Transcripts For CNNW State Of The Union 20150111

Because terrorist cells have been activated within the country in the past 24 hours. The french government says that massive security measures are in place, with more than 2,000 soldiers and Police Officers deployed along the march route. The terrorist attacks in paris raises fresh concerns about security here in the United States and the vulnerability of socalled soft targets. Im joined now by senator Dianne Feinstein, the top democrat on the Senate Intelligence committee. Thanks so much for being here with us today. The head of British Intelligence this week said something that was chilling. He said that the world should be prepared for a possible mass casualty attack. Whats your read on that . You see these intelligence reports. Do you feel the same way . As far as i know after looking at the reports ive seen there is no credible defined threat of that. I think this is within the realm of possibility. I think were in an allout situation. France has declared war. What that means, im not quite sure but were going to see. Whats an appropriate response then if theyve declared war . Whats the retaliation . Thats not for me to decide. Thats for france to decide. I think what theyre saying is there will be a unified National Effort to rid the country of terrorists and thats difficult to do because theyre deeply embedded. I think there are sleeper cells not only in france but certainly in other countries, and yes, even in our own. So i think this calls for vigilance. It calls for seeing that the National Security organizations of our country, of the Intelligence Community, is funded fully, is directed ably is cooperating with whether it be British Intelligence french intelligence german intelligence, as we do, and the french are good at it and so are the british, and the germans. So hopefully we can even be more active in terms of doing those things which enable us to find terrorists to see who theyre communicating with in this country, and to try that. Well youre responsible for intelligence oversight. Do you believe the Intelligence Community here keeps better track than the french did on those people who traveled to yemen, and they just kind of went off the radar screen. Do you believe we do a better job of it here . To the best of my knowledge, the french have more than we do. So how do you explain this failure . The expectation has been that the foreign fighters coming back from syria or even iraq train, to some extent will likely first go to the european community. So how do you explain this failure. The problem comes well this is extraordinarily difficult to do. They had these people under surveillance for a substantial period of time. Umhum. There are a lot of pressures. I dont know what the financial situation is. I dont know whether theyve had cutbacks or what, but this has to now be allout, and if war means anything its allout intelligence. The way you stop this is intelligence and the way intelligence works is to disrupt the plot before it takes place. Because they were french citizens these terrorists could have come here. They were on a nofly list. Thats correct. But they could have come here with just their passports under the u. S. Visa waiver program. So if the u. S. Fly list had not stopped them they could have landed here. So is the visa program a hole in the security net . This is not new for me. I serve on the Judiciary Committee as well and its my belief, and ive said this publicly many times, that the Visa Waiver Program is the achilles heel of america, because youre right, gloria. They can come back from training they go through a visa waiver country and they come into this country. Now, there are nofly lists, there are terrorist lists, but theyre in the tens of thousands and even millions so its difficult to ferret someone out. There are stolen travel documents, large numbers that they can pick up a false passport et cetera. So we have a big problem there. I think we need to take a look at the Visa Waiver Program again, and see what we can do to prevent this kind of thing from happening. Because i believe it will happen if it hasnt already. When the president spoke about his antiisis Campaign Last fall he said that he was going to he compared his strategy to the one that the u. S. Had successfully pursued in yemen and somalia for years. Looking at what happened in paris this week and looking at the connections between emwhyyemen and these terrorists was the president on the wrong track with that example . Well i dont quite know what he was referring to. Yes. So its hard for me to comment, but yemen, you know we have a very serious bombmaker still alive. They are now putting out propaganda for the most serious kind of bombmaking target list planes to bomb where to sit on the plane, and this material circulates freely throughout the internet. It is comprehensive. Ive just reviewed it and its a very deep concern to me. Now, what you do about this, i dont know. Is it a problem in terms of recruitment . I believe it is a big problem. So could you sensor the internet . Could you say these things should not be allowed on the internet . I dont know. I did the bombmaking legislation thats now law waysbased on the terrorist handbook in the 90s, and if you have knowledge and intent that your material is in fact going to be used for an attack it is a felony. The Justice Department has prosecuted a few people for this not a lot. They say its very difficult, as we know, but thats where we are. When you have a recipe for a very serious bomb out there on the internet, you need to deal with it because we know the people who put it there intend to have it used for a criminal act. Let me just switch topics on you for one quick second about general petraeus. You have worked with general petraeus. There are reports that the Justice Department prosecutors may have a document on the attorney generals desk recommending prosecution. Would an indictment be appropriate as far as youre concerned and has this been handled appropriately. Let me say what i think. This man has suffered enough in my view. Hes the fourstar general of our generation. I saw him in iraq. He put together the army field manual. He put together the awakening and how it worked out. He i think is a very brilliant man. People arent pefb. He he made a mistake. He lost his job as a cia director because of it. I mean, how much do you want to punish somebody . I dont know if i believe he directly gave material to her or not. I know she had access to classified data by her own classification, so its murky, but be that as it may, its done. Its over and hes retired. Hes lost his job. I mean how much does government want . So i hear you saying that he shouldnt be indicted. I think thats correct. Senator feinstein, thanks so much for being here today as always. Thank you. Lets go to paris to jake tapper where almost 1 Million People are attending that unity march we spoke of before. So jake, what do things look like now from your perch . Reporter bonseur, mad moye sell bonseur. We are here in paris at the Place De La Republique which is where this rally is beginning. Weve been here for hours now as the crowd went from dozens to hundreds to thousands to now tens of thousands. It has been cold taken hasand it has been rainy but i have to tell you the feeling here is warm. It is a crowd that is excited, it is a crowd that is united. They just finished singing the marseilles the National Anthem in france sorry for botching the pronunciation of that. For the third time theyve been chants who are you, charlie who are you, charlie. There are flags from countries all over the world, even a flag from the state of california here. People here Holding Signs saying not only i am charlie standing of course for Charlie Hebdo, the french satirical magazine where 12 innocent people were slaughtered by terrorists on wednesday, but also je suis ahmed, referring to the Muslim Police officer killed wednesday, je suis jewish talking about solidarity for the four jews targeted and killed in that Kosher Grocery store on friday. There is a lot developing behind the scenes when it comes to investigation in the terrorist attacks. Obviously one of the suspects one of the terrorists Amedy Coulibaly released a video in which he pledged allegiance to isis that was released earlier today. But beyond that beyond the hate and the investigation into the terrorism, this is really a remarkable scene of the country of france coming together with World Leaders, ranging from british Prime Minister David Cameron to israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to the Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas, leaders from turkey germany, eric holder the u. S. Attorney general here. Sure. Reporter all coming together standing with france saying jake reporter we will not be bowed. Jake does it have a feeling, you were in this country as was i for 9 11. Does it have that sort of same sense that we witnessed in this country when every member of congress came out on the steps of the capitol and sang together and you know, the feeling in this country was very much one of unity, one of fighting back one of not letting the terrorists take charge . Reporter you know i remember the immediate days after 9 11 being a little bit more fearful, because, a, it was such a shock to the system so new, at least to people in the United States, including myself the concept of terrorism striking on our shores. Sure. Reporter but also because the loss of life was so massive. It reminds me a little bit more of the rally outside the white house after bin laden was killed. Umhum. Reporter after it was announced that sunday evening, when all those people spontaneously organically came to the white house and said usa usa its almost that kind of feeling, a pride, a defiance of saying, we will not be on our knees, as the late editor of Charlie Hebdo once said id rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Thats more the spirit i think. Everybody is standing up for him and all the others who lost their lives. Thanks so much jake. Well be coming back to you. But when we come back attorney general eric holder on what steps the u. S. 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I spoke with him a short while ago about the paris incident. Mr. Attorney general, thanks so much for being here with us this morning, from paris. Americans have watched in shock and horror as events unfolded in france this week. Did anything about the nature and the sophistication of this attack surprise you . Well certainly were horrified by what happened and we express our condolences to the french people but i think what we saw in france over the course of this last week is unfortunately what were going to have to confront into the future. We have seen these kinds of attacks, or attempts at these kinds of attacks certainly in the United States. Weve seen things like this in the united kingdom. Weve seen this in nairobi and australia and canada. This is the nature of the new threat that we must confront. We can, i think, successfully confront it if we share information in a way that perhaps we have not in the past and do a variety of other things but i am very concerned about what we saw this week in france. Were now being told today that one of the terrorists has activated other sleeper cells in france. Do you believe that all of these terrorists are part of a larger sleeper cell operation . Well the french have the lead on this investigation, and i would defer to them as to what their investigation has so far uncovered. What i will say is that the United States is working with our french counterparts as best we can sharing Law Enforcement information with them sharing intelligence information with them making available to them the information that we have in our various databases, and im confident they will ultimately be able to determine exactly who was responsible for these acts and roll up all of the people who were in fact involved. Should we assume there are similar sleeper cells in the United States . Yes . No . Well, one of the things that we are constantly doing is looking at the body of people who we are concerned about in the United States use legitimate means to monitor their activities. We dont stereotype but we are constantly looking at those people to make sure that we are doing all the things that we can to keep the American People safe in stopping them from engaging in the kinds of activities that we saw here in france this week. One terrorist is still on the run and shes apparently headed to syria, if shes not there already. Do you have her in your sights . Well were working with our allies. We have looked at the number of westerners who have gone to syria. We focus mostly on the americans who have gone to syria, about 150 or so have gone to sear yar or attempted to do that syria and iraq. We think there are 12 there now who are actually engaged in the fight, but we work with our allies allies. We share information and one of the things that we frankly have to do better. We have to monitor each others citizens because the reality is that any one nation can be hurt by the citizens of another nation given the way in which people can transit from one country to another. So the french seem to concerns about american citizens and french citizens have to be shared by all. The french seem to have lost track of two of these terrorists let them off their radar. Was that an intelligence failure and do you worry that could happen here, because as you point out, you have people who have traveled to yemen, for example, who are in the United States so if the french lost track of these folks, could do . Its too early to say what happened here. There will have to be abaction report and analysis of exactly what was done correctly, what was done incorrectly. We try to do in the United States the best we can, in monitoring those people who we are most concerned about. We also have to understand that we have lone wolves people who act as individuals, and who kind of float under the radar screen and who are potentially going to do things that are harmful to the American People. We do all that we can. We work with our state and local counterparts to monitor these people. We ask the American People themselves to see something and to share that information so i think that were doing a good job but were doing well, that well have to see. Were dealing at this point the french are dealing with just the impact of the heinous acts that occurred last week as the investigation unfolds, im sure that they will make determinations as to what the extent of any other peoples involved. And let me just ask you, from your read of this aqap, al qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has claimed responsibility for the paris attack and one of the brothers as we know trained in yemen. Do you believe that aqap ordered, paid for and coordinated this . We dont have any credible information at least as yet to indicate who was responsible, who sponsored this act. That is clearly one of the things that we have to make a determination of. I will say this that aqap remains the most dangerous of the al qaeda cells, the al qaeda organizations, and we are constantly focused on them. Let me just switch subjects here for a little moment on you. There are reports that prosecutors in your department have recommended bringing felony charges against former cia director David Petraeus for sharing classified information with his mistress. Is that the case . Is that on your desk . That recommendation . Well, i dont want to comment on i dont want to comment on what is an ongoing matter. I will say that frequently those things that are leaked to the media are done so by people who are not in a position to know and are frequently inaccurate. So is it inaccurate . So let me leave it at that. Well john mccain says that this entire process has taken way too long as i said and that its been grievously mishandled. How would you respond to that . Well ive got Great Respect for senator mccain and senator graham who i understand sent a letter to me as well. We have done this investigation, i think, in an appropriate way, and appropriate determination will be done, and it will be done in a way that i think the American People will ultimately decide what was fair to everyone who was involved. Attorney general eric holder thanks so much for being with us this morning. Thank you. And the paris attacks have launched a new round of criticism here in the u. S. About president oobamas foreign policy. With me now is the man we were just talking about, senator john mccain chairman of the Armed Services committee and also a member of the Homeland Security committee. Thanks so much for being with me this morning, senator mccain. We will get to paris. Let me just have you respond to what eric holder said on general petraeus. He said that this investigation has been handled appropriately. You say its been grievously mishandled. Gloria is it appropriate to leak information that is supposed to be kept sealed until a decision is made . The recommendation not the decision its a violation of any Citizens Rights to have that information leaked much less a man as Dianne Feinstein just said that is a genuine American Hero and by the way, i dont know if theres guilt or innocence. I might add as an aside, classified information is leaked to the media every day in our nation Nations Capital but thats beside the fact. Senator Dianne Feinstein didnt think he should in fact be indicted. Well i think that look, i cant make that judgment because i dont know the information but i do know that this is one of the great honors of my life is to meet have known some great military leaders. This man is unique. He is one of the great leaders. Ask anybody who served under him. He was an architect of the surge which turned iraq around. He may have saved thousands of Young Americans lives, and obviously he deserves better treatment than have a leak to the New York Times about a recommendation which is a violation of his rights and any Citizens Rights. Okay and senator, thank you on that. Let me just switch now, if i might, to paris, the terror attack there, the unity rally weve been watching and is now up on our screen as well in paris. You just heard the attorney general eric holder saying that hes going to try to coordinate more with the french. There needs to be better coordination among all the allies. You have said that what occurred in france is a direct threat not only to europe but to the United States. Can you elaborate on that . Sure. I paid attention to what the head of British Intelligence mi5 said in his speech and others have said experts, that these, these organizations pose a direct threat pose a direct threat. Whether its an immediate threat or not, i dont want to get into wordsmithing but when mr. Baghdadi left our camp bukka after spending four years in iraq he said ill see new new york. He wasnt kidding. The point here is that im glad eric holder is keeping an eye on people and all that but this is because the result of leading from behind. This is the same organization these people are trained from that the president of the United States said yemen and somalia were success stories. We made when we didnt leave a sustaining force behind in iraq and when the president turned down the advice of his head National Security advisers not to arm the Free Syrian Army and a number of other decisions, that a laid the groupedwork for isis and now we have a situation where the largestndwork for isis and now we have a situation where the largest extremist caliphate in history is now in iraq and syria and we have no strategy we have no strategy to degrade or defeat it. Well you are calling for a coherent strategy to combat this global terrorist movement which were clearly witnessing but what would that be . Would that be more boots in syria, iraq afghanistan, yemen . What would that coherent strategy look like senator . Well, first of all, it would require some boots on the ground not like before but we certainly need air controllers. We havent been able to drive isis out of a town called cowanie using the full weight or american airpower for several months now. We lost 86 brave americans and 400 wounded to take fallujah. Thats onetenth the size of mosul. Isis right now is winning, and we need to go after them and we need to have more boots on the ground. We need to understand that syria and iraq are the same. We need to arm the Free Syrian Army and we need to man the nofly zone and a coherent strat gthat can be presented to the congress because theyre going to be wanting an authorization for use of military force. Let me clarify that when you say boots on the ground do you mean intelligence . Do you mean combat . I mean intelligence. I mean forward air controllers. I mean traipertrainers. I mean more air assets. I mean across the board an increase and if you talk to any of our military experts, those not in the administration theyll tell you thats basically what we need and its fairly obvious what we need and its also obvious when the president did not leave a resid residual force behind as ryan crocker, bob xwaets and leon pa net ta said we could have that was the sem mole moment that led to the situation were in today, the Largest Terrorist Organization in history, so i appreciate eric holder keeping an eye on people that come and go but the fact is as long as the incubeiator is there were going to have people who are going to try to do what they did in paris a few days ago. Senator, before i ask you another question, i want to point out to our viewers what theyre seeing on the screen which is a picture now of all the World Leaders, more than 50, who are linking arms and are marching in unity against terror down the streets of paris. Its quite an astonishing view you see, Angela Merkel there with hollande. Let me get back to you, senator, on this. If you put boots, if you put intelligence on the ground how does that stop what attorney general holder called the lone wolves the folks who are being radicalized over the internet as senator feinstein was talking about, those people who are uneducated perhaps, may be poor may be looking for some kind of salvation in another world, and how will that stop those people because thats what some folks are saying the kouachi brothers may have been and how can you combat all of the activity and what the british director of intelligence called all those dark places . Well first of all, we have to have every muslim cleric in the world, especially in the west condemn this as a violation of the koran, and an honorable and decent religion. That has to happen and it hasnt been happening. Second thing is obviously we have to try to track these people but look its a threat the lone wolf. It is a serious threat but thats far different from sleeper cells manned by people who were trained as one of these young men was in yemen, the success in yemen trained in yemen and training them right now in syria, where we have refused to help the Free Syrian Army. Theyre killing more than we are training and we have to go to the heart of it because theres one thing to have a lone wolf and thats bad, but far worse is a person who has been trained and equipped and sent on a specific mission. Thats where you get the big attacks. And senator, this female suspect as we know is probably on her way to syria, if shes not there already. Yes, and obviously there was at least some training. The nature of that attack showed a degree of professionalism that no lone wolf could have carried out, and right now, in Training Camps throughout particularly syria, where we are leaving bashar assad alone with some incredible hope that the iranian iranians will work with us which is bizarre but right now in syria, they are training people to go back to the country they came from and commit acts of terror. That was the view of the head of British Intelligence not just mine. Okay senator, thanks so much for being with us this morning, because now were going to go back to paris where jake tapper is. Jake weve been looking at these powerful pictures. Can you tell us a little bit more about what youre seeing from your Vantage Point . Reporter well im in the thick of it here at the Place De La Republique where the crowds have gathered. The unity rally and march is set to begin at any moment and you can see these pictures. Now people are starting to walk. You can see these pictures of, ads you say, very moving images of various World Leaders, palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, german chancellor Angela Merkel french president Francois Hollande Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of israel starting to walk from here the Place De La Republique and i believe they go north to the place de la nationale. There will be a couple of different pathways. Security is very intense here gloria but the sentiment is strong. Rain and cold and wind has not done anything to dissuade the crowd from being here and being excited to be here gloria. One can only imagine with all these heads of state netanyahu there for example. I know eric holder is representing the United States youre talking about the security being massive, but do you get any sense among the crowds that theres any fear of anything occurring, given what went on in paris this week . Reporter i have not been able to discern any fear at all. In fact quite the opposite defiance by being here. People are saying were here were strong were not going anywhere and you know when you walk down the Street Holding a sign saying je suis charlie i am charlie, reference to the french satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, saying i dont care what you think, terrorists im standing here and standing up for the values represented by this country. It is a very stirring very moving display of solidarity and defiance by the people here hundreds of thousands now have gathered here. Gloria i want to take one note to note a development, which is that rtl radio, a french radio here is reporting that paris police have told them they found Amedy Coulibaly, the terrorist who killed the policewoman on thursday and then took the hostages killing four innocent people at the kosher supermarket on friday that they found an apartment that he was renting and they found a stash that included automatic weapons, detonators cash as well as isis flags. Theyre right now testing to see if they can find any evidence any forensic evidence that hayat b boumeddiene, that is the woman, his girlfriend also wanted, now thought to be in turkey or syria, whether she was there recently. Thats just the latest on the investigation, gloria. Jake youre talking about isis flags that he has. The other two seem to be aqap in yemen. I guess the question we have this morning is whether it actually has become such a Global Movement that it doesnt, the distinctions are blurring or whether these groups are competing with each other now for recruits. Reporter well the counterterrorism experts with whom ive been speaking both here in france and back in the United States this morning, when i. You the that very question to them does this mean al qaeda, aqap and isis are working together theyve really said first of all reports of a chasm between the two were perhaps overstated. Its more like a power rivalry, not that al qaeda has been so much disapproving of isis tactics, as has been reported and also that this seems to at the very least be a matter of what senator condition can bejohn mccain was referring to not necessarily coordinated in syria and yemen, but more individuals put, who have selfmotivated selfradicalized gone to france and organized, gloria. Thanks so much jake. Well see you again at the top of the hour to talk more about this. Reporter thanks, gloria. For more i have two people who know about as much about counterterrorism as anybody i can think of thats jeremy bash former chief of staff to leon panetta at the cia at the Defense Department and Fran Townsend who ran Homeland Security at the white house for george bush and is now a cnn contributor. You heard what i was just talking to jake about which is isis aqap. Are we now in a world where theyre competing for each other, and this is a recruitment tool what we saw in france or are they all under the same banner at this point . Ill start with you, jeremy. Well i think theyre wolves. They may not be lone wolves. I think theyre acting somewhat in concert with each other. The individual who took hostages at the supermarket clearly was doing that to help his buddies who were across town at printing factory. So there is coordination. I think the fact that the individual at the kosher supermarket had pledged allegiance to isis and the others had clearly met with awlaki and gone to yemen and pledged allegiance to aqap i think thats disturbing. I think it shows this is a global anymad this is a networked jihad and they will cooperate when it suits their end. Cooperate with each other rather than competing with each other. Thats right, remember they share this ideology right, at its core this is a radical extremist, violent version and because they share that, there will be instances where they compete but their tactics and ideology are things they share. Jeremy if you were at langley right now, and you were advising the cia director what would you be red flagging here . We had a rant this morning from the terrorist who took the hostages at the kosher market. Weve had a link with abdulmutallab, the underwear bomber. So what would you be red flagging over at the agency now . What are they doing . I think we first and foremost have to be looking at any individuals who have connections with any of these suspects so the analysts out at langley and the National Counterterrorism center in Northern Virginia are scrutinizing all of our terrorist databases looking at travel looking at communications trying to understand who in the United States may have been in touch with these individuals and also whether we have any information that we can share with french authorities, with british authorities, with german authorities. Was this a french failure of intelligence . Fundamentally, when you lose 17 individuals in broad daylight its a failure and no leader is proud of that moment. I think only time will tell to determine the extent of the failure, whether in fact if they had these people under surveillance probably some electronic surveillance, listening to the phones and watching what they write and communicate but probably they didnt have them under physical surveillance surveillance and thats really an issue that the intelligence agencies dont have the resources to do that for everybody. Is the physical surveillance a problem in this country as well . We dont have the manpower we dont have the resources. We have budget cuts. Thats right, gloria but lets at least have one glimmer of good news and the good news is we have far fewer we believe, based on what eric holder told you this morning and the Intelligence Community said far fewer we have to worry about. When you ask about what should we be doing right now, the other thing is we know that one of the kouachi brothers trained at eman university under awlaki in sanai yemen. This was a known recruiting and training school. Boy, oh boy, we ought to go back to see what americans trained there, where are they and what surveillance do we have against individuals who can pose a direct threat to the United States. Do you presume that the cia is looking at those links between americans and these terrorists in france as well as people who attended this university . Absolutely. And i think theyre looking at all those connections and theyre looking at the individuals who have traveled back and forth to syria. Theyre looking at whether these people have links inside the United States and theyre also going back and probably analyzing all the links to the aqap network that sent abdulmutallab on Christmas Day 2009 to blow up northwest flight 253 and detonate that underwear bomb that i saw a government demonstration of what that bomb would look like. That would have knocked the plane out of the sky. I have no doubt. Well he met with one of these brothers, correct . He may have roamed with oneomed with one of the brothers and everybody will be unpacking, pulling the threads on sharing information and that basic blocking and tackling of intelligence work that will help us tisdisrupt the plot. Abdulmutallab is in the Supermax Prison somewhere. Do you presume we are reinterrogating him about his links to these terrorists . Sure american investigators are trying to do just that north to be able to understand what that relationship is what additional they may be able to learn about his movements and his contacts inside yemen, when they were together. Now, two of these men were on the nofly list. So thats great because we know they could not have gotten into this country. But generally they can roam on their eu passports around europe something that Dianne Feinstein was talking about that really worries her, this visa issue, and particularly if the knowfly list has holes in it taken could. How worrisome is that . I think its worrisome first of all, there are two issues. One is they can go between European Countries seamlessly because they carry these shagen visas which allow them to cross borders without getting visas for each country. Some countries dont require a visa to get into the United States. Really our own line of defense is to ensure they are on a nofly list and there are responsible Airline Security and Airline Officials at the airlines and airports who can stop them. So i want to bring in eirshad manji who can talk to us a little bit about how muslims have not been assimilated in france the way they may be assimilated in this country and that contributes to the problem france had that hopefully we will not have here. It doesnt help the fact in france although it is a democracy there is a dogma that dont we dont experience here in the United States. [ speaking in Foreign Language ] which translates into secularism but is not the secularism as in separation of church and state that we know here rather french secularism is more of a disappearance of religion all together. So that many muslims, including young muslims, who may not be particularly religious, in fact most are not, nonetheless feel quite stifled in that area of their lives. On the other hand gloria and this is where some of the good news some of the optimism should come to play in you know the rate of intermarriage between muslims and nonmuslims in france is high and is only growing, and historically intramarriage is a great indicator of integration. It also keeps a check on each of the parties, you know communities, and the most extremist elements in them. So again that piece of the story will never make the news where the visuals what is the sensationalism behind it . But lets not forget this is a Bigger Picture here. You may be saying its a generational issue, as much as people like fran and jeremy are out there fighting this terrorism that, in fact it may take a generation or two. Precisely. To i cant begin to tell you how many messages i get from young muslims around the world, including in frabsnce who say that we are going to be raising our children with the values represented by reformist islam. Were going to go to paris for a moment. Were going to go to Fred Pleitgen who is in the middle of the massive rally there. You see there are more than 50 state leaders there rallying in defiance of the terror that struck paris this week. Fred from your Vantage Point, tell me what its like. Reporter well its absolutely amazing, gloria. Were right in the middle of this massive march called the unity march. Im actually marching with the folks right now and what theyre obviously showing is that in the aftermath of what happened here the past couple days of the horrible attacks, france as a nation is not going to allow itself to be divided. They want to show unity and thats exactly what this rally is about its about unity of the nation really people here were telling me is that after what happened here after the terror attacks they believed that france had two possibilities. They were either going to let themselves be divided by the radical forces obviously on the one hand you have the radical islamists you have here and the radical right wing that you have in france but they say instead they want to show unity so what theyre doing right now is beginning this march and it is absolutely amazing to see how many people came here because remember its a fairly impromptu organization here. Theres no speakers here. Theres no stage or anything. Theres a couple people here in the middle of the Place De La Republique who were sort of leading the chants a little bit, but they dont have any sound system. Nevertheless this crowd is absolutely on the same page with the way that they talk with the chants that they give and all of them are about unity. All of them is about not being intimidated, freedom of the press, freedom of speech and of course generally liberty, the freedom that france stands for and thats so important as a french value. So it is a positive vibe thats come from here as you can see the french flag sort of dangling over my head, thats the vibe coming from the people the reaction to all of this is going to be one of trying to unite everybody in france the Jewish Community, the Muslim Community and of course the Christian Community as well. They see that as something that is very important, and something that certainly is under threat gloria. A tremendous showing of National Unity. Thanks so much. Well be getting back to you later. Let me go to my panel here. First to you, jeremy bash. When you do have this sort of outpouring, as you have in france how does that affect intelligence operations . Do people become more aware, more supportive, more willing to fund . More willing to surveil after going through Something Like this . Or not . I i ni you put your finger on a very good point. At moments on 9 11 the public in general has lost focus on the threat. And this has kind of waxed and waned in our country and in the public dialogue in the last 13 years and at times of danger and at times when we see terrorist attacks, there have been more support for more aggressive intelligence operations but then when we go through several months where we dont have an attack you hear choices saying why do we have to have more security, why do we have to have so much intelligence . I think this is a wakeup call. The interNational Unity is i think is the exactly right message to send that we have to be united we have to come together and we have to be forceful and aggressive in our confrontation of these terrible terrible, evil forces. Fran you sat at the white house. Talk about the coordination. I mean eric holder said earlier in the show well increase coordination. Theres going to be a meeting in midfebruary about increased i thought there was koord nationcoordination between the european allies and america in all our counterterrorism activities . Is there not enough . The french have been and the british very aggressive. Very strong allies a Good Exchange of information. But we know pre9 11 we evenally didnt share the way we should have. Do french operatives not like to share . Youre trained to keep secrets but the show of National Unity, what viewers are seeing on the screen whats most important to me from my time at the white house is youve got to harness that now, right . Its more than just showing up. You see King Abdullah and the queen of jordan. Where are the leaders of egypt and saudi and the emirates . Its their fight, too. I think its very important that its not just a show of unity. Youve got jeremy pointed out earlier to me you have Mahmood Abbas there, the Palestinian Leader who just cut a deal with hamas, a terrorist organization. Its more than just showing up gloria. Its kind of interesting he is actually showing up though. Thats right. But you got to do more than show up. Its not i can tell you all that having been on the receiving end of Death Threats myself for writing about the need for refortunatelyre reform reform i have sometimes received information about those threats from journalists before i have received them from either the fbi or from other Police Forces around the world. Nypd by the way, the best Counterterrorism Force in the world as far as im concerned. Everybody else they need work. And i should say that you are the founder of the moral courage project, and i just want to ask all of you if a young person about who is in the process of being radicalized is watching this picture that is so stunning to us, whats the reaction of that person . Wouldnt it just inspire more defiance if youre already sort of on the road to being radicalized . It may unite us but what does it do to the young radical . Its hard to get inside that individuals head and on some level, gloria i think we have to be kind of radically honest. On the fridge of this islamic fringe is a death cult. Its a stop at nothing, they dont share any of our values. Theyre not going to look to do anything and there are terrorists around the world who fan that emotion and that movement. And so theres very little we can do other than frankly, gird ourselves for a fight and take them off the battlefield. But then theres a whole other swath of individuals who are wondering, hey, wait a second do they have a point here . Is there something here in it for me . Is there something im attracted to . Thats where i think, frankly martyrdom. Muslim voices need to take the lead in explaining the faith of i was lanl isslam is not one that preaches radicalism. This is why part of what the moral Courage Program does we run a Worldwide Network of advisers who are available to anybody, including any muslim who is struggling with faith and has questions about faith. We are trying therefore, to be on the front lines of preempting violence that might occur if we werent there. But, you see, this is where support from governmentintelligence forces from governments, from private corporations that might be able to finance some of the work that my kind of a network does were all in it together. A lot of people assume that fran does what she does and jeremy does what he does and, you know, im appreciative of them all but i cant contribute not true. Everybody has a role in this. Well fran you heard john mccain earlier talk about coming up with a coherent strategy out of the white house which he believes the white house has not had. He believes that you need more boots on the ground in a lot of places. Hes not talking combat. Hes talking counterterror. Is he right . Well there are several aspects to this right . You absolutely need a coherent military strategy to attack the problem. But that has to be accompanied by as we saw, all tools of national power. A diplomatic financial sanctions, intelligence in Law Enforcement, and that then has to be integrated with your allies. You have to be working off common sets of objectives about whats the intelligence youre going after and how do you collect it. How do you deconflict and leverage assets that are limited. You need more intelligence on the ground. Absolutely you need more intelligence on the ground. And jeremy, youre agreeing. Absolutely. Im kind of oldfashioned on this. I think if theres a no kidding plot out there the only thing that will stop it is recruiting an agent to go into the plot and report back to us. Its impossible to do for all the nation plots and all the people who are thinking about should i take up arms against so you dont think what happened in france was a gamechanger . You think its more of the same that weve seen or i do think its a big wakeup call. As we see in these pictures it has been. And its creating this International Movement now to really wake up the world to the threat of radical islamic the global jihad. And i think that is not only a wakeup call but also an opportunity here for us to put more resources behind our security our Law Enforcement, our intelligence. Look congress is now working trying to work out funding for the Homeland Security bill and thats going to be something thats going to happen over the next couple weeks and it remains to be seen whether congress will fund it. Homeland security actually funds the security for a lot of our organizations inside the United States. If youre a nonprofit, you need that money. Yeah. And you need that money to fight proper. Right now well take a look at these pictures in paris. Theyre astonishing. Were going to go to Christiane Amanpour and jake tapper who are right there on the scene of this amazing and inspirational rally. Good afternoon from paris. Im Christiane Amanpour along with my colleague jake tapper. It is a historic day for france. A human tidal wave millions of people have come out to say no to the bar barity that struck this nation on wednesday. Its been quite a week here starting with the attacks on the french satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, but right now you see a demonstration of support from World Leaders. You see Benjamin Netanyahu on the left there, the Prime Minister of israel. Towards the right side Mahmoud Abbas and in the middle Francois Hollande arm in arm with german chancellor Angela Merkel. This is a unique sight. We have seen this many World Leaders circling in france linking arms walking in solidarity and in unity to say no to the bar barity that struck this nation and to join what is at least a million so far and they expect millions more. In the center of your picture, the president of france the chancellor of germany. Perhaps the president of mali just next door. The Foreign Ministers and leaders of western europe. The king and queen of jordan. And as jake pointed out the Prime Minister of israel Benjamin Netanyahu and in the same row the president of the Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas. As the french Prime Minister said today, we are not just all charlie. We are all police. We are all jews. We are all french today. As the French Foreign minister said there is no democracy without freedom and there is no freedom without freedom of the press. This is personal for our community. It was journalists doing an honest days work who were slaughtered in cold blood on wednesday midday here in france and on friday the gunmen turned their sights on the Jewish Community at the hyper cacher market in the port de vincennes and five people were killed. The Prime Minister of israel benjamin nntetanyahu said to jews in frabsnce, we are your ref few. The Prime Minister of france has said there is no france without jews. The four jewish men killed at the kosher superintendent have been invited their families have been invited to bury them in the state of israel the jewish state. Its been inspiring, christiane and i have been here