable of man kind as the greatest misfortune. Her unfriendly feelings towards him were naturally to be expected from the abuse he offered to general washington while living and to his memory since deceased. After breakfast, these federalist members from massachusetts rambled about until they arrived at the tomb of washington himself. Cutler picks up the story, this tomb contains the remains of the great washington. This precious washington was the first object. I will not attempt to describe our feelings or the solemn gloom as we approach the mountain of birth. The tomb opens nearly toward the river in an upright door. Overgrown with tall grass. Between the tomb and the bank and a narrow foot path much trodden, the pass is rounded. Here mrs. Washington in gloomy solitude. Here every visitor in slow and solemn steps approaches this mound. While all of us took the precious trees in the countrys best friend, i shall enclose a twig of the cyprus and a leaf of the holly. A few months later, wadsworth writes as hes going down to visit the same place and play homage to washington and his relics, he writes the same experience. We viewed the situation before dinner and the tomb of the great washington. There was awe in the very place. How displaceful to the United States to suffer these remains after having been solicited of and granted by the relic to remain unnoticed, condemned. Will not be almighty blasting gratitude of this country. This, oh jefferson, be thy glory. Pitiful revenge and glorious triumph. Congress, in fact, did have plans to honor George Washington. Most of us know of the existence of a tomb below the crypt level of the Capitol Building that was intended to hold washingtons remains. Martha gave permission before she died a few years later. It was a moot point. Jeffersonians resisted efforts in 1800 and periodically thereafter to have a mausoleum built to washington either near the capitol or somewhere else in washington. Bury him in the capitol was a moot point until that central portion of the capitol could be finish wrd the tomb eventually was created. But by then, it was the early 1830s and the washington family had changed their mind. And they left washington and the new tomb they had created for him at mount vernon. Thats where he will be found today. But long before then, jeffersonians had other ways of consigning washingtons memory to oblivion. A few months later on the friday before washingtons birthday in that year, 1802, the house was listening to one of these crazy debates on the judiciary bill. At the end of the debate, a federalist member rises to adjourn to tuesday, adjourning over monday. The idea was that it would give workers a chance to install ventilation in the oven. Thats that makeshift House Chamber that i showed you earlier. Its called the oven because it got quite stifling as you can imagine. But the federalists also wanted to remind members that it was washingtons birthday. He presumed so much respect to be paid to washingtons memory. Congress would do no business on that day. It was the intention of those that venerated the character to evoke the day in commemoration of the man. As soon as jeffersonian members found this out and realized what was happening, they decided, no, we needed to meet on monday. They didnt want any recognition being payed to the fact that it was washington birthday. Cutler writes have we lived to see the day, has it so soon arrived that the memory of washington should meet with marked contempt and so pointed by almost a ma jjority of the nationals. The federalists met. They had donor together at a local hotel. This is nathan reed writing to a friend that month. In the evening the vp of the United States aaron burr joined us and gave sentiment which should it become operative principle would prove fatal to him in his party. He requested it might not be published, however, and we have no wish to do it and we do not esteem ourselves much honored to the company. I had to throw in lesley ode m there. The last sunday of the sermon is the last sunday sermon given in congress. The house of representatives, some of the audience might know, is actually holding religious services in the House Chamber in the Capitol Building because its the largest Single Chamber in the young city. So, the last sunday sermon of that session that ive been focusing on is actually in may of 1802, a few months later. And we know about it through cutlers joernl where he says he attended the hall mr. Parkinson preached. William parkinson was the house chaplain but he had the same minds that john leland did, the cheese monger who preached a few months earlier. Nathan writes our chaplain who is an illiterate man preaches in the same style of leland. They disgrace the cause of religion and bring it into contempt. This was one vote the democrats had choosing this stamp. Regardless of the style, you have to admit hes a little tone deaf because he chose to preach as a subject of his sermon the biblical passage about lots leaving. Neither reed nor cutler seemed to mention that fact with any sense of sarcasm. So, two days later, cutler takes the packet with reed and 20 other members of congress for the head about at the top of chesapeake bay. And then by stage to new castle delaware. And then to philadelphia where he fits peels museum and sees the skeleton of the mammoth. And thats a drawing by rembrandt peel of the skeleton. It existed in the Baltimore Museum in the 1830s. So, this has been our sort of tour of the landscape of the very first been our tour of the landscape of the very first months of the First Congress, the first full congress to meet in washington, and how different aspects of society, food, science, social life, the way you memory lies and remember people, how does all politicized. The federalists are still hanging on, although the jeffersonians have created the first major regime change in national history. Thats the end of the top. Hopefully, maybe there is some questions that i can answer for people. We have a number of questions. We have one piece of good news for viewers, which is that there is an exhibition tour online with the curator of the smithsonian that you can see on line the skeleton of the mastodon. It is called art, nature and culture. That can be reached through the smithsonian website. I think we can figure out a way to send the link so that you can go and see what is going on at the smithsonian while they are under the work from home order like the rest of us. Its wonderful detour that she gives, by the way. Great. A couple of people indicated they know about it and that it is a fabulous tour. It is now available online. Heres the question that a couple of people asked. It seems like you have really gotten to know these people. Ive often heard doris goodwin, when shes presenting one of the books that she has written, whether it is lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt or franklin or whoever, she always talks about them as my people. That she feels sort of said to leave them when the book is finished. It sounds like you build a relationship with these individuals. So can you describe how does that work . How does it feel . How do you maintain the relationship with people who lived 200 years ago . Right. In some ways, its easier than relationships with people in our lives today. laughs the reality we know of them is the reality that comes out of the letters. Most people whose letters survived were important enough that they knew that their letters would be saved. Im not convinced all of them thought their letters would be saved like thatcher. That you had magnificent correspondent with his wife. She was his closest friend. We only have two of her letters though from the several hundred we know she wrote. The family just did not think her letters were worth keeping. Theres a big blank in my heart for his wife, sarah thatcher. George thatcher, like most members of the First Congress and like most members of the political figures in the republic, you cant help but fall in love with them. Theres a wonderful book, founding brothers, instead of founding fathers. Brothers with the idea being they are all equal fumbling around trying to figure out how to move ahead in life together. Trying to figure it out in realtime. For us to look back 200 years later and not knowing how the story was going to end, its a real treat. Its an honor to have access to these letters really. To be able to make sense of them. Sometimes you get so embedded in them that you forget that there is a post 1802. In this case, i made very few references to anything that happens after 1802 or 1803. My colleague on the First Congress project is famous for saying, if you ask him anything about anything after 1803, hes like that is star trek. That Science Fiction to me, i dont know what youre talking about. Because your real world ends win these letters and. The members sign it, yours dearest or whatever. Its a wonderful experience. Even amateur historians, antiquarians, people interested in genealogy and their family histories, first thing you should do is get your hand on the letters. Then provide some context to secondary literature and so on. Lets start with the letters, because it will provide the passion that is the fuel for historical research. One of the questions a couple of people asked is, is there anything in the letters the talks about how do they travel from washington d. C. To alexandria . Was that a difficult track at that time . Yes, there are no bridges of course. You dont have the traffic either, but it invariably involved very at this time. From colors telling a bit, if you left in the morning, if you left around noon time, you would be at gatsbys by the evening. So you had to allow a full overnight trip to mount vernon if you are going to make that pilgrimage. We know many of them did. As i said, towards the end of my top reverse, its mostly overland at first. That is until you get to the bay and then you might take to the water. Its a very interesting thing that comes out in the letters. Today when we write letters, we dont often write about how we get somewhere, because we assume the recipients have experienced the same thing. We dont need to tell them about it. When we find references to travel, its kind of a big deal. Its always enlightening because we are always surprised at how difficult it was. I think i could honestly say that, if most of the audience had to confront what these people confronted just in the course of getting to work if you are congressman, you probably wouldnt do it. You probably would just stay at home. George thatchers case, the distance from home was a deterrent to him coming back to congress. We know that for a fact. Hes always complaining about how far away from home he was. He was doing it when he was in new york and that was one third of the distance to washington, d. C. From maine. So you can imagine. Chuck, one of the other questions. Someone was asking about the religious surfaces. Where they held in House Chamber . Is that what they called the oven . Where were these Services Held . The references i found to it, they refer to it as the hall. A Congress Representative is using that expression, so i think hes referring to the oven which is bigger than the senate chamber. So im thinking that is where they were held. They were also, there was a congressional chaplain from the very first week of the very First Congress. They opened the religious services to to all different denominations. We saw, for example, leland. We know there were congregation lists and episcopalians. The people that were speaking during these religious observance is in the capital were not technically servants of the government. They were just utilizing a government space in a community and sense. This is the biggest room in the city so were going to use it. I am careful to say that it is government endorsing any particular religion or even the idea of religion to be honest with you. Just keep that in mind when you read about religious warship in the early capital building. How long did those Services Continue . They continued through jeffersons presidency. They did. I dont know. I dont know. Something for me to look into. I imagine that when other spaces became available, there were certainly churches being built. A catholic, first of all, it would never be seen outside of a church or sanctuary. We know catholics or doing it. There is a Catholic Church in georgetown. I cant remember when the first catholic parish in the city of washington starts, but its not long after this period that we are talking about. At some point, they do move out of the Capitol Building. I dont know window. One of the questions, we have a few folks who are still interested in this cheese. We have two questions, one might not be in your venue, but nevertheless, it was called the Cheshire Cheese because it came from cheshire. It was a Cheddar Cheese . Whats the relationship between Cheshire Cheese and Cheddar Cheese . I dont know. They both began at the same letter . There you go. First three letters. Thats the only connection i can think of. It was called the Cheshire Cheese which also makes the term mammoth cheese all the more pointed. Someone went through the trouble to call it mammoth cheese and to coin the term at this time. Its cheddar and it was also called Cheshire Cheese because it was from cheshire. Perhaps cheddar last longer . Maybe that is why they opted for cheddar. I dont know. Your friend who has been enjoying the top and sent you is greetings. He has an important question. He said, is that where they came up with the idea of calling the president the big cheese as a way to tease him . Dick, you would ask that. Honestly, i dont know where that expression started, but im probably not the only one whos going to go right to google as soon as this is over and find out the origins of that expression. Maybe it is. It would make sense. Im not sure jefferson would not appreciated to be honest. One of the people asks, where the religious Services Open to the general public or where they just for members of congress . No, this is the point. It was the general public. It was a Public Service to the community. To have them in the capital. It was intended as a Public Service. The community was invited. One of the other things you noted in your comments was that jefferson was not really conflict averse. But on the other hand, it appears that he was very much in conflict both in life and death with the federalists. How do you reconcile those two things . Jefferson and his attempt to suppress conflict, it never works. We know this in our personal lives as well. Its going to come out sideways one way or another. So jefferson in avoiding conflict, and he would do it in his cabinet meetings as well theres stories about how some of his cabinet would start fighting with each other and afterwards, he would pull madison aside who was his chief of staff sort of, and say make sure that does not happen again basically. He liked having his ducks all lined up, to the point that in cutlers a very detailed journal of that seventh congress, hes frustrated. The federalists in general are frustrated. There is no allowance made for debate, because all the boats are already arranged. Jefferson made sure with some of the leaders and the speaker who were all jeffersonians, that is soon as the orders came down from the Jefferson White house, all you had to do is vote on it and that was it. Your suppressing conflict, but in the fact of suppressing it, youre not acknowledging other peoples input. When people are not involved in the process, they doubled down. We know this from the way politics is done today. I would say jefferson was a failure. He certainly did not make any attempt to reconcile, but he was certainly a failure to kind of erased conflict. As plummer said in his very acute observation, hes actually aggravating conflict. Hes actually aggravating conflict by not giving it voice. We will have two more questions. We could carry this on for the rest of the day and be fascinated, but were trying to be respectful of your time and everyone else his time. One question was, has anyone ever done an analysis of the people who ran for congress and didnt win . Who were they and what was the context of those campaigns when you talk about experiencing defeat . In this period . Yes. I imagine, certainly, i like to think of myself as well read in the secondary literature. However, you will find only snippets. Theres no systematic way of looking at how many lawyers lost reelection. For example, i did it with my thatcher book. I did a very Detailed Analysis of who he ran against, what the issues were and why that person lost every time to george thatcher. It would be so difficult. I think it would be lovely if it happened. There are great websites. I encourage people to go on America Votes which is a website run by the american antiquarians society. It