Transcripts For KPIX Face The Nation 20240712

Removed by those who have had enough. Chokeholds and other Police Tactics are being given closer scrutiny from the federal to the local level. But divisions and questions of incense difficult from our leaders about race continue. I think ive done more for the black community than any other president , and ill take pass on abraham lincoln, because he did good, although its always questionable. We are free, mr. President. He did pretty well. Brennan but the president planned to hold a israeli in the city that is home to one of the worst outbreaks of racial violence in racial history a day after juneteenth, the anniversary of the end of slavery and 99 years after the tulsa massacre has been widely criticized. Well talk with senators tim scott and cory booker. Plus Seattle Police chief carmen best. We will vanquish the virus. We will extinguish this plague. Brennan but we are far from it. Even as Top Health Officials step up their warnings and issue new guidelines on covid19, the do what i do, not what i say mindset continues from the Trump Administration almost the president s plan for Campaign Rallies set to start this week in indoor arenas spark even more spread . Well check in with former f. D. A. Commissioner dr. Scott gottlieb. After a volatile week on wall street, well talk with the head of the Dallas Federal Reserve scott kaplan. Police political perspective from these troubled times with john dickerson. Its all just ahead on face the nation. Brennan good morning and welcome to face the nation. After 19 Straight Days and nights of outrage following the death of george floyd, a weary and emotionally drained america has settled into a trifecta of crises affecting every part of our culture and society. We will continue to bring you all the news on all three fronts as the race to contain the coronavirus to repair our devastated economy and to fix systematic racism keeps moving. Cbs News National correspondent Mark Strassmann begins our Coverage Today from atlanta. Reporter atlanta, known as the city too busy to hate, was in turmoil overnight. Protestors enraged by another Deadly Police shooting took to the streets. They blocked a stretch of downtown interstates confronted by dozens of police in riot gear. Atlanta does burning. Some protestors torched this wendys where the shooting took place. On friday night, two White Atlanta Police Officers wrestled with rashard brooks after he failed a sobriety field test. He grabbed one of their tasers and ran. The second officer chased him, firing his taser. Seconds later off camera, you hear what sounds like three gunshots. [gunfire] the 27yearold brooks died at the hospital. Investigators say he had turned around and pointed a taser at the officer chasing him, and the officer shot him. Within 24 hours, atlantas police chief resigned. And the mayor called for the officer to be fired. There is a clear distinction between what you can do and what you should do. Reporter officer devin broadman was terminated. His partner was suspended. Its the latest deadly moment that explains this, saturdays march many los angeles and another in washington, d. C. In all 50 states, protesters demand a vaccine for americas other killer virus racism. Police chokehold, police budget, police attitudes all under review. But expect a fight. To then demonize Police Officers as if were the problem, as if we broke the window, as if we caused the violence, that is absolutely outrageous. Reporter another federal battleground, confederate symbols keep falling, like rebel soldiers. Nascar banned the federal flag. Confederate statues vandalized across the south, but as crowds clamor for an american renewal, there is a new health worry. In at least 20 states, new covid cases are rising. Experts see a potential Health Threat in crowds of protestors shoulder to shoulder shouting. Back in atlanta, Chris Stewart is the lawyer for rashard Brooks Family we want justice, but i dont care anymore. I dont know what that is. Reporter this is the wendys where the original confrontation took place. This city is bracing for another round of protests tonight. Atlanta is smoldering, just like this restaurant. Margaret . Brennan Mark Strassmann, thanks. We go now to mount pleasant, south carolina, and republican senator tim scott. Good morning to you, senator. Good morning, margaret. I hope youre doing well. Brennan its great to have you back. I want to get into your proposal but first ask you about whats happened overnight where protests are continued in atlanta after rashard brooks was shot. The man, the officer who shot him has been fired. The police chief resigned. Was this an excessive use of force . The question is when the suspect turns with taser, what should the officer have done . One of the challenges is these splitsecond decisions is the need for more training. Thats why the deescalation aspect of my bill and the house bill is so critically important so we dont revert back the basic fear plus adrenaline leads us to the ja nettic code stork speak. Thats hard balance to achieve, so in order for us to provide more opportunities to deescalate these situations and to reduce the use of force, we have to have effective training. That situation is certainly a far less clear one than the ones that we saw with george floyd and several other ones around the country. Brennan this is how it was handled on a local level, but you have the responsibility on your shoulders of how the reform things from the federal level down. What do you think needs to be in the bill that youre working on . We have to have all the information. Today only 40 of departments are providing information to doj. We need 100 as it relates to serious Bodily Injury and death. When the officer uses force, we need to have all the information. I have been working on this, margaret, for five years. The second thing we have to do is look at training and tactics. If we do that, we can certainly deescalate the situation and make sure that the officer and the suspect go home and the third part of it is officer misconduct. If we can drill into officer misconduct, we do it on the local level, house has been talking about doing it on the state level, the president s executive order talks about doing it on a national level. Brennan officer misconduct. Youve been talking about having information sharing when it comes to hiring. But what about the firing . Democrats in particular emphasize that reducing qualified immunity, making it easier to fire bad cops needs to be in legislation. Are you open to that . Well, there are two ways that you can deal with that. From the republican perspective, qualified immunity is off the table. They see that as a poison pill. On our side we could use the decertification of officers, except for the Law Enforcement union. They say thats a poison pill some were going to have to find a path that helps us reducing misconduct within the officers, but at the same time, we know that any poison pill in legislation means we get nothing done. That sends the wrong signal, perhaps the worst signal, right now in america. I think were going to have legislation that can be negotiated, that gets us to the place where something becomes law that actually makes a difference. Thats got to be our goal. Brennan to be clear, you personally would be open the reducing immunity but not removing it completely . No, i think theres a way for us to deal with a decertification that would be path that i would be interested in looking at. That is a path thats got a roadblock, because i dont have the votes on the other side to make that into law. If we do it right, i think we can reduce the number of times that were dealing with misconduct on the police department. If we dont do it right, then well have the same situation where there is no law. We can do better than that as nation, an we will. Brennan we spoke with the attorney general last sunday on face the nation, and he pointed to a growing number of African American Police Chiefs as a sign of progress. He also said this i think theres racism in the United States still, but i dont think that the Law Enforcement system is systematically racist. Brennan you talked about your own personal experiences with being targeted, stopped by police, even on capitol hill by a Police Officer who questioned whether you were a senator. Do you agree with the attorney general that there is not systematic racism in Law Enforcement . Well, i will say most of us dont really understand the definition of systematic racism. It changes based on the conversation. What i would suggest is that you look at the racial outcomes. Is there a nexus to race in some of the outcomes of Law Enforcement . I think the answer is yes. Can we reduce that so were no longer battling the question of the definition of systematic or systematic racism . I think answer is yes. But there is no question that the outcomes seem to have a racial component and thats why were working on getting all the information and retraining and then eliminating those Police Officers that have a pattern of misbehavior. Brennan you said the president of the United States is not racist but he is racially insensitive. This past week you scheduled and rescheduled by a day his First Political rally in three months. It was scheduled for june 19th, the celebration of the end of slavery, and located in a city, tulsa, oklahoma, that was the site of one of the worst massacres of black people in this countrys history. The symbolism alone here seems damaging. Should he just call it off . Hes welcome to go wherever he wants to go. Im thankful that he proved it. Certainly the tulsa, oklahoma, race riots were the worst in American History. Next year is the 100th anniversary. The president moving the date by day once he was informed on what juneteenth was, that was a good decision on his part. I think if we look at the president s speech at west point, we find really what i think is the path forward on how to talk about these really encouraging issues of racial progress and those issues that are discouraging to the racial divide. It was this school that gave us the men and women who fought and won a bloody war to extinguish the evil of slavery. The army was at the forefront of ending the terrible injustice of segregation. If we hear more of, that our nation will turn its head and listen a little closer to what the president says on issues of race. That is the path forward for this nation. It is finding the Common Ground and those institutions that bring us together. Without that we may be looking at worse outcomes, not better out comes in the next few months. Brennan just to be clear, you think no one on the Trump Campaign or in the Trump White House had any idea of the significance of these two events. My understanding is he proved the date once he understood that juneteenth. Im not sure that the planners on his inner circle team thought about june 19th, tulsa, oklahoma, and race riots. Unless youre doing an historical check, you probably dont give those dots connected, but i have always said my staff in washington is an incredibly diverse staff and diversity on our staff help us avoid some of the pitfalls. The president fortunately has some folks that used to work with me who i think helped to inform and educate the president on why tulsa, oklahoma, june 19th was not the best state to the best date to do it on. Thats why he proved it. Brennan senator scott, thank you for your time this morning. Yes, maam, thank you. Brennan and well be back in one member with senator cory booker, who is standing by. While keeping us safe. Weve given masks to all our people and were helping our customers practice social distancing in stores. Weve implemented shorter hours, so we can sanitize our stores from top to bottom while also restocking our products. But if anything, these days have reminded us why we do what we do. Because despite everything thats changed, one thing hasnt, and thats our devotion to you and our communities. Were working together, instore and online, through pickup and delivery, to make sure you can still get the essentials you need. And as we move forward, know that our First Priority will always be to keep you and our associates safe. Brennan for the democratic perspective on policing, we want the speak now to new jersey senator cory booker who joins us from his home in newark. Good morning to you, senator. Good morning, margaret. Thank you for having me brennan in atlanta, was the killing of Rayshard Brooks and example to use of excessive use of force . As the mayor of new jerseys largest city with a police department, if one of my officers shot someone in the back while they were fleeing with a nondeadly weapon, that is unjustice use of force. And its unacceptable to community standards. Its very unfortunate. And its tragic. Brennan given the broader concern at the federal level on how to come up with legislation that both sides can get behind, you heard senator scott say that when it comes to qualified immunity, the administration has made clear to him that is a poison pill. It can not be in any kind of legislation. How do you offset the concerns of the administration that qualified immunity helps well, its necessary, because police need to make splitsecond decisions, and they cant be thinking twice in a way that inhibits them from doing their job. How do you offset that specific concern . Well, lets understand that qualified immunity right now is not a democraticsupported thing. Clarence thomas and conservative Supreme Court justices say that we need to reexamine qualified immunity. Some of my republican colleagues in the senate right now have come forward to me and said, we need to reexamine qualified immunity. Qualified immunity allows a case in washington where a pregnant woman, seven months pregnant, was dragged into a street for not signing a parking ticket and tased three times. No accountability. Those Police Officers had qualified immunity. Its a case in utah where a bicycle rider 100 yards away was shot multiple times by multiple police and they claim it was mistaken identity, no accountability in terms of qualified immunity, even in ok a oma. Man with pneumonia wandering, stumbling through a hospital, unarmed, was shot and killed by police. So i could go through horrific example after horrific example. We have to ask ourselves as a society, do we want to have nation where Police Officers do really awful things and cannot be held accountable through civil rights charges. Thats unacceptable. I hear what folks are saying, but when there are so many conservative voices talking about qualified immunity and when we know that no one in america should be above the law, i think its time that we change qualified immunity. Brennan what you heard senator scott say was the term poison pill, meaning this could sink everything else. What about his idea that he floated there of decertification as a way to reduce officer misconduct . Well, every american should think to themselves, if your wife or daughter or Family Member was that pregnant woman who was brought out into the middle of the street for not signing a traffic ticket and tased three times, is deasserted pication a real accountability is decertification a real accountability . We near a nation where the sense of whats possible has shifted. The bill i just did with incredible partners like Kamala Harris and house members, that would have been poison pills a month ago. This is a moment in American History where there are things in the republican bill that allow still chokeholds or noknock warrants which are being banned right now from kentucky to new york. This is not a time for lowest common denominator, watereddown reforms. Its a time to stop the problem, because if someones knee is on your neck, you cant take it halfway off and say that thats progress. We have to say the tools with which to stop people from dying, and any bill should have a ban on racial and religious profiling called for by george bush in his first address to congress. Brennan but are you saying on this one particular issue that you will not sign any bill unless there is a reduction that would allow for it to be easier to prosecute bad cops . Look, i have witnessed in my life the awful criminal Justice System getting worse from 1980 until now. Our incarceration has gone up 500 in america. It was part of a compromise bill to liberate thousands of people out of prisons. So i do the best i can in the first step we did the pare down a system of mass incarceration which the land of the three has one of every three women on planet earth even though were only 5 of the gross population. Do i want progress . Yes. But when you talk about signing a bill thats the lowest common denominator, its meaning that well revisit this again when another unarmed black person gets killed and the nation erupts. We should be seeking to solve the problem, pushing back, and getting as big of a coalition as we probably can brennan youre saying there is a chance here that this moment could. You could miss the moment, that democrats and republicans wont be able to come to a compromise . No, im saying they we can miss the moment by not solving the problem and ending practices that we know would make a difference to saving lives, things like having Police Misconduct registries open to the public, because sunshine is the best disinfectant. Im going to do everything i can in this moment every day with artists of activism, nonviolent protestors out in the streets. Brennan i want to ask you about this moment. Its an year. Emotions are already supercharged in this election year. The president quoted michael moore, a filmmaker, that said, democrats shouldnt underestimate white male Trump Supporters rage and emotion. You heard senator scott about whether it is ignorance or deliberateness to plan a rally around juneteenth. Do you believe you can come to a compromise with this administration on this issue . Well, this is what i know i know the heart of tim scott and senators like senator braun who said to me qualified immunity is on the table. We are one body of the United States senate. And people of good heart and good spirit, readless of what the president does, he can veto a bill, but we should come forward in this moment in history, which would be judged. We should put our best face effort forward to put a bill forward that will stop the awful violence and killing of unarm people that we see in our country. We can do that. We know what works, and we know that half measures have not worked in the past, from ferguson to minneapolis. We know what will work. This is not a radical bill. We can get this done brennan we will watch. Thank you very much, senator booker. Well be right back with Seattle Police chief carmen best. music polo marco. polo si . Marco. polo scusa . Marco. polo ma io sono marco polo, ma playing marco polo with marco polo . Surprising. Ragazzini, io sono marco polo. Si, sono qui whats not surprising . Geico helping you save even more on car and motorcycle insurance. Ahhh. Polo. Marco. polo now get an extra 15 credit when you switch before october 7th. Brennan we go now to seattle where this weeks several blocks of one neighborhood were shut down in order for protesters against Racial Injustice and Police Brutality. The police there vacated the precinct. It is a situation that has drawn considerable criticism from President Trump. Joining us now is Seattle Police chief carmen best. Good morning to you, chief. Good morning, margaret. Thank you so much for having me here. Brennan i want to talk about whats happening in your city, but first off, i want to give you a chance to respond to what you just heard the two senators talking about, which is how you do your job. What do you think of these proposals . Well, i can tell you, margaret, i think all the time about how we might improve policing and what were experiencing in the field every day. I absolutely believe in accountability, but i think weve moved away from using the word reform. We were under a Consent Decree for almost a decade in the police department. We followed every rule and everything that was asked of us to do brennan that was the Justice Department looking at whether there was a pattern or practice of bias in policing. Thats what youre referring to . Yes, yes, and thats what the Consent Decree is. Essentially they laid out a roadmap and a game plan for us to fol lowe while they reviewed us with a federal monitor. What i believe, especially after i was at a march yesterday or the day before yesterday with black lives matter, and i was looking at the 60,000 people that were there, signs saying, you know, defund the police, stop Police Brutality, you know, no qualified immunity, and there were thousands of people carrying those particular signs. I realized there was a moment, and epiphany that this is a Pivotal Moment in history. We are going to move in a different direction, and police willing never be the same as it was before brennan what do you think specifically of reducing immunity . Well, i think thats really a conversation for the politicians and the judicial people to have about how that works and what that looks like. I think theres various iterations that have been proposed. I think that that is a better discussion in that arena. But i do believe the considerations of the public need to be infused in whatever that outcome is. Brennan okay. So i would have to defer to that as a better forum to have that discussion. I can say brennan let me take a quick break here, because i want to talk to you and give you time to explain what is going on in seattle right now. Lets take a commercial break and continue the conversation with police chief best in our with police chief best in our next half hour. Be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. Listen to the doctor. Take it seriously. I was drowning in credit card debt. Sofi helped me pay off twentythree thousand dollars of credit card debt. They helped me consolidate all of that into one low monthly payment. They make you feel like its an honor for them to help you out. I went from sleepless nights to getting my money right. So thank you. Imagine if we we would be such good friends. Best friends. Advantage ii, kills fleas through contact all month long. I mean hes a wreck without me. Advantage ii, fight the misery of biting fleas. Brennan well be back with much more face the nation. What are americas colleges and yowftses planning to do this fall . Its a test no one wants to fail. Is it worth the risk then to bring everybody back . 60 minutes ton ht. Brennan welcome back to face the nation. We want to continue our conversation with Seattle Police chief carmen best. Chief, thank you for staying with us. You know, theres a lot of focus on your city. Republican lawmakers have called this sixblock area that the police had left and that protestors are occupying, theyre saying it is like a war zone, that warlords are running rampant, the president himself has said domestic terrorists have taken it over. Youre the police chief. What is happening in this socalled capitol hill autonomous zone . Well, there are people who have occupied the area. My understanding is they have actually changed the name to the capitol hill occupied protest area. There are a lot of folks there, a lot of differing objectives and agendas of people who have congregated into the area. One of our real challenges there is trying to determine who is a leader of an influencer. That seems to change daily. I know that many of our city officials and others are trying to establish some sort of communication with someone who can give us some direction about what the intent is and how we might move forward. Brennan so i had read reports in the wall street journal and elsewhere with black lives matter who said they didnt want the hand over control until funding to the police is cut. You are saying its not that clear of a negotiation. How long will this last . Those are great questions. I wish i had the answer to how long it might last. I can tell you we want to move it forward as quickly and efficiently as possible. But my concern as a police chief, besides what i want to be back in our precinct doing the work is we dont want to we dont want anyone there to be harmed. We dont want this to be something that devolving into a force situation. So were really trying to take a methodical, practical approach to reach a resolution where everyone gets out of here safely. Brennan but you believe its peaceful, just to be clear . For the time being, yes, it is brennan you are a police chief. I just wonder, when you look as what has happened overnight if atlanta where this shooting occurred, the two officers involved are under scrutiny. One of them was fired. The police chief the ergs the police chief herself resigned even though she was not overseeing this directly at that moment. I wonder, given all the tension, what it is like to be a police chief right now . Do you feel like there is just zero room for any kind of error, and have you changed the way youre doing your job . Well, certainly youre probably aware of the temporary restraining order that does not allow us to use pepper spray or flashbangs, so in some ways thats already been a change were having to work through. I can tell you this. I was mentioning earlier that i was at the black lives matter march. And i saw many people carrying signs about defunding the police and Police Brutality and looking at resolving the qualified immunity issue. So i know standing there watching and listening that were going to change in policing. We have to. It has to be a movement. That involves everybody. We need to reimagine and refigure out, if you will, how were going the move forward as a country and as an organization to make things better for everybody. Its incredibly difficult, but with every challenge, theres opportunity. Theres opportunity to move forward and bring people together and get positive change. I absolutely believe that. So some stressful situations are not going to deviate me or my organization from leading the way and trying to make things better for all of us. Brennan well, chief, good luck. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for having me brennan we turn now to more news this week on the coronavirus crisis. Former f. D. A. Commissioner dr. Scott gottlieb joins us from westport, connecticut. Good morning to you. Good morning. Brennan do you set us straight here . The c. D. C. Said this week that expanded testing is what accounts for this increase that were seeing in covid19 rates and that hospitalizations nationally are going down. But then dr. Anthony fauci publicly said that whats happening is something obviously thats disturbing. Who is right . Whats going on . Well, hospitalizations nationally are flat. Theyre not going down. Theyre flat when you look at the total hospitalizations across the entire United States. What were seeing is that parts of the country that had persistent spread that never crushed their epidemic now have flareups in surging cases as they reopen. That was expected, but the challenge is parts of the country, states like texas, florida, georgia, north carolina, south carolina, where you see those outbreaks right now, never really reduced the number of cases substantially. They had spread. It was persistent. Now its flaring up some in arizona you see 1,500 cases recorded recently. In florida 2,600, california 3,700, to put that in perspective, at its peak of the epidemic in new york city, there were 5,000 cases a day recorded. Now, granted, we werent diagnosing as high as a age of case, but these are big outbreaks under way in these parts of the country. What you also see is a Positivity Rate going up. The age of people who are testing positive is increasing. Thats bad combination, seeing cases go up and seeing the Positivity Rate also increase suggests there are outbreaks under way. Brennan do we know enough at this point to attribute the uptick to the reopening . Well, its certainly attributed to the reopening. We all expected that as we reopened we were going to see an uptick in cases. In some respects we shouldnt be surprised. I think the challenge for these states and cities, look at texas, the outbreak is centered around houston and austin, the challenge is they arent able to trace it back to a certain sets of sources or activities, so they cant take targeted measures. What we will have to do Going Forward is take targeted mitigation steps to try to contain these outbreaks by perhaps closing certain venues if you find that bars are the source of the spread, you might temporarily close bars or limit the number of people who can be in, foryou find certain large outdoor gatherings are the source of the spread, you might target those kinds of gatherings. We have not been able to trace them back to the source. We dont have all that trackandtrace work in place. Thats a challenge for Public Health officials. In the state of arizona. Thats largely left to local officials, to the counties. You might see the state start to take that over if they can start the trace these case, these surge in cases back to the sources. Brennan you also have large demonstrations and now trump political rallies that are being planned. You had dr. Birx from the task force tell gofs this week that shouting can actually offset the benefit of wearing mask. Thats obviously relevant to anyone going to a rally or to a demonstration. Do you agree with her . Well, look, i agree with her. Weve seen data now from the c. D. C. That shows choir groups and places where people were singing led to spread within confined spaces. Obviously the risk is diminished when youre outside versus indoors, but we know these large gatherings will lead to more spread. The spontaneous protests around the country will lead to spread, a large political rally will, as well, its an indoor space, a confined space. We need to be mindful. There are things to reduce the risk. Require people to wear a mask. With respect to the protests, its a shared responsibility, not just for people attending protests to wear masks, but also the Police Tactics which probably contributed to the spread, the spraying of tear gas, grouping people together, this is a shared responsibility to try to reduce the risk in these settings. Brennan you worked in the Trump Administration. I know you know how important to the president having his political rallies is. But youre a doctor. Is it advisable for him to be going to these places where there are upticks and holding rallies . Would you go . Well, look. I would certainly council against it. If i was giving advice to the administration on, this i would say they should withhold large political rallies right now. They also need to reed by example, and so encouraging people to social distance, encouraging people the wear masks, thats what we should be engaging in now. That political example is a powerful message to individual people all across the country. Were taking an awful lot of infection into the fall. We think we can sort of manage a 20,000 diagnosed infections a day. The virus wants to infect 50 to 60 of it. Thats the characteristics of this virus. Its not going to be content to infect 20,000 people per day. If we carry this into the fall, we will not be able to keep it as these kinds of levels. We need to be mindful of that. Brennan the c. D. C. Says masks should be worn at all times. They issued this with an eye toward some of these gatherings. You have changed your recommendation on the type of mask that people should be wearing. What do you advise . Well, look. We know the better the quality of the mask, the more protective it will be to the individual. A study in the lancet showed n95 masks are 96 effective. Surgical masks are only 67 effective. Health care workers without n95 masks have a higher rate of infection. Any mask is better than no mask. A good cloth mask will provide a level of protection, but not as much as an n95. In three, four months, we should be able to provide n95 masks to highrisk individuals. We need look at ways to get higherquality masks into the hands of senior citizen, people who are immune compromised or at higher risk of infection. States are stockpiling these masks and so is the federal government. California purchased 150 million. As the states fill their stockpiles and hospitals do, i think in three or four months, well be in a position to provide these to consumers. Right now consume kearse get them. Theyre expensive and harder to get, but theyre starting to become available in the commercial channel for consumers. Brennan an important change. Thank you very much, dr. Got leak. Well be right back. Doing their best to keep our nation going, while keeping us safe. Weve given masks to all our people and were helping our customers practice social distancing in stores. Weve implemented shorter hours, so we can sanitize our stores from top to bottom while also restocking our products. But if anything, these days have reminded us why we do what we do. Because despite everything thats changed, one thing hasnt, and thats our devotion to you and our communities. Were working together, instore and online, through pickup and delivery, to make sure you can still get the essentials you need. And as we move forward, know that our First Priority will always be to keep you and our associates safe. Will always be to keep you and our ass music safe. When this crisis is dongoing to be over and we dont know exactly when the stock market will reach its bottom, weve got to be prepared for this to last a long time. If you assume that youre out of work for nine months but you end up only being out of work for. Killer attitude. Nevor hydration. Neutrogena® hydro boost. The 1 hyaluronic acid moisturizer delivers 2x the hydration for supple, bouncy skin. Neutrogena®. Brennan last week french chairman Jerome Powell warned that the country and the world was experiencing the biggest economic shock in living memory. He predicted lingering high unemployment and that a significant number of americans wont go back to their old jobs. Robert kaplan is head of the Dallas Federal Reserve, one of the 12 banks that make up that system. Good morning to you. Good morning, margaret. Brennan houston is a hot spot, as we just heard. Saturday marks texas highest covid hospitalization rate since this pandemic began. The governor is continuing to reopen businesses. Elsewhere in the west, out in arizona, also seeing some hot spots flare up. Governor is not requiring people to wear a mask. As an economist, what do you make of these policy choices. Is it going to impact the economic rebound . Yes, so we knew as parted of the reopening that we would get more cases. The thing were watching is are there are so many cases that theres a risk of overwhelming the Health Care System . Were not seeing that at all here. I think what you point out is the Health Care Response at this point is as important as fiscal or monetary policy, and in particular its critical based on my conversations with epidemiologists that people widely wear masks, that we have good testing and contact tracing, and i think the extend we do that well will determine how quickly we recover. Well grow faster if we do those things well, and right now its relatively uneven. So that is false choice. The dichotomy between reopening and being able to follow these policy prescriptions. I think thats an important point you made. Thats right. That is exactly what im saying. Do you still believe that the National Unemployment rate will kick up to 20 . Because we have seen this change in the past few weeks. No, were on our way down right now, so theres some dispute about some of the data, but lets say the National Unemployment rate right now, if you did it accurately, we think its in the midteens. The other measures suggest theres even more slack. Were going to get positive job growth in june, july, and from here. The issue we have and i think the chairman talked about a few days ago is even with that growth, were going to end the year with an elevated unemployment rate. And the Service Sector comes back and people reengage, were still going to have an elevated level of unemployment, maybe as high based on my forecast of 8 or more, and it means that some people wont be able to go back to their old jobs and will have to find new jobs. And this is why skill training, helping people find new jobs is going to be also a big part of this effort. Brennan if congress doesnt renew provisions like the federal moratorium on evictions, if they dont include the 600 boost to unemployment, when it all expires in july, what will be the impact . So fiscal policy and we said this, is going to be very important from here. Monetary policy as a key role to play. Were doing everything we can, but we dont make grants at the fed. Its going to take continued i think Unemployment Benefits now. They might be restructured to create more incentives for people to go back to work. That will make sense. I think benefits at the state and local government. Fiscal policy from here will be a critical element of the recovery. Brennan by that youre telling congress that they have to do some work here. I want to im being careful as a central banker not to tell the fiscal authorities what to do, but i would say fiscal policy is going to be critical from here brennan i know why youre using the language you rfnlg i was trying to help the audience understand. One of your regional fed president s from atlanta rafael bastik wrote this week that systematic racism is a yolk that drags on the american this country has a moral and economic imperative to end these unjust and destructive practices. I wonder if you would agree and how you would quantify the cost of the racism hes talking about . I would agree. Going into the crisis, we had made a big point and have been working for years at the dallas fed but across our Federal Reserve system to help improve skills training, to improve educational attain. , because we strongly believe a more inclusive economy will lead to better growth. For years blacks and hispanics have had an elevated level of unemployment versus whites. That started to improve dramatically in the last few years. We have now taken a step back as a result of this crisis. But a more inclusive economy where everyone has opportunity will mean faster workforce growth, faster productivity growth, and well grow faster. So i think were right to focus on this and bore in on this. Its in the interest of the u. S. , the Fastest Growing demographic groups in this country are blacks and hispanics. If they dont participate equally, then were going to grow more slowly. Brennan and more work needs to be done on that front. By congress . No question. Brennan i think thats what youre saying. All right. Thank you very much Robert Kaplan of the dallas fed for giving us your insight. Well be back in a moment to talk about politician and president s with our own john dickerson. Yeah yyeah yeah hey, hey brennan we go now to a familiar face on this broadcast, former face the nation moderator and now 60 minutes john dickerson. Hes the author of a new book thats coming out on tuesday. Its called the hardest job in the world the american presidency. John, good to have you here. Great to be back, margaret. Great to see you. Brennan so you say the american presidency is in trouble. Its overburdened, misunderstood, and an almost impossible job to do. You started writing ths before the pandemic, before the economic crisis, and before the current racial strife that we are in. We seem to be beyond the cliche of this is a stress test on our democracy. How are you thinking of where we are . Well, thats exactly right. I mean, the book was finished before those three challenges, but they highlight essential point of the book, which is i went back and tried the look at the blueprint of the office. What is it at its most basic level . Its a job where big, highstakes things happen that are surprises to the president and where everybody, the president on down, needs to have created a system for dealing with those kinds of emergencies so they can be ready when the crisis hits. Because when the crisis hits, its too late to get riddy on the fly. A professor at harvard says the presidency is like an air bag. You may not think about it all the time, but when there is an emergency, you want it to work. Brennan so the excuse, well, no one could have seen this coming, youre saying the office is designed with that assumption, that you need to be prepared for this thing you dont see coming. Thats right. Thats why lbj referred to the office, pardon me, morning viewers as like being a jackass in hailstorm, because sometimes you just have to take it. And what that means is the job holds do you an extremely high standard. And the reason its important to take responsibility even for something that you didnt create is because that is everybodys priority. It tells everybody on your political team, you know what, spinning wont work. I have put my reputation on the line here. The buck stops with me. And you better all solve this problem, because my future is at stakes if we dont deliver results. And dont put any energy into spinning this. Thats why the office is so hard. Its why we treat it with such rev represents and seriousness because youre in a position where the buck stops with you. Brennan as you write in the book, President Trump has sort of changed that or challenged that assumption when he says things like, you know, no, i dont take responsibility for anything with this pandemic. He has. In fact, thats why he was elevatedded to office, because people looked at this office in which we ask a president to do too many and with tools that are either broken or which he wasnt giverren in the first place, a lot of what the president has been asked to do for the last several presidency is better housed in congress or with governors or with mayors, but we ask the president to do it because we run everything through the presidency, which is why i wanted to take a look at what the Office Actually should do. President trump was brought many by people who said, dismangtd l lots of it. Dont Pay Attention to these rules and norms some hes both someone to evaluate, but because of that behavior, hes an incredible measuring instrument for us to look at the office and say, do we want this . Do we not want that . What should reihan place it with . Brennan we are five months out from this election. I wonder, given all the stresses, how youre thinking of the actual process, because it feels like the institutions are undergoing some real crisis in confidence from the public, and just the functioning, the economickics of our democracy are being called into question, being able to vote in november. How are you thinking of this . Exactly. Lets start on voting in november. One key thing for a president for any national conversation, and we run them all through the presidency, which isnt always great, but if we look at the next election, this is a problem. Its on the horizon, its not yet in our lap. The administration and different agencies have been looking at the elections, because theyre worried acted them being interveed with by the russians or the chinese. Now we have another problem with covid19. This is a problem everybody can see coming. And thats a test of leadership. Can you focus on the things that are important but not urgent, because even though they may not be urgent today, election day is not today, they will be urgent soon enough. When they becowex urgent, you cant suddenly come up with a solution. This is, in addition to the other three tests we have the economy, covid, and americas racial profile at the moment we have this fourth test coming, which is can there be a peaceful transfer of power or a maintenance of power with the incumbent, which makes all people who are on the other side of the issue, which is to say those people who would not like donald trump be ereelected, make them feel like the hallmark of the election is safe. Peaceful transfer of powers with no Monkey Business is the big test facing this country. Brennan the president has talked about his generals and his relationship with the military. I remember in 2016 one thing president obama was faulted for was his frayed relationship with the military. This week we had this extraordinary moment where the president s top military adviser, mark mark milley, issun apology for wearing his fatigues and standing alongside the president for a photo op in Lafayette Square. Have you seen a fraying of the relationship on that front . Is that claim gone . Well, you know, what i focused on is the early lines in the president s speech at west point. He said he was there on behalf of the nation. And thats where the fraying takes place, because general milley was worried he was brought to Lafayette Square on behalf of the trump reelection campaign. The president has a duty to represent the entire nation, and the military takes that very seriously. Thats where some of the fraying has gone. Also, of course, the president has been very tough on some of his generals about they way they prosecuted some of americas recent wars. Brennan john dickerson, its an interesting read. Thank you so much. Great to have you here. Well be right back. Across many devices. Plus, you want the security trusted by some of the Largest Companies in the world. And thats why you trust us. The most Reliable Network in america. Brennan thats it for all of us today. Thank you for watching. Until next week for face the nation, im margaret brennan. Captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org advertisement for herman law. bright music welcome to todays program, im dr. Wendy walsh, and with me today is sex abuse attorney jeff herman, a nationally recognized trial lawyer and advocate for survivors of rape, sexual abuse, and sexual exploitation. Jeffs firm, herman law, is one of the nations most prominent personal injury law firms, specializing in the representation of victims of sexual abuse in civil cases. Jeff, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me, dr. Walsh. Based on your experience, who are the typical perpetrators . So, interesting, you know,