Transcripts For CSPAN3 Presidential Debates 1984 Vice Presidential Debate - Bush V. Ferraro 20240712

Thomas jeffersons correspondence and other papers be accessiblewill to scholars and the public. [applause] good evening. Good evening from the civic center in philadelphia, pennsylvania. I am the president of the league of women voters, sponsor of tonights Vice President ial debate between republican george bush and democrat Geraldine Ferraro. Our panelists for tonights debate are the National Correspondent for u. S. News world report, jack white, correspondent for time magazine, normal quarrels, correspondent for nbc news, and robert boyd, Washington Bureau chief for knightridder newspapers. , politicalocher correspondent for abc news, is our moderator. A few words about the order of the format. The order of questioning was determined by a toss of the coin. Congresswoman ferraro elects to speak last so Vice President bush will get the first question. The debate will be built upon a series of questions from the reporters on the panel. A reporter will ask a candidate a question, a followup question, then the same to the other candidate, then each candidate will get to rebut the other. The debate will be divided into two parts. There will be a section in the first one about domestic affairs, a second on Foreign Affairs. The manner of address was decided by the candidates, therefore it will be Vice President bush, congresswoman ferraro. We begin with john. John adams, the nations one of the nations first president , said today i am nothing, tomorrow i may be everything. I would like to ask him a Vice President bush, four years ago, you ran against mr. Reagan for the republican nomination. You disagreed with him on such a sea use as the equal rights amendment, abortion and you labeled his economic policies as voodoo. You apparently agree with him on every issue now. If you should be called upon to assume the presidency, would you follow mr. Reagans policies down the line or would you revert to your own ideas . Vice pres. Bush i dont think there is a great difference between my ideas and president reagans. One of the reasons i think we are an Effective Team is that i believe firmly in his leadership. He has really turned this country around. We agree on the Economic Programs. When we came into office, him inflation was 12. 5 percent, Interest Rates wiping out every single american, 21. 5 if you can believe it. Productivity was down, savings was down, there was despair. The leadership of the country told the people that there was a e out there. Alais this president turned it around and i have been with him every step of the way. Of course i would continue those types of programs that have brought america back. America is better off. People are going back to work. And why mr. Mondale cant understand there is a new enthusiasm in this country, that america is back, there is new strong leadership, i dont know. He has one answer to the problem, raise everybodys taxes. He looked into the lens and said in san francisco, he said im going to raise your taxes. He has had a lot of experience in that and he is going to do it. I remember a statement of Lyndon Johnsons when he was looking around, why his party people werent supporting him, he said, they painted their tails white and ran with the antelope area there are lots of democratic white tails running with the antelopes. Not one democrat introduced the mondale tax bill into the congress. Of course i support the president s Economic Program and i support him and everything else. Im not sure because of my concept of the vice presidency, that if i didnt, i would go doing what mr. Mondale has done with jimmy carter, jump away from it. I couldnt do that to Ronald Reagan. Now, next year, or any other time. I have too much trust in him. I have too much friendship for him. And i would feel very uncomfortable doing that. Some republicans have criticized mr. Mondale for now claiming he disagreed privately with jimmy carters decision to impose the grain embargo. Have you ever disagreed with any decision of the Reagan Administration in its inner circle, and following that up, where is your judgment, where does loyalty and unprincipled begin . Vice pres. Bush i own my then i o my judgment, him loyalty. You cant have the president of the United States out there looking over his shoulder, wondering whether his Vice President is going to be supporting him. Mrs. Erraroro has quite a few differences with mondale. They are different on busing. She voted to extend the grain embargo and he says he was against it. If they win, and i hope they dont, but if they win, she will have to accommodate some views but she will give him the same kind of loyalty that i am giving president reagan. We are not far apart on anything. I can walk into that oval office any time and give him my judgment and he might agree or he might not, but he also knows i wont be talking about it to the press or knifing him in the back by leaking to make me look good and complicate the problems of the president of the United States. Congresswoman, your opponent served in the house of representatives. He has been ambassador to the United Nations and to china, director of the Central Intelligence agency and no Vice President for four years. How does your three terms in the house stack up against experience like that . Rep. Ferraro let me first say i wasnt born at the age of 43 when i entered congress. I did have a life before that. I was a prosecutor for almost five years and the district attorneys office, and a teacher. It is not only what is on your paper resume that makes you qualified to run for or hold office. It is how you approach problems and what your values are. I think if one takes a look at my career, they will seek i level with people. I approach problems analytically, i am able to assess various fact with reference to problems, and i can make the hard decisions. I am intrigued when i hear Vice President bush talk about him supporting the Economic Program and how everything is going beautifully. I to recall when Vice President bush was running in the primary against president reagan and he called the program voodoo economics, and it was, and it is. We are facing massive deficits. This administration has chosen to ignore it. The president has failed to put forth a plan to deal with those deficits, and if everything if he believes everything is coming up roses, the Vice President should perhaps join me as i speak to people around the country. People in pennsylvania are not terribly thrilled with the economy because they are staring into the light of a closed plant because they have lost their jobs. People in ohio have stores that are boarded up because the economy is not doing well. It is not only industries that are failing, it is the new industries. In california they are complaining because they cant export hightech quality goods to japan and other countries. The people in the northwest, in washington and oregon, are complaining that what is happening in the Timber Industry , so things are not as great as the administration wants us to believe in their television commercials. My feeling, frankly, is that i have enough experience to see the problems, address them, and make the tough decisions and level with people with reference to these problems. Despite the historic aspects of your candidacy, how do you account for the fact that a majority of women according to the polls favor the reaganbush take over the mondaleferraro ticket . Rep. Ferraro i am not a believer in polls. Let me say further that what we are talking about our problems that are facing the entire nation. They are not just problems facing women. The issues in this campaign are the war and peace issues, the problems of deficits and trade deficits. We are facing 120 billion for a deficit in this country, facing problems of the environment. I think what we will be doing over the next several weeks, and i am delighted that the league is sponsoring these debates and now speak to the American Public and address the issues in a way like this, i think you will see a change. Vice president bush, you have one minute to rebut. Vice pres. Bush i was glad to get that vote of confidence from o on my mrs. Ferrar economic judgment. The other day, she was in a plant and she said to the workers, why are you voting, why are so many of you voting for the reaganbush ticket . There was a long, deathly science and she said, we delivered. For not blaming her, except the liberal voting record in the house. They delivered. They delivered 21. 5 percent Interest Rates. They delivered what they called malaise. They delivered Interest Rates off the charts. They delivered takehome pay checks that were shrinking and we delivered on commitment. People are going back to work. 6 million of them. And 300,000 jobs a month being created. That is why there was the deathly silence in that plant. They delivered the wrong thing. Ronald reagan is delivering leadership. Congresswoman, one minute rebuttal. Rep. Ferraro i think what i will have to do is start correcting the Vice President s statistics. There are 6 million more people , in the jobs, which is Prior Administration they created 10 million jobs. The housing Interest Rates ring this administration for housing for middleclass americans was 14. 5 . Under the Prior Administration, with all their problems, the average rate was 10. 6 . If you look at the number of People Living in poverty as a result of this administration, 6 Million People. 500,000 people knocked off disability. You can walk around saying things are great and if that is what we are going to be hearing, we have been hearing it on commercials, i expect that i will become a onewoman squad and we will start tonight. Congresswoman, i would like to ask about civil rights. You have in the past been a supporter of tuition tax credits for private parochial schools and constitutional amendments to ban bussing. Both of the measures opposed not only by your running mate by just about every educational and Civil Rights Organization in the country. Have you changed your position on either of those . To. Ferraro with reference the bussing vote i cast in 1979, both mondale and diagram the same goal, nondiscrimination. I just dont agree on the same direction he does on how to achieve it but i dont find any problem with that. I think that has been handled by the courts, not handled by congress and wont be handled by the white house. We just we both support nondiscrimination. To tax credits, i represent a district in queens that is 70 catholic. Let me say i have also been a great supporter of public somethingnd that is fritz and i feel strongly about. This administration over the past several years has gutted the Educational Programs available to our young people. It has attempted to knock out pell grants, moneys to young individuals who are poor and cant afford to go to college. The amountced by 25 of moneys going into College Education and by one third the amount of those going into secondary and primary schools. But Fritz Mondale and i feel strongly that if you educate your children, that is the effort and way you build up and make a stronger america. With civil rights you have to go beyond that. If you look at my record in congress, and mondales record in the senate and Vice President , we have strong civil rights records. This administration does not. It has come in, in the bob jones case come on the side of segregated academies. It came in and the grove city case on the side of discrimination against women, the handicapped and the elderly. In congress we just passed overwhelmingly the civil rights bill of 1984. This administration, the Republicancontrolled Senate killed it in congress. There is a real difference between how the mondaleferraro administration will addressable rights and the failure of this administration in that area. On affirmativeaction what steps should government take to increase representation of minorities and womens in the work women in the workforce and colleges and universities . Would you support quotas . Rep. Ferraro i do not support the use of quotas. Mr. Mondale and i feel strongly about affirmative action to correct inequities. We believe steps should be taken both through government and the Small Business administration. Forave supported setasides minority and womens businesses. That is positive. We dont feel that you are in any way hurting anybody else by reaching out with affirmativeaction to help those who have been disenfranchised. On the contrary, if you have a growing economy, if you create the jobs, if you allow for Small Business the opportunity with lower Interest Rates to reach there will be more than enough space for everybody and affirmativeaction is a positive way to deal with the problem of discrimination. Many critics of the administration say it is the most hostile to minorities in recent memory. Have you inadvertently encouraged that few by supporting tuition tax credits, the antibussing amendment, citing Bob Jones University and the case before the Supreme Court, your opposition to the Voting Rights act and so forth . Vice pres. Bush i think a record on civil rights is a good record. You mentioned the Voting Rights extension that was extended for the lost the longest period of time by president reagan. But we have some problems in attracting the black vote. I think our record deserves better. We have done more for black colleges than any Previous Administration. We favor enterprise zones. It has been blocked by tip oneill and the house of representatives. The liberals in the house blocked a new idea to bring jobs into the black communities across this country. Because it is not an old handout special federal spending program, it is blocked, a good idea. I would like to see that pride. We have brought more civil rights cases in the Justice Department than the Previous Administration by far. We believe in trying something new to help these black teenage kids, the minimum wage differential that says look, to an employer, hire these guys. And yes, they are willing to work for slightly less than the minimum wage. Give them job training in the private sector. We threw out the bill that jobst train people for that existed, sibley ramped them onto the government payroll. We put in the jobtraining act, new legislation that is helping blacks more and more. We think of civil rights as crime in your neighborhoods. For example, when crime figures go in the right direction, that is good. That is a civil right. Similarly we think of it in terms of equality the quality of life. That means Interest Rates. It is funny, mr. Mondale talks about real Interest Rates. The real Interest Rate is what you pay when you get out and try to buy a tv set or a car or do whatever it is. The Interest Rates, we left our office, when he left office, were 21. 5 . You are busting american families. We have a good record. We have it on civil rights legislation, minority setaside, help for black colleges and we have it in terms of an economy offering people opportunity and hope instead of despair. Along those lines, sir, many recent studies indicated that the poor and minorities havent really shared in the new prosperity generated by the current economic recovery. Was it right for your administration to pursue policies, economic policies that required those at the bottom of the economic ladder to wait for prosperity to trickle down from people who are much better off than they echo than they . Vice pres. Bush it is not trickling down. I am suggesting the way to work out of poverty is the real opportunity. In the meantime, the needy are getting more help. Human resource spending his way, way up. Aid for dependent children spending is up. Immunization programs are up. Almost every place you can point, contrary to mr. Mondale i have to be careful. Goes aroundhow he saying everything is bad, if somebody sees a silver lining, he finds a big black cloud out there. Whine on, harvest moon. There are lots of opportunities. Congresswoman, your rebuttal. Rep. Ferraro the Vice President says the president signed the Voting Rights act. That was after he did not support it while it was in the congress and the senate. It was passed despite his opposition and he did sign it because he was required to do so. In the civil rights cases he mentioned, a great number of cases they were forced they enforced, they were forced to do that and i am delighted the administration is following the law. [applause] be outse me, this will of my time, not yours. Knowing and cherishing the people of this city and knowing their restraint and diffidence about a motion, especially in a context in which this is not one, i beseech you, try to hold your applause. Sorry. Rep. Ferraro i have to correct in my 30 seconds left, the comment the Vice President made with reference specifically to a program like afdc. If you take afdc, food stamps, i will go down the line of poor peoples programs, those are the programs that suffered considerably under this administrations first budget cuts and those are the ones that, in the second term, the second part of their term, we were able to restore some of those terribly unfair cuts to the poor people of this country. Vice president bush . Vice pres. Bush maybe we have a factual, maybe we can ask the experts to go to the books. They will do it anyway. Spending for food stamps is way up. Under the Reagan Administration. Under the Reagan Administration, and i am not going to be found wrong on that. Im sure of my facts. We are trying to help, and i think we are doing a reasonable job, but we are not going to rest until every single american that wants a job, gets a job and until this prosperity and this recovery is benefiting many americans, benefits all americans. Bush, one ofdent the most emotional issues in this campaign has been the question of the separation of church and state. What are you views on the separation of church and state with regard to abortion and do you believe it was right for the archbishop of philadelphia to have a letter read in 300 five churches urging catholics to fight abortion with their votes . Vice pres. Bush i do believe in pluralism. I do believe in separation of church and state. I dont consider abortion a religious issue. I consider it a moral issue. I believe the archbishop has every right to do everything he wants in that direction, just as i never faulted Jesse Jackson from taking his message to the black pulpits across the country, just as i never objected when the nuclear arms, the Nuclear Freeze or the antinuclear people, many of those movements were led by priests. Suddenly, because a Catholic Bishop or an evangelist feel strongly on a political issue, people say it is merging of church and state. We favor, and i speak confidently for the president , we favor separation of church and state. We favor pluralism. Somebody says, you want to restore prayer in schools, you dont think it is right to prohibit a kid from praying in schools. For years, kids were allowed pray in schools. We dont think that is a merger of church and state, to have a nonmandatory, voluntary, nongovernment ordered prayer. Yet some are accusing us of injecting religion into politics. I have no problem with what the archbishop does and i have no problem with what the evangelists on the right to do and i have no problem with what the priests on the left do. It didnt bother me when during the vietnam war, much of the opposition to the government of a democrat and republican, was led by priests, encouraging people to break the law in the adage of the civil disobedience thing. Our position, separation of church and state, pluralism, so no little kid with a minority religion of some sort is going to feel offended or left out or uncomfortable. But yes, prayer in school, on a voluntary basis. It worked for many years until the Supreme Court ruled differently. And i am glad we got this question, because i think there has been too much said about religion in politics. We dont believe in denominationally moving in. Our side didnt raise the question about our president , whether he was a good christian or not. [applause] so that is our position. Separation of church and state, pluralism, respect for all. Vice president bush, four years ago we you would have allowed federal financing of abortions in cases of rape and in test as well as when the mothers life was threatened. Does your position now agree with that of president reagan, who sunday came close to saying abortion is murder . There has been, i have to confess, and evolution in my position. There has been 15 million abortions since 1973. And i dont take that lightly. There has been 1. 5 million this year. The president and i do favor a human rights amendment. I favor one that would have an exception for inset stand rape and he doesnt, but only for the life of the mother, and i agree with him on that. So my position has evolved but i would like to see the american who, faced with 15 million abortions, isnt rethinking their position. I support the president s position, and comfortably, from a moral standpoint. Oh you believe it is akin to murder . Vice pres. Bush i support the president s position. Congresswoman, what are your views on the separation of church and state with regard to abortion . Do you believe it was right for the archbishop of philadelphia to have those letters read in the pulpits and urge the voters to fight abortion with their vote . Rep. Ferraro i believe sincerely and separation of church and state. Taking from the historical viewpoint, if you go back to the 1600s when people came here, they came to this country to escape religious persecution. That is the same reason why people come here today, in the in0s to escape nazism and 1984, when they can escape communism so they can come here and practice their religion. Our country is founded on the principle that our government should be neutral as far as religion is concerned. What has happened over the past several years, and frankly i am not going to let you lay on me the intrusion of state politics into religion or religion into politics by my comments with reference to the president s policies. It started in 1980 when this administration was running for office and the reverend Jerry Falwell became very involved in the campaign. What happened in the past four years has been, i think, a real fudging of the line between separation of church and state. The actions of the archbishop, i not only a they have right but a responsibility to speak up. Although i have been speaking up, i feel they have a responsibility to do so and i have no problem with it, no more than i did with the priest who marched in vietnam, and when Martin Luther king marched in the civil rights marches. I have no problem with them speaking up. I think they have an obligation as well as a right. What i do have a problem with is when the president of the United States gets up in dallas and addresses a group of individuals and says to them, anybody who doesnt support his constitutional amendment for prayer in schools is intolerant of religion. There are numerous groups who schools,port prayer in numerous religious groups. Are they intolerant of religion . Is that what the president is saying . I checked when i am told the reverend falwell has been told he will pick two of our Supreme Court justices. That is going a little bit far. Oft is more than a fudging the line, it is a total intrusion and i think it is in violation of the constitution. [applause] as a devout catholic, the trouble is, many of your Church Leaders disagree with you. Do you feel you are being treated unfairly by the Catholic Church . Rep. Ferraro i did not come to my position on abortion very lightly. I am a devout catholic. When i ran to for congress in 1978, i met with a bishop and i spoke to him about my personal feelings that i would never have an abortion but i wasnt sure if i were ever to become pregnant as a result of a rape, if i would be that selfrighteous. He said, that is not good enough. You cant support that position. I said ok, that is my religious view. I will except the teaching of the church but i cant impose my views on someone else. A public official i wrote i represent everyone in my district, not just catholics. If i cant practice my religion and do my job properly, i will resign my job. Your rebuttal . Vice pres. Bush i respect that statement, i truly do. We have a difference on a moral question on abortion. Mondale keeps talking in the debate, and it has come up here, about mr. Falwell. I dont know where this could have come from with mr. Falwell picking a Supreme Court justice. Ronald reagan has made one superb, outstanding, the only one he has made come appointment to the Supreme Court. That was sandra day oconnor. We still have respect for him, but he opposed it. I hope this lays to rest this lender against the president. We want justices who will interpret the constitution, not legislate. Congresswoman ferrero, your rebuttal. Rep. Ferraro i still find it difficult to believe. Because in this platform the Republican Party planned, passed in dallas. One of the things they did was said that the position on abortion would be a litmus test only for Supreme Court justices but for other federal justices. The nest questioning, mr. Boyd. , ike many of you i am going to prolong the ordeal. Congresswoman ferrero, you disagree with the rule that says that a candidate must report the income or assets of his or her spouse if you get any benefit from them. Your husbands tax return shows that you did benefit because he paid the mortgage on your property taxes on your homes. The House Ethics Committee is examining this question but it will not report its findings until after the election. Would you be willing to ask that committee which is controlled by democrats hurry up its work and report before the election. Rep. Ferraro let me say that i already did that. It recall, i stand stand for about one hour and 45 minutes speaking to 200 reporters on august 21, which is the day after i was required to file my financial statement. I sat for as long as i had questions on the issue and i believe that they were satisfied. I filed more information than any other candidate for National Office in the history of this country. Not only did i agree to file my tax returns, after a little bit of prodding my husband also agreed to file his with not only the Ethics Committee but the fec , but the action that you are speaking about with the Ethics Committee was started by a rightwing legal organization, foundation knowing that i would have to that there would be an automatic inquiry. We have filed the necessary papers. I have asked them to move along. Unfortunately, that has i believe people in session today. I do not know if they will move. Quite frankly, i would like for that to be taken care of anyway because i want to clear it up. 21since that famous august press conference on your family finances, you filed a new report with the Ethics Committee, and this shows that your previous reports were full of mistakes and omissions. For example, you failed to report about 12 trips that were paid for by special interest groups. Cases, your18 holdings were misstated. Do you think it showed that leadership or attention to duty to blame all this on your sloppy accountant . Rep. Ferraro it was true i hired accountant and accountant who had been with our family for well over 40 years. She was filling out the forms. I did not spend time with them. I just gave her my Tax Information and he did it. I have to tell you what we have done since. I have hired a more accountant. Ive spent a lot of money having him go through all of those extra ethics forms and he will be doing my taxes. Over the next eight years while we are in the white house and the American Public can be sure it is all going through. , someoneing to the irs in your bracket normally pays about 28 of his income. Know what you did was perfectly legal, but do you think it is fair it is there something wrong with our tax laws that allow such large deductions for wealthy taxpayers . Vice pres. Bush what that figure anyway i kind of like the way that ms. Ferraro reported, because they reported federal taxes, state and local taxes. It is a clear picture. That year, i happened to pay a lot of state and local taxes, which as you know are deducted from the other and so i looked it up the other day. 42 of our i think gross income in taxes. Mr. Mondale the other night took what i shall be honest i thought it was a cheap shot at me, and we did a little looking around to say about this. 1981 tax return. It may have been released, it may be my opponent knows. He also made a reference that troubled me very much. She started talking about my chauffeur. I am driven to work by the secret service. So is ms. Ferraro. So is mr. Mondale. They protected his life for our four years and know they have done a beautiful job. They save the life of the president of the United States. I thought that was a cheap shot telling the American People to try to divide class, rich and poor. But the big question is not is doingisses ferraro well. I think they are doing pretty well. And i know barbara and i are doing well. And it is sure that mr. Mondale is doing well with a Million Dollars for income. But the question really is to get through this disclosure, is the tax cut fair . Are people getting a fair break. The answer is rich are paying 6 more on taxes. And the poor are getting a better break, those lower and middle income people that have borne the burden for a long, long time. So yes i favor. I have always disclosed this year i had my taxes and everything i own in a blind trust, so blind in the president s where i didnt even sign my tax return. They need to change the trust. The trust has been revealed and i was glad to see that i had paid 42 of my gross income in taxes. [applause] please. Mr. Vice president , and how can you claim that your home is in maine for tax purposes, and at the same time your home is in texas for voting purposes . Vice pres. Bush i am really a texan, but i have more than one house. Every taxpayer is allowed what he sells one house at a buys another house to get the rollover. I note that she said that she has a new good accountant. I would like to get his name and phone number, because i think i paid too much in the way of , legaland residence residence is very different than a house. They say you are living in the Vice President house. Therefore you do not get i have got problems with the irs, and so do a lot of people out there. I think i paid too much, nothing ethical. I would like to get some money back. Congressman ferrero, your rebuttal. Rep. Ferraro i warn you, he is expensive. I think the question is whether or not the tax cuts and of the tech system currently our government uses is fair. I think the tech system is unfair but it is not something we can address in the short term. The tax cuts Vice President bush and i got three years ago that this president gave out, that is not fair. Over 200 thousand dollars, you have a 25,000 tax cut. May have gotten between and if you made less than 10,000, you suffered a loss of more than 400. That is not fair. Not only is it not unfair, but economically it has nearly destroyed this country, the tax code over a five year. Is oneod of time, that of the reasons we are facing this enormous deficit. Mr. Vice president. Vice pres. Bush i think i have said all i wanted to say. I do not fully address the question. In the house of representatives were a couple of terms. I led the fight for disclosure. I believe in it. Before i went into this job, i disclosed everything we had. We did not have any private corporations, but i disclosed absolutely everything. Arthur anderson made out and assets and liabilities statement that went further than any other one and to protect the public interest, we went into this blind trust. I believe in a blind trust because i believe a public official ought not to know whether he is going to benefit directly or indirectly by some holding he might have or something of that nature. I support full disclosure. Thank you. That ends the part of this debate devoted to dumbest affairs. We will not turn to Foreign Affairs. Vice president bush, since your administration has come to power, the president is threatened to start a response against terrorism, yet numerous attacks have continued in lebanon and the middle east. Who is to blame . What can be done to stop it . Vice pres. Bush terrorism is very, very difficult to stop, and i think Everybody Knows that. We had ambassadors killed into don and lebanon a long time ago sudan and lebanon a long time ago. When you see the israeli building in lebanon after the death of our marines, you see that hit by terrorism, the israelis with all of their experience fighting terrorism, you know it is difficult. Ani with his ham radical islam resorting to governmentsponsored terrorism, it is very difficult. The intelligence business can have a good job, and i am always one that defends the cia. I believe we ought to strengthen it and i believe we still have the best foreign intelligence business in the world, but it is a very difficult to get the Source Information that you need to go after something as shadowy as International Terror. There was a difference between iran and what happened in lebanon. In iran you had a Government Holding a u. S. Embassy, the government sanctioning the takeover of that embassy by those students. The government negotiating with the United States government for their release. In lebanon and the terror that happened at the embassy, you had the government there that wants to help fight against terrorism, but the cause of the melee in the middle east that is there today and has been there yesterday on the day before as everyone knows, it is a very different thing. What we have got to do is use the best security possible. I do not think you can go assigning blame. The president is the best i have ever seen at accepting that. He has been wonderful about that. I think fairminded people that really understand International Terror knows that it is hard to guard against, and the answer then it really lies in the middle east and terrorism happening all over the world is a solution to the palestine question. Reaganhe umbrella of the september 1982 initiative. That will reduce terror, not eliminate it. Mentionedhomani why isnt your administration done something to take action against arab states that fomented this kind of terrorism . Vice pres. Bush what we have done is to support arab states that went to stand up against International Terror, quite different. We believe supporting without jeopardizing the security of israel in any way because they are our one strategic ally in and the area, the one democracy, and our relations with them have never been better. We believe in reaching out to gcc, gulf cooperative counsel states and helping them with defensive weapons to guard against International Terror or radical islam perpetuated by komani, and because we did that and the saudis chopped out a couple of those intruding airplanes, we have helped keep the peace in the persian gulf. Callngresswoman ferrero that you and the former Vice President have criticized the president over the bombings in lebanon. What would you do to prevent attacks . Rep. Ferraro let me first say that terrorism is a global problem. Let me say secondly that it mr. Bush as referred to the embassy that was held in iran. I was at the white house in january 1981 when those hostages, all 52 of them came home alive. It was at that time president reagan gave a speech welcoming them home. Americans were so excited to see them back, but what he said was the United States has been embarrassed for the last time. They will stand tall and if this ever happens again, there will be swift and immediate steps taken to address the wrong that our country has founded. Suffered. Beirutl 1983, i was in and visited the ambassador of the embassy. Two weeks later, that embassy was bombed. At that time, take a look at the crazy activities of terrace. You cannot blame that on anybody. They are going to do two things. The following october, there was another bombing that took place at the Marine Barracks where there were 242 young men killed. Right after that bombing occurred, there was a Commission Set up, and that commission did a study of its security arrangements around where marines were sleeping and found that there was negligence, they did not have robert gates up proper gates, proper precautions to stop this truck from coming in. The commission issued a report and president reagan got up and said i take responsibility. We all waited for something to be done when he took responsibility. Last month we had our third bombing. The first embassy, there was no gate up. The second time, the gate was open. The third time, the gate was not installed, and what was the president s reactions. The security arrangements were not in yet. The marines guarding it were left to go away and there were other people guarding the embassy. The president said i assume responsibility. I would like to know what that means. Are we going to take proper precautions before we put americans in situations where they are in danger or are we going to walk away during our arms up in the air, quite a reversal from the first time. Is this president going to take some action . Quite some democrats cringe at the word spying and covert activity. Do you believe they have a legitimate role in countering terrorist activity . Rep. Ferraro i believe they have a legitimate role in gathering information. The cia had given information to our administration with a reference to the actual threats that embassy was going to be bombed. It was not that the cia was at fault. There is a legitimate reason for the cia to be in existence and that is to gather information for our security. When i see the cia doing things like they are doing in Central America, supporting a covert war, i do not support that activity. Protect ourhere to government, not to subvert other governments. Vice president bush. Vice pres. Bush i think i just shed mrs. Ferrero said would do away with all covert action. That has serious ramifications communityntelligence knows. Sometimes it is quite support for friend. I believe that when there. Let me help you with the. For between iran and lebanon. Iran, we were held by a foreign government. Wantonnon, you had a terrorist action where the government opposed it. We went to lebanon to give peace a chance, stop the bombing of civilians in beirut, to remove 13,000 terrorists in lebanon, we did. We saw the formation of a government that rested conciliation. They gave peace a chance, and our allies were with us, the british, the french, and the italians. Congresswoman ferrero. Rep. Ferraro let me say first of all that i almost resent your patronizing attitude that you have to teach me about Foreign Policy. I have been a member of congress for six years. I was there with the embassy was held hostage in iran and i have been there and seen what has happened in the past several months of your administration. Secondly, please do not categorize my answers either. Leave the interpretation of my answers to the American People who are watching this debate, and let me say further, that no one has ever said those young men were killed through the negligence of this administration and others ever died in shame. No one who has a child who is 19 or 20 years never say that about the loss of anyone elses child. Mr. White. [laughter] [applause] congresswoman ferrero, you have repeated the city would not want your son to die for it i cause, but recently a running mate mr. Mondale has said he may become necessary to conduct a military located on nicaragua. Under what circumstances would you advocate the use of military force in Central America . Rep. Ferraro i would advocate the use of force when it is necessary to protect the security of our country, protect our security interests, or protect our people or protect the interests of our friends and neighbors. When president i am jumping the gun a bit, when mr. Mondale referred to the quarantine of Central America, a country in Central America, what he is referring to was a last resource resort after all other means of attempting to settle that region had been exhausted. Quite frankly, now what is being done by this administration is americanizing of a regional conflict and moving it militarily instead of promoting the process, which is the process that is in place with the support of mexico and colombia and panama and venezuela. Instead of supporting the process, our administration has been supporting covert activities to keep that revolution going in order to overthrow the sandinista government. In el salvador, it is not pushing the head of the government to move toward corrections, civil rights, human rights problems that existed there, and now this administration seems befuddled by the fact that nicaragua is moving to participate in the process, and el salvador is reaching out to the gorillas in order to negotiate a peace. What a mondale and i feel about the situation down there is that we should do it deal first through negotiation. Force is not a first resort, but a last resort in any instance. A followup please. Many times in its history, the United States is going to war in order to defend freedom. Does your answer mean that you would be willing to forgo the use of military force even if it meant the establishment of a soviet pact dictatorship so close to our own borders . Assume you are speaking about the government of nicaragua. Work with that government to achieve a pluralistic society. They have elections coming up on november 4. I think we have to work with them to achieve a peaceful solution to bring about a pluralistic country. I am not willing to live with a that could be a danger to our country. I would see that our country would be there putting pressure ofneighboring countries honduras, costa rica, el salvador to promote the kind of society we can live with in this country. Vice president bush, both cuba and nicaragua are reported to be making extensive preparations to defend themselves against an american invasion, which they claim could come this fall and even some of your democratic opponents have suggested the Administration May be planning a december surprise it a vision. Can you tell us under what circumstances a reelected administration would consider force in Central America or the caribbean . Vice pres. Bush we do not think we would be required to use force. Me point out there are 2000 cuban military and 7500 socalled cuban advisors and nicaragua. There are 55 American Military and el salvador. I went down to speak to the comidantes and el salvador and told them that they had to move with the president of el salvador to respect human rights. They have done that. I am not saying it is perfect, but the difference between el salvador and nicaragua is like the difference between night and day. El salvador went to the polls. Was elected by 70 of the people in a certifiably free election. In nicaragua, you have something different. You have a marxistleninist group talking democracy. They have aborted their democracy. They have eliminated the holy father, lucked out on the only press organization there, censoring the press. They have not had any human rights at all. They will not permit free elections. Mr. Cruz who was to be the only viable challenger to the sandinistas went down there and found that the ground rules were so unfair that he could not wage a campaign. Wonder country is devoid of human rights. The other is struggling to perfect their democracy. We do not like it went nicaragua exports its revolution or serves as a conduit for supplies coming in from such democracies as north korea, bulgaria, the soviet union, and q to destabilize el salvador. We are concerned about that because we went to see this trend for democracy continue. There have been Something Like 13 countries since we have come in and move toward the democratic route. Grenada is not unrelated. I have a big difference with mrs ferrero on that. We gave those countries a chance. We save those lives, and mo student said they were in jeopardy. Grenada was a proud moment because we stood up for democracy. Weapons,of nuclear there is not that kind of a threat. It is mr. Mondale they propose the quarantine, not Ronald Reagan. [applause] countrysring this long respect for the role of international law, it wasnt right for the United States to be involved in harming the min ers of nicaragua and similarly allowed the world court to not adjudicate. Vice pres. Bush i support what we are doing. It was supported by congress under the law. My only regret is that the aide for the contras, those people that are fighting, we call them Freedom Fighters. They want to see democracy perfected in nicaragua. My understand from this assault on covert action that nowhere in the world would we do something that was considered just off base when mrs. Ferrero said she would never support it, which he never supported if the violation of human rights was so great and support was necessary for Freedom Fighters. Yes, we are for the contras. Everyone who is not for this, everyone who wants to let the sandinista government prevail just like castro did, the. Ontras are not less than 5 of the contras. Upported some osha samosa these are people that support human rights. Yes we should support them. Youngest woman for her congresswoman ferrero. Rep. Ferraro i had an opportunity to speak to the contras after being in nicaragua and el salvador. Let me say the situation as it exists now because of this administrations policies are not getting better. We are not moving toward a more secure area of the world. The number of troops the sandinistas have accumulated has 50,000. Om 12,000 to the number of shall advisors has also increased. Mining,t support the the horrors in nicaragua. Congress did not supported and as a matter of fact just this week, congress voted to cut off covert aid to nicaragua unless a request is made and there is evidence of need for it and Congress Approves it. The covert activities which i opposed in nicaragua, those cia covert activities in that specific country are not supported by the congress and the majority of people throughout this country. Vice president bush. Vice pres. Bush well, i would simply like to make the distinction again between those countries that are searching for and a handful of countries that have violated human rights undergoing the ortega, thee, avoweds is in about marxist. They do not believe in the church, free elections, all the values we believe in. It is hours of our policy to support the democracy there and when you have Freedom Fighters that want to perfect that revolution and go the democratic route, we believe in giving them support. We are for negotiation. Three dollars out of every four dollars we sent down there as bid for economic aid, and to support the people chance to eat and live and to and enjoy life. You would not get that from listening to mr. Mondale. Bush, the lastnt three republican administrations , eisenhower, nixon, and ford, none of them met with the soviets and got agreements on arms control. The soviets have not changed that much. Can you tell us why president reagan has not met with soviet ministers at all and only met remiko. Eign minister vice pres. Bush i can. You mentioned the meeting. There have been three separate soviet leaders, mr. Brezhnev and now chin . Chenyeko. The soviets and not been willing to talk. We are the ones that went to table the table at inf. We had a moral proposal. Ban an entire generation of Nuclear Weapons and if you will not do that, do not leave your allies in europe in a monopoly position, the soviets with 1200 of these things in lines with none. We did not think that was the way to keep the peace. The first thing the president did when he came into office was a proposal to make the destabilization of weapons. When the soviet said we do not like that proposal, we said we would be more flexible. I went to geneva and it laid on the table a treaty to ban all chemical weapons. We said, look, lets come together. You come over here and see what we are doing. We will go over there and see what you were doing. Lets save the kids of this world from chemical weapons, a proposal to get rid of all of them, the soviets, no, no. They are not even willing to tell us the base. How many troops they have . We had that agreement with them on the hotline, but the quartermondale made an agreement, but the democratic senate, they were a democratic administration. The senate would not even ratified the agreement. It was flawed, unverifiable, and it was not good. Our president wants to reduce, not just to stop, reduce dramatically Nuclear Weapons and when the soviets know they will have the strong president to deal with and when this new administration, giving more than a few months in office can solidify his position, then they will talk. If they think the opposition are going to give up the they may just what it out for four more weeks. Who knows . You were once quoted as saying a nuclear war is winnable . Is that still your belief and if not under what condition would you consider it winnable . Vice pres. Bush i did learn that when i was director of Central Intelligence. I do not leave any disagreement is based on that concept, but i agree with the president. It should never be fought. Nuclear weapons it should never be fought with, and that is our approach. Therefore, lets encourage the soviets to come to the table. I wish everybody could have seen that one. The president , given all of these nuclear meetings, excellent, right on top of that subject matter, and i bet gre minko went back to the administration and said this president is calling the shots. We better move. It is in the interest of the soviet union to make it, just as it is in the interest of the United States. We are not deterred by rhetoric. I have lived in a communist country. It is not rhetoric that decides agreement, it is selfinterest. Youongresswoman ferrero, and mr. Mondale are for a verifiable Nuclear Freeze. Maycrat state verification not be possible. I would you verify such agreement and make sure the soviets are not cheating . Rep. Ferraro let me say first of all i do not think there is any issue more important in this campaign that the issue of war and peace. Roosevelt oneor hundredth birthday. Let me quarter. It is not enough to want peace, you must believe in it. It is not enough to believe in it, you must work for it. This administrations policies have indicated quite the opposite. A vicet time i heard president bush blamed the fact that they did not meet with the soviet leader, and this is the first president in 40 years not to meet with the soviet counterpart, he said the reason was because there are three soviet leaders in the past three years. I got a computer printout. Leaderses of the world the soviet leaders have met with, and they are not little people. Germany,nce, and of and the president of cyprus. Five people soviet leaders have managed to meet with and somehow they could not be with the president of the United States. Withdition to not meeting the soviet counterpart, this is the first president since the start of negotiating arms control agreements who has not negotiated an arms control agreement. To everyen opposed single one that every other president has agreed with. Including ford and nixon. Let me just say with reference to the Vice President s comments about the content and desire of the United States in this administration, the soviet union did walk out of the talks, i agree, but it seems to me 1982 when the administration presented its proposal that it was not a realistic proposal and that is a comment that was made by secretary hagel after he left office. It dealt with landbased nuclear missiles, which is where soviets had the bulk of their missiles. Was, at believe it their own negotiator came out with a proposal which would have limited the number of nuclear arms in europe. At that proposal was turned down by the administration, a proposal presented by its own administrator. I am delighted they met with mr. Greminko, but they had that opportunity and 1981 and 1982 as well. Congresswoman, i have to impose a limit on you. Vice president bush. Vice pres. Bush i think there is white a difference between the leader of cyprus and the leader of the free world and Ronald Reagan. The soviet union will meet with a lot of different people. We have been very close touch cole, andicheron, mr. Others that have let with the soviet union. That is different the meeting with the president of the United States. The soviet say we will have a meeting when we think there can be progress. I would like to correct my opponent on the walk in the woods. It was the soviet union unwilling to discuss the walk in the woods. There were the one that gunned it down first and the record is clear on that. Mentioned the inflexibility on our position on strategic arms. We offered first to get rid of theof those to reduce f18s at all of those weapons. We said if that is not good enough, there is flexibility. That is an important point in terms of negotiations. I rob you ofman, your rebuttal. You will have two minutes to rebut. Rep. Ferraro you robbed me of my followup. Congresswoman ferrero, most polls show americans feel that republicans more than the democrats are better able to keep the u. S. Out of war. We have had four years of relative peace under president reagan. How can you convince the world would be a safer place under cartermondale. Rep. Ferraro you have to look at the current situation. We have 50,000 nuclear warheads. We are building at the rate of five or six a day between us. We have been doing that since this administration came into office. You can look at what they have done and recognize that they will not do much in the future. Do we continue to build, because an arms race does not lead to anything, another arms race and that is it. Vice president mondale is indicated what he would do first of all is contact his soviet counterpart and set up an annual summit meeting. You cannot start negotiating until you start talking. Secondly, he would issue a challenge in the name of temporary, mutual, verifiable testing into halt thatir, the atmosphere would respond with a challenge from the soviet union. We hope to sit down and negotiate a treaty. In 1960. Done you have another minute. Rep. Ferraro that would give us the opportunity to negotiate a treaty. That was done in 1960 by president kennedy, 1963. He issued a challenge to the soviet union. He said we will not test in the atmosphere if you will not. They did not. In two months, they sat down and negotiated a treaty. We do not have to worry about that type of testing. It can be done. It will be done if you have the will to do it. Verifiable, and it is a challenge. Once that challenge is not met, we would continue testing as well. Series of questions on Foreign Affairs from mr. Boyd. Congresswoman ferrero, you have had little or no experience in military matters, and yet one day you might find yourself commanderinchief of the armed forces. How can you convince the American People at a potential enemy that you would know what to do to protect this nations security and do you think the soviets might be tempted to take advantage of you simply because you are a woman . Rep. Ferraro are you saying that i would have to have fought in a war in order to love peace . [applause] i am not saying that. You know what i asked. Rep. Ferraro what happens is when you try to equate whether i have had military experience, that is the natural conclusion. As having to say he would have to be black in order to despise racism, that you would have to be female in order to be offended by sexism. That is not so. If you take a look at where i have been both in congress and where i intend to go, the type of person that i am i think would be at the people of this country can rely upon the fact that i would be a leader. I do not think the soviet union for one minute to make a determination on what i would do if i am ever in a position to have to do something with reference to the soviet union. Quite frankly, i am prepared to do whatever is necessary to secure at this country and to make sure that security is maintained. Unionly, if the soviet ever believed they could challenge the United States with ,ny Nuclear Forces or otherwise they would be assured that they would be met with swift, concise, and certain retaliation. Let me say one other thing though. The most important thing i think as a leader is what one has to yous get to the point where were not put into that position, and the way you get to that fromion of moving away having to make a decision on force or anything else is by moving toward arms control. That is not what has been done over the past four years. I think you should take a look at the failures of this administration. That would have to be number one. I will not put myself in that position as the leader of this country. I will move immediately to arms control negotiations. For my followup, i will borrow a lead from the sunday night debate and sq what is the single most important question you would like to ask your opponent here on Foreign Policy . I do not have a single most important question. I guess i have a concern not only as a Vice President ial candidate but as a citizen. My concern is that we are not doing anything to stop the arms race, and it seems to me if we keep talking about military inferiority, which we do not have, we are at a comparable level with the soviet union, our joint chiefs of staff said they would Never Exchange our military power for theres. I guess the thing i would want is a commitment that soon they will do something about making this a safer world for all of us. Bush, foursident years ago president reagan insisted that it military buildup would bring the soviets to negotiate seriously. Since then we have spent almost 1 trillion on defense but the soviets are still building their military forces as rapidly as we are and there are negotiations. It was the president s original strategy wrong . Vice pres. Bush i think his strategy was not only correct but is correct. Came intohen we office, the American People recognized that we had slipped into positions of inferiority on various things. Some of our planes were older than the pilots. Ships that could not go out to had a major problem with the military. The morale was not so good either. We have had to strengthen the military and we are well on the way to getting that job done. America is back in terms of military strength, our ability to deter aggression and keep the peace. All the same time, we have made proposals and proposals and proposals, sound proposals on reducing Nuclear Weapons. Strategic arms reduction talks were good proposals at the soviets left the table. Then your immediate Nuclear Force talks the intermediate Nuclear Force talks were sound talks and i wish the soviets had continued. The chemical weapons treaty was our initiative, not the soviets and we wish they would seek a new so that everybody would know that the government the other side was keeping its word. It would reduce the level of terror. Viennatalking to them in about conventional force reduction. We have talked to them about human rights. Andropov andth mr. R. Ternium chernyenko the suppression of soviet jews is absolutely intolerable. Because this that president has been strong and because we addressed the imbalances and i think we are close to having that job done, the soviets are more likely to make a deal. Treaty whenmade a we thought we were going to deploy and abm system. Once they realize they will have this strong, principal president to negotiate with, strong leadership with demonstrable flexibility on arms control. , mr. Will give you a chance Vice President , to ask a question you would like to ask of your opponent. Vice pres. Bush i have no questions asked of her but i would like to use the time. Let me put it this way. I do not have any questions, but we are so different, the reaganbush is so different from the cartermondale administration that the American People love the clearest choice. It is the question of going back to the field ideas of the past, inflation, despair, malaise, no leadership, blaming the American People for field leadership or another option, keep this recovery going onto it benefits absolutely everybody, peace at prosperity. Abroad, i would like to talk on those i would like for her to talk on those things. Rep. Ferraro i think the Vice President s comment about the cartermondale administration really typifies this administration. The administration looks backwards, not forwards. I have always been tickled by their comments on human rights. The soviet union in 1979 allowed 51,000 people to emigrate because in large measure this administrations policies over the last four years. That is not a great record on human rights. This Administration Spent 1 trillion on defense but it is not gotten 1 trillion of national security. Vice president bush, your rebuttal. Vice pres. Bush no rebuttal. We then can go to the closing statements. Each closing statement will be four minutes in length. We go to the Vice President. Vice pres. Bush in three weeks, the American People will be faced with a choice, the clearest waste and some 50 years, and the choices do we move forward with strength and prosperity, or do we go back to disrespect . Spair, Ronald Reagan and i have put our trust in the American People. We have moved power away from washington, d. C. And put it back with the people. We are putting pulling together. Neighborhoods are safer because crime is going down. Your sons and daughters are doing better in school. There is a new opportunity lying out there in the future, science, technology, and space Offering Technology to everybody. Abroad, there is new leadership and respect, and Ronald Reagan is clearly the strong leader of the free world, and i will be honest with you. With a joy to serve president who does not apologize for the United States of america. Mr. Mondale, on the other end, as one idea. Go out and tax the American People and repeal indexing to wipe out the one rejection does at the lower end of the economic scale have to protect them from being rammed into higher and higher tax brackets. We owe our country too much to go back to that approach. I would like to Say Something to young people. I started a business. I know what it is to have a dream and have a job and work hard to employ others and to participate in the american dream, and some of you out there are finishing high school or college and some of you are starting out in the working place. We want for you, and greatest americasthat is greatest gift, and that is opportunity. I did serve in combat. , scared todown death. I saw friends die, but that heightened my convictions about peace. It is absolutely essential that we guarantee young people they will not know the agony of war. Gift, opportunity and peace. We have unfinished business. We must continue to go ahead. At the world is too complex to go back to vacillation and weakness. We have too much going on to go back to the failed policies of the past. The future is too bright not to give it our best shot. Together, we can go forward and lift america up to meet her greatest dreams. Thank you very much. [applause] thank you very much. , you will of equity be allowed applause at the end of your closing statement. Rep. Ferraro i hope that somebody wants to applaud. Being the candidate for Vice President of my party is the greatest honor i have ever had, by that is not an achievement for Geraldine Ferraro as i go across this country with women throughout the country. I wouldnt be standing here in france mondale did not have the courage in my party did not stand for the values it does, the values of fairness and equal opportunity. Those values make our country ofong, and in the future this country is what this election is all about. For the last two months i have been traveling all across the country talking to people about the future. I went to kentucky and spoke to house family eddie is worried about the deficit and how high Interest Rates are going to affect his job. I see young parents saying what are we going to do to stop this nuclear arms race. Ohio 1. 5 weeks, ago and i sat with the allen family who lived next door to a toxic dump and they are very concerned those toxicants are seeping into the water the people drink. Those people love this country and are patriotic. That is not the patriotism you are seeing in the commercials that you watch these days. There patriotism is not only a pride in the country but a pride in this country that is Strong Enough to meet the challenges of the future. For 8. 5 Million People unemployed in this country and we will make this economy stronger and that will be a patriotic act. We will reduce the deficit, cut Interest Rates. The president does not believe that by that is so. Young people can buy houses. That is profamily, and that will be a patriotic act. Educate our children. They will be able to compete in the World Economy and that is a patriotic act. We stop the arms race. We make this a safer, saner world and that is a patriotic act. When we keep the peace, young men do not die, and that is a patriotic act. Those are the keys to the future, and who can be the leader for the future. When Walter Mondale was attorney general of minnesota, he led the fight for a man who could not afford to get justice because he could not afford a lawyer. Keephe was in the senate, fought for child nutrition programs. He wrote the fair housing act. She even investigated the concerns and abuses of Migrant Workers. Why did he do that . No one had ever heard of the man without a lawyer. Children do not vote, and of Migrant Workers are not a powerful lobby in this country. He did it because he was right. Mondale said he would rather lose a battle over decency than when one over self interest. I agree with him. , forcampaign is not over our country, for our future, for the principles that we believe in. Walter mondale and i have just begun to fight. [applause] thank. I would like to think Vice President bush, congresswoman ferraro for joining us in this debate. I would like to join you and thinking them, the city of philadelphia and at the league of women voters. The league of women voters next debate will take place in kansas city on october 21. The subject will be Foreign Affairs and it will begin at 8 00 p. M. Eastern time. Again, our thanks. We hope you will join us on the 21st. [applause] [applause] [indistinct conversations] ]indisctinc [applause] come on up. You were watching American History tv, exploring our nations past every weekend on cspan three. This week, we are looking back to the state in history. Truly there is a moment which will live in the memory of those who witness it. [indiscernible] than 500,000ore people. A lineage of 200,000 years is greeted in this house are the chief representative of a World Organization made up of member nations who account for over 2 billion people of many kinds and many creeds, an organization which meant brought into being 20 years ago. [indiscernible] is greeted by the United Nations chief. Who of course met him at Kennedy Airport this morning. The Inspector General awaits inside of the threshold of the United Nations building. Crowds and photographers on either side. Headquarters,ions way toadian on his this historic meeting by the extra general. The cardinals of the papal party follow him as he passes into the main hall of the building. [applause] secretarygeneral greets his followers. Follow us on social media at cspan history. Next, on the presidency. Veteran historical interpreters portraying George Washington engage about conversation about the roles and the Constitutional Government that follows. We hear about their exploits at about where their politics and policies diverge. Thomas Jefferson Monticello George Washington mount vernon hosted this program and monticello provided the video