the demographics because he's a numbers guy but in 2008 he was in indiana and won that state. he did it because he showed up. again, it's a push and pull. >> the truth is the policies he pursued have not been aimed at the people he's talking about, there they have been aimed at his coastal liberals, the rising electorate. i was out in wisconsin a couple of weeks ago and there was a conference at the university of wisconsin and there's a q and a with one of the professors there, catherine cramer who has done a book and spent years going around wisconsin talking to people. somebody got up in the audience what can democrats say to people in these rural areas. she said first democrats have to listen to people. it's not just showing up and giving a message, it's understanding what it is that drive those people who voted overwhelmingly for donald trump. >> speak in a way, explain your policies that they relate to.