Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704

Into custody by the government he tried to overthrow. What weve been fighting for all along is accountability and justice. Several Trump Supporters of being here with signs and flags. There are also a lot of people whove been carrying signs that say things like lockup. Were getting Realtime Information from reporters that are in the medium. Former President Donald Trump is standing facing the judge. He says not guilty. Every bad thing they can get him convicted came out of his mouth. This is a very sad day for america. Donald trump has never respected this country. He said this country was trash and garbage. The filth and the decay. And now he wants to lead it again. None of this is normal. This is our life now. After that i think we need to start tonight with a deep breath. Good evening once again, im stephanie ruhle. Americas 45th president , Donald John Trump returned to washington, d. C. Today as a criminal defendant. Trump appeared in federal court for his third arraignment since april, this time pleading not guilty to seeming to over the 2020 president ial election. This afternoon, trump traveled from his bedminster, new jersey home to the d. C. Courthouse just blocks from the capitals few blocks from the scene of the january 6th riot. Some protesters gathered inside but, they were over numbered by the media. Jack smith was there and seated just ten feet away from the former president. After trump pleaded not guilty, the judge issued what some experts say is a very unusual warning. She reminded trump that it is a crime to try to influence jurors or tampered with witnesses while out on release. Trump then flew back to new jersey right after the hearing but before he left town, he spoke out against the case. This is a very sad day for america. This is a persecution of a political opponent. This was never supposed to happen in america, so if you cant beat him he persecuted or you prosecute them. For factss sake, for the 100th time here on the show, were repeating the truth. Of course, joe biden did beat donald trump fair and square in the last election. That is what this whole thing is about. Trumps next hearing is set for august 28th before a different judge. Hes not required to be there but that is when the judge will set a date for this trial. With that, lets get smart with the help of our Leadoff Panel tonight. Ryan riley, just a departee for nbc news, he was in the corners today. Its not a new book coming out sedition hunters how january 6th broke the Justice System. Carol leonnigs here, Pulitzer Prize Investigative Reporter with the Washington Post. And Christie Greenberg a former federal prosecutor and sdny Division Deputy chief. Mr. Ali, you are in the room so i must start with you. This is the 1079th Doj Case Related To January 6th and its fair to say, very, very few have been acquitted. So how does donald trump fit into all of this . He is about the 100th man whos been charged in the january six. Ive covered a lot of those cases. Its very rare for the fans to be fully quoted. There have been a number of cases including the two biggest cases that involved the proud boys and the oath keepers where defendants were acquitted on individual charges. I think thats going to be a strong argument for the Justice Department to put forward from this point on, because basically its pretty inevitable youre gonna see a filing from the trump folks saying they need a change of venue. They gotta do this summer else, that d. C. s two democratic. What dojs gonna do in order to make any other arguments he made in the january six cases, point to a lot of the outcomes in this trial. They barely educated these cases, when you have jurors swear an oath and say they will follow the facts and they will do that, they can clear biases aside, even though they might not love donald trump or his political beliefs. So i think that will be a strong indicator moving forward. Its something we expect will probably be rejected but it could cause somewhat of a delay in the case. By all indications, it seems the judge really wants to move this forward, both the Magistrate Judge who was referencing what the judge will ultimately take is going to say. They coordinated very closely and we are going to have a date set at that next hearing at the end of the month. Its a pretty quick timeline and they have been very clear, the Justice Department needs to put their proposal within seven days and there needs to be another proposal seven days down the road from the defense. All signs are pointing that they really want to get something on the calendar as soon as possible. Republican senators Lindsey Graham and ted cruz were two of the many voices who are saying this particular judge cannot be fair. The trial must be moved out of d. C. Except of course when this judge was confirmed, she was confirmed unanimously, meaning crews and graham confirmed urine. Former new york prosecutors civil rights eternity irregular on the show, one of our favorite experts charles conan. Charles what is your reaction to the judge hearing the need to warn donald trump against influencing jurors and Witness Tampering . If you ever seen anything like this before . Stephanie, i have not i think thats one of the most unique things about what we are talking about with respect to this arraignment. If your ask me what jumped out of me the most, its literally that. And all of my years as a prosecutor and subsequently defending defendants, i have never heard that any explicit charge or in a diamond, referring to Witness Tampering. The judge actually warned a witness about contacting other witnesses outside of the routine warnings that he might receive from your attorney. That was something that was particularly interesting that i noticed jumped out today at the reporting coming out of the hearings. The notice that this judge would say listen, you should not be having any contact with other witnesses who may be part of this trial other than who your attorneys. I thought that was very telling and very clear that she was in touch with Donald Trumps approach, regarding how hes been trying to influence the public narrative around his various arrests and indictments. Karen, you are outside the courthouse. What we remain takeaways . How eloquently some of the people out side, the photos and the supporters were in describing why they came out that night why, they came to this arraignment. Theres no question about it, weve all said it 1 million times, this isnt an unprecedented event. A former president now charged three different times with various crimes. But this one the most serious. Supporters of his were there to say, hey this is a political attempt on the final 11th hour as he campaigns for reelection to derail his effort, to stop him from returning to the white house. Meanwhile, i spoke with several people who have a Field Democracy is on the line, that they have been essentially waiting for the state with baited breath, for donald trump to be held responsible for what he did in the weeks after basically the election, starting on november 4th, and continuing on until january 6th. He pulled every lever he could in his office to try and stay in that office, to cling to power, and those folks are looking for him to be held responsible for the way he abused that office. Kristie, earlier tonight trump lawyer john lauro took to trumps favorite place cable news, to talk about the case. Watch. This they are attacking other parts of the constitution because they want to take President Trump to trial in a few months. They want to deny him his Sixth Amendment Rights to council, to give me in my cocounsel up an opportunity to prepare. They want to deny President Trumps due process rights, to look at documents, to get witnesses, to use our subpoena power. Hes essentially arguing against the government thats asking for a speedy trial. But there is no proof or evidence that the prosecutors are not giving him anything is there . Nothing is happening. So how is he gonna do that . Hes going to get discover, hes going to have time to review the discovery, hes gonna have time to make his motions. He is trying to argue his case in the court of Public Opinion. Its just nonsense. Everything that he said there has no basis in fact for anything that happened today at this core proceeding. But in some bizarre row world charles, does not make sense . Because the court of Public Opinion is what matters the most to trumps voters. And what he needs more than anything is to get the republic nomination because his ultimate defenses i got to get elected. Youre absolutely right stephanie. There is a strategy here that is important for us to understand. When you look at judge Aileen Cannon and the way that she set him up with the may 20, 2024day. What she basically said to him is i can get you part of the way, but you gotta do the rest yourself. You gotta make sure the year ultimately the republican nominee, because that will give you new life in terms of this Election Tampering Argument hes been trying to make. The same thing is possibly true here. If donald trump can put himself in the position more public the narrative becomes a front runner very clearly, he has a viable or possibly viable argument in front of the court to say, listen the more we continue to press this is im the republican nominee in the front runner, not just during primary season, but during the actual generally election, there may be an argument the he may appeal, after several delays his attorney already talked about the notion of a change of any and how that may be coming. I suspect there will be other legal maneuvers to try to push this thing as far out as they can, so that ultimately they can make the argument that listen, donald trump is the general election nominee for the Republican Party, and therefore they should not go forward at the time. Thats their strategy because legally thats all they have. So i suspect theyre trying to enforce the public narrative, because in a way donald trump has to do his part to try to get him a valuable defense inside the court. We are talking about Aileen Cannon and the maralago course dave ryan. The next hearing for this is august 28th. Our friend Glenn Kirschner who knows the judge, judge chutkan he was overseeing this, when he described as a serious woman who does not play around. What should we expect . Thats right well Luck Of The Draw is that ending up with a judge whose only purpose on Multiplications Granby On what the Justice Departments request on january six, there were multiple cases where the governments at Home Detention is fine, maybe some probation, she said no theres gonna be some incarceration time involved with this. Thats not to say that she hasnt gone in other cases, january six, cases she hasnt from the book at everyone, she just individually looked at these cases altogether. But she takes january 6th extremely seriously. Shes very vocal about that from the bench as our number of other judges who handle these more than 1000 cases a day work their way through the system. At this point basically 300 people have been sentenced to periods of incarceration. As i said over 1000 people have been arrested, but theres a lot more ahead in these cases as well, thats one thing its gonna be very interesting. There will be these other cases that continue to turn to the system, because ultimately the fbi could charge 3000 people. They probably wont get to that number once the statute of limitations expired, but they very well could likely get to 2000 number by 2026. And jan donald trump is another one of these generous six defendants, having their case go through the federal court system here in d. C. What number did you say . 3000 . More than 3000 people could be charged, either people who entered the Capital Building or people who assaulted Law Enforcement officers outside the building. And hundreds have already been arrested and more than 1000 have not yet been charged. They just sort of sitting there on the plate for the fbi to get around two and for prosecutors to end up prosecuting in the end. There are about 1000 who i dont actually cant identify, but the fbi has some of them in their system. Theres basically 1000 cases, double what we have right now, sitting out there. Even if its 1000, so for those of you have Friends And Family saying in a home, like to say january six was just another day, remind them of those big numbers. Carol, donald trump is still the gop front runner. Theyll be out campaigning this weekend. How closely will the prosecutors and the judge be paying attention to what he says and does . I think judge chutkan will actually be watching him very closely, moderating through clerks in other ways. Jack smith and his team will as well. Lets be clear, Donald Trumps mastery of the megaphone is well known. The way that he has convinced so many people including people i interview today outside the courthouse, the way his convince people that there was fraud in this election, that there were somehow mysterious dead people voting and they were flipping for biden instead of for trump, the way he has done is by constantly grabbing that megaphone and reminding them, heres how it really went down you guys. Youre on my side, im on your side. There was fraud. I know who you wanted. They did not give you your president. That is a risk now that he will take to the airwaves, take to his rally stage intel people in some way or some fashion again that they have to quote unquote fight like hell for the country and come to his rescue. In his effort to avoid what he calls a persecution. Fight like hell for our country but remember he is being charged with trying to defraud, you and me. Kristie, i want to share with you something that we heard from fani willis, because we could be seeing a fourth indictment from her out of georgia. Watch this. Are some people who say that there already three indictments against former president. They argue that even if there were crimes committed here in fulton county, a fourth indictment isnt worth all the work that would come of it. To people who say that what would you say . That i took an off and that the oath requires that i follow the law. That if someone broke the law in fulton county, georgia that i have a duty to prosecute. Thats exactly what i plan to do. Would you think well see in the coming weeks . I think youre Gonna See A Sprawling Indictment from fani willis. She sent Target Letters to over a dozen individuals, not just donald trump. Can you remind our audience what that means . A Target Letter is simply her letting that individual know that shes got the goods on them. She has substantial evidence that theyve committed a crime. And you dont send those letters lightly, particularly former president s of the United States and his close allies. She is a rico expert, shes hired a rico expert on her staff, shes been investigating this case for over two and a half years. Expect her to swing for the fences and hit home run with sprawling rico indictment of many individuals, not just donald trump. Does trumps actions in georgia played a role in jack smiths investigation . How much more can we learn from fani willis . I do think that fani williss indictment when it does come down is going to be illuminating on a number of different aspects that we dont currently know about specifically what happened in georgia. I think theres gonna be a lot of overlap in terms of the information that weve seen what is ultimately presented, but i think theres also gonna be introduction of witnesses that we may not necessarily have heard from from jack smiths indictment as of yet. What i see expect we will see is a blending of a complete narrative that actually tells in a much more detailed story with respect to how donald trump violated the law specifically in georgia. Many of the facts will be repeated. We know about the call to secretary of state brad raffensperger, we know many of the other things that were done particularly by the coconspirators that are indemnified in the federal indictment. What we dont know necessarily is how other players may be involved in georgia that jack smith may not necessarily move forward on. We can hear a lot more on that its gonna give us a very robust picture on that that will paint a clear narrative about just how deep this rabbit hole is in georgia. That of course is a separate investigation, because at this point, weve got three criminal trials in this former president is charged with 78 separate counts ryan. Today, in the courthouse a whole group of federal judges showed up just to watch the hearing today. How unusual is . That very strange. This interesting because this hearing itself took place in the chief judges courtroom, even though thats who wasnt overseeing, it was a federal Magistrate Judge who was overseeing this official proceeding. Any reason that was does, because of the Av Capabilities that they have their. They can live stream it to other parts of the courtroom. And that courtroom itself, you had several judges, he had judges go into from what i understand my colleague Glenn Kershner individuals went into those Overflow Rooms themselves. But it was a definitely an interesting day in court. He had some of the these january hearings of the january six defendants durango, including a cop will be prosecuted next week with the sister, who uses the nword in some of his communications about that day or admitted in some of those Communications Going into the capital and photos of himself in the capital and ended up being identified with his sister and subsequently being arrested. A Status Conference or preparation for that trial went forward today. Theres another case that was put on pause, that there was not a hearing that went forward. That was involving an actor from Arrested Development that was arrested in california a little while back. These cases are going to continue to churn and obviously theres a lot of interest in this ongoing proceeding here. Interesting day in court. Historic without a doubt. Ryan riley, carolina, charles conan, Christie Greenberg gray, to see you here at the 11th hour. Hope you come back soon. When we come back were gonna get very serious maybe a little solemn. Some of the officers who defended the Capitol On January 6th, they showed up today. They were sitting there in the courthouse because they wanted to witness forced hand Donald Trumps arraignment. We will be speaking with sergeant aqua lina gonell for what it was like for him in that hearing, and he thinks were getting closer to real accountability. Later, after trumps latest indictment, some republicans are now accusing President Biden of wrongdoing. Weve got two allstar reporters to break through all of that noise and set the record straight. The 11th hour just getting underway on thursday night. On thursday night rsv can be a dangerous virus. [sneeze]. For those 60 and older. Its not just a cold. And if youre 60 or older. You may be at increased risk of hospitalization. [coughing]. From this highly. Contagious virus. Not all dangers come with warning labels. Talk to your pharmacist or doctor. 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But im willing to sacrifice myself to prevent this, the attack from coming in. They were calling us traitors. Even though they were the ones who are committing the treasonous act that day. It was an attempted coup that was happening at the capitol that day. If it had been another country, the u. S. Would have sent help. Two years after that powerful testimony, Sergeant Gonell was in the courthouse today for Donald Trumps arraignment. He released a statement earlier that said in part, this. Our democracy is worth fighting for. Not prosecuting is far riskier and having no consequences for the alleged power grab attempts. Justice and the rule of law must win for our democracy to survive. Id like to welcome former police sgt aquilino gonell. He defended the Capitol On January 6th and resigned from the force because of the injuries he suffered on that day. Hes also the author of the book, american shield, the american sergeant who defended democracy. Sergeant, thank you so much for being here and staying up this late on a day that had to have been very emotional for you. What was it like to be in that courthouse . Thanks for having me. It was very emotional in the way of that it was a sad day for our country, as a solemn moment that it was expected, it needed to be done. We waited for more than two years and a half for this moment, in a way trying to hold those accountable who perpetrated or orchestrated the attack. With the alleged indictment, the indictment the alleged action of the former president s very damning. Most of the witnesses that had been corroborating all of these action or inaction that he did or didnt do had been republicans themselves, people who ease he surrounded himself with as he alleges he knows all the best people. These are the best people testifying against himself. When you resigned from the force, you said you needed time to heal mentally and physically. After seeing the wheels of justice slowly start to move on a day like this, how are you feeling inside . Mentally i have healed a lot. Its like nine days from the time the january six happened until now i have been able to focus on, to heal with the help and support and help of my family, Mental Health therapy, physical therapy. Most of my injuries have healed to the best they can. I still have some medications. I am able to do a lot of things with my left arm, to include now doing physical activities. Something that i was thinking of and would be able to do that again, exercising, which is something that i used to do on a regular basis. Normally i am still distraught. I still have those moral injuries. Because some of the same people i risked my life and my colleagues continue to defend him the indefensible. When you have people, a lot of officials, especially from the republican side, downplaying in minimizing the behavior and the alleged misconduct of the former president and then they tell us they support us, the police officers, or the rule of law, law and order, the black and blue, things like that. And yet they called the people who assaulted us in full uniform and the january 6th even with the American Flag and then they come back and turn around oh, these were peaceful. It was a political discourse. Or these were the patriots. As if we, the police officers, where the bad guys of that day. This time i object we were the authority to, we had the authority to be there, not the rioters themselves. What is your message to those people, those republicans, who downplayed january 6th, who will defend on trump no matter what, even after these extraordinary charges against him . The irony is that they themselves were the target of the mob. I risked my life trying to prevent them and i paid with my body. I paid with my life on the line. And i did lose my life, to some extent, to those people who tried to prevent the former president and his alleged actions on january 6th. I asked them, would they be okay with joe biden, President Joe Biden and Vice Kamala Harris doing the same thing in january 2025 . Would they be okay with the incumbent president right now trying to stay in power . I sink they wouldnt agree with that. I think they would try to impeach him and trying to get justice to hold him accountable. And so do i. My understanding, growing up, being here for more than 30 years, and risking my life defending this country, both overseas and here, is that no one in this country is above the law, and today we were witness to the beginning and hoping that the former president also got his day in court. To me it was a good start. Im glad you got to be there, and i appreciate you joining us tonight, sergeant. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Unity quick commercial break. You can get a drink, hit the restroom, but come right back. Because you need to see this next segment. We are debunking the lies that the farright is trying to tell, comparing President Biden and his son to the former president s criminal charges. When the 11th hour continues. Enhe 11th hour continues d on main streets across the us, youll find pnc bank. Helping businesses both large and small, communities and the people who live and work there grow and thrive. Were proud to call these places home too. Theyre where we put down roots, and where together, we work to help move everyones financial goals forward. Pnc bank. Im currently out of the office. Focusing on a little bluesky thinking. Ill be taking meetings. With family and friends. And checking voicemail. As my activities permit. Ill connect with you. After reconnecting with me. 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And now this third Trump Indictment has started a new wave of whataboutism from the gop. For instance, heres what house gop conference chair Elise Stefanik and say after the indictment. Quote, todays Sham Adornment of donald trump is yet another desperate attempt to distract attention away from the mounting evidence of joe bidens direct involvement in his familys illegal influence peddling scheme, one of the greatest political corruption scandals in history. Okay. I want to be crystal clear. There is absolutely no equivalency here. And if we do not clarify that, we will cede the narrative to those who are lying about it. So were gonna set the record straight. Back with me tonight, peter baker, chief White House Correspondent for the new york times, and philip bump, Washington Post national columnist. Peter, Elise Stefanik says, quote, there is mounting evidence that joe biden was directly involved in illegal peddling scheme. Can you factchecked that for us . Is there any evidence of that . Now. There is not. Not anything that would be convincing. There are some wisps here or there the people are trying to pursue, but the truth is at this point, theres nothing like that. What we see in front of us, you know, can be a scandal, it can be something that should be scrutinized and is in fact being investigated. Whether or not hunter biden traded on his family name, its an important issue. But theres no evidence even if he did, and we dont know, there are still unsettled in terms of a court of law. But even if you did there is no evidence that the Vice President , that his that is his father, when he was Vice President , used the power of his office to do anything to benefit his son, his Business Clients or anything like that. While we dont have a complete picture of what involvement, if any, his father had with his business dealings, the Vice President , now president , said he never spoke with his son about his business dealings. Theres been testimony here that his son put his dad on the phone to kind of impress Business Clients, even if he didnt actually talk about business. Obviously that something people would want to know about. Thats a reasonable thing to look at and make a judgment about. But it doesnt come anywhere close to the thing were talking about when we talk about President Trump. They are really apples and oranges comparison. President trump has been accused of falsifying Business Records in new york in order to cover up hush money to a porn star. He has been accused of jeopardizing National Security with his classified are documents obstructing justice, and now accused of trying to overturn, and none of those things come close to what were talking about hunter biden. But its a useful political argument for the republicans to try and change the subject and shift attention into make of the idea that somehow its a two tiered Justice System that somehow victimizing former President Trump. Republicans are making a lot of claims based on what a man named devon archer, a former associate of hunter biden, said in a closeddoor hearing on the hill. Philip, we had a chance to see the transcript, and we learned a lot. And walk us through this. Based on what we have red, none of what republicans are claiming is true. Petersons arbery was excellent. He articulated distinction between what joe biden has been accused of and what is actually present on the record. So devon archer went to the hill and was grilled by investigators from congress and he made other comments, he revealed this issue about having joe biden being put on speakerphone 100 bidens in business meetings. The challenge that we have, immediately after that hearing, two prominent congressional republicans, jim jordan from ohio and james comer from milwaukee, went on chan hardees Fox News Program and made up false news about where what devin archer said, which is of habit with james comer. But they claim the devon archer had essentially given the game all away, that he had gotten joe biden into rates on this. Those are the exact words, but this was the implication of that. Then we get devin archers testimony. What we see is he says a thing about but he said i had no knowledge of joe biden be involved in this. Isa hunter biden is involved in this. We need to fool him to thinking he sparta. Oh this Phone Conversation Thing is prove that joe biden was involved, but for him to exhort when what devin archer is seeing actually, i didnt see him involved at all, its thoroughly dishonest, and thats the pattern we keep seeing. What do we do is that, peter . Theyre going on National News and absolutely lying when with the transcript basically said was, its a couple of cheesy Business Guys trying to bait and switch. The former Vice President , now president , didnt have anything to do with that. But youve got millions of people watching fox news into your piece circles who are out there going well, trumps a criminal, buying the criminal. And none of the facts are bearing out. At least not at this point. Its exactly what republicans would like to do. By saying everybody does the same saying, the water is muddy here, and so dont pay much attention to this. Obviously these are not the same issues. That should lead hunter biden off the hook if he hadnt been involved in any wrongdoing, the investigators are looking at that. So far the only thing he is charged with our two misdemeanor tax charges, which is gonna plead guilty to once they iron out some legal disputes over the plea agreement, and a gun charge which is going to be dismissed if he goes to the diversion program. But we dont know if its going to be anything else. Again, its still an apples and oranges situation. But its a useful Political Tool for republicans because they can say well, donald trump is being persecuted for his crimes and somehow hunter biden isnt. The differences are remarkable. Under biden is being investigated by a trumpappointed u. S. Attorney, dave weiss was appointed by donald trump, and your binds and ministration, but Justice Department allowed him to keep in the job when they came in while theyre them look like they were trying to get favoritism to the president s son. David weiss is saying no, he has not been interfered with, even though there is grumbling among investigators who feel like he was. That is a different situation with donald trump, where you have three different prosecutions on three serious charges. Hunter biden is not was not and will not be the president the United States where is donald trump wasnt wants to be again. He does not have security clearance, not even close. He is the president s son. Philip, i want you to factcheck Something Else for us. Today i had several gop sources quick to send me New York Post articles, your Post Reporting rightwing media people like Tucker Carlson trying to make a big deal about a letter, a letter that joe biden wrote to an associate of hunters. Can you give us the truth about this famed letter . This letter came in 2011. So 12 years ago. Usually follow President Biden or obama had walked the chinese premier to the white house and biden had engagement with him. Apparently the Devin Archer In hunter biden who were i guess acquaintances, im not sure if they were in business at that point, they had a counter joe biden and joe biden have not said hi to devin archer, and then later biden said sorry i didnt say hi to, you i was busy talking to the chinese delegate. This is one of the fascinating things. The existence of anything that mentions devin archer is immediately seized upon as evidence of some sort of wrongdoing on the part of the bidens. All it is as a letter. If you read the letter you see theres nothing about business. Its obviously to someones his son is acquainted with. Happen to mention china. But in this Tucker Carlson interview of devin are true, theres nothing of substance. People just elevated and say oh look, this exists, and its evidence to my point. So its just read it or watch the interview and see. But people just dont do. That thats part of why this gets distracted. Its also why youre reporting philip, your reporting peter, are so crucially important. Because the truth matters, but only if you hear it. And im so grateful that youre both covering it, because it matters. Coming up, we have seen the facts, but it seems many republicans are tuning out the truth. Is it going to come back to bite them . Well get into all of that when the 11th hour continues. The 11th hour continues. t afford essential School Supplies. 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So lets get into it with Simone Sanders townsend, former spokeswoman for Vice President harris, and former Communications Director for jeb bush. You know the republicans like to call themselves the party of law and order. At this point their front runner had to be told by a judge, do not commit anymore crimes. Republicans are making a choice by standing by this guy. If it backfires in the general election, wont that be on them, an indictment on republicans for choosing him . Yes. I think its line order for the but not for me kind of situation here. Were talking about certain times of criminals talking about law and order, wink wink, i dont think were talking about republican white collar white guys who are trying to do insurrections. Thats not what they mean when they talk about law and order. I think this definitely has ramifications, political consequences. Youre leading republicans talking about defunding the police now, the federal police, the doj, the fbi, wanting to dismantle them. This is the kind of stuff that is playing very well in the republican echo chambers. But it is certainly going to reverberate against them come next fall if they really nominee this guy. Simone, even if Republican Leadership knows in their hearts and minds that it is too risky to back this guy given the legal problems he has ahead of him, are they just trapped . Because donald trump is never going to back out of this race or at the very least, hes never gonna tell his supporters to back anyone but him. So hes got to either be the nominee or hell spoil it for anyone else. I think this is the analysis, but it is the analysis. I think the problem here is that i have never had the privilege of advising republican president ial campaigns, in front of my good friend tim miller here, ive only had previously were for the democrats. But i just want to note that look there was an opportunity long time ago prior to this president ial campaign of Donald Trumps where republicans couldve stood up and taken a stand. The Republican Party leadership, the apparatus, the elected officials, many of the donors, republicans of note, they did not do that. They instead decided to say look, were going to go with our nominee. You know what people say. Republicans fall in line. Cant complain. Well republicans did what they did. They fell in line. They did a lot of things frankly that they wanted out of a trump administration. There were a number of things that no one asked for nor anticipated that also came with it. And i think that was a fundamental issue here, and so now were in a place, collectively, where obviously republicans know that donald trump is not going to be a good general action candidate. Democrats know don trump isnt going to be a good general election candidate. And Everybody Knows that, you know, i think we can agree as americans, insurrection is a good, Thing Overturning the election is not a good thing. If you lost, you lost. But people didnt do that. There should be consequences. But the problem is the people, i many of the people in the republican base, or with President Trump and now the leadership of the apparatus, they cannot turn away. They miss the opportunity. Tim, for years we have been asking, when is the george bush wing of the party going to reclaim it . If they do not do it now and a guy charged with conspiring to defraud the country gets the nomination, is it fair to say your Republican Party aint never coming back . I think it already is not coming back. I think the time to do that was january 7th of 2021. So i have to agree with symone on this. The day they decided not to convict donald trump of the obvious times he committed siccing a crowd on the capitol. He try he caused biden as he tried to cause a coup. And they done that, we would have to worry about all this. We would retire about on trumps court day today. We would be talking about is politics because he would be barred from running. The senate had that power. They didnt do it. I think its over. The people that are gettable from the george w. Bush wing or a Minority Party in many of the rest of us as we have left the party. Wasnt a january 6th or seventh when Lindsey Graham got in front of everybody. He may have been to your field and, said don trump is to blame any pointing the finger at him, blaming him for january six, and then the next day a bunch of Trump Supporters yelled at him in an airport so he said forget it. I still love that guy. And ng i think thats what happened. Symone sanderstownsend, tim miller, thank you so much for closing out the show on this very important night. On that on that note, i wish you all a very good night. 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