it's not about circumstantial evidence. it's about bank records. it's about tax documents. it's about loan applications. it's about concrete matters. we defense attorneys cross-examine people. and generally we cross-examine people as to their perceptions, misperceptions, what they thought they saw. what they didn't see. it's very difficult to cross-examine a bank record and a tax document that indicates what it does. and so at the end of the day, very concerning. one quick point, and that's this. we should hasten to add that a grand jury consists of 23 people. only a simple majority need to vote out an indictment. an indictment simply means there's probable cause to believe a crime is committed and the subject of the investigation committed it. it's evidence we defense attorneys always say of nothing. so let's see what happens. >> you concur, trouble? >> i absolutely concur. and i think the thing that i look at here, and i think it's very, very important, cyrus vance, the district attorney of new york county, didn't run for