Transcripts For MSNBCW Alex 20240704

That visceral experience is thought something anyone forgets. So, you know, keep at it, republicans. Thank you, my friend. And thanks to you at home for joining us this evening. So Donald Trumps fourth criminal indictment, number four, appears to be days away. Nbc news is now reporting that Fulton County District Attorney fani willis is expected to present her case to the grand jury next week. And we know that d. A. Willis has been investigating trumps efforts toti overturn the 2020 election in georgia, and her investigation appears to have quite a bit in common with the federal case being brought by special counsel jack smith in washington, d. C. But the case in georgia may prove to be different from jack myths case in one very meaningful way. That, we need and to go back to 1979 when the City Of Atlanta was experiencing an unprecedented wave of crime. Here was nbc nightly news in august of that year. During the First Six Months of this year crime in atlanta was up 30 . Robbery and aggravated assault were up 70 , and murder was up, too. Atlanta has had 140 homicides, the highest total since 1973. So that was the way the National Media was talking about the City Of Atlanta as the decade closed out in 1979. Here was the headline in the New York Times that very same month. Atlanta fearing for National Reputation mounts urgent fight on crime. That same year the georgia governor sent State Troopers to atlanta after a Wall Street Journal Story suggested that citys crime wave might undermine attempts to draw business to the state. And so State Lawmakers started Passing Toughrs and often very harsh new policies to try and crack down on crime. The next year in 1980 georgia lawmakers decided that one of the ways they could deal with a rise in crime was to adopt a new rico statute. You may have heard the phrase. It refers to the corrupt organizations act, rico. Its a federal law the Department Of Justice use said to go after organized crime. During the 1980s a young u. S. Attorney by the name of Rudy Giuliani was making a b name fo Himself Prosecuting Mafia Members Under Federal Rico laws. Put a pin in that one because were going to come back to rudy and rico Just A Little Bit later. Anyway, down in georgia the rico statute that State Lawmakers were crafting was different than the one giuliani was using to go after mafia dons. Norm i. D. sen the legal scholar told New Yorker Georgia created the rico statute in 1980. At the time georgias predominantly white state Assembly Said it needed the new rico law to address the Increasingth Sophistication of various criminal elements. The increasing sophistication. And so the Georgia Legislature made their rico laws even tougher than the ones the feds were using. They have to show that person is part of a large Criminal Organization that has usually been around for some time. But the Georgia Rico Law is much broader. Prosecutors in georgia dont have to show that someone is part of a large criminal operation. The georgia definition of Criminal Enterprise can encompass a wide range of illegalwi acts to further a sine criminal goal. And that Georgia Rico Law, the one dreamed up by the Tough On Crime Georgia Boys of the legislature, that is the law which d. A. Fani willis now has her disposal to prosecute donald trump and his allies. To prosecute them in a way that no federal prosecutor can, not even special counsel jack smith. Now, we dont know what if any changes or charges d. A. Willis is planning to in her case, but we do have some hints. For instance back at the start of this investigation, d. A. Willis brought in some help. Some help from A Man Named John Floyd who is considered an expert in georgias rico law. She brought in the rico guy so theres that. D. A. Willis has also publicly professed her preference for charging people under rico statutes. Here she was in a Press Conference last year speaking about an unrelated case. Im a fan of rico. Ive told people that. And the reason im a fan of rico is i think jurors are very, very intelligent. They want to know the whole story. They want to know what happened. They want to make an accurate decision about someones life. So rico is a tool that allows a Prosecutors Office and Law Enforcement to tell the whole story. I am a fan of rico. Rico is a tool that allows a Prosecutors Office and Law Enforcement to tell the whole story. Okay now. And it should be noted over the course of her career d. A. Willis has made use of Georgia Rico Laws time and time again. She used rico laws to prosecute atlanta teachers who rigged standardized scores. She used rico to prosecute Hip Hop Artist young thug and associates for their involvement in murder and drug dealing. Shes used rico law in all sorts of way you might not normally think of as racketeering, which begs the question if this Georgia Statute is broad enough to charge all of those different people, what is stopping her from using it against a former president and his allies . Joining me now is michael moore, former u. S. Attorney for the middle district of georgia. Michael, always great to see you. I have many georgia related legal questions. Okay. The first of which is do you think it is a stretch for d. A. Willis to potentially prosecute the former president on Racketeering Charges . Well, im glad to be with you. Its a unique pousture to put the case in. Rico itself you think of a corrupt organization. Well have to see in a forthcoming indictment how she identifies the Trump Campaign or the Republican Party or the state gop. Are we going to now call that sort of en masse a corrupt organization . Soen that will be a different u for the law itself. She can talk about all the dirty laundry and not just maybe the former president s pair of socks or something. She can actually talk about some things other people did and how it tied into this sort of grand scheme for use of various crimes to violate the rico statute, so she can talk about that without having to necessarily charge each individual count. It just lets her talk about, i guess shes almost able to give the jury a whole book as opposed to simply a chapter or a few sentences out of the book and she can talk about the beginnina and the middle and the end and the plot and all the twists and how that plays into her proof of what we call Predicate Acts that would be necessary for her to prove under the statute. So its a unique way to do it. It is generally considered a gift, almost like a conspiracy count for a prosecutor. Its something that it is a gift as you move forward, and well see if she uses it in this case. Yeah, it sounds like its a big bucket for lacke of a more artful term. It she can its not just the call from trump to secretary of state brad raffensperger, its the fake electors plot in georgia, the tampering with Voting Machines in coffey county. Fe its the dismissal of u. S. Attorney d. J. Pock. You just hinted at this in your previous answer, but i would assume the indictment when it comes down is going to be quite illustrative. The special purpose grand jury, that was a very short document. I would assume this Grand Jury Indictment would be something a little more meteor. Is that accurate . I think it likely will. In georgia a criminal indictment in a state court and thats what were talking about, doesnt have to be a long narrative. It can simply list out the offenses the state intends to prove. But i think in this case because of the nature of the case youll see more of a speaking indictment. Also asea she talks more about these Predicate Acts and how theyre approve, conspiracy i think well see as well, shes going to want to go into some detail. You might think of the rico statute like this, too. Its a bit like the twine that pulls and ties the package together. And so she can put it all in the rapid paper, wrap it up in the statute that has a single gift if you will to give the jury. Theres dangers to having a detailed indictment. There could be challenges when there are errors in them and also sets forth the things a prosecutor has toal prove. The danger in having a very detailed indictment is that a Defense Attorney may be able to find one little thing that wasnt quite right and pullon it like a thread and start to unravel the case. And once you create some doubt in a jurors mind, its often hard to go back. So thats why oftentimes you see more abbreviated indictments in cases like you would find in a federal court with thisou or in the state court system. But this is a unique case, and i think shell want to spell out what she was thinking and how sheas arrived ultimately with t charges shes asking the grand jury to consider. We noticed she brought in the rico guy, the guy in georgia known as the rico expert. Thats a man generally named as john floyd. Have you heard tell of john floyd . Is he a known character in Georgiaow Law . And what can you tell us about his skills in terms of rico and painting that narrative going to be so essential to her making the case at least in the court of Public Opinion . I p know john. Hes a good friend. I think hes a good lawyer, certainly a competent lawyer with a very good firm, and im not surprised to seher bring him in and s use him in this way in her investigation. Shes used him before in a rico case, and he is known for being sort of a scholar when it comes to rico charges especially when usedal maybe a bit creatively b prosecutors. Shes put together a good team, a strong team, and were just now sort of trying the team out on thef field, i guess. And well see how things play out once an indictment comes down, which now i think basically is a forgone conclusion. Either that or weve got a lot of Traffic Delays and disruptions around the courthouse because of security. Certainly involving several defendants rollout fairly quickly. Speaking of security, trump has been already directing quite a bit of vitreal towards d. A. Willis. Theres a new ad hes taken out. And bidens newest lackey atlanta d. A. Fani willis, so incompetent on her watch Violent Crimes have exploded. So we can expect more of that i am sure. And i would wonder given all the back and forth over protective order in the federal case in and around trumps efforts to subvert Democracy On January 6th do you think theres going to be a similar battle to protect the discovery of evidence to just effectively curb trumps impulses to target witnesses, prosecutors, judges . I mean how is that going to work out in atlanta . Well, his mouth has been his biggest enemy. You may as well just be pouring gasoline in the engine of the Prosecutors Office in a case like that to run that kind of nonsense out. Its silly. Prosecutors expect it, they expect to be called silly names and it fires them up. It also sometimes causes courts and other things to circle around and protect folks as well. And just think it was a dumb move, and thats the kindest word i can think of to say about it right now. I think he has shown a pattern and his team has shown a pattern of trying to intimidate witnesses. That may very well be an added progression on the b rico statu. If he continues that kind of conduct, you may see a follow up indictment. But we are balancing here the rights of the defendant, a punitive defendant at this point, but a criminal defendant to have a access to information to be able to look at the criminal discovery, to be able to have the documents to be used against him in court, have what the witnesses say and identity of those witnesses and what they expect to testify to, what they testified to in the past, and so a defendant does have those rights, and you couple that with this sort of unique posture were in a plittle season. At the same time trump is attacking and his team is attacking the prosecutors, youve got maybe his republican opponents and rivals who want to take his old job. Theyre attacking him now. Theyre suddenly growing a backbone after several years. Bo they want to come out now and take a shot at it. Youve got the current president who if trump is a nominee is going to be running in a campaign against trump. So hes going to have ads out there. So therell have to be a balancing of trumps right to campaign,mp his right to free speech, his right to political speech, his right to respond to attacks and attack ads that i guess are in the political season. But when you cross over that place where you start the things that jeopardize the safety of th witnesses, that becomes criminal. I dont think the judges down here are going to take kindly to it. I think that ad is definitely over the lineha and we havent even gotten an indictment yet. Michael moore, former u. S. Attorney for the middle district of georgia, always good to see you, sir. Thanks for your time tonight. Always a pleasure. We have lots more ahead tonight including why jack smith may be interested in trumps twitter account. And as prosecutors ask a judge to limit what trump can say publicly about his legal peril, the heavily armed man in utah made threats against prosecutors and political figures, and President Biden is shocked and killed by the fbi. Were going to talk about that next. Stay with us. Were going to talk about that next stay with us goli, taste your goals. So President Biden is in Salt Lake City tonight. Its the final stop of a threestate tour, and it also happens to be bidens first trip to utah since he became president , and early this morning about 45 miles south of Salt Lake City in provo the fbi shot and killed and man who allegedly made numerous violent threats against President Biden and other democratic politicians and public figures. Now, the fbi was attempting to serve Search Warrants and an Arrest Warrant to a suspect identified in charging documents as a man named Craig Robertson who posted these threats to social media. Robertson referenced bidens visit to utah today and said he needed to prepare his gillie suit and sniper rifle. This if you did not know is what a gillie suit looks like. As part of the fbis Investigation Into Robertson which began in march of this year, the agency says it reviewed numerous posts in which robertson threatened violence against government officials. Robertsons alleged threat to manhattan d. A. Alvin bragg called him a political hack linked to george soros and then in gruesome detail it described a plan to assassinate him in a parking garage. He targeted attorney general Letitia James and california governor gavin newsom. Joining me now is frank figliuzzi, former assistant director for Counter Intelligence and Msnbc National Security analyst. Frank, thanks so much for being here. I first i want to get your thoughts. Lets first talk about the mention of soros in here. You saw this a lot in rightwing conspiracy circles. To state the obvious, can you talk about the linkage between whats happening there and how that seating, the most violent corners of the universe and folks like apparently this alleged wouldbe assassin . Sure, if you think youve seen this before its because youfbl. And its a common theme this concept that someone is controlling the globe, controlling elections and politics, and its all bad. Theyre vile. Theyre subhuman, and its also something called stochastic terrorism, which is this concept that some Leader Figure is calling out people as less than human, dehumanizing him, theyre evil, and therefore it becomes much easier for people to respond to that kind of ideology and act out violently. We certainly saw it in large numbers, a thousand arrested already at january 6th. We saw people willing to die including Ashley Babbitt who consumed these trump legal theories wrapped in a Trump Campaign flag as shes Breaching Security at the capitol. We saw it in cincinnati where a man breached security or tried to at a cincinnati field office, ended up dying in a cornfield after hours of standoff. And im afraid this is not any way the end of this but rather just the beginning as we continue to see trump and his Cohorts Making Vile Accusations against people who are now prosecuting trump, whether prosecutors or judges. So theres more of this coming. And Law Enforcements challenge, of course, is to get out in front of it before the really bad thing happens. Well, yeah. I mean tonight on News Max Trump is you use the word dehumanizing, i think thats a great description of what hes trying to do to prosecutors including fani willis and alvin bragg and Letitia James and jack smith. This is what he had to say this evening. And bidens newest lackey, atlanta d. A. Fani willis, so incompetent on her watch Violent Crimes have exploded. This woman is not a capable woman. Jack smith, hes like a deranged individual. Hes a sick puppy. Really striking to me that, you know, on a day where were talking about the fbi having to kill someone who is presumably armed in a conflagration with Law Enforcement as theyre trying to serve Arrest Warrants and Search Warrants because he is fired up about hurting the president of the United States if not actually killing him, that the former president is saying that stuff about Law Enforcement officials. Ive got to wonder from an fbi perspective given the role of doj and prosecuting donald trump and now given the focus of trump on all these prosecutors, how dangerous is it for field agents at this juncture . How does the fbi handle this sort of thing without sort of in turn making these individuals martyrs for a cause . Yeah, alex, the Threat Environment is the highest right now than i can recall during my 25year career at the fbi. The personalization of going after specific agents by name, in fact this individual specified that the agents, the two agents that were actually investigating him launched threats about killing them. And, you know, it illustrates the challenge of trying to get out in front of this problem. Its extremely dangerous right now for federal Law Enforcement. Its going to get worse. Theyve got to get it right every single time. The bad guy only has to get it right once, yet theyre still doing their job. And the irony here is that while a june survey showed that 12 million americans support the concept of acting out violently to restore trump to office, and, you know, seemingly willing to die for trump. The reality is that fbi agents come to work every day putting their life on the line not for trump but for the constitution and their country. Let me ask you, frank, i mean the fbi has been keeping an eye on this individual since march. And, you know, while he had a series of violent posts, in some ways they are something that is not unusual in this day and age. How does the fbi decide, okay, youre someone were going to actually visit physically . Were going to go in with an Arrest Warrant . Is it because he was in utah and the president was going to utah today . I think that was certainly something that prompted the quick action, and in reading the complaint in support of the Arrest Warrant, it does seem like it was thrown together fairly quickly just in terms of some formatting. But rather heres kind of where the line gets crossed. They did pay this guy a visit early on, and lo and behold he actually pretty much threatened them, and he did say, yeah, i did that but some of that was just a dream, so hes trying to play the line there legally. And here comes even more threats against the fbi and biden. And by the way, in there is not only alvin bragg but in the affidavit youll see Kamala Harris is threatened, Merrick Garland is threatened, and by the way democrats generally he specifies in one of his social media posts as targets of violence. So wheres the line . Specificity, time, place, method, all plays into a prosecutors decision to say yes. I think we need to charge this guy. And then a lack of denial saying, no, no, i didnt mean it, i didnt do that and rightfully, correctly, thankfully they sent this s. W. A. T. Team to execute. My understanding preliminary understanding they sent a drone in to try and scout things out and negotiate. Eventually he grabbed a weapon, swung it toward an agent, and that was the end of his day. Wow, what a time we live in. Frank figliuzzi, youre so wise and so knowledgeable with Breaking News Information here. Thank you for your time this evening, frank. Really appreciate it. My pleasure. More ahead tonight including Governor Desantis and his continued purge of State Officials he does not agree with. But first what is jack smith looking for in Donald Trumps twitter account, and why did he have to keep it all a secret . Stay with us. Thats next. We planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. You think those two have any idea . That they can sell their Life Insurance policy for cash . So theyre basically sitting on a goldmine . I dont think they have a clue. Thats crazy well, not everyone knows coventrys helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. Even term policies. I cant believe theyre just sitting up there sitting on all this cash. If you own a Life Insurance policy of 100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. Even a term policy. For cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. 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Ive been seeing maliyah and sasha doing all this. Michelles got three of them. Im excited. They said, mr. President , for Security Reasons theres a great phone, stateoftheart, but it doesnt take pictures, you cant text, the phone doesnt work, you know, you cant play your music on. Its basically like does your 3yearold have one of those play phones . That was former president obama in his last years as president talk about how for Security Reasons he was not allowed to have a normal smart phone. He had to basically have a Toddler Phone with no spotify or anything cool. Now, when Trump Took Office one of the norms he smashed one of them was that he was not going to defer to the Security Protocols that were reserved for president s. Trump would not give up his iphone because he liked tweeting too much. And now it looks like trumps refusal to give up twitter for the sake of national security, well, it looks like that decision may be coming back to haunt him. Today we learned that earlier this year special counsel jack myths office executing a search warrant that forced twitter to turn over everything they had from trumps account realdonald trump. The question now what kind of evidence could mr. Smith get from a search warrant like that and how could he use it . Joining me now is the deputy chief of Southern District of new yorks criminal division. I know you have a theory about what the special counsel is looking for here and what is it . Well, when i was a prosecutor i did many twitter Search Warrants, and among the things i would look for is to be able to show the person who was using the account, sending the tweets from that account was actually the person that i was looking to charge, right, so that it wasnt somebody who may have been authorize or unauthorized to use the account. It was the actual person i was looking for. So here donald trump could potentially say, well, i didnt send that tweet. It was some other aid, dan scavino, right . So they want to be able to say and they have throughout the indictment the defendant tweeted the following. And the fact theyre so Defin Definative about that in in the indictment, they say the defendant tweeted it. It means they know. So how do you know this tweet came from donald trump beyond just the fact its his account . And part of the way you do that as a prosecutor is you look for Location Information. You look for device information. Twitter stores, collects, and uses your precise Location Information unless you disable that setting. And so they can say information like gps really precise Location Information exactly where he was at the time and on the date the tweets were sent. They can also have information about the device that was being used and the i. P. Address, which is like a dichttle address. All of those things are going to let the prosecutors be confident in saying this tweet was tweeted by donald trump. And im assuming that the tweets were talking about include, you know, the tweets that he sent on january 6th as the insurrection is unfolding, most famously at 2 24 p. M. , mike pence didnt have the courage to do what what should have been done, of course big protest on january 6th, be there, be wild. Those seem instrumental in trying to prove not the incitement of insurrection which is not a charge listed in the indictment, but there was a Pressure Campaign on michael pence, which was part of a larger fraud against the United States of america and the sort of foot soldiers of insurrection gathered there by trumps urging were used as effectively a Battering Ram against democracy. Right . Its important i guess youre saying that prosecutors show that it was definitely certainly donald trump who was behind that messaging. 100 . And its interesting that tweet you mentioned about mike pence not having the courage to reject or delay the count, that came after that tweet came after his advisers tell him theres been a riot at the capitol, the capitol has been breached, and he sends it anyway. So that goes towards intent. What is his intent . To delay that certification of the count. And thats the key to the objective of this conspiracy, so that tweet is critical to proving his intent. You said you served lots of twitter Search Warrants, something a newfangled investigative device i was not aware of. There was a back and forth between twitter and the federal government in terms of executing this search warrant, and that was during the period that elon musk was in charge of the company, elon musk is sort of famously sympathetic to donald trump and some of his allies. How unusual is it that there was that sort of resistance on the part of this private company to an order from the court . Incredibly unusual. I mean, criminal defendants when you are investigating them, you dont want to have disclosure of the search warrant to a criminal defendant under investigation. They can destroy evidence. They could flee prosecution. They could let other potential coconspirators know. Any number of reasons why you want to keep that search warrant quiet. Whats interesting about twitters response is they said, okay, we actually agree this is valid search warrant and youre entitled to the information sought to be obtained in the search warrant. We just want to tell donald trump about it. And so were not going to give you the information that we acknowledge youre entitled to under the warrant because we want to fight about whether or not we get to tell him, which is completely absurd. Theyre two very different things. They could have turned over the investigation and let it continue and a First Amendment claim that was completely bogus. I mean i think underneath that is probably a political concern given the fact elon musk has made a name for himself in recent months in terms of protecting and defending the right wing and zealots like donald trump. The reason this had to be kept secret is because prosecutors were worried donald trump would destroy evidence. That was the incredible part about this, that the government was concerned hed destroy evidence and let others connected to this know about it, and that the District Court accepted that and then ruled, yes, you cannot disclose this to the former president of the United States. Its quite an incredible opinion. Baked in the cake is tampering with evidence. Unbelievable. Christy greenberg, thank you for your time and brilliant theories this evening. Still to come this evening what do you do when youre trailing donald trump by Double Digits . You take a page from his play book. Governor ron desantis is trying his hand at youre fired. 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And this plan has a guaranteed Lifetime Rate Lock so your rate can never go up for any reason. So call now for free information and youll also get this free beneficiary planner. And its yours free just for calling. So call now for free information. I am today anuancing the suspension of State Attorney Monique Morel from the Ninth Judicial Circuit Effect immediately. Florida Governor Ron Desantis took some time off the campaign trail today where he is polling at about 16 to suspend another democratically elected State Attorney, Monique Warel. Last year it was Tampa Bay Area State Attorney Governor Desantis suspended that prosecutor for refusing to enforce restrictions on abortion and gender therapy. Perhaps not understanding the irony Governor Desantis accused warren of pushing a political agenda. Like mr. Warren Monique Warel ran as State Attorney on a progressive platform. In 2020 she won 60 of the vote in orange becoming the only black woman to serve as prosecutor in the state of florida. Also like mr. Warren, she pursues criminal Justice Reform to make the justice more equitable, which was the thing that got her fired. Governor desantis flanked by the State Attorney general and the Law Enforcement commissioner today accused her of neglecting her prosecutorial duty by failing to pursue mandatory sentences for criminals. And boy, those optics were not an aforethought. The Orlando Police union has repeatedly criticized her for allegedly being soft on crime. The union recently blamed her for the shooting of two Police Officers by a man who was out on bond for sexual assault. In fact, ms. Morell says much of the information used to build the case against her came from Law Enforcement officials who opposed her because she prosecuted officers including one who shot an unarmed civilian. Ms. Worrell said shell fight in court. Tonight she spoke with my colleague joy reid. All of the blue counties in the state of florida have having their democratically elected officials removed, and that is because this all about politics. He is weaponizing politics so that he can have gains in the polls for his failed president ial campaign. Now, whether or not ousting duly elected prosecutors in democratic counties is a Winning Strategy in a democracy, well, our next guest has something to say about that. Former state prosecutor Andrew Warren who was ousted by Governor Desantis this time last year, he joins me next. Rnor dest year, he joins me next okay, the general gives you a break. Yeah, we let you pick your own due date. Good to know, because this next scene might take a while. For a great low rate, go with the general. Florida Governor Ron Desantis suspended a top County Prosecutor in his state today, and it was not the first time. The same thing happened almost exactly a year ago after the supreme courts Decision Striking down roe v. Wade. When Andrew Warren, an elected State Attorney in Hillsbering County refused to press charges against abortion providers, Governor Desantis suspended warren in august 2022 and made an example of him. And now that the governor has basically done it again this time to State Attorney and democrat monique worrell, we have just the person to talk to about what is happening here. Joining me now is Andrew Warren. Andrew, thank you so much for being here. Im sure you have a lot of thoughts about what is happening, but id ask first do you think the governor was emboldened by what he was able to do to you and effectively turn that into a play book for other democrats working at the state level . Yeah, absolutely, alex. When i was suspended i said that this was going to turn out bad for democracy in the state of florida if we couldnt win in court. And we still have a case pending, but certainly the governor has been emboldened by it. He thinks he can get away with it. Hes broken the law so many times as governor. Hes violated his Oath Of Office to protect the rights of floridians, and he keeps getting away with it, so why would he stop now . Whats striking about this is how little recourse there is to fight the governor on this. Can you talk about the ways in which desantis has populated the institutions that might otherwise hold him accountable with his own allies . Well, the governor has amassed power in a very Eastern European soviet autocratic type of way where the legislature has advocated their responsibility to be an equal branch in government where the courts have been very deferential to the governor who appointed them. But the bottom line is we have a governor who has shown hes willing to abuse his power to violate the law, to break the rule of law to further his own political ambitions. And what you have here is just the latest incident, another example of an unconstitutional and illegal attack on democracy by a small and scared man who is desperate to rescue his flailing president ial campaign. Yeah, it sounds like you think this is directly tied to his hes polling at 16 , being very much eclipsed by donald trump and this is is the response is sort of eviscerate the will of the people at the state level. Why does Florida Stand for this . I mean after you were taken out of office Governor Desantis was reelected by a very healthy margin in florida. I look at what happened in ohio last night, which was a clear sort of referendum on what happens if you try to undermine the will of the voters or threaten their sort of democratic, the ability for them to have a representative democracy. And i wonder why the same sort of lesson doesnt appear to be the same in the state of florida. What is it about his ability to hold onto power in that state . Well, its a really good question. The reality is that our politics nationally and in florida have been so divisive that people fall into this Party Tribalism where they put partisanship over country. And the simple fact is whether its a republican governor suspending a Democratic State attorney or a Democratic State attorney suspending a republican State Attorney, when you have an elected official willing to abuse his or her power to promote their own political agenda, that is something that should send chills down the spine of every single american who believes in the rule of law and our democracy. I am stunned that he is so explicitly autocratic or dictatorial not just in strategy but in language. I mean the way in which desantis kind of crowed about this after suspending you, he bragged he was the only elected official in america to remove a Progressive Soros funded District Attorney. I mean these are autocratic tendencies that hes bragging about. And i wonder what that does to other democrats in the state. Do you have a sense of what the sort of environment is like right now for democrats who are operating at the state level inside florida . Yeah, i mean hes shown that hes willing to punish people who disagree with him, whether its the elected State Attorney, whether its disney, whether its the tampa bay rays, whether its teachers, whether its teachers who want to teach history accurately, this governor has shown he has authoritarian tendencies like you had. And whats crazy about this is you have people willing to support him who are okay what hes doing because theyre like, well, hes on my team and i agree with his policies. Look whereby this is not about left or right. This is not about good policy or bad policy, this is about whats illegal or legal, constitutional or unconstitutional. This is about whats american or in this case very unamerican. Im also struck by the sort of inherently impunitive nature of Everything Desantis does. Its almost in line with the trump threat if you come after me, were coming after you. And you see the sort of cruelty and vindictiveness and punitive nature of everything from arresting felons trying to vote to migrant flights out of the state scrambling people to various points across the United States where they have no resources to this, punishing democrats largely for the crime of being democrats. And that seems to be actually quite central to the republican brand right now, and that is very much what he appears to be running on in a national campaign. Do you have thoughts on that . I mean i do. You hit the nail on its head, right . He has orchestrated these criminal stunts to deport migrants. Hes championed Laws Courts Have Throne out as unconstitutional. Hes flirted with if not violated Campaign Finance laws. And when he stands up and speaks truth has left the building. You referenced himming about my sus pejz. He goes out and brags about what he did conveniently ignoring the fact a court said it was unconstitutional and it violated state and federal law, but he continues to brag about it. He has shown hes willing to say anything and do anything to get elected. And right now when his campaign is floundering, you know, hes being desperate, and his desperation, unfortunately, is jeopardizing our democracy. Andrew warren, thank you so much for your time and thoughts. Appreciate it. Thank you. That is our show for tonight. Way too early with Jonathan Lemire is coming up next. I believe i won that election by many, many votes, many, many Hundreds Of Thousands of votes. Thats what i think. And i expressed that on the phone call and i said i dont know what the number was like 11,000 or something. I said what i need is 1,000 votes, i won this thing by Hundreds Of Thousands of votes. Its my opinion and a strong opinion, and i think its borne out by the facts, and well see that. The fourth case involving donald trump likely to be heard by a grand jury next week as georgia braces for a new indictment in trumps efforts to overturn his election loss. Plus, the former