Transcripts For MSNBC Ayman 20240708

It is good to be with you, everyone. I am ayman mohyeldin. For nearly a year now, we have been healing all about the effort that the u. S. Has been putting into restoring the 2015 iran nuclear deal. We have been told how important it is that time is of the essence that the iranians are being stubborn, but that we are being closer to restoring the agreement, President Trump killed back in 2018. In fact, just last month, thats a little bit of the headlines were saying. But now, that whole narrative is changing. The u. S. Iran and five other countries that are party to this deal are in the middle of the eighth round of talks in vienna. According to reporting from the wall street journal, u. S. Officials are now saying that Irans Nuclear capabilities are to advanced to even restore a key goal in the original deal. The socalled Breakout Period that iran would need to build a Nuclear Weapon has now decreased significantly, less than the 12 months that underpinned the initial pact. In fact, in pulling out of the deal, donald trump effectively ended the measures that would have eliminated irans uranium enrichment. That is a pretty clear i told you so moment for those of those who actually supported this at the time. And yet, around, and d. C. Are capitalizing on this moment, pushing the hopes for any deals further into oblivion, by arguing, what is the point of even having one . In fact, listen to a new jersey senator bob menendez earlier this week. 3 to 4 weeks, a month or less. That is how long most analysts have concluded it would take iran to produce enough material for a nuclear bomb, if they chose to do so. At this point, we seriously have to ask, what exactly are we trying to salvage, what are we trying to salvage . Now, some might say that to the senator in fact, were trying to salvage peace itself. See, there is no deal, and if no deal is reached the State Department has repeatedly warned that iran will try to become a nuclear state. And countries, in particular, israel have not only threatened action against iran if that happens, but is hoping that the u. S. Will join with it. In fact, just in december, Israeli Defense minister urged the Biden Administration to hold joint Military Exercises with his country to prepare to destroy Irans Nuclear facilities if diplomacy fails. A Pentagon Spokesperson says he has nothing to announce regarding any joint exercises with israel. Just what america needs, right . Another Military Conflict in the middle east, because the region is not destabilized enough. But not everyone is giving up on diplomacy just yet. Bidens Special Envoy to iran, rob malley, suggested that iran and the u. S. Should both simultaneously return to the agreement. And, then they should decide on the next steps. But is that even possible . Where do things really stand in vienna right now . In fact, is there anything left to salvage . Now joining me to discuss this and more is rob malley, the Biden Administration Special Envoy for iran, he was also lead negotiator in the 2015 iran nuclear deal, also known as the joint Comprehensive Plan Of Action or jcpoa. Robert, thank you so much for joining us, i appreciate your time greatly. The news this week, i have to say, makes the deal look like it is hanging by a thread, if it is not already dead. U. S. Officials saying Irans Nuclear program was already gone too far for the deals original framework to even matter. What should we be making of the headlines this week . So first, i would say great to be on your show, ayman. So, i think that no u. S. Official i know has said theres no point into cutting back into the deal, given this information. On the contrary. What we have heard so far, all the advances iran has made has bolster the case of getting back into the deal, because we have lived the alternative for the last several years, and i see what happens to Irans Nuclear program. Irans unconstrained, and that is why we see that, as of today, they are only a few weeks away from enough enriched uranium for a bomb. The points that you made about, well, because of the advances that they have made over the years, over the years since we withdrew from the deal, but it will be hard to recapture the full amount of benefits, a breakout time that is achieved in 2015, 2016. That is obviously one of the many catastrophic consequences of the decision to leave the deal. But our experts say, as of today, it is a position of President Biden, of secretary blinken, and the rest of the team. As of today, it is still well worth getting back into the deal, there is much that could still be salvaged. Not for much longer. As of today, our viewers say getting back into the deal, will be getting back profoundly into interest, profoundly into seeing iran, to avoid more tension, and more conflict in the middle east. As of today, it is clearly the u. S. Position, and still worth going into the deal. But what we have said, very openly to iran, is that will not be the case much longer, which is why we say, we only have a few more weeks to go, at the current pace of Irans Nuclear advances, to get back into the deal, or unfortunately, we will all face a very different reality. I am sure you have seen some of the comments made on capitol hill this week. Senator bob menendez question the point of rejoining the deal, as you are just making the case for it. Let me just play for you the soundbite on what he had to say about your perspective of the deal. Watch this. To quote again, rob malley, the president s iran negotiator, trying to revive the deal at this point would be quote, tantamount to trying to revive a dead corpse. All right. So according to him, in that specific quote that he used a view, he is trying to make you sound pretty hopeless. Obviously, thats not the case. Senator menendez, his visual aid this week, it seems that it was reminding me of a similar 1 10 years ago, with netanyahu. What do you say to bob menendez over there, with him using your quote . Well, obviously, we have a lot of demonstrations, and i work very closely with melendez on all issues. We know that he was a opponent of the jcpoa, we continue to talk to him about this and respected. But as i said at this pace, if we continue, we will soon reach the point or trying to revive the jcpoa would be tantamount to trying to revive a dead corpse. President biden still wants us to negotiate, going back next week. That is a signal or sign of our continued belief that it is not a dead corpse that we need to revive, because it is in our interest, it is the best way that we have to continue to put Irans Nuclear program back into a box to make sure that we could put that problem to the side, as we do with so many other issues that iran presents to us. So no, we have not yet reached that point, but i think that it is very clear that if we do not reach a deal soon, that point will have been reached. Then, we will have to think of other ways to address Irans Nuclear program. As of today, it is our view, and the view of our european partners. The best way forward is to get back into the deal, if iran is prepared to do its share, and come back into full compliance with its obligations. Let me play for you another clip if i can win the Un General Assembly last fall. It is the israeli Prime Minister, bennett. He had this to say about Irans Nuclear capabilities at the time. Irans Nuclear Program has hit a watershed moment. And so has our tolerance. Words did not stop centrifuges from spinning. Weird did not stop centrifuges but, military action, will that stop the centrifuges . We know israelis have asked the americans to join in Military Exercises. Is wore something you are preparing for if diplomacy fails . Again, we have, we worked very closely with the Israeli Government, we are very transparent, we do have a disagreement on this issue, our belief is not that words are going to stop Irans Nuclear program, it is at the jcpoa, the deal, the agreement that we reached proved that we stopped it, and could stop it again. Again, we have lived the alternative. This is not counterfactual, this is an experiment we have live for three years, without the deal, we saw what happened to Irans Nuclear program, and whats the maximum Pressure Campaign to the opposite of stopping the Nuclear Program. Irans Nuclear Program accelerated. Now i want to get back into the deal before iran is prepared to do so, we are prepared to do our share of lifting those sanctions that we are imposed by President Trump, which are inconsistent with the deal. If iran chooses a different path, of course we are prepared, we will use the tools that we have to put pressure on iran to make sure that they cannot acquire a bomb, which is a commitment President Biden has made. Keeping doors open for diplomacy, theyre using other tools at our disposal to make sure that iran cannot move towards acquiring a bomb. So that will be our policy, it is our policy, we will work with all our partners to achieve it. We have differences with israel, but we are working with them to make sure our common interests are performed, even if we have this difference in the news about the wisdom of getting back into the jcpoa. But i would not, and im sure you have noted as well, over the past several weeks, we have spent almost every single day, senior, formers, senior officials coming out and saying, including those who were in favor of the decision to withdraw from the deal when it was made in 2018 are now saying today, it was a catastrophic decision. One of the costliest decisions made for israels security, because today, in iran, its only weeks away from having enough material for a bomb, whereas with the jcpoa, they were months and months away from that threshold. So i think that recognition is something which is sobering, we hope others will listen to it as well. So, lets look at it from a slightly different perspective, from the iranian perspective for a moment, they are the other side of this equation. From there and, they have no reason to trust the United States. We tore up the deal, violated the pact by imposing more sanctions against them. We assassinated the top military general. What reason do you think they have to trust us, to believe any deal will even last beyond this administration . If you are iranian, would you trust anything the u. S. Is offering . I will not put myself in those shoes but i will say this, its what we conveyed to them. It is true, in our system, we cannot bind the future president. That is a decision, whoever comes into the oval office in the future will have to make. What would you say is that President Biden has made it clear that he will stand in compliance with the deal. The u. S. Will stand in compliance with the deal, as long as iran is in compliance. He would not be expanding this Political Capital on trying to get back into the deal if the point was then, to leave it. Now, lets get back into the deal as soon as possible, to show that it brings benefits, both to the United States and to iran. And then, trying to build on it to reach other understandings, which make it even stronger, and make it have more bipartisan support, more Regional Support in the middle east. So it never said that the jcpoa is the end of diplomacy. To the contrary, it is a necessary step so that we could lift sanctions, and iran would come back into compliance with its obligations, so we could no longer worry about Irans Nuclear program. But, we should build on it and clearly, that is our view. We think iran should also have an interest in addressing other issues that have not been addressed by the jcpoa. So we cant make a promise that we cant hold. President biden will not make, it i will not make. It we will not tell iran once we get into the deal, no president , future president couldnt do that. We dont intend to irans consistent in compliance with its obligations, and our hope is that we could show that this is a deal that is in our mutual benefit, which is the best way to ensure that it is attainable, to build on it, and strengthen it. Okay, so the iranians, they were in compliance with the deal by everybodys assessment. You suggested the u. S. And iran should both step back into the deal at the same time and go from there. But my question is, the u. S. Left the deal first. Why not be the first to rejoin, to say, we will go back into this deal, no conditions and pick it up from the point where we as a country broke our promises the first time. First of all, the sequence, who exactly goes first and second, i dont know if that is really the issue. If what you are suggesting as the u. S. Should go back in and then hope iran will follow suit, i think the ten months of negotiation proves this is not flipping a light switch. We have different views about what it means for the u. S. To be in compliance. They wanted to lift all of the sanctions that President Trump imposed, and we say some of them, he imposed because of irans behavior, which is nothing to do with the nuclear deal. So those, we intend to maintain, even though the majority would lift. Likewise, we have requirements for what it would mean for iran to come back into compliance with the deal, which we have not yet settled on. So we could take this step and say we are backing in, they would challenge that we are back in, it might not take the steps that arent required. Again, it is complicated, it is one of the legacies we have to get with from our former administration. Its not as easy as some people might think it is, going back in hoping iran will follow suit because, we have to agree, what does it mean for the u. S. To be back in compliance . What does it mean for iran to be back in compliance . Final question, for you, robert. What do you say when people say, why cant we live with a nuclear iran. We live with nuclear countries, they are irrational actor. The u. S. Concludes iran is a rational actor. They are about self preservation. What would you say to someone who says that iran once in a clear weapon, even though they made it clear they do not want it. I understand, it is about trust. But at the same time, why would we not be able to live with a nuclear iran, the same way we live with the nuclear north korea, pakistan or other countries . The notion of a Nuclear Arms Race in a region, a region that has suffered so much instability, and has cost us, the United States in so many ways, i think thats something we should not even contemplate. Iran has shown in this behavior across the region that it has engaged in destabilizing activities, iran armed with a Nuclear Weapon could do even worse. Its a commitment President Biden and former president s have made, they will not allow iran to get a bomb, thats not about to change. All right, rob malley thank you for your time, Special Envoy to iran, special good luck to you and everybody. Coming up, u. S. Officials are pushed further evidence to back their claims about russia and a raid in syria. Lets just say, it did not go so well for them. I will show you why after the break. So well for them so well for them i will their only friend . The open road. I have friends. [ chuckles ] break. Well, he may have friends, but he rides alone. Were literally riding together. He gets touchy when you talk about his lack of friends. Can you help me out here . No matter why you ride, progressive has you covered with protection starting at 79 a year. Well, were new friends. To be fair. Eh, still. 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None of that was true. Just a few days later, the New York Times and other reporters revealed, all ten People Killed in the attack were civilians, including seven children. The pentagon admitted it was wrong. Again, no one was punished for the deadly attack. These kinds of statements that turn out to be false, deeply undermined the credibility of the u. S. Military, and intelligence. That Credibility Gap was in full display on thursday. The u. S. , once again, announced it carried out a special operation, this time, targeting the leader of isis, in syria. They claim he set off an explosive device, that killed himself and civilians around him. But, when reporters asked the white house, and the white house spokesperson, jen psaki, to back up their version of events, jen psaki fired back. Questioning whether skeptics believe the military was, quote, not providing accurate information, and isis is providing a accurate information. Now, nprs white house the u. S. Is not always been straightforward about what happens with civilians. Also, on thursday, the State Department claimed the United States Intelligence Community had shown, or has plans, by russia to use false flag operation videos, or propaganda videos, to fabricate the pretext for an invasion in ukraine. I want you to watch this, watch what happens when spokes for the State Department, ned price, was just simply asked to provide evidence backing up that claim. But what is the evidence . This is crisis actors, this is alex jones territory are getting into. What evidence do you have to support the idea that there is some Propaganda Film in the making . This is derived from information known to the u. S. Government. Intelligence information that we have declassified. Where is it . Where is this information . It is intelligence information that we have declassified. Where is it, wears a deep Classified Information . I just delivered it. No, you made a series of allegations. I would like to see some proof that you can show, matt, you have that shows that the russians are doing this. Ive been doing this for a. Longtime i know, that was my point youve been doing this for quite awhile. You know that when weekly declassify information. We do so in a means protecting sources and methods. I remember a lot of things. Where is the deClassified Information, other than you coming out here and saying . Matt, im sorry that you dont like the format, but its not the format, its the content im sorry that you dont like the content. Im sorry that youre doubting the information thats in the position of the u. S. Government. In both instances, official u. S. Government spokespeople fired back at the reporters for daring to question the official narrative they were given. Even implicitly asking if the journalists were isis propaganda, or even the kremlin. The south familiar to you . Every nation in every region, now is a decision to make either youre with us, or youre with the terrorists. The do you remember, when u. S. Leaders stood in front of the world and spread falsehoods about Weapons Of Mass Destruction in iraq . Remember how the reporters at the time did not question it, even when the u. S. Made up evidence, the media went along with it . Look, i am not here to say the u. S. Is lying about russia, isis as they did in iraq or anywhere else, but i am here because the u. S. Government should provide evidence to back up the claims it is making. And it is the job of the reporters to question, even test the veracity of those claims. Quite frankly, the u. S. Government telling reporters to believe us, will not cut it. In fact, nobodys administration should be taken at face values when it comes to matters of war, International Security or peace. Believe me, i have the evidence to back that statement up. Coming up, President Biden promises federal support to fight rising crime rates in American Cities. Philadelphias top prosecutor joins me, next. Prosecuto prosecuto joins me, what you need, and we gotta do it fast. [limu emu squawks] woo thirtyfour Miles Per Hour [limu emu squawks] hell be back. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. Only pay for what you need. I dont just play someone brainy on tv im an actual neuroscientist. And i love the Science Behind neuriva plus. Unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of Brain Performance. More Brain Performance . Yes, please neuriva. Think bigger. We just moved. So theres millions of dahlias in bloom. Over nine acres. When we started, we grew a quarter of an acre. Now im taking on new projects on the regular. We always dreamed of having this property, so i want to make my yard look as beautiful as butters, here. Butters. How are you doing over there . 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The answer is to come together, police and communities building trust, to make us all safer. The answer is not to defund the police, but to give you the tools, training, and funding to be partners, to be protectors. President biden pledged to new york and the nation at the federal government will step up its efforts to fight gun violence. Yesterday, he spoke alongside new york mayor and former police captain, eric adams. Crimes in the city were up overall, almost 40 compared to the same time last year. Shootings are up by a third compared to last january. The right has latched onto this increase in crime, and the topic gets a lot of attention on fox news, or pundits place the blame on progressive prosecutors, like my next guest. And the defund the police movement, as you heard the president reference, that got traction back in 2020. In reality, fewer than half of the 50 largest cities in this country have cut their Police Budgets, and homicides in new york are actually down. So far this year. By the way, the right wing talking point linking budget cuts to crime lines is an old one, but not one that is backed up by facts, as the New York Times points out for decades, they acknowledged local crime rates cannot be predicted by officer strength, and Police Budgets. In the longer term, many mention access to drug treatment, Mental Health care and even a guaranteed basic income of also been found to reduce crime. Perhaps, with fewer downsides than policing. Clearly, this is a more complex issue than the fox news spark notes portray. Joining me to discuss this and more, Philadelphia District attorney, have become a Progressive Icon for its approach to criminal Justice Reform and prosecution. Thank you so much, larry, so good to see you. I appreciate your time. I want to play some recent sound for you, from new york mayor eric adams on crime in this city, watch this. We need, as i stated, a non 11 Type Response to address the domestic terror that is pervasive in this city and country. You will also enlist every city agency, promoting Public Safety. From sanitation, to housing, to buildings. We will have boots on the ground on every block in the city. So, talking about boots on the ground, comparing an increase on crime to 9 11, sounds like something you might hear on fox news. Do you think that rhetoric from new york to mayor is productive . No, sadly, a man, i think whats happening here is democrats are doing what they often do. Which is, theyre going republican light. Heres the truth, the best way to Public Safety is a Progressive Agenda of investing in prevention, and modern venn shun. That means like, forensics. When you talk about is the same old. Lets have even more cops, lets take more money out of our public schools, out of treatment, out of other things that we know that work. Lets put it into having more cops. Ill tell you whats going on in philly. Whats going on in philly, theyve doubled the Police Budget over eight years, and we now have previously unheard of levels of Police Officers thanking illnesses and staying home. Thats on the answer. The answer here is to rebuild what was dismantled over the last decades by mass incarceration. That means we need to put our money back into public schools, back into treatment and Job Opportunities. Things that actually make a safer. It also means modern science, an emphasis on the more serious crimes. We need to spend our time on homicides, not on yeah, you bring up a really interesting point. Lets dig into that. As somebody whos more attuned to the nuance of this issue, especially in your city of philadelphia. Where do you put the blame for rising crime in American Cities . You outlined a bit on how to actually deal with it, but how do you explain this rising crime in major American Cities . Lets be clear, is the entire country. Its happening in cornfield, is happening in suburbia. The data, when you actually begin shows that the state, meaning more rural areas, are doing worse than, the cities. Thats the data. Thats when it actually says whats happening now, conservatives are doing with they do best, which is the politics of fear, in which they weaponized the genuine pain that people who live in areas of high gun violence are suffering, makes a Stop Attentional whats actually going on. Was actually gone on here, is that the pandemic is shut down both, normal prevention and enforcement, in ways that have never happened before. Thats whats happening in small cities, big cities, rural areas, all over the country. Just look at this one thing, amy, and look at the fact that we have had organized sports shut down, at times, completely. Both, in and out of school. Im 60 years old, thats never happened in my lifetime. When you think the impact that is. Especially when you add in things that close classrooms, no summer camps, wreck centers not open, Job Opportunities gone for young people. This is young people killing young people. Thats whats happening. On the prevention side, weve lost even the minimal prevention we had before. On the enforcement, side at every level, the courts, provision in parole, prosecution, at every level, weve been limited by the pandemic. Do they recognize, this of course not. With a do is come up with factoids, that are actually generally completely false. And they trumpet them. I think the most important point, is why . Why are they doing this . The answer is, this is more coded language. Where theyre trying to do, drive out their White Supremacist supporters. Thats where theyre trying to do. Theyre trying to bring out their trumpy supporters. They dont care about me, as a progressive prosecutor, or kim fox. With they want to do is vilify cities, and at large, black and brown public relations. They want to do it to get their Yahoo Supporters out. The answer cannot be that joe biden and Eric Adams Repeater talking points. The answer has to be, digging in where they should begin. With his massive support, which is exactly why i was reelect with a landslide. That support is for criminal Justice Reform, that focuses on more serious crimes. All right, Philadelphia District returnee, larry krasner. Thank you very, time greatly appreciate your insight. Coming up, Amnesty International is accused of antisemitism for saying the same thing that is really leaders have said. Ill explain that after the break. Break. You could save up to fortyfive percent. man thats a whole lot of discounts. burke well, we offer coverage for a whole lot of things, and you farmers policy perks. kid sup, dad burke seventeencar garage you got there . We are farmers bumpadum, bumbumbumbum some people say if you want to see america, see it on the 4th of july. 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Now, being slammed by some american politicians, as an antisemitic organization. There are more tweets than these that you see on your screen, but are we really surprised that this 280page report researched over years, would be described as antisemitic . Emma watson was laying for merely posting im not here to debate the ridiculous charge that one of the most in the world is suddenly antisemitic, because it as criticize these really government. Look at this, these are just a few examples of the u. S. Government relying, and citing reports from Amnesty International, when it comes to china, iran, and many other topics in regions. I want you to watch this moment. What would State Department, net price, spokesperson, was asked about the disconnect. Why is it that all criticism of israel from these groups is almost always rejected by the u. S. , and yet accepted, welcomed, and endorsed won the criticisms of other countries, notably countries which with you have significant Policy Agreements . Thats a far cry, matt. With a third party report so is just ones criticism of israel that you feel free to disagree . Where have you ever disagreed with an Amnesty International report, or human rights report, on a country such as iran . This is not about any outside work. This is about our vehement disagreement with a certain finding in a report, by an outside lets be real, for a minute, i know that you all will not read the 280page report. But, i did. I want you to know what it says, because what it says is actually more important than who saying it. The report says, point blank, that israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against palestinians, across all areas, under its control. It goes on to say that as a result of israels laws, policies and practices, the Palestinian People have been left fragmented, geographically, and politically frequently impoverished, and in a constant state of fear and insecurity. Now, for years anybody to spend more than five minutes in the occupied palestinian territories, can tell you that what israel was doing on the ground, was, at best, not normal. At worse a, system of segregation based on identity. If youre jewish, youre treated one way, if youre not, you treated in other. As Abraham Gottman pointed out, the palestinian born in how foreign, stateless. A palestinian born in hebron, as israeli resident, noncitizen. But, a jew born in either of these places, is an israeli citizen. How do you call this . But, dont take my word for it. In fact, dont even take Amnesties Word for it. Take israeli officials at their own words. Including Prime Ministers, generals and diplomats. Even israels longest serving Prime Minister declared, israel is not a state for all of its people. Before you tell me israel has positives parliament, let me show you this. This is Jerome Rhodes rebels, the first black man to serve in the u. S. Congress, in 1870. Thats right, a black man serving in a congress in a country where he was treated as a secondclass citizen, by law. It took nearly 100 years before the Voting Rights act was passed, that gave him an millions equal rights on, on paper, let alone practice. Look, we are at a tipping point. For decades, we were told the Israeli Government had to take these practices because it was surrounded by a sea of arabs, bent on destroying it. But, most of the major countries in the arab world, have made peace with israel. Were told these measures were made for security, how is israel made safer by Creating Deferrals for citizenship, based on whether one is a palestinian or jewish . Whatever the reason, whatever the explanation, it is capitalist indians from achieving their full independent rights and freedoms for decades, and now, theres a word for it. Israel International Human rights organizations are now saying would palestinians have been saying for real, israel is committing the crime of apartheid. Israel official means no it, the palestinians certainly know it, and now you, and future generations will not be able to say that you didnt know it. Coming up, the National Republican party has just centered liz cheney, and adam kinzinger. Why . Because youre vest again in january 6th. Thats next. Next. Hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. Oh, we can help with that. Okay, imagine this. Your mover, rob, hes on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. We cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. Yeah i shouldve just led with that. With at t business. You can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone. Woman i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Now, theres skyrizi. With skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months after just two doses. Skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. Nothing is everything. Woman talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. Learn how abbvie could help you save. Ever since liz cheney voted last january to impeach President Trump for inciting the insurrection, the Republican Party tried to knock it down. Four House Republicans voted to take away her leadership position, now the Republican National committee has formally censured her, along with former republican, adam kinzinger. Who also voted to impeach the president. Cheney and kinzinger are also the only republicans on the january six committee. The resolution says, representatives cheney and kinzinger are participating in a democratled persecution of ordinary citizen, engaged in political discourse. Legitimate political discourse. That is certainly a curious way to describe what we saw unfold on january 6th. An attempt to clean up but did not refer to the capitol attack, but then its honestly quite clear what else is referring to. Now the resolution says, they will seize any and all support of them as members of the Republican Party. Not only is a National Party withholding support, but according to the national post, the party is also taking steps to cheneys primary challenger in wyoming. Cheney response to the resolution, calling leaders willing hostages. Adding, im a constitutional conservative, and i do not recognize those in my party who have a band in the constitution, to embrace donald trump. History will be their judge. Donald trump of course lost his party to the white house, and congress, but for some reason, that parties the revolves around trump. Of the ten republicans voted to impeach him, three have decided to not seek reelection, and another, cheney could soon have the full backing of the rnc be opponent. Calling for the lawmakers, ouster from the party. It makes one point perfectly clear, to stay in line with the party. With the Republican Party, in 2022, you have to stop talking about january the 6th. But, there is a glimmer of hope for those who agree with cheney. Cheney just had her best fundraising quarter ever, taking in more than four times wetter primary challenger did. 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Its no secret that joe bidens agenda looks dead in the water, from Voting Rights to build back better, and everything in between. He can get 50 Democratic Senators to support even insanely popular legislations. Progressives are casting about for fresh ideas in fresh faces. Theyre even talking about a primary challenge to biden in 2024. In fact, one of the names in that conversation, may be familiar to you, its Marianne Williamson. The new age writer and lecturer who vaulted to fame with their appearances on over winfrey fro. When she ran for the democratic touting her politics of love, williamson was mocked as loopy, and experienced. The crystals lady, they called her. And to televise debates she actually got attention by going to other candidates fear to tread. We have communities particularly of color, all over this caller who are suffering from environmental injustice. I assure you, i live in rose point. Would happen in flint, it would not have happened in rose point. This is the dark underbelly. I almost wonder why are democrats, who seem to think theres something wrong about using the instruments of government to help people. That is what governments should do. So, what is Marianne Williamson looking for . And what is she offered to americans who seemed burned out on right wing politics, and the democratic establishment . Lucky for us, we gotta ask her. Marianne williamson joins me now. Marianne, its great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for your time. Just last month, you endorsed a Progressive Primary challenger to longtime democratic and when politico raise the subject of you who possibly challenging joe biden in the 2024 democratic primary, you declined to comment. You clearly have issues with the democratic establishment. Tell me a little bit about what role you are looking to play, politically . Well, the role and most want to play politically citizen. As a citizen of this country, obviously im very concerned about the 2020 election. As you said, the president s agenda is not succeeding in high approval ratings, and getting high approval ratings. Its not doing the kind of things that which could, legitimately, be believed to make people want to stand in line for seven or eight hours, as they did before. The president came into office with promises. Promises to help people, promises to lift them out of their misery. That wasnt just a promise, if Profit Congress will allow me to do. It so i think the promises to fulfill the will of the American People, and to help the American People can still be accomplished, even without congressional approval, such things as the Voting Rights act, or such things build back better, if the president will use the power of executive order. He could eradicate that College Loan Debt today. He could get 36 Million People, if you just take 50,000 out of those loan debts, 36 Million People would be on shackled from those debts. They could start businesses, they could own homes. He could use the National Medical emergency to basically give medicare to everybody in america. He can do that tonight. He could declassify marijuana from a schedule one drug. Right now, im just a citizen who wants as any democrat does, and any reasonable person, to forestall the kind of red wave that could be coming out of us in 2022. Because, remember, its not just about a republican win, its about what kinds of republicans stand to win. We have 435 democrats who are running for the house, we have 34 senate races going on in 2022. Those candidates need to be able to say to their constituents, that democrats will help you. Right now, the democrats are not helping people the way we need to. So, i want to get to a few more points really quickly. Youve also argued the democrats, like joe biden, are missing their moment, because theyre too scared of being called socialist. You write that, like, biden fdr got called a socialist, and a destroyer of capitalism, and heard all the same things they say about progressives. The difference, however, roosevelt didnt care. How would you advise democrats to break that cycle . , oh please, dont be was. Roosevelt said, i welcome their hatred. Thats what he said. Trump was a strong man, he was a political strongman. He abused power. That we do not want. But neither do we need a weak president. We need somebody as strong as roosevelt. Apparently, roosevelt would be acting. Roosevelt would be taking what he called, the drastic measures necessary to relieve people of despair, and anxiety in, terms of their health care, in terms of the economy, thats building up into an unsustainable rage. At the democrats do not respond, we will see dark days. I have to ask you really quickly, we have about 20 seconds, have you thought about your political future . Will you be returning and competing in any Political Races . Right now, my heart, my head is on supporting non corporatebacked congressional candidates, who are running in these elections. Thats the election that are most concerned about. On february 16th, i will be joined by crystal ball, and others, in supporting these candidates. Well see what happens after that. So as much of a mystery to me as anyone. Right now, i want to see the democrats do it is necessary to win the house in the senate, in 2022. All right, Marianne Williamson. I look forward to having you back on the show, as things progress. Greatly appreciate your time. That does it for me, for now. But, you can always join us on instagram, twitter and facebook. Also you back here on msnbc tonight, at nine, eastern. Right after the mehdi hasan show. Until then, have a good rest of your day. We we first up on msnbc, critical new details on the growing threat at the Russia Ukraine border. New u. S. Intelligence shows just how close the world could be to a violent conflict that could kill tens of thousands. The russians started this war, invaded ukraine in 2014, and are threatening to do it again. And the ukrainians are defending against the russians, and defending europe. We will talk to a former State Department