Transcripts For LINKTV Democracy Now 20240713

Third president ial impeachment trial in United States history. We will get the latest. Then to honduras, where at least 15 women have been murdered in the first 14 days of this year. We will speak with the daughter of honduran indigenous environmental leader Berta Caceres, who was shot dead nearly four years ago. Men were sentenced for her seven murder. First of all, this is a late conviction. It has been almost four years of seeking justice. It is the product of a rather difficult and painful process that has been putting as as victims indirect dispute with the murderers. Amy then we look at a translation crisis at the border. For migrants who speak mayan languages, a Grassroots Group of interpreters is often their only hope for receiving asylum. All that and more, coming up. Welcome to democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. For just the third time in u. S. History, the senate has opened an impeachment trial to determine if a sitting president should be removed from office. On thursday, Supreme Court chief Justice John Roberts swore in senators who will serve as jurors when the trial officially begins on tuesday. Roberts called on the lawmakers to render impartial justice, although Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell has already said he is not an impartial juror. Mcconnell is facing increasing pressure to call witnesses during the trial, as new information contntinues to emere about President Trumps effort to pressure ukraine to investigate his political rival, joe biden, ahehead of this yeas president ial election. On thursday, the Nonpartisan Government Accountability Office said the white houses office of management and budget broke the law by withholding the nearly 400 million in aid to ukraine, which had already been allocated by congress. Also on thursday, fbi agents visited the home and business of connecticut congressional candidate robert hyde, who has been thrust into the center of the impeachment saga after newly revealed messages showed hyde communicating with former giuliani associate lev parnas about surveilling thenu. S. Ambassador to ukraine marie yovanovitch. In one message, hyde wrote they are willing to help if we you would like a price. Guess you can do anything in the ukraine with money. Hyde denies he was offering to harm or assassinate the ambassador, who was later told by state Department Officials she had to leave the country immediately. Ukrainian officials have opened a criminal investigation into the potential surveillance. Before the u. S. Has announced a similar investigation. Well have more on the impeachment trial after headlines. The pentagon now says 11 u. S. Troops were injured in the Iranian Missile strikes on two Iraqi Military bases last week contradicting President Trumps earlier claims that no u. S. Troops were harmed. Iran launched the strikes as retaliation for the United States assassination of qassem soleimani. Iran warned iraq about its retaliatory military strikes ahead of time. Despite these advance warnings, the pentagon says 11 injured 11 troops were transported to military hospipitals in germany and kuwait and treated for concussion symptoms. The senate has voted to approve the United Statesmexicocanada agreement, the replacement for nafta, or the 1994 north American Free trade agreement. Thursdays 89 to 10 vote means the legislation now heads to trumps desk, where hes expected to sign it. Among those who voted against the trade deal was vermont senator bernie sanders, who was the only current 2020 democratic president ial candidate to oppose the deal. He says it does not do enough to combat climate change. S in ther candidate senate also ported the deal. The senates approval of the usmca comes only one day after trump signed a separate trade deal with china. A new bloomberg Analysis Shows that six banks jpmorgan chase, bank of america, citigroup, wells fargo, goldman sachs, and Morgan Stanley avoided paying a combined total of 18 billion worth of taxes last year as a result of President Trumps tax cuts. This is trump speaking earlier this week. Pres. Trump j. P. Morgan chase, they Just Announced earnings and they were incredible. Where are you . They were very substantial. Thank you, mr. Presidident, at least . , a lot of bankers look very good. Amy the Treasury Department has opened an investigation into President Trumps tax cuts. In guatemala, new right wing presesident alejandro giammattti was sworn in on tuesday asas protesters took to the streets to demand former president Jimmy Morales be arrested for corruption. Giammattei is a member of the consnservative party vamos a ane former head of guatemalas prison system. Protesters rushed morales with insults and one through an egg in his face. Meanwhile, hundreds of Asylum Seekers were apprehended in guatemala by u. S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and local police. The Asylum Seekers were part of a Migrant Caravan that had departed honduras earlier this week, headed to the United States. Deported Immigration Rights leader Jean Montrevil has sued the u. S. Government arguing he was targeted for deportation because of his political speech, in violation of his First Amendment rights. Montrevil is Founding Member of the new Sanctuary Coalition of new york city, an immigrant rights group. He was deported to haiti in 2018 after years of organizing. Meanwhile, salvadoran Asylum Seeker has sued the federal government and the private Prison Corporation corecivic over a miscarriage she suffered in january 2018 while detained at an immigration jail in otay mesa, california. Ice agents detained rubia morales in a cold cell, without proper medical attenention, even though she pleaded ford. Days later she suffered a miscarriage. The fbi has arrested three suspected members of a neonazi group ahead of a planned progun rarally in richmond, v virginian monday thats Martin Luther king day. White supremacists and armed militia members are planning to descend on richmond to protest the virginia legislatures proposed restrictions on gun purchases. Virginias Governor Ralph Northam has declared a state of emergency in virirginia and temporarily banned weapons from the grounds of t the state capitol. The florida Supreme Court has ruled in favoror of a laww requiring people with h felony convictions to pay all fines related to their sentences before they can register to vote. The law is an effort to roll back the Voting Rights of the 1. 4 Million People who were reenfranchised in 2018 after voters narrowly approved the historic ballot measure, amendment 4. And in cambridge, massachusetts, dozens of Harvard Law School students disrupted a job recruiting event for paul weiss, the law firm that is representing exxonmobil in lawsuits over the oil giants efforts to deceive shareholders and the public about fossil fuels role in fueling the Climate Crisis. And those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. For just the third time in history, the u. S. Senate has opened a trial to determine if a sitting president should be removed from office. The senate trial comes a month after the house impeached President Trump for pressuring ukraine to investigate his political rival joe biden. On thursday, congressman adam schiff, one of seven house impeachment managers, addressed the senate. Donald j. Trump has abused the powers of the presidency and that using the powers of his high office, President Trump solicited the interference of a foreign government, ukraine, and the 2020 United States president ial election. President trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated he will remain a threat to the constitution if allowed to remain in office. And has acted in a matter grossly incompatible with selfgovernment governance and the rule of law. Removal from office in disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honoror, trust, or profit under the United States. Amy Supreme Court chief Justice John Roberts will preside over the impeachment trial in the senate. Later swore in senators who will serve as jurors when the trial officially begins on tuesday. At this time, i will administer the oath to all senators in the chamber in conformance with article one, section three, clause six of the constitution and the Senate Impeachment rules. Will all senators please stand or remain standing and raise the right hand . Do you solemnly swear that in all things pertaining to the trial of the impeachment of donald john trump, president of the United States, now pending, you will do impartial justice according to the constitution and laws so help you god . We do. Amy after that, each senator stepped up and signed the oath book. While the impeachment trial is beginning in the senate, more information is coming to light about the actions of President Trump and his associates. On thursday, the noNonpartisan Government Accountability Office said the White House Office of management and budget violated federal law by withholding 400 million in aid money to ukraine even though the funds had been allocated by congress. The gao wrote faithful execution of the law does not permit the president to substitute his own policy priorities for those that congress has enacted into law. Meanwhile, pressure is growing on Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell to allow witnesses to testify during the senate trial. On thursday, republican senator Susan Collins of maine said it is likely she would support a motion to call witnesses at that just as she did in the president clintons impeachment 1999 trial. One potential witness is lev parnas, a sovietborn businessman and former associate of trumps lawyer, rudy giuliani, who said this week in a series of interviews the president was fully aware of his efforts to pressure ukraine to investigate joe biden. He is under federal indictment. To talk more about the impeachment trial, we go to massachusetts to speak with attorney john bonifaz, cofounder and president of free speech for people, and coauthor of the constitution demands it the case for the impeachment of donald trump. John, you have been calling for this for several years. Talk about the significance of what we have witnessed over the past few days, the whole ceremony about the Senate Impeachment trial, and what is about to happen. Thank you, amy, for having me. This is a serious moment for our nation, our democracy and constitution are on the line. What we have seen over the past few days is this is a very solemn occasion. The senate must now take up these serious charges against this president issued by the house of representatives, and they must conduct a fall and fair trial. In the very fact you have the chief justice of the United States who only presides over the senate for impeachment trial in the third time in our history this is happening, both take the oath to do impartial justice but then also administer that oath for every United States senator and then each one signs the oath book, they all taken a separate when they assumed the office at the United States senate to defend and protect our constitution. And so each and every senator now must comply with that oath and conduct a full and fair trial, hearing witnesses, demanding the documents, and not engaging in a coverup that this president has engaged in so to try to protect himself and his associates. About what he is on trial for and explain what it means if he were found guilty. Does that mean automatic removal from office . The president is on trial for abuse of power and abuse of the public trust. These are precisely the kinds of charges the framers envisioned when they placed the impeachment clause in the constitution crimes against the state. And these abuses of power come out at the ukraine scandal, where this president illegally solicited foreign assistance from the Ukrainian Government to assist his reelection campaign. And he engaged in extortion and bribery in the process. Misusing nearly 400 million of u. S. Funds to try to hold back those funds from the Ukrainian Government to get what he wanted which was the announcement of an investigation against a political rival, joe biden, and his son hunter biden. This is the kind of misuse of the office that the framers feared. In the idea that we would have a president who would so engage and that kind of abuse of office in violation of the oath of office to defendant protect the constitution, means he must face this trial. The house was right to issue these articles of impeachment. Youre right, amy, we have been calling for accountability for this president s abuses of power is the moment he took the oath of office, violating the foreign and domestic emoluments clauses and treating the oval office as a profitmaking enterprise at the public expense. He repeatedly has abused his power since that time. I think what we now see is a president who must face a trial. Yes, if he is removed by the senate, there is no further appeal. The senate has the sole power to engage in this impeachment trial and removal, and he will be removed from office if the senate votes to convict. Amy lets talk about the issue of witnesses. It looks like up to five or public in senators republican senators are weighing whether to call for witnesses. What exactly does this mean . Trialwe know, every requires witness testimony. What the house has done is effectively indictment against the president and that indictment now must be heard in the United States senate was a full and fair trial. And these witnesses must be brought forward. In the junction impeachment johnson impeachment trial, there were 41 witnesses that were heard. D. Three were heard in the clinton impeachment trial, but than many other witnesses had been deposed during the can start investigation. Here what we have is a Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell claiming there shall be no witnesses, that somehow we dont need any evevidence to be heardn the u. S. Senate. But what appears to have happened the past several days is that a numbeber of republican senators are breakaking away frm Mitch Mcconnell. We will see when the vote finally occurs on this stand, but if 51 senators which would be at least four republican senators joining the 47 Democratic Senators vote to have witnesses, then there will be witnesses. And some of these witnesses have yet to come forward because they have been part of this coverup this president has required. Mick mulvaney, the chief off staff for the white house, john bolton, the National Security former National Security visor, lev parnas, the associate who has now come forward talking about how the president knew all about this scheme. So these witnesses need to be brought forward, as well as the documents that the white house has withheld under the president s direction. The senators cannot be complicit in this coverup. Amy lets go to lev parnas, the soviet born businessman, now under federall indictmenent speaking t to msnbcs rachel maddow. They would agree and t then they wouldld walk it back. They would annnnounce something giulianiruption,n, but blew hisis lid on that thihing. Hats s not what we discussed. About joe bididen, hunter biden, varese my. He said the name . Always. Amy lev parnas emphatically says the president knew and was in conversations with the president about this but he is under federal indictment. If nancy pelosi house speaker, had not held off on handing over the articles of impeachment, would this have been included . What about people like republican senator Susan Collins saying, this all should have been dealt with in the house, wewere not going to deal w with this . First we know senator Mitch Mcconnell said right at the time the house voted on the articles ofof impeachment in december tht he was working directly with the white house in coordination, fore, and that he was there going to push for quick dismissal of these charges. Speaker pelosi was correct to hold back those articles until there was some understanding of what could happen most and once some of the senators came forward and said they would like to hear from witnesses, then it became clear that senator mcconnell would not necessarily be able to control these proceedings entirely and get a quick dismissal. He has already now said, in fact, there is not an appetite for quick dismissal in the Senate Despite some senators trying to advocate for that. So i do think we are going to hear opening argument next week, and then there will be this crucial vote on whether there are witnesses. But as for senator collins claim, it is completely what we have from the house is in indictment, but ththat does s nt mean that further witnesses that come forward, for the documents that come forward, shall not be heard by the United States senate. This is directly related to the oath she and every other senator has taken to do impartial justice. They must be complicit with this cocoverup and with the criminal uprise enterprise operating out of the oval office. They must conduct themselves according to that oath. Amy john bonifaz is the cofounder and president of free speech for people, and coauthor of the constitution demands it the cacase for the impeachment f donald trump. When we come back, we turn to honduras wherere at least 15 w n have been murdered in the first two weeks of this year. We will look at the case of Berta Caceres and admin who have been imprisonened for her m mur. Stay with us. [music break] amy this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. As we turn to honduras for a new by the violence observatory at the Honduran National Autonomous University says that at least 15 women have been murdered in the first 14 days of this year. Violence against women, lgbtq people, indigenous leaders, and environmental activists has skyrocketed in honduras under the u. S. Backed government of president juan orlando hernandez. The report comes nearly four years since honduran indigenous environmental activist Berta Caceres was shot dead inside her home in la esperanza, honduras by hired hit men. Last month in the capital of tegucigalpa, seven men were sentenced to up to 50 years in prison for her killing. At the time of her assassination, caceres had been fighting the construction of a major hydroelectric dam on the gualcarque river on sacred lenca land in southwestern honduras. Berta caceres was assassinated in march 2016. In november 2018, a court ruled her killing was ordered by executives of the Honduran Company behind the Agua Zarca Dam, known as desa, who hired the convicted hit men to carry out the killing. At least two of the men involved in the murder were trained by u. S. Military forces. Berta caceres assassination came a year after she won the Goldman Environmental Prize for her work protecting indigenous communities and for her Environmental Justice campaign against the massive dam. This is Berta Caceres speaking in 2015. In our worldviews, we are beings who come from the earth, from the water, and from corn. People are ancestral guardians, in turn protected by the spirits of young girls who teach as that giving our lives in various ways for the protection of the rivers is giving our lives for the wellbeieing of humanity and of this planet. Amy that was Berta Caceres giving her acceptance speech at the 2015 Goldman Environmental Prize ceremony. Ago, iust a few weeks had a chance to sit down with one of her daughters laura , zuniga caceres, in madrid, spain, where she was receiving a human rights award. I dont usually get to see her. She lives in the same town where her mother was murdered. I began by asking her about whether she felt the recent sentencing of her mothers assassins had served justice. A well, first of all, this is late conviction. It has been almost four years of seeking justice. It is the product of a rather difficult and painful process that has been putting us as victims in direct dispute with the murders in an aggressive state. And they produce the minimum consequences that the state could have given. We continue talking about my moms intellectual killers and that those who were captured and convicted were the weakest people within the criminal structure that attacked my mom. Amy can you tell us what happened and who you believe is responsible for her death including the men who actually pulled the trigger but right on up to who you believe ordered per murder . My mom was a fighter dedefending ththe lenca indigens territory in southwesternn honduras. She was also defending t the terrrritory against t the concen ofof our rivers specificalal, ththere was a very important struggle in the fence of the rivever which h is a sacred rivr for the l lenca people. What this struggle involves i is the e plans to b build a dam. The e Agua Zarca Dam being built by desa, who is most imporortant partner is one family. This company is one we have held responsible and therere is evena tribunal that has that i is respsponsible for the murdrder y mother. So we understanand the partners that this company are those who participated in the murder of my mom. On top of ththat, after an ininvestigatioion, we haveve cod evidence t that connects this family with the murder of my mother. So they are the ones that are still missing. Today, there are seven men who are convicted who are associated with the responsibility of the physical murder of my mother. Those are the people e who wewee the gunmen who participated by shooting my mother. Within those seven men who were convicted, there are two people closely linked to this company. One of them is the companys former security chief and the other is the environmental manager. Because thereied are military elements there, too. There is one more person who is being tried was the general manager of the company desa, a military member who participated in the intelligence of the state and who applied that knowledge to persecute and assemble the murder of my mom and other defenders of the river. Amy what is the evidence you have that the family that owns the dam were directly involved . And was that evidence presented at trial . Collected 33ave previous threats that were made against my mother. Most of the threats work linked to desa right before the murder of my mother. In addition to this, based on information the Public Ministry provided to us, we managed to see chance and communications between members of the company with their employees, in which they talk about attacks against copin, as well as my mothers work and activism and the company. In addition to that, theres also a chat that directly links the general manager of desa with the g gunmen, and whihich my mor smarter is coordinated. My mother smarters coordinator. Their test showing how the general manager of desa gives information to family members. I think they are their involvement is very evident and it illustrates a littltle how ts Network Functions with military behaviors. Talk about the u. S. Connection here. Seven men were convicted and sentenced for your mother smarter. Two of those men, one was a arme former Army Lieutenant trained by the United States and anotother also trained b by the United States. U. S. Train military men provided logogistical support d a gun in the plot to kill caceres. Can you talk about what you know about the u. S. Connection . I believe what we have seen since the coup is how extractive is him as massively entered into our country. Theew that extractivism, military are able to gain control of these extractive companies. Since the coup, they become entrepreneurs and we also witnessed how the government of the united date is complicit and allows the installation of this coup. Then we see how the United States government continues toto support government in honduras, which are highly obsessive and violators of human rights. The United States supports these governments, particularly in the area of militarization. At the time of my mothers murder, one of the things that caught our attentionon is that t was said that members of the fbi were investigating her killing which the u. S. Embassy never clarified, even though it was not true. And the u. S. Embassy allow the honduran state to create that false narrative. But the most obvious evidence about t how soldiers are trained by the u. S. Government to kill land and water defenders is the training that both chavez and castille received from the United States and aided them in carrying out the murder of my mother. The United States government has also never got funding for the government of hernandez, which is a dictatorship that continues to kill and generate impunity on my mothers case and others. Amy can you talk about the independent investigation that was done, who is involved with it . What you think further needs to happen at this point . Since the beginning on the first day after my mom was murdered, we demanded for an International Commission to investigate her killing because we already knew the state have been of this murder. An Investigation Team was offered by the Interamerican Commission on human rights, but the state did not allow it. Then we called on International Jurists with experience in cases of genocide, disappearances, and other state crimes that could participate and do in an independent investigation. People from guatemala, the United States, the netherlands were involved in this commission. With the information provided by the public prosecutors office, the findings were systemic and this report came out more than yearandahalf ago sanitized and his report came out more than yearandahalf ago. It became known the top prosecutors already had evidence to prosecute more people involved in my mothers murder but had not done so. What is left for us to really have justice . I think there are at least two things. The first is that capture and prosecution and condemnation of the intellectual authors of my mothers murder. And the second, which is very important, is the cancellation of the river concession. Because to this day, even after the murder of my mother and after the murder of more than six people, the company desa owns the river meaning it has the power to do whatever it wants with that river. It is outrageous. There a blatant impunity in this case, therefore, ongoing persecution against a lot of land and water defenders in honduras. But you start with the process of justice, i think it is those two crucial points. Amy can you put your mothers murder into a larger context . What she was trying to accomplish in honduras and what your family, what you as a theerer of copin, environmental group, what youre trying to do right now . What should people understand about the struggle . Well, i believe one of the things to understand about honduras is we are existing within a coup in a highly reprpressive and militarized dictatorship. Has beenontext, copopin fighting since 1992. My mom was coordinator for this organization. What they continue to seek is to protect the Natural Resources that the lenca Indigenous People have protected for more than 500 years. Their fight is also protecting the lives of the people who are there on their land. We work with women, children, culture from a plural vision that proposes other forms of life that have nothing to o do with the distraction of this planet. I believe that strengthening the good things of the lenca people and being able to articulate with other communities as struggles for justice, it is a little bit of the work by mom was doing. And what many people have been doing here. Copin is in the southwestern part of hundreds and there are many other communities that are participating in this struggle. Fighting to build a new vision for the world. My moms proposal had to do with funders,undation freedom of thought, the right to be happy. For that, my mom was murdered. This murder also tried to end the organization copin. We are made up of many, many people who continue to fight, putting our bodies in the front line. And what the mururder of my mom marked, was the need to really build a new society. Amy youre here in madririd. The presidenent of h honduras is here i in madrid, o one orlando hernandez. He just tweeted when he arrived, were not going to madrid to ask her anything. We are demanding what is just most of hundreds is one of the three most effective countries in the world affected countries in the world by climate change. What do you have to say to the president of honduras . I i think it is very cynicalf him to say that, especially when he has been complicit in the dedestruction of our country and subjecting our people to great violence. It is true the honduran people are experiencing grave consequences for the destruction of the planet. But hernandez has used state funds to invest in the militari. Ation of our country that is why we are seeing these murders, seeing people imprison. Were living in a situation in which life is compromise. And for a letter hernandez to report the discourse of us who are putttting our bobodies at r, generates a lot of indignation, especially since he has been one of the people who has insured impunity in the murder of my mom. Women payis the price in particular in the fight for Climate Justice . Just like the land in our territory is violated and destroyed, so are our bodies. We know we are at risk. We know they kill us, that they raped us, that they attack our families. I think it also has a lot to do , with history. It is women who safeguard history. And the way m managg nanatul sources. And when we are displaced o violedgainst, at socia bric is so brokeandost. When these threats a murders ppen, its also t life. Ion o future i think it also changes the direction of how we are imagining our future. Because we have to face and resist a very, very aggressisive model destroying us. But i also believe it is women who are carrying out resistance, leadership. My moms leadership is just one story. But when we go to other communities, we find greaeat won leaders. And that also has to deal with generating alliances that allow us to strengthen ourselves. Amy talk about how the Climate Crisis affects honduras. The way people understand honduras in the United States who are not honduran is that it is part of the northern triangle and that many of the refugees, the migrants that are coming trying to come into the united are from your country. How does the climate affect their actions . I believe this is a crisis also caused by my will of model of aggression toward our planet. System of this position, which is an extractive system, creates the dispossession of the land, which is the place where many people manage to survive, managed to leave their life, their culture. This is one of the steps toward fleeing, toward migration. But we also see, for example, how the destruction of our territories, about rivers, is also causing the lands to dry, that the rain patterns are changing. So this causes the crops to dry out. We also saw the year before in our lenca communities, how corn cannot be harvested because it did not rain. So there were no opportunities. In the southern part of honduras, we are also seeing droughts. In the capital, there was a water crisis. There was no water. That generates instability. It is generating the need to flee. But i believe the central thing is this model of dispossession that takes away our territories, our Natural Resources, our good, destroys them and pushes us out of the places where we grew up and fostered our survival. Amy your mother was an incredibly brave woman. You are following in her footsteps. What gives you the courage and what gives you hope . I think the will to fight firsrst comes from the indignatn over the assassination of my mother and thinking, what would my mother do . Because i believe one of the things that i seek and a lot of other people seek is the power to honor her through our lives and through what gives me hope. I believe it which is aa, community that is joyful even in times when it seems there is no hope. There is laughter, there is a lot t of creativity to face the violent situations we live through. I think that encourages me a lot. In spite of everything, i stay in honduras because it is the place that gives me energy to continue. Amy laura zuniga caceres, one of the daughters of the slain honduran indigenous environmental activist Berta Caceres speaking to us in madrid, spain. When we come back, the translation crisis at the border. Stay with us. [music break] amy this is democracy now , im amy goodman. To useu. S. Continues hostile policies to stop people from seeking refuge and asylum in the United States, we look at a key problem preventing migrants from getting due process and in many cases , getting them deported inadequate interpretation resources for indigenous Asylum Seekers who speak mayan languages. Guatemala has a population of 15 Million People and at least 40 of them are indigenous. In the past year, a quarter of a million guatemalan migrants have been apprehended at the u. S. Mexico border. At least half of them are mayan. Many speak little or no spanish, that is the focus of the new yorker magazine, titled a possession crisis at the border. I had a chance to interview the author of the article rachel , nolan, in guatemala city. We also spoke with Odilia Romero, zapotec interpreter and an indigenous leader with the binational front of indigenous organizations for over 25 years. I asked rachel nolan to lay out her piece. Thank you for having me. In the course of reporting this story, i found many migrants who reach u. S. Mexico border are not given access to mayan language translation. During interviews in which migrants have to lay out why they are afraid of returning to their country of origin, many mayanlanguage speakers from guatemala are forced to do so in spanish, which is a language that they do not speak. So ive heard cases of people being deported after signing papers that they dont understand. Ive heard cases of families being separated and children isolated, spoken to in spanish, which is a lananguage that they dont understand. And many mayanlanguage speakers who are attempting to gain asylum, ill say theyre not migrating into the United States seeking work. They are attempting to access asylum. And they are only often given access to mayanlanguage translation at their final court date, if at all. Amy can you tell us a story, one of the people profile . This also goes to the horrific issue of the separation of parents and their children, how you begin your piece. I wanted to focus the story not just on those who have been victims, but also on the mayanlanguage speakers who are doing their best to help. Theres a large community, of which odilia is a part and its an honor to have her on the program with me mostly based in california, although throughout the United States, that are providing mayanlanguauage translation to immigrants crossing the u. S. Border. And one of those people that i was able to speak with at great length and profile and follow is oswaldo vidal martin, who is a mamlanguage speaker. Mam is one of 22 mutually unintelligible mayan languages. And oswaldo is based in fruitvale, which is in the kind of oakland area of california. And oswaldo was actually called to the border about a year ago, during the family separation crisis, and asked to interpret for several lawyers at the texas civil rights project. And he and many other mayanlanguage translators went, in both paid and volunteer capacity, to the border. And one of the families that he encountered was that of Mario Perez Domingo, who was a mamlanguage speaker separated from his twoyearold girl at the border because the Border Patrol had asked had asked him whether he had paid for a birth certificate for his twoyearold daughter with whom he was traveling. Now, mario does not speak spanish very well. Like many mayanlanguage speakers in guatemala, he speaks enough to go to the store, maybe sell tomatoes in the market, but not to navigate a complex legal interview. And so like many indigenouslanguage speakers at the border, he was afraid and was answering yes to many of the questions that he was asked. And so in guatemala, you do pay a very small fee to get a birth certificate. So when he was asked had he paid for the birth certificate of his daughter, he answered yes. And the Border Patrol agent used that answer as supposed evidence that he had paid for a false birth certificate, which was not trueue. And on the basis of that, he was separated from his daughter for several months. And because mario only speaks mam, he was not able to understand what was happening and why his daughter was separated from him. Again, mam is his primary language, and he speaks very little spanish, if at all. So he was answering yes, yes, yes, to try to ingratiate himself to the authorities, to try to control was what was clearly a very fearful situation. And only once oswaldo, the mamlanguage translator from california, arrived on the scene in texas was marios lawyer able to get all of the details of the case and work toward reuniting Mario Perez Domingo with his daughter, which eventually happened, but they were separated for a number of months because of language issues. Amy i w want to bring Odilia Romero into this conversation. If you could explain whahat the crisis you confronted was, what you saw, and how you saw, with this massive crackdown on migrants along the border, that the lack of interpretation was leading so many people to be either deported or separated from their children,n, and thehn what you did abobout it . Well, our experience at the binational front of indigenous organizations for short, i will call it fiob was, suddenly we started getting calls. And a little bit i wanted to tell you the history of interpreting in california for Indigenous People started in 1996 and 1997 by the fiob training mayans and mexican indigenous interpreters. So people knew of our existence. Suddenly, we just started getting these calls. We have, we need kiche. We need zapotec. We need mam. And suddenly everybodys calling us. We were getting calls from social media, texts. And at that point, you know, we didnt know what to do because there were so many. And the agencies will call us and say, i need zapoteco. And i would get on the phone because they wouldnt know what kind of what variant of zapotec. And so i would get on the phone. It turned out to be chinanteco. They were just getting those calls to us and trying figuring how to solve a problem, right . So some of the things that we went we went to texas, actually, and we went to some of the detention centers. And we found out people werent getting an interpreter. People didnt know how to identify the languages. So we launched a campaign, one training more interpreters throughout the u. S. So weve been training interpreters in chicago, in d. C. Were going to new york this month. In californinia, everywhere that we can, where these different variants of languages existed. That way, we are able to respond to some of the needs that were having at the border and were going to continue having at the border. Amy i want to go to this issue of the forprofit over the phone translations that take place and how it jeopardizes the legitimate asylum claims of so many Indigenous People. If you could lay this out for us and then talk about the philosophy behind your translation and interprpretation service . I took the test with one of the companies. I know i did not pass the test. But when they came back with a result, they said, excellent, youre ready to go and interpret in Immigration Court in zapotec. And i asked, well, how did you check . Like, how do you know that i was interpreting adequately . And they told me, we have a methodology, so youre good to go. So then we had our other trilingual interpreters take the test. And they all, being ethical and being trained by us, were like, we did not pass this test. We are not going to go do it. So they do not care there. And one of the things for us is the way that interpreting was developed was by spanishenglish interpreters. And nobody thought about us on how to develop a manual, on a code of ethics. Nothing was thought within us when these interpretation rules were developed. And, you know, some of the things for us as an indigenous interpreter, we were seeing, well, these arent making sense to us. We cannot interpret word per word. In the case of asylum, in my languauage, i will have i wil have to say that you can you have to leave because you could no longer be here because youre afraid that someone within this community or within this pueblo is going to hurt you, right . And if i say refugee, im afraid for my life that someones going to kill me. So theyre two different things. So if our interpreters do not know the difference between asylum and between refugee, they will not be able to convey the message. So we have to so we have to train them what are these words, because a lot of these proprofit language agencies, all the interpreters that they have, they borrow spanish reshnabo, asilo, reshnabo, or refugio. Thats not being said anything to that individual or to that detainee, as opposed to, you know, which is a very different thing than just reshnabo, asilo. So thats at the level weve gone in our Language Program to talk about how do we think about these words. How do we think from the immigration language, to the court language, to the medical language . How do we put it into our words . How do we describe it, right . Because it is asilo, asylum. Its very easy to just translate from spanish, interpret from spanish to english. However, for us, its very descriptive, so we have to train our interpreters. But the forprofit language agencies, its not about the human rights of the detainees. Its about making money, who gets the bid. Ive gotten calls from these companies, can you just take the calls . I cant, because i dont know what variant of zapotec it is. Just take the call. Zapotec is zapotec. So what were doing is training from a very different point as the standard models that they exist in the spanishllanguage, spspanishinterpreting schoolsl. Wewe had to develop our ownn curricicula. We had to develop our own glossary. We had to develop everything for ourselves as Indigenous People. So its a lot of work. But i think its so important that we are trained because the life of a person depends on us as the interpreters. If i go to a hospital and im not instructed how to give my child medicine in my language, i might put him at risk. If i go to the court and i dont know how to sasay asylum and i dont understand the court system, i could be that tool to deport the person. Amy so you have to understandnd as much western culture and what is happening here in the United States as you do indigenous culture. Yes. You have to understand the western culture very well and then be able to convert it to an indigenous world, in the same way an indigenous worldview to the western world. I will tell you about a case about a man that his child was taken away. And he told me in zapotec, when they took my children away, the tears just fell out of my eyes and my face like the rain in august in our region. If i interpret that literally, it doesnt make any sense to western world, right . But these are the way, in the case of zapoteco, is how he told me. And when i finally was on the bus, the tears just popped out, like the hail after the rain. And that doesnt make any sense, because the sentences are not very clear. So i need to be able to convert that into the western world. And this man, when his child was taken away, i mean, he didnt know. He agreed to meet these this was at thehe department of socil services. He went there because they had called the police on him, because the child wasnt growing. And when they got there, they just like, ok, sign these papers. The kids were taken away and he didnt know what happened. And so we need to know both worlds. Like, what do the department of social services do, what is the immigration languages, what is the vocabulary. Otherwise, were not being useful to Indigenous People as interpreters. We really have to be ethical about it and be honest. If i dont know the word but then theres the other issue that we have, is our biggest ally or our biggest enemy will be the spanishenglish interpreter. If they notice that were not making coherent sentences, they should stop us and ask, are you understanding what asylum is . Can i explain it to you . As opposed to just continuing. And i mention the spanishenglish interpreters because there are very few trilingual interpreters in the u. S. Most of them are bilingual, so they have to work with a relay interpreter, which is a spanishenglish interpreter, and that makes it much more difficult. And if that spanish and english interpreter just continues to interpret it without questioning, if theyre seeing that were borrowing a lot of spanish words, they should stop us. And this is who you have to work with. So instead of saying, this interpreter is not doing their interpreting adequately, stop and say, how can i help you . Like, how can i explain asylum for you . Do you know where, you know, the calendar is in Immigration Court . So we have a lot of challenges, so were tryrying to solve them little by little. Amy as you stand and guatemala city, rachel nolan, if you could talk about what most surprised you as you did this piece for the new yorker as you did your research or, translation crisis at the border, and what you feel what are people saying needs to happen now . I was shocked at the extent of the problem. When i called eagle earth of the , he said it is enormous. All of the problems that spanishlanguage Asylum Seekers me of example, they told the kind of worst cases of families that were separated at the border under trumps zerotolerance policy, and i will remind everyone that that policy is officially over, but the separations are ongoing. At least families have been 900 separated since the official end of that policy over a year ago. But lee gelernt of the aclu told me that of those over 4,000 families that were separated and one parent, at least, was deported back to their country of origin without their child of those 4000 cases lee gelernt , of the aclu estimated that 10 10 to 20 affected mayanlanguagespeaking guatemalans. That is enormous. Thats not just of the guatemalan Asylum Seekers. Thats of all of the families separated. The kind of scale of the problem was what most surprised me when i began reporting this story. Amy we will into rachels peace at democracynow. Org. 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