Ite houses dealings with ukraine, and yesterday the mmittees interviewed kurt volker, a special envoy envofor special envoy to ukraine. Also this week, President Trumpo reporters that china should open an investigation into biden and his son. Nior editor ron joining us npr from want d. C. Ron, let me begin with you. Lets talk about the niece president pence. Espect what do we know and where is this going . The house leaders have sent notice to the Vice President saying they want to see every development that might exist, that might pertain to meetings that mike pence might verified with the ukrainian president , perhaps with others in ukrae. They want to know everything that he knows about the intehanges between our government at the highest levels, that is to say President Trump, and the ukrainian esident with urespeto investigations of the bidens, and also with respect to what the president had been saying, we saw this in those envoy messages that you referred to a moment ago, e quid pro quo, which seems to be quite explicit asat in the minds of those envoys, those people in our state department delegation there in key everybody that the president was saying if you want this aid that congress has apprriated and everyone seems to be for, you have to give me something on this investigation. These were not then, i takeit, aguilar the president characterized his phone calls. Well, he called it a perfect phone call, some are calling these smoking texts, reference, of course, to a smoking gun. And what about michael atkinson, the i. D. For the intelligence community. Be testifying on friday. The idea is hes going to defend his handling of the whistleblowers complaint. That complaincame to him directly, and he checked it out to his own satisfaction, to be able to say he found it credible and urgent, and serious, and then passed it on to the director of national intelligence, his superior for further action. We know that because that individual, joseph mcgwire, mass appeared before the House Intelligence Committee last week. So this is further checking of s whistleblowers complaat is driving this whe process. Marisa, joseph mcgwire didnt find it necessarily all that credible, though, did he no, and i think this speak tox the different ways that different members of the administraon are trying to spin this versus the way the democrats view it. What i would say is that every single piece of evidence that has come out since adam schiff first stood up and madeanthe cryptic message about this hawhistleblower complain played into democratic hands, not republicans. The Text Messages are very ex applies it in terms of the concern being raised within the administration, and their sens that maybe the words quid pro quo was not used, but that there was basic lay sense that and so i think that whatever has to be taken in the context of everyting else, as we as the other state department officials, including mike back almost as hard as his it boss, President Trump. There seems somewhat of a sense now that maybe china is being offered a kind of quid pro quo that is President Trump, like he did with hillary clinton, when he said russia, if youre living, where are those mails,hes sort of saying to china if you have something on my political opponent here, let knme about it, and were supposed to be going trade war wi china. Ell, were supposed to be hearing from some people coming to the United States from china theft r next week, and the context came in thsame driveway conversation between the president and some of the people covering e him, in which he said i have tremendous power over these trade negotiations. The chinese really need to make e a deal, but mawe will and maybe we dont. We dont really have to. And then on to talk about china investigatinthe bidens. Here in california, were hearing from schiff and pe si about the president invite lating his oath of office. What do we make from that . Think this is the crux of why democrats are moving now l,with this scanwhy they did especially pelosi, with the russia investigation. They feel like this a clear cut case that they can make to the icamerican puthat essential by, you know, making this demand of ukraine, that that a violation of the oath of office, and i think its really in a lot of y as strategic talking point from a public lations standpoint, as much as a legal argument. Because i think they can make both of themhat somethin that people understand very upolitician, Kevin Mccarthy sai this vote shouldbe dropped theres not enough evidence tro sparency. Seems like not only has nancy pelosi dug in, but she pretty much said nonsense. Yeah, Kevin Mccarthy is very close to the president. He has called him my cousin at one point. He, you know, is doing what the white house would likein nding this letter, but maybe bad times on his part, the letter was bet g transmitted rias the president was making those comments in the white house th outsidwhite house aboue china digging in on the ukrainian stuff, and i think el gavei a very clear sort of opening to say, look, were not going to drop this. Its true,ou know, to kevin mccar theys point that in the last two impeachment st investigations, there was a vote taken to launch those investigations, but s what pelo saysdont need to, dont have to, im in control, which we often here from mitch machine coalle too, so thats well, these parties are about as partisan as they can possibly be. What does that mean in terms of the fact that were seeing the whistleblower having been identified as a democrat . Yeah, imean, i think that is something that the thtrump st admition and their allies are going to keep trying to hammer on. I think it ll be increasingly hard to make that point when we see mounting evidence like those Text Messages where those concerns were actually being called out ed by the Administration Officials themselves behind closed doors, but certainly this is what we saw during the llary clinto election, and the coogss with the state dertment and the various sort of coogss this president made, so i think that is their preliminary play, if we can make this appear partisan, we can take the heat off 067 ours and point it back at the demcrats. Lets lk about the role of Rudy Giuliani, the president s rsonal lawyer in this, which got thgs started with respect to ukraine, didnt he . To some degree degree, all no it was also started some degree by some people in the conner is vat everyone media g who had been writat joe biden had some exposure for some things he had said while me was Vice President with regard to a corruption investigation he ukraine. Now, whawas trying to do was get the corruption investigation to go forward, and get riutof a pros who blocking it. Suggest that somehow he was o trying to end the corruption probe. That was started some o. Time Rudy Giuliani has been part of reading that particul spterpretation. He has done it through the media. He has done it through sits with a number of our allies in always appearing onlythe president s personal lawyer. Now, its interesting that he is not part of ths government. He dt have a ve role in the government. But she conducting what appears very much though be our reign policy business as though he just as the president s so, personal lawyer, and theres me effort thats been made in the past by the russians to say that the ukrainians were responsible for the 2016 election interference, which all of our Intelligent Community has agreed was done by bythe russians. The russians say no, that was the ukrainians doing that, and they were framing us and trying to make it dilook like we it, and at this point, it appears that giuliani and to some degreet the presidhave been playing in that particulin interpretation. How is th affecting the Biden Campaign . It looks bad that he had a son who nchad no exper got on this board in ukraine, getting 50,000 a month, and e also tie to china, an investment firm. I mean, think ithats the problem for biden, is not that obviously theres been any foundation of wrongdoing, but just the appear i think every time his name gets brought up in the same se ence as corruption in the ukraine, and bidens campaign has other challenges well. He is lagging far behind bernie ndraising, but you have to in imagine thathe narrative around him sort of not being right for the job right now is something that as we get closer to the primary, and it might get a little mo heated among these democrats who have been pretty nice to each other so far, that they might really lean into. Think we eiare the front. Ts having a unified Kamala Harris was saying leave joe biden alone, but i dont think that that will hold as we get closer to the iowa caucus. On, its not as if you can suddenly map this out by previous impeachmen, even the charges broadcast against president nixon. Its like nothing weve ever seen before. Again, not norm. Its not normal largely because President Trumps presidency is quite different from his predecessors. Bill clinton represent reacted differy. Richard nixon reacted differently. I wasnt quite available for the Andrew Johnson impeachment in 18, but assume that all of these is a little bit different. Still, there are somerough guidelines in the constitution. We know that the house is supposed to go first web and the senate is supposed to have a formal trial of the houses charges. We know that the Supreme Court chief justice is supposed to preside, and we may see all of that unfold as weth did clinton, and as we would have if Richard Nixon had not resigned in the ace of th many thanks to both of you. Appreciate you being with us. Thanks, michael. On thursday, San Francisco District Attorney george ga announced his resignation to explore entering the d. A. Race in los angeles. Meanwhile, the race to elect a new District Attorney in San Francisco is a wide enop process with four prvying for t job. Voters in San Francisco will get to cast theiballots in that closely watched contest, as well as decide the fate six local ballot measures. Joining us now are two of those candidates, deputy district letorney nancy t um, and me begin nancy with you. With the resignation of gorge gascon, it brings up the ng question of what sort of job do you feel he did, and maybe where where is was that job in needof some serious rectifying, and what would you do to rectify we can look at the last 8 years in San Francisco and see what is happ ing on our streets isnt working. I think that george gas scon, when it came to the bred bread and butter ofprosecution ckwork he was g. We have in the highest profit crime rate in the nation, and the highest per capita crime rate in the state of california. So s think whoever coin next needs to be somebody who c enforcement issues and really ople of San Francisco have safer streets. Where do you stand on gascons record . Well, i actually fired last gascon for District Attorney, because i thought heavy had pu his preliminary ambition above the everyday wellbeing of San Franciscoens, and i think the news yesterday that he a abandoning his post to run for confirms though suspicions. I filed to run because hoff the high next the nation property crime rates that nancy mentioned. The fact he has not delivered justice for victims of olent crime or Sexual Assault, and the fact that the relationships between the communlatis color and Law Enforcement is as bad as it haever en, and he has managed to alienate both of those communities. What im really concerned about now is what californians seem to be concerned abou the Public Policy institute of california says the biggest concern is homelessness, and that ties in with ugabuse and with Mental Illness. So lets talk to you, lee, first about. What you envision in terms of homelessness and solving the ob m. Im the only candidate that has been laser d focuon homeless conditions and mental hilt from the beginning. My goal is to take juvenile haul ask turn that in a Mental Health center. Its one thing to say that those battling mental iless shouldnt be in our county jails or courtrooms, but they shouldnt be on our streets either. We need a robust Mental Health system for them to get the hern they need, and Juvenile Hall is a perfect opportunity to do that. Julie, lets go to you. I think i take very practicing thattic approach to these issues on San Francisco streets. One of them is a as District Attorney, can you be an advocate for certai y policy positionand i definitely want to make here is that we push a policy position that address homelessness, drug addiction, and Mental Health issues before homelessness occurs. Before people become involved in the criminal justice syem, we need to take an approach that is thoughtful about what pps in terms of where they are where we have an opportunity to palab te get peo make sure there is accountability for people who actually harm other people, even fit due to Mental Illness or drug addiction. Lets have some accountability. Lets keep our people safer on the streets, and make sure that San Franciscoens have a wa forward,hao that we a city that is safe for everybody. They both have large visions, and large visions are t going to a lot in revenue. What do you have to say, nancy, about particularly budgetary issues, rtd how you can get the kind of funds youre going to need. I think we need be lean about how approach the d. A. s office going forward. Fright w there are staffing issues and ncies, so in order to backfill them, think we need to take that approach first web and then see how we can streamline the District Attorneys officemoto make efficiencies with the attorneys that we have. I know there are ways we can nstituents of San Francisco, and through safety worst expanding the budget, and then ill take a look in my administration where we need to have more funding and and the bo d of supervisor are for that. What about the relationship, lee, that you can forge with the board of supervisorthand mayor. How important and central is that . Its critical. Venile Probation Commission e and so i oversaw a 42 etmillio buand a 240 person city department. The board of supervisors and h the mayor to iron out that budget. Im also the only candidate in this race who is botpra ecutor and manaec as team o. Prosecutors on a daytoday basis at the a. G. s of, adso i to step in on day tone. Use the recourses and attorney jess in the office right now in a better way. Lets dont expand the budget. Theres hings like this dmv Grant Program at the state level that provides tching dollars to cities and counties wato tackle property crime. E so ive talked about creating afive American Auto Burglary Task force to make sure were able go after the organized rings breaking back into cars. That can be funded by this dmv i prograout raising our budget at all. Of course talking about Violent Crime, as well. Absolutely. The juvenile justice system, where everything is really fosed on rehab days, and we be have successful, focusing on their underlying root causes, whether its menta healthish yu, drugs, gang, economic opportuni. I want to take that and expand to the adult system, gi ing with transitional age youth, 18 to 24 years old, and show at that rehab dative model is the best way to go, in both for theirest and the interest of the general public. We can expand it to the entire adult system then. Nancy, youve been talking about Restorative Justice. Theres a danger there, isnt there, that maybe there would be more lawless people on the s streets . Thwhat one often hears. Right, and i think Restorative Justice has a place in our criminal jusce system. We employ it right now in neighborhood courts and nonViolent Crimes. I think that is a good spacod spore it. In terms ofdetermining sentences, though, think, especially in Violent Crime cases, is not necessarily where we want tohave the end all be all of Restorative Justice, but atis to have conversaion between victims of crime, and a important. Its important to facilitate it. But that should not be the final determining faor on how a person is sentenced in my view. What about use of force . Use of fo ae i think important question with respect to Law Enforcement. We have changed the use of force laws in california, and it think it will be interesting to see how etthe courts inter it. The legislation in itself doesnt necessarily defiselfall of the terms, so it will be subject to interpretation. The concern is maybe too many people will be out of jail as a result. I think its going to be an enforcement chalwenge, and oulaws in a way that we are ur flexible, and we are adaptive, and i think thats one of the ngbig short coof prop 47 is that San Francisco failed to adapt to the change in connection the law in a ways Public Safety d property. Me go to you on this lee. Yeah, for use of force, talking about policability. The next District Attorney s to be able to walk and choo gum prepare hold Law Enforcement aclaw enble when they engage in misconduct, and im committed to doing that, Holding Town Hall to explain my charging decision. But on the others 99 of case that dont involve official misconduct, we have possibl able to work together. On turder cases, on the Sexual Assault mecase, and the invasions, and i think its that balance that has earn me the support of over 150 groups inincludg our francisco. S here in san tyou both, and run hard. This week, the Public Policy institute of california released a new poll reflecting the mood of voters and their top concerns. Homele conditions and jobs wereited most often as the most important issues affecting the state. Also, there was bad news for democratic president ial candidate and california senator Kamala Harris whose support among likely voters in state has slipped tojust 8 . And for the First Time Since 2015, more than half lyof li voters think the state is joining us now is the ceo and. President of the Public Policy institute of california, mark. Mark, good to , mahave you ths. Good to be here. Why this optimism going south, and, and i dont mean to los angeles . 54 of likely voters say that e state is headedin the wrong direction, and 54 te offering likely also say that they feel that the economy is going to have bad times over the next 12 months. So i think a combination of political turmoil,and Economic Uncertainty really catching up with people, and theyre very nervous right now. And the biggest problem still is homelessness and jobs. The first time ev in the 20 years that weve been doing polling wesaw homelessness as tied now with jobs. I not unual see jobs but homeless, jobs, housing costs, and immigration were the top issues in our poll. First time ever for homelessness. Iwas struck by the fact that 2 3 of those you spoke to want stronger fun laws. Yes, twothirds want stronger gun laws, and i was struck by the fact that 2 3 said they are worried about the pocket of mass shoot enofgy the area in which they live. Now, this poll was taken after r the mass shooting and tells you the extent to which there is fear now, and theres a desire to do something about gun laws. You also did a president ial poll as i mentioned in th introduction, and what does it mine that Kamala Harris has slipped much . Well, you know, in our poll, we found that steople said that they are very closely is kind of unusual for this early, and most peop also said that they think that the debates are very important in ho decidingto vote for in this president ial election. In our first poll, when we saw arkamalas leading all other candidates, this was right after a very strong performae in the first debate. This last poll was taken after the third debate, and i guess the second and third debate performances, other candidates have performed more strongly than she has. Theres a good deep of kept inch about polls, and i want tod ut your thoughts about this and the methody that you use that gives you more fact in what youre doing. So we have stuck with the random digit dial telephone, using cellphone andline, and live telephone intewers, which the reason that we us that methodology is because the National Polls still consider that socalled high quality polling. All polling is very difficult today, because its hardt reach people. But over time, the accuracy has been better with the live in telephonrview, so weve stuck with that. So how does this turn into policy . Whatind of impactdoes it have on the citizenry . Well, i think at the fact that voters in this state are very worried about a number of issues, a number of issues th arent being revolving solved by either federal government or State Government at this point, means that they are atlonding f ates for a president who have a plan. And who have who can create some hope and then at the local level, the fact that people are getting more nervous about the economy makes it more difficulto for measures and tax measures next year. We also saw this in our poll with week support both for the School Bond Measure in march, as well as the measure to change property totax laws in t state,provide more funding for schools. Yeah, i was struck by that, more funding, desire for more funding for school construction, and al for greater action on climate change. Im not surely w th translates. Well, the support for climate change, i think, is something that we have seen in all of our polls, and that, a lot of that, is related to the fact that many people are now worried about natural disasters, particularly fire in our state. And as people have experienced natural disasters that are related to climate change, they want more actions from State Government. What about democrats, shouldt they be worried as a result of your polling . Well, we are solidly a blue state. Absolutely solidly blue, yeah. A republican hasnt won in a statewide race since 2006, and n that would have been back to arnold schwarzenegger. Well, in people unare ppy and feeling pessimistic, maybe there could be issuing, huh . Well, if youre a democrat who is an incumbent, where there coul to democrats running against each other with our system, think those are the ones that should be wired, the one was are incumbents and the ones in the legislature right now, because both the congress and e the stlegislature are getting low ratings. The congress ,much lower, but 51 said that theyre not happy with e state legislature today. And how does that translate . What areunthey ppy about . Ppproblems that arent being that weve cited . Are there others that we need to cover here . Well, i think that healthcare cost is also a great concern for californians, and i think that also for many californians, the fear of deportation for due to increased federal enforcement. We found 4 out of 10 peoplein oupoll, and about half of come a cans said they are r afraid that someone they know is going to be deported. So that includes election infederal government. Ty. Thats rig do you get action from th legislatures in sacramento . Oh, they Pay Attention. Of course their Approval Rating is what they look at the most, but they know ere the checks are coming from. Thats right. They Pay Attention to the fact that not only what the voters think, but what the people who they represes think. So thae of the reasons that in our odmeogy we stayed with interviewing all adults, not just the likely voters. What it brought the independent voters, or those undecided. What did you find . Most of osare leaning democratic. Many of them want to participate in the primary. Most of them are very unhappy b with donald trum they today and to be more fiscally conservative and thats something that those democrats, and especially those rubbing for office, need to take into account. Donald trumps Approval Rating has been inhas the 30 to 35 ra since hes been elected. It hasnt changed. It hasnt budged, even over the last ekfew in our polling, but there is still very strong opposition to dold trump, and a to the policies that he has s proposing. Thankyou so much for joining us. Appreciate it. Thank you. That will do it for us. As always, you can find more of our coverage at kqed. Org newsroom. Thank you for joining us. Robert President Trumps use of power ignites theea iment debate. President trump theyve been trying to impeach me from the ey i got elected. Robert President Trump remains defiant and unapologetic, amid mounting scrutf his nistrations pressuring of foreign leaders, from ukraine to china, to investigate political rivals. President trump china should start an investigation into the binens because what hap in china isust about as bad as what happened with with ukraine. So i would say that president zelensky, if it were me, i would recommend that they start an a investigation into the bidens. Robert he attacksis the eblower and congress. President trump this country has to find out who thaterson wa because that persons a
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