Jansing reports. Lets get right to it. At this hour, did they plan for that to happen . Stunned reactions on capitol hill, when a key witness called by republicans says the Current Evidence doesnt support impeaching the president. The mattress defense, bob menendez faces his colleagues for the First Time Since allegations of bribes and gold bars. Can he convince any of them that he doesnt need to resign . Trumping the debate, the republican front runner skips the stage and says he could cross names off his vip list. And the candidates spend more time fighting each other than fighting to bridge the gap with donald trump. Our nbc News Reporters are following all of the latest developments. We begin with ken dilanian at the surprise testimony today at the Biden Impeachment Inquiry. What happened . Reporter well, chris, the republican star witness, Constitutional Law Professor jonathan turley, a frequent guest on fox news perhaps didnt deliver the kind of testimony that the republicans were looking for. He was pretty restrained, actually. What he essentially said was theres a lot of smoke here. Theres some troubling conduct by hunter biden. Theres some emails that suggest his father may have been aware of his Business Dealings, but there isnt enough evidence to actually bring articles of impeachment. Take a listen to jonathan turley. The Shortening Intervals between impeachments should be a cause of concern and circumspection for all the members on both sides. This is a question of an Impeachment Inquiry. It is not a vote on articles of impeachment. In fact, i do not believe that the Current Evidence would support articles of impeachment. That is something that an inquiry has to establish. But i also do believe that the house has passed the threshold for an Impeachment Inquiry into the conduct of President Biden. Reporter so what we have seen for the last several hours are the republicans repeating a series of allegations, more than allegations, facts that they have unearthed about Hunter BidensBusiness Dealings over the last several months with subpoenas and other kinds of requests that paint a troubling picture of Hunter Biden Selling what the democrats acknowledge was the illusion of access to his father, but they have presented no hard evidence that suggests that President Biden profited from this in any way. And democrats are growing increasingly frustrated. Take a listen to representative maxwell frost. This Fake Impeachment is based on desperate political calculation, not any evidence. And mr. Chairman, you say this hearing is to establish the basis for this fake sham impeachment hearing, but these witnesses are not giving us any basis or giving us any evidence or any solutions. They are giving us i reclaim my time. I have to stop. Thats not what you just said. These witnesses are not giving any answers, theyre just asking more questions. Reporter and he was making the point that none of the four witnesses there today are fact witnesses. They dont have any original information. Theyre merely commenting on the information unearthed by republicans, and largely what they have said is theres a lot of smoke here and it should be investigated but none of them have said that any of this evidence merits impeaching the president of the United States, chris. Ken dilanian, thank you. Well, for the First Time Since his indictment, senator bob menendez spoke directly to a group of his democratic colleagues today. Nbcs ali vitali is on the hill for us. So a lot of these democrats, and some of them havent called yet for menendezs resignation have said they were waiting to hear from him. What do we know about whats gone on inside that room . Reporter look, you know it had to be a tough room there, chris, because while its not every democratic senator calling for menendezs resignation, it is the large part of that. More than half of the caucus has called for him to step down in the aftermath of this indictment. Menendez, though, is continuing to double down on his stance that hes not going anywhere, that he will beat these charges, and that when its all said done, he will remain the senior senator from new jersey. That seems to be a message thats similar to what we would have expected him to deliver in that room, though in catching up with him in the immediate moments after he exited, he seems to say the message hes brought to colleagues is going to stay for his colleagues alone. This is what our reporting captured. I have for 18 years, and theyll be looking forward to. Reporter that footage from our great Intern Laurie who caught up with the senator as he was leaving that lunch, what he says there is fact and also a subtle threat there. Yes, menendez has been a steady democratic vote, but its also a reference to the extremely tight margins that Senate Democrats have to control the senate chamber. Its a reminder that, yes, they need his vote, even if he were to resign, though, i do think its important for us to keep in mind the democratic governor of new jersey would likely appoint a democrat to fill in seat. Its not like the Balance Of Power would change. Never the less, Menendez Reminding of why they need him, at least while hes still in the building. Ali vitali, thank you for that. President trump meantime skipped last nights debate to make a play for michigans Working Class voters in the middle of an auto strike. Nbcs Maggie Vespa Is Reporting from wayne, michigan, where workers continue to picket outside a ford plant. What are they telling you about the visit by the former president . Reporter yeah, so chris, they say they see some merit in some of the comments that the former president gave at that nonunion autobody plant in detroit. He spoke for an hour to a crowd of 300. It contained some uaw members in the crowd, about a handful of which told our team they are members on strike. The president used the bulk of the time to go after the former president , going after the current president , joe biden, and his push to electric vehicles, which former President Trump says he believes will chill union jobs. The white house has repeatedly refuted that. People on the picket lines, that is a concern for them. Theyre concerned about the longterm job security when it comes to electric vehicles. That is something theyre negotiating with on the big three. We talk about Job Security Stipulations in the contract talks. Thats a lot of what were referring to. We will note, one of a handful of times the president mentioned his gop rival, if we want to call them that, although you pointed out the numbers maybe dont support that label was when he was talking about sort of Potential Job Prospects for those who were on the debate stage across the country. This was a key moment, take a listen. You know, were competing with the job candidates, theyre all running for a job. No, theyre all job candidates. They want to be in the theyll do anything. Secretary of something. They even say vp. Does anybody see any vp in the group . I dont think so. Reporter so there was that moment that as you can imagine didnt resonate with a lot of members on the picket lines, and there was another moment where the president said he, from what he has seen of the picketers, what he heard from the demands, i dont think youre picketing the right things. A lot of members saw merit in the comments about the electric vehicle, and they didnt like the moment they were getting lectured by the former president about their demands, what they were picketing for, and some of them their Strike Platform was being used as a platform for general politics. A lot of people telling us they want to ignore the political circus, and they just want to focus on getting a deal with the big three. Chris. Maggie vespa, thank you. Lets go to california now where the republican candidates not named trump were angling for a breakout moment at the debate. Nbcs dasha burns was following that for us. A couple of candidates werent afraid to attack the former president. By and large that was not the preponderance of them. Reporter Chris Christie went after former President Trump. Thats of course not new. Its a core tenet of his campaign and his message, but also Florida Governor ron desantis took some swings at former President Trump, which is new in that he typically responds with some criticism of former President Trump when asked but doesnt necessarily come out swinging like he did last night. Take a listen and well talk on the other side. The former president , you know, hes missing in action tonight. Hes had a lot to say about that. He should be here explaining his comments to try to say that pro life protections are somehow a terrible thing. I want him to look into the eyes and tell people who have been fighting this fight for a long time. I tell you, donald, i know youre watching. You cant help yourself. I know youre watching, okay, and youre not here tonight. Not because of polls and not because of your indictments, youre not here today because youre afraid of being on the stage and defending your record. Youre ducking these things, and let me tell you whats going to happen, you keep doing that, no one up here is going to donald trump anymore, were going to call you donald duck. Reporter yeah, he definitely had that line in his back pocket, but look, the question for Florida Governor ron desantis, we have been talking, chris, for months that he needs to find his footing when it comes to how hes going to handle trump. He seems to be doing it now. Is it too late. For months now, he has been walking this fine line, trying not to alienate that maga base. Trying to chip away at some of those trump voters. That clearly has not been working. Hes sort of been alienating moderates in the meantime, so now he seems to be changing his strategy a little bit, but, again, is it coming a little too late . Well have to see in the coming weeks and months, chris. Dasha burns, thank you. Insults and infighting at the second gop president ial debate without much talk about a strategy to take on the man who wasnt on the stage. The one question no one wanted to answer when were back in 60 seconds. K in 60 seconds. Megawatts of power, rails and open road, and essential services of every kind. All running on countless invisible networks, making it a prime target for cyberattacks. But the same aipowered security that protects all of google also defends the systems running americas infrastructure. For these services. For the 336 million of us living here. They slept on me for 15 years. Things i collected, pollen, dust, dander. All that time they could have protected me with an allerease mattress protector. It wouldve been soft and blocked 99. 9 of dust, dirt, and allergens. Allerease for a clean, healthy nights sleep. Salonpas, makers of powerful Pain Relief Patches for 89 years. Believes in continuous improvement. Like rounded corners that resist peeling, with an array of active ingredients. And sizes to relieve your pain. Salonpas. Its good medicine. Now to the judgment of the voters to see in the coming days and weeks whether the second gop debate put any of them in a position to really challenge donald trump. The two hours was heavy on personal insults and people talking over each other, and then there was the fight to get the sound bite of the night. I have a radical idea for the Republican Party. We need to win elections. And part of how we win elections is reaching the next generation of Young Americans where they are. This is infuriating because tiktok is one of the most dangerous Social Media Apps that we could have. Yes, it is. And what youve got, honestly every time i hear you, i feel a little bit dumber for what you say. Youre wanting kids to get on this social media thats dangerous for all of us. You were in business with the chinese and gave hunter biden 5 million, we cant trust you. So what did voters think, and where does the race go from here . Lets bring in nbcs shaquille brewster, and mike murphy, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst, and cohost of The Hacks On Tap podcast with david axelrod, good to see you guys. You watched the debate with voters in wisconsin, what was their take away . Yes, these were the same group of voters i talked to after the first debate. It was new faces but selfdescribed conservative voters, all voted for trump in 2020 and said they would support him again. After last nights debate, there was interest in some of the other candidates who were on stage last night. I want you to listen to some of our conversations right after last nights debate. At the very end when dana pe reno asked who youre going to vote off the island, he took control of the situation and turned it around. That showed to me a lot of leadership. I came in like desantis. Vivek ramaswamy and tim scott. Now what are you thinking. The same three. Safety is important to me, abroad and at home. The people i would feel safest with would be desantis, number one, and i would say, i cant believe im saying this but Chris Christie, number two. And then, three, i like doug burgum. There was a lot of frustration over the candidates talking over one another. They couldnt hear what was going on, and they wanted to hear more information and learn more about these candidates. There was also interest in some of the lower polling candidates like Chris Christie and doug burgum, when i asked who won the debate, separate from their personal feelings, who did they believe won the debate, there was no clear answer, chris, and that suggests to me that last nights debate didnt fundamentally shift the dynamics of the race, where they know that the person who wasnt on stage last night is the one whos currently dominating the republican primary. Yeah, and i mentioned this going in, mike. One of the things you want to do is have that moment, right, that gets replayed where, you know, its kind of the moment of the night. Alternatively, there are more cringe worthy moments which arguably folks may have had. In this case, speaking about education, lets listen. When you have the president of the United States sleeping with a member of the Teachers Union, there is no chance that you could take the stranglehold away from the Teachers Union every day. By way of full disclosure, you mentioned the president s situation, my wife isnt a member of the Teachers Union, but i got to admit, ive been sleeping with a teacher for 38 years, and full disclosure. Okay. Mike, im going to let you grade that exchange and the debate as a whole. Well, i dont think former Vice President pence is looking at a big standup career, he ought to stay out of the laugh factory. Theres always one of these things, where adlib or the staff writes a bad joke, christie had a whopper of a bad joke with the donald duck line, the build up was fine. If we step back and look at the debate, a lot of the analysis is missing the point, and i come from the Point Of View of a Campaign Hack actually running these campaigns. Every time donald trump chickens out of a debate, he gives somebody else an opportunity to become a star. In the last debate, it was nikki haley Whose Campaign was in real trouble. Now in private polling, shes moved up to a pretty good second place in iowa and New Hampshire, which is what the campaign is about. You know, these National Polls measure a National Primary that doesnt exist. This is about delegates picked in a series of contests, and donald trump is a lot more vulnerable in the polling in iowa and New Hampshire. At the very beginning f the process for them. It seems like forever to us and other places. The second point is two weeks ago in tallahassee, there was a death watch on Ron Desantiss campaign. He was improved enough last night that i think that will go away and land him in the all important iowa caucus and New Hampshire primaries. While trump is still the favorite, the front runner, theres a lot going on in the early states, and the candidates who are competitive there, i might add, scott, i think he had an okay night, better than before, theyre becoming more competitive. Theres a cbs poll but the clock is ticking, mike, how much time do they have . The primaries were very late. Time is always a resource you cant make more of. But at this time in, say, 2015, my old buddy john mccain was dead in the water at this time before the 2008 contest. Trump did not have a lock at this time. The front runner in iowa was scott walker in the early polls. Primaries moved late. The real season that counts, things really start moving around thanksgiving. Weve got to wait and see, and i think these debates are an opportunity for those contenders to talk to those voters and grow a little bit. And so far thats slowly whats been happening. We heard the first person that shaq played in that little set of clips talk about a moment with a question from dana perino. Let me bring that back, and well talk about it on the other side. None of you have indicated that youre dropping out, so which one of you on stage tonight should be voted off the island . With all due respect, were here, were happy to debate. I think thats disrespectful to my fellow competitors. I vote donald trump off the island right now. What does it tell you, mike, that most of them, with the exception of Chris Christie wont go after their main opponent directly . They can say whatever you think of donald trump, he did some great things as president , but hes got 90 indictments against him. Its a drag on the party. Its time for someone younger, fresher, more electable. Why wont they say that . Well, they should. You know, christie has become very unpopular in the party with the frontal assault, but he kind of had other problems before. The fact is, and i dont know why they dont understand this, you cant beat trump without beating him. Its simple. This is an alpha contest, at the end of it, theres a young lion with a bloody mouth and an old lion walking away. Desantis took his pop at him in a big audience. Its not enough. They have to make the case of me not him. We havent heard that yet, and if we dont hear it in the next debate in miami when the thing starts ramping up as i was explaining before, its a deadly mistake for them. They have to get people to decide, give trump a medal, he was good for the first year, maybe, time to move on, and were just not hearing that argument clearly enough for one of these candidates to win yet. And the clock is ticking. Shaq brewster, mike murphy, thank you both very much. Good to see you. And still ahead, President Biden in arizona and a speech laying out why he believes this is an Infection Point in our history. What else well be watching as he takes the podium this hour. But first, last night at the state departments reception for music diplomacy. Secretary of state Antony Blinken got up on stage and delivered an unexpected rendition of the blues classic hoocie coucie man. Everybody knows ive been got my black cat bones. T bones what was it like before viasat Satellite Internet . Two words not fun. Times up. Sharings caring but now with viasats new plans, we have plenty of internet. For everyone learn more about our plans at viasat. Com are you tired of clean clothes that just dont smell clean . We haDowny Unstopablesrnet. Inwash Scent Boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh waaaay longer than detergent alone. If you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have Downy Unstopables inwash Scent Boosters. vo you were diagnosed with Thyroid Eye Disease a long time ago. And year after year, you weathered the storm and just lived with the damage that was left behind. But even after all this time your Thyroid Eye Disease could still change. Restoration is still possible. Learn how you could give your eyes a fresh start at tedhelp. Com. Dear moms and dads, what you have achieved here today is going to help us and our futures. It is why were coming up on stage to collect your diplomas. Mom, love you always. Vo when you graduate, they graduate. Visit finishyourdiploma. Org to find free and supportive Adult Education centers near you. Today an alarm bell is sounding for President Biden. There is something dangerous happening in america. That line from an early look weve gotten at the speech biden will deliver soon, the president s fourth in a series of speeches in preserving democracy, the first dating back to january 2022 warning of extremist threats. Hell be giving that speech in arizona, not just a critical swing state at the center of so many election conspiracies, but also to honor the legacy of john mccain, the senator who famously put country over politics. The president will be joined by the senators wife, cindy mccain, announcing a library in mccains honor. Joining us now, jim messina, White House DeputyChief Of Staff under president obama and Campaign Manager for obamas 2012 reelection campaign. Always good to see you. I want to start with excerpt. Quote, there is an Extremist Movement that does not share the basic beliefs of our moacy, the maga movement. Were at an Inflection Point in our history, one of those moments that only happens once every few generations where the decisions we make today will determine the course of this country and world for decades to come. How significant do you view this message . Even just take it as a political statement as were heading into 2024. Well, chris, this is joe biden at his absolute best, trying to say to this country, look, wake up. This is a moment where donald trump and his maga extremists are hijacking our country and attempting to thwart democracy. We saw this on january 6th. We see in the absolute denial of the major republican candidates on that stage last night to admit the insurrectionists tried to take over the country. Maga extremists have coopted the Republican Party and the Republican Party of john mccain is now gone, and this is joe biden now saying to his country, this is the moment we all need to stand up, link hands, and come together to save our democracy before its too late, chris he has been talking about this. We pointed out, this is his fourth speech like this, but now theres this new nbc poll that shows republicans have actually a onepoint lead over democrats when youre asked who do you trust more to protect democracy. Now, yeah, thats within the margin of error, but last year democrats held a 7point advantage. Why do you think this message isnt resonating . Well, its one of the many reasons i dont like polls because i think it gives you a snapshot in time, chris, but look, january 6th is now almost 2, 2 1 2 years ago, people start to forget, and to your point, this is the fourth time joe biden has spoken about this. Hes going back and at it over and over again to remind people, and lets remember, he got a lot of grief in the 2022 elections, making a speech like this. People said, oh, he doesnt get it, its not the right time to do this, and it was one of the fundamental issues that helped democrats in the midterm elections by waking up their base to say this is your moment to be heard, and i do think its good politics No Matter What the polls say. The president works with john mccain for i think it was 22 years in the senate. I want to listen to part of the president s eulogy that he gave back then for a man who was his close friend. My names joe biden. Im a democrat. And i love john mccain. The way things have changed so much in america, they look at him as if john came by a different name, they live by a code, an antiquated code where honor, courage, character, integrity, duty, that was obvious how john lived his life. But the truth is johns code was ageless. Is ageless. Talk to me about what you see as the correlation between mccains political legacy, someone able to rise above the madness, and the message biden is trying to bring voters in 2024. And can it resonate . Is it ageless . Or is it antiquated . Its not antiquated. Its not ageless. I mean, it is ageless. Like what americans want is people to put the politics aside and work together. I worked in the United States senate in over a decade, and i used to see john mccain and joe biden sitting in the corner with their arms around each other, talking quietly, trying to figure out the issues of the day, being bipartisan, they were both chair of the Foreign Relations committee at different times. They worked together across party lines, chris, to do whats right, and thats what this country wants, and its what joe biden is going to remind the country today in arizona. Jim messina, its always good to see you. Thank you so much for coming on the show. And still ahead, were live in baltimore with Breaking News on the arrest of a man Police Believe murdered a 26yearold tech ceo. What investigators have said about the suspects allegedly violent past. And whats next for the american soldier now back in the u. S. After months in north korean custody . Youre watching Chris Jansing reports only on msnbc. Msnbc every Physical Exertion seemed to exhaust me. Where i was diagnosed with afib. When i first noticed symptoms, which kept coming and going, i should have gone to the doctor and told them what was happening. Instead, i tried to let it pass. If you experience irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or lightheadedness, you should talk to your doctor. Afib increases the risk of stroke about 5 times i want my experience to help others understand the symptoms of atrial fibrillation. When it comes to your health, this is no time to wait. 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Wayfairs got just what you need what. Yall this is nice. Salad plates . Kelly clarkson . Im fancy now i have always wanted statement lighting. Get nice things at nice prices at wayfair wayfair, youve got just what i need hi, im jason. Ive lost 228 pounds on golo. I dont ever want to go back to wearing a 4xl shirt or not being able to climb up stairs without taking a break. So im committed to golo for life. Baltimore police say they have a violent Repeat Offender behind bars for the murder of a young tech ceo. 26yearold pava lapere had been featured on the 40 under 40 for her work with a Software Start up. She was found dead in her apartment on monday with blunt force injuries. Nbcs ron allen is in baltimore for us. What more do we know about the suspect who is now in custody, ron . Reporter well, hes got a very violent past according to Court Records that weve seen, and we know that he was released from prison on probation and parole back in october, despite being on the Sex Offenders list and pleading guilty to a very violent rape incident. A lot of criticism of that, although it seems to comport with the law here in the state of maryland. We also learned today that police were pursuing him, had him under surveillance, in fact, for a crime that happened, an alleged crime that happened a week before laperes murder, a case involving Attempted Murder and rape and arson. They did not publicize it widely because they thought they were closing in on him, raising questions if the murder could have been prevented if the police had raised the alarm about the suspect being on the loose. They were asked about that at the press conference. Heres some of that exchange. Take a listen. This was a violent rapist who was roaming the streets of baltimore, and the public had no idea. Could this knowledge have prevented pavas death . Im not going to speculate if it could have prevented her death. What i know we did is as soon as we realized that there was a public safety, we had the press conference. The first Incident On Edmondson Avenue was not a random act. We would have put out a flier right away saying this individual was on the loose. Reporter the police said as soon as they put out word that they were looking for billingsley, as they expected, he went underground. He turned off whatever devices they were able to track, and they lost track of him as they expected. Which again, was part of how they defended their action. The bottom line, though, today, prosecutors are vowing to put this individual away for the rest of his life. Hes charged with murder. Hes going to be charged with Attempted Murder, rape and other crimes in connection with other incidents, and theyre still looking back over the past year to see if there are other incidents he can be connected to, and also, as i said earlier, a lot of questions about the system and the process that allows someone on the Sex Offenders list to be able to be released from prison on probation after serving essentially what was half of a 14year sentence, chris. Ron allen, answers that folks still want. Travis king is at a Military Base in texas, set to go Post Isolation Treatment at an Army Medical Center in san antonio. The american soldier landed back in the u. S. Just this morning released by officials after he crossed into north korea without Authorization Back in july. Nbcs Josh Lederman is following the latest on kings return. Josh, what do we know about whats next for travis king . Reporter travis king is said to be in good health and in good spirits at brook Army Medical Center, the same facility where americans Brittney Griner and trevor reid were brought after their release from detention in russia. As you mentioned, hes receiving whats called post isolation support. This is a specific u. S. Military Program Designed to help people who have been held hostage or Prisoners Of War or wrongfully detained around the world, and it is designed to care not only for their Mental Health needs but also their physical health needs, as well as counseling to help them reintegrate into normal life after for what many is a traumatic experience being held in detention overseas. As far as what comes next for this 23yearold private, that remains to be seen. U. S. Officials i have spoken with have said it would be surprising if he did not face some type of Disciplinary Proceedings in the u. S. , given that he was already supposed to face disciplinary hearings in the u. S. When he was supposed to be getting on that flight from south korea back to the uts when he left about six weeks ago and instead crossed into the border in north korea. That action, too, crossing into north korea broke u. S. Laws as well as military regulations. Some officials saying it would send a bad message if he were left off the hook for a multitude of infractions and didnt face proceedings in the u. S. For now, a u. S. Army spokesperson saying their top concern right now is his well being and privacy and that the Chain Of Command will ultimately decide what comes next. Josh lederman, thank you nch. Still ahead, why the judge overseeing trumps federal election trial said shes not going anywhere after a lawyer tried to get her to recuse herself. Youre watching Chris Jansing reports only on msnbc. Watching reports only on msnbc get one 50 off in the subway app today. Now thats a deal worth celebrating. 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Please raise your hand if you believe both hunter and trump should be held accountable for any of the indictments against them if convicted. I want to see whether youd raise your hand. Should hunter and trump be held accountable if theyre found guilty on any of their indictments . Raise your hand if you think that equal justice under the law applies. I think it is worse than embarrassing that republicans wont raise their hands. Were going to keep our eyes on that hearing, and well let you know if anything else comes out of it. Meantime, lets go to the courtrooms. Recusal denied. The judge overseeing former president Donald Trumps federal election interference trial says she will not recuse herself after trumps lawyers claim she was biassed against them. In a strongly worded u. S. District judge Tanya Chutkan said the Commentshe Made At Hearings For Two Other January 6th defendants do not manifest a deep seated prejudice that would make fair possible. Trumps lawyer claimed the judges comments were inherently disqualifying. What do you make of judge chutkans response here . Well, chris, its unsurprising, and to be expected. I didnt think that judge chutkan was going to remove herself from this case, particularly not for any reason related to previous january 6th defendants. I think that people need to understand its very common that judges will deal with issues that are overlapping with cases that they may not have already heard or may end up on their docket at some point, and so this is no surprise that judge chutkan, number one, is being faced with this issue and this question, nor is it a surprise that she responded in the way that she did. Its also important to understand its not a surprise that donald trump and his legal team sought to try to have her removed from this case because this is number of this is among the different legal maneuvers that i initially predicted Donald Trumps team would seek to impose to elongate the trial and move as soon as they could. Did they get that in that regard . They didnt. I dont think they understood or expected that it was going to get further than this. I think theyre filing different motions to try and delay as much as they can to get extensions to try to prolong stuff, but in this case, this was a very simple and straightforward no. They likely knew that it wasnt going to happen. I think that they would have loved to have it deliberated over for a little bit longer and they may file an appeal. I dont think that will be successful, and i also dont think its going to give them the type of delayed period they would like, but again, theyre going to exhaust, as they should, every legal measure on behalf of their client to try and give him as best a shot at avoiding a conviction as possible. The other thing were watching closely here is that she still has to decide whether to grant the governments request to impose at least a limited gag order on trump. What exactly would a gag order mean here . And do you think its going to happen . I do expect that judge chutkan is going to grant in part what the prosecution has asked for. I expect shes going to put some limitations on what donald trump can and cannot say, particularly as it relates to non parties, to witnesses, to anyone connected to the trial that could threaten a fair and impartial notion going forward. Whatever order she issues is going to be tailored to make sure shes aware of the fact that he is a political candidate who is running for president , and so there are going to be things that he can say or should be able to say basically by way of his First Amendment rights, and i dont think shes going to infringe upon that. So ultimately, she will likely grant something that the government has asked for, but its going to be narrowly tailored to make sure it protects the right people, that it protects the integrity of the trial and proceeding without putting a complete bar on what he can say as a candidate whos looking for the republican nomination. And let me ask you about the charges that are still pending in the civil fraud case because new York Attorney general Letitia James and trumps lawyers have released prospective Witness Lists for the trial, which is expected to start on monday. They include trump himself, his children, michael cohn, allen weisselberg, have you taken a look at the list, and what do you make of it . Well, the judge can mandate that notify these individuals takes the stand. What they cant necessarily mandate because we have a constitutionally protected right against selfincrimination is that they answer certain questions that have larger implications. If the prosecution or if the plaintiff in this case because it is a civil case, not a criminal case, if the plaintiff decides to call any of these individuals as witnesses and the judge compels their testimony, that doesnt necessarily mean theyre going to get into a whole bunch of matters that would you willy be used against them in a criminal court of law. Theyre going to have an attorney whos going to advise them if they are compelled to testify by the judge, that they dont have to answer certain questions, and you will see them pleading the fifth in certain cases. It is an interesting witness list, and its important to remember, crist, for all of our viewers out there, just because you have someone on your witness list at trial doesnt mean you are required to call them. However, if you submit your witness list and it does not have a witness on it, it is going to preclude you from being able to call them at trial. Often times, attorneys will make their Witness Lists more inclusive and more exhaustive rather than less just to preserve their rights, even if its not someone they ultimately decide to call at trial. Charles coleman, thank you so much, always good to have you on the show. While the senate has now decided that a more casual dress code is not exactly tailor made for tradition. In a unanimous vote, lawmakers formalized a long standing but previously unofficial requirement that members have to show up to the chamber in, quote, business attire. At the center of the debate, pennsylvania senator john fetterman, who had pressed to wear his signature hoodie and shorts on the hill, fetterman had a one meme response to the vote, well let that picture speak for itself. With just days to go before a possible Government Shutdown, the impact a standstill could have on your money, even if you arent a federal employee. Youre watching Chris Jansing reports only on msnbc. Msnbc tourists tourists that turn into scientists. Tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. That can be analyzed by ai in real time. So researchers can identify which areas are at risk. And help life underwater flourish. man mm, hey, honey. And help life underwater flourish. Looks like my todo list grew. Paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance, hm. I have a few minutes. I can do that now. Oh, that fast . Remember that Colonial Penn ad . I called and i got information. They sent the simple form i need to apply. 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Jimmy carter turns 99 on sunday, but thats the same day as the new fiscal year which means several significant sites in his life, including his boyhood home and farm in plains, georgia, could all be closed on his 99th birthday since theyre operated by the National Parks service. So the festivities are moving up a day. On saturday, the Jimmy Carter Historical Park will display a Birthday Banner with signatures from well wishers, while former white house staffers will gather at carters former high school. The carter center, a nonprofit that will not be affected by the shutdown will offer 0. 99 admission. Now to your pocketbook as millions are bracing on what a shutdown could mean for their wallet. Seema mody is here. Consumers are facing high inflation, what do we know about what the impact a shutdown would have not just on federal employees but americans overall. This just adds to the pain. What we know is that federal workers deemed nonessential would be furloughed. The impact on the employmen story here in america, that will be key. It affects the Military Contractors hired by the federal government would be at risk of not getting paid, and dep on the length of the shutdown, millions of americans may also lose certain benefits, including section 8 housing vouchers, Veterans Benefits and loans secured by small businesses. Overall, ey expects the shutdown to shave 1 10 of a percentage of gdp on a weekly basis. The exact impact on growth depends on how long the shutdown progresses. If a deal is not reached by saturday, the Travel Industry bracing for cancellations and Flight Delays as air Traffic Controllers and tsa agents would not be paid until the shut down ended. Earlier this week in a press conference, transportation secretary Pete Buttigieg calling it a quote particularly bad time nor a Government Shutdown, one of many economic concerns facing this nation as you just pointed out. Seema mody from cnbc. Thank you so much, its good to have you on the show. Thats going to do it for the show this hour. Join us for Chris Jansing reports every weekday from 1 00 to 3 00. Our coverage continues with Katy Tur Reports right now. Good to be with you. Im katy tur. The government shuts down in less than three days, and right now in the house of representatives, theres a flurry of action. Were going on hour five of heated debate with long, fiery speeches telling the American Public that their country is at