Of the loci on of the editor in chief of russia in Foreign Affairs magazine well its good to see you again thank you very much for taking time to talk to us how low. Do you know the magazine is by the way russia in Global Affairs but that doesnt matter. My and my fault here youre wrong to recently including in doubt very magazine that the main lesson of this pandemic is the unsustainability of unification the attic collapse of these near liberal world view that there is only one right way of organizing or running a society and yet if we look at the way the countrys responded to this pandemic regardless of their political or social organization its pretty its very uniform i mean they pretty much doing the same thing regardless so far you know difference and demographics difference in their Healthcare Systems isnt that a triumph of unification rather than crucial votes in possibility. To think it sort of for adults to go through you know we see the same time trying for globalization. In a way that all of us. In australia is slow and any place in the world basically we are in exactly the same situation and we do same things or rather we are subjected to the same things and we are more united than ever because all of us are following what this happening in other countries so in this regard yes at the same time this is a. Total from mentation of International Landscape because pandemic is a unique kind of calamity when the only way the only possible way to confront it is to isolate one thing to let me take these here are redundant as i heard you see him in many interviews and you say that quarantines and distancing are the only 2 ways and i agree on distancing but when it comes to quarantines this is a very dramatic statement and scientifically if not saddled and all scientists and semiology still arguing about that and i think you know one prove that its actually not the case is the fact that we have humanity have believed to be viruses since the beginning of times and we have remember ever imposed sides measures as such as this one what do you think happened in spring of 2021 that we are ready to go to such extreme lengths virus came to all places including more distant ones. And then mix or. No Infectious Diseases they never reached. Just because not because of the specificity of this wire us but because of. Global communication which is the. Main part of our existence but we have coronaviruses before and it will have them again and i think its pretty clear at this point that comet 19 the facts various populations differently and then well tally to rate of the complications that are so scary i mean its not covered by do that success carry but the complications to it they are very high. Correlate it with the state of Public Health preceding the damage there was a very interesting paper published and allowances and its just that by early may the worlds richest countries accounted for more than 90 percent of data from called it 19 and some of the poorer countries seem to be far less vulnerable to the complications of the mortality rate there is much less even when you count for detesting so i think you know its very clear that these viruses very discriminative about both individuals and how it affects countries and yet the response for this pandemic is again one size fits all and we are on the right size of on the right side of history. And of course a wall of about mentality i think. We should not jump to conclusions because men especially predict that this virus will say go down so to africa to latin america so much less prosperous parceled the world. To have some kind of. A fact of stoneman but it might happen that we will see a much more situation there. This 1st thing 2nd saying. Im not a specialist at all in that in the village of but i guess that. The. Spread of testing is very important and the more you test the higher numbers to get and certainly yes youre right of course that. Health care systems were put in the very difficult position and that the main principle of its a liberal organisation that you dont need to invest too much in how scarce because its not rational so to say its not for them all to mill in terms of. Now money allocation saw that proved to be wrong we see that in them for example in Eastern Europe which is far from the most successful part of European Union for example that situation was and hopefully will remain my better than in a most developed countries maybe because they had not that advanced the medical system but that they still had remnants of mass healthcare and we see this difference especially in cases over u. K. And u. S. Where this very much a liberal approach thats quite obvious and this is a very important factor you mention that. I know that i may be demolished i spoke to one just yesterday from the yellow university and he wasnt debating. The observed case fatality ratio this is the percentage of deaths among confirmed coronavirus patients so it accounts for the testing in western countries that is not try or done in developing countries for example in france is 15. 2 in lets say pakistan of each has also stepped up testing its around 2 percent and some of the indian middle epidemiologist suggest that it may be the exposure to Infectious Diseases that makes population immunity stronger some suggest that its exposure to chronic amid the ball of diseases that are much more prevalent in the west that makes the mortality higher in any case. What troubles me is that the approach that is propagated as is the responsible one is sort of based on the mentality that what worked for the west has to work for the for the rest of the world and that strikes me as not only very western centric but also a new way of sort of. You know i say taking this near liberal dogma at the end of the day because its. Not necessarily that what works with the United States will work of the same way for South African countries i mean even in not only in terms of how but also social consequences its one thing to establish a long down in the United States but Something Else entirely in lets say 7. Subsaharan africa where its not possible to begin with i think the phenomenon we should point out. Universe universality of approach with current and sound well and downs. And some not so mild records of the loss of new liberalism but its just the products all for our Global Communication and. In so intercourse i can understand fully the villagers of the Different Countries because no one 1st of all all of them were forced to be confronted to their own people so in that it may have to respond in sound way i agree with your but exacting the being the actions of neo liberalism is to act on some mystical shared values rather than conditions on the ground you know you know i dont think its about shadwell us at all i think its about its about fear my own governments be to democratic up the retainer and whatever if people in your country is able are able to watch television and come patter what is happening say in the in the in the United States or in china or in south korea and see that. For some reasons a result and number of sin in their own country is worse. They start to blame the government not because of it is but because they believe that the government didnt do its job well and i think this is the main important the most important reason. Now let me ask you about russia which has a long history of sort of jackson positioning itself against the west me and i think russia is responding to this paradigm again pretty much the same way as other western countries despite the fact that we have a different Public Health system much more sort of mass and based Public Health system and billeted for mobilizing is mobilizing medical professionals is higher and riyadh delong downs a streak we are have the same or rather a court lets save. Our people. All like spans you know really choosing people over the economy even though thats not exactly chile thats a typical trash problem and they are choosing people over people and there are lots of reports in most grandmother cities of people dying from mum called it 90 conditions why do you think russia found the need to be so much in this common trend with everybody else. I think that russia is not that much different from the rest of the world i think this idea that russia always. Is about to go its own way and simply. Invented so russia is an integral part of International Trans and Global Trends and russian government whatever they think and certainly there are discussions there as well about how to confront. In the in a better way but to just these regards this way fulfill aspiration that any government should do every. Saying to save as many lives as possible thats not thats not possible here either so russia in this regard is very much like on the continent wishing the chinese the same and many on the singapore is the same so thats not about liberalism again im sorry but its about the. Suddenly as as a result of Human Development developing a human cry now to. Openly prefer it can only through 4 months all work human life even if we believe that this is a little bit of a slogan but its impossible and. Ok kyra lets take a very short break now but we will be back to this fascinating conversation in just a few moments stay tuned. For. You cannot be blown with yeah you really. Are an. Problem drugs dont always come from unscrupulous dealers but from pharmacies to every state in the United States weve seen very sharp increase in the number of people seeking treatment for addiction to prescription opioids and invited america under the banner of medicine persisted with the pain but instead of trying to wean him off though she just goes after dose after dose if your dose and really became his drug dealer who is to blame patients doctors manufacturers. Welcome back to worlds apart from its going to look again at the editor in chief of russia in global Affairs Magazine theres just before the break we were talking about the Global Response to the call that 900 from demick which in my humble opinion represent the triumph of neo liberalism though not in yours but i definitely agree with you that it may be the last nail in the coffin of neo liberalism as a normative regime to aspire its you and you have spoken about it losing its. Appeal its more like authority and i think you go as far as to say that it has actually lost its meaning the old dichotomy between democracies and i talk raceys is no longer valid. Dichotomy is no longer a value the difference of course is value. And. No doubt that Different Countries and different nations will have a. Different system of governance but what you mention a couple of times this idea about right side of history this is this appearing hopeful that because that was for so well there are strange and stupid idea history has no sides history is a new phenomenon which includes every think it includes we saw that just see profound. Decline of new liberal you universalism years ago and of course what happened in the main of the is the case with. Protestant gains this universalism. Coming cannot from the 3rd to or not from developing world but from the inside region then there is in the region yes Ronnie Knight estates and greens United Kingdom that was i think the turning point but of course if it started even before now after after this pandemic even the ideological framework will be. There will be weakened very much it does not mean that neoliberal a the this a fear of speaking of. The notion of freedom it was functional to both your liberalism and be jel politics of the last 70 years and im very interested to know why do you think it will happen to notion of free there once to be a relief prong and the flow down that are supposed to be our role in charity but actually im not yeah thats. Interesting. To certain extent find a phenomenon that we see. That the line between supposedly supposedly the macwrite thickens authoritarian society this is this appearing and the last measure a switch china was harshly criticize for and now they are being applied to in the United States or in europe. And thats very paradoxical and. Strange but maybe logical that all those. Antigay utopian pictures we surely remember from. George orwell and other rights us on the 1st half was meant a century and they subscribed to terra regimes and they suddenly come from a completely different thing but at the same time its not the source and sign of that you for remember whats happened to almost 20 years ago after 911 in the United States when people started to ask for more control because they wanted to feel safe and they were ready to to. Get to read the parts of their freedoms that was the beginning and that never stopped after that now is the next level because people are really interested to. Be safe and also in terms of their so to say their body is their health i thing in the post called it 19 era ideological battles will be awaits not around the term freedom but the term progress because that comment 19 on some many levels is a child of globalised capitalism and i think the irony of it and im absolutely convinced that there is scientific basis for me saying that the most damning ethical in 1000 has is on the countries that considered themselves to be the bearers of progress take the United States for example it spends more than any other country on Public Health it is. As a one of the sickest populations in the world and thats why its mortality rate from commitment is so high its ultimately very much linked to the Metabolic Diseases and i wonder how do you think this discussion about progress is going to be shaping out in the next couple of. Areas and maybe day kids because it seems that the further you can write indigos in the direction of progress then nor did generated it is on a visit to a level its almost against Human Evolution to go that way. So the theory on the concept of progress is a very complicated and of course there are there is a the there is a difference between so to say Public Perception and i would say for a pug on the perception of progress and the center sick notion of role its. Certainly a we are entering a completely new stage in how to assess. Not just the progress but needs also to humankind i think we. Already passed the peak of this willingness to be most global and most open. As open as possible. However we assess this virus if my daily bit exaggerated or not but the implications will be very long lasting because i think many people in the world even after this pandemic will start to think whether they really need to travel that mosque and go that far at the same time of course progress in terms of developments there elop in the acknowledges they can the development of communication i dont think it can be solved and so this this controller said this contradiction between safe life and progress well. Share pun but it will not disappear well but you know it has a very interesting implication of the notion of market economy because i mean there its you mean pilin is that of a liberal democracy 1st like Political Organization and market economy and. And this point of time neo liberalism and im still convinced and demands the altimeters safety for the population youre 21 lives about Everything Else but it ends up undermining the very killer of market economy because i think on the 1000 essentially renders property to write a relevant whats the point of investing into anything when the government can come up tomorrow and tell you to close your business i mean these kind of risk it never existent before and it was created precisely because we brought the value of human life so high that it trumps all the material values reach makes the whole system in my view totally unsustainable the question is what can possibly replace it this is a discussion about consumption because the whole of all capitalism since quite a long while maybe here made going to century was based on their idea of ever increasing consumption which was seen as something. Basically positive yes we had. With criticism and the knowledge and so far a left wing. Driven party is in the United States and in western europe but it never challenge to the very idea they just wanted to make consumption a little bit less harmful to nature not you know well not much more now i think we will face a serious debate about the nature of global capitalism and in this regard i can expect. New ideological new divides and struggles to emerge because after what was the triumphal far and near liberalism we should mention that there was a perception that after collapse of the soviet union and soviet model of communism no. Alternatives will come again or never again but now we see that as left socialist idea was heavily discredited by the soviet union the liberal idea was ahead of this by d whats happened thus the cost of the soviet union so i think that in one way or another form we will see a revival of those say the illogical but also youre also talking about their rivalry between china and the United States that is going to accelerate and they called it in postcollege 1000 iraq and war all be over if they were rhetorical differences between the washington and beijing then all really that different in terms of doing business and running the economy is right running best societies maybe even though im not totally convinced that the difference is that huge but when it comes to doing business that pretty much simon is twins theyre fighting for a bigger pie bigger piece of the same pride and not fighting over the rest. Can the rules of the game be really change when you have the 2 main players really wanting more of the same rather than something different. Youre absolutely right rules of the game will. Constant change the problem is that they might disappear because. Im really convinced that we are approaching a very severe confrontation between here and between china and United States it can be compared to the cold war only in one that mentioned. The intensity of this mutual these like but when it but all the rest will be different because as you rightly pointed out there is no ideological difference between the tran and United States they operate in the same are a dime of the global capitalism unlike soviet union and United States of 40 or 50 years ago which had maybe wrong but completely different. Perceptions or way of life how to live how to build society and thats why i believe that this confrontation in my turn even more dangerous i mean that youre in china and United States because to certain extent ideological battle maint the premiss confrontation eliminate more structure and thats forced parts to a lot more rates on the rules old behavior also the good now and im so sorry to remember my. My status in the soviet union and when we were forced to learn marxism leninism but some of those pieces are still. Relevant so the millennial space about imperialism as a high stage or ethical as when he described the reasons why 1st world war erupted i think its very its very big a risk that confrontation between the United States and china will lead us to something play that free world war one atmosphere this is not about ideology that was a dog breed. I mean this. Mentioned a couple of words and let me. Bring to attention one more conflict that is the american war for the patents from the british which was also spurred by the disagreements over money over taxes now the americans prevailed and ultimately to the mantle of globality a ship from the british and its strange started but i one day will be signed now im american clash is not so much about an absent mobile had germany but about who gets to be the new. East china really an adversary to the western world rather than its natural successor its natural heir. Yes exactly and im sure the chinese actually would prefer not to be engaged in this struggle but unfortunately the theory of International Relations teaches us that as long as the he. Has no real contenders its possible to more or less successfully regulate this is by the way some of the followers rises to the level to be real would be possible to challenge their heads in that matter believe it will be struggle between them and we dont see we dont know any exemptions from this rule. Well im not very party different ill be have to leave it there and i thank you very much for your insight thank you and thank you for watching hope to syria again next week on a world apart. International memorial awards are now open for entries. Media professionals are eligible whether you are a freelance journalist terms of media or part of a global News Platform to participate published works in video or written for. Go to award dot altie dot com and enter now. So what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have its crazy confrontation let it be an arms race on all fronts. Hearing Dramatic Development only personally im going to resist i dont see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk