[ applause ] welcome to time and punishment a town hall. Chances are youre fill would a lot of emotion, anger, sadness, disgust, disbelief. Were gathered tonight were feeling a lot of those same things. Were inspired by spikes docu series. This young man tragic life and tragic is the word which is why we are here tonight, having a conversation that we need tohave about crime, punishment. You have a right to remain silent. They said most likely were going to let you go home. They took my child, snatched him off the street. The 16yearold child three years over a backpack. I just needed to get my story out. Two of the executive producers of time join us together on the stage. Welcome to you both, gentleman. Im so glad that you are bringing the story to us. I want to start with you. Because he read an article about police. Yeah, i read an article in the new yorker and i just decide i wanted to reach out. Felt like im from marcy project. You have to understand who he was as an individual is not unique to us. You know, thats one of my best friends. Older brother got killed in dallas. You know, ive heard all these stories. So it just resonated. It touched something in me and i reached out to him, no intentions. Give him a shoulder squeeze. Proud of you. He came out, he sat there. We talked. He was going to Community College a college. What was your impression of him when you met him . He looked like kids i grew up with. Wasnt maybe was the moment. Big trouble but clear. They seem to come through this thing and was headed in the right direction. The direction that he wanted to head in his life and its like you can see hes turning his life around. You could see that. Harvey, what about you . He came to us and formed a partnership with television and movie and jays passion on project said about social justice because his story is so unbelievably due in america to watch the outrage of the way we treat somebody this modern age. Kids never put on trial and he spent two years in riekers island and two years in solitary confinement. So the team, the film makers to us, there was nothing we could say but yes. Were glad spike, tracy and sharon jumped there. Id like to say you use the word profit to describe him. Thats a very powerful word. Yeah. Profits come in many shapes and forms. You think about Martin Luther king and the guys and what they rc represented and sometimes its tragic for us to learn the lessons we need to learn to move forward. So i believe that his death is here to teach a generation of kids and were seeing people watching it, people effected by it. I say this about the movie. Its really hard to watch but important to see. I see the length before they air and ive seen them hundreds of themes and still moves me the same way. That is so well said. Its hard to see but important to hear. But millions of people are watching. A george bush thing there with my words. Im sorry. Movie what . Okay, mr. Carter. Heres a look at culeafs world growing up. Me and kaleef were neighbors for years. We used to throw snow balls at cars and then we start running. My stoop be his stoop. Tyrones is all the way to the left. Three months of tears. You would play video games, sports. In the front and constantly. Throwing each other at cars. Its just like regular kids, you know. He was a goof ball. He tells all the jokes. He always made people laugh. Hes a funny kid. Had a good heart to him. We are joined now by his sister, nicole. Thank you so much for bringing the story. Nicole, i want to start with you because i read about your Brothers Story in the paper and thought i must be missing something here. The story cant be the way its being portrayed. What do you want us to know about him . He was a normal, happy, very healthy kid. The youngest . He was it youngest. Of how many kids . Seven. And he was the baby. We played together, we picked on each other. There was a time when we were younger that i took a mattress from my bed and we would slide it down the stairs and we used to laugh. He was also very strong. He was 55 and 155 pounds. I weigh more than 155 pounds. But he was a little guy. Yes. But he was very strong. Very strong. He was born with an eight pack. He had this physique that we look at him and hes this little midget. You guys called him peanut. And ive heard you say that prison changed him. Yes. Tell us about that. When he came home he wasnt the same person. He was soulless. I didnt see any charactershics about him anymore. They literally took my brother away from us. You know what i want people to know about your brother. Your brother was not bad kid. He was a normal kid. With normal dreams. Absolutely. He was. He always wanted to own a business. He road his bike every day, no matter what he was going through, he made sure he showed up for clas. And his strength is something im trying to learn from and i want to learn from because he makes me want to be a better person. You know what struck me when i was watching the documentary, the time you spent with his mom and the toll it took on her. Yeah. I think people dont really understand when we talk about the criminal Justice System and people who have been wrongfully convicted or in prison or jail or a place like riekers, we dont realize how it effects their family. It was just such a heart wrenching experience to know how much she endured, how much she had seen her child over and over again this long commute, this grulyi gruly trip and not being able to take him home and do anything but wait while he told her about what was happening to him in there. I mean, she carried that with her and carried his fight for justice with her when he passed. And her strength is truly inspirational and i do this a lot for her. It also struck me that this all started with a backpack. He was accused of stealing the backpack and that was something i thought didnt make any sense to me too. How could somebody accused of stealing a backpack end up in prison . So many kids sitting there because these docket numbers. Its not children. You have to watch this and then you have to walk in to your childs room and just look at them. The idea that this could happen in america right now, you have to take a second, a moment to pause for people looking at people, statistics. You think about how we arrived at this point and kids do things. They get into things. Ive done that. And you take a joy ride in the truck and they give you a felony charge. Thats a felony story. Thats five years probation for joy riding. And that started the kalief introduction into the criminal Justice System. I love how jenner said it was effecting the family. Take us inside the family. I dont want to dominate the conversation. I just want to finish that point off. It would be like kids at skate parks riding around and getting tickets. If you give that kid in the skate park being miss chvs, youre not supposed to do that. You give that purse an felony. Thats the equivalent of that. I just want you to close off this segment with how it effected the family. Because the conversations that you all were having. Your brother is in prison because he was accused of stealing the backpack which turned out not even to be the case. This has taken, if not a big toll, a huge toll on our family. We lost our brother. And we lost a year and six months later we lose our mother. That was the toughest thing. I understand that. Time through the, mom. And ill stay with jay. Somebody who would tell the story and the biggest injustice of all, thats these kids. Couple of kids in the suburbs do the same thing. You have money, this doesnt. Happen. This is an injustice, this is racial prejudice and economic prejudice. Now, lash like a boss new big shot mascara from maybelline new york. Big shot bristles hold more. For fully loaded lashes. Big shot volume. See it. Believe it. Maybellines big shot. Make it happen. Maybelline new york only at t offers you all your live channels and dvr on your devices. Datafree. Entertainment. Your way. Only from at t. School lunch can be difficult. Cafeteria chaos. One little struggle. Can lead to one monumental mishap. Not with ziploc easy open tabs. Because life needs ziploc. Sc johnson. Break thand dry ends. Ly roots with loreals new extraordinary clay. This hair rebalancing system with 3 refined clays. Purifies oily roots. Hydrates dry ends. For up to 48 hours of fresh hair. Loreals extraordinary clay. From loreal hair expert paris. That had built his house once thout of straw. Tle pig one day a big bad wolf huffed and he puffed and blew the house down. Luckily the Geico Insurance agency had helped the pig with homeowners insurance. He had replacement cost coverage, so his house was rebuilt, good as new. The big bad wolf now has a job on a wind farm. Call geico and see how easy it is to switch and save on homeowners insurance. You are mr. Kalief brouder, is that correct . They said i tried to rob somebody, then they told me i robbed somebody previously. One of those. Did you rob somebody in the beginning part of may . No. We are back on time and punishment. And were here tonight for this town hall. Were really talking about Kalief Browder. He was tragically failed by our court and prison system too. How on earth could this happen and if you watch that last hour, you were sitting at home, you must be wondering how does this happen in the United States of america . And here jayz and Harvey Weinstein are still here of course. But were now joined by schultz from the New York Times and kaliefs lawyer after his release. You saw him after he came out of prison. And i was struck that prison was described as hell on earth. Youre thinking yea. But in many ways, it became a different kind of hell for him when he got out, did it not . When you met him . I think without a doubt. When i first met kalief we sat through his release from rietgers what struck me was i saw this young kid and his pain and his anger was palpable, but beneath that as i got to know 4i him, what i saw was this innocence and this smile. I think thats what really touched me. And once you got to know kalief and i can speak for anyone whos met him from Rosie Odonnell to jay, he just had that thing about him that you were drawn to. And i think thats what really what makes this series so inspiring. I can say that about me personally. I always felt like i had a passion for what we did. But kalief gave me a cause to fight for and thats something ill always take away. But as someone in the Legal Community yourself, did you find yourself wondering how did this happen to you . Or were you thinking im not surprised. As a lay person, i couldnt understand it. I was surprised. I remember when his brother called me and told me when his brother told me and said could you meet my brother. He just got out of prison and he told me this story and i thought youre missing something. So i think it was really an aberration that you had this massive selling in every aspect of our criminal Justice System and more appalling, it happened here in new york city. So i think, yes. Have i seen these things he happen . Of course. But to this extent . Never. Did you think it was an aberration, michael . Youve been covering this story. I have been covering this story. When i started looking into Rikers Island and started resporting on it, i didnt believe the things i was reading about the level of violence, about the gang assaults, about the criminality and the absolute chaos that goes on there. But the thing that needs to be reported over and over again was that kalief, when he went in was 17 years old and new york is one of only two states in the nation to treat 16 and 17 year olds like adults. So as a 17yearold boy and as you mentioned in the last segment, he was small stater. This is a boy, is put into a mens prison. A jail designed to house adults and for years theres been a push to try and raise the age of criminal responsibility so its in line with the rest of the nation, which recognizes 18 year olds as the cut off for putting individuals into adult prisons and even that, some research would suggest is too young to be throwing somebody in with a mix of adults. 16 and 17 year olds, these are children. You cant drink, cant vote but you an adult. You can go to an adult prison. Thats what your going to be hearing about new york. And the thing that also impressed me about kalief is that he was given an opportunity to plead. Just say that youre guilty and then you can get out of here and its so powerful in the documentary where he says if i do that then this story will never be told. That says something about he may have been small in stater, but it says something about his integrity, his character and his strength. And thats exactly what i think is so powerful about his stories. And you know, but ultimately and he had gone through so much after he got released. And there was so much that happened to him. Both good and bad. Hold that thought for two seconds. Part of kaliefs story comes down to not making bail. The majority of people who are accused in the bronx, doesnt matter if its Million Dollars bail or 750, they dont have the means to get out. Bail was set at 3,000 but the bond was 900. Sounds like a small amount but when you dont have it, you dont have it. And i did not have it. And i couldnt do anything. This was my child. They took my child from me. Just snatched him off the street. I think thats the thing, paul, that got to me. Anybody if they knew this story, knew it boils down to 3,000 a day. Harvey weinstein, any of us would have said i will make bail for this child. But the court system says innocent until Proven Guilty. Its not innocent until Proven Guilty because if you dont have the means, then your jail and house is a guilty individual. Right. Ryan stephenson says we have a criminal Justice System that treats you better if you are rich and guilty than if you are poor and innocent. Yeah. I think theres something to be said for that. And theres definitely i think kaliefs story sort of tips the scale because i think most people had presumed that if youre in jail, even if you havent been convicted of anything, maybe you did something wrong. Theres that presumption of guilt and then. The presumption of innocence. You must have done something. Yes, maam . Questions for jay. Do you find parallels between kaleys experiences and your own experiences growing up here . Yeah. A lot of i look at a lot of forks in the road in my life that i could have made the wrong decision and not been on this stage, easy. Easy. Like, there were many instances where i could have gotten myself in trouble and i was doing things. Not some innocent 16yearold im not saying hes an angel. We live in these neighborhoods and these are the pressure, the social pressures and everything we got going on. You put these people together, personal things, you have to deal with multiple personalities every day and then you have to deal with peer pressure and you have to deal with the schooling. You go to school like my child has three teachers. We were one teacher 35 students. I mean, its very difficult to get that sort of education. Weve never left the projects. So this is our this is our microcosm of society is this small. We dont see that theres a whole world out there that we can aspire to, go places and see things. Thats why making a song, hate to say it so raw but its true. Making out is so important toop aspire to go to other places. We didnt go to manhattan until we got to high school. I remember seeing central park one day and almost cried. What made you cry . Its so beautiful. It was 250,000 people in the park playing frisbee and all that. Theres kids in the project whos never left the project and kids is out here in the street. Its the idea of the world and whats out there. Its the things we dont see. So we base everything on a neighborhood and man, this is nothing. I risk my life. But what is it . This is nothing to me. Im sorry. Thats why people do things you think youre like why would someone do that . You have to really put yourself in that mind state. You have be in the place to say what are they really risking in their mind to go from the hallway, they get jail. Nobody cares about them. They get locked away, abused. This young man spent 800 days solitary. You couldnt spend fourlt days without your mind just gone. Alth 00 days. And went in at 16, not 17. 16 years old. But the point you make about him he was not an angel. But he was not a bad kid. If he lives in the suburbs, he would have been out the very same day. He was skating, he was joy riding. He was skating in the place people didnt want him to. Thats the parallel. They chase you away there. Get out of here. Go home. Thats the point i want to make. When i came here tonight, we drove up broadway. I remember taking my kids seeing the show myself, les ms. Raw. When he says kalief is the profit, sean bell sean lived for history 400 years later, here we are. This and the story that the vacuum entry tells hopefully will be the same kind of message and the same kind of power and thats the film these guys made. Thank you, harvey. Well be back with more time and punishment. The only way youre going to come home to your family is to plead guilty whether or not you do it. And anybody who thinks you and anybody who thinks you wouldnt plead guilty to people spend less time lying awake with aches and pains with advil pm than with tylenol pm. Advil pm combines the number one pain reliever with the number one sleep aid. Gentle, nonhabit forming advil pm. For a healing nights sleep. Love is how carols daughter was born. Ingredient. A full range of lusciouslyscented haircare recipes everything you want for softness and shine. 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Good day get truly unlimited highspeed data for 60 bucks a month and the latest smartphones. Want better wireless . The answer is simple. New, peach, from limearita. Make it a margarita moment. Officers and inmates at risk at Rikers Island. This stuff breaks grown men, el let alone a boy. Welcome back to time and punishment tonight. We are coming together as a community but what kind of community was Kalief Browder thrust into when he was sent to Rikers Island and what happened when he was forced into solitary confinement for 800 days. Think about that for a second. 800 days solitary confinement by yourself. Were joined by crissy jacobson. Director of the documentary solitary. Christy, you start us off what solitary is like based on what you learned about solitary in juveniles in particular. I filmed inside of a supermax prison. So were talking about a jail but theyre also supermax prisons across the United States where people are housed exclusively in solitary confinement. So the kinds of conditions that kalief experiences 22, 23, to 24 hours a day in an 8 by 10 cell. Meal said get fed to you by a slot. And the sounds, the screaming of your fellow members of that society can be really torturous. So as jones said in that clip, a grown man would crack let alone a young man. Human nrinterakds and being deprived of social interactions. And youth, as jay was saying, not built their brains arent even fully formed. They dont ness saerl have the strength to with stand that kind of treatment and that goes on not just in rikers but across the United States. Lets take a look at a clip of what life is like at rikers. Kalief was imprisoned at Rikers Island. Its isolated, its away from our view. Some people have called it new yorks own tiny little guantanamo bay. Officers and inmates at risk on Rikers Island. This stuff breaks grown men, let alone a young guy. The only way youre going to come home to your family is to plead guilty, whether or not you did it. And anybody who thinks you wont plead guilty to get off Rikers Island havent been there. You would do anything to get out of something that violent and frightening. Im not going to say i did something just so i can go home. If i have to stay here to prove that im innocent, then so be it. I feel sorry forred a lessants because i know theyre going to get violated. Its hell on earth. Thats what got to me, guys, in the documentary where he says im noting going to plead guilty. So be it. Did you all talk about that at all . We didnt go into depth what he was going through, i just imagine based on the stories i heard growing up. And its not exclusive to rikers. I dont want anyone to think this is an anomaly. Its terrible place but theyre all over the world and housing young kids in these places