Tonight whether Republican Civil War is over no matter what senator ben sasse saying. And then Jared Bernstein on why democrats are ignoring experts who blew the response to the last recovery. Is bidens new progressive Foreign Policy here to stay . Is the socalled Bullhorn Lady is taken into custody, the Cell Phone Surveillance helping to track down insurrectionists. All in starts right now. Good evening from washington, d. C. Im Mendi Hasan In for chris hayes. The former president having lost and inspiring an insurrection is facing his second Impeachment Trial next week and his successor is telling cbs news tonight that his predecessor cannot be trusted with the nations top secret intelligence. Let me ask you something you do have oversight of as president. Should former President Trump still receive Intelligence Briefings . I think not. Why not . Because of his erratic behavior unrelated to the insurrection. Youve called him an existential threat, youre called him dangerous, youve called him reckless. Yeah, i have. And i believe it. Whats your worst fear if he continues to get these Intelligence Briefings . I would rather not speculate out loud. I just think that theres no need for him to have that Intelligence Briefing. What value is giving him an Intelligence Briefing . What impact does he have at all other than the fact he might slip and Say Something . It would normally be crazy to say that a former president cant be trusted with the nations secrets. But these are not normal times. And in this case, the former president just incited an insurrection against his own country. And while trump stews is plots against his enemies, the next generation of Republican Leadership is making clear that they remain his loyal foot soldiers. Ive always supported him. And i want to tell you, Republican Voters support him still. The party is his. It doesnt belong to anybody else. There has been this talk about a civil war within the Republican Party with trump and people like Marjorie Taylor greene and matt gaetz and ted cruz on one side and on the other side people like liz cheney and senator ben sasse who stand for the more traditional gop. But talk of such a war implies that there are two moral less equal sides and this isnt that kind of war. Its more of a rout. They find that green has a net favorability among republicans of plus ten. Liz cheneys favorability is negative 28. Cheney is an avatar in some ways of the pretrump Republican Party which most of the gop base no longer wants anything to do with. 64 of gop voters said in another new poll that if trump were to start a new political party, theyd likely join it. This is one of the oldest Political Parties in the Western Democratic world. The party of lincoln, of eisenhower. But most gop voters dont have any use for it. Theyre not tied to the Republican Party. They are tied to donald trump and to the politics of defiance and grievance that he represents. Theres no governing philosophy any longer, no faints towards small government or Supply Side Economics or any of that. Its just own the libs and fight cancel culture. Its why people like Marjorie Taylor greene dont care if they get kicked off congressional committees which is where the work of government is supposed to take place. If theres anything we learned from four years of trump, its that this simply is not a governance project of any kind. Im fine with being kicked off of my committees because it would be a waste of my time. I have a lot of free times on my hands which means i can talk to a whole lot more people. And thats all she wants to do. Like trump before her, shes a professional troll who happens to have been elected to a job in government that she doesnt particularly want to do. Lets talk about the other side in this socalled Republican Civil War. Its true that liz cheney survived a vote to remove her from leadership after she voted to impeach trump, but it was a secret ballot. They made sure no one knew who voted for her. Thats not exactly a vote for confidence. And the next day, cheney herself voted against kicking greene off her committees in a vote that was not secret. She knows which way the wind is blowing. In the end, only 11 House Republicans voted to kick greene off her committees and only ten of them voted to impeach trump for inciting a violent insurrection. Roughly 95 of the gop house caucus sided with trump and greene. Thats who the party belongs to. Thats true at the state level, especially. In arizona where republicans lost the president ial race for the First Time Since 1996, the state gop responded by censuring cindy mccain and other Top Republicans at odds with trump. In illinois, gop congressman Adam Kinzinger was censured by republicans for voting to impeach trump and in nebraska, ben sasse is facing a possible censure from his state Party Central committee which prompted this response from sasse. The anger has always been about me not bending the knee to one guy. I still believe that politics isnt about the weird worship of one dude. Lets talk about ben sasse for a moment because he is a reflection and embodiment of so much of whats wrong with his party. Today is the oneyear anniversary of the acquittal of donald j. Trump in his first Senate Impeachment trial. You remember that. And you know who voted to acquit with the exception of mitt romney, every single republican senator, including one ben sasse. The nebraska start wants credit for having sometimes been critical of trump. But he went silent, even quitting twitter ahead of his own reelection in a successful pursuit of a complete and total endorsement from the president. And then he voted to acquit a year ago today when he actually had a chance, the power, to do something to stop the disastrous trump presidency. Now that trump is gone, sasse wants us to think hes a bold truth teller. Some of us have longer memories than just yesterday. Sasse has more in common with Marjorie Taylor greene than he might like to admit. They both hitched their wagon to trump because they know thats the way republicans win now. And now the party of trump lurches forward without a governing agenda outside of culture wars and bashing democrats as socialists, while worshiping at the altar of the twice impeached former president. And thats exactly how Marjorie Taylor greene wants it. While there were ten that voted for impeachment against President Trump and they definitely paid the price, they heard from Republican Voters, the base is loyal to President Trump and the base has been very loyal to me and theyve shown me that. Democratic congresswoman Nikema Williams of georgia introduced a resolution to censure Marjorie Taylor greene. She joins me now. Thanks for joining me on the show. Your republican colleagues have supported Marjorie Taylor greene even as we learn more and more about that violence that she supported, her love of lies, Conspiracy Theories, racism. How do you work with a Republican Party thats made it clear they value Conspiracy Theories over evidence, fiction over fact, time and again . Should democrats even bother trying . I am here to do the work of the people and i keep hearing people on the other side saying that democrats should be working towards unity and people ask me about working in a bipartisan fashion and i tell them all the time that i can work with anyone as long as our disagreement is not based in my oppression and the denial of my humanity as a person. And there are some people on the other side of the aisle who truly do not me that me as a black woman should be serving in this body. I know democrats still have the majority. It doesnt matter how slim the margin. A majority is a majority and were moving forward with doing the work of the people. We held Marjorie Taylor greene accountable yesterday and on the same day i was in my House Financial ServicesCommittee Hearing talking about how do we extend the eviction moratorium. How do we get people the support they need on the ground. Thats what im here for to help people. And people in her district are hurting too. Its baffling to me that she would Say Committee work is not important. You mentioned her district. Im listening to you speak. You are both congresswomen from georgia. You are a woman of color elected from the Democratic Party in georgia. You are quoting James Baldwin to me on television and here she is, elected from georgia quoting q and all sorts of other freaks from the internet. Its pretty indicative, sadly, of the weird divide in our country right now. Georgia is a tale of two states right now. What we saw in our very historic elections with our two new u. S. Senators is that were a battleground state. And that means that we are 50 50 and we have to fight for every vote and continue to tell our story. What it also showed us is that georgia is ready for big change and we sent a black man and jewish man to represent the deep south. Marjorie Taylor Greene represents her party, but im the future of this country. Black people, jewish people, were Building Coalitions to make sure everyone in this country is represented. Do you feel safe in the hallways of congress right now as a woman of color . So i remember the day of the insurrection. My husband dropped me off at the capitol because he was here in d. C. With me after my swearing in and i told him that day that once i got inside of the building, i would be safe. And that just turned out that it was couldnt have been further from the truth. And now i dont like to walk places alone. Today i went for a vote and the Capitol Police that are standing right outside of the chamber, they joked because my Chief Of Staff wasnt standing right there with me. Theyre like, where is she . She doesnt let you go anywhere alone because its not safe. I have 24hour security at my home just to keep my family safe. I have a 5yearold son who asked me, can the bad guys climb the building to get into my apartment . So we have a long way to go to make sure every member of the body is safe when were here doing the work of the people. That is truly depressing to hear you talk about your security and child about that. Its depressing. Joe biden is saying tonight on cbs news that donald trump should no longer get Intelligence Briefings . Do you believe donald trump is a threat to National Security . Donald trump is absolutely a threat to National Security. I voted to impeach him. He should never be allowed to run for office again and i also filed a resolution saying that he shouldnt be allowed back on capitol hill because i dont want him hosting rallies, hosting events. He still controls the Republican Party. He controls a large swath of people across the country who want to incite violence on elected leaders in this country. So he absolutely should not be getting Intelligence Briefings. He never read them anyway. Congresswoman Nikema Williams, thank you for your time. This is true. Thank you. Brendan buck, the press secretary for john boehner as well as the chief Communications Adviser for paul ryan. Thank you for coming on the show. Trump has been office for more than two weeks. We were told once hes gone, he would lose his grip on the gop. Clearly he hasnt lost his grip on the gop. Theyre still beholden to him, how come . I dont know who told you that. I certainly wasnt expecting that. It was never going to be a clean break. I think there are still a lot of members of congress, despite what they say publicly, who dont care for him. But their voters still passionately do. Its going to be a process. Youve made clear that you think this Republican Civil War is over. I dont necessarily disagree that the trumpists have won the war. But nothing lasts forever in politics and its silly to together that okay. There are still thoughtful, principled people in congress and i think its wrong to equate a ben sasse with a Marjorie Taylor greene. Ben sasse has a world view. He has policy, principles that are firmly held and he believes it. He goes to washington to try to get things done. When we say that hes just like Marjorie Taylor greene, i think thats ridiculous. Marjorie Taylor Greene has no interest just to be clear go ahead. Just to be clear, just to be clear, when i said a moment ago that he is the same as Marjorie Taylor greene, i was referring specifically to linking his career to donald trump. Its undeniable that he stopped criticizing trump in order to get trumps endorsement. Its undeniable that a year ago today he did not vote to convict donald trump. Of course hes not like Marjorie Taylor greene. You worked for john boehner and paul ryan, quote unquote, establishment republicans. Didnt this all start on their watch, the birtherism, the conspiracies . They would argue that theyre the symptoms of the broken party, not the cause of it. I think it would go back farther. One of the reasons that donald trump was able to overtake the Republican Party was that so many Republican Voters hate the Republican Party. For 20 years, it has been currency to mislead them and attack basically our own leadership. Whether youre talking about talk radio, blogs, certain cable channels. When we were in the speakers office, that was currency to attack us and basically say, youre just not fighting hard enough. Thats the ethos right now. Ted cruz told us if we thought a little harder we could pass obama care. If voters see that youre not delivering, theyre going to hate you. One of the challenges, being a republican Establishment Leader is that your base dislikes you so much and theyve been fed so many lies for so long. I wish when we were there we pushed back on ted cruz who was just lying to people about what was possible and he knew it wasnt possible. There were a lot of things we probably could have done better to push back on this. So chris hayes, he often makes the point that republicans in congress traded 400,000 dead for tax cuts and judges. Your former boss began by confusing donald trump of textbook racism. And once he was in office, he was saying, well, im not reading his tweets and he was praising the tax cuts. Isnt that the problem . No, i think that is your narrative of how we handled it. For all of your viewers who think we did everything donald trump wanted to do, i promise you there are plenty of trump voters who think paul ryan was getting in the way of everything he wanted to do. The reality s we worked with him when we could, we spoke out when we felt we needed to and we got some things done that we think are good policy. When did paul ryan speak out against donald trump once he was president . When did paul ryan speak out against donald trump . Countless times, during child separation, pardons, when he would attack mika brzezinski. Countless times that people just sort of overlook. Thats fine. Ask any trump voter whether they think that paul ryan was a donald trump ally. The point is i think were out of time. But i appreciate you coming on and making the counterargument. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks. More news from the president on what parts of the covid relief bill hes willing to negotiate on. Jared bernstein with that and how it seems like democrats may have learned from the mistakes of 2009. Thats next. dad vo i saw them out of the corner of my eye. Just a blur when they jumped the median. There was nothing i could do. daughter daddy dad vo shes safe because of our first outback. And our new ones even safer. vo welcome to the 2020 subaru outback. An iihs top safety pick . The highest level of safety you can earn. vo get 0 for 63 months on select new 2021 models. Now through march 1st. My body is truly powerful. I have the power to lower my a1c. Because my body can still make its own insulin. And trulicity activates my body to release it, lowering my blood sugar from the first dose. Onceweekly trulicity responds when my body needs it, 24 7. Trulicity is for type 2 diabetes. Its not insulin. It isnt for people with type 1 diabetes. 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As the Republican Party struggles to stand for anything other than trump, the democrats under President Joe Biden are remarkably demonstrating a newfound confidence, unity and dare i say sense of purpose. Earlier today, joe biden made it clear that his covid relief bill is too important to wait for republican support. Im going to act fast. I would like to be i would like to be doing it with the support of republicans. I met with republicans. Theres some really fine people who want to get something done. But theyre just not willing to go as far as i think we have to go. Ive told both republicans and democrats, thats my preference to work together. But if i have to choose between getting help right now to americans who are hurting so badly and getting bogged down in a lengthy negotiation or compromising on a bill thats up to the crisis, thats an easy choice. Wow. To be honest, i was worried Biden Would Cave to the badfaith bipartisan mob. But he hasnt so far. Even west Virginias Joe Manchin who has presented himself at times as the single biggest obstacle to Biden Economic agenda praised the president s approach and revealed his thinking. A breath of fresh air is having President Biden come in and putting direction and leadership. Its been wonderful. He said, basically, i dont want to go down the path that we went down in 2009. We negotiated for eight months and still didnt have a product. That new cando attitude from democrats has not sat well with well, the Republican Party. Especially Mitch Mcconnell who just a few days ago who was explaining about democrats using some of his old tricks against him. Former clinton treasury secretary Larry Summers penned an oped arguing the Biden Rescue Package might be too big. But several Top Democrats from across the ideological spectrum jumped in to defend the plan, including brian schatz who said why would we listen to the economist who said we went too small last time. Speaking earlier today, Jared Bernstein, a member of the White House Council of economic advisers said the risks of doing too little are far greater than the risks of going big. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Joe biden said better to go too big than too small. Where is that coming from . Its coming from a lifetime of lessons in politics and, yes, when he was Vice President he was the implementer in chief of the recovery act. Hes been to this rodeo before. I think probably the biggest motivator, though, every economic shock, recession, theyre all different. And i think whats really motivating the president is the steep, steep cost of inaction against this dual crisis of the pandemic and the economic damage that its done. Damage thats not been felt equitably across this economy. Damage and pain and lasting hardship, particularly among those in the bottom half of the income scale, people who have born the brunt of both the health and the economic crisis. These costs include job loss. We learned this morning that we added 49,000 jobs last month in the private sector, only 6,000. The Job Creation Machine has essentially stalled. Unemployment rates for black and hispanics are around 9 . Thats about 10 million unemployed people. 40 of whom who have been unemployed for at least six months. This risks a scarring effect. Thats people stuck out of the labor market as we continue to underperform and not get our arms around the virus. The American Rescue plan does that. Its of a magnitude to meet the magnitude of the crisis. Yes, and just hearing those Unemployment Numbers from you and thinking about Larry Summers saying were going to overheat the economy, just bizarre. The president said tonight that hes prepared to negotiate on who the 1400 checks go to. The big question is who gets the checks. Thats right. Is it someone who makes up to 50,000 or is it someone who makes up to 75,000 . Im prepared to negotiate on that. But heres the deal. Middle class folks need help. But you dont need to get any help to someone making 300,000 bucks or 250. So its somewhere between an individual making up to 75 and phasing out and a couple making up to 150 and phasing out. But, again, im wide open on what that is. Jared, youve gone from 2,000 checks out the door to 1400 checks adding to the existing 600 checks and now you might be changing who gets it. Arent you worried that people might accuse you of betrayal. You could lose those two georgia seats that you won if you dont keep your promise on the checks. First of all, the president has consistently from day one been locked in on 2,000 checks. He has never wavered on that commitment. Now, there have been lots of discussions and, again, in the spirit of good faith compromise, the president has been involved in these discussions and not just with republicans, but with democrats as well about these parameters. And i think there is a reasonable argument, if you heard the president say, that someone at 250 or 300,000 doesnt need a check. That speaks to the phase out, perhaps a faster phaseout would be part of this compromise. Thats yet to be seen. But i guarantee you the president is locked in on 2000, meaning 600 from december and 1,400 from the American Rescue plan and you heard him say that tonight. Yes, just depends on where the phase out is. If youre talking about 50, 75, those are people who are hurting as well as many have pointed out. We heard the president say exactly that. Okay. Good. And we also heard the president tonight talk about the 15 minimum wage which is in the current relief bill, about whether it makes it into the final package. The president saying it might get cut out during negotiations. Isnt it depressing to see not just republicans but democrats saying 15 as a wage is too high in his state. Thats depressing, isnt it . Look, joe manchin is a member of our caucus, a member of the democratic caucus, a member of the senate who has consistently been in these conversations and negotiations with the white house and the president. And you heard him a few minutes ago on your show of applauding the seriousness and style of which were approaching this. Thats kind of in joe bidens bloodstream. Thats one of the things he likes to do. What i heard him say tonight on your show and he said it before is that while he is perfectly happy to have these discussions and exchange of views with people, what hes not going to do is slow down the relief to the American People and the efforts that are so essential to both control the virus and distribute the vaccine and deal a Knockout Blow to covid19. The minimum wage is something were going to be working with democrats on until we get to where it should be. And for joe biden, thats 15 an hour. Thats good to hear. Jared bernstein, were out of time. Thank you so much for your time. President Biden Making Big News on the Foreign Policy front as well. Well talk about that next. And new reporting on the Cell Phone Tracking thats helping to locate capitol insurrectionists, including one iconic figure who is now in police custody. That story ahead. Custody that story ahead Charlotte Charl every day can be extraordinary with rich, creamy, Delicious Fage total yogurt. As carla wonders if she can retire sooner, shell revisit her plan with fidelity. And with a scenario that makes it a possibility, shell enjoy her dream right now. Thats the planning effect, from fidelity. In a year of changes. Dont take chances on your taxes. Be 100 certain with jackson hewitt. Well get your taxes done right, guaranteed. If you smell gas, youre too close. Leave the structure, call 911, keep people away, and call pg e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. If you see wires down, treat them all as if theyre hot and energized. Stay away from any downed wire, call 911, and call pg e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. Defense secretary austin will be leading a Global Review of our forces so that our Military Footprint is appropriately aligned with our Foreign Policy and National Security priorities. Were also stepping up our diplomacy to end the war in yemen, a war which has created a humanitarian catastrophe. This war has to end. And to underscore our commitment, were ending all american support for offensive operations in the war in yemen, including relevant arm sales. The Biden Administration seems to be keeping its Campaign Promise to move quickly to fix u. S. Foreign policy in reverse the way donald trump handled so many things. Yesterday in a speech at the state department, President Biden said that he was cutting off support for the saudiled Military Campaign in yemen which began in 2015 under an Obama Administration that included vice President Joe Biden. As of last december, more than 127,000 people have reportedly been killed in that war. Today the Biden Administration team turned its focus toward another challenge, the Iran Nuclear Deal which trump pulled out of in 2018. Democratic congressman ro khanna of california is a member of the house armed Services Committee and introduced a bill back in 2017 to end u. S. Support for the saudiled war in yemen. Its a big win for you and for progressive antiwar activists in this country. Although joe biden says hes ending all american support for offensive operations. Clearly a good thing. But how far does that go . The saudis will just say all their actions in yemen are defensive. Its a big win for the activists around the country that you have an american president saying were going to end this war and not provide intelligence support for the saudis, not provide any support for the saudi bombing campaign. Heres the important point, its the congress and the United States that gets to decide what an offensive campaign is. So if the saudis come and say theyre going to bomb some yemen village, were going to say, no way. And this congress is going to make sure that the saudis dont get away with that. Thats good to hear. Tonight its been reported that the Biden Administration is reserving trumps lastminute designation of the Houthi Rebels in yemen as a terrorist organization which impacted the humanitarian situation on the ground. What do you say to hawks in d. C. , in tel aviv saying this is biden being soft on iran . When donald trump took office, iran had 100 kilograms of enriched uranium. When he left they had 2. 5 million enriched uranium. 25 times more. Trumps maximum pressure campaign, trumps designation against the houthis, did absolutely nothing to deter the iranians. Its allowing food and medicine and commercial activity into the yemenese which is going to deter the Iranian Nuclear expansion. And robert mali was someone the hawks didnt like either. Getting back into the jacop feels like a game of chicken. Iran says, hold on, you guys pulled out first. You get back in first, then well join. It feels like a good deal is being held off because of this pointless, you first, you first. Why cant they join together at the same time . I agree with you. What we should get rid of is the trump sanctions. If iran doesnt comply, we can always snap them right back. Theres no loss in removing those sanctions, having iran comply. Iran, otherwise, is going to continue to build the Nuclear Capacity and at some point data has to matter. This is not a matter of opinion. Iran developed the greatest Uranium Enrichment during the trump administration. Its not just that the maximum campaign was morally bad, it was a blunder, a strategic blunder. Lift the sanctions and have them back in and thats the best way to curb their nuclear ambition. Yes. Trumps strategic blunders fills up a lot of pages. Saudi arabia, israel, iran, two of them allies, one of them an adversary. Do you see Biden Resetting relations with any of them . I think hes going to reset relations with all of them. Hes going to make it clear to the saudis that the offensive war in yemen and their tactics of Human Rights Abuses are not going to be tolerated. They have to reset their priorities to have a relationship with the United States. With iran, hes going to make it clear that they have to comply with the jcpoa. We want to reset that relationship. And with israel, hes going to make it clear that israel is an ally. Its always been an ally of the United States. But they have to recognize palestinian statehood. They cant be having new settlements, burning down villages. Human rights are going to matter. Were going to have a human rightsfocused Foreign Policy. I hope so, congressman. I really do hope so. Were out of time now. Thank you so much for your time tonight. Thank you. Ahead as republicans attempt to downplay the deadly attack on the capitol, the arrests continue to stack up. And tonight one of the rioters seen Shouting Orders is in custody. That story is more ahead. At jackson hewitt, we offer safe and easy ways to file with a skilled tax pro. Securely drop off your documents, have them picked up, or upload them, and work with a tax pro online from home. Safe and easy ways to file that work around you. So through ancestry, i discovered my great aunt ruth signed up as a Nursing Cadet for world war ii. She was only 17. Bring your Family History to life like never before. Get started for free at ancestry. Com when did you see the sign . When i needed to jumpstart sales. Build attendance for an event. Help people find their way. Fastsigns designed new directional signage, and got them back on track. Get started at fastsigns. Com and so we go into her office and im at, like, a ten, right . Like, im at a full ten, fight or flight, thought i was going to die, like, ten minutes ago. Then thought i was going to die again. Were outside in this hallway alone, im banging on this door and im thinking and im fully expecting one of these insurrectionists to turn the corner with a gun and that it would be over, again. Congresswoman alexandria ocasiocortez described her terrifying experience at the Capitol On January the 6th in that Instagram Live video earlier this week. Ever since, Conservative Media has been trying to smear her as a liar claiming she exaggerated how much danger she was in because she was not at the Capitol Building but a nearby office by on the capitol complex. And now her republican colleague has joined the attacks on aocs accountability. Tweeting, im two doors down from aoc and no insurrectionists stormed our hallway along with a fox news article about aoc facing backlash for her accounts of the event. She piled on even further on an interview on fox news that afternoon. Not at one moment during the events of january 6th did any rioter or insurrectionists come down our highways where our offices are located. All i did was state the facts. I live in reality. I deal with facts and not fiction. And i said that there were no rioters in the hallways of cannon and she lost it today. She doesnt deal in reality. I think its really important that we take members to task when theyre not being honest with the American People. Hold on. First off, aoc never claimed there were insurrectionists in her hallway. In terms of the threat, nancy was there that day too. What did she say about it at the time . In the midst of the riots on january the 6th, she tweeted about evacuating her office in cannon due to a nearby threat. The next morning she described the danger she felt she was in. At one point where we were evacuating because of the pipe bomb threat, i was stuck in a narrow tunnel with 100 people, staff and members of congress. It was a dangerous situation. Lives were put at risk. And my message to americans today is it was a very sad day in our nations history. It was a very dangerous situation. Mace gave more details to a newspaper that day saying she barricaded herself inside her office during the attack fearing that Trump Supporters she had seen staying at a hotel might target her after she voted to certify the electoral vote. She said she decided to sleep in her office that night. In fact, she was to fearful in the wake of the attack that she told a local news station that she intended to carry a gun on capitol hill saying, quote, i will not be put in that situation again. So, to be clear, nancy mace wants to carry a gun and barricade herself in her office but aoc is lying about and exaggerating the threat. These people are shameful. We know the attackers were spread out across the complex. Weve seen the images and the feds are seeing data like this. Those dots are the Cell Phone Locations of insurrectionists inside the Capitol Building on january 6th. Its part of a set of data being used to identify individuals in the mob with the help of big brother. But also raising questions therefore about our surveillance state. Well examine that next. State. Well examine that next. Smooth driving pays off. With allstate, the safer you drive the more you save. You never been in better hands. Allstate. Click or call for a quote today. At visionworks, we want you to feel safe you never been and we want you to see yourself in your new glasses and think, ooh but if you get home and your ooh is more of a hmm. You have 100 days to change your mind. 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So, you can really promise better sleep . Not promise. Prove. Dont miss our weekend special, save 50 on the sleep number 360 limited Edition Smart bed. Plus, 0 interest for 60 months on all smart beds. Ends monday. The ongoing pursuit of insurrectionists and participated in the capitol riot continues across the country including in pennsylvania where the home of this woman, rachel marie powell, better known as the Bullhorn Lady, was raided by the fbi yesterday. Powell surrendered to agents because according to her attorney, she wanted to turn herself in to face these charges and address them head on. According to a criminal complaint filed this morning, she was the woman seen speaking through a bullhorn and giving detailed instructions about the layout of the Capitol Building. She can be heard saying she had just been inside the Capitol Building and they have another window to break. Another evidence used against her was cellphone pinging towers on january 6. That small bit of information buried in this complaint is part of a larger story. Today a piece in the New York Times by Charlie Warzel features a leaked data set showing data from the phones presence at or near the riot that day. Each blip you see there is a cellphone pinging which you can watch move from the rally to the Capitol Building in the time leading to the riot. While this data is not tied directly to names or phone numbers, the times found that unique identifiers can be used to follow phones from the rally to the capitol and at times right back to their owners front doors across the country. On the one hand, its a good thing authorities are arresting and charging the insurrectionists. On the other hand, should we all be worried about the power of big brother and surveillance by a smartphone . Charlie warzel joins me now. Charlie, how did you get this Data Committee is how did the person who gave it to you have access to this detailed level of personal information, personal data . Well, im not going to reveal my source, but they provided it to us because they had access to it, and they were quite worried about this. This is an alarming thing. They also shared it because they were furious about the events of january 6, and they said something, you know, pretty chilling which we put in the piece, which shows how conflicted they were. They said they could have just posted this to the internet, they could have posted it and let people, you know, go and deanonymize it like we did, and then off to the races for Vigilante Justice of any kind. This kind of power is staggering. But Companies Collect this data, its out there in databases being bought and stolen and traded. Its all serving the advertising industry. And i mean, i urge everyone to read your piece, its fascinating, very granular stuff. Charlie, you write in that piece, quote, about 40 of the phones tracked near the rally stage on the National Mall during the speeches were a clear link between those who had listened to the president and his allies and then marched on the building. That totally undermines the trump teams defense. They say he had nothing to do with the riot. The data says otherwise. It does say otherwise. This is part of the issue, an a quandary. Its a phenomenal reporting tool, it helps tell the story of that day, as you say, in granular detail. It helps to see a link between the president s speech and what we saw at the Capitol Building. Its Mass Surveillance being conducted on a Lot Of Unwitting [ inaudible ]. Yeah, and its just we laughed at some of these insurrectionists who posted selfies and posted to facebook about where they were in the building and it helped them get arrested. But even if they hadnt done that, theres a way of finding them by their pings. You say in your piece, the Location Tracking industry exists because those in power allow it to exist. Plenty of americans remain oblivious to this collection through no fault of their own but many others understand whats happening but allow it anyway, they feel powerless to stop it or simply seduced by conveniences afforded in the tradeoff. Given that apt summary, what can be done about it . Pressuring lawmakers to do something about it. This is the second data set we received. In 2019 we wrote a sevenpart series, we had lawmakers from josh hawley to Elizabeth Warren tell us this is a matter of National Security, this was a huge worry. This was being perpetrated on innocent american citizens. Weve had a pandemic but nothing has happened. This is now another instance of this. And, you know, this could be collected on people protesting Police Violence and, you know, possibly has been throughout the last summer. This is a real issue for freedom of expression, to gather. Its a real worry. Its a very real worry, because i asked at the beginning, how does your source have this access. What would it take for a business or a government or an individual person to get hold of this Reverse Engineerable data . Well, the United States government, according to reports from the wall street journal, buys this, they buy it as a commercial entity, which is just like what advertising, Ad Tech Companies do. It gets sliced and diced and indexed. There are companies that help deanonymize this data, essentially, they dress it up in a whole bunch of different terms but thats what theyre doing, theyre deanonymiing so they can serve you banner ads. Its all junk and were all being tracked because of it. Its this weird paradox in this country where you have people, especially the kind of people who marched on the capitol and support donald trump who go on and on about the first amendment, the second amendment, our freedoms, but are perfectly fine with being surveilled 24 7 by the smartphone in their pocket. Its very fascinating, given a lot of the politics of the crowd that was at the Capitol Building, right . These are people who, some of them, qanon believers, believe bill gates is going to put a microchip in their vaccine and wont take a vaccine. Meanwhile theyre carrying the monday advanced Surveillance Device known to man in their pocket, keeping it on, and committing federal crimes. Its very hard to square that. You know, Contact Tracing throughout the coronavirus pandemic could have been done with some of this technology to save countless lives. Its been happening in southeast asia, to great effect. But, you know, we all said no, but were fine with the targeted ads, that seems to be the thing were okay with, the junk banner ads. They did it in south korea and i remember people saying, we cant do that here, that would be a restriction on freedom. And yet. One last question. Less than 30 seconds to go. Will it get worse before it gets better, our Surveillance Situation . Yeah, i think so. The Technology Gets better, and these Companies Get better at doing it. So we need lawmakers to act on this. This is something they can do, regulation can happen in this industry. I hope youre right, charlie, because i dont really want it to get worse before it gets better, but i agree with you, i suspect it will. Charlie warzel, thank you for your time this morning, great reporting in the New York Times. Thats all in this evening, you can always find me on peacock where my show streams, i hope you check it out. The Rachel Maddow show starts now. Good evening, rachel. Good evening, great to see you, my friend, thank you so much, have a great weekend. Thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. Happy to have you here. April 11, this past year, was a really dark time, if you remember. My birthday was right at the beginning of april and i remember when my birthday happened this year i was like, i dont much feel like celebrating. By april 11, we were just a few weeks into nationwide lockdowns and streets just emptying out all over america. April 11 was actually the day the u. S. Passed a half million cases of coronavirus, a half million cases that day. By april 11, more than 20,000 americans had already died from covid and we all knew it was going to get so, so much worse. The future was looking then, and would turn out to be, incredibly grim. On that same day, april 11, a woman in missouri said publicly she had