outrage. she's human. she's going to hear about it. she may be outraged herself, or not. i don't want judges necessarily to -- federal judges are supposed to be impervious to public opinion in that way. i think she'll judge manafort based on, you know, him and these facts and what she sees in the case and him as a person. but not necessarily because of the public outcry. >> in your reporting, just looking at the way trump world is viewing what happened with judge ellis and manafort'simpun confident are they that manafort will kind of get aawith a lot of it and maybe get a pardon as a reward? >> he's already gotten away with a lot of it in some way. there are so many secrets paul manafort will go to jail with just by virtue of the fact that