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He refuses to comply of a grand jury subpoena of the russian investigation. He did an all day marathon on tv instead, eventually, going onto say well, he may corroborate. All this is proving that the only thing you can count on in this white house is chaos. You know who says hes fine with the chaos . The president himself. I want to bring in New York Times columnist. Assistant secretary of state under president obama. Thank you both for joining us here this evening. Never a dull moment. Nick, the first question goes to you. I want to talk about chaos. Everyday is something new here. Do you have trouble keeping up . I do it every single day. You think after a while it is going to come down and the white house loses more experience and people definitely recruiting others and this may actually accelerate. That really strikes me is that given the difficulty on trade policy, for example, President Trumps inability listening to or a rational evidence based path. You wonder how indeed hes going to handle north koreas policy, real work, thats very scary. A trade war we candace disentangle ourselves from. A nuclear war with north degree. We cant. Lets talk about trade policy and how it may impact our policy. Lets take a look at what paul ryan said today, the house speakers comment on this. We are extremely worried of the consequences of the trade war and urging the white house to not advance with this plan. The new tax reform law boosted the economy. Speaker ryan is concerned of what a trade war would do to the economy. What does this say of the role of this policy . Well, i served four years on the National Security counsel staff at the white house and you know setting aside the merits here it seems to me that it is probably going to cause us more jobs than saves. This is something thats a priority for the president , he evidently bleed this for 30 years and there is also a failure of not only on the merits but also a failure of the process. You have the president if hes going to do this, he does not set an impromptu meeting with few executives and they know just impulsively announce the tariffs. Hes out making a speech at a steel plant, secretary of state and advisers and engaging with allies and how to understand what the initiative means and does not mean. And how he has economic advisers on wall street, we have a situation where we dont know the details yes. The ship is still on the piers. Its already taking on water. Making it difficult to achieve the objective. The president was asked about speaker ryans warning. Are you going to book down with the tariffs. No, we are not backing down. Now, gary cohn is planning a meeting this week between the president and representatives from the industry that could hurt the trumps tariffs. Do you think the president could be swayed . Boy, i hope so. If it is limited to steel and aluminum, thats manageable. The impact on the economy would negative libl. The real risk is twofold, one that europe responds and other countries would respond. The other is this leads President Trump in the renegotiation of nafta to take a hard line and causes nafta to fall apart and collapse. In either of it happens then the damage just goes all through the economy and undermines it at a time when it is really strong. Pj, i believe you have a response to that. I you know, said well maybe we wont include canada if they agreed to renegotiation on nafta of President Trumps term. Whether you are talking about canada or mexico, every time, the president actually makes negotiations of a balance deal thats good for the United States and good for canada and mexico. Updates nafta as necessary. It makes that much more difficult. If nafta does collapses, out the window goes the rosie economic assumption that the administration used for a number of tax reforms. I want to talk about russia. Yet to use tens of millions of dollars in funding that lawmakers allocated. Tillerson has left almost 80 million on the table for months. What do you suppose it is taking him so long, nicholas . This is in unfathomable. The way he defends putin and the way he changes his republican platform and the failure to respond to our russian attack of our system. The failure to tell Admiral Mike Rogers to give him the authority of the u. S. Cyber command to respond and confront russia on these attacks. Now we find that the state department has 120 million and spends zero, this is a broader pattern that i think is explicable unless if there is another part of the puzzle that we dont see. Which is come kind of lempverag that moscow had. Over President Trump. Pj, intel chiefs are warning about russia and folks are wondering if this had anything to do with the president reluctant or acknowledgment or responding. To the interference. Pushing back saying its because tillerson wants to do a careful review. What do you think of this . I think there are three things going on here. The fact that the president is not leading a conversation about helping us protect the integrity of our electoral process, thats president ial malpractice. Secondly, he has not learned from the experience of george w. Bush and barack obama both who made a significant effort to do business with Vladimir Putin and by the end of their respective terms were disabused that there could be cooperations. I dont mind the fact that President Trump has tested that waters but now when you look at just the interference of 2016, you look at whats happening in syria and whats happening in ukraine and whats happening in north korea, and we do need a whole of Government Strategy on confronting russia. It is not a new cold war. At the sate department, you have this Global Engagement centered. They have been focused primarily over the past several years on countering violent extremists and they have been given some money but they have no russian speakers and no russian expertise and the backdrop of this is that as the state department is increasing its globals responsibility, tillerson is trying to cut the state departments budget from anywhere from 15 or 30 . You got a hemorrhaging of experiences and talents in the state department. It is a real capacity there and given an important mission. They need time to build up the ability to do it. Of course, i agree with that russia seems to be preparing to interfere with our elections this year which they attempted to hack into 31 different states, Electoral Systems and the idea that we would be so passive in the state department and the u. S. Cyber command and its white house, i find it just inexplicable. I want to ask you about the gun legislation. This has been three weeks. Lawmakers falling on the same side every time we have one of these mass shootings. I think they are. There will be a little bit of movement at the state level and oregon just passed some state measures. There maybe measures at the state level in florida. We are missing such an opportunity here and you see 96 and everyone a gun owning household in america favoring universal background checks. This is something thats not everyone on the radar for congress. Maybe the federal government will move on bump stocks or do this next system and improving the database. These are tiny baby steps in which during your show more americans will die from gun violence than die all year in japan from guns. This bump stock, they should do whatever they can but thats thats a head fake by lawmakers. It does not address the fundamental problem. One american dies 15 minutes of gun violence. Thats not going to change. Nick and pj, thank you. I appreciate both of you. A blunt response to mullers subpoena. Screw that. Will he agree to testify in congress . You wont see these folks at the post office they have businesses to run they have passions to pursue how do they avoid trips to the post office . Stamps. Com mail letters ship packages all the Amazing Services of the post office right on your computer get a 4 week trial plus 100 in extras including postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again nunberg went onto give a Series Television interviews. What does Robert Mueller think of all this. Muellers assistant is here and kim whaley is a former associate independent counsel in the white water investigation. I am so glad all of you are here this evening. It is a significant story and deserves a lot of discussions here. Nunberg gave at least seven interviews today and three of them are from cnn. Asked if he think muellers team has something on trump. Watch this. The way they asked about his business dealings, the way they asked if you had heard anything everyone during while i was fired, it just it just made me suspect that they suspect something about him. Glory trump may very well done something during the election with the russians. What makes you if he did that, i dont know. If he did that, it is inexcusable. What do you think of these interviews . What do you think of this, julia . Theyre obviously entertaining and i dont think it is credible or move the needle that much. What i take away from it is nunberg is givering us a window and a good window in where mueller and the team are heading and what they are asking about. We have not gotten someone leading the interview being as explicit as him and i am assuming hes telling the truth of whats happening and at least tells all of us that this investigation is really at the core about trump and his family. Thats what those questions were about and thats what sam was disclosing and thats i think thats why tomorrow morning, well all wake up to a series of tweets in response to this. Yeah. I can predict that much. What do you think, michael, what does mueller want to hear from nunberg . Can i say as an over arching matter and i watched that interview and my fundamental response to it is sadness. I am hoping that there is somebody out there whos a friend thatll keep an eye on sam. It made me concerned for him. I wanted to say that because it is been weighing on me. In respect of the specific question. Mueller i thought the thing that nunberg said to me because most compelling was hes interested in roger stones relationship with wikileaks because that makes sense to me if muellers fundamental responsibilities in this case is counter and indictment of social media part of this and facebook and twitter and now hes going to look at number two of the hacking and the domestic hacking of podesta and the dnc. He thinks perhaps relate to that roger stone may have information on it. I think thats what drove nunberg so off the rocket today because he tried to protect his friend and thats what he thinks is in jeopardy today here. What we learn is part two of the Counter Intelligence investigation is going to be looking at the hacking and as of the social media and now hacking, we are going to look first to that outside coming in and then well look to see anyone on the inside cooperate on the way out. That would be analytics of Jared Kushner on the social media and roger stone and don jr. In communication with stuff and wikileaks. Kim, adam schiff, wants nunberg to the in the house and the committee, do you think hell do that. I think it is impossible. The threat of contempt in front of the grand jury. Its a much more serious circumstance. Should he testify before congress . I said before that i think there are some liability in thing before congress if you appear before the Mueller Investigation, so you know how i would advise him as a lawyer is whats best for the country is another. What i think is really a concern here is that we had and we have russians that are interfering with our democracy and we have two branches of government thats not functioning. The executive branch and the legislature. The judiciary is extremely important and the fact that this incident demonstrates and contempt for the process is a problem. I would expect that mr. Mueller would make sure there are compliance of all the witnesses that he calls for the grand jury the system sustains itself. I want to talk about something thats significant that he was asked about that june 2016 meeting. It looks like it may be the center of muellers investigation. Listen to this. President trump says he knew nothing about the meeting, do you think thats true . No. You dont think thats true . No. Jake, i have watched your news report, you know it is not true. He talked about it the week before and i dont know why he did this. All he had to say was yeah, we met with the russians. The russians offered us something and we thought they had something. And, that was it. I dont know why he went around trying to hide. Julia, how significant is that response . I think it is significant in the sense that a lot of us have suspected from the beginning. It seems unconceivable that meeting would take place and donald trump would mention the disclosure the next couple of days. That meeting took place of his top adviser and including his son. And he wouldnt have known about it. Whether sam nunberg knows for a fact or extrapolating from the way the campaign worked or the way donald trump works with his son or the way the interest that donald trump would have. Donald trumps disclosure over the next couple of days, once you put two and two together, it often does equal four in some stage and i think sam was sort of picking up on that. I have long thought that meeting was relevant and not so much get the information whether that happened or not but the lying about whether donald trump knew about it is the more significant part and i think a lot of data points are now suggesting that is exactly what happened. He either knew simultaneously or immediately after. We got a lot more to discuss and i want all of you to stick around. When we come back, who else is mentioned in nunbergs interview and what is that investigation going . Small business, internet providers promise you a lot. Lets see who delivers more. Comcast business offers fast gigspeeds across our network. At t doesnt. We offer more complete reliability with up to 8 hours of 4g Wireless Network backup. At t, no way. We offer 35 voice features and solutions that grow with your business. At t, not so much. Get internet on our gigspeed network and add voice and tv for 34. 90 more per month. Call 18005016000. Sam nunberg did a lot of talking today to cnn and several other media outlets. He released a subpoena from special counsel Robert Mueller. It is interesting that we have a copy of this subpoena. Robert muellers team is asking for all communications between nunberg and trumps associates, steve bannon and Michael Cohen, paul manafort. Thats a lot of trumps allies or associates here. What does this tell us, kim . One thing that i did learn of the wait water investigation is whats happening inside is different than from what the public or media understand. We can all tell a story of everybody up on that screen at this point. The question is whether it is going to lead to the president of the United States. The meeting in june of 2016, that was just discussed as important of additional reason is that if mr. Trump was aware of that meeting could create the meeting of aiding or abetting or in addition of obstruction of justice. It is quite serious of a criminal matter and we open the question whether the president could be indicted. The Mueller Investigation is getting closer and closer to the upper. Etch echelon or the executive branch. When you see that list, what do you have in mind . A lot of these guys, lewandowski, they are early members of the campaign. This is an effort by mueller sort of understanding the origins of the Trump Campaign and their evolution and that may include who they communicated with. What theyre communicating about. I am not sure if it paints a picture of obstruction or or collusion or indictable offense or anything like that. I broadly base as an effort of mueller to understand foundational stuff as this campaign got underway and from that, hell extrapolate and make the determinations. Juliet, you have been reading the tea leaves. Most of what you have said, you how this sh going to turn out. The timing. Predicted correctly. When you look at this list of names and they were actually tea leaves, how would you read that . Similarly. This is the inner core of the trumps team. It is interesting that the family is not on that list and so you sort of wonder why not. And where this investigation is going. The most interesting character, there are two interesting people in that list sort of standing out. One is roger stone. There is a lot going on with roger stone including h is communications with wikileaks and what wikileaks was going to do and the question is how much of that did he communicate to the campaign and who knew that in the campaign. I think we constantly need to be looking at roger stone as someone thats sort of a lynch pin in this dynamic. And the other is hope hicks. About to leave, maybe k and shee inner circle. And shes has parents who maybe urging her to get out of this mess. That she found herself in. I sort of well, keep my eyes opened to see what hope hicks moves are considering the investigation will have a lot of interests in here at this state. Carter page, he believes page was colluding with the russians. The white house really wants the word collusion to go away but now there seems to be a new angle on collusion. Well, collusion should really go away because it is criminal investigation, collusion is not a crime. Conspiracy is a crime, aiding and abetting, another crime is a crime. It is difficult to determine whether anything that this witness is saying is something that we should all put a lot of faith in. They want to stee see what he communicated with other members of the campaign. It suggests after the grand jury testimonies, prosecutors decided they need these documents. If these emails are consistent or inconsistent of what he said in the grand jury. Michael, this is a report from the New York Times reporting that muellers team is investigating in there is any attempt by the united emirates if they donated money to donald trump. Is he expanding the probe now or is it apart of it . The mandate uses the word russia in the first sentence. When it says count intelligence. Mueller is to continue the counter investigation that comey testified to in march. Thats the russia investigation. Within that mandated, he may look into other matter that made arise of. In the course of his russia, Counter Intelligence investigations, he sees evidence that are similar situated or have been coordinating, if it is completely untethered to that, he has to come to rosenstein, what does he want us to do . Take it ourselves. Whether he wanted mueller to continue with the work he comes across. At one point nunberg called james comey pathetic and he was a disgrace and deserved to be fired and he called mueller honorable and professional. What do you make of that, kim . I mentioned it before and this particular person is not in a position where hes making measured comment and any lawyer would not recommend that he would be speak to multiple networks as if they were his personal therapists. I would not put a lot of stock in him and as i mentioned before, we dont know and it is like reading moby dick trying to piece together of the investigation. I dont think mr. Nunberg is a careful work they are doing. Don, can i say one thing . I think it is an incumbent and maybe because i am a female. Sam also said some horrible things of sarah sanders. I think we should people may feel sorry for him or maybe hes drunk. I am no fan of sarah sanders, it is incumbent at us to be outraged at that as well. I just wanted to say that because it is horrible things that julianni should be saying that. He said he i thought it was out of bands. I did not bring it because i thought it is out of bound. It is outrages. Real quick. The one thing you have to keep in mind about this man, nunberg, his opinions matter not at all. It is only the facts that under line, the basis of those opinions of what of interest to mueller. What matters of what bannon thinks is irrelevant. What he knows is all that matter. Thank you, all. What the Trumps Administration is doing now that could be in violation of the law. Im April Kennedy and im an arborist with pg e in the sierras. Since the onset of the drought, more than 129 Million Trees have died in california. Pg e prunes and removes over a Million Trees every year to ensure that hazardous trees cant impact power lines. And since the onset of the drought weve doubled our efforts. I grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly its heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. What guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. A report tonight the Trump Organization maybe violating federal law over use of the president ial seal. I want to bring fl a deputy managing editor. And cohost of the pod cast our cohost of the trumps incorporated. Gentlemen, good evening to you. The trumps organizations have ordered trump, inc. , podcast extra. Federal law says its clearly here that the president ial seal can fot be used for any purpose which implies the endorsement of the federal government. Fill us in. What can you tell us about this story . Well, i think the key thing is we ask readers to help us out on the podcast to investigate, trump inc. With us with our partners. We had a tip that president ials seals have been ordered by trumps organization to be used as golf tee markers at a trumps golf course. Thats the basic gists of it. It turns out using president ial seal for commercial purposes is a criminal act. Puni punishab punishable by six months . Jail. Richard, i am sure you see a real problems here. Yeah, we had one incident where somebody was using the president ial seal when i was in the white house and one of my counsels wrote him a letter and let him know clearly that you do not use the president ial seal that way. You could get into some very serious trouble and yes, there are criminal penalties. The idea that the president of the United States would allow his businesses or perhaps himself instruct his own businesses to use the seal, golf tees, this is really this is disgusting and it is illegal. They can get into serious trouble for that. The president is there to serve the country. This is a public office. It is not there hes not there for the enrichment of the trumps organization. The seal should not be used in that manner. You said it could get into trouble. What kind of trouble . It could be criminal. This is intellectual profit that belong to the United States. It belongs to the United States. To the government you dont just put government and stick it on your commercial goods that you want to sell in a store on your golf tees. You dont do that. He could get trouble. The trumps organization could get in trouble for this. Whats more important is the message is being sent here. Public office is being used for private gains. Whether it is use of the president ial seal or the president receiving payments from Foreign Government or his son is running all over the world cutting business deals while theyre talking about United States government business. Jared kushner meeting with banks and the white house and those banks are giving good deals to his family. All of this it has hypocrisy written all over it. Interest f private gain. Thats a travesty for our country. Aside from the golf tees, do we know any other conflicts of interest and his family dealings . We know the president repeatedly using the purge of the presidency to promote his own businesses. Thats not a secret. We did not need to do a big investigation about it. Hes done it out in public. To give an example after charlottesville, he had a press conference, one of the things he said, i have a fine winery and people should visit. He mentioned his golf courses in speeches. He stays at his retreat for 100 plus days now. Hes invoking and using his place in the oval office to cite and promote his businesses and plus, there are direct money line such as when they double the fees at maralago after he was elected president. Interesting right . Richard, i want to turn to the wall street journal the reporting of President Trumps personal lawyer, Michael Cohen complained to friends that he has not been reimbursed for paying stormy daniels, the porn star. He paid her. 130,000 part of a nondisclosure agreement. Cohen has said that he made the payment completely on his own to protect trump. Whats your reaction to that payment from cohen . First of all, he should not be surprised that he does not get paid. Donald trump did not pay his trades people in new york and he stiffed a lot of people. The idea that hes going to stiff the lawyer, thats not new for this. Payment to the porn star to keep her mouth shut. But, one of the concerns i have and we have raised this, we wrote a letter to the government of ethics about that, that that llc that held the money was supposed to be on the president s financial form. Whats going on there . Hes required to disclose all of his assets and entities that he owns. He has a secret llc. For porn stars. What other secrets does he have in violation of federal law. Thats just the beginning of it. This is typical of the way things have been done in this administration. A lot of secrets and side deals and whether it is porn stars or russians or what ever else, a lot of people lied about it but i will say once again i dont think mr. Cohen ought to be surprised that hes not getting paid. Hes got to get in line with everybody else that donald trump owns money to. Richard, i appreciate your time. Hollywood getting political at the oscars, well bring you will all the moments. And the creator of oscar so white joining us. You wont see these folks at the post office they have businesses to run they have passions to pursue how do they avoid trips to the post office . Stamps. Com mail letters ship packages all the Amazing Services of the post office right on your computer get a 4 week trial plus 100 in extras including postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again the 90th oscar ceremony has come and gone. I want to talk about the memorable political moments with april reign. We have april rhine here. Forgive me. Im sorry. Im sorry. Im humbled to be here. Creator of oscarssowhite. And angela rye and alice stewart. Im going to start with april since i screwed up her name. The oscars, plenty of political moments and performances. Last night a performance by common and andra day, performing the song, stand up for something from the field marshall. Common called out the nra in his rap. Watch this. On oscar night, this is the dream we tell. A land where dreamers live and freedom dwells. Immigrants get the benefits. We put up monuments for the feminists. Tell the nra they aint gods way. And to the people of parkland, we say ase. Hes talking about pa i think it was fantastic. It is imperative that public figures and celebrities use the opportunity that they have when they have it with their platform to speak out on social justice issues. Not only was common and andra day there, but behind them were dolores huerta, patrisse from the black lives matter movement, Cecile Richards from planned parenthood, tarana burke, the founder of the me too movement. It was an incredibly powerful statement that they were standing with these women. Lupita nyongo and Kumail Nanjiani are both immigrants, and they gave a speech paying tribute to dreamers. Heres some of it. Like everyone in this room and everyone watching at home, we are dreamers. We grew up dreaming of one day working in the movies. Dreams are the foundation of hollywood, and dreams are the foundation of america. Beautiful examples, i thought. Alice, what do you think . I think they were phenomenal, and i think his statement following up with what she just said was stating that he was from pakistan and iowa, two places that people in hollywood wouldnt be able to recognize on a map because so many times theyre so focused on hollywood and what they have going on there, they dont understand whats going on in middle america, in the heartland of america, because theyre so focused on themselves. Let me just say on this nra comment, what common said about the nra getting in gods way, its the hypocrisy in hollywood sitting there with armed guards around them to be trashing the nra. I applaud the nras response that they put to that, saying lets stand up for our veterans. Lets stand up for our heroes. Lets stand up for those who fought for our freedom. Lets stand up for those who gave their lives and blood for hollywoods opportunity to give their free speech. I just think the hypocrisy of these celebrations are so obvious. Go ahead, angela. So, alice, are you on retainer . Like last week we were sitting right here. Were not in the same place. We were sitting right here on this show, and you did this same nra Public Service announcement. Like these folks are wrong as two left shoes. They are wrong. This isnt about the nra standing up to protect people in hollywood. This isnt about people who are out of touch. The nra is out of touch. Like if you dont know anything else right now, lets lay partisanship aside. Lets lay all of this aside and say, kids have died. The nra is out of touch. They are in gods way. Common had it right, right . Like we didnt need anybody to tell us that. We dont need you on here telling us how amazing the nra is. Theyre not. Theyre terrible. They are terrible. And its high time that somebody that wasnt just standing up for the Second Amendment and we dont even have time to unpack all of that. But its high time that there is an organization that competes with them to say, we are not going to allow you to buy Public Service. That is not for sale. You owe everything to this country. You owe public servants. You have to protect your constituents. Like please stop with the i cant deal. I cant. Not with the nra. I just cant do the nra psa tonight. I cant do. I cant. Maybe its because my throat is sore. Im not in the mood. I cant. The hypocrisy of hollywood to be sitting there criticizing the nra when they have armed guards rashid is from chicago. Like stop. Just stop. I like you as a person, but this is crazy. Stop. Also, alice, when you talk about armed guards, the people there protecting are police officers. Many of them are retired police officers. Some of them are on the job. Theyre trained to carry guns. Americans around the country are saying should be able to carry guns. Most americans want, you know, very stringent background checks. They want some sort of gun control. The nra members are a very small minority of what america actually wants. Theyre holding the rest of us hostage. First of all, lets not be mistaken. The nra has 5 million members. People that own guns how many people but, alice, the people in the audience werent packing guns. No. Look, what im talking about is tens of millions of americans own guns. They may not necessarily be nra members, but they want to have the opportunity to have guns. But the majority of them are saying that they want stricter gun laws. The majority of gun owners in this country say that they want to have stricter gun laws. So what youre saying is antithetical to what we see with respect to the demographics in this country. No one is trying to take guns away, right . Obama left in 2017, so we can get past that. The guns are going to stay. We understand that. But we need to ensure that there is going to be safety for our children, and thats not what the nra is talking about. And for people in places of worship. Also talk about the fact that the nra is incredibly selective because when were talking about black individuals being killed, the nra is silent. Ive got to run. I have to say, first of all, my apologies to kumail because i saw his name on the prompter and it didnt look right. Heres the thing. I went last night to the oscars. I was there this weekend. The only time i embarrassed myself, angela, was i kind of fanned out for drake. Tracee ellis ross laughed at me and im sure calling me such a nerd. It was beautiful to be there and for people to raise money. I was at elton johns party raising money for hiv and aids research. And folks who stood up talked about the nra and talked about social injustice. Imagine that. They werent so out of touch after all. Thank you all. I appreciate it. Thats it for us tonight. Thanks for watching. See you right back here tomorrow. Audible has the Worlds Largest selection of audiobooks. Books like peak performance. And endurance. 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