still go. some of them are very highly based scientists, one was the director of the los alamos laboratory, and many others, former secretaries of defense, william perry, and others have been there. and they do have this two-track, or track 2 policy going on. there are people who can have this dialogue. but they're not empowered to have official dialogue. >> they're very sensitive, the north koreans. when i was there in december 2010, christiane speaks about the visit which was well received in pyongyang of the new york philharmonic. the north koreans wanted to send their philharmonic to perform in new york at carnegie. they were told that that was going to happen, reciprocal visit. i don't think that has happened. they're very sensitive, relatively small things like that. the. >> they are. you know, i'm all for people-to-people diplomacy, all for more information about that. let's keep in mind the blunt