Friend and supporter of jeremy corbyn, the puppet of tony blair, or the mouth piece of Just Stop Oil for all we do know is that he has broken every single leadership pledge and flip flopped almost 60 times in just three years. This is a man who will literally say anything that suits him at that time. His comments came just hours after the Prime Minister refused to commit to tax cuts. Rishi sunak said his focus is on halving inflation because it impacts the poorest the most. On a visit to burnley, the pm insisted his approach is deeply conservative, saying its a thatcherite policy. Thatcherite policy. The best tax cut that we can deliver right now is to halve inflation. And thats something that im deeply committed to. Its the first of my five priorities. Why because thats how help people with the how we can help people with the cost we just want cost of living. We just want to put money in peoples put more money in peoples pockets. And best way pockets. And the best way to do that right now through that right now is through halving that is halving inflation. And that is a deeply conservative approach to this. My colleagues this. And my colleagues understand that this what understand that this is what margaret understand that this is what margar is set to be a key issue tax is set to be a key issue over the four days , with over the next four days, with more 30 tory mps promising more than 30 tory mps promising not to support the autumn statement if it contains any hikes. Shadow Health Secretary hikes. Shadow Health Secretary wes streeting says theyre right to question the pms tax policies, including inheritance tax. After 13 years of conservative government , we end conservative government, we end up in a position where even its own mps are having to campaign against their unfair tax policies and i think conservative mps are quite right to say how is it that weve got the worst, highest tax burden in 70 years . They should also be asking rishi sunak why now . Instead of thinking about cutting taxes for working people, hes looking to give himself and other super rich people a tax break by cutting a tax that affects 4 of people in this country. A tax cut that would earn him personally £300 million. The family of a teenager who was killed in a bus crash on the wirral say her death has left a massive void in their lives. 15 year old Jessica Baker died after her school coach hit a reserve on the m53 on friday. Her head teacher has described her as unequivocally kind and empathetic. The driver, stephen empathetic. The driver, stephen shrimpton, was also killed when the bus overturned. A key part the bus overturned. A key part of the Windsor Framework has come into effect for Northern Ireland, with a new system introduced to move products from great britain. Goods which are great britain. Goods which are being transported to the eu will use a red lane , which includes use a red lane, which includes Customs Declarations , while Customs Declarations, while those bound for Northern Ireland will use a green lane with minimal papennork and no checks. This is gb news across the uk on tv in your car on Digital Radio and on your Smart Speaker by saying play gb news now its time for. Time for. Camilla to. Good morning and welcome to the Camilla Tominey show live from the conservative Party Conference in manchester, where, as youd imagine, weve got a line up of big guests for you as even line up of big guests for you as ever. And im here with michael gove levelling up secretary and the surrey heath as the mp for surrey heath as build. Lovely to see you, mr gove. For coming on gove. Thank you for coming on the this morning. Pleasure. The show this morning. Pleasure. Camilla now intrigued camilla now im intrigued because that because when i announced that you this show, i you were coming on this show, i obviously said were coming obviously said you were coming on priti patel and others, and i received a memo from two different people describing you as architect project. As a net zero architect project. So theres a bit of scurrilous behaviour going on. Maybe by some in the more climate sceptic wing party, pointing out wing of the party, pointing out the fact that youre the one thats pushed all these thats pushed for all of these net zero measures. Youre the one wanted the petrol one who wanted the petrol and diesel the one diesel car ban. Youre the one that up to Greta Thunberg that cosied up to Greta Thunberg. List goes on. Yes. And. The list goes on. Yes. And youve had to climb down on this climate stuff. I think David Cameron once famously called it the how are the green crap. I mean, how are you feeling about this . Because you feeling about this . Because you agenda , but you did push this agenda, but have you now realised that its just not politically expedient . Passionate about the no, im passionate about the environment and when i was environment and when i was environment secretary, we did a lot in order to ensure that as we left the European Union , we we left the European Union, we took advantage of the new freedoms that we had actually to be a greener country. The ban on new petrol and diesel cars that we brought in at that time was for 2040. Yes its now 2035, so its more ambitious than when i was doing 20, 30. It was. You did say quite recently. No, theres absolutely no way were going back on that timeline. Well, i certainly think that it was right to move from 2040 to 2035 and to show a greater degree of ambition. But as the Prime Minister has pointed out, were were world leading in our moves towards net zero in our decarbonise nation. And of course, the environment is about much more than dealing with climate change. So that is the single biggest threat to our environment. Single biggest threat to our environment. Right. And the Prime Minister, is right Prime Minister, i think is right to say, look, were going to meet those targets, we do meet those targets, but we do not do at a time when not want to do so at a time when people feeling the pinch, people are feeling the pinch, which hit them which will actually hit them hard pockets when we hard in the pockets when we dont to. Dont need to. Reflection , was because on reflection, was it because at end the day, its not at the end of the day, its not very popular with tory voters. Weve seen this opinion poll, which interesting which i think is interesting in the observer. Youre now only ten points behind after this climate so were you a climate climbdown. So were you a little of sync with tory little bit out of sync with tory voters . You and rishi voters . Do you think . And rishi sunak no think that sunak caught up . No i think that the absolutely right that the youre absolutely right that taking a long term view and at the same time also making sure that we dont hit hard working people is the right thing to do. But overall , that band 2030 but overall, that band 2030 was immovable all and its been moved. Yeah. But overall and sunak talks about keir starmer being flip flop ish. Well, we can get to on keir starmer in a second, but. But the ba. 2 is that if youre travelling in a direction and the direction that were travelling is greater Environmental Protection in net zero, you can zero, then sometimes you can accelerate sometimes you can accelerate and sometimes you can decelerate, youre still decelerate, but youre still travelling in the same direction. Talking about now were talking about speed. Lets talk about hs2. Yes. Whether its or yes. Whether its speed or capacity open debate capacity still open to debate this whole prevarication over the leg, you are the the manchester leg, you are the levelling secretary. If you levelling up secretary. If you dont do manchester leg, dont do this manchester leg, youre not levelling up. I mean, bofis youre not levelling up. I mean, Boris Johnson, your former colleague, has said that rishi is his mind to think of is out of his mind to think of scrapping of this rail scrapping this part of this rail project lets face has project that, lets face it, has somewhat crept out of control from a budget perspective. Weve got this ludicrous situation where its coming to london, where its not coming to london, so probably actually going so its probably actually going to take more to go to old to take more time to go to Old Oak Common to on it, to go oak common to get on it, to go to birmingham, to maybe not go to birmingham, to maybe not go to and then whats to manchester. And then whats happened to Northern Powerhouse rail . Youre not levelling up the well, the the north at all . Well, the first thing is work is still going on on hs2 even as we speak. The second thing is i cant and expect me to and you wouldnt expect me to speculate what you reckon the speculate on what you reckon the i youre so close to the i mean, youre so close to the action, you must know. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. The most important i think the most important thing is to make sure that we get value for from every get value for money from every pound on transport pound that we spend on transport and critically, we need to make sure as linking sure that as well as linking north south, we also link north and south, we also link east and west and we also need to make the within to make sure the links within cities youre like cities youre not like manchester spent manchester east are spent as well and leeds well what manchester and leeds still have rail link still dont have that rail link you cant easily get you know you cant easily get across pennines in 2023. Across the pennines in 2023. Were in the north, if you were in the north, youd be angry. Youd be saying, no, this government is far too london centric. It isnt all roads lead london. It should roads lead to london. It should be sheffield be a road leads from sheffield to to manchester to newcastle. I agree that weve been to london centric in the past and thats why we have a Long Term Plan up. So with plan for levelling up. So with lots different. Lots of different. You think that hs2 should so you think that hs2 should go to manchester then . Think levelling up well, i think levelling up involves doing many things. Involves doing many more things. Give that. Give us your position on that. Go to manchester . Should it go to manchester . Should it go to manchester . Well, we need to make well, i think we need to make sure that were getting absolute value for money. Come on. Able have an you must be able to have an opinion whether it should go opinion on whether it should go to manchester not. To manchester or not. I absolutely think the most important is making sure important thing is making sure that level up, we take that when we level up, we take into the things into account all of the things that need to do. That we need to do. So weve shifted arts council funding, but should it go to Manchester Research and Development Funding . Well, were going to. Going to have to. Not . It should should it not . Will it should it to look at every every it have to look at every every conceivable that spend it have to look at every every cortransport that spend it have to look at every every cortransport in that spend it have to look at every every cortransport in order|at spend it have to look at every every cortransport in order to spend it have to look at every every cortransport in order to make end on transport in order to make sure that value for money . Not an answer to the question whether you think it should go to manchester. Right. Your answer all right. Its your answer to that question. Try and to that question. Lets try and get to another get an answer to another question. Burden. Question. The tax burden. Yes. Scheduled to be, i think, 37. 7, the highest in peace time. You know a caucus of know this youve got a caucus of your own party on the right saying we not support any saying we will not support any more rises. Truss priti more tax rises. Truss priti patel is coming on later. What do you think of these colleagues . Been colleagues . Theyve also been apparently not those specific messages, not those specific people, but weve seen some whatsapps about rishi whatsapps talking about rishi sunak the of sunak having the charisma of a doorknob. Here . Doorknob. Whats going on here . Are this caucus are you behind this caucus saying that taxes should come down or do you think theyre being scurrilous . Being scurrilous . Think every no, i think every conservative wants to bring taxes down and to reduce the tax burden. But at the thing we must do first is to bring inflation under control. The biggest tax cut that we can give to the country is bringing inflation down. But naturally, whenever conservatives can, we always want to cut taxes. And the colleagues who are making that argument are , to my mind, simply argument are, to my mind, simply making the argument that all of us in government believe in as well. So should he should the chancellor cut taxes come the autumn statement . Well, as to which taxes when its the chancellor, you quite rightly point out, who will decide and i believe that it is only after we deal with inflation affecting only yes that we can then cross that threshold. We do want to reduce taxes, but i cant anticipate where we will be on that journey at this stage. And on the inflation point, theres been some suggestions by Caroline Wheeler on the sunday times that jeremy hunt has been sort of overheard speaking about the idea of having an election once inflation is below 3. So if it happens in the spring, it happens in the spring, if it happens in the spring, if it happens in the autumn, it happens in the autumn, it happens then have you heard anything about there might anything about when there might be election . I know its next be an election . I know its next yean be an election . I know its next year, those two seasons . I certainly dont know. I certainly dont know. All right. Fair enough. Also, lets talk about you lets talk about what you and talking boris in your sun talking about boris in your sun on sunday interview, because i was intrigued this. You was intrigued by this. Yes. You said you of patched things said you sort of patched things up a long and deep up and you had a long and deep and conversation. And and meaningful conversation. And i wondered if you could i just wondered if you could enlighten what enlighten us at all as to what was discussed or you think was discussed or what you think of boris future in of Boris Johnsons future in this it shame that this party. Is it a shame that hes not at conference making his unique contribution . Absolutely well, youre absolutely right. The sun on sunday have a brilliant interview, pages 14 and 15 today. Yes, ive read it. Kate ferguson, i would recommend brilliant. More people read it as for boris, look, i enjoyed working for boris. We all know that boris is a politician with massive gifts, but also so, you know, he made some mistakes. And know, he made some mistakes. And we all know what happened as a result of that. I had the opportunity to talk to him at a social event a wee while ago. But in fairness to boris, hes now a private citizen. So its a now a private citizen. So its a private conversation. Did you ever apologise for the leadership knifing of 2016 to him . I think a long time ago, yes. Do you regret that now . Do you regret that now . I think that there have been so many Turbulent Times and throwings that its probably best for historians to judge what was right and what was wrong rather than me. How do we think historians are going to judge Suella Braverman on wednesday . Braverman speech on wednesday . Do her . Do you agree with her . Thoughtful. Well i mean, i look at britain, i think that its a very multicultural country and its been hugely successful as that. So do you disagree with suella then . No, because i think she was making a very specific point, which us to continue which is that for us to continue to be a successful, multi ethnic, multiracial country, we do need to make sure that we have a core of values that we have a core of values that everyone who lives here accepts and coheres around the rule of democracy , rule of law, democracy, tolerance minorities and so tolerance for minorities and so on. And we have been successful. If you look at the cabinet, if you look at the parliament, if you look at the parliament, if you look at the parliament, if you look at the leadership that we have in the media, in the private sector, in so many other areas, britain , i think is areas, britain, i think is probably one of the most successful, multi ethnic, multiracial democracies in the world. But you only maintain that success if people have confidence that your policy on migration and your policy on integration is okay. So how has it failed then . And is she actually guilty of dog whistle politics . Theres some talking about this some whos talking about this point shes people point shes made about people claiming persecution because of their homosexuality. And their homosexuality. And actually its only a tiny proportion of migrants. Yet shes a big thing. So shes made that a big thing. So is she blowing a dog whistle . No, i dont think so at all. I suella was making i think suella was making a number thoughtful points. One number of thoughtful points. One of them was that we obviously need provide the need to provide people with the reassurance that were dealing with migration order with illegal migration in order to happy situation to maintain the happy situation that in the uk where that we have in the uk where were the countries. Were one of the countries. Electorate doesnt have the electorate doesnt have that. That insurance. Well, well come back to that. We are one the that. We are one of the countries in europe, if not, i think the best when it comes to showing warmth and a welcoming attitude towards people coming here legally who are genuinely fleeing persecution. But its also the case that the number of people who are coming here illegally, particularly on small boats, has diminished. There is more do, but robert more to do, but suella, Robert Jenrick and team are working more to do, but suella, robert jenri hard|d team are working more to do, but suella, robert jenri hard on team are working more to do, but suella, robert jenri hard on that. Am are working very hard on that. I notice as well from your interview, you talked a little bit about knife crime, that tragic and him tragic case of elian and him being in croydon last being killed in croydon last week, horrific. Week, which was just horrific. And talked bit about and you talked a bit about lockdown and whether you were asking yourselves questions lockdown and whether you were askingwhether es questions lockdown and whether you were askingwhether we questions lockdown and whether you were askingwhether we should ns about whether we should have locked is that locked down schools. Is that something because something you regret now because you were lockdown hawk, you you were a lockdown hawk, you were be were pushing for things to be locked down, or do we lock down too much . Locked down, or do we lock down too well, i . Locked down, or do we lock down too well, i think we now have an well, i think we now have an opportunity reflect on the opportunity to reflect on the whole. Sorry. Thats whole. Oh, sorry. Thats my phone. Oh who is it . No. You answer it . Should you answer it . Should you answer it . No. On this. No, no, no. Not on this. No, no, no. Not on this. Is it rishi sunak . Is it rishi sunak . Not on this occasion. No, no. The we now have an opportunity to that. I do think to reflect on that. I do think it absolutely necessary to it was absolutely necessary to lock to prevent lock down in order to prevent the of the virus. But i the spread of the virus. But i also think that we can look back and learn lessons for the future and learn lessons for the future and think the area that was and i think the area that was most painful difficult most painful and difficult was locking regret being so hawkish . No. Okay no. Okay one more question, if i may. It might sound a little self indulgent, but i was intrigued this week hear from intrigued this week to hear from your caroline nokes, intrigued this week to hear from your for caroline nokes, intrigued this week to hear from your for channels nokes, intrigued this week to hear from your for channel to okes, intrigued this week to hear from your for channel to be s, calling for this channel to be closed youre appearing on closed down. Youre appearing on this morning, and this channel this morning, and were see you, were delighted to see you, secretary state. Think secretary of state. Do you think that should be closed down . Of course not. We shouldnt be in the business of saying closed down free speech. News closed down free speech. Gb news is valuable addition to what is a valuable addition to what i think some people have called the broadcasting ecology. People should choice. There should have more choice. There should have more choice. There should voices. Yes, should be more voices. Yes, there will be people on gb news who will say things that are offensive. There have been people on the bbc whove said things that are offensive and indeed channels, on indeed on other channels, on other well. So, you other channels, as well. So, you know, key thing is channels know, the key thing is channels should decide that we need to leave it there. Gb news is leave it there. Gb news is great. And i think, you know, the more people who tune in and hear you, camilla and thank you and others , the better. Thank and others, the better. Thank you. Michael gove, thank you very much. Well be back very, very shortly. Radio. Stephen timms, labour mp for east ham and chair of the work and pensions select committee, joins me now. Stephen, thank you very much for sharing some time with me on this sunday morning. Now appreciate the labour now i appreciate its the labour Party Conference next in Party Conference next week in liverpool. With the liverpool. We are with the tories as we speak. Stephen, lets the lets just talk about the private schools policy, which is one of the kind of nailed on policies were actually policies that were actually sure that keir starmer does want to if he becomes to introduce. If he becomes Prime Minister next year. Now theres a bit of a flip theres been a bit of a flip flop on this policy. You initially said you wanted to strip schools their strip private schools of their charitable as charitable status as well as charging vat school fees. Charging vat on school fees. Youve taken away of that. Youve taken away part of that. Youre saying you dont the youre saying you dont mind the schools being charitable , but schools being charitable, but you to put vat on . Is you still want to put vat on . Is this policy just completely confused . Whats going on or is it example of sir keir it another example of sir keir starmer captain flop . I . I dont think it is. I mean, the crucial thing is the tax changes and the question of why these tax breaks are appropriate for private schools. I cant think of any justification for them other than that its the way its always been done. I way its always been done. I think the partys right to say that that private schools should pay that that private schools should pay vat along with everybody else because that will generate some much needed funds to improve state schools, which and, you know, in the end is in everybodys interest, including the interests of people who send their children to private schools for state schools to be doing a really good job. But its not in the interests of people who send their children to private schools to have 20 added to their bills. Have 20 added to their bills. Keir starmer said, oh, well, its the schools wont its hopefully the schools wont pass these charges on, if pass these charges on, but if you listen to any of the independent schools bodies, theyre that parents will theyre saying that parents will be in their droves. That be leaving in their droves. That will then push an estimated 40,000 private School Pupils into the state system. How will labour be able to cope with those children . How quickly will they be able to build the classrooms needed to accommodate them . Well, the institute for fiscal studies looked at this and said they dont think there will be a big away from will be a big move away from private schools. But i come back to the key question should private question why should private schools have these tax breaks . What is the justification for them . Other than thats how its always been done . And i think always been done . And i think its absolutely right to. Take a its absolutely right to. Take a fresh look at this and accept that private education should be taxed in the same way as other services have to pay vat on services we have to pay vat on everything else. Why not on school fees and what about the other criticism that actually it will make the private School System even more elitist . Because your likes your because your likes of your etons and your winchesters, theyll be able to afford the fee hike. The parents, theyre these schools have got great reserves, massive endowments, lots of investments. But most lots of investments. But most independent schools are of 400 pupils or less their service by parents of children who are just about managing to afford the fees. These are the very kids, fees. These are the very kids, one imagines that labour are behind in terms of social mobility. Theyre the ones who mobility. Theyre the ones who are going to be forced out of the private sector into the state sector as well. Private schools are ovennhelmingly used by better off families for obvious reasons and i think its perfectly reasonable to expect them to pay the ordinary taxes for that service that we all pay for every other service. I dont every other service. I dont think theres any justification that private School Parents already pay tax, dont they . Education. But mr tim, education. But mr tim, private School Parents, they pay tax. They pay tax. But they dont use the schools. So in a way, you could argue that the government owes them a rebate, but why should education, private education benefit from a tax break that doesnt apply to anything else . Okay , fair point. Okay, fair point. Okay, fair point. Fair point. Lets move on to ulez, if we can, because obviously im noting your constituency being east ham. What do the good people of east ham make of ulez . And is this a ham make of ulez . And is this a disastrous policy from the mayor of london who of course is for your side . Labour sadiq khan well , sadiq your side . Labour sadiq khan well, sadiq khan is doing a great job and i really welcome the improvements in air quality that my constituents in east ham have benefited from, benefited from the ulez came in here several years ago , so there was several years ago, so there was one constituent who came to see me who was worried about it. Me who was worried about it. But, you know, it went in really with very little comment andits really with very little comment and its definitely contribute to a much appreciated improvement in local air quality. And of course, theres more that needs to be done, but its a big step in the right direction. There has been some criticism of sadiq khan in the week for taking his eye off the ball when it comes to knife crime in the capital. Youll be familiar with the tragic death of Elianne Andam on wednesday in croydon. Andam on wednesday in croydon. Has he been focusing too much on some of these green policies and not enough on trying to rid the capital of lethal blades . Capital of lethal blades . Well, the what happened in croydon was absolutely terrible and theres been far too much of this over a period , including this over a period, including some tragic deaths in my own borough in in newham. Borough in in newham. I think what we need here is a really good, good cross Government Strategy , cross Government Strategy, focusing on tackling this massive problem. We just havent had that. Yes, the mayor is playing his part. The met police in my area is working. Really really hard, but they dont seem to have the backing of the government. Thats the change that is needed here. That i think is needed here. Im going to ask you this as well, mr timms, because our viewers and listeners may not remember, but you were yourself stabbed by a constituent. Theres been some talk in the news about the news this week about the ease with which particularly young people can knives online, people can obtain knives online, that they can go and buy. Very sharp knives, zombie knives and other knives on amazon. Do you other knives on amazon. Do you think there should be an age limit on the purchase of knives . Do bring in more do we need to bring in more regulations to the sales of regulations to stop the sales of knives to young people . Knives to young people . Yes, we do. Specifically for onune yes, we do. Specifically for online sales because of course, they are not caught by the bans which apply to shops in the uk. I campaigned on this in 2018. I was promised that these changes would be in the Online Safety bill and they are in the Online Safety bill. The Online Safety bill is still not yet in effect, but im hoping when it does come into effect, but im hoping when it does come into effect , we will finally into effect, we will finally have much better protections against online sales of these appalling weapons, which to many people are still getting hold of at the moment. Hit and mr timms, obviously it is your conference next week in liverpool. We understand that Keir Starmers strong feeling a little bit with his speech. What would you like to hear from the labour leader next week in liverpool . Well, keir starmer has done a superb job in positioning the labour party as a credible alternative government. I was campaigning in Glasgow Rutherglen in the by election this week and met people there switching both from the conservative party and the snp to labour. Its done. Hes done to labour. Its done. Hes done a fantastic job. Hes set out the five missions which he wants to be the hallmarks of his government and im no doubt that next week we are going to start to hear some more of the details and i think that will be an important step fonnard. But the mission is the kind of ten Year Missions he set out, i think are absolutely right. Yes although the poll gap between labour and the conservatives has narrowed, according to opinion in the today , youre in the observer today, youre only ten points ahead and you had its not all had been 25. So its not all going right for keir starmer, is it . Well, i dont think anyone expected us to be 25 points ahead by the time of the general election. Id happily settle for ten myself. You know, its a remarkable turnaround for the Labour Party Since keir became leader at and i think his speech next week will be a very important opportunity to spell out further to people how labour will change britain as the chief executive of iceland said when he resigned from the conservative party yesterday, nothing seemed to be better today than was when the today than it was when the conservatives came to power 13 years ago. Desperate time years ago. Its desperate time for change. For a change. Stephen timms, thank you very much indeed forjoining this much indeed for joining this morning. Lovely to speak to you radio. Pretty patel, former home secretary and mp for witham. Secretary and mp for witham. Nice to see you. Good morning. Newly named. I saw you at windsor castle. Was it Princess Anne . It was. It must have been lovely. It was just incredible. It was just incredible. Really humbling. You were wearing pink i yes. H h yes. And lovely. And, you know, was with a lot of people know, i was with a lot of people that have given a amount to that have given a huge amount to the Public Service the country Public Service frontline so its frontline individuals. So its incredibly humbling. Well, congratulations. Thank you. Lets get straight into because into conference matters because i am intrigued. Theres a little bit mischief making going on. Bit of mischief making going on. I think , among some tories. Can i think, among some tories. Can we include you in that simply because youve signed this letter along with liz truss and duncan and others about duncan smith and others about tax saying to the tax and youre saying to the chancellor, you put taxes up chancellor, if you put taxes up again, we will not support you. And up all the and if you add up all the numbers, you know, you could actually challenge the government on this. It could be a pretty effective rebellion in. Meanwhile, of meanwhile, we hear members of the democratic the conservative Democratic Organisation are being organisation no names are being named, but theyre quoted in the papers having on papers as having written on Whatsapp Groups. Things the Whatsapp Groups. Things like the pms the charisma of a door pms got the charisma of a door. Whats going on here . Pretty. I mean, youre meant to be a nest of singing birds ahead of conference, so. Well, look, camilla, i think youve been been to youve been youve been to conferences many, many times and you me well enough in terms you know me well enough in terms of my instincts. And im a grassroots activist first and foremost. I actually think Party Conference should be about our members. Youve members. So first of all, youve asked, we making mischief . Asked, are we making mischief . The answer is no. So the point the answer is no. So the point about the tax pledge is that this is now our last conference before a general election. I think its right. And i think the other thing is actually theres more unity amongst conservative backbench mps that we conservative we must have a conservative vision an and an Ambitious Programme and platform to go into the next general election on that importantly, differentiate labour. Differentiate us from labour. Well, we are. Yougov is suggesting that there should be tax cuts, but i suppose the economists will be asking where does the money come from . The government boris from . The government under Boris Johnson and now under rishi sunak all the sunak with furlough and all the rest it has spent too much money. We know the size of the state has grown far too much, but i also think we have to look at quite a few things actually. One is overall rate of taxation is the overall rate of taxation and there was the ifs report that published on friday and that was published on friday and actually good actually it was a very good report. Was a detailed report report. It was a detailed report that share of public that showed the share of public spending. State has grown spending. The state has grown more than the tax receipts that are coming into government. So what do we cut . Which departments we do . Departments do we do . Every department we . Well, every department can take a cut, the home office. We . Well, every department carlaste a cut, the home office. We . Well, every department carlaste a cillthe home office. We . Well, every department carlaste a cill giveiome office. We . Well, every department carlaste a cill give your office. We . Well, every department carlaste a cill give you theice. So last year ill give you the one example. Last year before i left the home office, i the left the home office, i gave the police a pay increase and that was funded from backroom was part funded from backroom from the Actual Home Office budget. And from the Actual Home Office budget. And more of that budget. And i think more of that needs come. We also need to needs to come. We also need to theres a lot of work need to theres a lot of work we need to do government, though. Do in government, though. Camilla well. When think camilla as well. When you think about society is going, about the way society is going, weve got a lot of people that are work, that are not are not in work, that are not actually being supported get actually being supported to get into former into work. Im a former employment minister and i was part of team that brought in part of the team that brought in universal we brought part of the team that brought in unichanges we brought part of the team that brought in unichanges to we brought part of the team that brought in unichanges to thee brought part of the team that brought in unichanges to the welfare tt part of the team that brought in unichanges to the welfare. Big changes to the welfare. Do we need to do more with universal credit . We must give people more support. Weve to make support. Weve got to make people productive. Weve got to help you help people get back. Do you think post covid thing think its a post covid thing that are just not willing that people are just not willing to the workforce . To go back into the workforce . Saying are are you saying people are lazy . You saying . Lazy . What are you saying . Saying that . Again, if you look at the but again, if you look at the ifs report, there are some shocking projections in there even around the even by the obr around the number people going fonnard number of people going fonnard by future years as by 2028 and in future years as working that ends up working age. That ends up claiming benefits. Yeah, we need to which can to find ways in which we can support because cant support them because we cant always fine, the state always say its fine, the state is step in the state is going to step in the state should step in. Absolutely. For people need that help people that need that help and that safety net, which is what universal that safety net, which is what uni do sal that safety net, which is what uni dosal think the state do you think the state is stepping too so i do. Stepping too in much . So i do. I absolutely do. And thats thats down to us in government. But also its up to us as conservatives in government to put alternative , the put fonnard the alternative, the alternative hope of alternative that gives hope of opportunity and aspiration. Yeah, back to the British Public so that they know theyve got economic. Lets talk about hope and aspiration. Do you think that aspiration. Or do you think that your predecessor, Suella Braverman, and braverman, is spreading hope and aspiration by saying that multiculturalism failed . Multiculturalism has failed . , i think first of so look, i think first of all, im going to just say that, you know, the job of home secretary is a very difficult job. Do you think shes doing a good job . Well, she shes spoken shes given a speech this week. And, know, shes shes and, you know, shes shes right to about range of issues. But do you agree on that . Multicolour aspect . Because but do you agree on that . Multicowill aspect . Because but do you agree on that . Multicowill asp youvecause but do you agree on that . Multicowill asp youve got;e but do you agree on that . Multicowill asp youve got a lot people will say youve got a lot in common, both of you. Youre both the children of immigrant parents. Our own. Parents. Were not on our own. No, indeed. Both home no, indeed. Youre both home secretaries, both mums look. Secretaries, you both mums look. No, look. Look at the no, no, look. Look at the diaspora communities that we have in country. Its not have in our country. Its not about Suella Braverman its about Suella Braverman and its not me. No, about Suella Braverman and its not me. No, this about not about me. No, this is about our country. You know, im the first talk country up. First to talk our country up. Im the first to talk success up in our country. We are an amazing were amazing country and were an amazing country and were an amazing people , quite amazing home to people, quite frankly, that have chosen to make their lives in the united kingdom. Were here in kingdom. Were here in manchester, which is home to many people from the bno community who left hong kong in recent years. Theyre integrated. There are loads of people, of people people, millions of people contributing country. Contributing to our country. Being negative suella being too negative then. Shes been accused then. I mean, shes been accused of positive politics. Of dogwhistle positive politics. Context around i think some context around some remarks. Know, some of her remarks. You know, its important. So i will give some context and examples. There some context and examples. There are parts of the country we saw , we saw disruption Community Tensions in leicester last year. Yes you cant just say thats not because people havent integrated know people there want jobs. They want hope and desperation. They also need desperation. They also need their local councils and local government to work well for them. A labour mayor, quite frankly in has not been in leicester has not been working for them, not working well for them, not delivering these are delivering for people. These are the things that we have the types of things that we have to address quite frankly, as to address and quite frankly, as conservatives government, conservatives in government, thats should be thats where we should be focusing think when focusing on. And i do think when you at the net contribution you look at the net contribution of our immigrant communities and diaspora the united kingdom, of our immigrant communities and diaspnot the united kingdom, of our immigrant communities and diaspnot bethe united kingdom, of our immigrant communities and diasp not be seeingted kingdom, of our immigrant communities and diasp not be seeing the ingdom, of our immigrant communities and diasp not be seeing the range m, of our immigrant communities and diasp not be seeing the range of wed not be seeing the range of foreign direct investment. Look at india and at countries like india and investors, people investors, for example, people from parts of the world, from other parts of the world, asia, the United States come into our country, even africa and what do you think the home secretary was doing . Was it a tilt at leadership . Was it a tilt at leadership . I mean, look, you should ask her, really should. I mean, look, you should ask her, delighted ally should. I mean, look, you should ask her, delighted toy should. I mean, look, you should ask her, delighted to haveuld. I mean, look, you should ask her, delighted to have her were delighted to have her on. If you want to come on to speak to you next week. I think actually, lets lets just then, you know, just just again then, you know, just look were less look at qatar next. Were less than year away from a general than a year away from a general election speeches fine, than a year away from a general ele none speeches fine, than a year away from a general ele none of speeches fine, than a year away from a general ele none of thatneeches fine, than a year away from a general ele none of that isches fine, than a year away from a general ele none of that is a|es fine, than a year away from a general ele none of that is a substitute but none of that is a substitute for action and delivery. And if you around hall, this you look around the hall, this area today , the pledges are area today, the pledges are there. You know the government. Are you frustrated that do you think its too many words are not enough action from this government . Its delivery. Therell next yean the british people will judge this on delivery. The this government on delivery. The five for example , the five pledges, for example, the boats is one of them. Lets have less talk and focus on actually stopping mean, stopping the boats. I mean, 24,000 over 24,000 people have come over this its a difficult this year. Its a difficult issue. Know ive been there. Issue. I know ive been there. Yes. Ive always said theres no one solution. But be one single solution. But be pragmatic, find pragmatic, be practical, find solutions. Have the supreme solutions. We have the Supreme Court coming up for the Court Hearing coming up for the rwanda judgement. What do you think on that . Because theres been talk about the echr today. I think all of the cabinet have been given number 10 to given a line from number 10 to say, everythings on say, you know, everythings on the table. Yes, i gather. Yes, i gather. What do you think yeah. What what do you think should the table and taken should be on the table and taken off . Give view. Off . Ill give you my view. I cant speak for anyone in government. In government. Im not in government. Im not in government. Number one, i support reform. Im support support reform. Im i support reform comes to echr. Reform when it comes to echr. I support of un 51 support reform of the un 51 convention, i went to see the head of the unhcr last year with the foreign secretary head of the unhcr last year with the rwandaireign secretary head of the unhcr last year with the rwanda. Eign secretary head of the unhcr last year with the rwanda. When ecretary head of the unhcr last year with the rwanda. When we tary head of the unhcr last year with the rwanda. When we announced from rwanda. When we announced our rwanda plan. Theres a but our rwanda plan. Theres a but coming. But lets be quite clear about this, right . So echr is not about the rights and the principles. This not about the rights and the principles. This is about not about the rights and the principles. This is about the principles. This is about the interpretation by the court in strasbourg of judgements that go against our own laws, our own sovereign laws. And camilla, weve been here before. Do you remember prisoner rights . Yes. Remember prisoner rights . Yes. Yes. So, you know, give him prisoners. The right to vote. When about how when you think about how that court to stop Foreign Court intervenes to stop Foreign National offenders from being removed from our country, that is laws are is not right. Our laws are Crystal Clear about the removal and deportation of fmos. So and the deportation of fmos. So are you pro full withdrawal from it . So i think we have to reform. You can withdraw, but at the same time, is it about the rights or the principles or the interpretation . I dont think interpretation . I dont think its right that the court in strasbourg is interfere in our domestic policies and in our laws, which is stopping actually a democratically elected government from implementing its own laws. And, you know , foreign own laws. And, you know, Foreign National offenders is just one example. Prisoner votes. David cameron was very clear about that at the time. Yes, we have been here many times before on that. The home office has decided when it comes housing people when it comes to housing people in hotels , that they must be in in hotels, that they must be in a three star hotel or above. Do a three star hotel or above. Do you with that policy . I you agree with that policy . I dont agree with policy. Dont agree with that policy. They could be in one star. So they could be in one star. But i go further than that, camilla, youve me say camilla, and youve heard me say this everyones heard me camilla, and youve heard me say thisthis. Everyones heard me camilla, and youve heard me say thisthis. Weeveryones heard me camilla, and youve heard me say thisthis. We hadones heard me camilla, and youve heard me say thisthis. We had a1es heard me camilla, and youve heard me say thisthis. We had a proposali me camilla, and youve heard me say thisthis. We had a proposal inle say this. We had a proposal in the for immigration to the new plan for immigration to build Reception Centres. I called them greek style Reception Centres because they had facilities. Had detention facilities. And its that people that its important that people that come here illegally are detained. Yes. So theyre in a no hotels. I think, first of all, because we have our laws, so our laws basically say you cant detain people unless you can actually remove people. Keep them in yeah, but you keep them in a Reception Centre to which the government could argue theyve got with sites in wethersfield and braintree in my local area. But its not, its not the same because be purpose because there should be purpose built can be built where people can be tracked basically so that they cant abscond. And the cant abscond. And the Government People arent government says people arent absconding they absconding, but they are leaving. Need know what is leaving. We need to know what is happening with people and then you can process their asylum cases on site so individuals you can process their asylum cases whatte so individuals you can process their asylum cases what is so individuals you can process their asylum cases what is happening. |ls know what is happening. Othennise just becomes a complete. So it sounds like you think that the home office under Suella Braverman is being too soft migrants . Well, soft on these migrants . Well, i dont the i dont dont think the i dont i actually dont think the approach is right. And as i ive got and as i said, ive got a migrant camp in wethersfield in my district in braintree district. Frankly, we district. And quite frankly, we are locally local are its locally local residents, our local councils are paying for this, that its been opaque. Theres been no transparency on financial payments. So you know, politicians in government can make claims and statements saying Asylum Seekers are coming here and theyre using our nhs. Here and theyre using our nhs. In wethersfield we have a private contractor here, even though our own local residents have no access to the nhs and cant get gp appointments and things of that nature. So i think the government has to be transparent is going transparent about what is going on. Being transparent. On. Its not being transparent. The department know exactly what ive im ive been saying about this. Im in contact with them. In Constant Contact with them. Im getting straightfonnard im not getting straightfonnard answers, is a classic answers, but this is a classic case of people in government saying one thing doing saying one thing and doing something completely different. My is, is that they should my view is, is that they should have had purpose built Reception Centres where basically i mean, they couldnt build them that quickly, though, could they, though . Youre saying you said they could have. Have. When the new they could have. When the new plan immigration plan for immigration was government policy under a democratically elected government come government that should have come together. Know together. But you and i know what happened year, baby what happened last year, baby thrown with the bathwater. Thrown out with the bathwater. Other that other people come in, think that they baby is boris they can you the baby is boris actually our policies. Yeah. Actually all our policies. Yeah. So the policies of the 2019 manifesto have been taken away. Manifesto have been taken away. That was a new plan for immigration being one them. Immigration being one of them. Where do you hear people in government now speaking up . Think that the problem government now speaking up . Rishi think that the problem government now speaking up . Rishi andlk that the problem government now speaking up . Rishi and thelat the problem government now speaking up . Rishi and the currentjroblem with rishi and the current cabinet is that theyve torn up the party manifesto. The tory party manifesto. Come their theyve come in with their own interpretation . Yeah, we were elected in 2019 on the peoples priorities very, peoples priorities with very, very and that very clear objectives and that is manifesto. Is the manifesto. You must like the watering down the net stuff that down of the net zero stuff that was the manifesto and now was in the manifesto and has now slightly climbed down upon slightly been climbed down upon to that. To you about that. Previously. We previously. You know, we cannot headlong cannot just run headlong particularly with inflation. Particularly now with inflation. Inflation double digit. Its inflation was double digit. Its now come thankfully. But now come down thankfully. But also a time when theres also at a time when theres a cost of living crisis where people, you know, are really struggling, you cannot put more taxes camilla and this taxes on them. Camilla and this is net zero agenda was is a point net zero agenda was full of cost , greater financial full of cost, greater Financial Burdens and more taxes on people. That has to stop. You know, as conservatives, we meant to be on the side of hard working, hard pressed individuals, businesses and families. Is families. And this is effectively we need to effectively where we need to come to being more come back to being much more going quite wrong on a number of different well, would different levels. Well, i would like a much more bold, like to see a much more bold, ambitious , thus conservative ambitious, thus conservative agenda based on conservative principles. Welcome back to the Camilla Tominey show live from the conservative Party Conference in manchester. Its a little bit of a busmans holiday now because im here with my telegraph colleague, ben riley smith, who has this brilliant book. Has written this brilliant book. Hes the Political Editor at the telegraph, book is telegraph, and the book is called rule poor called the right to rule poor old i mean, what a task you old ben. I mean, what a task you have had to go over the last 13 years. Chris where to even begin . What im intrigued by, we start another conference. You know, theres fighting going on left, right and centre. I receive a memo overnight slagging off michael gove, reminding a reminding me that he is a net zero right from zero zealot right from an anonymous sender. Okay, then weve got this Whatsapp Group being exposed for calling rishi sunak somebody with the charisma of a door weve got liz truss bringing up the rear saying we cant have any more tax rises. Cant have any more tax rises. Are they a united party . Have they ever been . Ben, what is it with this lot . Well, theyre certainly not united party right now. I think rishi sunak did quite a good job in that first year of stabilising things, of papering over because over the cracks because i think all whether you dislike all tories, whether you dislike rishi or like him, they accepted that last these that last year. These two overhauls bad with the overhauls look bad with the public, so they smoothed things oven public, so they smoothed things over. But no, there are huge cracks then coming cracks beyond it and then coming days to them days youre going to see them emerge on illegal emerge on tax on illegal immigration and whether to pull emerge on tax on illegal imntheition and whether to pull emerge on tax on illegal imnthe echr. Nd whether to pull emerge on tax on illegal imnthe echr. So whether to pull emerge on tax on illegal imnthe echr. So yeah,er to pull emerge on tax on illegal imnthe echr. So yeah, there ull emerge on tax on illegal imnthe echr. So yeah, there are out the echr. So yeah, there are deep divisions. And when you are 1520 behind the 1520 points behind in the opinion they are right opinion polls as they are right now, ten according one now, maybe ten according to one today, which a little bit today, which looks a little bit more hopeful. But why do you think that the conservatives a conservatives cant pick a leader with them . Leader and stick with them . I mean, it is extraordinary, isnt it . Since 2016 mean . Well, one of the fun bits in the book was trying get to the book was trying to get to all these key players and ask them that question. So i got to all these key players and ask therplusit question. So i got to all these key players and ask therplus people. On. So i got to all these key players and ask therplus people. Boris i got to all these key players and ask therplus people. Boris johnson, 120 plus people. Boris johnson, liz cameron, liz truss, David Cameron, various others. And one thing that came was the tories are that came out was the tories are more ruthless in their pursuit of labour, think, of power than labour, i think, and structures to and have the structures to shapeshift what they mean to the public. You know, it only takes 15 of their mps to trigger a no confidence vote in labour. Its 20 and theyve all got to do it on the record. So they have on the record. So they have a structure that if they feel the pubuc structure that if they feel the public moving against public are moving against them, they can get rid of a leader and change yeah, change quite quickly. Yeah, i think what weve seen think thats what weve seen over the last couple of years and that is different from laboun priti patel referred to it as throwing the out the throwing the baby out with the bathwater earlier. She meant the deposing of Boris Johnson. I also asked michael gove, you know, did he regret that moment when back in 2016 . When he knifed him back in 2016 . Had not have knifed him, had he not have knifed him, things could have been really different. Do we see different. I mean, do we see that as the catalyst to the destruction that followed . Because some times try and because some times you try and trace of the roads of kind trace all of the roads of kind of tory turmoil back to something . Yeah, it sort of does seem to lead back to that that moment. Seem to lead back to that that mo well,. Think the big moment, well, i think the big moment, i suppose, was an accidental brexit. Like. Uk brexit. If you like. Yes, the uk government didnt want it to happen the time. David happen at the time. David cameron, george osborne, the pubuc and cameron, george osborne, the public and then public voted for it and then suddenly had the economic suddenly you had the economic and policy tossed in the and Foreign Policy tossed in the air was in that scramble air and it was in that scramble that followed got these that followed that you got these betrayal. Know, if michael betrayal. You know, if michael gove hadnt turned on Boris Johnson race johnson in the leadership race right after that referendum, probably Boris Johnson would have minister, have become Prime Minister, probably roots would probably the grass roots would have brexiteer. Yeah have picked a brexiteer. Yeah and maybe you would have and then maybe you would have had the had he would have had the ability push it through ability to push it through parliament. Would parliament. Maybe he would have won the next election. That came where may should have where theresa may should have won. Really. She was miles ahead. And but no, ahead. Yes. And lost. But no, i think brexit is the kind of seismic moment in this 13 years, the and after and the before and after point. And its brexit. You know, its since brexit. You know, cameron was in power. Tory leader years before that leader for 11 years before that and these kind of and then you had these kind of three successive changes in 6 or 7 years. Certainly that kind 7 years. So certainly that kind of the snowglobe of scrambling of the snowglobe of scrambling of the snowglobe of politics has had all these repercussions us. Of politics has had all these reprhat ions us. Of politics has had all these reprhat do 5 us. Of politics has had all these reprhat do you us. Of politics has had all these reprhat do you make of some what do you make of some suggestions in the week that liz truss is eyeing up second bid . Truss is eyeing up a second bid . Should all go wrong the should it all go wrong for the tories next general election . Ben i dont think she genuinely thinks she can be leader minister again, genuinely thinks she can be lea ilr minister again, genuinely thinks she can be lea | do minister again, genuinely thinks she can be lea | do think minister again, genuinely thinks she can be lea | do think she nister again, genuinely thinks she can be lea | do think she thinksagain, genuinely thinks she can be lea | do think she thinks shen, but i do think she thinks she can shape who will be the next Prime Minister leader again. Prime minister or leader again. And shes champing, and thats why shes champing, earning the of of the earning the kind of side of the argument believes in. Argument that she believes in. The tax cutting, the scaling back because to back of regulations, because to me, it seems like got one me, it seems like shes got one eye could happen late eye on what could happen late next they lose an next year if they lose an election. There is a leadership race. She wants those policies and of the to party and that side of the to party prevail. Despite happened prevail. Despite what happened last do you think cincinnatus and do you think cincinnatus bofis and do you think cincinnatus boris come back at some boris wants to come back at some point, plough point, return from his plough and power . And take up power . Im sure if he is given the snapshot. I mean, we saw it last yean snapshot. I mean, we saw it last year, right . He out of year, right . He was out of downing street something year, right . He was out of dowsixg street something year, right . He was out of dow six weeks. Something year, right . He was out of dow six weeks. Yes something year, right . He was out of dow six weeks. Yes seven hing year, right . He was out of dowsix weeks. Yes seven weeks. Like six weeks. Yes seven weeks. And still tried to come so and still tried to come back. So im there possibly im sure if there was possibly a way do it, he would. I mean, way to do it, he would. I mean, there are quite a few steps there are quite a few steps there now. Hes got somehow get back into parliament. So i doubt its imminent. Think its imminent. I dont think its imminent. I dont think its in the next its going to be in the next race. But hes keeping race. But im sure hes keeping half eye on it. Said when half an eye on it. He said when he leaving, im stepping he was leaving, im stepping away from parliament for so away from parliament for now. So i there was ever the i think if there was ever the opportunity, would at that. How do you think rishi sunak is doing . I was saying to nigel nelson earlier, i think hes in a better position he a better position now than he was can he gain was six months ago. Can he Gain Momentum we hear momentum because we hear from his people . Very confident, his people . Hes very confident, hes thinks they can hes bullish. He thinks they can win the election is, win whenever the election is, which is when you think which is when do you think spnng which is when do you think spring autumn . Spring or autumn . Still think its autumn. I still think its autumn. I dont quite understand the rationale for why be rationale for why would be spring. I liken it to spring. I mean, i liken it to a man with a guillotine above hanging their and hanging above their neck and kind willingly the kind of willingly snipping the rope. You are so rope. You know, if you are so far behind, why you think far behind, why dont you think give couple of months and give it a couple of months and maybe something come up. Maybe something will come up. You an argument you know, theres an argument for johnson lasted for Boris Johnson lasted longer as minister because as Prime Minister because ukraine happened from ukraine war happened out from the field it calmed the left field and it calmed tory because they had tory nerves because they had to rally behind Prime Minister. Rally behind the Prime Minister. It misplaced optimism but is it misplaced optimism for rishi sunak, think, for rishi sunak, do you think, or a chance they could or is there a chance they could actually this . Or is there a chance they could act|well, this . Or is there a chance they could act|well, neveri . Or is there a chance they could act|well, never say never know. Well, never say never know. You know, in 2017, theresa may was miles , miles, miles of was miles, miles, miles ahead of jeremy she ended up jeremy corbyn, and she ended up at of campaign at the end of that campaign losing tory majority. Losing the tory majority. I mean, what they really mean, i think what they really think zoom in on think is if you zoom in on specific policy areas rather than just loosely thinking about politics, these politics, they can draw these dividing lines have dividing lines that have the electorate the right side of them and labour. So net zero drive as possibly trans issues, possibly tax cuts later down the line. Well, is it as simple as that . You know, clarify whether or not a woman can have a penis. Scrap iht bring Corporation Tax down, carry on with the climate , climb down, do a couple of other things that are good for the righties and everything will be okay. Well, the problem is on the big stuff they classically run on, you have a problem because normally its economic competence front and centre in a tory re election bid and that has drifted away after the debacle autumn and the debacle in the autumn and the changes market. So the changes on the market. So the strategists scrabbling strategists are scrabbling around trying to things around trying to pick things that they zoom in on, that if they zoom in on, they can beat on on that. Can beat labour on on that. Do we think sunak is do we think rishi sunak is happy hunt . I say this happy with hunt . I say this because again, there were some whispers week, you know whispers in the week, you know whats relationship whats their relationship like . Because not osborne because its not osborne and cameron, it . Cameron, is it . No. 0. 1. As i write in the book, jeremy was not rishi book, jeremy hunt was not rishi sunaks first choice. Thats right. He was having he had to be told, by the way, youre told, oh, by the way, youre going have to keep this guy going to have to keep this guy to keep the markets happy and sunak, showed sunak, which i thought showed a bit political naivety, sort bit of political naivety, sort of oh, hadnt considered of went, oh, i hadnt considered that. Yeah, if hed won that. I think, yeah, if hed won in that summer, i think the names that were knocking around were john were Oliver Dowden and john glen. Of figures who these types of figures who are close to rishi for that are very close to rishi for that spot. But he came in after the second race next year, which was all calming markets, all about calming the markets, calming you had calming the party. If you had a chancellor switching the chancellor there, switching the chancellor, think they thought chancellor, i think they thought it much of a of an it would be too much of a of an upheaval. I think they are quite like minded. Theyre both kind of moderate, centrist tories who believe in fiscal responsibility. Yeah, its responsibility. But yeah, its certainly he had certainly true that if he had a clean slate in the summer, he wouldnt picked hunt for wouldnt have picked hunt for the sunak to finish. The add on sunak to finish. Ben, who this guy really . Ben, who is this guy really . I his maiden i mean, you look at his maiden speech, very thatcherite. I mean, you look at his maiden spesays, very thatcherite. I mean, you look at his maiden spesays, i very thatcherite. I mean, you look at his maiden spesays, i amry thatcherite. I mean, you look at his maiden spesays, i amrybrexiteer,te. He says, i am a brexiteer, although he didnt do that much kind of high profile campaigning. Hes claims campaigning. Hes like claims to be sometimes be a conservative, but sometimes he very well disguised. He keeps it very well disguised. Well, the and yeah, well, in the telegraph, at the weekend, we interviewed Oliver Dowden, deputy very close deputy pm, but also very close to he said, the to rishi and he said, look, the truth this guy is much, much, truth is this guy is much, much, much of traditional low tax, much of a traditional low tax, low regulation tory than sometimes let and sometimes he might let on. And i think you will see think this autumn you will see the rishi beginning the real rishi beginning to stand look, im not stand up and say, look, im not just an administrator. I do have some ideology. Some ideology. Away. Away. The temperature is rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Weather on. Gb news. Hello there , im greg hello there, im Greg Dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. It stays mixed over the next few days. Well see some rain at few days. Well see some rain at times, but there will be some drier and brighter intervals. Temperatures generally on the warm side the time of year. Warm side for the time of year. At the moment, low pressure generally dominates the weather pattern. This area high pattern. But this area of High Pressure to move in pressure starts to move in towards the middle of the week across the south, across the south. This evening, though , south. This evening, though, quite cloudy picture, outbreaks of at too. Of patchy rain at times, too. And that continues overnight. Some low cloud mist and murk developing here further north, generally drier, some clear spells Northern Ireland, spells for Northern Ireland, scotland, windy scotland, but turning windy across highlands with across the highlands with showers here temperatures showers here and temperatures for generally staying in for most generally staying in double figures. A warm start to double figures. A warm start to the day across southern counties of england and wales. Quite cloudy here there with patchy rain and drizzle and then through the day well see cloud amounts increase england amounts increase across england and heavy rain and wales. Some heavy rain developing skies for developing bright skies for Northern Ireland and scotland through but still some through the day, but still some scattered windy scattered showers staying windy across of across the north west of scotland. Temperatures high scotland. Temperatures high teens to low 20 to 20 2 or 23 possible towards the far south east where we any south east where we see any sunshine into tuesday. Weve got early rain clearing south eastwards. And then its a eastwards. And then its a bnght eastwards. And then its a bright day with sunny spells and scattered showers. Showers moving in quite quickly across the northern half the uk on the northern half of the uk on that westerly breeze. Best that brisk westerly breeze. Best of the sunshine across southern areas. A little areas. Temperatures a little lower staying lower, but staying around average the next few days average over the next few days before increasing further towards see you towards the weekend. See you soon. On. Im lisa hartle in the gb news room. A promise to increase efforts to stop Illegal Migrants from entering the country. Entering the country has been made at the conservative Party Conference. Thats as the latest figures show, more than 537 people were intercepted trying to cross the channel yesterday. The foreign secretary, James Cleverly told the Party Faithful hes working with International Allies to stop the boats. Ive written to all of our ambassadors, all of our high commissioners and ive instructed each and every one of them to do even more work with them to do even more work with the countries in which they represent the uk to help stop the abhorrent trafficking of human lives across the english channel. Ill be in no doubt, no doubt at all. Our diplomats will redouble their effort to bring an end to this terrible , an end to this terrible, terrible injustice. Terrible injustice. Earlier, the Tory Party Chairman used his opening address to take a swipe at laboun address to take a swipe at labour. I have these available all at the conservative shop outside for just £16. 99. Also online waving flip flops featuring sir Keir Starmers face. Greg hands mocked the labour leader, suggesting he doesnt have a clear position on issues affect ing the country. His affect ing the country. His comments came just hours after the Prime Minister refused to commit