It includes the United Kingdom and it includes france to name but 3 the group of experts has recommended that 3rd states prohibit the authorization about transfers and refrain from providing arms to parties to the conflict still its perhaps no surprise that riyadh is a guest of honor at this years d. S. E. I an even less of a surprise that antiwar activists are stepping up that charge the weapons that should be sold at the t. S. A. Arms gear could be used for decades to come in atrocities and looking particularly this angel of destruction of yemen we have to remember that the soviet regime is by far the Worlds Largest buyer if you keep weapons and we know that these are being used to commit atrocities christine atrocity after chastity after atrocity and my traces would not be possible if it were weapons which had been licensed by Boris Johnson and his colleagues but with the weapons market what 14000000000. 00 pounds a year so little control policy to be on the safe side though curiously an experience would correspondence a probably but a cat in the d. S. The dog suffocate ought to. The u. S. Deficit is expected to hit one trillion dollars next year and questions are being raised over how american taxpayer money is being used a new report by a kentucky senator has highlighted some of the more bizarre examples of government spending. Ok you all with me for updates at the top of the. Game and welcome to crossfire for all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle attempting to end one war while avoiding a new one as usual the trump administrations Foreign Policy is unpredictable and even contradictory there are no better examples than afghanistan and iran. Talking some real news im joined by my guest. He is the founder of the center of political strategic analysis dr paul we also have Dimitri Bobbitt she is a political analyst and editor at me internet media project and in london we cross the charles shoe bridge he is a security analyst and a former u. K. Army and counterterrorism Intelligence Officer crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always. Let me go to charles 1st in london while this story with afghanistan and the quote unquote Peace Process is take a very interesting turn from what weve been told leadership members of the taliban were supposed to go to camp david and i guess maybe tie a bow on this again quote unquote Peace Process here i dont buy that story it was on the back of a Taliban Attack in one american was killed and 11 other people were killed thats the story of the last 18 years ok was of the story of the last few days here my supposition is trump got cold feet because he doesnt know where its going to go and its not a political winner for him with this Foreign Policy blob not necessarily with the American People we can get into that go ahead charles whats your take. I think theres something in what you say here i dont think its as it appears certainly i think trump has had misgivings as indeed as a lot of the us we can say Foreign Policy establishment of course trump is sometimes in not sometimes outside of that circle but i think he would share some of the views that hes been strongly pressured particular of the last few days and weeks even in the media a lot especially in the media as a result of. These talks actually approaching even if it wasnt widely known that they would be approaching in this form theres concern of course that if the u. S. Does indeed strike a deal with the taliban and the u. S. Leaves that actually that will return afghanistan to taliban control it seems quite likely that would be the case but thats going to be the case whether america leaves today after 8 if theyd left 91015 years ago and so really i mean trump has got an election remember a manifest a commitment to end the u. S. War in afghanistan its lets think back to a summary of that its cost upwards of 1. 00 trillion dollars over the last 18 years actually i mean even the pentagon puts it at 760000000000. 00 its cost 2. 00 and a half 1000 u. S. Lives another 1000 Coalition Lives not with and of course not to mention of course we will mention but so many wont mention 150000. 00 afghans that have died since the u. S. Became involved and its led to a situation that at this current time the taliban is pretty much more in control of afghanistan that its been any time since 2001 and so really i mean trumps instincts i think as we often see and we often say that trumps instincts are right here but i think that possibly he has seen this attack as an opportunity to perhaps clarify what the american position is going to be you know. This is just delaying the inevitable ok you know we should. I think intelligently. In in 2001 go in destroy al qaeda and get out it was should have been a Police Action a crime was committed then you do Police Action and then you would draw from it the reason why the. Us allies agreed to join this operation but i agree. With that its a big problem for trying because it was during his campaign between 2016 he was against the war in iraq and it was through. This time that you promised a victory so it didnt promise deal with taliban but its obvious that its very interesting if you look what victories does he have ok deemer and i think this is exactly what thinking is is that he didnt he didnt see with what was proposed to him i dont think it was his idea this was a proposal he didnt see a win either way going through with the deal or abandoning it ok hes looking for a better option but for the last 18 years there hasnt been very many good options except for one get out several clearwell its the longest war in American History and let me give you a precise figures even according to wikipedia 2400 American Military deaths almost to solve civilian contractors killed in against this is just americans there were also or there are now or 9000 european allies operating in afghanistan getting killed every day or almost every day you know i especially if youre doing and historians and a lot of its who went there with the soviet troops in the 8 s. Who were stupid enough to go all the 2nd time with nato and the. Reaction from the United States is just hilarious you know mike bell said there it was a success today al qaeda doesnt even amount to a shadow always for myself in afghanistan yet. It was this plays by the so called us who are backstage which is even more dangerous about now we did leave it what come you didnt let 150000 deaths crowd of 1001 so its you know its go back to charles and london charles it seems to me that trumps move is actually a sign of weakness ok because hes showing that the taliban has the initiative and they are calling the shots and theyre calling the time table his reaction you know this could last decades longer was a really a very lame reaction to it because its not a proactive approach in resolving something that he said he wants resolved so i think again weakness out of this white house go ahead charles. Yes and also in the background i think recognizes that his positions week i mean hes so obviously a very transactional personality he sees it in terms of transactions as he sees so much from the security relations and he sees here that if there is a deal to be struck hes got to appear tough not withstanding that actually his position on the ground the u. S. Position on the ground is extremely weak the taliban know that the u. S. Knows that trumps knows that and so therefore pulling out of the last minute its almost as if hes saying ok you need to deliver more in other words stop these attacks on u. S. Troops and coalition and afghan troops if im going to hold a meeting with you but the problem is that of course actually its him that wants the meeting in the white more than more than that the taliban do the taliban know that they its just a matter of time before the Afghan Government force and before the or that they get a deal with the Afghan Government which is very advantageous to the taliban and they know its a matter of time before the u. S. Is going to withdraw and again will return to the steam of the time frame of events and how america sees things in very short termism short term this way not withstanding that this is now 18 years and yet the enemy for the u. S. Is prepared to sit a much longer and ive got a much greater stake in this i mean its their country lets not forget this and the taliban of course and the other point id make very quickly here is that its being said of course yes america ive always said that america when it does leave will reframe the situation to portray it as a victory and we deep weve seen this over the last couple of days as you mentioned its been phrased as well framed as a victory over al qaida i mean pleased to some extent thats true but that was true in too but that was true in 2001 to 2002 theyve been fighting the taliban you know. A little problem for washington. What would happen was a leave. Because look at the other country. It was biggest turn in. Many. Its russian chinese influence so the good direction no with your kish there of course of not good relations with china and with russia so it means as soon as they will leave afghanistan there would have busy been. The sun and it also you know i mean the taliban after all this effort fighting with the member of the i mean karzai yet he said that there is some basis for Islamic State in afghanistan. By the us were by the us so what they want the true the know exactly what theyre doing and that their short term is couldnt agree more well it seems to me that this is about the 2nd part of our program this is about iran they want to have a position inside about gayness i dont quote unquote keep their eyes on a red its always about iran in their region theyre ok again with what the administration is talking about their talking points in the medias reaction to it is really irrelevant to whats going on go ahead name. It its irrelevant but you know the point about the Central Asian states theyre less concerned they american withdrawal than the european states than america already when russia you know if you listen to the statements from the front was because they are. You know they fear americans more than the us because they know that taliban are only strong. Against exactly theyre not drawn in this town at the g. To stand these countries were going to go to charles finish up this part here charles a im old enough to remember i wasnt very old but i was old enough to remember the fall of saigon this is what history is repeating itself here because look the trumping ministration didnt even bring in the Afghan Government into these negotiations ok i mean because and we had a guest on card crosslike a few days ago an afghan himself and he said what we know the government will fail on. Almost immediately after the americans leave that was the 18 Year Investment in afghanistan finish it off go ahead charles yes and of course what trump and the us are trying to avoid is. The scenes of people scrambling on tally corpses and leaving at the last minute which we saw in saigon and i try to avoid that with kabul if the Afghan Government can collapse and the taliban take over with america out of the way then america of course can say listen we invested all of this money all of this blood and treasure into afghanistan just like they said with iraq and then the afghans as they said about iraqis they let us down we gave them every chance to invest in democracy and indeed they defend america. Collapse so in other words its another issue where america is not she created the situation and then when the inevitable consequence follows then blame the local people for it and thats what im trying to do here i suspect 20 seconds go it. Couldnt agree more again to. Find a way. To use a. Cup to go from. Here but no one will ever be held accountable for this 5 2nd statement i just. Meant is it going to be the same with syria the same but you are going to jump in here we go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on real news. The barbarians the vandals on wall street are now plundering your bank account with a negative interest in astronomy Economic Policy theres no economics behind it that would cue to any school of economics that has ever existed as dr michael has said since the bra. As age its just out right very you know. Join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and ill be speaking to guests of the world of politics or business im show business ill see you. Welcome back to cross talk where all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing some real news. Ok i want to go back to charles in london lets switch gears and talk about the ram maximum pressure well its not working very well is it ok and this is been the whole problem with the trumpet ministrations approach specifically. With regards to iran it doesnt ever have any other options in this is whats putting trump in a bind we hes in a bind with afghanistan to buy in with john at a bind in syria. In iran and we do there are there are theres gossip and theres some whispers that trump obviously isnt satisfied with it or let me throw him in venezuela to satisfied with whats going on he was promised all you had to do was put on the sanctions cut off the oil and the whole thing will fall apart will be regime change we all knew that wasnt going to happen trump may seems that trump does want to make some kind of direct contact but for obvious reasons the who amiens have no interest in talking to donald trump about anything because his policy is a failure what do you think charles yes hes trying to i think hes trying to engineer situation similar to what happened with career where. He will put on maximum pressure one way or another particular course economically in the case of iran causing great suffering by all measures amongst ordinary iranian people not necessarily amongst the leadership. In an attempt to turn. Its against the government just as hes done of course in venezuela and at the same time then think that theres going to be some caving in and then some. Big summit that he can then present himself as the peacemaker particular of course with the election coming up but the thing is that hes not in a position to be out to offer anything. Actually even reverse what he or the other what he left talents people like bolton and pence and so on has actually driven and that is that of course this is a policy that isnt driven by american interests this is a policy against iran that is overwhelmingly driven by lobbyists by the Interest Groups not of the United States but of its 2 main allies in that region which is saudi arabia of course israel and therefore its not in americas interests to pursue this policy particular because and i know were going to cover this im sure we will the fact that of course in the same way that american policy towards russia over the last few years has driven. And made the drive towards better relations with china and russia inevitable so thats happening now with iran and of course even the statistics we dont have sound and so on truth got that trump has chosen to place or play this is a 0 sum game in a way with all of the powers or all the same time been perhaps a bit more tactical he would have taken on iran 1st and then look to tackle china in the way that he wants to but no hes decided actually im going to take on the whole world at the same time so much so hes even apart from the u. K. Of course the good old faithful u. K. Hes alienated even most of its european allies as well in the process and so american at the moment largely because of iran stands as isolated as it stood in many many years in the past you know you know we just over the last few days there were high level chinese officials visiting talking about investment buying oil ignoring the american sanctions threats here i mean just like it is charles said you know. By alienating russia for so long russia is. Moved looked towards east to china and now the iranians say we have a partner see the trumpet ministration and the american Foreign Policy establishment in general cant conceive that iran could have friends actually has a lot of friends in the region and further afield and you know it was the motive busy is there anything that the. Washington put on iran and on the Venezuelan Oil gave a 1000000000 profit. Of the same at the same moment so in my opinion there isnt as i pointed out i think that trump wanted to destroy the only diplomatic success of obama. For him and its important if you know what i mean psychologically. And i wont be surprised if maybe in one year someone says before the election it will find maybe the same agreement telling its completely new its a good agreement this time with iran so thats what i hope because as you said. Actually there are some figures the detainees are ready to invest 250000000000 on the iran. They dont care about the washington sanctions. Very much the usa the this ancient regime it least in the United States its slightly different than europe but once you put sanctions on they almost never go away i mean and actually congress mandates that it tice the hand of the president even if he wanted to do that and so again i you know why why should the rainy and speak to the americans now they have nothing after. A week without any threat of sanctions a few ascensions again any country in the world so. Used to that in the know how to react to to cooperate together to what exactly is the us is devaluing its own currency the dollar in the process going well i agree with you. That obviously trumps politician towards iran that was a also about undoing what they only would think that obama did but despite all of that trump is the 1st president in 30 years not to have started a war during his 1st term so far so ok so it just shows you its not because drum for such a nice person is because there is a quarrel there is a call flicked between him and the chorus in between various factions in the Us Administration so it is this the reason why the new war has not started but left me a. Trump that will show us some of his policy towards iraq he said about afghanistan if we wanted to fight a war in afghanistan and win it i could win that war in a week i just dont want to kill 10000000 people and wipe them off the face of the us and after that they criticize the arena and leadership irresponsible statements about destroying the state of israel isnt that a much more rabid threat you know and trump just said that in pasta you know in june this year almost no one noticed and what a lot of people that i dont think people get 0 and want to mention was paid to a nice stupid statement from mark my dean years you know when he threatened israel basically and your world in that mistranslation yes i do it is a that is interesting is that against israel is very much of a crucial statement that the United States will bury you its an ideological inertia from that time so that iranian revolution very few actually and no one believes that iran because iran is the weaker in this. Possible confrontation with these are going to protecting its own here gentlemen i want to talk about another topic before we leave we go back to charles we had a Prisoner Exchange with russia and ukraine with the new president s olinsky in ukraine what is that significance is it a putting a marker down to move forward or. Is it just kind of like putting a flag up the pole and see if anybody salutes go ahead charles. Thats a good way to put it peter of course its possible in a way to be both. What weve got is a situation here i think where again weve often seen in the past not just in ukraine but in other areas careers are perhaps an example of this where once the big powers stay out of things where all the or the west particularly lets say for example when we had the minsk agreements that was largely done at the behest of Russia Ukraine france and germany they excluded for example the u. K. And the u. S. From those negotiations and from that process and a Peace Agreement or cease fire not perfect but one was able to be achieved and weve got a similar situation here where russia and ukraine together have got their differences put aside on this particular issue and have produced some progress which is sunnys producing humanitarian progress i suspect both sides will use this as. A negotiation point they will pretend that they are going to make further concessions but i think both sides particular with the new ukraine process president after hes got a election commitment to this want to put the ukraine situation to bed and resolve it one way or another of course that isnt necessarily what many countries in the west want and some of the Interest Groups within those and were talking about the u. S. For example where there are so many Interest Groups that want to stoke this conflict the arms industry and so on to constantly present russia as a threat and its significant i tell you whats really significant i think because the fact that ukraine one of those people that ukraine sent back to russia the prisoner swap was somebody that the west particularly holland britain america had almost begged ukraine not to send in other words that person that was wanted in connection with the team down of m. H. 17 hours is right and its interesting that all the only groups that object to this progress in relations between russia and ukraine were for 2 european politicians who urged the president not. The. The guy who is accused of being complicit in the an m h 70 into russia well 1st he was not complicit because if he had been ukrainians would have held him and he would be their own witness 2nd he was an old man kidnapped. You know he was good given an injection and kidnapped by the Ukrainian Special forces from his home and then yes he walked. A physical exercise teacher but what is even more important for us russians besides this exchange the other Important News is that america is not given 250000000. 00 water of military equipment to create every dollar of that equipment can kill a ukrainian or a russian citizen any moment because so who is objecting to it you know with the prisoner swap it was the europeans but its now we have basically the Washington Post question in this decision by trump not with great money and saying that 1st mr trump is catering to mr putin and 2nd if youre right. Then the late gen that he isnt tempted to force me to intervene in that 2020 us president ial election by the launch in any investigation of the leading democrat that created it joe biden broadly is that george biden is involved in corruption in ukraine his son became a billionaire or the gas deals in ukraine when mr by that was ordered to be there look at the general we know the steel dossier came from you exactly right you know its about time that your 40 seconds ago it was really interesting the way. Talk about to putin it was like a partner we agree were meant to no agreement we we promised we did it pronouns were important there. I mean. I think its a new step no lets see what would happen because there is. A list. For instance of. Minister for a 30 year it could be dangerous but. I am satisfied i can tell when i get like we do everything starts with one step. Put it its its a its a its a very good news in my opinion and. The russian side on the inside everybody wants such a side and the issue look out what up front its. Hold is probably if he was elected by almost 75 listen its almost people that are in this program on a positive note but we did with you thanks a lot of time we have many thanks to my guests here in moscow and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r. T. C. Unix time and remember. What politicians do. They put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected. So when you want to be president. Some want to. Let you go right to the press this is what. 3 of them cant be good. Im interested always in the water about how. I should. I. I i. I. Know. It. Confirms the peace talks with the taliban have been scrapped after the militant group claimed responsibility for a terrorist attack that left one american soldier. Russian journalist who is part of a historic prisoner swap with ukraine speaks to us about his detention in care. To deny that its a political process and my release and it ended like that because there was a change of government. Just hours to go until it suspended the u. K. Parliament to get one last chance to agree to a general election that follows a disastrous week for the Prime Minister baraks johnson after he lost all