Transcripts For CSPAN3 IRS 20240703

Other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. Next, testimony on allegations of misconduct at the justice apartment and the irs regarding the investigation of hunter biden. For the House Oversight and accountability committee. Gary shapley and Joseph Siegler test five that political interference two protocols not being allowed in the investigative process and also made a role in charges filed against hunter biden. Capitol hill. Capitol two irs to follow an investigation into the biden family. And the Oversight Committee. Now in order. I want to welcome everyone here today. Without objection, the chair we want to welcome everyone here today. Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time. Without objection, chairman of the ways and Means Committee, mr. Jason smith is waived onto the committee for the purpose of making an opening treatment and rationing the witness is in todays hearing i want to thank chairman smith and chairman jordan for their cooperation and working with the Oversight Committee on this investigation. This is an important joint effort that shows the American People know that accountability matters regardless of your last name. For this hearing, open students will be limited to 10 minutes for the chair and 10 minutes for the Ranking Member. I now recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening statement. Since the republican journey in january, the House Oversight committee has made historically fast progress in our investigation into the biden family influence of pedaling schemes. In just six months, we have obtained thousands of pages of financial records. This includes bank records for biden Family Associates and suspicious activity were words generated by the bidens and their Associates High dollar or foreign business transactions. Once these records reveal, it will be astonishing. The bidens created over 20 Shell Companies most of which were created when joe biden was Vice President. Bank records so far show the biden family, their Business Associates and their companies received over 10 million from foreign nationals and related companies. A lot of this money poured in while joe biden was Vice President. Despite creating Many Companies after Vice President took office, the biden family use associate companies received millions of dollars from Foreign Companies in china, ukraine, and romania. After Foreign Companies sent money to business associate companies, the bidens and received incremental payments over time to various Different Bank accounts. These complicated Financial Transactions are used deliberately to conceal the source of funds and total amounts. No normal business operates like this. What are the bidens selling connect nothing but influence and actions. This is an influence peddling scheme to enrich the bidens. We need to know whether joe biden is compromised by these schemes and other National Security is threatened. During our investigation our committee became aware that the fda had an unclassified record that detailed extortion and bribery scheme involving and Vice President biden and everest executive. This record was generated by a trusted potential human source that the bia used for over a decade. It memorializes the conversation with the executive who claimed he paid joe biden Million Dollars in exchange for certain actions. The prisma executive told the human source he did not pay the big guy directly, but that he used so many Bank Accounts it would take 10 years to unravel. So that sounds a lot like how the bidens conduct business using multiple Bank Accounts to hide the source of the money. Today we have two incredible whistleblowers who have risked their careers to come forward and provide testimony thank you for being here today. I know it was not an easy decision. Their testimony about the doj, fbi and irs investigation of hunter biden confirms the committees findings that there is nothing normal about the biden familiess activities. The white house and democrats would have americas leave our investigation is based on five years of conspiracy theories, but we have tax and new evidence continues to be uncovered revealing the first familys corruption, the bidens have them selves first and americans last. We will continue to follow the money trail and provide answers that americans demand and deserve. With that i yield to the chairman, jason smith. Thank you. The ways and Means Committee is charged with ensuring that the tax code is enforced fairly. Clearly the president only believe in making taxpayers pay their fair share if they dont share his last name. These courageous whistleblowers provided my committee with devastating testimony showing the government is not treating all taxpayers equally and the doj and the irs gave preferential treatment to the president s son during a criminal investigation into his taxes. These individuals in front of us today are incredible and sat for nearly two hours of interviews with both republicans and democrats. I personally took part in the interview with mr. Ziegler. Here is what we learned from the interview. The irs recommended multiple, the irs recommended multiple felony charges against hunter biden or tax years 2014 through 2019 relating to at least a. 3 million in incomes from Foreign Companies including one based in china, romania and ukraine. That is the only amount discovered despite the roadblocks and obstructions their investigation faced. The department of justice engaged in a campaign to delay, they bulge and and i that investigation. They did lead investigators for years leading to the expiration of the statute of limitations for many of the crimes involved. They diebolds key investigative details to bidens attorney and even the president s Transition Team and they denied investigators the ability to authenticate evidence to serve warrants, question witnesses and bring charges. This led to hunter biden sweetheart agreement, announced five years after the investigation started, but mere days before my committee voted to publicly release this testimony. But americans in my Congressional District or any other received the same treatment . After raising their concerns internally at the irs committees with the words were discouraged and demoralized and turned to congress as a last resort. They bravely reported wrongdoing to us and what have the allies including Hunter Bidens lawyers done . They have responded with a vicious, a Vicious Smear Campaign to discredit these whistleblowers and discourage others from coming forward and may have even coordinated with the white house on this earth. This is a disgrace. I urge any irs employee watching today, if you know of misconduct, please come to the ways and Means Committee so we can hold accountable those who are responsible and let me be clear, there will be zero tolerance for any retaliation against whistleblowers by doj and the irs. The American People expect answers about whether the federal government is treating all tax is equally or if the wealthy and politically connected that special treatment. Our committees are working together to get to the bottom of this abuse of power and will work tirelessly to do so and to make sure it does not ever happen again. Americans should not have to accept two tiers of justice in this country. One if your last name is biden and one for everybody else. I want to thank both whistleblowers for coming forward publicly and for your testimony. I yield to mr. Jordan. Thank you. Who are you going to believe april 26th, the attorney general said david white was in charge of the investigation. October 7th in a meeting with one of the whistleblowers, david white said i am not the deciding official or who are you going to believe connect on february 28 i wrote the attorney general asking him why there is no special counsel in the hunter biden investigation. He did respond which is unusual. I wrote again on may 25th, again the attorney general did not respond, but david white did and here is what he said june 7th he said this, i have been granted ultimate authority over the matter including responsibility deciding where, when and whether to charges. That is with the u. S. Attorney said on june 7th. Three weeks later mr. White wrote me again and he said this, i stand by what i wrote, but i wish to expand. Already changing his story 23 days later and he says this, my charging authority is geographically limited to my home district wait a minute, you told me 23 days before you have ultimate authority. Now you change it. Then again on july 10th, mr. White wrote senator graham and he said this, paragraph 2 to clarify not requested special counsel designation, rather i had discussions with departmental officials. He cant get his story straight. Three different stories in a fiveweek timeframe, on june 7th he is tarzan and superman i can do what i want, file charges where i want. June 30th, actually i cant, and then of course on july 10th he says to clarify, i have not requested social counsel that is, but i have been talking to the folks at maine justice. Three different positions and a little over a month. You know his story has not changed . These guys. Their testimony has been consist throughout their testimony has been the same and guess what, two days ago and the i agent confirmed their testimony. Who are you going to believe connect the Justice Department cant get their story straight changed three times and 33 days, or these guys connect the Justice Department just two weeks ago from the federal court in louisiana, the Justice Department that said moms and dads are terrorists, the Justice Department upset if you are catholic you are an extremist, the Justice Department that cant get it story straight or these guys connect over a decade of experience for each of them, they go to guys and tax evasion cases, the 18 when it comes to investigating these matters all over the world they have done this and have been consistent throughout. I think i will believe these guys. They are the ones telling the truth and that is fundamentally what this comes down to. Thats you for the work you have done and for being here today stepping forward because you care about equal treatment under the law. That is what is at stake. I yield back. I know yield to the Ranking Member of maryland for his opening statement. Thank you. Good afternoon to the witnesses. I thought we might be here today on the matter that the chairman declared his top priority the crusade to find evidence of wrongdoing by President Biden, but the majority went as it turns out to be a fugitive from american justice, and arms traffic are indicted on a federal felony count in an unregistered Foreign Agent china who tried to trade chinese arms for running oil, so he will not be a witness for the majority any times after the report, bank records, form 1023, we can conclude that this inspector quest for something that does not exist has turned our committee into a theater of the absurd and an exercise in embarrassment and now we can finally definitively say why the committees efforts have run dry time and again. Yesterday mr. Chairman we got a letter from lev parnas, the ukrainian born American Business man who was at Rudy Giulianis side as his right knee and for a year in november 2018 to october 2019, as giuliani and trump tried to smear joe biden before the 2020 auction with the very same allegations we are still running through the medical and cycle every week in the committee. I request unanimous consent to enter the parnassus letter into the record now, in this extraordinary letter, he paints achingly describes the campaign orchestrated giuliani and trump to dig up dirt on the bidens and spread misinformation about them through various networks including government officials and fox news personnel. After explaining this campaign to fabricate corruption charges against biden, partners concludes by saying throughout these months of working with the extensive networking done by trump allie is in Giuliani Associates including enormously thorough interviews and assignments that i undertook, there has never been any evidence that hunter or joe biden committed any crimes related to ukrainian politics. Never during any of my communications with ukrainian officials or connections to burisma did any of them confirm or provide concrete acts linking up items to illegal activities. As mr. Perna concluded, there has never been any evidence, only theories spread by people who knew exactly what they were doing and that he calls on this committee to end the goose chase and offers to come and testify. Remember this is your giulianis guy. This iss interpreter and right hand man bent a year trying to cook the books against joe biden and he offers to come testify. If anyone believes what hes saying, lets bring him in and lets hear about that crusade that they were on to smear biden by promoting the same baseless conspiracy theories this committee serves up as multileftovers everyday. At todays hearing we are going to hear about wrongdoings by hunter biden who is pleading guilty on tax charges and a gun charge next week. We will hear about the backand forth among investigators, prosecutors and a trump appointed attorney over a dozen people spend four years investigating the president s son. We will hear about how they disagreed on investigative steps and what charges to bring, all normal stuff and government investigations that does not usually lead to a congressional hearing, but one thing you will not here today is any evidence of wrongdoing by President Joe Biden or his administration. Every other tried by our colleagues to concoct this scandal about biden, this one is a complete and total bust. In fact, the ongoing case is the majority and buys us to interfere with today is actually a striking illustration of the success of the american system of independent prosecutors operating under the rule of law and outside the realm of the kind of political influence my colleagues are trying to exercise today. So what happened . The son of a sitting president of the United States lost his brother and lost his way back in 2015, as too many families around the country no drug addiction is a dark and powerful affliction and like other addicts joe biden made foolish and criminal choices, including failing to pay his taxes and owning a firearm in violation of federal law and he is now being held criminally accountable for it. His investigation began under the trump administration. It was conducted by a unit attorney for delaware donald trump appointed to his office and who attorney general bar got to conduct this investigation. In december 2020, attorney general bart expressed full confidence in ways this work saying it was being handled responsibly and professionally within the department and i have seen no reason to appoint a special counsel and i have no plans to do so before i leave. Furthermore, joe biden never publicly questioned or challenged this prosecution. When began he did not decry it as a witchhunt. He placed his trust in the fairness of the american Justice System. When he became president not only did he not use his power to halt the investigation, he cut in place trumps u. S. Attorneys over seeing it even though incoming president s usually replace u. S. Attorneys with their own appointees and his attorney general eric garland major that mr. Weiss, appointed by donald trump had authority and resources to pursue the probe and charge it however and whenever he suffered in any district in the country and in the past few weeks is hunter biden accepted a guilty plea, the president and his attorney general have done nothing to interfere with the case which is overseen by a federal judge appointed by yet donald trump. Can you imagine trump saying nothing about a witchhunt . We are not trying to squash the prosecution if it were his son. Indeed, bidens scrupulous respect for the independence of the Justice Department stands in sharp contrast to trumps spectacular disrespect for the rule of law and his zero efforts in office and outside office to get prosecutors to go after him locked up his political rivals and to suspend accountability and specific criminal cases when it comes to his friends. When Michael Flynn was investigated for lying to the pi and later convicted for it about communicating with the russians or when Paul Manafort was investigated and later convicted for bank and tax fraud or when roger stone was investigated and later convicted for lying to congress, and outraged trump repeatedly denounced the department of justice for prosecuting his cronies and reportedly got william barr to pressure prosecutors to recommend more leniency in their cases. Trump also went to dr. James comey and pushed him to pledge absolute loyalty to trump and to find a way to let go. Ultimately trump used the power of the presidency to pardon all of these convicted criminals. Unlike trumps blatant abuse of the rule of law and the relationship between the doj, there is no evidence that biden has involved himself in any way in the investigation into his own son, and investigation that has been overseen by trump appointed u. S. Attorney no matter what my gop colleagues say, and i appreciate the testimony of witnesses today, there is no evidence that hunter biden has received any kind of official favoritism in this prosecution for being joe bidens son. On the contrary, there are more than 10 million americans who have filed tax is but failed to pay them the exact crime hunter biden is pleading guilty to. The vast majority of these cases are resolved administratively or through civil settlements. Every year the irs and doj obtained convictions and sentences in your than 700 cases for tech crimes of any kind a minuscule percentage. The fact that hunter biden aced a year criminal probe involving dozens of agents and prosecutors from the irs the fbi, u. S. Attorneys office in delaware doj tax demonstrates to my mind at the very least that he received no special treatment but arguably selectively tougher treatment than the millions of evil whenever face criminal investigation are doing the same thing. My gop colleagues think the treatment of millions of tax laws or even the hemphill who raised criminal execution is too lenient, i invite them to join us democrats voting the 80 million in funding the irs that we asked in the Inflation Reduction Act last year. This money will enable the irs to make improvements to Customer Service but will also enable the agency to restore lost capabilities and enforcement to identify and prosecute tax chiefs, but there first thing republicans did this congress was about to resend that funding while disparaging these future irs employees who will do the same kind of work todays witnesses do pick senator cruz called them the Biden Shadow Army they will be going around ready to shoot some Small Business person in iowa. Today we get to witness republicans take the side of irs agents from the deep state against a trump appointed u. S. Attorney and a rich guy exercising his Second Amendment right, but now facing criminal gun and tax charges that they would call in any other circumstance purely technical. We are about to hear testimony two criminal investigators. They will describe their frustrations and disagreements with their supervisors as well as with mr. White and his team of prosecutors who the near junior varsity. We will hear about their confusion and profound misunderstandings about mr. Right and how he reviewed the evidence and made the decision about charging hunter biden. A lot of the controversy here really to the failure to distinguish between special counsel and special lawyers, but we will clear that up today. The key point is America Needs to understand the only political interference in play here is coming from donald trump and my republican colleagues. We will listen to the testimony and i thank you. The Ranking Member yields back. I would like to remind the members of the public section 103 of the text code makes taxpayer information confidential except in certain circumstances. One of those exceptions is the process the ways in Means Committee use to receive testimony from the whistleblowers and transcripts to the full house of representatives to make the information public these whistleblowers have gone above and dealing to submit information to congress in accordance with the law and we are great to them or that. The witnesses can only testified the Tax Information that has already been released through proper procedures. This means that in some instances they might have to decline to answer a question and instead submit Additional Information to the committee through the appropriate process. They are each accompanied by counsel to address questions that arise in section 6103 and are not present today to provide testimony or answer questions. I ask members to respect that process and requirements of 61 of three. I look forward to hearing what our witnesses have to say. Due to the complex nature of the matter at hand, the witnesses shall have 10 minutes or their opening testimony. I would now like to introduce our witnesses mr. Joseph siegler, a special agent with the Internal Revenue service, criminal Investigation Division specifically assigned to the International Tax and an angel crimes division. This is a group of 12 elite special agents or subject Matter Expert International Tax and other related crimes. He started his career with the irs in 2010 as a agent and has developed successfully a multitude of financial investigations, the type include Money Laundering, bank fraud, wire fraud, mail route, violations of the bank secrecy the act, income tax evasion and income tax related charges such as Identity Theft in filing claims for income tax rate. Mr. Ziegler has won awards throughout his career in recognition for his work. Mr. Shapley is a supervisory special agent of the International Tax and Financial Crimes Group. Shapley started his career with the irs in july 2009. He was detailed to the department of justice is tax division from 2013 to 2018 investigating foreign institutions. Foreign financial institutions. He was also assigned to the joint Terrorism Task force working as an officer at the fti Washington Office in the fti baltimore office. Mr. Shapley was promoted to supervisory special agent of the elite i tfc group in 2018 he also served as assistant agent in charge of both the new york office and chicago is. I went to akin thank both gentlemen or their willingness to come forward and share their testimony today for the members of this committee for the American People. Pursuant to Committee Rule 9g, the witnesses will please stand and raise their right hands. Do you solemnly swear, affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god . Let the record show that the witnesses all answered in the affirmative. We appreciate you being here today and we look forward to your testimony. That me remind witnesses that we have read your statement and they will appear in all in the hearing record. Please press the button on your microphone in front of you so it is on and members can hear you. I recognize Esther Ziegler to please begin. Thank you. Ranking member can, and members of the committee, today i sit here before you not as a hero or victim, but as a whistleblower compelled to disclose the truth. And coming from what i believe i am risking my career, reputation and my casework outside of the investigation we are here to discuss. I ultimately made the decision to come forward after what i believed were multiple attempts at blowing the whistle in the Internal Revenue service, at the Internal Revenue service. No one should be above the law regardless of your political affiliation. I humbly view my role here today providing the facts as i best understood them and the public consider the facts to determine the best path to read. I recognize why i was present at the start of this investigation and was closely involved with the investigation for roughly five years. I am just a part of the story. Others including my colleague and supervisor gary shapley who is here with me today have their own views and understandings of what was during this investigation. I have been an agent with the irs to 10. In 2007 i received my undergraduate degree from ohio university, my mba from John Carroll University prior to starting my career i worked at ernst young as an external auditor. Throughout my career with the irs, i have worked a variety of vessel criminal tax and Money Laundering investigations. I transitioned to being a part of the International Tax and Financial Crimes Group out of the washington, d. C. Office. I was the lead irs case agent on the hunter biden investigation. I have recently discovered that people are saying and must be more edible because i am a democrat who happens to be married to a man. I am no more credible than this man next to me due to my Sexual Orientation or my political beliefs. The truth is my credibility comes today from my job experience with the irs and my intimate knowledge of the agencys standard procedures. I was raised and i have always tried to do what is right. Although i do have supporters, others have said i am a traitor to the Democratic Party and that i am causing more division in our society. I am for you to consider that if you are in my position with the facts as i have dated them, ask yourself if you would be doing the same thing. I hope that i am an example to other ultra bt people out there who are questioning doing the right thing at the potential cost of the house and others. We should always do the right thing no matter how painful the process might be. I kind of equally this experience and feelings i encountered when coming out. It was one of the hardest things i ever had to go through. I contemplated scenarios that would have an regrettable mama but i did what is right and standing here in front of you today. I would first like to take a minute to thank people for their help answer. First off god for giving me the strength and courage to get through this process, my husband has been my rock has put up with me, and has had to deal with this personal information being out my attorney has agreed to represent me through this letter pro bono instrument has provided me so much help and guidance. My colleagues from the hunter biden investigation, the work that was done on this case is tremendous, but seems to be overshadowed by what is happening here today and i want to say to the Investigative Team that i am thankful for having worked with you i also want to thank my family and friends back home in northeast ohio and georgia. I do not live in the d. C. Area. I had to buy here and i have had to pay outofpocket for all my travel related expenses in being a whistleblower. On that note i would like to make another that i have not accepted a single payment anyone for being a whistleblower. First, mr. Chairman, you have my written statement and testimony before the committee. I would like to touch on briefly seven specific matters. First, in a recent letter to congress Esther Wright stated he had been granted ultimate authority over this matter, but later they did in the same later discharging authorities geographically needed and that he would need a President Biden appointed u. S. Attorney to partner with him and charging the case mr. White stated he was making all decisions necessary to preserve the integrity of the prosecution consistent with federal law, the principles of federal prosecution and departmental regulations. In the internal, and the criminal tax manual chapter 10 on the doj websites, tax Division Policies dates that cases involving individuals who failed to file tax returns or pay a tax but who also commit acts of evasion or obstruction should be charged as felonies to avoid an equitable treatment. In early august 2022, prosecutors from the department of Justice Tax Division drafted a 99 page memorandum. In so they were recommending for approval felony and misdemeanor charges for the 2017 tax years. That did not happen here and i am not sure why and as a special agent on this case i thought the felony charges were well supported. When considering the elements of felony tax gave under the criminal code there are key considerations. In the criminal context, willfulness is defined as voluntary, intentional violation of a known eagle duty. The tax loss is the monetary loss of the government. In 2020, hunter biden his tax returns are being prepared, which included his 2018 tax return. During the 2020 time. By Hunter Bidens own account he was sober, newly married and writing his memoir. Hunter bidens account requested that he sign a representation letter dating that all the deductions were for business purposes and were being reported appropriately. Statements hunter biden made in his book the contradicted what he was conducting on his 2018 returns while writing his memoir, hunter stated i hold up inside the chateau for the first six weeks and learned how to cook crack. Hunter biden allegedly falsely claimed business deductions for payments made to a hotel room suppose a drug dealer, club memberships, falsely reference on the wire as a golf membership, hotels he was blacklisted from and a Columbia University tuition payment for his adult daughter. All of these items were used to support the willfulness element for felony tax evasion. These false deductions claimed by hunter biden caused a false return to be prepared that anna reported his income by approximately 200 7000 and a loss to the u. S. Treasury. Second, with respect to the 2014 tax year, hunter biden did not report any of the money earned for the 2014 tax year which would have been a tax loss to the government of 124,000. According to my previous testimony hunter biden did not reap this income to the irs or pay tax on the source of income there is nothing that i see in the public documents in action against hunter biden that indicates that hunter biden will be required to pay tax on this income from 2014 or this tax return. I would like to note that the plea agreement may provide a greater understanding. I would like to make clear that the charging documents of the district of delaware hunter biden was charged with failure to timely pay his taxes for 2017 and 18 in excess of 100,000 for each tax year. On his tax returns, hunter reported taxes owed of approximately 581,000 and 620,000 respectively. This tax amount in 2018 would not have included the alleged additional owings from the filed false return of 106,000. As i read the public documents of the department of justice action against hunter biden there is nothing that indicates hunter biden will be required to amend his false tax return for 2018. A false tax return that includes proper deductions, improper deductions or prostitutes, clubs and his Adult Childrens tuition. Again, perhaps once the plea agreement is released it will provide us with a greater understanding the decision to bring felony counts against hunter biden was agreed to by both prosecutors and investigators in the fall of 2021 i met with prosecutors assigned to the case and we all agreed and decided which charges we are going to recommend in the prosecution report which included felony counts related to 2014 and 18. In march of 2022, the prosecutors requested discovery from the Investigative Team and present the case to the d. C. U. S. Attorneys office. In later meanings in early august of 2022, the prosecutors, all attorneys agreed to recommend felony and misdemeanor charges for the 2017 18, in 19 tax years. The department of Justice Tax Division attorney sent an email about the process of bringing charges to include felony and misdemeanors tax charges in separate districts. Delaware and los angeles. Less than a month later we met with mr. White, he stated that he agreed with us regarding the 2014 and 2015 tax estimator and felony charges but that this could somehow affect the later year misdemeanor and felony charges that he conveyed were stronger. Despite these facts the plea deal that this being discussed occurred to this day i do not have a reason why that occurred. From my perspective, this might not have been problematic had the investigation been handled in the ordinary course. As i have previously testified and is contained in my written testimony, i have outlined some incidents in which assigned prosecutors did not appear to while the normal investigative process select the investigation and put in place unnecessary approvals and roadblocks from effectively and efficiently investigating the case. A number of times we were not able to follow the facts. I am happy to respond to questions concerning these instances. I will also note that while impression has been conveyed by the u. S. Attorney in delaware, that had similar powers of a special counsel in this case referring to do as needed, that was not the case. It appeared to me based on what i experienced that the u. S. Attorney in delaware and our investigation was hamstrung, vented and marginalized by doj officials as well as other u. S. Attorneys. I still think that a special counsel is necessary for this investigation. To further handle investigations that are spun off and relate to hunter biden, but may not have been human delaware. Lastly i would like to conclude by Encouraging Congress and the administration took the that are establishing an official channel for federal investigators to pull the emergency cord and raised the issue of the appointments at the special counsel for consideration by senior officials. I do not want my colleagues at the irs the i and other rural enforcement agencies to go through my frustrating journey, to go through my frustrating journey. I believe such a path will strengthen the publics confidence in their institutions and their fair and equal treatment of all americans under the law thank you and i look over to thank you very much. We recognize mr. Shapley. Thank you for inviting me to testify here today. I want to thank every member and staff on both sides of the aisle her work, for the work you do to represent your constituents. My name is gary shapley, i worked as a special agent for 14 years. I have recently become a Senior Leader in the organization, i supervise told agents of the Financial Crimes Group. I have are the United States attorneys in multiple districts and have supervisor investigated cases across the country. I have executed undercover operations or search warrants for more than a dozen club trees i have investigated and managed some of the largest cases are covering more than 3. 5 billion of the united its taxpayer. In this country we believe in the rule of law and the ice to everyone there should not be a to check Justice System depending on who you are and who you are connected to. In this case there was. Based on my experience, i am here to tell you that the delaware Attorneys Office and is handling the hunter biden tax investigation was different from any other case in my 14 years with the irs. At every stage decisions were made the benefit of the subject of this investigation. Example prosecutors concealed contents of Hunter Bidens laptop from investigators. The doj slow walks interviews concerning documents and executing search warrants. Once that were ready as early as april of 2020 but we delayed until after the november 2020 election and never pursued. Investigators are not allowed to live up to what that message is from hunters i caught back up where he suggested he was sitting next to his father. Leslie will cited the optics of executing a search warrant at bidens residence is the deciding factor for not allowing it even though she agreed that probable cause existed prosecutors instructed investigators not to ask about the big guy when conducting interviews. The biden Transition Team was tipped off about interviews and i prefer the investigation went over. My fbi counterpart confirmed that to this committee and recent testimony are the result was only one witness spoke to investigators that day. These are just some of the examples of how our investigation went. Im not here to support agendas on either side i am here because our tax system relies on the american having confidence that it is administered equally to everyone regardless of your last name or political connections. The handling of this case was inappropriate. It does not matter whether it happened under a republican or democrat administration, whether you agree with my concerns about the unethical preferential treatment in this case you can be sure that my testimony is true and correct to the best of my ability. Unfortunately the way this has already been handled by some members in the media have done immeasurable damage to future whistleblowers. I have been attacked and accused of being a liar or liquor. All by people who know nothing about me or the facts of this case took some action if i should even be called a whistleblower suggesting they disclosures are not legally protected merely because they do not like what i am saying we have seen this issue on the other foot before and summer publicans have made the same error, so there is to blame for both sides. The cycle of eliminating Government Employees to report what they believe is wrongdoing has to stop. When i first started noticing deviations around june 2020, i did not run to congress to air grievances. Instead i documented mike and made internal disclosures dimension of command. I tried to give the prosecutors the benefit of the doubt or a long time. After our investigation concluded by the end of 2021, the irs recommended charging hunter biden with multiple felonies and misdemeanors for the tax years 2014 through 2019. The delaware United States attorneys and trial attorneys supported charting the felonies in the demeanors listed in my Interview Transcripts which were officially referred to as the text efficient 2020 to pick this case was presented to the washington, d. C. U. S. Attorneys Office Around march 2022. In april 2022 hearing, attorney general garland was asked how the American People can be confident into the president s own son. Responded by saying because we put the investigation in the hands of a child appointee. He led congress to believe the case was insulated from improper political influence because all decisions were being made exclusively by david white, but that was not true. The Justice Department allowed the president s political appointees to weigh in on whether to charge the president fun. After the attorney for d. C. Matthew kurtz appointed by biden refused to bring charges in march 2020 to i watched attorney white tell a room full of Senior Leaders on october 7th 2022 that he was not the deciding person and whether charges were filed. That was my redline. I had already seen a pattern of preferential treatment and obstruction. He was admitting that what the American People believed based on attorney general sworn statement was false i can no longer stay silent. November 2020 to the statute of limitations with set to expire for the 2014 and 18 charges in d. C. Those included the 2014 felonies for the attempt to evade regarding income earned by hunter biden in those years. The statute of limitations has been extended through an agreement with Hunter Bidens defense counsel and they were willing to extend a past member 2022. White allowed us to expire. Prosecutors present between 17 and 2018 and 2019 criminal tax charges to the district of california around september 2020 to, only after bidens nominee mark estrada was confirmed. In january of this year i learned estrada had declined to bring the charges. For all purposes, the case was dead with the exception of one john charge. Yet, when senator grassley asked attorney general garland about the case in 2023, garland testified the United States attorney has been advised he has full authority to make this referral to bring cases in other districts if he needs to. He has been advised he should get anything he needs. After the october 7th redline meeting, there was no way to reconcile the United States attorney statement from his offices actions and his offices actions with garland public testimony. I am 100 certain of what delaware u. S. Attorneys office did in seeking approval from political appointees in d. C. And in you. The New York Times reported they confirmed the charges in california plenty of other witnesses are family with these facts in addition to those private admissions. I encourage them to step forward and tell the truth about what they heard let me be clear, although these facts contradict garlands testimony, they raise questions for you to investigate and to have evidence that garland knowingly light to congress. Whether garland knew his testimony was false is for you and the Inspector General to determine, not me. The same is true for the three letters of congress june 2023. It is for others to investigate and determine whether those letters contain knowingly false statements. However, it is clear that attorney was a story to the American Public has evolved has gone echoing attorney general garland to just one month later corroborating the disclosures we made about womens authority. He first said he could charge anywhere and then admitted he is limited to go beyond those limits he later admitted he had to get special authority. Garland said white has authority. He said he has been assured he will get authority. If you never denied attorney general garland on october 7th, the American Public deserves to hear why he allowed only 14 and 2015 d. C. Charges to expire. No number of carefully worded denials or evolving halftruths can overshadow the start act. White and garland will each be sitting before these committees one day. They will have to admit that despite all their appreciation, the fact is that this case was presented to to mike appointed attorneys in d. C. And california, but no charges were brought in this district tells you everything you need to know. I dont claim to be privy to the communications, but attorney white told us that he was not the deciding person, that he had denied special authority after d. C. Declined charges and that the california declines he will have to request special authority to again. I understood the gravity of those admissions whether full responsibility lies on a attorney white or garland, it is for the public to decide. When i decided after october 7th to come forward and i began researching was of our attorneys, i wanted to abide by the law in every way as i navigated the grand jury secrecy statutes. I carefully filed the process to the letter with the advice of counsel every step. I am fortunate to be represented by mark weigle, prosecutor for 25 years including five years with the Just Department text division. I am grateful for oversight and nonprofit groupshe was previously nominated by president right into the protection board and unanimously confirmed by the United States senate. While some have tried to paint me with a partisan brush because this organization employs former staffers to gop members on capitol hill for their expertise. Biden, President Biden, and the department of justice. They are not working for free. It has been reported in Public Services attorneys appear to be representing President Biden and the department of justice, and they are not working for free. There is a large fund paying for legal fees for the biden attorneys. They have virtually unlimited resources to pursue their agenda, while my motives are questioned simply for finding competent assistance. Groups such as empower oversight and whistleblower aid are the only path to ensure whistleblowers like me received competent advice. My intention was not to beer sold source of information, and i implore you to obtain as much evidence as possible from as many sources as possible to be able to fully form your conclusions. I am confident that after youve done that, both sides will find serious issues with the hunter biden investigation that closely align with my testimony. I am on your team, whether we agree on every politically sensitive issue, or not. There is no benefit for me blowing a whistle on this case absolutely none. The only money that goes into my bank account every two weeks is from my employment with the federal government. I am still a supervisor leaving complex investigations. Unfortunately, to this day, i supervisors are making attacks against me for making disclosures. They attacked investigators in the pages of the Washington Post and threaten the prosecutors of career suicide if they brought charges against the president s son. One of the biden family attorneys sent a 10 page error filled letter that attacked me with innuendo, false statements, and baseless speculation that headley information to the Washington Post. These statements are false. In conclusion, the American People for whom this bodyworks,i i implore you to look at the fact not statements from either side of the aisle. I am the average americans citizen who wonders about how i will send my children to college or if i will have enough money to retire, just like most people watching this today. Im the first person in my family to go to college. It was not an ivy league school, and they dont have a network of rich and powerful friends to weather the storm. I am putting myself at risk for the American People who support me and for those who do not. At the end of the day, im just a smalltown kid from norwich, new york, who will never compromise my integrity. I will never forget who i am, where i come from, and all the people in my life what made me who i am today. Thank you all for your time. Thank you for those fi excellent opening statements. We will now begin the questioning phase, and i will begin questioning. Here on the committee, we focused on following the evidence specifically the money trail through bank records. I wanted to discuss if used civic payments made to hunter biden and the biden family. Democrats and leftwing media are also saying there is no evidence, but lets get into the evidence. I want you to direct to pages 100 and 199 of your transcript. How much money did hunter biden and his associates are the of for the room Romanian Company you identified . That amount would be from romania this the approximate total transfers from the Romania Company wouldve been through when 1 million. How much did they receive from us date Energy Hk Limited through the robinson whopper llc . Total transfers was 3 million. Was there a 100,000 payment for ces the infrastructure to Hunter Bidens professional corporation . Yes, chairman. Approximately how much was transferred through huds in om west 3 . The total transfers was 3. 7 million. How much money did hunter biden at this Business Associates receive from the Ukrainian Company . They pay to everyone involved 6. 5 million. They also played Blue Star Strategies and a law firm hundreds of thousands of dollars, bringing the total to over 7 million. Is that correct . That is correct. 7. 3 million. This brings the total amount of foreign income streams received to approximately 17 million, correct . That is correct. What was the purpose of analyzing the money, and do you have documents to support your findings . The purpose of documenting g the foreign sources is, as part of a normal International Tax investigation, we have to figure out where the money is coming from. You have to follow the money trail. As a part of that process, we have to follow different transactions, identify foreign entities that may be paying a person, and then we go and get those records. Hopefully you can provide that to the committee. Any records regarding those transactions this we love evidence on the side of the aisle. You identified other biden family members who receive relevant payments to your patient, such as the grandchildren. And you explain why you wanted to interview them . As a part of the investigation, you want to interview people who might have received the money, who might have had deductions that were deducted on the tax return. As a multitude of reasons why you would want to talk to family members. Is a common for grandchildren to receive money from foreign nationals and significant business firms . So i dont know the reason or whats behind any of these payments that might have been made to specific family members, but i can speak to what was in our transcript. Thank you. I would invite the media here today to review the bank records memorandum, which closely matches the irs figures. We will have a supplemental memorandum discussing payments from ukraine, russia, and other sources very soon based on records we have seen but havent disclosed yet. You have confirm for me what ive been saying all along the lives as the committee is accomplished in five months what it took the department of justice five years to figure out. I want to turn to president ryden. You stated that there were certain investigators apps you could not take that could have led to President Biden. And you tell us what steps you wanted to take credits . There were multiple instances in this investigation were there are reference is to the father of the subject, president ryden, and in the course of any normal investigation, when the subjects father is somehow related to the finances of the subject, we would have to go and get that information to properly vet the financial flows of money and investigation to determine what we end up charging. There was a tweet, or a message in the laptop from hunter biden to kevin with the efc. It said, quote, the bidens are the best i know at doing exactly what the chairman wants from this partnership. Now, the chairman he is referring to is chairman yee of cfc. Is that correct . In that stream, i believe so. Yes. And you tell me what the bidens are best at . You understand what he would have meant by that . This is a chinese company, and the Ranking Member referred to it it is the same entity that paved outlook the money he got indicted for. But this is another solicitation from hunter biden, and he refers to the bidens plural, and they are best at doing what the chairman wants. I think that is very concerning to our committee, because this is a Chinese Communist already owned entity. This is of meconcern to our nationals to dirty. I didnt know if you have any information with respect to that comment there. It was something that we clearly needed to follow up on, and that was really one of the major deviations in this case, is that investigators ask to follow and take some investigative steps to review that, and it just simply wasnt supported by the prospect tutors. Further delving into what that means, i simply cant do. I can promise you, we are not going to stop on this committee until we understand what he fully met by that message to a Chinese Communist official. And i Say Something about that . Thank you for that question. There was a long what that message contained in that that was only a portion of that. What we can do or what we can go back is that we can turn that over to the committee. They can vote to release it, and that information can be available. Thank you very much. I now yield. I want to thank both the witnesses for their testimony and for appearing with us today. It seems to me that a lot of your test mohney has been about the problem of process tutorial discretion in the traditional tugofwar between inves gators character is the want to charge as many offenses as they come up ross, and prosecutors who are more at tuned to the rigors of the courtroom and forensic evidence, and i see it more from the present users standpoint then the prosecutor standpoint. But when you conceded that there are lots of crimes that are identified by investigators that are not actually charged by prosser leaders routinely. I will give you an example. In the recent indictments of donald trump for retaining government documents that he unlawfully took, according to the indictment, he was charged only with possessing those documents that were recovered after the august 2022 search warrant. But he had hundreds of documents that were recovered before that. 15 boxes that was the prosecutors decided not to charge any of those offenses. They said they were going to take the most egregious offenses and charge those. As i unfamiliar to you . That kind of decision by prostic eater . I cant speak to anything related to the trump investigation, but the issue here is that it wasnt just investigators. In exhibit two, in my testimony, it clearly shows the recommendation report, where it says right in the dock image they agreed with those recommended charges. And then again, especially sc alluded to in late 2020 two lip this they were recommended to whom . The department of Justice Tax Division for approval, discretion. Writes, but then it all went to the u. S. Attorney in delaware . That is not entirely accurate, because the tax division, up your march 16th of 2023, had not yet approved, provided discretion, or deny charges. He had no authority to charge many of those without the department of tax divisions approval beforehand. I would like to Say Something about this real quick. I will come back to. I only have a limited time. You say Hunter Bidens unpaid taxes were around 2 million and has now paid those back tax is. And he has been criminally charged for not paying taxes. Will you just explain how people can be charged for not paying taxes even after they have made amends and gone forward to pay them . Under the statute, when someone fails to timely pay their tax is, usually due april 15th, once that date occurs, they have a no Tax Liability and failed to pay it, the crime has already been committed. The fact that they pay the taxes after, thats a mitigating factor that the judge can use their discretion at sentencing. This does not include the overall 100,000 that was not charged you made yourself clear that you thought there were additional charges laid on the table and not pursued in the trump appointee. But you testified that the critical moment in your ou decision to blow the whistle in the hunter biden investigation was the october 7th meeting, 2022, with u. S. Attorney david weiss. Up until that point, you said you were willing to chalk up the differences in prostic eaters did the typical prosecutor versus prostic eater thing, which is what i think this is all about. You say on page 28, if i wasnt in the october 7th meeting, by redline might not have been crossed, and i think you reaffirm that today. What crossed you a red line is that your meeting, you would just mr. Weiss as saying, he did not have the authority to bring charges and d. C. Or california without the approval of the District Attorneys in those districts. That is correct. But in a letter he sent in june, i have been granted ultimate authority above this matter including responsibility for deciding where, when, and whether to file charges. He considered outside of delaware. The usual doj practice would be to contact the u. S. Attorneys office for the district in question and determine whether he wants to partner on the case. If they were declined, he would get the authority to bring the charge himself under special attorney status from the attorney general pursuant to section 515. To try to clear this up, lets go back to march 2022, where as you explained, the u. S. Attorney for d. C. The client to partner with mr. Weiss to bring the 2014 and 2013 charges to d. C. After that decision, he continued to discuss those es charges with all of you. On page 39 of your transcript, you describe how you had a meeting in which the u. S. Attorney expressed some concerns about those charges, including that in 2015, hunter biden was in the throes of his drug addiction after the death of his brother. After that meeting, he tells you, and i quote, i am still weighing it. In september 2022, mr. Weiss was telling you that he was the one weighing whether or not to bring the charges. Is that correct . Coming back to the october 2007 meeting, he said that, quote, he decided not to charge 2014 and 2000 15. It seems to me this october 7 2022 meeting is just a misunderstanding. That after the u. S. Attorney in d. C. Declined to partner, mr. Wr weiss took a good hard look at the charges himself and ultimately decided not to charge them, and therefore not seek special attorney status. He may have been wrong as you guys make your case works, but it is his decision. That is not supported by fact. His own admission in the october 27th meeting, i documented contemporaneously. He contradicts what you are saying. He doesnt agree with what youre saying. I wasnt at that ymeeting, but what was said at the meeting may be a little ambiguous or unclear today. Mr. Weisss letter to chairman jordan could not be more clear. He had, quote, alterable authority over this decision, including where, when, and whether to file the charges. If theres any ambiguity, it has to go to to Donald Trumps handpicked u. S. Attorney for rhode island. Can i Say Something real quick on that . I had two things that i wanted to bring up. There are a lot of different tax cases out there that include misdemeanors and holidays. Theres a lot of reasons why we charge the felony, we might on charge the misdemeanor. When you have a felony charge with a misdemeanor that you have to charge the felony. And in this case, they did not charge the felony. There is one more point to this. When you say you have to, is that a department of justice rule . Be back that is in their manual that you have to charge the felony in order to avoid an equitable treatment of tax payers. But whether or not the evidence supports it . That goes back to the point of, if the certain deductions that were taken on the tax return, that is for you guys to decide whether the felony was there or not. Thats for the u. S. Attorney to decide. Im afraid we are not going to be able to investigate every tax case in america. Mr. Smith from missouri. Thank you. I want to thank you both again for your test only and your willingness to come forward and tell the truth for the American Public. And i apologize of the behaviorh of some of our colleagues and how the press has treated you for doing what is right. The American People can see it. Included in the documents you provided to the ways and Means Committee, is a document labeled ibid. Two and the transcript of your testimony, which is a special agent report. What is this document, and what recommendations are made in this document . This is the prosecution recommendation report that the irs agents produced at the end s of an investigation, when they are going to recommend he prosecutor addition. Its an incredibly robust document. There are several thousand pages, because each of these, the facts and the elements in this particular report, the elements of each violation show which piece of evidence meets that element. So it recommended felony charges for 2018, 2009 in, and misdemeanor charges for 2015, 2006 team, 2017, 2008. He spoke with prosecutors and work handinhand with prostic while this was being drafted, and they clearly believed that these violations were met, and they supported this document and what was sent into the tax division for approval on february 25th. What level of confidence does the irs need to recommend charges like the felony counts listed in this document. Each violation has each element listed in this report, and evidence has shown that underneath all of this, this report goes through internal departments, irs, criminal investigation and in addition to the prosecutors agreeing that Senior Leadership and the irs criminal investigation also personally reviewed this report and approved it to be sent to the tax division. Are you surprised that prosecutors announced a plea agreement with hunter biden under which he would only plead guilty to violations of two misdemeanor charges . The guilty plea is outside of my control, but what i can say, is its not what the investigator thought. Especially not what i thought, that felony charges were proven in this case. The prosecutors again and again agreed with that assessment. The United States attorney also agreed with these, because he went to the d. C. U. S. Attorney to ask him to partner. You dont ask someone to partner with you if you dont agree with those charges. When he got denied and was declined as he said in the october 7 2022 meeting. It states in there that even leslie wolf agreed with these charges going forward, the assistant prosecutor. On page 32 of the transcript of your testimony, you discuss the need to interview Hunter Bidens Adult Children that you listed earlier of hunter biden included on his tax returns. You also testified that assistant united dates attorney leslie wolf told you that you would get into hot water. In other cases that youve worked over your career, have you ever had a prostic or tell you that you couldnt interview a relevant witness . So there are certain things that come into whether or not we talked for a witness or not. If they are an attorney, if there is some thing that comes up to my cause caution to interviewing that witness, but have never been told we cant approach someone to interview them as a part of an investigation. There are certain situations to where you have to do a further analysis of the information you might get if they are an attorney. In this case, we needed to talk to witt this is for things on the tax return. In this case, it was the Adult Children that we needed to talki to. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from illinois for five minutes. Thank you for your service to this country. Really appreciate you coming here and appearing in this capacity. First of all, i see at page 12 of your transcript, you start laying out a series of concerns you had with regard to various people and different issues related to this investigation. You say, quote, i started this investigation in november 2000 10 after reviewing bank deposits. Then you say career irs staff were initially not supportive of starting the investigation. In 2019, joe biden was not the president , right . Correct. You had a concern about attorney general bill barr consolidating the series in cases what was the potential issue i saw was working the case delaware . We were working with a small u. S. Attorneys office who might not have ever worked a case of this caliber. Of course, bill barr was appointed by donald trump, correct . Yes, that is correct. Let me turn to another concerning a test money. You were concerned about the quality of the prosecutors. On page 14, you say, quote, the prosecutors with the jv squad and they werent up to the task of handling such a big case. No sir, u. S. Attorney weiss was also appointed by donald trump, right . The actual s nomination and what went into i am not asking you why. Im just saying, he was appointed by donald trump, correct . That is correct. On page 21, you talk about your concerns with this investigation having been made over being publicized for the world to know. You said, quote. One of the first disagreements i had was the idea of going public. Now, sir, this was in march of 2019. Joe biden was not the president c then, was he . I dont recall the exact date he announced he was going to run for president the thats not my question. Joe biden was not the president , correct . That is correct. Let me turn to you for a second here. You raised a series of concerns in your deposition transcript. One is this. You are concerned with the complexities of the election cycle and potential delays that rose in connection with the cycle. On page 23, i remember there were always times or we were always on an impending election cycle. It was always the elections being brought up in early 2020. Now, sir, joe biden was not the president at that time either, was he . The answer to your question e is no, he was not. But i dont see where you referenced it. Page 23. You are talking about how the elation cycle is the leg decisions by the prosecution, and it turns out the delay of eli his cycle is happening in a time when joe biden was not the president. Im sorry, this is the other transcript. Thats why i couldnt find it. You both shared concerns about delays related to the elections cycle, but at that time, joe biden was not the president. I believe at that time he was the nominee for president. He was not the president s, was he . Its just a simple question. Joe biden was not the president in the president ial primaries in 2020. That is correct. Sir, finally, you said that warrants were ready as early as april 2020 two begin searching for. But actions werent taken with regard to those warrants. Joe biden was not the president in april 2020, was he . Im confused about your line of questioning. We are talking about an election that he was now a part of. He didnt have to have was he the president at the time in april 2020 . That is been asked and answered. And what is the answer . The answer is . It is no. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Chairman, can i finish . It is clear that he was not the president , but the election is for the purpose of electing a president , and joe biden at the time was for president of the United States. Therefore, the over election clauses with doj policy took effect. It wasnt until september 4th 2020 that the Public Department of integrity said they cant take any further actions in that case. And as early as april to june of 2020, the department of justice and the u. S. Attorneys office was already invoked the election as a reason not to perform the search warrants. We got a lot of question is here. We now recognize mr. Jordan of ohio. The first letter on june 7th, he said had been granted ultimate authority over the matter, including responsibility for deciding where, when, and whether to file charges. Later that sent month, he sent me a second letter saying, no i dont. I dont have that authority. And then june 30th, he says, no, i cant. What happens between those two events . Your testimony went public. He went, oh, my goodness, i got to change my story because now the truth is coming out. It sounds like to me that the prosecutors and the investigators were in agreement for most of the invest negation, and then we get to october of 2022. That meeting is word he told you something. Yes. He told me he was not the deciding person or whether charges were filed or not. He told me they have declined to allow charges and he would request a special Counsel Authority from maine doj and f was denied. Are you the only guy in that meeting . I was not. There were seven total people including me. That is correct. Have any of them come forward to say what you just said is not true . They have not. No one is saying what you said is not true. Did you memorialize that . s that day when i returned, i put in an email to two Senior Executives i your agency. I got the email here, it is exhibit 10. You were that email, right . Sent to mr. Walton and mr. Bettendorf. Who are those . Matt bise dorf and walton was a special agent in charge of the washington, d. C. Field office. Did mr. Walton get back to you . Yes, he did. He said, thanks, gary. You covered it all. He didnt say thanks, gary, but you are wrong. Thats what happened. You spelled that just what you told me a few minutes ago, what mr. Weiss will do that meeting. When echols public last month, mr. White says, ive got to change rest tori. He says i stand by what i wrote, but i wish to band. I wish to fix it. He had to go further in july when he sent a letter to senator graham and said, to clarify again, they have changed their story and you guys havent. Do you think mr. Weiss was consistent with the investigators up until this meeting and then he changed qwest mark what you think happened . What i can say is that the story has been changing from i the department of justice and u. S. Attorney weiss. I think the only person thats really had any documents with the corroborate or are our own. Anyone with common sense can see whats happening. You said i have discussions with main justice. Whoever it was, i dont know, but he had discussions with the people at main justice, and suddenly, things changed. That happened on october 7th. And until october 7th, the investigators and the prosecutors, they were in agreement. Here are the facts, heres how we do it. Lets go, and then something pp changes. And i think it is what mr. Weiss conveyed to senator graham when he says he had conversations at main justice. It looks pretty obvious what happened. Initially, everyone was pounding their chest. David weiss has full authority. Now suddenly, he doesnt, because you guys came forward and told the truth. The chair recognizes the gentleman from massachusetts. I like to think those willing to work with the committee to accomplish our work. I am surprised, though. There seems to be a new level of markers a year. As a longstanding member of this committee, i think most of the political interference and was sweetheart deals look like. And i think context is very important. In 2017, we had a situation where if National Security adviser and trump campaigns target Michael Flynn was indicted. Indicted by a federal jury, federal grand jury, he pled guilty twice and he lied to fbi agents about his communications with the russian government prior to the inauguration of President Trump. He was only National Security advisor for 22 days. Byebye colleagues on the other side of the aisle has zero interest in looking into that case. And in response, the president at the time, President Trump, repeatedly and publicly attacked the case and the agents who brought its, who said he was he also described the prosecution as a disgrace, and claimed that those who investigated mr. Flynn were guilty of treason. Those are public statements made by a city president attacking the di. Despite the fact that mr. Flynn pled guilty twice, President Trumps attorney general personally intervened in the case, and that led the department of justice to have the case dismissed on grounds that a federal judge found dubious, to say the least. In the case of roger stone, a federal jury found him guilty in 2019 of obstructing a congressional investigation into russian interference in the 2016 president ial election by lying to congress and witness tampering. In response, a city president , i President Trump, immediately took to twitter, accusing them of employing a double standard activating a miscarriage of justice. President trump also attacked the rightist leading senior officials to overrule the federal prostic peters who were investigated and brought on the case. This blatant political intervention, not complain about at all by my republican colleagues at the time, caused those prosecutors, so the sum of them, to resign from the case. President trump actually grad congratulated him. Thats what political intervention looks like. In the case of former comp who worked to elect a propresident in ukraine, and was convicted in 2018 of being in tax fraud, ultimately playing guilty to conspiracy against the dates. President trump did a very sad day for our country. And in terms of sweetheart deals, in september of 2020, at the end of his term, President Trump granted full pardons to his close allies, his house. Flint, stone, and manafort, allowing them to escape hu responsibility for their numerous crimes. Now that is a sweetheart deal. They got away with everything. Malik hunter biden, was playing dumb. The widely publicized facts of his drug addiction. And this was a trump appointed u. S. Attorney and President Biden do not seek to remove him, which normally happens when a new president comes into office. He has the full right to remove them and never did so. I yield back. Chernow recognizes mr. Timmons from South Carolina. What he tried to help simplify this for the american. We are here today, because ours officials are working. The fbi have transformed from a balanced apparatus of justice into the political weapon of the left, a process that i believe began during the obama administration. They actively pursue individuals based on their ideological beliefs, specifically targeting donald trump, who posed a specific threat to the political left. Upon his election, their hatred for trump permeated throughout their work, attempting to cripple his administration at almost every turn. The fbi the doj and the irs have worked not only protect the criminal actions of the biden family, to continue person a President Trump. What it really is, is a system to prosecute individuals within the trump orbit due to their hatred for President Trump. Simultaneously, they cover up the crimes of the current president and members of his family all ball issuing perfectly planned indictments against President Trump. Today we are joined by two whistleblowers from the irs. There are also whistleblowers from within the fbi and doj. All these people are stepping forward now, because the American People have entrusted the House Majority to republicans, granting a subpoena power. With gavels in hand, we now possess crucial evidence just month into our investigations. The American People can see plain as day the corruption and criminal actions of the biden family. We are here to do the jobs that the doj have failed to fulfill their duties to properly investigate and their International Bribery schemes which resulted in Million Dollar payout. Thank you both for coming forward. I cannot imagine how difficult it has been for you and your family. The best use of my time is up simplify the complex scheme for the American People. Help do the job the doj, irs and fbi just refused to do. We talk about china, romania, ukraine the scheme was born in 2014 in ukraine and then replicated in other countries. Ukraine is a proof of concept, if you will. This is the scheme. Foreign client has a problem, pays a biden. President biden travels to the country, leverages u. S. Influence to force a favorable outcome for the client. Thats the scheme. That is the scheme. So lets just start with ukraine so i can show you proof of concept. In 2014, he has a problem. They want to get their stock list and on wall street, but the general is investigating corruption, and they cant get the outcome they want in new york. So what do they do . The hunter biden and pay him millions of dollars. My only question to you is going to be to page nine of the transcript. Is it accurate to say he received millions of dollars . That would be accurate. To the American People, i want to point out briefly that hunter biden has zero qualifications in business in general, but he does have the big guy. November 2nd, 2015, an executive says that he is demanding highlevel u. S. Officials this is an email obtained from Hunter Bidens laptop. Hunter biden confirms the big guy is on the way. Vice President Biden is coming. Have no fear. Biden has an official visit using u. S. Tax dollars, and threatens to withhold a billion dollar Loan Guarantee if he is and fired. He lied about this during the campaign. He specifically said it wasnt true. Sure enough, he is fired. If you have any questions about whether he fired him, january 2018, he brags about it years later. Ladies and gentlemen, the American People that is the scheme. That is the proof of concept. They replicated it again and again because they never dreamt biden would be president. No one did. But he is our president. Because of his actions and because of him selling policy decisions to adversaries abroad for personal gain, he is vulnerable. He is vulnerable. And our National Security is vulnerable because of it. We are not here to prosecute hunter biden. We dont care about hunter biden. We care about National Security decisions and whether our president is compromised. Thats why we are here. With that, mr. Chairman, i m yield back. Chernow recognizes mr. Conley from virginia. Thank you, mr. Chairman, i think you both for being here ou today. My friend from South Carolina said he was going to simplify ha for the American People. I think he succeeded. So simple as to be unrecognizable. And if we are going to talk about ukraine and charisma, lets remember that the president was impeached over the phone call to the president of ukraine, wanting to get dirt on this very subject, on this very individual with this very company, and withheld military equipment desperately needed, including javelins, which are very useful in antitank warfare, to get it. For which he was impeached, quite correctly. But my friends on that side of the aisle all voted against that. They had no problem with that kind of interference that directly affected National Security. Mr. Shipley and mr. Ziglar, you both testified about the fact that you have been subject to criticism, ridicule, public disclosure, perhaps menacing comments because you will come forward. Is that correct . Medicine comments . Oh, menacing comments. Yes, sir. And you, too . That must be a terrible feeling. And whoever does that, i think you would probably both agree, is doing a disservice to the country and to you individually. You are simply doing your duty as you see the lights. Fair enough . Be back yes. I am doing my duty. So can you imagine how the District Attorney in fulton county, georgia must feel . Or the District Attorney in manhattan must feel . Or the special counsel a department of justice, mr. Smith, must feel when the very subject of an indictment or pending indictment takes to public rallies and ridicules them by name, disparages them by name, characterizes them by name, putting them and their families at the same risk you are asked anything . If its wrong for these anonymous people to criticize you, it must certainly be wrong that the former president of the United States would demonize people doing their ju jobs just like you try to do yours as they see the light. You can disagree with their judgment, but it is not right to disparage their character. And what is so ironic about this hearing is, again, not one mention on the other side of the aisle about that malign behavior by the very subject of the indictment. Speaking of interference, the American People know President Trump pressured the Justice Department, which we are talking about here today. Wouldnt that be wrong if somebody did that . To go easy on his friend, Michael Flynn. We know when President Trumps handpicked attorney general william barr took the reins, he pressured officials to reduce the sentencing for roger stone and glossed over Robert Moellers president ial election report saying it exonerated the president , when in fact, Robert Moeller explicitly said, no, it did not. And listed 10 specific items of specific obstruction of justice he recommended be pursued, and pointed out unless we misunderstand the pursuit part, he couldnt indict a sitting president according to doj guidelines. But he said in his report, they might want to pursue it. According to recent reporting in the New York Times, former President Trump asked leslie told his chief of staff john kelly that they, quote, ought to investigate and get the irs on former Civil Servants of mr. Trump that he considered his political enemies. Explicit testimony from his own chief of staff. But again, absolute silence on the other side of the aisle, including from the ways and Means Committee, which purports to be so concerned about any hint of interference by any political entity or individual over the pristine work of the department of justice and the irs. An agency, i might add, that has been disparaged as the boot on the neck of the american taxpayer for so long by the majority and denied resources by the majority. As we speak, they cut 24 million in the debt ceiling compromise agreement out of the 80 million we provided to in fact give you more resources to do your job. I yield back. We are going to have two more questions at the request co of the witnesses at every 90 minute mark. We are going to take a 10 minute bathroom recess. So we will recognize the next two questioners, and then go to that recess. Chair recognizes representative turner from ohio for five minutes. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. I appreciate your courage and i appreciate your dedication to the truth and your sense of obligation. Surprisingly, my questions are going to be about your testimony and the subject matter as to why we are here. We are what you shift to actually talk about what you are here for. I am going to cite specific spots of your transcript. Testimony for each of you, but i dont think i will have to go long. If i ask a question after having cited one and you want to refer to it and take a pause, please let me know, but i think we will be able to follow along. You stated on page 17 of your transcript that you started this investigation in november of 2018 after reviewing bank reports related to another case that you were working on on a social media company. Those bank reports identified hunter biden as paying prostitutes related to a potential prostitution ring. It also included those bank reports as evidence that he was living lavishly through his Corporate Bank account. When you make the statement, did you actually review these Bank Statements . This is not knowledge that you got from someone else that is relating to you what they said . You actually look at these documents . That is correct. I actually looked at them. You testified on page 57 concerning the tax report that hunter biden did tell them to send that income to rosemont, and when the money came back to him, he booked it as a loan. You then went on to testify that it shouldve been taxable as soon as it became income, and whatever he did with it after that was really just a scheme to evade taxes for that year. They did not book this as a loan itself, so biden is treating it differently than they did. Did you look at those records . Is is actually your viewing of them to create this testimony . I looked at the evidence, and mr. Ziglar would be the yes. You went on to say this is like textbook. And in all of these defenses alone, youve got to have a promissory note. You got to have rerepayments an none of them were included. Hunter biden claims this is a loan, but the company got it from is not claiming it alone. O theres no promissory notes, theres no repayments. That is correct. In the actually booked it as a deduction. As a deduction, meaning it wouldve been a payment to him, meaning it wouldve been deducted to them. Excellent. But it wasnt just the Bank Documents that you looked at. You also have the opportunity to look at a memo from eric sherwin, and eric sherwin was actually Hunter Bidens accountant. And in your testimony, page 57, you included page 54, a memo from hunters accountant saying you are going to owe tax on this 400,000. You have the accountant even agreeing with your position that there shouldve been tax paid on it. I did not provide this document. This was provided by the committee. Okay. We have it in Public Record of his accountant agreeing. So both of you, i think, indicate that the taxable amount of the 400,000 wouldve been about 125,000 that hunter biden wouldve had to pay on the loss of income. Is that correct . That is correct. Mr. Ziegler . That is correct. You have no record that those taxes were ever paid . No, they were not. And since the statue of limitations was allowed to run out, you go on to state that in order for him to pay this, he would have to pay involuntarily. The government doesnt have a way to compel him to repay it. He got out of having to pay the tax, right . Thats correct. The statute of limitations had expired for that tax year. He has in his pocket 125,000 that shouldve gone to the government as tax. You have the average family earning about 62,000 in a household. That is two full households tax income that he got to keep in his pocket. The thing that i wonder is, he could pay that today, right . Voluntarily. Oh, yes. If he chose to voluntarily. And perhaps mr. President , who is supposed to be in charge of taxes coming into our nation and so frequently tells us that the American People are paying enough taxes might want to wander down the hall of the white house and turned to his son and say, hunter biden, why dont you pay your taxes for 2014, because i have two men who just testified that you have 125,000 and you can cut the check. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Shapley and mr. Ziegler, thank you for being here today. We are obviously going to talk a lot in this hearing about the investigation into Hunter Bidens taxes. So i think its important that we set the scene and make it clear what type of investigation we are talking about. Mr. Ziegler , what year did you open the hunter biden investigation . That was 2018. November of 2018. Thank you. The department of justice announced a plea agreement with hunter biden last month. So i estimate that you spent four or five years on this investigation, mr. Ziegler. That would be correct. Mr. Ziegler, in your testimony before the ways and Means Committee, you said that when your time working on the investigation ended, it was both and here im quoting 99. 9 done. That is. And that you had and here i am quoting again worked to complete 95 of the investigation,. Given this testimony, is it fair to say that in the years that you spent on the investigation, you saw it nearly to completion . So that reference was to the tax case. The tax investigation, as far as all the work we have done regarding that, 99 of that had been done to that date. Exactly. Mr. Shapley , on page 12 of your transcript, of the transcript from your interview with the ways and Means Committee, you describe the irs team that worked on this investigation has consisting of, here i am quoting, 12 elite agents who were selected based on their experience and have performance in the area of complex, high dollar International Tax investigations,. Mr. Shapley, how serious are the investigations undertaken by these elite agents . Im not sure i understand how to answer your question. How serious . Yes, do they have to be very serious to be undertaken by such elite agents . I think i can answer this. You got to treat each taxpayer the same, and thats the most important part. We are kind of the agents with the International Tax group that come in there and we have the expertise to work these complex financial investigations. So whether they are more serious, we have to treat each person and each taxpayer the same, and that is what i try to do in my job. I was referring to this particularly complex, high dollar tax concern. I understand you have to give equal treatment. Mr. Ziegler, you called hunter biden investigations a, quote, complex criminal tax investigation, and i understand that it was an interagency effort involving the irs, the fbi, the u. S. Attorneys office in delaware, and dojs tax division in d. C. Serious and complex mr. Ziegler, is it fair to say that this sort of Interagency Team is only assembled for serious and complex investigations . I can only speak to what happened in this investigation but the reason they may join an investigation depends on the crimes we are investigating. At the irs, we are the only agency in the federal government that is allowed to investigate tax credits because that is why you have to have the irs on that case. You had a lot of other agencies as well and it sounds like Hunter Bidens taxes were subject to a great deal of scrutiny and a rigorous review by a large team of investigators who had experienced working complex cases. This investigation occurred over several years and spanned multiple agencies and divisions and had the time and personnel and other sources, the expertise, and it makes it abundantly clear that this investigation was taken seriously by both the irs and dlg and while witnesses may disagree with the u. S. Attorneys decisions, it is undeniable that hunter biden was subject to a thorough and rigorous investigation. I think you and i yield to the Ranking Member. The gentlelady yield and as i promised the witnesses, we will take a 10 minute recess at which point we will reconvene in 10 minutes. The house is now in recess