Cspan is your unfiltered view of government , funded by these Television Companies and more including charter communications. Charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers. We are just getting started. Building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. Charter communications supports cspan as a Public Service along with these other Television Providers give you a front row seat to democracy. Are hearing today is kicking off discussions for both fall the recent advances in Artificial Intelligence and the department of energy role in ensuring the continued insecurity and emergent technologies. Over the past few years six National Apps with world leading capably have been working to understand the challenges around a. I. And issues. Those labs are Argonne National laboratory and National Labs in california, los alamos and labs in new mexico and lows in tennessee. The labs work and bring together science and National Security missions. This hearing will examine the findings. This hearing will also discuss the 1. 8 million Computing Program back the committee authorized. If you want to invest in a. I. And the costeffective weight we must build on these existing programs and avoid wasting resources and duplication. Most people think about me department of energy for his work in advancing Energy Technology by Nuclear Reactors and hydrogen. The d. O. E. Does more than just energy. The department is the largest supporter of physical Scientific Research in the federal government. Conducting research and developing technology across the range of fields from quantum computing to Vaccine Development and astrophysics. Last congress we spent a lot of time examining the Critical Role in broad Scientific Research in the context of the english frontier. It ultimately became laws as the chips and science act. It strengthens our economy and is essential to our National Security. D. O. E. Research ensures the u. S. Can anticipate, detect, assess and mitigate emerging technologies and threats related to advance computing biotechnology, Nuclear Security and much more. Artificial intelligence stands out across d. O. E. s bast mission. It can revolutionize scientific discovery, technology, deployment and National Security. In fact, a. I. Is already changing the world at a remarkable pace. Missing at the point in battlefield across the world. Ukraine has excessively used a. I. In drug against russian forces. Also, a. I. Had helped us fight covid19. Intelligence and Computing Resources to model proteins and coronavirus to help develop the vaccine. Make no mistake, Artificial Intelligence also prevents many risk. Early this year, a class at m. I. T. Was tasked with investigating whether a. I. Chatbots could be prompted to assist not experts in causing the pandemic. He just wanted our hour, they suggested pathogens explain how they can be generated from dna using reverse genetics, supply the names of the dna synthesis companies and likely to screen orders. Identified protocols and how to troubleshoot them. And recommended that anyone lacking the skills to perform reverse genetics and core facility or Contract Research organizations. That comes from a recent fatal title cam Large Language Models success with the use biotechnology . I ask you consent to enter into the record. Scientific and engineering expertise has been until now, we have a person do not have access to the resources or the knowhow to launch these high tech threats. Irresponsible of eliminating much of the expertise recorded and developed a weapon. Thereby eroding defenses weve had in the past. A. I. Is not new not a new issue for the commission or department of energy. Since the 1960s d. O. E. Has been a key player in investment in a. I. And automated reasoning as we know, there are 17 National Labs, 34 user facilities that are crown jewels of american r d network. The National Laboratory system has a workforce of over 70,000 scientists, engineers, resources and support personnel with world leading scientists expertise. Their mission is to serve the american people. Each of these labs plays a role in the future of a. I. As i mentioned earlier, d. O. E. Is also largest funded with Scientific Data than any other agency in the u. S. As a result, the department has Computing Resources, expertise, experience managing large funds the data that have leadership on Artificial Intelligence. When federal agencies have an a. I. Problem they look at the d. O. E. And the labs for help. For the past decade the department have had thousands of a. I. Applications. The national Energy Technology lab in West Virginia supports the department of the interior in using Artificial Intelligence to identify the gas wells. It has resources by analyzing survey maps, drilling permits, historical images, production records and eyewitness accounts to find well sites. During the rmd awards, is referred to as the oscars of innovation. Dr. Rick stevens of Argonne National labs is one of our Witnesses Today. He was recognized for his work using a. I. With the discovery of new Cancer Therapies and treatments that are highly personalized for individual patients. Our committee has recently played an Important Role in advancing d. O. E. s a. I. Work. The United States must not fall behind in supercomputing this race. We authorize the exoskeleton Computing Program other part of energy in the hundred and 15 congress. In may last year the supercomputer at oak ridge National Laboratory in tennessee past xo scale. The ability to perform 1 billion calculations per second. That is a lot. Making this the fastest supercomputer in the world. Before we authorize the program, china have the fastest computers. Now, the u. S. Has regained the lead. This supercomputer at oak ridge is already using a. I. To model the behavior of human cells, develop better treatments for alzheimers, opiate addiction and cancer. It is just beginning. A high has the potential to have trillions of dollars into the role each year. Governments and countries around the world are competing fiercely in the new market. America must accelerate our efforts to compete and defend against china and a. I. China on a. I. It is estimated they will reach 26 billion by 2026 of investment. It dwarfs the u. S. Governments current spending of 3. 3 billion per year. Between 2015 and 21 chinese a. I. Companies raise 110 million, including 40. 2 million from u. S. Investors. I cannot even believe. It was 251 a. I. Companies. In 2017, china released a new generation of a. I. Development, which includes our indian infrastructure targets. The u. S. Does not have in addition to government spending, chinas workforce is significant. Twice as many phds and twice as many stem master degree holders in the u. S. China has created artificial towns phd programs and every one of their top universities. In regards to the competing program, this can champion. The Chinese Government can set to operate as many as 10 supercomputers by 2025. Shes keeping has pointed to our national lab network. The indispensable momentum for the Development Innovation of technology. Soon china may have their very own network. Just last week a Company Released ernie bott, a Chinese Communist party compared to chatgpt we of all heard a lot about. It is the most downloaded app and expected to continue to grow. It is occurred to me that the d. O. E. Needs to more planning such as our National Labs. We should encourage other agencies to use d. O. E. As resource and promote partnerships with eight apartment in the National Labs to help save commercial applications of a. I. We must understand what it is to invest to us for leadership in Artificial Intelligence. Congress should focus on strengthening and expanding our impressive programs rather than creating duplicates new programs and other agencies. We also ensure d. O. E. And National Labs are responsibly recruiting meeting a. I. Experts both from our country and global. Much of americas a. I. Expertise comes from immigrants founded or cofounded half of the startups in the u. S. International students earn 60 of our Computer Science doctorates. At the same time, we must be sure the a. I. Work includes security requirements. We will not outcompete china in a. I. If theyre able to steal the technology funded by our taxpayer dollars. The chips and science act that passed last Congress FeaturedResearch Security improvements. There are being illumined by the apartment Foreign Espionage is an evolving threat. We must be clear eyed in this threat. The United States must be raining at the forefront of the new emerging technologies as a central component of that effort. Im looking forward to hearing our witnesses perspectives on specific steps our committee and the department could take to ensure america is advancing in a. I. In a competitive and responsible manner. With that, i will turn to my friend for his opening remarks. I appreciate your opening remarks because Artificial Intelligence is rapidly transforming the world we are impacting our daily lives. Artificial tonsil plays a role in the energy sector. In mining a. I. Can reduce equipment downtime. Advanced algorithms help minors locate deposits for more efficient expiration. Realtime analytics, worker safety programs by predicting potential hazards. It helps pinpoint oil and gas reserves. Addictive models harness data to streamline operations and reduce cost. A. I. Enhanced sensors also reinforce Pipeline Safety and efficiency. Artificial intelligence has great promise to expand our economy and to strengthen our National Security it also raises, mr. Chairman, some well documented concerns. A recent study at the university anglais highlighted the systemic leftwing bias in chatgpt platform but it revealed a clear bias in favor of democrats. The same program favored the labour party in the United Kingdom and the Workers Program party in brazil. We cannot let political bias infiltrate development of a. I. This is true in taxpayer dollars are helping fund technologies developed. Innovation and emerging technology, like Artificial Intelligence can be a source of strength. It can be a key advantage of our geopolitical competition, as you point out with china and russia. It can create a National Security risk if the technologies are not properly protected. The department of energy has a big role in Artificial Intelligence research. The department maintains the worlds most advanced computing systems. 17 National Labs had significant experience developing our nations will Sensitive Technology. The peoples republic of china is watching nearly every move that is made in our National Labs. A recent report revealed that since 1987, the Chinese Communist party has targeted over 160 chinese researchers working at our premier Nuclear Weapons lab. Upon returning to china these researchers help to advance key military technologies using knowledge financed by american taxpayers. In july of this year, senior fbi officials warned that china is targeting u. S. Businesses, universities and Government Research facilities china is trying to get their hands on cutting edge American Research and technology. As of 20 21 4000 nonus residents still work at our nation labs at the national level. Many of these for national strive to further scientific innovation and you want to collaborate in good faith. They find themselves beholden to authoritarian regime at home in the Chinese Communist party. Some of these chinese nationals have seen no choice but to support the Chinese Communists through theft of research and technology. Their families back in china may suffer harsh consequences if they do not comply with their governments demands. China sustain interest in our intellectual property is a stark reminder of the global competition surrounding Artificial Intelligence. This competition may drive advancements in the field. We cannot work the threat to our National Security posed by the Chinese Government. The department of energy in our National Labs must take the china threat more seriously. We cannot let our Technology Fall into the hands of those in beijing. I look forward to hearing from our Witnesses Today on what additional steps Research Agencies must take to prevent this theft of american technology. Mr. Chairman, thanks for calling this hearing. I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today. I appreciate you making the effort. We will have deputy secretary of energy and we have rick stevens, as i said before. Thank you for your work. Wife make and and mr. Andrew wheeler, Vice President of Hewlett Packard enterprises. Thank you, all. I will turn it to secretary turk. We will begin with your opening remarks. Chairman manchin, Ranking Member barrasso. Distinguish hours of the committee, thank you for the opportunity. Im half the department of energy to talk about the activities in and our vision for Artificial Intelligence. Let me begin by drinking this committee. For years and years of strong sustained support that has led to the d. O. E. Becoming an a. I. Powerhouse. Chairman, you laid out much of that in your own Opening Statement. With your leadership, we have designed, develop and operate four of the top 10 fastest openly benchmark supercomputers in the world, including the worlds fastest frontier at Oak Ridge National lab. Through the exit scale competing process, developing the words First Software ecosystem that is helping to dry drive breakthroughs in critical areas as varied as cancer research, earth risk assessment, storage, computational weapon, application i could go on and on. Across a network of 34 National User facilities around the country. D. O. E. Generates tremendous volumes of highquality data. Literally, the fuel that can lead to more a. I. Breakthroughs. Most temporally, d. O. E. s National Laboratory system has a workforce of 70,000 scientists, engineers, researchers and support personnel with world leading expertise. It is a pleasure to be joint on this panel by rick stevens who is one of the top expert, as you mentioned in your Opening Statement. As proud as we all should be about this robust a. I. Foundation ideally, now is the time to take these capabilities to the next level. Advances in a. I. Are enabling enormous progress and breakthroughs that can help address key challenges of our time. We need to double down on the technical capability, the computers, the software, the data, and most important the researchers to make sure we have those breakthroughs in the u. S. And the private sector can benefit from that as well. Governments around the world are investing in a. I. As never before. Chinese investments are expected to reach over 26 billion by 2026. We simply must be bolder and move faster or risk falling behind. A. I. Also lowers the bar for bad actors to do even worse the things and to do it easier. A. I. Civil liberties. Risk to society from information. Social engineering and marketing manipulation. Bio threats, nuclear threats, chemical threats are made easier by a. I. , potentially. In industry, they cannot be aware of the risk and threat because much of that information, rightfully so, falls with in our National Security enterprise. D. O. E. Can play an incredibly Important Role, including developing methods for assessing and red teaming a. I. Models to identify and mitigate the risk presented by the cutting edge a. I. Systems. They are developing and improving incredibly quickly over weeks and months ahead. Over the past five years we have worked with stakeholders across the a. I. Ecosystem to identify new and rapidly emerging opportunities and challenges presented by a. I. And to identify very specifically, how unique d. O. E. Capabilities, the Strong Foundation and how we can drive progress from a. I. Going forward from the Department Energy side of things. This, in the may 2023 release a report called a. I. For science, energy and security. This vision and blueprint align precisely with the need for scientific grounding in areas such as transparency, security, validation and the impact of a. I. On jobs. We have translated this feedback into a specific proposal for your consideration of the frontiers in all Artificial Intelligence for science security and technology. This is exactly as you said, a Strategic Plan for the d. O. E. Nesting with in a broader Strategic Vision for the u. S. Government. Mr. Ranking member, you pointed out there is also Research Security issues and challenges we need to take care of. We need to improve our systems on a regular basis. I want to thank our fellow panelists, for their testimony. Excellent testimony that we can improve on even further at the department of energy side. Including our science and Technology Risk matrix. I would be happy to get into in the questionandanswer session. We look forward to further discussing the fast proposal. Everything else we are doing and updating based on this committees continued guidance and leadership. There is no doubt that with a. I. We are now on the cusp of our next grand challenge in the United States. Working with in and outside the government d. O. E. Stands ready to step up to the moment and play our role and fully engage in the grand challenge. We utilize our unique computing capacity, comprehensive data sets. Our algorithms, relationship with industry and most importantly our skilled leading scientific workforce. All of us at the department of energy very much look forward to working with this committee to live up to this moment. Atomic, mr. Chairman. Now we will go to dr. Stevens. Thank you chairman manchin. Thank you at two mr. Barrasso and members of the committee to participate in this discussion about National Labs and a. I. I have worked on advanced computing for over 30 years at the university of chicago. Much of that time i have been driven by this idea that we need to build intelligence into the future conduct of the meeting. Over the last four years. I have the worker all my colleagues in the 17 labs over 32 unit universities. I ran seven townhall meetings over four years that about 1300 researchers. In these meetings, we challenge the community to think probably about how advanced a. I. Systems, going beyond what we do today, could be developed and applied in d. O. E. Mission spaces. To accelerate research, accelerate development of Energy Technologies and improve National Security. What im going to tell you about now is a little bit of those outcomes of that report. The consensus is there is an enormous opportunity to use a. I. To accelerate discovery as a basic science, accelerate the application of that in Energy Technologies and improve how we conduct all of our work in National Security. Some of these applications could range from new technologies for better boundaries that require Less Rare Earth Minerals that would improve Global Security in and of itself. Some polymers that could be ideal for each application but could be recycled indefinitely without losing performance. We dont know how to do that today but we think a. I. Could help with that. We believe a. I. Can be coupled with robotics to automate much experimental science, improving orders of magnitude. It is so compelling, that idea, as though my colleagues have formed this concept of a. I. Driven science factories or self driving laboratories as a way to accelerate work in Drug Development for cancer or new materials for semiconductors. A. I. Can address key challenges in software development. D. O. E. Manages over billions of lines of code. We do not have enough developers , enough Senior Software developers to get that code to new machines. We know a. I. Can help us with that problem. A. I. Systems are properly trained could help us design not only software but hardware for next generation systems and build systems that can save a huge amount of energy. They are also being used to explore ways to control complex systems like fusion reactors. We the same idea could be controlling future power grids and changes in demand. A. I. Can be used to accelerate simulations by replacing methods with new a. I. Driven methods and speedups of factors of 100 more across many applications and other predictions to electronic structure competition. Finally, the biggest opportunity is probably the idea of foundational models. And applying that to science. We are discovering the most technologies are incredibly versatile for doing scientific problems. They have been trained on science papers, vastly more knowledge than individual scientists would ever absorb in their lifetime. They can be used to integrate and synthesize knowledge. Suggest new lines of attack on open problems and so forth. In short, and a surprise to many, current foundational models demonstrated an unusual utility of science. Maybe a decade earlier than we thought. That is one of the dramatic opportunities and challenges. Because these models can directly affect productivity today. We do not have a strategy across the department for aggressively using this as a big opportunity that is also a challenge. A. I. In all its forms is becoming the most important tool in the scientific and technical toolbox. As a result of these workshops and the progress over the last five years. I believe it is imperative that the u. S. Lead the world in the development of advanced a. I. Systems for scientific and National Security application. I believe d. O. E. Is the only agency that can do this and has all the resources under one roof. Of course it will be a partnership with private industry and with our colleagues. I believe we should commit over the next decade to building the most powerful advanced a. I. Capability for science, energy and National Security. Some might call it an artificial general intelligence or perhaps a super intelligence for science. The goal is to go dramatically be on who we are today in a secure fashion and reliable fashion. Whoever leads the world in a. I. For science will lead the world in scientific discovery and have a head start in the translation of those discoveries into products that expand our commodity and address modern needs. In doing that we will secure innovation frontier. Whoever leads the world in the development of a. I. Or energy will lead the world in developing and applying next generation Energy Technology, such as modular reactors. And deployed anywhere at a moments notice. We are super efficient combustion systems to take maximum advantage of our resources. And scalable approaches to frustration, which we desperately need. And better and more effective strategies for electrification of the economy. By doing that, we will secure the climate frontier. Finally, whoever leads the world in understanding and mitigating the risk of a. I. And the use of a. I. To improve national and Global Security will determine the landscape in which we and our allies will live and work in the future. It secures our lifestyles and our prosperity. Thank you for your time. I look forward to the questions. Thank you, dr. Stevens. And now we will have that im not sure im saying this right. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to participate in todays hearing. It is an honor to be here among signed the excerpts in this panel. I am the senior fellow at the center for security and Emergency Technology at georgetown university. I previously serves as the counterintelligence officer. For the smt development. My testimony will focus addresses why china targets at the d. O. E. Labs and provide a decent overview of the system and discuss potential strategies. I will also offer lessons learned, which include not ideally problem but a u. S. Problem. Because chinas system is not the same as ours. China takes a holistic approach to developing technology, blurring the lines between public, private, civilian and military. Our policy and mitigation strategies need to reflect this reality and beijing, in many ways, understand our societal tensions and it is directed at them. Exploiting identity politics by promoting any changes in u. S. Policy as ethnic profiling. It is because of this last point that i want to acknowledge how difficult and challenging can be. Biographers were immigrants who came to this country with little formal education and work meaningful jobs. My presence is a testament to the american dream. It is because there is no room for ethnic profiling in the u. S. It goes against everything we stand for as a nation. And precisely because of these values, we must move forward to find principled ways to mitigate the policies of a nationstate that is ever more authoritarian and seeks to undermine the global norms of science. The importance of science is why china targets the d. O. E. Labs. Emerging technologies, as we have heard, such as a. I. , biotechnology, new materials and green tag are increasing at the center of a global competition. The d. O. E. Labs, because of their mission, is in the crosshairs. While many are familiar with the mission in regards to stewarding nuclear deterrent, it also plays an essential role in emerging technologies and research. Is essentially a window into the priorities of the u. S. Government. I have to say, d. O. E. Is an underappreciated resource. While china is not the only country that targets u. S. Technology, chinas efforts are complex and multifaceted. And part of a state sponsored strategy to save time, money, and advance the strategic goals. Specifically in these emerging technology areas. My written testimony goes into more details on the policies, programs and infrastructure about support these efforts. Chinas legal system also complicates collaborations with the d. O. E. Complex because its loss compel its citizens to share information and data with chinese entities, regardless of the restrictions placed on the data. Moore, who owns it. Ive also provided these in my written testimony. Moving forward, we need to consider the following. We need to have policies for the china that we have, not the china we want. Most policy measures to date have been tactical and not designed to counter an entire system that is structurally different than our own. It is essential that the United States and other level democracies invest in the future. We have heard about the great promise of these technologies. We must build Research Security into the funding programs from the start. Existing policies and laws are insufficient to address the level of influence that the ccc exerts in our society, especially in Academic Research. Increased requirements for Academic Research institutes and clear reporting requirements and rules on participation in forming talent programs are a good start. We also have to ensure true reciprocity in our collaborations. For too long we look the other way when china has not followed through on the details of the smt agreements there has been no repercussions for that. We are not sharing data and providing access to its facilities and the true affiliations of its scientists. However, i will caution extreme policy reactions such as closing her eyes and doing nothing or closing our doors will benefit china. The latter by discrediting efforts to address the problem and by depriving ourselves of the great contributions of foreign. In conclusion, but will make this difficult is the reality of the china is presenting is inconvenient in the short term. This includes Companies Looking for short term profits, academic benefit from funding for their laboratories and government officials lobbyist for China State University support companies. I want to thank the committee, again, for continuing to discuss this issue. These are hard conversations that we ended we as a nation must have. If you want to protect future developments and our values. Thank you very much. Thank you. Now, we have mr. Weather. Chairman manchin, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. Thank you for the support for the excess scale commuting initiative. My name is Andrew Wheeler and i meet advanced development and highperformance computing and Artificial Intelligence. And serve as the director of hewlettpackard labs. The central applied Research Group for hewlettpackard enterprise. We trace our roots back to the original Hewlettpackard Company , as many of you know this enterprise was formed as a new publicly traded company in november of 2015. At hpe we fundamentally believe that a. I. Will have a significant an impact on our lives as any technology to date. Training the largest a. I. Models is a supercomputing problem. At hpe, we build the best supercomputers. With our partners at the department of energy, we codesigned and cobuilt supercomputers that target complex scientific, engineering and dated intensive workloads. These include systems at sandia , Los Alamos National laboratories in new mexico, the Renewable Energy laboratory in colorado and the national Energy Technology laboratory in West Virginia. Our National Investments have farreaching benefits across the federal government. For example, our innovations in computing, power and density that we provide to the d. O. E. Are also being used to cross the department of defense. In the Intelligence Community and at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to forecast weather. And at the National Science foundation centers. In fact, during the early stages of the covid19 outbreak, the National Labs, including argon use their supercomputers to accelerate a path to treatment to combat the disease. Using Detailed Digital simulations to analyze the fast set of candidates, researchers at Lawrence Livermore narrow down the number of potential antibody candidates from an initial set of 100 the one with 40 zeros after it to just 20. They accomplish this in weeks. Compared to the years it will take using other approaches. In 2016, hpe was proud to be chosen as a key partner in the d. O. E. s Computing Initiative. It was designed to accelerate the research, development, acquisition and deployment of new technologies to deliver exoskeleton computing and to usher in a new era of supercomputing speed and capabilities. In may of 2022, hpe as part of a Public Private partnership of oak ridge, achieved computing with a computer that is more powerful than the next four fastest assumes combined. To put it in the context, the human brain can perform about one simple mathematical operation for second. An xo scale computer can do at least one quintillion, which is 1 billionw1 billion calculations in the same amount of time. The success of exoskeleton Computing Initiative restored the u. S. Position as having been the most powerful computer and mark the creation of the World Largest a. I. System. It will soon be joined by systems installed at argonne and Lawrence Livermore. At hpe w challenge. In conclusion, while the United States has regained its rightful role as the world leader in super computing, now is not the time to rest on our laurels. The researchers are continued investment in this Successful Partnership is in our National Economic and security interest and hp looks forward to working with the u. S. Government to continue our goal and leadership. Thank you. Now ill be open with questioning. My first question will go to secretary turk and dr. Stevens and mr. Wheeler. My question is how ai created a covid weapon. Emerging technological related to an array of nuclear securities. So mr. Turk and dr. Stevens what can the Department Labs do to address the safety and security concerns . Thanks for the question, youre right to raise this as an issue. The study that you referenced, and put into the record is a real eye opener, it should be. Especially for those who dont deal with these issues on a daily basis. We have a real challenge here as professor stevens and otherred pointed out. A. I. Can do a lot of good but it can do a lot of harm too. It allows people who are not scientifically educated to do. We have to remember our National Labs dont just work for the department of energy they work for all the other agencies and a lot of other agencies already have a lot of programs including in the bio defense and bio tech area. We also at the department of energy know how to deal with classified information. We have our own intelligence branch. And thats incredibly important here as well. So were not just relying on whats on the open record but we have the best of whats going on from a scientific and certainly from an intel perspective. What im trying to get to, is basically i look back and we all remember, on the internet. Was coming on board and was born out of the labs. Then by the 1990s, early 90s we could do something that we created section 230 thinking we were going to develop all it can be. We look back and its more than what we thought it could be. And its been used very effectively to help economies and help people all over the world. Its been used very detrimentally too. Were trying to prevent the same with ai. Were seeing what m. I. T. Students could do in one hour is just alarming. I advise some of my colleagues about this. What i want to know is what can you do to stop Something Like that and what kind of guardrails. Dr. Stevens you want to Say Something on that. This is exactly why we need to invest in these capabilities. We need to be ahead of the curve and detective stevens can get into that more. How we would approach that problem. Of course, were working with mist on a thing called the ai frame management frame work which is largely envisioned as a process that uses humans to evaluate the trustworthiness and alignment that is whether a model does something that you would like it to do or something that you dont want it to do. I think the key thing here is theres actually two key problems that we have to solve. One is we have to have the ability to assess the risks in current models. At scale. There are other 100 Large Language Models in circulation in china. Theres more than 1,000 in circulation in the u. S. A manual process for evaluating that is not going scale. So were going to have to build capabilities using the kind of Super Computers we have and even additional ai systems to assess other a. I. Systems so we can say this model is safe. It doesnt know how to build a pandemic or wont help students do something risky. Thats one thing we have to do. Second thing we have to do is we have to understand the fundamental issue of alignment whats called alignment. Which is building these models that align with human values and are reliable in aligning with human values. And thats a fundamental research task. Its not something that we can just snap our fingers and say we know how to do it. We dont nope dont know how to do it. Companies dont know how to do it. Thats one of the goals we have to have in a Research Program like this. We need scale. The ability to assess and evaluate risk in current models and future models and we need fundamental rnv on alignment and a. I. Safety. This is growing so quickly. And expanding toward a. I. , when we heard about it coming from our standpoint to where we are today. And to have a class study and these were not scientist students. Yeah, yeah. How can we put that, that cat back in the box. I dont think we can put it back in the box. I think we have to get smarter about how we manage the risk associated with advanced ai systems and using a term that people are using quite a lot. Eyes wide open. Theres no putting pandora back in the box. Every person is going to have an a. I. System in their pocket to help them do what they have to do. Hopefully that will have positive advances for society. Some of that will be negative. We have to figure out how to reduce that. Either through laws or other means. Technical means before something dramatically bad happens and i think that needs to be part of the technical agenda for the labs and quite frankly across the federal government. Im going take the liberty of having seven minute rounds. You want to speak on this at all . You have any comments coming from the institutional . So i think, thats also important as we look at the a. I. As a tool of discovery and in some ways you can say that the study that the classroom did for discovery. That there are a lot of steps though that need to happen from the time you go from the sequence into something that can really have a large scale down as talked about. So one of the things that were actually taking a closer look at is, having the sequence is one thing but then what are the smaller ones. Thats something that is still, and everything that has to go in between that. Too late to put any guardrails on . Have we missed it . Not entirely. I think its right, there are many layers to this. I think theres both a policy aspect to this as well as you know kind of a research component. But as an example in the policy side. Like our own company, we spend over a year and a half developing what we call our a. I. Ethics principles. This is getting our engineers and users go through training around, okay what does it mean to you know use a. I. In our product developments. How are we going to Deploy Solutions that you know harness a. I. And now that cant solve every problem because as you mentioned, there are bad actors that you know maybe wont follow that same line of reasoning. And thats where i think the research and investment comes in, into play. Theres a broad field of study around this trustworthy a. I. Which can provide some of those guardrails youre asking about but were still really in the early days of some of that and deploying some of those solutions and theres a lot of work thats left. Thank you, sorry. Senator barrasso. You very well outlined us the threat that china poses to private sector development. We have more than 4,000 chinese nationals working in the department of energy labs. Are these employees vulnerable to the Chinese Communist party. Your talent Recruitment Programs. How does that work . Great, thank you. The top Recruitment Programs really do pose quite a challenge. Based on the principles that a lot of these individuals when they sign these contracts often, obscure their participation. But i think as i mentioned in my Opening Statement, its really important as we go forward that we acknowledge the policies and programs that china has put in place. And really, focus on how our system and their system is different. Thats why its important to talk about the human rights issues and the kinds of pressure that the Chinese Government can bring to their on individuals especially as you had mentioned in your Opening Statement whos families are still in china. Now i think its a really delicate balance. And so some of these reporting programs and also just following up on different affiliations. And thinking through i think the risk matrix is one of those tools that can be very useful because all research doesnt have the same amount of risk. And so, its important to not have a one size fits all approach to this. But it also highlights the importance of really investing in home grown talent as well. Thank you. So mr. Turk, more than a year ago i wrote to the department and regarding the persistent threat of the Chinese Foreign nationals doing research on Sensitive Technology labs. A copy of the letter. I brought to the attention that 162 chinese nationals that stole material from the lab. Your letter answered the question but did not answer my question. Does the benefit of the work of the Chinese Foreign nationals within our lab outweigh the documented risk to both our research and our National Security . Let me first thank you for all your focus on this issue. Thank you to mr. Puglisis work and testimony. So three things maybe just to point out and happy to get into this in any detail. One we do have specific restrictions. So you cant work at a lab if youve done a talent Recruitment Program. To make sure we have those prohibitions and restrictions in place and trying to really think about not just whats called talent Recruitment Program but other ways the Chinese Government and others can get around that as well. So we have eyes wide open on those prohibitions. Secondly we mentioned, we have the risk matrix. This is going beyond whats under our control or whats under classification in making sure were looking at technologies and just as mr. Puglisi said, doing a ranking on the Sensitive Technology. A. I. Is one of the six Sensitive Technology we have a concern about in this risk matrix. Making sure for those very sensitive operations we have very sensitive operations. We have a Counter Intelligence unit at the department of energy and all of our field offices cover all of our labs. Were actively investigating and making sure we follow up on any leads so we can be as thoughtful and proactively as we possibly can. Theres a balance here, just as mr. Puglisi said. Its a great part of our scientific apparatus that we have folks from all over the world that want to come work here. You think of Albert Einstein and many others who benefited our country immensely. We want to take advantage of that. Especially where appropriate with open science that are fruitful to that kind of focus as well. Its also useful to note i have one statistic here, many of the folks who come here to work in the u. S. Including in our labs end up staying and becoming incredibly important partings important part of our eco system. Students stay here in the u. S. Five years after graduating and thats a huge benefit. Working forward to working with you further. The good news is 90 come and stay and the concern is, theres potentially 10 that do return to china. Or have families there as you mentioned. And as mr. Puglisi has mentioned and eyes wide open. Im interested to how foreign nationals are concerned hold up theyre vetted before theyre hired in your lab. Theres a process thats similar across all the laboratories where theres a background check. Theres the filters that secretary turk mentioned in terms of Recruitment Programs and their history. Theres a famous foreign, 493 we call it that foreign nationals have to fill out. Theres a, its a long process to get hired and get cleared and not just to be hired but even to come as a visitor and to participate in user facilities. I think labs do quite a good job at screening this. They make very valuable contributions. One statistic that may be, i think it was maybe mentioned that over 60 of the Computer Science graduate students in the u. S. Are foreign born. And the work force component that we need to build advanced a. I. Systems will not function if we prohibit those students from participating in this eco system. So were going to need to really accelerate our Work Force Development and foreign born participants are important component of that. So follow up to mr. Wheeler, so given the Global Nature of the technology development, how does your organization navigate the challenges of International Collaboration while ensuring the security and the integrity of the research . So, much like the National Labs, we have a very you know, process for how we on board talent as well. We also have ongoing training and thats mandatory, around global trade so its very specific. Everyone gets trained around you know what are the regulations around hold up do you interact if, you know whether its a collaboration opportunity with anyone abroad honestly. And so we have very strict control that manages what kind of technology can be transferred, who we work with. So very tight guidelines there. And then above and beyond that, for the projects were involved in specifically you know this is obviously closer to the department of defense. But you know if its a project that requires you know only cleared personnel. We have that ability. We have the ability to do you know secure manufacturing. So weve got a lot of steps in terms of security and who we work with and how the work ultimately gets done. Thank you mr. Chairman. Senator. We heard from all of you intellectual property to advance their economy and that our labs are targeted for this kind of effort. But i want to point out, as some of you have pointed out, the sensitives involved and the balance that is required. So it is important to deter Chinese Government wrong doing and prosecute espionage and theft but our concern is about the Chinese Government actions not chinese people. We must avoid misguided prosecution such as what was under taken by the Justice Department in the Previous Administration with their china initiative. Going after researchers on shotty evidence will hurt not help American Invasion by sending the best minds elsewhere. So listen to some of the responses that you provided already on this subject. For secretary mr. Turk, you say that we are Going Forward with eyes wide open and we have some proactive steps that the doj has taken. Do you consider these steps to be adequate to protect us from the kind of intellectual property espionge engaged by entity such as china and russia, espionage engaged by entity such as china and russia. Youre correct to say that its more than russia. We need to do more. Threat is evolving and we need to create our responses. Such as the risk matrix. So we make sure we are updating what technology we consider sensitive. We have a Standing Group now made up of folks from throughout the lab and do j. We need to improve on a regular basis. And as you said rightly, get the balance right. Because the message with the chinese here is our government targeting, targeting these people. And it created an environment that people were targeted for various kinds of abuse to say the least. For mr. Stevens, for the maui fire, people have been generated Incorrect Information on media. People have been reaching out to fema to sow distrust. Are you aware this happened at the wake of the maui disaster. Absolutely. So at this point with more of these kinds of natural disasters occurring with more devastating results we can expect there will be these kind of misinformation in our own government. How can we use a. I. To find this misinformation in natural tkeu disasters. I think we need to have systems for synthetic or deep fake information from being dissimilated through social media channels. We need to promote water markers so we can detect when its generated by a. I. And we need to make head way on water marking official sources that is official news that comes from governments or responsible parties so that it can be detected automatically that that is true and correct information coming out. Distinguish it from misinformation generated by a. I. So theres a multiple layer, layered approach to protecting the citizens from disinformation. We have to do all of those things. Do you think mr. , well secretary turk that we already have these kind of systems in place because as i mentioned, these kinds of natural disasters are happening more. We cant have all this misinformation out there stopping people from accessing the very kind of help that they need. Do we have these kinds of systems already in place . So honestly, we have some of them in place not just the department of energy but others across the government but not as much as we need to. Absolutely. And what professor stevens is exactly right. We need a layered approach and we need to continually update and improve that. And frankly have the capabilities so that we can do the kinds of monitoring. We can do the kind of analysis that allows us not only the department of energy but others across the government to have the information and the tools to do the water marking and other ga