Center for china and globalization how does he justify chinas catalogue of human rights abuses and the continuing pressure on hong kong. Welcome to conduct so thank you for having me china has always insisted that it will do anything to avoid chaos shot a large number of its own people in beijing 30 years ago to do that but its failed comprehensively to address the protests in hong kong why maintaining stability has always been a pillar for chinas Development Since the late 1970 s. But its failed to do it in hong kong the hong kong has a different ever since 9097 told this part of china that china has practiced a one country 2 systems so in hong kong. Primary responsibility of maintaining law and order is resting on the shoulders of the whole cot is our government and the chief executive care of government thats approved by beijing absolutely hong kong is part of china and one of the one percent is doing beijings business not doing it not doing it very well is it its failed its failed to keep the hated extradition law didnt it was forced to withdraw that it tried threats calling the demonstrators rampant in the range them warning that a blow from the sort of law was waiting for them in the future these threats have no effect well i think china not understand what its dealing with because i think there are many different ways to look at whats happening in hong kong i would say the primary situation right now is Law Enforcement you are talking about a restoration of law and order in hong kong and democracy of course when the british left hong kong in 19 only 78 did not leave behind a lot of democracy to talk about but the british did leave behind deeply entrenched the rule of law traditional i think we all need to be very grateful for that and it is now law and order very much at stake in hong kong we should not be confused with any other grievances and political pursuits in hong kong they are important and they need to be drilled with but law and order is the primary responsibility of the Hong Kong Government right now if it took a look at the results of the local elections in the enormous blow to turn his prestige 22 years after the territory was handed over by britain the prodemocracy account tripled its vote from 2015 they won 17 out of 18 councils none of which they previously were allowed me to make several points 1st of all the district election result speaks for. However the District Councils in hong kong cannot operate without stability and evaluators prevailed none of the 18 District Councils can release of the primary purpose they are set up for you are you missing the point of my question perhaps intentionally i dont know but the point is that this was the largest probating party which was forced to declare defeat for this major defeat we said we do not want to find any excuses and reasons this was starlee chair of the largest probating party this is a big blow to tell him this prestige is going to know my reading is very different hong kong is a democracy and there is universal suffrage in hong kong for the people of hong kong for the District Council elections but therefore the fact that the Election Results are such speak loudly for the favor of hong kong has democratic rights people came forward to whatever they want to do for the results speak for themselves because none of the persons are running for the described District Council had a in the courage to stand out for violence they stood for legal and lawful means of exercising their democratic rights i think that counts so so long as democracy democratic rights are exercised the peacefully and lawfully everyone is a winner no one is a loser what we need to the popes in hong kong is violence you that is the key you ignore the fact that chinas plan has been to chip away at hong kongs freedoms and democracy until they were all meaningless and then beijing could reassert full control in that thats been the plan hasnt it already long again with due respect i disagree why should beijing of a Central Government in hong kong. Take away any liberties or freedoms in hong kong with a deal they did mr y like the kidnapping of 500 cong booksellers it is certain to turn out. In Mainland China the crackdown on those who led the 2014 process the highly controversial decision to allow mainland Chinese Police to operate in the west kowloon station all this is chipping away at the freedoms of hong kong to beijing imagine that people wouldnt notice this i think we need to really keep an eye on the big picture that is ever since the 1997 hong kong has managed to keep its relative independence judiciary independence for example political system there has been no change in search or if you talk about specific cases we can go into details if you have more time lets deal with universal suffrage because thats been most controversial the refusal of the Hong Kong Government to move towards universal suffrage for the chief executive position as outlined in the basic law even after the Standing Committee of the National Peoples congress in beijing route 2017 could see the start of universal service with this position the date came and went so the promise hasnt happened has it and perhaps beijing never intended for the promise should be fulfilled and i think we need to be clear as to what we are talking about universal suffrage no problem with that you already have universal suffrage for the District Council election in hong kong as we wish you saying it doesnt. It or its meaning because its a very important that you dont have it for the chief executive despite the fact that its promised its in the basic law then again allow me to measure you you are talking about universal suffrage or direct election of the chief exec exactly does the United Kingdom have to or election for the Prime Minister not all we are not were talking about whats in the basic law for hong kong but were not talking about what things are like in britain or in america or on mars you can play the what about game indefinitely im talking about hong kong what it said was in the in the basic law. The ultimate aim is the selection of the chief executive by universal suffrage upon nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee in accordance with democratic procedures and that didnt need these questions are everywhere for everyone to see the in is certainly universal suffrage is dollar problem direct election that the protesters are now demanding is a problem because why do you want to give something that neither the United States nor the have had 400 years is what they see that they were promised mr go out right now as you pointed out hong kong residents have freedom of the press freedom of the internet absolute dependent courts multiparty elections even with the District Councils this beijing seriously think that by 2047 these people are ever going to willingly give up you know i think the one country 2 system approach comes to an end in 24 plies only up to 2047 now remember when people were still alive and he was the key architect for the one country 2 system he said for the record that if the one country 2 system will work out for the 1st 50 years why couldnt it be extended for another 50 years so there is an uncertainty as to what will happen in hong kong after 2047 i would say everything will come to their end if for example violence continues in hong kong however if stability Prosperity Development and the improvement of the peoples Living Standards are the normal things all the way leading up to 247 why couldnt the one country 2 systems apply more years of asking me you have to talk to the beijings leadership of this if if things dont go to beijings liking and im sure theyre not too pleased about the protests in the demands for freedom in the demands for china to live up to its promises in its International Obligations. Do you think people are going to accept life in china crushing level of censorship what the Un High Commission for human rights recently called a context of increasing limitation on fundamental rights in china people in hong kong will ever accept allow me to mention one point you know putting hong kong in the overall magnitude of the scale of china or whatever bad things that have happened the home of the past 6 months little sad things in china is is is at best can be called a storm in a teacup its not going to change meaningfully anything thats happening in peoples republic of china at all what beijing is are happy about and adamantly is the poles to is the violence in hong kong lets be honest as straightforward with their no country i the president of the United States will tolerate the level of violence that has engulfed hong kong for the past 6 months no country and one or more of those china step in and stop it but what part of the. Well lets speak philosophical about it if you read the basic law the primary responsibility of maintaining law and order rests with the Hong Kong Government yes a very fayre approved government yes its a mandated by the basic law my point is though that if china fully takes over control of hong kong in 2047 and think so little of human rights as the un says it does do you really expect the people of hong kong to embrace the kind of life you have and challenge i mean the legal obligations and commitments the multiple maus decrees and policies in particular those concerning National Security and terrorism which the un says deeply erodes the foundations for the viable social economic and Political Development of society you think after having the freedoms that they have in hong kong theyre going to accept. Kind of life from china lets be honest about it china is in firm control of the situation in hong kong as far as over india is concerned no one in the world can really 2nd this 2nd guess this point or really take hong kong away from china thats for the record thats not 2nd guess about that of course on the one to 2 system hong kong peeps its political system in hong kong the capital is this is the but do you think anyone will realistically expect the hong kong can be misused as a stronghold against china no i that. Day i know all the way to 2047 go unanswered the question was which is where the beijing imagines hong kong would set the kind of restrictions that. People in the mainland after 2047 china has folders question to decide what kind of political system will prevail in hong kong much more no one full of hong kong gets in return for being subsumed into children or a chance to be spied on by what Human Rights Watch called one of the worlds most intrusive mass Surveillance Systems whatever happens will happen in hong kong after 2047 there enters the record of arbitrary detention torture and violations of right. You really think the people of hong kong are 2nd class i need some about in my life not really looking forward to that i think in todays world that we should be very objective and nonbiased about china lets look at how china is developing lets look at china lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty lets look at how our hong kong has benefited a tremendously over the past 22 years after being part of the one country to system after china we exercised is sovereignty over holocausts to make it lets talk about says it was in an interview earlier in the year you called. Its unfortunate censorship in china you said hopefully eventually there will be less censorship leading towards no censorship at all and i hope theyll be a day when people in china can freely watch foreign broadcasters thats pretty full on hope isnt it when you consider that 400000000 extra c. C. T. V. Cameras ago alive and the unprecedented degree of intrusion by the state into peoples lives that were seeing things are not moving in the direction you have of the what you call to it was my view earlier this year it is still my view today and i think it will remain my view for the rest of my life but its a lesson hope business things are not going this way not less or such a ship may be good however every society has its own says divisions do says about look at the United States this says a lot of things that the people here in britain do not care about in britain e. U. Says other things in israel because theres a problem because youre talking about every other civilized gesture stay with china you admitted this you said the monitoring of social behavior of people in china does exist there are quite a few aspects of that which i personally do not like is the detention of around a 1000000 with their muslims engine junk one of the aspects that you dont personally like i visited many times of many wheedle friends islamic friends in charge didnt ask you that i deal with them as brothers and sisters i think to really ask responsible questions about we need to know the spread of terrorism and separatism and extremism. Hasnt been a terrorism issue in general for the last 4 years why because you were the governor was it locked up people without rights and without recourse and without any redress and with the ability to challenge their own incarceration you think thats a good way of doing things were talking about the detention and so cool. Training centers which were 1st denied and then finally admitted by beijing last year the un says people were sent there under the guise of counterterrorism and the extremism policies which youve just mentioned and amid extensive limitations on the exercise of fund the mental rights. Part of the libby make a point terrorism just do not come out of the vacuum terrorism is the result of a process and the process is very much dominated by indoctrination and extremism for example engine john there is no denying there is an increasing level of radicalization many families actually deny their kids the right to education which in china is considered as an offense or a crime no one in china has any right to deprive their kids mr ground war is i believe one was expressing concerns about increasing practices of arbitrary detention in force disappearance absence of judicial oversight and we strictures on the right to freedom of expression freedom of thought conscience and religion quite a list isnt quite a list also the right to freedom of assembly and movement within what it calls an increasingly securitized environment this is a catalog of rights to which your government has formally signed up in Binding International treaties and which it is now violating wholesale and asking you whether youre proud of all that 2 points 1st of all the United Nations generally speaking is in line with what china has been doing over the past 4 decades or so its around the line with the treatment as you well know more than 50 countries in the world support what the japanese government is doing in dealing with terrorism extremism 50 events separatism so hardly beacons of human rights many of which are muslim countries lets lets be honest about many of these countries. Islam and many of the middle and primary states you proud that the us china as well minus say that all in the world no really youre proud that the un had to remind you that you have an obligation to respect and protect individual rights under the universal declaration absolutely human rights are only very important now why do you think all lying to you of your International Obligations because youre violating them wholesale and noise feel put in International Contests the United Nations keeps reminding the United States and many other developed countries of the rights that they failed to give to their people thats on a routine were not talking were not talking about the u. S. I know you want to evade it. You cannot go have a lation we cant thats we can absolutely talk about what china is doing in isolation but the one of the requests for information submitted to beijing last month by 12 u. N. Human rights rapporteurs was does this please provide detailed information on the judicial oversight and control exercised by judges of a persons placed in riyadh facilities following charges under the Counter Terrorism law let me make a bet with you this request is never going to be answered by beijing. I hope with my help or with other peoples help you can do an interview joe i can help you to read some of these you know are saying my question its not because i feel a thing is not go north of this because theres no judicial oversight over the 1000000 or so we get is in detention most of the inmates have no the been charged with not convicted of any crime nor being given any chance to challenge their incarceration as i said earlier and thats fair and youre happy with all that no i think you miss called the situation radicalization is a process at different stages of radicalization you need to come up with strategies to deal radicalize the population including for example what i emphasized for the red. Caught denying any family is misbehavior of depriving their kids the right to go to School Thanks to leaked documents and despite considerable attempts at secrecy by beijing we now have massive amounts of detail about what these institutions are doing including a leaked manual for officials running and operating these places one of the documents that was released described detail controls on each individual the student should have a fixed bed position a fixed queue position a fixed classroom seat and fixed station during skills were strictly forbidden to be change you like this kind of repression you support this kind of oppression. You may call it repression or you may call it educational or Training School or teaching methods if you go to school for example if youre training for the u. K. Military you need to exercise alcohol as hard as a comparable mr gubb weve also seen beijings instruction to officials in these camps implement a view of the norms and discipline requirements for getting out roekel washing going to the toilet organizing and housekeeping eating studying sleeping closing the door and so forth youre trying to build robots in japan know what youre read about reminds most of people of a Training Camp over training that reminds people of the intrusion counters in the mines people of concentration get what will serve china to concentrate people up to lets say in using only at number 1000000 or 2000000 this is not a concentration camp as far as based on my personal knowledge of my dealings with the wiggles brothers and sisters in this is not what you are describing i know of cries from reality. Not not according to the evidence seen by the un and democratic governments around the world these camps lets call them concentration camps they violate all basic rights and freedoms belong to human beings under the universal declaration of human rights which you are supposed to abide by not i would say that china fight this war against terrorism let the british fight your war against spread terrorism and lets dont confuse terrorism extremism and the separatism with what you would call human rights and democracy even if one accepted your pretense you have taken away every right that the set you have illegally incarcerated these people without trial and without any chance for them to challenge that incarceration that is illegal and i would think that doesnt need me. To your International Obligations i would say youre imposing your view of rule of law onto china let china have its on the rule of law this is the rule of law all offenses at is as it see fits we are not talking about britain well not talk here by your United States we are talking about a sovereign government with legal rights to deal with the threats of terrorism and extremism we are talking about lies asia thats the key in china no one in china wants to be a victim of terrorism is the guy you learn you know that he was a should according to the doctor as youre looking at people who harbor vague understandings negative attitudes or even feelings of resistance carry out a cation transformation to ensure that results achieved thats the instruction that beijing gives you look here people who harbor vague understanding is thats all theyve ever done wrong and for that you put them in one of these camps and throw away the key so you dont and you think thats ok and i think a lot of people including the u. N. And human rights organizations believe that you have forfeited the right to be a civilized country so you are quoting something as if it is from the bible no this is not sacred things this may not be verified already using your standard of journalism i hope youll be realistic its an validated by considerably people than journalists i hope you will really verify this with tell me its not journalistic standards are you telling me its not true i dont think b. This is true because what china is faced to with is terrorism radicalization and separatism and extremism thats the menace in china which is also faced by many other countries in the world look at the bombing here in lebanon look at the terrorist attack against innocent people you really want to have this kind of terrorist to. And there is this prevailing in your country or europe we have a common common task to do and you are united against terrorism and thats a challenge not faced by china long thats a challenge faced by man kind as a whole youre a lawyer mr geiger yes youre even a lawyer whos licensed to practice in new york absolutely do you think being out of this kind of behavior by government is acceptable thats remarkable i think the libbers test is to put that end to terrorism thats the key no why shouldnt. Draw arent human rights wholesale thats what you say you want that surveillance for the last time with the reality on the ground probably have you no shame about these conditions protecting those human rights protecting human rights will always be the most important thing as promoting democracy but on the other hand fighting terrorism and extremism is equally important in china as well as in your case of everywhere else in the world thats the bottom line we need to Work Together to fight against terrorism. Thanks for being. The something tied. Up by a scream from terrorists or dealing with an Even Economic killed many civilians in. Coming including my father was something i was a student because i wanted to build a life for myself. But suddenly life became owlish kind of song. Providing insights global news that matters d. W. May for minds. 50 years of religion is for peace to choose from many Different Things are working together toward a common goal the peaceful resolution of religious conflicts again now all the female members are for religion for peace from the middle east are demanding the larger above. All Common Ground is empowering women giving them the rule. Making them agents of change who they are playing the female peacemakers stores january 5th the d. W. P. At least on some. Of the issues above his wristbands. Buttes above the believe the beat the brisebois love the beach enough the space the book the shoulders above. The bowl come up the boosts the bottom up the big love and respect. The boy. Long. This is the news line from Britains Parliament opens for the 2nd time in as many months Queen Elizabeth as delivered a speech conservatives agenda under johnson following his election victory last week and no surprise the number one priority is delivering frex the latest from london also coming up the u. S. House of representatives impeach a president
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