Transcripts For CNNW State Of The Union With Jake Tapper 20200419

Fourth straight week. And struggling americans are running out of options. Is more help on the way . Treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin and Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer join me to discuss in moments. Hello, im jake tapper in washington where the state of our union is waiting for relief. Today marks 50 days, 50 days since the first coronavirus death in the United States, a day on which the Vice President of the United States told me, quote, were ready. It is now devastatingly clear we are not ready. More than 39,000 americans are dead as of this minute, a number that has nearly doubled in the last week. Its a toll that has left the nation desperate for relief from the Ongoing Public Health crisis and mounting economic losses. And the Public Health battle, there are more encouraging signs that social and physical distancing measures are working to flatten the curve in the nations hospital spots. But governors in states across the country say they still do not have the testing needed to begin to safely reopening despite the Trump Administrations assurances that testing is, quote, sufficient. On the economic front, the numbers are frankly overwhelming. More than 22 million americans have filed for unemployment in the last month. On thursday the Program Designed to help rescue Small Businesses ran out of money, leaving desperate people at the mercy of ongoing political negotiations between the Trump Administration and Democratic Leaders on capitol hill. And lets start there. Joining me now, the treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin. Secretary mnuchin, thanks for joining us. I hope everyone in your world is safe and healthy. Its been 72 hours now since the Small Business administrations Paycheck Protection Program ran out of funds for emergency Small Business loans, having gone through some 349 billion. Democrats say they want to make sure the next tranche of money goes to underserved Small Businesses and mom and pop shops as opposed to big chains such as ruths chris steakhouse and potbelly. Are you going to try to fix that . Where are you in negotiations . Jake, its gareat to be with you. I think were making a lot of progress. Ive had multiple conversations over the weekend with the leadership in the senate and house. I spoke to Chuck Schumer this morning, i know hes on after. I think were making a lot of progress. On the ppp program, three weeks ago the president signed the law, we had the program up and running in a week, which was unprecedented. Its impacted now over 30 million americans. Let me just comment, the Community Banks have done an extraordinary job. 60 of the loans have been approved by banks that have 10 billion of assets and below, and 20 with 1 billion and below. So the Community Banks have done a terrific job here getting these longdistance approved. Loans approved. Two weeks ago you promised businesses, if you cant get the loan, dont worry, there will be money. Some analysts and experts tell cnn that ultimately the Paycheck Protection Program might need upwards of 1 trillion. What do you think . I dont think thats the case. Were incredibly pleased with the participation rate. And because of that, we Want Congress to approve more funds right away. We think that another 300 billion, thats what were talking about, should be sufficient to reach almost everybody. And let me just comment, weve also reached an agreement on sba disaster loans. So there will be another 50 billion appropriated which can do over 300 billion in disaster loans. These two programs are unprecedented response to Small Businesses, which i think, you know, is about 50 of the american workforce. When do you think the deal will be done, when do you think there will be an agreement and Small Businesses that werent able to get in on the first 349 billion will be able to get some funding that they desperately need . Im hopeful that we can reach an agreement that the senate can pass this tomorrow, and that the house can take it up on tuesday. Wednesday we would be back up and running. Oh, so you think a deal might be done today . Im hopeful. I think were very close to a deal today. Im hopeful that we can get that done. Democrats are also pushing, as you know, for more funding for hospitals and for state governments in this bill. Republican governor larry hogan of maryland says, quote, without sufficient federal relief states will have to face the prospect of significant reductions to essential services, unquote. Will funding for hospitals and state governments be in this deal . Jake, hospitals are very important. These are really the people who are the front line. And we have two issues. We have, one, the issue of hospitals that are overwhelmed with covid patients. But we also have hospitals that are doing no business because theres no elective surgery. So this is really an issue that impacts hospitals across the board. The good news is, in the last bill we have 100 billion thats allocated. Ive been working very closely with mark meadows who is overseeing this for the white house. Weve already distributed a lot of money. And weve agreed to have another 75 billion in this bill. Plus an unprecedented investment in testing. I know everybody is talking about testing. Were talking about a 25 billion federal program, money that can be used with the states, with new technology, to invest in testing. So it sounds as though theres going to be money for testing, money for hospitals, money for Small Businesses, but it doesnt sound like local and state funding will be in this bill. The president has heard from governors and is prepared to discuss that in the next bill. Right now we have a lot of money were distribute to go the states, 150 billion, weve distributed half, well distribute the other half. The president is willing to consider this in the next bill but wants to get this over the finish line with focus on Small Businesses, hospitals, and testing. Two threads seem to be emerging in the business community. I know you have a lot of relationships there. Some Business Leaders say the economy needs to open up now so people can provide for their families, even if testing isnt exactly where it should be yet. Other Business Leaders say we need to reopen the economy but we need to do it once, the right way, even if it means waiting until testing is up to speed. Where do you fall in these two camps . I was on the phone with the president this week. I think you know he spoke to over 150 Business Leaders. He spoke to governors. He spoke to republicans, he spoke to democrats in both the house and the senate. And everybody agrees we need more testing, were now up to about a million tests a week we can do which i think people should give people a lot more confidence. That is ramping up very quickly. As the president has said, hes now put in place federal guidelines to make sure we have a procedure to open up states. Some states will be ready quickly, some states will take more time. The president s number one focus is the health of the American Public and the number two focus is the economy. And i think we have a very good plan to deal with both at this point. More than 22 million americans have filed for unemployment for the first time in just the last month, essentially erasing almost all of the jobs created since the great recession. Gdp is poised to plummet. How long do you think it will take for the u. S. Economy to recover . Will it be months or will it be years . Well, let me just say, you know, im very sympathetic to those who have been impacted by both the Health Issues and the economic issues. Weve shut down major parts of the economy, so its not a surprise. Theres a lot of people who are on unemployment. The good news is part of the last bipartisan bill, thats enhanced unemployment insurance. Theres also the direct deposit payments we started sending out last week. I would like to give a quick pitch for people to go to irs. Gov and click on get my payment. Weve had over 40 Million People authenticate there. We have 5 Million People who uploaded instructions. We ask more people to do that. That combined with the ppp is getting a lot of money into the economy and into the hands of americans. But do you think it will be months or years before the economy is back to the strong position it was before the pandemic . I think it will be months, i definitely dont think it will be years. We are going to conquer this virus, we are going to have terrific breakthroughs. I know not just on the testing but on the medical front, we begin to have virals. I think theres things that are being developed for vaccines which will take a little bit longer. But one of the things we heard is people want testing. People also will react very positively, they know if they get this disease there will be medical treatments available as well. Now, you said two months ago that, quote, i dont expect that coronavirus will have an impact beyond this year. That was obviously two month ago. Looking forward, facebook has canceled events all the way through june 2021. The Congressional Budget Office says coronavirus could affect the Unemployment Rate through the end of 2021. The city of los angeles says it may not hold any concerts or sporting events until 2021. Isnt it almost certain at this point that the coronavirus will have an impact, im not saying as bad an impact as right now, but have something of an impact beyond this year . Jake, let me just say, this is an unprecedented time. Weve never been in a situation where weve closed down the economy. And i think, rightfully so, people are being cautious. On the other hand, as we get comfortable reopening the economy, i think well see a big rebound. Again, very sympathetic to the people, the americans who are impacted by this, the economic impact. I do think were all working very closely together and were going to get through this. You told lawmakers last month that the Unemployment Rate could theoretically climb as high as 20 if the u. S. Does not do enough to help the economy. Some estimates have put the current Unemployment Rate somewhere between 15 or 18 . Do you think its still possible that the Unemployment Rate could reach 20 . I think if were successful, if we get more money out to the ppp, we get more people hired back to work, we make progress on testing, we open up the economy, hopefully we wont be there. But the good news is the president has put in place with bipartisan support an Economic Program thats going to help americans get through this. Stimulus checks for 1,200 are being mailed out to Many Americans, some already have them through direct deposit, but theyre being mailed to help americans through this crisis. For the First Time Ever President Trumps name is going to appear on an irs check thats being put in the memo line because the president isnt authorized to sign the checks. Did the president personally suggest this idea . Well, let me just correct you and say the checks have not gone out yet, because were hoping that more people, as i said, will go to irs. Gov. Its much safer to send out direct deposits. As it relates to the president s name on it, the president could have been authorized to sign the checks. That would have slowed things down. We didnt want to do that. We did put the president s name on the check. That was my idea. He is the president , and, uh, i think its a terrific symbol to the American Public. I want to ask you just to follow up on a question i asked you earlier, ive been hearing from a lot of Business Owners, and im sure you have too, people who run like a small shop, not a chain, a small mom and pop restaurant, not a chain, and they say that its been much easier for the potbellys and the ruths chris steakhouse chains to get money, and if you dont have a relationship with a bank, its tougher to get these loans. I know this program was ramped up very quickly, but it does seem as though, when some Business Owners say is there some way we can make sure that Small Businesses, underserved communities, get these funds through paycheck protection, it does seem like they have a point. Is there anything in this bill that will help expedite this money to these people that might not have a preexisting relationship with a bank . Jake, thats something we did correct already last week. We wanted to make sure that the banks fairly allocated across the board. The one thing i will say is, because there are know your customer requirements, it was always going to take banks a little bit longer. Again, we couldnt be more pleased, the average loan size is about 250,000. So yes, there are some big businesses, that was in the bill. But let me say, the majority of these are going to Small Businesses. I heard stories from my local cleaners and other areas that were really pleased they were able to get these loans quickly. I know theres other people who are still waiting in line and were going to try to make sure all the banks get to them quickly in this next batch of money. Last question for you, sir, is Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell on board with the deal that youre optimistic could be cut today . Ive had constant discussions with him as well as kevin mccarthy, as well as the president and mark meadows. Were all on board with the same plan. Secretary mnuchin, thank you so much for your time, good luck, and i hope everyone in your world continues to stay healthy and safe. Thank you very much. As secretary mnuchin and congressional leaders are negotiating a new stimulus package, President Trump is attacking Senate Democrats motives. Joining me now, Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer, democrat of new york. Senator, thank you so much. I want to talk about this funding for Small Business loans, the program has run out of funding, as you know, because of provisions democrats want to add. Karen mills, former head of the Small Business administration under president obama, say democrats should go along and fund this program now, she says, quote, complexity is not our friend here, things that have to be implemented quickly cant have a lot of bells and whistles and we dont have time to delay. What do you say to karen mills . I would say the very things democrats are fighting for are now going into the bill. If you had a connection with a bank, it was pretty easy to get a loan. If you didnt, from one end of the country to the other we have been hearing that people cant get the loans. The local restaurant, the local barbersh barbershop, the local drugstore, even startup businesses, manufacturing or services, that arent happening. So we democrats said, yes, we want to put more money in but lets set aside money to make sure it goes to the rural areas, the minority areas, the unbanked. And the 60 billion for the disaster loan was our proposal and now the administration is going along with that. Setting aside a good chunk of the money, about half of it, so it goes to these unbanked people who dont have a connection with a bank or the smaller ones, was our proposal, and its going. To leave out a large, large segment, i would say half of the Small Business community, wouldnt have made sense. And now its going to happen because we democrats said lets get this done this way. So you agree with treasury secretary mnuchin that the deal could be done today and voted on in the senate tomorrow, the house on tuesday, and then signed by President Trump on wednesday . Well, Speaker Pelosi and i have had constant discussions with secretary mnuchin. Our staffs are meeting 24 7. Weve made very good progress. And im very hopeful we could come to an agreement tonight or early tomorrow morning. Youve got a lot of details, a lot of dotted is and crossed ts. But i am very, very hopeful. Many of the things weve asked for on the banking side, on the testing side, on the hospital side, theyre going along with. So we feel pretty good. We still have a few more issues to deal with. Lets talk about the testing. You were on the call with Vice President pence on friday when Senate Democrats grew increasingly frustrated with the administrations testing response. Did you get any indication from the call that the federal government has a coordinated plan to roll out testing and to make sure governors know where all the tests are . Okay. Let me talk about testing. Angus king, who is a mildmannered maine guy, was very upset. The president now said testing is up to the states. Theyve been back and forth on this. We democrats proposed in this package a 30 billion focused plan on testing. And we proposed three basic things. Money to go into both manufacturing and supply chains, to bolster them quickly. Weve proposed that we make free testing far more widespread. People avoid testing because they cant afford it, thats not good for the country. And third, we propose contact tracing. What we need here is the 30 billion and we need the focus from the president. The governors of our two states who are most impacted say they need federal help, they cant do the testing on their own. You talk to the business community, when republican and Democratic Senators were on with the president a few days ago, the number one call was for more testing and more federal involvement in the testing. You cant have it state by state. Lets say the swabs are made, and im just in california, and the machine, the little chemicals, are made somewhere else. You need the federal government to focus on it. I believe the federal government has not been focused enough on testing, thats why angus king was so upset. I think there is huge pressure for him to do it. I urged him to use the defense production act to get this money out, the way weve talked, 30 billion. But at least there ought to be one person appointed in charge and making sure theres a National Focus and effort on testing. I would say this, jake. Testing is the key. Every expert says it. Todays New York Times, one of the best experts says we only have about a third of the tests we need. We will not be able to get the economy going fullfledged unless we have testing. And we have examples, korea, south korea, i think they had a case, one day, the first case was within a day of each other in the u. S. And south korea, first case. But they did just what were calling for. They did a massive increase in the number of tests. They did contact tracing. And now south korea is way over the hump. We must do the same thing for the good of the health of america and the good of the economy. And then just a couple of more things. The money for Small Business, we said, we have four goals in the bill. One, money for testing. Two, money for Small Businesses, we discussed that. Three, money for hospitals. Our hospitals are in desperate shape. As the secretary said, theyre not doing elective surgery. In my state, st. Peters laid off 700 people. In albany, st. Josephs laid off 700 people. In syracuse, joe manchin says his hospitals will go bankrupt. We need that. The third thing we need is what the republican governors are calling for, money for state and local governments. And this is not abstract. Right, but its not going to be in there, you heard secretary mnuchin. He says that. We are pushing hard well, they said til the last minute that it wont be in covid 3, and we pushed for 150 billion and it got in. It is so important. We dont want our police, our firefighters, our emts, our bus drivers. This is not an abstract issue. We dont want them fired, theyre as important as anybody else. Were continuing to push hard for that in covid 3. 5. Let me ask you a question, because youre coming to us live this morning from one of the epicenters of coronavirus in the world, new york. Democrats have been very critical of how long it took President Trump to take serious action in the fight against coronavirus. But dr. Thomas freeden, former head of the centers for disease control, he told the New York Times if new york state and city had adopted social distancing and physical distancing a week or two earlier the death toll in new york could have been reduced from 50 to 80 . Didnt new york politicians drop the ball here too . Well, look. I think our governor and our mayor have done a great job. I think most of america agrees. Its very hard when you dont have the federal cooperation, when you have the president early on saying its a hoax, or it will go away, or dont worry about it, to get things done. I think our state and our city have done a terrific, terrific job, given that we were the epicenter. San francisco ordered schools closed on march 12th. Ohio did the same with five confirmed cases. On march 15, de blasio ordered new York City Schools to close with 329 cases. A new york state wide closure was announced. Could it have acted earlier . Again, we were the epicenter. There were so many things to do, getting ventilators so people dont die was important, getting ppe for Health Care Workers was important. There were many things that were very, very important. As i said, i think both cuomo and de blasio get very high marks for how theyve handled this. Congresswoman alexandria ocasiocortez this week did not rule out a possible 2022 primary run against you. Are you confident you could beat her . Look, throughout my career, ive done my job. Im totally focused on this covid. We are the epicenter. And i found throughout my career, you do your job well, Everything Else works out okay. All right. Minority leader Chuck Schumer, democrat of new york, thank you, sir, for your time. I hope everyone in your world is safe and healthy. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you, jake, and stay healthy too. As governors start to plan how their states might begin to reopen, what will the new normal look like . Maryland governor larry hogan will join me next. Plus the president is publicly attacking and undermining the efforts of three democratic governors. Two of them, Ralph Northam of virginia and Gretchen Whitmer of michigan, will join me next. Is that net carbs or total . Eh, not enough fiber chocolate would be good snacking should be sweet and simple. The delicious taste of glucerna gives you the sweetness you crave while helping you manage your blood sugar. Glucerna. Everyday progress for the same medications as the vet, but up to 30 percent less with fast free shipping. Visit petmeds. Com today. Welcome back to state of the union. Im jake tapper. President trump is egging on a small faction of protesters who say they want restrictions lifted. Hes also attacking democratic governors including my next guest, virginias democratic governor Ralph Northam. Governor northam, thank you for joining us. I want you to listen to President Trumps attack against you at his press briefing on saturday. People have to look at whats going on in virginia because thats a mess, with really a governor thats under siege anyway. Theyre trying to take that Second Amendment right away. To me thats liberty, thats, uh, when i say liberate virginia. Whats your response to President Trump, sir . Well, good morning, jake, thanks so much for having me on. I hope you and your viewers, your listeners are healthy. Our president obviously has been unable to deliver on tests. Now shes chosen to focus on protests. This is not the time for proteste protests, this is not the time for divisiveness. This is the time for leadership that will provide empathy and tell the country whats going on during this time of pandemic. Its the time for truth and the time to bring people together. Thats what ive done in virginia. Were filing a biological war. Weve been asked as governors to fight that war without the supplies we need. The governors have worked together to really increase the amount of ppe that wev echle w. Weve been competing for it, unfortunately. Weve been working every day to improve or testing ability. I command the governors. I have also commend virginians. Our checking on each other, our teachers are stepping up. Its an unbelievable response. Were in the middle of a Health Crisis right now, were also in the middle of an economic crisis. As soon as we can get this Health Crisis behind us, well be able to address the economic crisis and let people get back to their normal lives. Obviously you signed a number of sweeping gun control measures into law in the last few weeks, and President Trump has not made any secret that he disagrees with that. Governor jay inslee of Washington State says the language of liberate virginia that you heard from President Trump, in inslees view, it, quote, encourages illegal and dangerous act and could, quote, lead to violence. Do you agree . Weve had some terrible tragedies here in virginia, jake, with gun violence. As you know, in 2007 we lost 32 precious lives at virginia tech, over the memorial day weekend last year we lost 12 lives. I brought the legislature back to virginia for a special session. The republicans spent less than 90 minutes addressing gun violence. And virginians stood up, they said enough is enough. They said, the thoughts and prayers, we appreciate those but we want legislators who will come to richmond and take votes and pass laws. So i was pleased just this past week to sign seven pieces of common sense Gun Legislation that will keep virginians safe. So thats what happens when people listen, and theyve responded. Right now, jake, this is about this pandemic. Ill be glad to talk about gun violence and what weve done, but its time for virginia, for this country, to come together and address the lives that we are losing every day and to try to put this Health Crisis behind us. This week, you said your state, or rather your commonwealth, was slowing the spread of the virus but that the people would likely not see it happen until the end of the month. With the coronavirus cases continuing to climb in virginia, when do you think the economy could potentially start to open back up . Its a great question, jake. I think its something governors wrestle with every day. Today we had close to 20 new deaths. While were not seeing a significant increase, it looks like its flattening out a bit. So we would like to see at least two weeks of trending numbers going down. We want to make sure we have the ppe that we need in our hospitals, in our penitentiaries, in our nursing homes. We want to ramp up our testing capabilities. As soon as we see all these things coming together, well open up our businesses just as soon as we can. But we want to make sure we do it responsibly and we want to do it safely. As you know, youve been criticized for your handling of the crisis compared to your neighboring states. Robert mccartney from the Washington Post recently wrote, quote, one might assume a governor who spent most of his career as a physician, thats you, would be among the first to press for quick, Decisive Action to combat a deadly, fastspreading infectious disease. One would be mistaken. Its true that you only ordered a state of emergency after maryland and washington, d. C. Did so. You only issued a stayathome order after West Virginia and kentucky had done so. Do you wish you had acted earlier . Jake, saucas you said, i am physician, i served in desert storm, taking care of wounded soldiers. Ive been in tough situations in the er, saving and helping children and their families. We took aggressive steps in virginia. We were one of the first states to close down schools for the spring. We have a stayathome order through june 10. Weve asked our hospitals and our providers to stop elective surgeries so we can make sure we have the bed capacity, the supplies that we need. So, you know, weve taken some very aggressive steps. The social distancing, the good hygiene, the guidelines weve been providing, theyre working in virginia. And again, i am so proud of virginians for what theyre doing. And were going to get through this together. Jake, we came into this covid19 as a very strong commonwealth. We are the number one state in this country to do business. Ive reminded virginians weve going to come out of this strong as well. The president and the Vice President say the u. S. Has the Testing Capacity for states to open up, if you feel youre ready to go into phase i. Is that the case in virginia, do you have enough tests to do the tests you need to do . Jake, thats just delusional, to be making statements like that. Weve been fighting every day for ppe. We have supplies now coming in. Weve been fighting for testing. Its not a straightforward test. We dont even have enough swabs, believe it or not. And were ramping that up, but for the National Level to say we have what we need, and really to have no guidelines to the state levels is just irresponsible, because were not there yet. All right, Governor Northam, thank you so much for your time, come back, we would love to have you on to talk about other issues. Thank you so much, jake. President trump is pushing states to ease coronavirus restrictions even as his own medical advisers and many governors including my next guest say reopening the country right now still risks too Many American lives. Joining me now, marylands republican governor larry hogan. Governor hogan, its good to see you. I want to start with the news that in this bill, this legislation coming out that will fund some of the Small Business loans, its also going to fund testing, its also going to fund hospitals according to secretary mnuchin. But theyre not going to provide money for states. And i know youve been outspoken, i quoted you to secretary mnuchin, he said maybe in the next legislation will there be funding for states. Whats your response . First of all, were just hopeful that we can get all these parties to agree and put aside the partisanship in the u. S. Senate, get the administration and the senators on both sides of the aisle to reach some kind of a deal to get it done because we do need to get this money out for our Small Businesses, and certainly the hospitals need help as well. I spoke with secretary mnuchin several times last week. We also had a discussion with the president. While we were a little disappointed, the nga is pushing it wasnt just me but the National Governors association was pushing for this funding which is desperately needed for the states if we want to get this economic recovery moving, but they did commit to work with us in the fourth stimulus bill, the governors all across the country, republicans and democrats of the National Governors negotiatiassociation, pushing to get it done in this bill. I dont think the deal is finalized yet, but look, we dont want to hold up funding to Small Businesses. We hope the democrats and republicans in the senate can come together in a bipartisan way and get something moving for the american people. I know youve seen this video from takoma park, maryland, video from friday on local news that shows hundreds of marylanders lined up outside mega mart stores for a free food giveaway. Theyre obviously desperate. Many of them, im assuming, have no income at all because of the shutdown. What do you say to your constituents about when youre going to open up the state . What goes through your mind when you see the desperation evidenced in the video . Well, first of all, my heart goes out to all the people that are struggling. And weve been focused on this, its this twin problem of fighting to try to save peoples lives, but were also very concerned about the people not able to work and the Small Businesses that are hurting, which is why im a lifelong Small Business myself, i ran for governor because i was concerned about people losing their jobs. My goal was to try to get us open as quickly as we possibly can but in a safe way. The president s own guidelines say you should have 14 days of declining numbers before you start to consider phase i of a reopening. And we have increasing numbers every day here in the washington region. Governor northam, myself, mayor bowser in the district. So were not at the point yet where we can. But we have a very detailed reopening plan weve been working on for weeks. Were anxious to get people back to work. The folks that were lined up for food, look, it came from a good place, this Grocery Store was offering free bags of food, which is why so many people showed up. But they didnt coordinate with the local authorities, and you had some crowds, which was unfortunate. But look, weve put 8 million into local food banks to try to make sure that people were not going hungry. The first thing youve called for in order to reopen your state is an expansion of Testing Capacity. I want you to take a listen to what the Vice President and President Trump have said on that issue. We believe today that we have the capacity in the United States to do a sufficient amount of testing for states to move into phase i at the time and manner that they deem to be appropriate. As our experts said yesterday, americas testing capability and capacity is fully sufficient to begin opening up the country totally. Governor northam just called that delusional, the idea that states have enough testing. What do you think . Do you have enough testing to move into phase i . I think this is probably the number one problem in america and has been from the beginning of this crisis, the lack of testing. And ive repeatedly made this argument to the leaders in washington on behalf of the rest of the governors in america. I can tell you, ive talked to governors on both sides of the aisle nearly every single day. The administration i think is trying to ramp up testing. They are doing some things with respect to private labs. But to try to push this off to say that the governors have plenty of testing and they should just get to work on testing, somehow we arent doing our job, is just absolutely false. Every governor in america has been pushing and fighting and clawing to get more tests, not only from the federal government but from every private lab in america and from all across the world. And we continue to do so. Look, weve increased our testing in maryland by 5,000 over the past month. But its nowhere near where it needs to be. As Governor Northam said a moment ago, there are things like shortages on swabs that we dont have anywhere in america. You cant do the tests without them. Reagents, which is a part of the test. So look, i think theyve made some strides at the federal level. I think states are all working hard on their own to find their own testing. Lab capacity has been increasing. But its not accurate to say theres plenty of testing out there and the governors should just get it done. Thats just not being straightforward. Protesters gathered in the State Capitol yesterday to call for you to reopen businesses, reopen schools. I want you to take a listen to what President Trump said about protests occurring around the country. I mean, i know there are a lot of protests out there, and, uh, i just think that some of the governors have gotten carried away. We have a lot of people that dont have to be told to do what theyre doing. Theyve been really doing everything weve asked them. Specifically i think President Trump is referring to three democratic governors, and coincidentally, im sure, three battleground states for 2020. Whats your response when you hear the president saying that some governors are going overboard . Well, look, i think that first of all, i understand the frustration among the people that want to get things open right away, im frustrated also. I wish i had someone to protest to. Look, were doing everything we possibly can to reopen in a safe manner. But i dont think its helpful to encourage demonstrations and encourage people to go against the president s own policy. For example, i mentioned earlier, the president s policy says you cant start to reopen, under his plan, until you have declining numbers for 14 days which those states and my state do not have. So then to encourage people to go protest the plan that you just made recommendations on, on thursday, it just doesnt make any sense. Were sending completely conflicting messages out to the governors and to the people, as if we should ignore federal policy and federal recommendations. Ive been meaning to ask you about this meeting that you attended, you attended a briefing about coronavirus on february 9th with dr. Fauci and the head of the cdc. You were at the white house for i guess governors were having a convention of some sort. You told the Washington Post, quote, the doctors and scientists, they were telling us then exactly what theyre saying now. How stark were the warnings that you were getting in private on february 9 . So, you know, im chairman of the National Governors association. We had our annual winter meeting in washington on february 9. I called that meeting, we added it to our agenda because there were governors this was at the very beginning of the crisis, i think sort of around the time when the outbreak was just happening in the country, in the state of washington. And we asked for some of these folks to come brief the governors, to give us a better understanding of what was happening. We had dr. Robert redfield, head of the cdc, dr. Fauci, five others from the administration who came. They gave us a pretty detailed outline of what they felt was happening with this virus and what they thought was a good potential for what might happen in the country. And i can tell you i left that meeting very, very concerned, and came back the very next day and got our team completely ramped up to try to get to work. We had actually been looking at this since early january and had a problem effort ongoing. But when i left that briefing that the administration gave to the governors, we knew that this was going to be a serious crisis. Governor larry hogan of maryland, thank you so much for your time, sir, i really appreciate it. Thank you, jake. Joining me now is michigans democratic governor Gretchen Whitmer. Governor whitmer, thanks so much for joining us, i hope everyone in your world is safe and healthy. President trump tweeted about your state on friday, quote, liberate michigan. Whats your response to that message and others like it from President Trump . The only response is that, you know, michigan right now has the third highest death count in the country. We are the tenth largest state. As you can deduce, this means we have a uniquely hard issue going on here, because its disproportionately hurting our state, and thats why we need to take a uniquely aggressive action to protect people. Our actions are working. You know my stayhome order is one of the nations more conservative, but the fact of the matter is, its working. We are seeing the curve start to flatten. And that means were saving lives. The hard part of Public Health is when youre doing a good job, youre saving lives, and its hard to quantify precisely what that looks like. But we know this curve was at the trajectory where we were headed and now it looks like these efforts are making a difference in saving lives. Weve got to continue doing that. There have been a lot of criticisms of how detailed your stayathome orders are in terms of people not being allowed to buy seeds for gardening in stores or people not being allowed to use jet skis although theyre allowed to use kayaks. A spokesperson for the Michigan Retailers Association says theres confusion all over the place when it comes to your executive order. Do you regret anything about the way these rules have been rolled out . This is an unprecedented crisis that we are confronting as a globe, frankly. And the harsh way that its hitting my state means that weve got to be really smart about the actions we take now to protect life as well as the actions we take to reengage. And no one is more anxious to reengage our economy than i am. But i want to do it in a way that really does save life, that makes it safe, that mitigates risk, that means we can avoid a second wave. Because as tough as this moment is, it would be devastating to have a second wave. I know that the vast majority of michiganders understand that, not going to the gas station to fill up your boat so you can go tooling around is a sacrifice, but its one thats worth it. Who among us wouldnt rather forego jet skiing or boating right now if its going to save your grandparents or neighbors life . And thats precisely what the tradeoff is at the moment. Youve said testing is an essential piece of fighting the virus, governor. We have a chart with the testing, michigan is next to last, a half or a third of the number of tests in hotspots such as new york, massachusetts. The Trump Administration says you, all governors, have enough tests. Why is testing still so low per capita in your state . How long do you think it will be until you have enough infrastructure set up to test, isolate, contact trace, in order to reopen . Right now i can tell you we could double or even triple the number of tests that were executing daily if we have the swabs and reagents. I know you talked to governors northam and hogan before i came on, and theyre saying the exact same thing. This is not a unique situation in michigan. But the crisis were confronting is unique, and thats precisely why it would are actually be incredibly helpful if the federal government would use the defense production act to start making these swabs and reagents so we can improve testing. Even by their own guidelines, they say that you should have 14 days of decline, that you should be able to test. But theyre gating contrary, only testing for High Risk Health care providers. Thats not nearly enough. You talk to any epidemiologist and they tell you we should be testing between 1 and 2 of our population regularly. Thats why we need these fundamental supply chain issues addressed so we can ramp up our testing so we can have confidence in the numbers, know when its safe to engage, and be able to track folks after weve started to reengage parts of our economy. The administration that the issues is theres millions of tests out there that have been sent to states but the governors dont even know those tests are in the states, not necessarily through any fault of the governors. Is that one of the problems here . Tests are being put out on the market, but youre not even being informed about it . In some cases, yeah, we will get tests into our health care providers. You know, were depending on them to let us know thats happened. Thats not a great way to run the system. It would be nice if we had a National Strategy that was working with the state so every state knew what was coming in. At the end of the day, you know, we governors are doing the best we can with what we got. We could use some assistance to make sure the supply chain issues are addressed and we can do the robust testing that every epidemiologist in our country tells you is essential as we prepare to think about reengaging sectors of our economy. Governor Gretchen Whitmer, thank you so much for your time. Hope you and everyone in your world stays safe and healthy. You, too. The Trump Administration on thursday publicly released guidelines for opening up america again. One key measure, that states need the ability to quickly set up safe and efficient screening and testing sites and test symptomatic individuals and trace their contacts as well as setting up other sites for asymptomatic individuals. The white house says the states are ready. Our best scientists and Health Experts assess that today we have a sufficient amount of testing to meet the requirements of a phase one reopening if state governors should choose to do that. But as the White House Coronavirus task force makes this assertion, there seems to be a real disconnect with the states and the struggles the states face such as what we heard a few days ago from the republican governor of ohio, mike dewine and the stay director of health. Health systems worldwide have struggled because of the critical shortage of test kit components. Testing is the bane of any, im sure, governor and every Health Director around the states. We just wish we had more. Getting from the president anything remotely resembling a coherent policy on this critical issue of testing has been close to impossible as best exemplified by this blatant lie from when the president visited the cdc on march 6th. Anybody that wants a test can get a test. This pledge from march 21st also seems to be untrue. We expect by march 28th to be 27 million into the market. What is the actual number of tests that have been produced . White house officials were not able to tell me when i asked them repeatedly yesterday, though experts caution it is far less than 27 million. But even if they produced a lot of tests, how many of them have been administered . To date we have conducted more than 3. 78 million coronavirus tests. 3. 78 million versus 27 million. These two numbers illustrate a problem. First, there are not enough tests. Capacity needs to increase significantly. And second perhaps more important right now theres a real disconnect between the tests that exist and getting them to where theyre needed. The governors responsible for testing, and i hope theyll be able to use this tremendous amount of available capacity that we have. Interesting language there. Credit for the tests that have condition bn coeen completed, ts we. Responsibility for future testing, thats them, the governors. Many governors simply do not know where these tests are, even if theyre in their very states. The communication has been sorely lacking. Not that the president has had any issues communicating support for those protesting against governors or specifically three democratic governors of michigan, minnesota and virginia. Three battleground states in the 2020 election. So thats where we are, april 19th. Testing continues to be nowhere near where Health Experts want it to be, there remains a huge disconnect between making the tests and delivering them to where theyre needed, and the Biggest Development on testing is that the president has now officially completely passed the buck to the governors. Some of whom he then turns around and attacks for doing too much to try to save american lives. You know, leadership is being tested here, too, mr. President. Thanks for spending your sunday morning with us. Fareed zakaria, gps, starts next. Step by step, were going to figure this out. Were gonna find a way through this. Were working really, really hard in hospitals, our nurses, our techs, all the docs. Its about staggering when people get sick so that the hospitals can cope. Were gonna go through an awful lot of these. All across puget sound, people have been stepping up and donating personal protective equipment. We stay at work. For you. You stay at home for us. 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And the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, receding gums and possibly tooth loss. Help turn back the clock on gingivitis with parodontax. Leave bleeding gums behind. Parodontax. This is gps, the Global Public square. Welcome to all of you in the United States and around the world, im Fareed Zakaria coming to you live from new york. Today on the show, President Trump wants to reopen america, but can it be done . Well, a handful of European Countries are already opening up. I will talk to the chancellor of austria, sebastian kurz, about how his country is managing this transition. Also, is President Trump right about china . It could have been stopped in china before it started, and it wasnt. The whole world is suffering because of it. He says beijing is faking its data, he even speculated that the virus might have come from a chinese lab. Well have a debate about trump, china and