especially before we reached such levels of high immunity from vaccination and infection, it is true that closing schools probably reduced the level of transmission and may have saved lives, but if you have those same data, people are coming to different conclusions. and i actually think that so much of what's gone wrong in people's trust of public health officials is that we keep on saying follow the science as if there is one right answer. there isn't. it is about trade-offs. look health is extremely complexed and nuanced. as we lean into the nuance we are able to convey the actual picture of how complex this is. >> dr. wen , do you think we should have given more consideration to isolating those who were most at risk? the elderly? allowing people to lead their lives knowing they would get it and embracing more herd immunity?