Constant. Hello and welcome across town where all things are considered computer all about conservative media to almost the political left in the United States has become radicalized so let the job i assure in an era of socialism profoundly changing the country on the other hand by many and use orbits claim nothing will fundamentally change so is it or is it as always just about power. To discuss this and more im joined by my guest laura fink in san diego she is the founder and c. E. O. Of rebel communications as well as a democratic strategist and in Ellicott City we cross to Jason Nichols he is a political analyst as well as a senior lecturer in the africanamerican studies department at the university of maryland right across not rules in effect that means you can jump anytime you want and i always appreciate it as good as any angle are you that i always go to the person that gets up early for the program so im glad its you you know im a political junkie like that will have you i watch a lot of Different Things i disagree with most of it agree with a tiny bit of it but if you you know if were in this election cycle lets take for example fox ok the impending dystopia if joe biden is going to be elected now i think that things could change when you look at the people around him but you have to be very starkly different interpretations of fundamental change of change in the country and nothing will fundamentally change how do you see things playing out go ahead well i do go on fox news occasionally i understand the culture there and but they and the fox news is about asserting a narrative as well as reporting a narrative and so the that is part of their culture to say to stir discomfort in the right and make them feel like theyre under threat and so i can understand with the rise of the progressive laughed and some of the ideals of the Progressive Left whether youre talking about medicare for all or youre talking about the Green New Deal that they want to because they disagree with those policies they want to demonize that that and talk about it as an as if its extreme also you know this is we are not action here and so talkin socialism will rise and so its uganda im as frightened channels that the goal really is to stir up the base and to instill us here on the rising left now that sad absolutely. Leftist on the rise and and the political left has gone and galvanize like never before in the age of donald trump so we see not just ideals move forward and public conversation and opinion moving to the last but we also see firebrand leaders like alexandria ocasio kirk has anything like Bernie Sanders that are able to carry that with a new generation of voters and isnt same question you know it was an excellent answer more about him yeah i think well as far as dystopian outcomes from leadership i dont think we can get any more dystopian than we are right now i think were in a very precarious situation as a nation and. I want to get that done in terms of all. I think a lot of it is i think you always should point to the top and look at leadership when your leadership fails then the country fails and then the country needs torn apart were divided were not the United States of america and that all that ultimately falls on in the lap of the leader and our leader right now is donald trump and he has not done what we look for the leadership he has not accomplished what most leaders want to do which is to actually unite the people behind a common cause not unite half of the country behind one person i think that when we look at some of the narratives that weve seen in media i think laura had a correct that you know there is a an objective for one side or the other whether its fox or imus n. B. C. Or some of the Smaller Networks they all have a narrative that they want to tell and that they want to show and and you know we can talk about the political left but i think its a very good time where youve got someone like joe biden who has been moderate you know perhaps. Because laura i mean it may be its a big tension right now i mean and its the thing is i look at it is that its really has very little were going to talk about policies that. Its very little to do with policy it has everything to do with dumbell from this is a referendum on his presidency its not really on the policy though if joe biden comes in its not could it be easy street for the Democratic Party and its rough relationship with its progressive members right here so the united tend narrow because of you know donald trump your reaction well weve had donald trump for a long time and we havent had a united 10 i mean we go all the way back to 2016 so its not i would say that certainly donald trump is a galvanizing force but it also it is it is it is not only the institutional leaders like joe biden that have a long history and record of experience in the Democratic Party but its also the willingness of the political left to play ball and we see that again with alexandria cost you as though being for palosi as speaker coming in and working within the system i mean i think that thats about understanding our to your earlier point here she understands power fundamentally at with that she 29 years old and has learned that she can galvanize her or her community outside of the halls of congress and then use the power of their power to bring it to the halls of congress in the halls of power in a different way than media activists might expect the power of the political left is on the rise but lets not forget i mean in 20 team we won with the moderates so the democrats marched and took over the congress with moderates and mostly moderate women so i do believe that fundamentally theres some political gravity in congress that wont change however the needle is moving you know when joe biden is having weekly conversations that the list gets war and about how to execute policy then that is a sea change from you know his days with the each neoconservatives on his sort of intellectual squat you mentally the American People have moved and the politicians have moved with you and also you think theyre really conversations ive seen some of them not really conversations but anyway thats a subject for another program and jason i know that because youre a frequent guest on this program are very grateful but you were Bernie Sanders supporter. Do you have if the is there a burning feeling in your stomach you must vote for joe because of donald trump not because you love joe. Well i think thats how politics work i think we 4 you know we take the options that we have and we vote for the person that we think will do the job better in this case it is joe biden when i look at him and donald trump you know politicians or the candidates that we have available which one is i think the stronger leader and which one is better versed in Foreign Policy which one will do better with domestic policy and which one is interested in are more interested in the issues that i think are important for the American People and right now i think thats joe biden now joe biden were running against someone else i think it would be different and i want to be clear when i said big tent i didnt say united 10 were not always united and i think one of the things that is and i think thats actually a good thing i think one of the things that laura pointed out is the fact that there are conversations and i think what joe biden is doing correctly right now is that he is making it clear that the Progressive Left will at least be listened to and that theyll be part of the conversation now going to be able not necessarily that hes going to repeat them all the time its not enough for you to be listening to you i mean after you are you still willing to just be you know you look except being listened to when im not trying to be you know a dictator the party yeah or of the United States i want to be part of the conversation i want to be heard and you know i want for it to be a star i want to affect change i cant go along and say that everything i want should happen right now i think that you try to push for those things which you also have to work within the structures that exist and i think thats what its about for a long time people like joe biden actually have ignored young voters theyve ignored the Progressive Left and theyve even made fun of them at times and now. They realize that this is a Political Force that is growing and they could not be donald trump or anyone else without having them at the table and so now hes willing to talk hes going to make concessions which is the right thing to do i think that the right does the same there are a slightly smaller 10 but you have some people who are closer to the center and then you have some people who are really are have conversations and Tea Party Caucus did quite well ok and to transform the g. O. P. Not necessarily in a good way im i am not a republican im a conservative i dont really have anything to do with the republican splits that you know well yeah but you know i kind of think that the progressives have been less affected in the Democratic Party or let me go to you one of things i find very very curious is it but equally on fox and then we hear from the president himself theyd like to invoke the word socialism as to scare people but i think if you look at Public Opinion polls a lot of younger people find that to be very positive terms i guess i sometimes find these g. O. P. People to be so tone deaf to whats actually people are thinking about a time when im a former academic in the early 1990 s. Socialism was very popular at the university of california it just seeped into the culture of your reaction. I think the debate about socialism its kind of a silly one. Due respect to the terms and to the right wing media because it really is about policy whether you which has yourself to a particular philosophical label all ultimately this is Kitchen Table politics do you have health care and how do you get it do you have a job and how do you get it what happens when you lose your chops should i ease a job a job or is it just are we all just our own independent contractors you know getting with our apps higher being hired with no safety net pressure and i might say thats bipartisan you cant pin that on one party thats for sure to keep going but were fighting that battle here in california and i think its. Its and its an important one to talk about because people are thinking about am i a socialist or not most of the time theyre thinking about can i buy a house and i want to be able to feed my family or my rights going to be protected in the workplace and i am i going to carry the burden of the nations of the cost of the nation or are wealthy people going to pay their fair share you know if im a woman or im a person of color and im going to be respected him for to the same rights in the constitution as everybody else or as a power dynamic different those are the things that people think about and share about deeply and so i think that the debate about socialism is an invention to try to polarize people rather than talk about the ideas they might be our own agree because im actually i didnt come in this piece during europe in the 1980 s. I know what socialism is ok i always find i think a kind of irreverent chuckle when people Start Talking about it and i think most americans couldnt find venezuela on the map if their life depended on it same point to you jason. Yeah i think i would agree i think more of this is about policy so i would agree with laura i think also as you stated the young people are not afraid of the term because they know what socialism is meaning over the years ok but i dont if you look hollow you know from a philosophical standpoint and from a theoretical standpoint they understand that we have socialism all around us we have socialism that are in the night that is of service rich people certainly have so she wasnt really there is you know i think it was dr king said you know we have rugged individualism for the poor and socialism for the rich so you know and they call you know for the poor they call it welfare they call it handouts they call it socialism but you know for the wealthy they call it subsidies or for actually for people certain races its a subsidy others its welfare so again i think that we absolutely. Socialism in this country and it functions in some cases for the public good. You know we could talk about Social Security you know we can talk about medicare about all modeled. After our break here im going to jump in here were going to go to a short break and after a short break well keep going you know what discussion is the left radical in america state or. The sudden false and illegal takeover of a government by a small group. Rather than revolutionaries or soldiers conduct small group the corporations when you have a tiny group of people who have all the power you have to have some means to make sure the rest of us dont get together and take it back. Please or sacrifice some. Places that capitalism exploited and destroyed for profit and left behind misery poverty environmental devastation and so you see things like Voter Suppression building more prisons you seem gerrymandering all sorts of undemocratic practices are well into that world are well. Question. Welcome back to cross talk were all things are considered im peter about to remind you were talking about whether the Democratic Party has been radicalized. Was going to send you a letter well its talk about a lot of issues here well you know in looking at some of the characterizations of the political left in the United States right now there are these issues the tracking the court the Electoral College you know getting rid of it amnesty up to 2030 1000000 people renu deal whatever that really means open borders the funding the police the filibuster these are all related to the left and reacted at least one of them ok go ahead. Well i you take in the most conservative labeling and framing of all of those issues labels are fair i think pretty much fair well if you can badger and bad but we dont call it amnesty you know weve got Immigration Reform you know so so lets talk about lets talk about all of those issues of political left is on the rise and they have and they certainly have an agenda that said you know also really people want action all of the things that youre talking about whether its policy on the environment policy on immigration policy on criminal Justice Reform and Police Reform the broad swaths of the American People you didnt mention you didnt mention gun safety all of these issues are top issues for americans in the cans and out of the can so much and we seem gridlock in congress you know masterfully executed by Mitch Mcconnell now for many many years and when broad swaths of the American People want to see and i see this independents included in that moderate democrats included in that and even slice up republicans included in that so the political left just cheering wire on issues that Americans Care deeply about i think youre going to see action on those issues when we come back to congress especially if democrats take back the senate absolutely yeah but again one of the things that i mentioned are institutional changes jason giving manipulatory college ok packing the court ok i mean this is trying to create a political monopoly adding i forgot to add. The district of columbia as a state to more senators which would be 99 percent sure democrats i mean ive come to many liberals about this and they say you know what we have an imperfect democracy maybe. But at the same time you know if these are creating institutional changes in which they would create a monopoly for ever the where the left would be in control they didnt win and getting rid of the filibuster is well your reaction its so number war and when it comes to wasnt. In d. C. Do you believe in taxation without representation. Yeah like thats not very democratic thats not that bob is that he. Might work that hard down with ice might open and it is even. Nice to touche and i mean let me just say taxation without representation and in many ways is tyranny and i actually think you know its not going to go to propound reasons right be honest although we know that washington d. C. One of the reasons ted kennedy actually said it said it out plainly is because its too black and to democratic and thats not why you take someones vote away at least it shouldnt be untrue 1020 so again we need to address these things and i am when we talk about the will of the people we have to understand that the Electoral College if you understand its Foundation Goes back to the 3 things compromise it may be dated right now and you know you shouldnt have a situation where someone loses by 3000000 votes 3000000 americans believe that the other person should have won the election and then they come out the we emerge the winner so to me it sounds to me like we need to address these things at least start to have a conversation about how to fix them how to make it more democratic how to make it so that the will of the people is actually executed and again i would add you know if you want to talk about taxation without representation we can also to report a rico in there the fact is they pay federal taxes and still dont get representation in congress they get somebody who gets to speak a couple of words and i think that that is fundamentally unfair for american citizens if youre an american citizen you should have all the same rights as the next american citizen and right now were talking about john lewis and thats exactly what he stood for you know with with john lewis having just passed away was fighting for the fact that every american should have this. Same rights particularly when it comes to voting as every other american ok but laura if Hillary Clinton had won in 2016 i dont think we would be having this conversation about the Electoral College woodley i just i fundamentally disagree i think that that jason really hit it on the head when he said that this is really about Voting Rights and Voting Rights are fundamentally are people marching in the street and not just not not just black people white people marching from the suburbs with their strollers saying lets try it now we speak we see the connection Police Violence and voter disenfranchisement we see the connection between the gutting of the Voting Rights act and people inability to hold people in Public Office so i fundamentally disagree i think that there are movements in this nation that would have happened whether you have a hillary in the white house or its on the truck because these issues transcend and party and are the cornerstones of our democracy not everythings a political power play but things maybe have been jerry rigged for some time in favor of certain certain constituencies or i think its always about power always i dont think that is that but i dont think people in politics are virtuous its all ok i think about it i dont i dont think john lewis he wasnt very just taking their power and thats why these issues are being discussed because it will enhance power and it will fundamentally change the course of your hold onto it probably forever ok so you want youre talking about disenfranchising half the country because youre thinking about in franchising others ok i think it has to be a whats more balance i there really is not 0 sum game allows people to vote it doesnt keep her away or added conservative voter a it just brings their folks at the table and at the expense of other people why would anyone go carol. Gotbaum out of that map dont add up. That hes just does that you know that you know i dont take your gun away by giving a gun to someone else its not a piece of others the other votes are more important other and that is the whole reason why we had the literal college in the 1st place so make sure that new york and virginia didnt dominate National Politics forever thats why. Are you getting in all of the 1st of all because of the Electoral College urging your dominated the white house with the 1st part of the 1st like a lesson president 70 if it were for were from virginia because they counted there in slate africans as 3 bits of a person we you know they didnt have as big a population as they had in the north but they started counting people who didnt have the right to vote so again i think your history is a little mixed up here and i would also say that as laura stated what we need is one person one vote thats the way a democracy works so you are not no ones going to go to oklahoma and say were going to take her where you are both. The republican remember that way we had 2 president ial candidates and 26 to both of them were from new york so i dont understand how this is going to be well my great leader how do you win the presidency you need 270 electoral votes that you know you can talk about the top where youre going well but when you when you run for president you know that you need to 70 you dont need x. Number of billions of votes you need 278 the girl vote you know that going into the game and if you dont like the outcome and like i can understand george w. Bush gore got more than george w. Bush but the goal is to win 270 and youll be changed if you want to have read about it right i think the argument that were both making is not that we dont like the outcome its that we dont like the process and i have to chase things that. And trying to get here now i agree and you know peter i think the primary thing and i think i may have kind of lost my thought here but the primary thing is that. We know we would not be having this conversation here would Hillary Clinton have won because the majority of americans voted for Hillary Clinton so i agree that discussion about the process probably would have been delayed because the outcome was what you know the 66000000 americans one of them and that makes sense that we would have a conversation because there would be functionary you know the way it should but when you have a situation where 3 theres a 3000000 vote deficit for the winner then it doesnt make sense its like if you play a basketball game and i have 100 points and you have 97 you know you win that doesnt make sense so again its true this is god and you know g. E. Is about as a ball game you who gets the most points wins and the president actually United States who gets 270 electoral votes thats. Well youre not matched the no not at all let me tell you here kiran keep telling us how the system works as opposed to arguing in favor of youre saying the system works this way therefore of a system should work this way and fundamentally thats not an argument in favor of it its simply a statement i exchanged the rules in the middle of the game it was going to theres no change of rule if you dont give me my margin not receive it in the next 200 years we havent seen seen just so were going to rebuild our structure my point is that changing the rules right now if you if you if you win the house of representatives you win the senate and you win the white house youre going to making big you have the possibility to make massive changes that will not be elected without be agreed to by a Strong Majority so what is the mid majority thinking on the Electoral College what is the majority thinking on immigration what is the main. What i worry about is that the left takes control of the 3 branches of government they dont they will care about when the majority and position is on a lot of these because you have the power and that is the whole purpose of the Power Outages not the power because the majority voted for you but thats how you get the power you know except for the presidency thats the one area where the majority care not vote for you could actually lose the majority in whig majority and thats exact point there would make it about someone like dumbass look at what. He did not vote and they screw her what about the filibuster rule again making it easier ok for the majority power to maintain power go ahead james you know i guess i wasnt here with her and it was was was was was essentially not allowed here and i wasnt here when when Mitch Mcconnell and the republicans fundamentally changed the norms of how Congress Works i can think back to Newt Gingrich when he started doing it alternately this it frustrates me to hear that the constitution democracy is has been unwound for some time by the right so when were talking about reforms neutral reforms i dont last this we keep forgetting our history and how we got here because supreme there is no rule that says you cant afford to appoint a Supreme Court justice in the election in an Election Year so when you abuse the filibuster which is a gentlemens and womens agreements from time staff we have to fundamentally look at that filibuster and say is this working in the context of some of the deep deep problems of our democracy ill say its a l. Say that its not a good idea running weve run out of time very spirited i wanted to left wing people to come on and debate it was a really good debate and i really enjoyed it and i hope our viewers that you. Want to thank my guests laura and jason and i want to thank you. We were just watching us iraqis the next unremember. Danny and by north its so many people because they copied him hes so good that even such a bad puppy is sending. Im not anybody and. Im here to find the next guy. Looked up never get anything done d. In philosophy that she even done plenty of. The deflection move for the c. E. O. Say to the deflection board is happy to say. That is a god given that i got off the mini answer. That he and others are going to going to hear a lot about. That that he can bank on that nothing like a. Long long while and then he goes along the bottom theres a bonus which alone can choke a lot o. And o. 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