Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hiroshima Nagasaki And End Of World War II 20240712

Been a little change since could derbies day. Number one spokesman malcolm x said the only important changes have been brought about not by whites and not by integration, but by elijah muhammad. The question is, i was mohammed colbert helping the gross. The girls dont know the truth. If i dont eagle getting drunk, he doesnt know the truth. It is no the true, fun in your lying and cheating he doesnt know the truth. Hes usually imitating the white man, the girls get drunk because i see white men getting. John they Smoke Cigarettes because i see white men spoken cigarettes. When they turn on the television all the seas a white man with fornication and adultery. So they want to be the like the white man. Mohammed teaches black people the glory blocks. Instead of he tries to display high moral equality rather than low moral quality. Steer by some whites that the blocks advocate violence. Thats not exactly the case. They say they dont believe in starting a fight but of white men mistreating they wont turn the other cheek. A brand of militancy has forced other niagara leaders to become more aggressive. Seen plights red of increasing muslim power that makes some whites moderate with. So theyre making a drive for. Hogg is six mark the 75th anniversary of the bombing atomic bombing of near hiroshima in japan. United states dropped a third atomic bomb on nagasaki three days. Later the emperor marked the Unconditional Surrender on august 15th, 1945 with the formal surrender ceremony taking place on september seconds on the uss missouri and world war ii. See spans washington journal were live the strategic situation, president Harry Trumans decision to use the new mission and a legacy of those atomic attacks. Next, you will hear from in toll, author of twilight of the gods, more in the western pacific, 1944, 1945. He has followed in about an hour by president trumans grandson, Clifton Truman daniels. A short time ago, an american airplane dropped one bomb on hiroshima and destroyed its usefulness to the area. That bomb has more power than 20,000 tons of tnt. The japanese began the war at pearl harbor. They have been repaid many fold. And the end is not yet. With this bomb, we have now added a new and revolutionary inquiries and destruction to supplement the growing power of our armed forces. In their present form, these balms are now in production and even more powerful bombs are in development. It is an atomic bomb. It is a harnessing of the basic power of the universe. The force from which the sun draws its power has been left lose by those who brought war to the far east. We are now preparing to destroy more rapidly and completely every preventative enterprise the japanese have in any city. We shall destroy their guns, their factories and their communications. Let there be no mistake, we shall completely destroy japans power to make war. It will spare the japanese people from utter destruction that the ultimatum of july the 26th was issued. Their leaders promptly rejected that ultimatum. If they do not now accept our terms, they may expect a reign of glory from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this arrow tank will follow sea and land forces in such numbers at a power as they have not yet seen, and with the fighting skill of which where they are already aware. Ian toll is an author an independent scholar of pacific war historian, and is set to release his latest publication, book, twilight of the gods, war in the western pacific, 1944 to 1944. Ian toll welcome to washington journal on this 75th anniversary. Thank you, glad to be here. We heard from the president harry truman after the hiroshima bombing. From your research and study of the war and the bombings in particular, why did harry truman do it . Well, i think decision to use the bomb was really implicit in the Manhattan Project. So, it was really assumed from the time before the time that truman came to office in april, after the death of fdr, that this weapon, if it worked, that it would be used. So it may be more accurate to say that there was a nondecision, essentially. German did not decide to intervene to stop a project that was very much in train when he came into office. The assumption had been made that if we build the bomb, we have the bomb, we would used to bomb in order to bring the war to an end. And i think the perspective we have now that the atomic bomb is different, essentially different from conventional weapons, that is something we have with hindsight. For truman and his advisers in the summer of 1945, i dont think that was clear to them that the atomic bomb was fundamentally different from conventional bombings. And we had already, essentially, wiped out an enormous percentage of japans urban areas with conventional bombing and incendiary rates. So using the atomic bomb, in their view at that time, did not seem like a break or departure from what they were already doing. Its really with hindsight that we understand that weapon to be something basically different . Is it true that when harry truman assumed the presidency on april 12th of 1945, harry truman did not know anything about the Manhattan Project and, to, how did he learn about it in the space of less than four short months . How did he become confident is in his decision to use this weapon . Yes, it is true that he was not briefed on the Manhattan Project. He had been vaguely aware that there was a very large, very secret, very expensive project underway. In the senate before he was put on the ticket as fdrs Vice President ial candidate in 1944, the most important thing he had done in the senate, the thing that really made his name was that he chaired a committee that investigated corruption and waste in the munitions industry. This is called the truman committee, in his capacity as chairman of that investigative senate committee, he had learned about these enormous plants that were being built in tennessee and in washington state. And he had inquired and begun to use his investigative resources to try and determine what was happening there. And secretary stimson, Harry Simpson was a secretary of war, he went to german and said were doing something very important and it is very secret and were going to ask you not to inquire any further. And truman agreed. We when he was elevated to the president , he was briefed and truman appointed secretary of state we, by the state of the Manhattan Project. Were talking about it with the end, tall whose brand new book is coming out and september, twilight of the got, war in the western pacific, 1944 to 1945. The lines, as they were last hour, for the eastern and central time zones 2027488000. Mountain pacific, 2027488001. For those who are bets or family, 2027488002. And for japanese americans, 2027488003. One of the questions that came up was a demonstration of the bomb to show the power instead of using it on a city . Thats a hard question. In my view is should we have not we have used the bomb, given the circumstances in the summer of 1945, the urgent need, but in those circumstances, the bomb was defensible. Dropping it on a city is a different question. I think i am in a minority among military historians in this feeling, a preference i have, that i wouldve liked to see a use against a military target. The question of a demonstration has been raised. Theres arguments against a demonstration. Number one, and might have backfired. If you had announced that were going to demonstrate the bomb and it had not worked, which was a possibility, that would double japanese determination to resist. I do think there would be a way to demonstrate the bomb without running into that problem, dropping it very high in the atmosphere, off the coast of tokyo, off the tokyo bay for. That wouldve made enormous flash, it wouldve sent a message to the japanese. I dont think that wouldve prompted a rapid surrender. So, the reason that you might have done that is abstract, its an abstract reason. You do that because, in the long run, it may enhance the countrys moral standing. I do think that is important, but you have some callers who are fathers and grandfathers who are in the war, for american veterans, and those who wouldve participated and the innovation of japan, the atomic bomb has never been an abstraction to them, its something real, and something they believe saved their lives. That belief is something that i think we need to acknowledge and respect, so that is where i come out. Looking, back i would like to see the bomb used differently. And particular, not dropped on a city. The first one drop in a military target. I think that it would have been more defensible. Was there any military or military related targets and either of those cities . Yes. Hiroshima had a very important Regional Military headquarters. The second army was headquartered in hiroshima. Hiroshima had been an army town, really going back to the preinvasion days of the samurai. So there was an important military target and the city was not chosen for that reason. However, none of the four cities, thats hiroshima, nagasaki, on the sea of japan and on the very northern tip. The cities had not been chosen because of their military character, and the military installations that were in those cities were not specified as the aiming points for the bombs. The cities were chosen because they had been relatively unscathed and conventional bombing raids, and the idea was that you wanted to drop the bomb on a city that had the topography and the conditions that would provide the greatest demonstration to the bombs power. It is true that there was an important army base in hiroshima. The clip that you played by president truman, upon announcing the first atomic bomb, he said we had an important army base. Well, hiroshima was a large city, it was a seventh largest city in japan with a base in it. So, i think from the point of view of looking back, with 75 years of perspective, in that situation, you would prefer the president look into the i have the camera and tell the world exactly what we have done without mincing words, without using that kind of circumlocution. Before we get to calls, was there a third bomb ready to be dropped in case the japanese did not surrender . The third bomb wouldve become available by the end of august. On august 6th, we hit nagasaki we, did not have a third bomb at that point. It wouldve been another two or three weeks. In tall is our guest. Your calls are next. First up is charles in richmond, virginia. Good morning. Its very interesting when you hear of those defections. Im wondering about why they drop the bomb because america was so passionate against japan. Japan had pulled a sneak attack on pearl harbor, we didnt even know that the war was going to start, and japan did not do that. What happened when the bomb became available, all you knew was that you had just become president , they did not really like him. They put it to him and said, look, you had this bomb. To me, it was already you cant drop an atomic bomb and say, well, lets drop it tomorrow. Lets drop it next week. They had already planned, and everything was planned. It really did not make too much difference with truman, because the United States is going to drop that bomb. Charles, ian told, you think the president had a . Say absolutely. The constitution confers armies powers, and virtually Unlimited Power as commander and chief at wartime. So truman had the power to simply tell his cabinet and his military leaders to not use the bomb in the following way we. I do think its true that the motive of revenge was in the mix there. I would not say that is the reason we use the weapon the way we did, but it certainly did set the context, the sneak attack on pearl harbor, japanese atrocities against civilians, the treatment of prisoners of war. These were all factors that played into the decision to use the atomic bomb and also to burned down japanese cities with incendiary bombing raids. Truman certainly did have decided, he wouldnt have asked to ask for permission or his cabinet take a vote on the question. He couldve said we need to hit a city, or we are going to explicitly warned the japanese that we have this 11. In the private diary on july 25th, its a very strange injury where he says, actually, ive instructed secretary simpson to use this weapon against military targets and not against women and children. And i have also instructed him to, that will make an explicit warning to the japanese telling them to surrender. Thats on, because he did not give that order. In his irony, he seems to have believed it or, perhaps he wanted to have future historians believe that the whole decision had been made differently. Certainly, he had the power. One of the fascinating questions as if fdr had lived, how would have fdr decided to use the bomb . He wouldnt have been at all he wouldnt have hesitated at all to make his own decisions. He was accustomed to doing. That lets hear from anthony and north creek, new york. On our line for world war ii veterans and families. Good morning. Im calling for my family and its two brothers. My father went in the army in february of 41. He fought in the philippines, he fought a niijima and it was also in okinawa. He was also in the occupation in japan. He came time in 1946, and we never found out he never talked about the war until he got older and it was against them dropping the bomb. If we were to have a fight, i probably wouldve never come home. It was a flip of the coin, and in my opinion, i would say yes, one was in normandy, a paratrooper, and my other uncle was a medic. So those people from that generation, they fought hard for our country. When i talk about my father and his brothers, im very proud of them because thats something we would not be able to do. The map on your book, or the operation olympic, part of the planned evasion of japan, is that figure anticipated 1 million u. S. Casualties fairly accurate in terms of across the board . From your research as well . Well, no. The question is, at the time that we were planning operation downfall, operation Olympic Games the first stage. That was the invasion of the Southern Island of japan. At the time that our leaders were planning that operation, there was never a point in which they were projecting casualties on the order of 1 million. There have been quite of work doing on this, by historians and researchers because of how often you hear that kind of figure, we might have lost 1 million or half 1 million. The answer seems to be that the casualty projections were significantly lower than that. And that is a disputed point, and different casualty figures, different ways of thinking about it but at no point did our military leaders, at no point they expect something on the order of 1 million casualties. The projections were much lower, maybe as many as 200 total casualties. That doesnt really tell us much about the atomic bomb decision. You cant say, well, casualties wouldve been lower so we shouldve invaded. I think invading wouldve been a disaster, regardless of what kind of casualties we wouldve taken. So avoiding a bloody invasion of japan was essential. And that is why using the atomic bomb was inevitable. As i say, using it against a city is a different question. I dont think we should have used it. Thats just my belief. But as the caller mentioned, there are so many people in this country that have fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers, and uncles who were veterans of that war and who believed that their lives are on the line. And that is something that i respect very deeply. Its interesting that the caller said that, i think it was his father, he said had been in japan with the occupation after the war and that his personal belief was that we should not have dropped the bomb. One of the interesting phenomenon when you look at veterans in the war is that those who were in japan after the war with the occupying forces, they tended to have a much more nuanced view of the japanese. In fact, many came to like the japanese as a people. They were more ready to make the distinction between the way Japanese Fighting forces had behaved during the war, and the way the japanese people are in general. They were more willing to make that distinction because of the personal exposure they had had to japan and the japanese in the nation of japan after the war. Airline for japanese americans is 2027488003. On that line, scott. Good morning. I am half japanese. My father was drafted in world war ii. My grandfather was drafted by the Japanese Army and fought and manchuria. I keep seeing every year, you talk about pearl harbor that america was attacked unprovoked, which is not true. Like truman said, on that clip that was shown and like charles said in the call that japan bombed pearl harbor unprovoked, thats not true. The flying tigers were flying under the secret order of the president , and until 1996, when i think it was reagan or clinton acknowledged that the flying tigers were part of the military to get the va benefit, then it showed that they were under military payment for the company. So i keep hearing of this japanese unprovoked attack when that is not true. Im not saying that the war was not a bad thing, because it was a terrible thing of what japan did to china, parts of russia, the philippines, to the americans and people who actually ended up fighting with them. There were terrible things that happened. Okay, scott will get a response. Yes. I think the count for the japanese with how they began the war, not so much that it was unprovoked attack, yes it was said it was unprovoked, but that there was no formal declaration of war prior to the attack. So it was the idea of a sneak attack, a surprise attack that really infuriated americans. You know, the attack had been planned. We were engaged in negotiations with the japanese government to try to adjust the differences that we had, and that attack suddenly descended on pearl harbor without a declaration of war. So that played into the particular brutality of the pacific war. Scott did not say what his father did when he was drafted, but one of the, i think, the most interesting stories about the pacific war and little heard is the role of japanese americans who worked as interpreters, who worked as language officers, who helped deliver propaganda messages to the japanese. And it was an essential role in places like okinawa. The heroism of the japanese american soldiers who down to the caves and negotiated directly with japanese forces, trying to encourage them to surrender at enormous personal risk. That is one of the Great Stories about the pacific war that is not as familiar to people. To jean in buoy, maryland. On our line for vets and families. Good morning. I was 12 years only we declared war on the japanese. I was the youngest of five children. My three brothers and sisters were on active duty in the military. For two reasons, one personal and one family, we loved trumans decision. My two brothers at the time, just before the invasion, my two brothers were in combat. Two were in combat in the pacific, one was on a navy seal tanker. Both had close calls with death, and my mother knew. I never forget how my mother was absolutely terrified every time the telephone rang for about the last four months of the war. The second reason, and this one is just more personal, this guy cannot forget about the japanese, im sorry, but they would be treated prisoners. My sister was a naval nurse at Chelsea Naval hospital. There were two nurses. She wanted to stay in the navy, but she had to get married in october 41. The naval officer, she was not allowed to stay in the navy, that was a rule. So she had to leave the navy and you get married. The nine girls that were there, and i remember vividly, the succumb for home in massachusetts, they were full of life. Wonderful young ladies. They would just say this, they were caught and the death march. She called the supervisor to see what happened to the young ladies. Seven died, and two were not able to get medicine. We were for trumps decision. One other fact, and this one ive never heard mentioned, i think its maybe true that the People Killed in the hiroshima bomb were not all japanese. I believe in hiroshima they were more than 20,000 korean slave workers. I believe its also true in nagasaki. Is that true . That there were tens of thousands of slave workers who were killed in these bombings, its never mentioned. Yes, it is true. I dont know if its 20, 000, but it sounds like its the right number of koreans who were working in hiroshima. And an enormous number of koreans. To a lesser extent, chinese, were killed in the atomic bombings as well as the conventional bombing raids. There were also westerners in japan. There were about, almost 1 of the population of japan during the Second World War had been christians, or were christians. Some of them were secretly christians. So christianity actually had a foothold in japan, going back several centuries because of the jesuit missionaries had it come from portugal and spain. With some of the most horrific accounts are by jesuit catholic priests who were european or german. So these cities, i wouldnt say they were international, but to the extent that they were foreigners living in japan, they tend to live in the large cities. Yes, they were affected and both of the atomic bombings. Whether any american vws in either city . Yes. There were american p. O. W. s in the area of both hiroshima and nagasaki. A number of personal accounts came out after the war about their having witnessed the bombings. I believe there were even pwc believed that they had heard or seen a flash for both hiroshima and nagasaki, which gives you some idea of how far away it was possible to see and hear these explosions. Next up, frank in lexington, north carolina. Good morning. Good morning. Im calling from my father. I have his testament that he carried, and he made notes in this during his service. He was a navy courts men, and id like to share. This is the aftermath of the dropping of the bomb. Japan, september 60, 1945. He had been training for the invasion. He arrived in japan september 22nd, 1945. That is the seaport next to inland nagasaki. Two weeks after being there, and he was on both sides, at least from the veterans administration, he was all around nagasaki. He talked to me about treating the people that had been survivors, but within two weeks, his whole unit was deathly sick. And they were, at that point moving to halfway between hiroshima and nagasaki. As a surviving son, my father passed away age 54, and all of his siblings id love to the ripe old age. I believe its due to radiation from the bomb. During september, his whole unit was exposed, and i think that was part of the reason of his premature. Death he was a christian vero thoroughly. He had cancer and service. And japan a 1977. My mother was a registered nurse. They asked a lot of questions. I was about ten years old when i asked my father that i heard the word armageddon it sunday school. He said son i have already been there and you never want to see. It you never want to see it. Frank in north carolina. Your thoughts in . If you want to talk about how the atomic bomb was different from conventional bombings, the issue of radiation is one of the first things that you consider. Admiral william lee he was the chairman of the joint chiefs after the war. He left a scathing passage in his post war memoir saying he felt it had been sort of a moral atrocity to drop this weapon on a city. And it was this revelation that he had that this was a poison weapon. He said he didnt understand that until the bomb was dropped. And you have these reports of radiation poisoning. And i think that our government and general mcarthur the Supreme Commander of japan after the war, they suppressed really all discussion of this issue of radiation. And they did so in a way that allowed some of our own serviceman to be exposed. I think that really was a historically great disgrace. We allowed our own forces to be exposed in hiroshima and nagasaki without allowing them to fully understand the risks involved in radiation. He said that his dad was a navy course men. They were really along the most heroic people on the battlefields. They expose themselves directly to enemy fire to treat wounded on the battlefield end to pull the wounded off the field to safety. And they also suffered some of the highest casualty rates in places like you would jima in particular and okinawa. Our guest is ian toll. Here author of the truly of books on the war in the pacific. His latest published in september, twilight of the gods, war of the western pacific 1944 to 1945. We welcome your calls and comments. To go to seven for eight 8001 mountain embassy fake hunker 807 for a 2002 or 2003 for japanese families americans he until, we have a photo in the book that i think we showed video of what part of tokyo looked like after repeated firebombings of the city. Why did the u. S. Not continue with that strategy. It appears to be equally as destructive as some of the photographs and videos that we have nagasaki and hiroshima. The fire bombings were continuing up to the end of the war. We were still running conventional bombing raids over japan even after nagasaki. And as you say, those incendiary bombing raids most likely if you take all of the incendiary and conventional bombing raids of japanese cities, the number of japanese civilians killed in those conventional bombing attacks exceeded the number that were killed in hiroshima and nagasaki. The first great fire bombing, the enormous fire bombing of tokyo that occurred on the night of march 10th and 11th 1945 it is very hard to say exactly how many people that killed. Thats partly because all of the government records in the neighborhoods that were wiped out were destroyed. People were moving in and out of the city in that time a war. Vaguely estimate exactly how many people were killed. But almost everyone and anne to in the japanese government studied the issue believes that it was at least 100,000. It could have been more like 150,000. Its conceivable that in that one nights firebombing raid you had more People Killed than hiroshima and nagasaki combined. At least initially if you dont count radiation deaths afterwards. So the scale of these firebombing raids was really enormous. And i think that was partly the reason that the assumption that we would drop these weapons on cities was not challenged by truman or by any of his principal advisers. Because there was a feeling that we had already taken this step to start essentially attacking japanese Population Centers from the air. Lets hear from salt lake city. Good morning. My brother fought in world war ii. Because of that, i have always been extremely interested. I like American History and specifically world war ii. I watched all the documentaries that i could find. I have cable and access to about 40 channels. I dont have the education or the i dont know what else to say about the people you have had on here before. But i would like to say that i am from kansas city and i have been to the Truman Library and the eisenhower library. And it is my humble opinion based on these documentaries i have watched that if they had invaded japan, they would have fought us with everything they had, everything. Anything they could put their hands on tooth and nail. I mean every step of the way. In how prepared were the japanese for an invasion . How prepared where they . At that point, japanese strength was down to its last drop. But its true as the caller says that the japanese were essentially pouring all of their remaining strength, military strength, and civilian population, they were preparing to meet the invasion and to fight us tooth and nail, as she says. You had women and children even being organized into militias and being trained how to fight with bamboo spears, being told to use kitchen knives if necessary. So i think avoiding an invasion of japan was absolutely critical. And i think it was so critical that if it was true that if you could really say the choice was bomb to cities with an atomic bomb or launch a bloody invasion, it was one of the other, i think if that was true i think that using the bombs exactly the way we did, hitting cities without a prior explicit warning, i do think that you could defend that. The traditional way in which americans have understood the atomic bombings sets up this kind of forced binary where you have to choose either hit the cities without warning or launch an invasion. And i personally dont think thats right. I think there were many other options other than just those two. I think you can make a pretty good case, although there is a counter factual argument that an invasion wouldnt have been necessary. With or without the atomic bombs. Keep in mind, the invasion of cuba, the first stage of the planned invasion, the target date was november 1st. Thats almost three months after the bombing of hiroshima. So the idea that the bombs were a last resort to an invasion that was just about to happen is, not quite right. As i say, veterans of that war had their own very, very strongly held beliefs about what had happened at the end of the war and as a historian and someone who has interviewed literally hundreds of world war ii veterans, i have never made it a practice to argue with world war ii veterans about this. I present my views, but i think its important to recognize and to honor the feelings and the very strong feelings that veterans have about the subject. Twilight of the gods is a third in your trilogy. How long has it taken you. How many years . A long time. 14 years i would say. 14 years. Phil is next up in Mammoth Lakes california. Thank you for taking my call. Im 80 years old. My grandfather was in the army corps. He served on december seven and my father and law served in the u. S. Navy for three years. And most of that time in the South Pacific. Ironically, the shift the ship that he was on that eventually was decommissioned and was used as a ship for testing the atomic tests that were done i have a lot of feelings on this from a humanitarian point of view. The japanese empire was really defeated in 1944. It was an island country, as were all the islands that the u. S. Army and marines fought their way up to japan. The fire bombing of the civilians in japan was just in my opinion inhumane the war was over. They had defeated the country. An invasion was not needed. The bombs were not needed. You have an island nation that lost their navy. They had no air force. The army had been defeated. The couldve put it an embargo and surrounded the Company Country for years and occupied a few years afterwards. I think it set the stage for a future as a young man in the fifties going through grammar school, conducting drills for the atomic bomb and the nuclear age and the terror and all the rest of it. We have all had to live with that. I think it was unnecessary and it set the stage for the bad things that have happened since and the threat of nuclear war as well. The one more thing on that. Top tag onto that a question about who had a naval blockade have been effective . Thats a question from a viewer and huntington woods, michigan. We had a naval blockade in place at the end of the war. We had essentially destroyed japans merchant marine, oil tankers, the kind of background of the pacific war was that japan is a place that has virtually no Natural Resources at all. It has no oil to speak of, low grade coal. Very little mining and minerals as well. So why did japan strikeout to seize this enormous empire in asia and the pacific . Above all i think it was a desire that theyre militarist in period list regime had to control their own sources of Natural Resources oil being the most important the oil fields that they took modern day indonesia and the east indies, the islands of borneo and sumatra. Thats 300 miles from 3000 miles from japan. They had the problem of trying to import oil through this 3000mile artery that could very easily be attacked and was attacked by our submarines, by our air power, and by the third month of 1945. We had essentially cut that line completely. It is absolutely true i absolutely agree with the collar that the japanese war machine was essentially kind of spluttering to a complete halt by the time that we ended the war with the atomic bombs. And it is certainly true, you could make a good counter factual argument that if we didnt have the atomic bombs, forget whether we use them, say if we didnt have them at all most likely the japanese would have surrendered by some point in the fall of 1945. So was the japanese fleet defeated at that time . Absolutely. The japanese fleet really didnt exist. We had destroyed it. We saw all of their ships. Some all of their ships what little remained of boosts their navy was in japanese harbors. We were attacking their ships at anchor with our carrier planes. Japanese navy was totally finished by the summer of 1945. I do agree. I do agree that the blockade most likely would have forced a japanese surrender. But how long would that have taken . That is hard to say. The Japanese Army which really had control of the country, the rank and file of that army was determined not to surrender. So really what you are asking is a political question. In tokyo, how would you have created the conditions for the emperor to be able to say we are going to accept this Unconditional Surrender . And to have that decision stick across the military as i say, i think you can make a good argument that would have happened even without the atomic bombs by the fall of 1945. But thats a counter factual argument. As a historian and scholar you need to acknowledge uncertainty and ambiguity there. What was going on in the nine days between the bombing of hiroshima and the announcement by the emperor of surrender on august 15th . What took so long . You had turmoil in the capital, as i say. The rank and file of the Japanese Army, the elites kind of middle echelon of the officer corps at the imperial headquarters in tokyo and at the Army Ministry were dead set against anything resembling surrender. The idea of letting an Occupying Army, letting the enemy send an Occupying Army onto japanese soil without a fight, that was anathema to them. And so you had in the highest circle of power, within the inner circle of the ruling group, u. S. You had essentially a deadlock between those who by that time were saying we dont have any choice. The nazis had been defeated. We are alone. We need to surrender and we have to be rational about this, and then the militarist sort of die hard hardline fight on faction. There was a deadlock within the ruling group. And it took all of that time to resolve that deadlock. Anne we had hiroshima on august 6th. Nagasaki was on august 9th. s on august 9th another important thing happened. The russians declared war anne on the japanese and rolled a their are many anti ex and enormous numbers of troops from siberia into manchuria. There was a sudden soviet attack. And it was that soviet attack that really was the final straw that convinced the ruling group in japan that they had no other choice. And it created the conditions where the emperor, who generally did not intervene, to make decisions. Was able to say i am making the decision that we surrender. And the Japanese Military then accepted that decision. And so it was a difficult process for them to kind of reach that point of consensus that explains the delay. The first decision, the decision to surrender on the part of the japanese really came on august 9th. But they responded to our demand for surrender by saying we want to preserve the status of our emperor. So there was a last round of negotiations between our government and the japanese government in those last five days. That explains part of the delay as well. Here is bill in waynes burrow pennsylvania. Go ahead. Hello. My father was american okinawa, he tweeted people who had leprosy. I was proud of my dad did their roadwork to. Im ashamed of what my country did by introducing this terrible thing to the world. There are people in hiroshima and nagasaki were instantly vaporized when the bomb was dropped. There were people whose flesh was burned off of their bones. I read fun account that said people walked around silently right after this happened, believing that they had died and gone to hell. This is the horror of Nuclear Weapons. Now, if we go to today, our Nuclear Weapons are hundreds of times more powerful than those original bombs. And we could destroy this entire planet very quickly. If we did not kill all life immediately, everything, everyone would die after the Nuclear Winter from radiation, from the dust clouds that would drop out the sun. I think that, can i just say one more thing . Sure, go ahead. It may sound crazy to say that we should ban Nuclear Weapons, but how insane is it to maintain these weapons . And i would like to ask you or guess how do you feel about a worldwide ban of pursuing a true ban of Nuclear Weapons, instead of constantly updating and refining the Nuclear Weapon . We ian toll . Just to take that last question, if it were possible to ban all nukes and the hands of all governments around the world and to, you know, decisively deal with the potential problem of a non state actor getting access to a Nuclear Weapon, then absolutely i think you would be in the interest of not just this country, but the world to get rid of these weapons. There is a Silver Lining to this conversation that we are having is that we are now 75 years today since the first weapon was used against the people of hiroshima. And then 3d leaders, of course, nagasaki. And 75 years, we have not had another nukes used in any war or any conventional war against any civilian population, we have never seen a nuclear used. In 1975 1945, excuse me. People at the end of the war, americans looking forward would have been surprised that that had been the case. There was very much at assumption that this was a new era of warfare, and we see more of these bombs used. Throughout the cold war, this was a constant terror. We had generations who grew up having to do these duck and cover drills in classrooms, we came very close on several occasions during the cold war to a nuclear exchange, the cuban missile crisis, potential accidents that could have so weve been very fortunate that we have not seen these weapons used again. So i think that is something that we can celebrate today. A couple of more calls, lets go to be in crowding, texas. Good morning. I just want to say that it seems awfully easy for a lot of people to be saying that we should not have done this, or we should not have done that when they werent here and they werent living through this. But those of us who were, were glad when it was all over. I had two uncles who were japanese p. O. W. One went through the death march and, my family just rejoiced when the war was over. People were getting killed regardless, and just put an end to it for a while at least. Ian tall, how soon after the bombings did the americans know the news . No the news that we had dropped the bomb . Yes. You played the trip of president trumans newsreel announcement appointee augusta, so just within an hour of the bombing, we add the white house issue a statement explaining that we had this new weapon, and that we had dropped it. Unfortunately, i think from looking back, and with hindsight, we said that we had drafted on a Japanese Military, base which is not true. It would be like saying, if you dropped a nuke on san diego, and be like saying we hit an American Naval base. Well, theres a city there. A big city. And if you are going to do that, you ought to be able to say that this is what we did. I think that looks better and the long lines of history, but as the last caller said for americans who are fighting in that war, these obstructions were not important to them. These are obstructions. These are things that we say, how does it make us look as a country in the long term . What does it do for our legacy . Those are abstract questions. If you are fighting on the ground, a marine, a soldier, a sailor, you expect to be deployed in this final invasion of japan, the issue looks much different. At that point, you are willing for your country, your president to do anything at all to end this war. Ended quickly and without an invasion. And it was the brutality of the war. In 1940, five i think we should be clear about this, the American People poland shows this. The American People understood the atomic bombings as an act of revenge against the japanese for the way they are treated civilians throughout asia and the way they had treated our prisoners. And the way that orthodox or traditional defenses of the atomic bombings that we hear most often now, the issue of revenge is removed from the equation. Its more that we hit these two cities because the total number of dead would have been lower than an invasion and we could use utilitarian reasoning. The greatest good for the greatest number, that is the defense of the bombings, not as an act of revenge. The initial feeling we had that this was an act of retribution against a barbaric enemy, that only survived the first year or two after the war. Once we started getting graphic accounts of what happened, when john hushings article was published in the new yorker, that was a year after the bombings, august 1946, then the American People really started to wrestle with this, and to realize that this is not how we think about ourselves as a country. We dont take revenge on women and children in cities. So the expectation was, we had to do that. That was a terrible thing, a horrible tragedy, but we had to because the alternative would have been worse. Ian tall, author of twilight of the gods, the third and final volume of the war trilogy, we appreciate you joining us on the 75th anniversary. My pleasure. Our program, continues we are joined next by an Associated Press reporter calling us from hiroshima, and it was reporting on the 75th anniversary there in hiroshima. Mary yamaguchi, good morning. Im not in japan but, yes, good morning. What can you tell us about the ceremony that took place today in the peace park in hiroshima . Yes. It was held at the Peace Memorial park but this year it has been significantly scaled down because of the coronavirus problem. So there were only about fewer than 1000 people that attended, which is about one tenth of the usual attendants. I understand the mayor of hiroshima spoke. What we hear from the mayor . She said that despite the coronavirus scare, World Leaders were called to cooperate together more than ever, and also he urged World Leaders to visit hiroshima and see firsthandt the reality of the atomic bombing so that they will abandon Nuclear Weapons. Also he noted that the japanese government should do more to take leadership in playing the bridge between Nuclear States and non nuclear, states so that they can Nuclear States so that they well work harder to get rid of Nuclear Weapons. Mary yamaguchi, you have been reporting this week on the survivors, the victims of hiroshima and how they have been stigmatized over the years in japan. There is an urgency to bear witness grows for last hiroshima victims your article, how is japan helping to preserve the legacy of those survivors . Rather than the government i think it is citizens groups and pacifist groups that are helping and working with them more than the government. Although some local governments including hiroshima are trying to set up occasions for them to tell their stories. To share with younger people so that they will learn their lessons in their lifetime. There are also projects initiated by hiroshima and some other cities to train young people to learn specific survivors stories so that they can continue to tell their story on their behalf. Associated press reporter maria look gucci joining us this morning reporting on the 75th anniversary of he russia and nagasaki. Thank you so much. Thank you. Theres more i had another hour here on your program of your calls in comments. Up next will continue our discussion of the anniversary Truman Daniel. First of all here is the former president to sit explaining his decision to use the atomic weapons. From out takes from a Television Series that talk to chairman that harry truman did in the sixties. Looking back at the major events of his presidency. When we issued the ultimatum for japan to surrender, the only answer we got was to go to the devil yet all of this time some other people trying to go behind the backs trying to sue for peace in one underhanded way or another when they replied that way, we knew there was only one of two things to do. We could advance on japan we can advance in japan and fight every into the way, leaving a lot of our men dead or we could drop the atomic bomb. So we dropped the bomb and still there was no reaction we learned later that the japanese cabinet met and finally there were enough who agreed to surrender to split the cabinet in half. One half in favor of surrender, the other determined to fight on. In this spirit the emperor was finally called on to give his opinion. An unprecedented move. He didnt want his people to die more than he wanted to surrender. At the military was so strong they would not notified their decision so we had to drop a second bomb an nagasaki. That did it. Ill tell you with that those two a bombs dropped on them to show them that we met business, they might never have surrendered. Even though they knew they would be licked but they wouldve wouldve killed 3 million more people on both sides. Thats why there is no question of the whole Japanese Military of the dropping of the atom bomb was the only sensible thing to do. It was the only thing to do. All right a lot of crybabies round that would shouldve ought to down. And the shouldve had a demonstration been seen before we killed all those people. I had the authority of the best men in the business and thats very else temps in that the only operation japanese would understand would be to show them what it was and thats what happened. It stopped the war. I dont care what the crybabies say no. They didnt have to make the decision. Joining us from chicago, as Clifton Truman daniels the grandson of harry truman. Joining us tonight on the 75th anniversary of the bombing of hiroshima. You were 15 years old when your grandfather passed away. You have said in past conversations with us that you never had a chance to talk with indirectly about the decision to bomb hiroshima and nagasaki. What have you come to regarding his decision. What is your view of his decision to drop those bombs . Why do you think you grandfather made that decision . My grandfather always said that he made the decision to end the war and save american and japanese lives. I understand that that is a simplistic answer but that is something he stuck to all of his life. For me, ive been listening a little bit to the previous program, the previous guests. It is still today a complicated issue as to whether that was the right or the wrong decision, whether and in the warm weather didnt, whether blockade wouldve done the same thing. Whether or not we wouldve had to invade. For me, working with survivors, working with the Truman Library, for me its more important to listen to the stories, to understand why it happened why the decision was made. So that we dont do it again and more broadly, so that we can avoid future conflict. I think if we look at all the reasons that we got to where we got to where we got, well have a better understanding of how to head off again. Well sometimes it dont have much hope for that. What sort of resources have you used in your quest to figure out that decision . Where are you looking for your information on your grandfathers decision . Just reading broadly. Biographies of my grandfather, its memoir, reading books that he wrote after the presidency. From his point of view, but also from the other side, talking to survivors, working with survivors in hiroshima and nagasaki. Listening to the stories, trying to understand the Japanese Point of view. Generally, whatever comes my way, whatever is new, whatever i think might i might be telling us more understanding. You are well along and your career, profession, the life of a parent when in 2012 you were the first truman to visit hiroshima as part of a visit there. That was a program we aired with cspan in 2012. What prompted your decision to go to japan, to go to hiroshima . Ill try and shorten it. Its a bit of a long story. When my son leslie was ten years old, he came home from school with a book, said sadat go and 1000 paper cranes. For those who dont know sadat go sopko was a real little girl who survived the bombing of hiroshima at the age of two. Her for her inner family were fairly lucky, they survived largely, however they lost grandmother in the attack. She went on to develop radiation induced leukemia at the age of 11. In the hospital she followed a japanese tradition that if you fold 1000 or a ghani paper cranes that you are granted health. So daca folded 1300 cranes and sadly she died of leukemia and 1955 at the age of 12. There is a monument to sadat go and to all the children who were second or killed or wounded by the bomb and here she in this piece hes park today. Wesleys teacher, didnt just given the book. She taught the japanese culture. She taught in japanese history, she took into a japanese restaurant. They fully cranes in closs, they had a tea ceremony. I came home one often from work and found wesley wearing a kimono with going green tea and sushi laid out on the floor teen sushi laid out on the. And so she bought all japan into our house. On subsequent anniversary of the bombings, when japanese journalist called looking for a comment of the truman family, i mentioned that story. I mentioned that we had read the doctors story together. And i told wesley at the time that i thought it was important for him to understand his great grandfathers decision, his countrys point of view, but also to understand what that cost the people of hiroshima and nagasaki. Wesley said that he enjoyed the book. He remembered enjoying the book as a child. What he said was that it was different from all of his childrens books and that it did not have a happy ending. I think it was in 2005, i had a call from japan from masahiro, so tacos older brother, a survivor himself of the bombing. He had roger japanese he had read japanese journalists account, read the interviews that they had done with me. He asked me if we could meet someday, if we might be able to works together. I said yes. It took us five more years. We did not meet until 2010, in new york city. Masahiro and his son hugely were visiting the 9 11 tribute center, to donate one sadat goes last original cranes as a gesture of healing for the 9 11 terrorist attacks. During that meeting, it some thumb took a crane from a boxer he was carrying and drop the crane into my palm and told me that was the last crane thats the daca had folded before she died. At that time he asked me if i would consider visiting nagasaki and one of the ceremonies. I agreed. Our guest is cool for Daniel Truman skinny clifford tremendous annual. Were gonna get some more from a program in 20,012. Folks to go to seven foray 8001 mountain in pacific for those of you who are world war ii veterans. During that trip mr. Daniel you spoke to several survivors. I want to play the video was still a conversation of one of the store because survivors telling his conversation. I remove the rubble by digging around the area and and i managed to fell a tree. In front the concrete foundation of our house was covered with a big polar and i could not go forward. My mother was lying face up in her eyes were bleeding. Since i couldnt make it to her side i asked or can you move unless she said no unless you can move the stuff from my shoulder i cant move. But i couldnt. I was a militarist boy and i knew that japan was cornered and going to lose soon so i was always dreaming every day that i would get on a plane throw myself directly onto the u. S. Battleships. I never imagined such a horrible thing would happen to me. But i have to say to my mother the fire is spreading so fast that i cannot help you. And my mother said, get away from here quick. I said go visit my father who passed away in may. Ill follow you shortly. So i went away from that scene leaving my mother. Knowing that she was going to die in the fire. Clifton Truman Daniel how did those stories and you 2012 trip changed your perspective on the bombing of hiroshima . Obviously, i think your viewers will also agree that those are hard to listen to. We listened to and they call a testimony. Survivors give testimony. My family and i listen to two more than two dozen on that trip. But it is hard as it is to listen to you have to remember i have to remember its much harder for the survivors themselves to relive it. And they do, day after day after day after day when they tell these those stories. And they are committed to doing that so that we understand the horror of a nuclear attack. And prevented dont do it again. I was struck by other survivors, by that kang us that generosity that theyre willing to really tell these stories over and over again for our benefit. Not one of them came to me in anger or recrimination. They simply wanted to tell me those stories and asked me at the end of of each interview if i would help by keep telling those stairs again in the name of discernment and peace. Those survivors now obviously 80 years old or older. What do you see is your role as those survivors die pass away . We do see is your role is telling you hear a showman story . To keep telling those stories. To keep telling openly and honestly, telling those stories, telling the human story and the atomic bombings, the decision, the,. To keep telling those in bombings, the decision, the facts the reasons to keeping opening about that. To keep telling those in the name of honesty and accurate. To feel uncomfortable for you knowing that youre that decision was made by a grandfather . No. I will credit the survivors with that. Survivors and massive,. Masahiro susaki. No, they the atmosphere was respectful. Again, open, blunt, factual, but respectful on both sides. I was not uncomfortable in that regard at all. We have plenty of calls waiting. Our guest clifton Daniel Truman, former grandson of president former president print harry truman. , on the 75th anniversary of the bombing of hiroshima nagasaki, for those of you who are world war ii vets or family members, william inordinate florida. I was. I landed on okinawa i was an 18 year old boy. At that time there were about 2000 landing crafts. Hes landing crafts were gonna be used to invade japan. They had over two and a half thousand cannot kamikaze plans waiting for us. Good friend of mine bill was involved with general mcarthur on the invasion of japan. I said to him, what wouldve happened one was it gonna be . He said i was gonna be november 1st. I said we had a tremendous typhoon on november the 1st. What wouldve done to the invasion . He said it wouldve destroyed the invasion. The winds were over 150 miles an hour. Destroyed everything on okinawa and there was no way that the invading fleetwood survive. General mcarthur sent bill haley to japan to check out the area. He was the First American in japan after the atom bomb and he said the destruction was unbelievable. What they had waiting for us he said was unbelievable as well. He said they had submarines, two men subs, that all kind of fortifications. The civilians were all armed to their teeth, waiting for the americans to invade. William in boyd and each thanks for your call. Daniel. Ive heard similar stories. Im not familiar with the typhoon that william mentioned. Those are stories that i heard also from survivors. Although there are some of them that feel that japan was defeated and that it was only a matter of weeks, months days before they surrendered. At the same time, survivors tell stories of fighting with anything that they could, with kitchen utensils. There were going to be groups of civilians who are going to be attached to groups of soldiers to fight side by side. Those stories resonate with me. At the same time, civilians were terrified. This is not something that they did train for it, but it is not something they expected. Japanese government told him they were all going to fall like the petals of Cherry Blossoms and i was going to be a glorious mass suicide. Thats in line with stories that ive heard in japan. Anne is in Clayton North carolina good morning. Good morning. Im an immigrant and i student of American History. I want to send out find out more about the country. Now im residing how would your guest answer the question. Would japan surrender without a bomb . Taking into consideration regarding the decision of yalta conference in february that took place for 11 1945 when british Prime Minister winston churchill, president Franklin Roosevelt and soviet leader Joseph Stalin decided the soviet union would enter the war against japan and it did. At that time when the bomb was dropped, the soviet union took so much territory, occupied they were about to enter al hokkaido. Soviets soviets right . The soviet army was about to enter hokkaido about the time the bomb was dropped. Was it really necessary because the soviet army wouldve occupied japan . They were moving very fast and japanese were fighting very fiercely but the power of the soviet union was huge. They were moving very fast, they were right there. Anna let you go right there. Clifton Truman Daniel rather. What does the survivors tell you that the state of the populace at that time . What was the population . Like with a prepared for any sort of potential invasion beat soviet or american . They were preparing for the invasion, drilling with a bamboo spears, drilling with army units. But at the same time, and even with saying this in your previous segment they had very little left in terms of, the civilians have very little left. There was no fuel, food was scarce. One of the survivors in fact, the first survivor than i ever heard the full story from. Sets echo thoreau gave the acceptance speech when the International Campaign to abolish Nuclear Weapons when the nobel prize for pieced in 2017 she gave a speech, she is a lifelong discern minutes advocate. When the bomb was, drop she was a 13 year old school girl. She in 29 classmates wearing an Army Building here in hiroshima. They were learning to use the secret japanese cone code machines. Sets eco told me when we met we had nothing. We had no food, we had no fuel. You had schoolgirls learning how to use the secret code machines and advance of the invasion. So while both was going on, both were happening, you had them preparing for an invasion gearing up to fight american soldiers, but they were doing it with whatever they had it hand. How did japanese generally view the post War Occupation of the u. S. . Some of the stories i heard in japan. One of the ones springs to mind was that after the bombings survivors recorded their stories by writing it down. They wrote poetry they wrote long hand, they rode it out, they wrote their experiences down. They drew pictures. A lot of japanese drew pictures of what they have been through unseen through the occupation. The u. S. Government confiscated a lot of that because it was inflammatory. They figured that if you had a lot of that out there people really knew the horror of the build bombings, it would make it harder to occupy japan and harder to rebuild. So there is resentment over that. Theres also resentment over the atomic bomb casualty hospitals set up after the war to study victims for radiation. They didnt treat, then they studied them. So on the one hand, that was helpful to general understanding, not only to the patients understanding of their disease but to world understanding of radiation poisoning. But it felt a little like labyrinths. Lab rats. Who is running those hospitals . That was us. Lets hear from kenji all here in washington d. C. Good morning. Yes. I just wanted to bring up to really important facts. Im just visiting from japan. First of all, most people seem to be unaware that whenever the u. S. Bond, they would drop leaflets, a total of 70 million were dropped that specifically said we dont want to harm you. Were working to bring peace to the country and would specifically warn people to leave areas that they will be bombing the next day. Over 70 million were dropped. Secondly, when when youre in japan they will never tell you this but especially the older people. Ive probably heard from 100 of them. They will tell you that when they heard the news of the bombing of hiroshima, they danced in the streets. Ill give you a quote because that meant the war would finally over. Mr. Mitchell felicia, who was the leader of the pearl harbor attack, met in 1959 with paul tickets who is one of the ones who dropped a the bomb. This is his quote. You did the right thing which. The japanese attitude at that time was fanatic. Every man and woman and child wouldve resisted the invasion with sticks and stones. Finally, its very important that this narrative has developed. When you speak to people who are actually adults and remember, they will all say that when they saw the american bombers fly overhead and then when they heard about the bomb, they were so happy because there is no way, they felt so terrible for the ones who passed away. But they knew that if the war came on land, about 3 Million People wouldve died. The interesting thing is, i was in baghdad before the war. It was the exact same situation. People were so desperate. Nothing could lodge a bad ruler. They said let the americans. Come wed rather have them bomb us. Some of us will die but at least we will be free. Two important facts. Over 70 million leaflets were distributed. If you go online, you can see them all. Theyre just amazing. They say the world is with you, japanese people hang on. Everything is going to be okay, were very sorry but the only thing we can do is bomb. They instruct people to leave the area of the bombing. Can generally let you go there to get a response from our guest. Thank you can say yes those are familiar to me and also makes me think of sets goes another story that she told she listened to the emperors broadcast surrendering on august 15th. She and her family and they had set up a loudspeaker or a radio system hanging the speaker from the tree. She remembers the people gathered around. They had gone up in hills and south of the city to escape the city by this time. She remembers people weeping, crying out, stunned. I think both in relief but stunned that japan would surrender. Just as an aside, surprised to be hearing the emperors voice. I think that was the first time it, it was certainly the first time that all of them around the speaker had heard the emperor speak. He didnt often address the japanese people directly. Just want to show our viewers some information on those warning leaflets to. This is a page. If you look at the atomic heritage association. An article about some of those leaflets and how they were used. Eureka california next up. William good morning. Yes good morning. My take on all this is quite different from what youve already heard. I was born in 1943 and my dad at that time until he retired was the Administrative Assistant assistant to the admiral at maryland Naval Shipyard in vulnerable california which was a Naval Submarine base very important during that time during at that time during the war. Submarines were important. Anyway my uncle lived in eureka california and we valet oh and it was my mothers brother and he was having trouble up here with his employers. My dad asked if he would come and live with them and he could work at the shipyard. He was a head letter and and grain or. It is a lettering on the doors to all the offices and stuff like that. It was an art that had to be done at the time. Anyway, as i was growing up my uncle lived in the basement my parents were always gone on weekends. He was like a builtin babysitter. He would be stone sober monday through friday. Saturday and sunday drunk as a skunk. Really really drunk. I could never understand that. Nobody ever told me. I just thought thats the way he was. He was suffering from what we call now posttraumatic stress disorder. What would happen as i got older he would start going into the war, talking about the war. He was in the army. One time he scare the living daylights out of me. Ill never forget it as long as i live. He went downstairs he broke out his gun, his rifle and then he reached into a private area he had and he brought out a bayonet. Data he strapped it on the end of that gun and started telling me how he was calling japanese. He was mean. He got furious and then he settled down because i guess i realized i was just a little kid. Then he apologized and put it all away. You never did again but he would talk about every time he was drunk. My perspective on the whole thing is my uncle didnt want to kill anybody. He was the nicest person you couldve ever met in your life. Okay william in california. And a response. Thank you. I think of you listening do you talk about your uncle i think of fred mitchell. He lived in pennsylvania and im sorry to say i dont know if mr. Mitchell is with us anymore. He fought in the pacific. He was like youre on your uncle. He never wanted to kill anything is it. As a child growing up in a farm, he had trouble anne shooting deer when he went hunting with his father. He couldnt do it. He didnt like to kill anything. Wound up fighting in the war in the pacific. I think he was a Radio Operator on a destroyer. To kamikaze planes it his destroyer and he was very lucky to have survived. He was blown out of the way by the first explosion. When the second plane hit, the entire battery where he was stationed was destroyed. He lost most of his friends and he wound up in the water for hours, gasoline burning water, oil. He was traumatized and he came back and had ptsd. He was treated for. For decades afterwards, hated the japanese. He kept that hatred. It got so bad that his wife and his parents didnt know what to do. They were religious family, attended church every sunday but he could not shake. This they were worried about him. If he saw someone that even looked as though they were asian descent, it didnt matter, chinese korean, he got angry. Finally, he watched a program on television about a group of former marines who had fought on okinawa and a group of former kamikaze trainees who had gotten together. They had met in japan and talked to each other and put it behind them. And through one thing or another he wound up doing something similar. He travel to japan and he met with former kamikaze trent trainees and he said we were just a bunch of old men talking to each other. They were just like me. Finally, he was in his seventies when this happened, finally he was able to put that hatred away. You talked to many, many other survivors of hiroshima. I assume nagasaki as well. Have you ever spoken to a former crew members of the airplanes that dropped the bombs the ebola gay . On no, i have never spoken to anyone who is on that plane. What malaria gallup new mexico good morning. Good morning. Im with the Navajo Nation and i want to say a little piece here regarding the navajo code talkers code talkers. My father served in the Gilbert Islands over jima nagasaki and the navajo code talkers were formed and informed, you heard that term fat cat a and little big boy that the navajo were working in the South Pacific Headquarters Company and they were told that there would be something going to happen in the wind. That was the message that was sent out. After all the events of the bombing that happen, the forces were broken down and some of the no navajo code talkers were sent into nagasaki and hiroshima confiscating the weapons, guarding the streets, and distributing food and clothing. That was the role of the navajo. The message that they sent after the occupation back to San Francisco through the navajo code. We dont know who the navajo code talkers were who sent that code but thats part of history. What was said, how many buildings were destroyed, how much vegetation left, how many people to seized after the impact. What was going on there. Thank you. Maybe can Say Something about American Indians and their role in the post occupation of japan. Anne okay larry. Clifton Truman Daniel. To thanks larry. I dont know the history of native americans in the and now the hose and the occupation. I know someone who was also there with the code talkers. , its the late dorval who was a Marine Military captain he fought his way all across the pacific. Prior to the expected invasion he was looking at maps of nagasaki. They were supposed to land nagasaki near the poor area. Nagasaki is a steep river valley. Theyre steep hills all around the port. Japanese gun emplacements just to rain shelves over a rain shelves over the invading army and force. He was very worried that they were not going to make it through that initial assault. And the bombs were dropped in the war ended in, and horrible was of course very relieved that they did not have to land at nagasaki they wound up landing at nagasaki weeks later as part of the initial attack patient force. Or ville was heartsick at the destruction. The wounds on the civilians. The hillsides were bare. Nothing standing. No trees, no buildings. The u. S. Army had disarmed the japanese officers. They taken their weapons, taking their swords. There was a huge pile of swords, ceremonial swords in a warehouse up the coast for nagasaki. Or villain all the other men were urged to take these a souvenirs because other was the u. S. Was just an after destroy them. Dorval wasnt a souvenir taker he didnt believe in that. But he chose a sword, and he sent it home. Over the years afterwards, he didnt put it over his mantle. He didnt take it out and show the sword off to people. He kept it in a closet. Had a devil of a time keeping his children grandchildren away from it. Over the years, he kept it clean. He oiled it, he kept the bay blade clean. He took care of it. Yay after 67 years finally, and he wondered who wouldnt belong to ensure to give it back and how would you go about that. He tried on and off over the years to see if he couldnt find the owner of the owners family. He never had any success. Finally after he retired, 67 years after the war, through the st. Paul minnesota nagasaki sister city commission, he found somebody who could translate the wooden tag that was on the hilt of the sword. Most of the swords didnt have tags and once it did and the ones that did had tags that were silk but this tag was wooden and had a name and address. Through sheer luck and a lot of phone calls, they found the son of the owner of the sword. The officer who had to give it up. Tata hero modern norah. He was a japanese newspaper executive the nagasaki. Mr. Mr. Armed all wrote to him and told him that he wanted to give him back, the sword. Mr. How to more a came to the u. S. With his wife and two sons to receive a or back the sword back from or ville. The ceremony was packed and it was very emotional for everyone around. There was a writer Karen Stetson in minnesota who had helped arrange this. She writes about survivors of hiroshima nagasaki. She helped arrange us and i call karen two weeks after the ceremony asked our doing . She says i cant get any work done because i cant keep getting phone calls from people wanting to return swords. Carolina. Im a son of a world war ii veteran that was landed and anvil worked all way up to czechoslovakia. Seeing that nazis were using Young Children and old people at the end which killed a lot of americans as well. My father volunteered to be part of the european element of young soldiers. He was at that time about 21 year old staff sergeant. They went down to naples where they were building a troop of fleet ships. They kept them on board four nights. Then they release them, said a great bomb had been dropped upon japan. I certainly may not have been borne, but i have served 30 years in the military. I used to see a lot of people and ive helped a lot,. When i was stationed in new mexico, i met a couple of navajo code talkers which more shows should be talking about. The fact is that if there was no pearl harbor, there would be no issue about talking about that. Of course, japans Imperial Force was in china in the thirties. Joe thanks for your call. ,. Look at cspan. Org you can find plenty of information about that. Search navajo code talkers. Treasure trustees of the areas truman librarian institute. Youve also written a couple of books about your grandparents. Book dear harry love bass. Did you ever ask your grandmother about the bombing of hiroshima . No i did not. Again, and going back to whether i ask my grandfather or grandmother. When we saw them, they,. Granny and grandpa. We we saw them on family vacations. These were also vacations from school. The last thing i was looking for was another history lesson. I was out of school. My grandmother the same way. I didnt ask her about the bombings. That said, i dont think that my grandfather or my grandmother would certainly have told me anything differently than they wouldve told you or anyone in the audience. My father was remarkably open and consistent,. , in his views. There was nothing that family wouldve learned that the public would not have that either written or spoken. Let me just go back for two seconds to say to joe in wilmington. It was nice to hear from someone and wilmington since i lived there for 15 years for moving to chicago. I worked on the star news. It was in wilmington at the end of the day of ceremonies marking the end of the 50th year of the war. Thats when i first met that pacific war veterans. They were trying to get a hold of my mother they were trying to snag or sleeve and talk to her they didnt get her, the crowd moved on. My wife and i stayed behind last through something we can do for them both of these men had tears in their eyes. We asked them whats wrong . Nothing we just wanted to thank or. If their father hadnt dropped that ball we wouldnt be here. Pacific war veterans. I understand you encourage president obama to visit japan in 2016 why was that . Again in the interest of being open and honest about it. Decisions were made. Horrible decisions in a war. Dan carlson, historian and podcast or. I listen years ago to one of his podcast and one of the things he said struck. He said the atomic bombings were certainly an atrocity, but they were the last atrocity in a war full of atrocities. Was a horrible, devastating war. People make decisions in wartime that are fatal. To millions of people if were going but also to memorialize them with the other victims of hiroshima anne and what do you think president obama accomplished during that trip . I think he did exactly the right thing he laid a wreath he spoke to survivors, one of the survivors i believe he gave a hug to shaky morey. And mr. Morey was a survivor of the bombing but also spent about 25 years of his life and a lot of his money finally about to 12 americans that were in here she met they were prisoners think they were airman they were a mixed group who were in the Digital Police headquarters in downtown hiroshima. Nine of them died immediately from the explosion three survived, severely poison from radiation. They died within a day or two. But not much was known about what happened to them. And their fathers back in the states didnt know. Mr. Morey discovered a lot of people he was interviewing from other survivors for other stories were drawing pictures of americans in hiroshima and so he tracked down every lead and was able to find out what happened to the net both let the families know what happened to them but also demoralize them with the other victims in here. Shame about about ten minutes left and nikki in new jersey good morning id like to tell you. My father. Seven of my uncles were at world war ii. And they fought altogether. All the way to the pacific and all this. In fact my father was a normandy. Fought in the battle of the bulge. Walked into germany. Into a concentration camp in germany. He told me, even though he had fought two of the biggest battles in history, he never realized how terribly a human being can, treat another human being until he walked into that concentration camp. But this year, about the atomic bomb. I would like to put that in perspective. What the atomic bomb dropped on japan did was it ended a war. Where there was an estimated, 70 to 85 Million People were killed during that war. And those atomic bombs put an end to it. Thank you. Thank you mickey. Yeah again, the debate goes on. I find myself i think as i said earlier, in the middle of this. I cannot, will not tell a pacific war veteran that those bombs were not a good idea. They had been through so much already. And fought for their country, and had endured a lot. I also cant tell as survivor of hiroshima and nagasaki, that the bombs were a great idea. They too suffered. That is what i try to look at. Its the human suffering, the sacrifice on both sides. You have to look at the human stories, and understand what happened and what that means. Here is caroline isa talkative new york. Hello, i just want to tell another side. My father was an air corman in new guinea. I wont say anything negative about the japanese up today. But my father was in new guinea, i was in three different groups. And every Single Person but him was the only one who is left. He never talked about the war at all. When he got married to my mother, he used to get up in the middle of the night and have his arms around her neck. The only good job was a dead jet, and he was a tempting to kill a good gap. My father died at 56 years old because of it. And they have to realize, had they not dropped these bombs, we would still be in war. We were not fighting my father died and 76, the last year of his life he talked to me constantly about the war. I know a lot about it. This was protecting their god. This wasnt protecting the president , protecting their country. This was protecting their gods, and if we had not dropped those bombs we would still be in war today. Unfortunately. But my father died with severe posttraumatic stress disorder. Having a nervous breakdown, and died at the age of 56 because of all of this. Oh carole we will get a response. Clifton got a response thank you carole. You just said it yourself, you do separate the japanese of today from and you also have to separate japanese civilians in 1945 from Japanese Military. Certainly there was a wide range of emotion over the war. Among the japanese. There were the war who are all four finding to the last man. Committing suicide, going down fighting. And there were those that were brow beaten into that. Who just wanted to live their lives and have piece. They just wanted the war to be over i did a program in new york, some years ago. With xi gecko sophomore, who survived the bombing of hiroshima. She gecko was 12 years old, when the bomb exploded. She was badly burned. She came to this country in 1955, one of the hiroshima maidens for reconstruct of surgery. We were with a group of international students, and the time when questions came around, one of the students stood up and said i am chinese. What about you want sympathy and understanding from the bombings, what about the Japanese Military did to my people did to china. And she gecko said very quietly, we had no idea. We did not know what was going on. Certainly she didnt, some japanese. Did not everyone understood fully what japanese were doing in china. But you have a broad range of emotion on the war on both sides. The headline we showed you earlier from the Associated Press. Survivors marked a 75 under through the worlds first atomic attack. Mr. Daniel you visited in 2012 what was your initial reaction in going into that piece part in hiroshima . How was youre visit received by both the media and the public . My reaction, the initial reaction in both hiroshima and nagasaki stuck. It should not have been a surprise to me, but it was. Both cities, both peace parks, are very much like being in a church, or synagogue, or mosque. Its hollowed ground. Thousands of people died there, in hiroshima on the peace walk, their ashes are three feet down on the layer of the soil. One japanese survivor called its sad layer of soil, a layer of bone ash. You are on hollowed ground and you feel. It the survivors contribute to that through their kindness. There is a feeling in both hiroshima and nagasaki, a feeling of peace. Both cities are dedicated to peace. So that was my initial reaction, and that is what stuck. Overall, the reaction to my visit was positive. It was positive before we went, a couple of japanese journalist came to chicago and wrote positive articles about the visit. People were polite and kind, the japanese media was respectful. The overall positivity the one hitch, and i should have been expecting it. I got a question from the first interview that i did in tokyo, before we even went to hiroshima, the reporter got two questions in to the interview. And then said, have you come to apologize . As i said, it caught me off guard and caught me flatfooted. And i said no, this is not what it is about. It is about honoring the dead and listening to the living. And she kept rephrasing it. She said if you did not come to apologize, why bother . She kept rephrasing it my translator was half under chair getting ready to intervene and stop the interview because it was rude and the Japanese Point of view. I worried about that, question. All that afternoon at the event in tokyo university, all the way to hiroshima on the train. All that night i thought, am i just gonna wind up defending the apology question . Putting it off, doing this for the whole trip. I walked into the peace park next morning, throng reporters around the peace monument. Masahiro society came out of the phone, i had not seen him in two years. I had not seen him since we met in 2010. He came out of the throng and put his arms around me, and hugged me. And most of my worries evaporated at that point, because masahiro was reassuring me, showing me and showing the japanese people that we were in this together. Well go to bonnie next up in marion ohio. Yes. I had two uncles that were in world war ii. One got captured by the japanese, and him and part of his squad. They threw him down in a pit and covered him up. Every time they get out of the pit, japanese with take their boots and take him in the face and knock them back down. After they would come home, they would never talk about it and i found out that my moms first husband was one of the guys that helped drop the bomb on hiroshima. And when he got home, he died a few months later. Before he died he told i dont ever want to see that again. You dont want to see this in your lifetime. He said it was a very nasty look. Thats all i have to say. Thank you bonnie. Yes, there is again the last atrocity in a war full of atrocities. Let me ask you from this point on, what you have been doing and staying in contact with some of those victims. Some of the survivors and their families, does that were continue . It does not as intensely as it did it first, when i first came back. I spent four years working on and off with a nonprofit in new york called him is a japanese word for survivor. Bomb affected person. The nonprofit over a period of eight years, they brought survivors to speak to more than 30,000. High School Students in the new york city area. I worked with them for four years doing exactly that. One of the founders, kathleen sullivan, or robert king quiz, we get up and talk about the Current Nuclear arsenal. The 17,000 nuclear arsenals. If not all of them hundreds more times more powerful than the bombs who destroyed hiroshima nagasaki. Talk about how so many of them are on hair trigger alerts, still aim that world war targets. Both our government and the soviet are talking about modernizing the nuclear arsenal. We feel like we are on the edge of another arms race. At the same time, we have many countries working against nuclear proliferation. More than 120 countries have signed a treaty. Of banning Nuclear Weapons on their soil. But you have, you have this still going on. I spent four years talking to students, i would get up and tell us the reason im telling you now. I would introduced a survivor, here she would tell his or her story about the day of the bombing. Students were very receptive to that. High School Students can be tough to reach. They slouch in their chairs, they look at their phones. None of that was going on here. They were paying rapt attention, and afterwards, they wanted selfies. They wanted to talk to the survivors, they wanted hugs. And they got them. It was a very emotional and effective program. Lets see if we can get a call or two more, daryl and east point michigan. Good morning. Daryl michigan you are on the air all right were going to cameron to missouri, good morning. Hi, i wanted to say that could you do us a favor and take your phone off speaker. Its a little hard to hear you. I apologize. Is that better. Yes thats better. Okay. I wanted to say that fighting in the war has done something that we have done for years. Without war we cannot find peace, and recently these protests went on in america and we have been combatting this virus and looking back at our history, ive realized that maybe there is a time coming where we dont have to fight wars anymore. We can just come to peace and live in that piece. And not have to go back to fighting anymore. If we can come to that time, i think we would all be better off and we would not have to worry about which country is gonna nuke which country or what have you. Its nonsense. Its a big chaotic mess, we continue to fight wars all we are going to do is end up hurting each other or damaging our neighbors. Its not an effective way of living i believe. If you can hold your thought for a minute, i just want to see if we can get one more call from hawaii. This is such eco. I hope i pronounce your name properly. Thank you so much, its worth it. Ive been up from 3 00 in the morning to see this program. I am so happy to meet with you. The grandson of truman. I am a post war 1946. I just happen, two days ago, from nagasaki who is a professional photograph or, just passed away at age 96. He was also a survivor from the nagasaki bomb. He and my father were very very good friends with each other. My father also passed away several years ago. Mr. Tucker hereupons to weigh and im nearly wanted to see this program on nagasaki and the atomic bomb. Today we live in 2020. Artificial intelligence era. We have internet. What we need to know out of all of this tragic human killing each other war and covid, we should put an end to it. What we all have to do is learn to appreciate and study languages. If you can only communicate with each other and understand each other, the culture of understanding. Japanese has a long history from an the arrow 2000 years ago. We went to the samurai era and then modernization. Every time we do have this is epic change. We really appreciate you holding on the line. And calling from. Hawaii will get some last thoughts from our guest. Thank you such eco and thank you cameron. I know its nevada missouri not nevada i only know that because ive been there. For both of you, the story that brings to mind this she more here and it her son survived the bombing of hiroshima. Lived in caves a built in the mountainside. She lost her whole family, and lived under a bridge. Her sister was so sick that she committed suicide by stepping in front of a train after the war. She went through a lot. She tells her story, she speaks out in the name of peace and disarmament. She had i think the quote that sums up what cameron was saying and what subject was saying about war. She said very simply, i think peace, the basic idea of peace is to have some understanding of other peoples pain. And i think that is very true. Will Clifton Truman daniel it is been a pleasure to have you share some time with us on the 75th anniversary of hiroshima. Thank you so much for being