Transcripts For CSPAN Activists Testify On The Islamic States Ideology 20160626

Thanks for being with us this week. You realize this is something i not ond would love to do but something i think could be different about books written in the path and a way to rethink and reevaluate who this person was, what his real significance was. What his virtues really were that made him the most one of the most adored and adlated figures in the american history. But also what were his flaws and what were his the thing that is made him in many ways unpleasant and even hated by millions of people. Tonight on q a Hudson Institute senior fellow herman takes a look at the life and career of u. S. Army general macarthur. I think thats one of the things about him that you have to say he saw the future more clearly often than he saw the present. Whether it was americas role the ia, the rise of china, split between china and the soviet union which he foresaw. But also perhaps, too, the fate of american domestic politics. Tonight at 8 00 eastern. On tuesday the Senate Homeland security and Governmental Affairs Committee Held a hearing to discuss isis ideology and how it relates to socalled lone wolf attacks like the mass shooting in orlando. Refugees from isis affected areas made recommendations on how to counter isis beyond u. S. Led military operations. This is just over two hours. i ¿sen. Johnson good morning. This hearing will come to order. We do have one witness making his way over. I thought we would get going. I want to thank the witnesses for appearing, for your time, for your testimony. The Mission Statement of this committee, you heard it repeatedly, but ill repeat it again, is to enhance the National Economic security of america. On the Homeland Security side, one of our top rarities is doing whatever we can to keep our homeland safe, to counter islamic terror. The goal of every hearing, from my standpoint, the first step of solving a problem is admitting you have one, properly defining it, identifying it, defining it, really facing reality. The goal of every hearing is to lay out a reality, so that members of the committee, the audience, understand what we are dealing with. Todays hearing is our eighth hearing, dealing with some form of the threat we face from islamic terror. It is a harsh reality. It is one i wish was not true. It is one i wish we did not have to face, but we have to. We are hearing testimony today that will be hard to hear. It will be hard to hear. But it is testimony that i think is important for us to hear. I think the weaknesses for appearing. I would ask that my written statement be entered into the record without objection. Islamic terrorists declared war on the United States. Islamic terrorists declared war on the civilized world. We didnt declare war on them. They declared war on us. I cant exactly point to the date, but one that is pretty visible was the first attempt to bring down the twin towers on february 26, 1993. The fact that we didnt face the full reality right there and then i think eventually led to the fact that we been faced the tragedy of 9 11, where almost 3000 americans were slaughtered. There are two ways to end a war. Either one side defeats the other, or both sides decide to lay down their arms. The tragic events of yet another isis inspired terror attack on this country in orlando has proven islamic terrorists are not laying down their arms. The only way we are going to end this war, keep our homeland safe, return peace to the civilized world, is if we defeat islamic terrorists, if we defeat isis. On september 10, 2014, president obama laid out americas goal as relates to isis. This pretty simply stated, to degrade and ultimately defeat them. That was 22 months ago. 22 months ago. In testimony last week before the Senate Foreign relations committee, cia director john brennan laid out the reality as it relates to our success or lack thereof in our war on sis. And he testified, and this is a quote, that isis remains a formidable, resilient, and largely cohesive enemy, and that our efforts have not reduced their terrorism capability and their global reach. That is a depressing reality after 22 months. But it is a reality we have to face. Again, i want to thank the witnesses. Dont hold back. Lay out the reality. Make sure that the senators on this dais and the American People understand the threat, the enemy we face, and why it is crucial that we defeat them. I wish they would lay down their arms. I wish they would declare peace. But it doesnt look like that is going to happen. With that, i will turn it over to my ranking member, senator carper. Sen. Carper thank you for delaying this hearing a week so hat our witnesses could be assembled we welcome each of you. Thank you for sharing with us your stories and your perspective. We are delighted you could ome. I want to follow up on the fight against isis is going. I went over a map today of that part of the world. The u. S. And our Coalition Forces have recaptured almost 50 on the land that isis once eld. I think we are up to 47 . Isis has also lost land in syria. Ramadi and tikrit were key victories. Last friday, Iraqi Ground Forces captured the city of falluja and are clearing up the last pockets of resistance in that city. It was only 25 miles west of baghdad. As we speak, kurdish, iraqi, and Syrian Democratic forces backed by the u. S. Special forces are making preparations to recapture key isis strongholds in mosul. We have killed some 25,000 isis fighters. We cut isis funds by a third or more. We destroyed hundreds of millions of dollars in cash. We reduced their amount to ability to realize profits from oil reserves and resources in that part of the world. We drastically slow the flow of foreign recruits. From 2000 a month in 2014 to 200 a month today. It also goes for Young Americans who saw to travel to join isis. One year ago every month about 10 americans were leaving this country to join isis. Today that number is 1 per month. At home, the fbi is cracking down on recruits as well. The fbi has arrested 88 individuals. I was a naval flight officer. I served five years in southeast asia. I know a little bit about fighting wars. Another 18 years right up to the end of the cold war. One of the ways we will win this fight is not by ourselves. There is not an appetite in this country for boots on the ground. But there is an appetite for working with a coalition around the world. That is what youre doing. I believe were making progress. Is this where we want to be . No it is not. Are we making progress . Yes. Nine days ago, 10 days ago, my wife and i went to new york. We our son took us for fathers day to the 9 11 museum. It is on the location where the twin towers once stood. I was reminded, as we saw the faces and names of family members of some 3000 people who died that day, of the way we responded to that tragedy. In this room, in this room we helped create the 9 11 commission. In this room we received some 40 recommendations, a bipartisan group, presented to us by the former governor of new jersey. It was presented by lee hamilton. They presented to us after months of work some 40 recommendations. What we could do to reduce the likelihood that these attacks would occur again. We adopted maybe 80 of them. Then started and letting them. The response to that tragedy was bipartisan. It was a unified approach. Ultimately, it has been successful. When you compare that to the response to the tragedy in orlando, it could not be more different. I i hope today that we have the kind of conversation with all of you that will enable us to better improve this fight. This is a fight we will win. We have a lot of allies, not just folks in this country. People of all faiths, including the muslim faith. Together, we will prevail. I asked the rest of my statement be entered into the record. Chairman johnson without objection. We will swear in witnesses so if you will rise and raise your ight hand. Do you swear the testimony you will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god . Lease be seated. Our first witness is an associate fellow at the tahir institute for middle east policy. In 2008 you worked in abu dhabi focusing on syria, iraq, and the gulf states. Thank you, chairman, and anking member. By way of introduction i want to add that i come from an isis controlled area. I have also interviewed isis members for my book. I want to say this this is not a sectarian war. The people isis claims to represent our victims of its brutality. Just as much as everyone else. There is this is reality felt on a daily basis. Family and friends go to the market and see severed heads on pikes. When isis condemns its sunni opponents. Hey burn them alive. They stabbed their hearts before they shoot them. They display their dead bodies or days. It doesnt matter if you pray, or fast in ramadan, or turn your face towards mecca, they will still kill you if you dont pledge allegiance. Not far from where i come from, n my area, isis killed 700 sunni villagers in a matter of days. They dared to stand up against the group. I want to move on to say that as a belief system, those that believe in the Islamic State ideology are a minority not only in the muslim world but also in the group. I found that members come in six categories. One, longstanding religious radicals. For example, they believe there is no sanctity of life of the unlike al qaeda, which justifies killing civilians but only as collateral damage. Isis will kill civilians itself as the preferred outcome. A month ago, the spokesperson for isis said, when he called for sympathizers in the west and the United States to launch attacks, he said he received complaints from sympathizers that couldnt find military targets. He said there is no such thing as innocent civilians in the west. He went on to say they prefer to kill civilians. I dont have time to justify that, he didnt even have the justification during the statement. And, the second category of people are young zealots who are victims of the first category. People between 1217 who are drawn to this idea of a caliphate. They are brainwashed. They are told islam, in a way that isis understands. It distorts a lot of things. It dont have religious knowledge. They hear those and the traditions that isis relates for the first time. Theres a third category, people who are drawn to isiss political ideology first of this is a major problem not only within isis, but in the region. People who are trying to this political ideology. They think there is political tagnation in the region. They think only these groups can shake up the political order. I think omar mateen belongs in that category. People who are only superficially influenced by this organization. He did not follow their way of life. He still was animated by this idea of the Islamic State. The other categories are those who are drawn to the group because of its militaristic success, model of government, attraction to brutality, or are profiteers. The group is in a sea of political failures in the region. It is not a surprise that isis emerged in iraq and syria. Countries have suffered nimaginable brutality. The group has built its narrative around sunni victimization. It benefited to say that sunnis are systematically under attack by iran and other governments. The two greatest superpowers in the world are helping both of them. There are traitors in their midst to help them. It is important, without playing the genocidal act of isis, to highlight that the regime in damascus had carried out almost all of the atrocities without exception that isis has committed even before they arrived in syria. In 2012, progovernment militia stormed villages, slaughtered children, and smashed heads of condemned people. I want to conclude by saying that isis thrives in this context was that it should be defeated in this context to stem the International Appeal. This can only happen at the hands of the people that isis claims to represent. Thank you very much. Chairman johnson thank you very much. Our next serves as the ceo of he code corporation. He has a phd from princeton in islamic law. He said he traditional Islamic Sciences in cairo, egypt. Senators johnson, and other members of the committee, thank you. I would like to make brief introductory remarks and save the other discussion points for questions and answers. I would like to add that before isis, or isil, declared war on our homeland, they declared war on is lumped of this is not only a threat to our homeland, or national security, but our religion. Both the expressions are defined by interpretive methodology. That is what you go to seminary to be trained in. This requires want to understand the divine text. And to understand the text of the quran, and the various statements of the profit. There are 60,000 prophetic texts. There are over 100,000 narrations of these texts. Understanding the divine text means understanding a dozen different sciences. It begins with arabic grammar, syntax, logic, these interpretive tools were used to understand what does the text actually mean in the context in which it was revealed . The second thing is to understand the context we live in now. The current moment. Understanding full well that people change, times change, circumstance changes, and location and place change. How does one fast the month of ramadan in the northern latitudes . How do we deal with usury in the light of fiat currency not backed by gold or silver . That further adds that one needs to understand the current moment we live in. The third aspect of this interpretive paradigm is how do we link the divine text into the current moment in which we live . That, as we were taught, is a talent. Not everyone is endowed with that kind of talent. Violent and extremist groups like isil have no interpretation whatsoever. Nor do they have a fundamental understanding of islams. They are warmongers who have created a parallel religion. This parallel religion is no more islamic than a pool with one lemon squeezed in it is lemonade. Because of the gross misunderstanding of the primary text, because of that, we can identify what is so wrong with their thinking. I have been able to deduce about half a dozen or so main concepts that they have. I have traced them for certain cluster of sources that are used by every single islamist xtremist group from the middle f the 20th century until our time today. In that, i can isolate those concepts. We can provide a counter narrative. I dont have an army at my disposal. I dont own any weapons. I leave that to law enforcement. I do have my intellect and my scholarly training. I can employ that to provide a counter narrative to inoculate our youth. To make it absolutely, unequivocally clear that what isil represent has nothing to do with the religion whatsoever. Chairman johnson thank you. Our next witness is an activist for lesbian, gay, bisexual rights who fled syria in 2012 after receiving threats from soldiers and jihadists because of his sexual preference. He fled first to lebanon then turkey. He was granted Refugee Status after a year and a sense moved to the United States. He testified before the United Nations Security Council summit on lgbt writes in syria. Mr. Nahas . Mr. Nahas members of the committee, thank you for offering me the honor to share my story. In the context of the larger events happening in the world and here in the United States. My story mirrors the story of many other lgbt individuals. One day i was heading to the university, and organized group of militants accosted me because they perceive me as gay. The local mosque had announced they would cleanse the city of all sodomites. Isis had not yet been formed. The regime targeted all gay man in the country. I fled from my home country of syria in 2012. After living in a country of lebanon for six months, i moved to turkey. A history of activism meant that even in turkey i once again found myself in danger. Extremist groups like al qaeda and isis were gaining strength and access there. I was not safe because of my sexual identity. A syrian friend informed me i had been targeted for death. The director helped me with a un refugee agency. Rior to my resettlement, i completed an extremely thorough screening process. That included testifying under a and front of an officer from the dhs security checks and cultural orientation. After this process, i was relocated to san francisco. In august of 2015, a few months after resettlement, i spoke before members of the un Security Council about the threat to sexual minorities in the middle east. S i stated during the meeting, along with ambassadors, isis was just one of many threats to the Lgbt Community in the middle east. Report from recent refugees from syria say isis and other groups actively target gay people. It is enough just to be perceived as gay by them to be arrested, tortured, or raped. This person can be thrown off a building. A cheerful crowd will stone them to death if they are not dead. While isis is seen by the public as the most notorious group in syria, and iraq. Their methodology, when it comes to the treatment of lgbt people, is similar to many other groups including overnments themselves. We know that many groups target and kill gay people in syria. The just use different methods to kill. Good fortune allowed me to begin a new, safer life. Recent event in orlando show that lgbt people still face huge challenges here. The New York Times reported on june 16, even before the shooting rampage, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender will already be most likely targets of hate crimes in america. According to analysis of Data Collected by the fbi. Put simply, efforts to discredit the poisonous of hate crimes in america. Ideology of isis and other extremist groups are insufficient to completely are insufficient to completely erase the threats of antilgbt balance either here in this country or abroad. Must also commit to combating homophobia, xenophobia, and bigotry in all societies forms regardless of the source. In order to deal with these issues, i recommend two things bridges ofough the the United Nations, support actions not promote not only also love,s but inclusion, tolerance, and equality among religious communities. This requires continued u. S. Leadership at forms like the u. N. Human rights council, and supporting funding for the unification like the u. N. Reference to refugee agency. This was announced for the first time violence against people as a result of their Sexual Orientation and it received support from russia and egypt. This will make it more difficult for those countries and others to argue that Sexual Orientation is not recognized by International Human rights. True, we need partnerships across communities that can adjust the serious negative consequences of isis is ideology including assisting the community. While also promoting and the u. S. And abroad and you more positive image of the other two people. Thank you again for this opportunity. Witness is that your zdnet rights activists and one of thousands of using the women abducted by isis. Then iraqis year, government nominated her for the two 2016 nobel peace prize. Ms. Murad the first thing i like to tell you is that i was heartbroken when i witnessed the crimes in orlando because for the same reason for no reason they were killed and abused just the way i was. I was not surprised by this because i knew isis is not sad they would deliver the crimes everywhere. When i was captured, i was 19 years old and i was one of the ¥6,000 cd women and children taken into custody. 6000 women and children taken into custody. 2014,appened on august, and isis attacked us for one reason because they are considered infidels, not people of the book under interpretation. This is why they apply to us thousands of men, women and children were killed in the first day of the attack and sinjar. Sinjar. More than 100,000 were stranded on the mountain and summer. In summer. Through that crimes were committed in iraq and syria, but what happened to us was different. I was one of the girls who is enslaved and mosin mosul. Wasfirst thing they did after distributing us to the fighters was to take us to the court and have us convert right putting all hands on that around. On the karatquran. It is true that i was raped and i wishedd, but everyone from the 6000 women and children will likely because girls at age nine raped as well. On the into hours and my village, more than 700 men were killed, among of them six of my brothers. The same day my mother was killed two for no reason but for having a different religion. Im not saying that isis represents he is long, but isis is using is on to commit crimes. This needs to stop as an ideology. Many people in the area about the choice to leave, but they were happy to join the assignment statement they can. There many things for me to testify to tell you about today. But time is limited and i dont speak english, i wish i could tell you more. I would like you to give me one more minute. This was committed against this person. I deliver this message to egypt because of what is happening has been happening under the name of islam. People there had sympathy and they said this does not represent us. We have not seen them being labeled as an infidel group within islam from any muslim country. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] i ask the leader in cairo to say that isis is an infidel group. He is not committed to do that yet. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] many families in iraq and syria were escaping. They could have helped them. But no, they seized them and give them back to the militants. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] they would not give up on their weapons. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] before all the arab countries must stop this and prevent them from joining. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] we have to prevent the supply of weapons and money to them. We prevent that oil will not be sold. We have to fight them militarily after that. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] the yazidis are unable to protect themselves in iraq and syria. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] if a country as strong as your country cannot protect its citizens in orlando, belgium, or france, how come a small minority like us can protect ourselves in the heart of the land by the radicals are . Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] there are many things for me to ask you. Because for two years, we have been waiting. The list is too long for me to ask you. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] i know what is going on now with more than 3000 yazidi women and children who are still in captivity. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] when i was held for every hour that passed, i was happy that i was not sold, raped, one hour was counted for me. Every hour was counting for me. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] i was freed but did not enjoy the freeing feeling of the freedom. Because those who committed these crimes have not been held accountable. What happened to the yazidi people was a genocide. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] the first day, thousands were killed. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] the displacement of 80 of the yazidi people who do not have the joy to have a tent to live in. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] and, for holding more than 1000 children in syria to be trained to have the same ideology that the crimes were committed under. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] because of the children who were at the age of nine became slaves. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] for the people who drowned in the sea, they escaped because of isis. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] because thousands of our children also have been prevented from going to school. This is all because of them. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] today, i am saying this is not just minorities like the yazidis. If they are not protected, they will be wiped out. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] we only are seeking fees, we want to live with dignity wherever we are. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] as a little girl, i had a dream. That dream was to open a beauty salon. I was prevented from accomplishing that dream. That is the exact same story with thousands of children and people like me who were prevented from pursuing their dreams. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] it should not be practiced against islam. But these crimes have been committed in the name of islam. And the muslims must be the first to resist this. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] i dont like anyone to be attacking an entire religion. For example the family that , liberated me in mosul. But at the same time, this is , being committed under the name of islam. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] there is so much time that is needed for me to tell my entire story. Now i will stop and give you the opportunity to ask any questions. Chairman johnson thank you. Thank you for your courage and coming forward and testifying. Let me just ask, did any of your family survive . Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] yes, two of my sisters, two of my brothers, and some nephews and nieces. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] 18 people from my family and extended families are either killed or missing. Chairman johnson could you tell us how you escaped . Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] i never believed i would be able to escape. Because we were held in areas that were vastly occupied by isis. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] the first couple of days i tried to escape. Because i could not hold on more on the rape that was committed against me and the insult that was permitted against me. I could not take it more. I decided to escape. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] i intended to escape. But i was not successful. I became a subject of rape by multiple people. Collective rape. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] the second time i attempted to escape was successful. A family and mosul held me and made for me an islamic id. With that, i could escape from mosul. Chairman johnson you mention the 3000 additional girls who were captured. Are they dispersed throughout syria, and iraq at this time . Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] yes, they are everywhere. Because they are not set in a specific place. What is happening is that they are being stored, and their places will be changed from one place to another. Chairman johnson we are holding questioning to five minutes because you have so many members attending this. I do want to go to the doctor, a real scholar in islam. Can you explain, is there any way for us to understand, how did this violence get to that point . What happened . So, thank you, she mentioned she was saying that they dont represent islam, but use islam. She gave some examples. But they are using islam wrong. They brought her to the court and made her swear on the quran, but that is not how you become a muslim. Even small mundane things, they dont understand. The prophetic texts say fear the supplication of the oppressed. He never mentioned it is a muslim or not a muslim. He also said i am the defender of the religious minority on the day of judgment against the muslim that aggresses against the religious minority. It is a big question for the way i see it is there taking certain concepts or phrases and adding to it and appropriating new meanings that dont exist. For example, one of the things they told her is that yazidis dont count as the people of the book. The concept of the people of the book in islamic law is not prescriptive, its descriptive. It describes an organized religion that has a legal code, and a book, meaning a sacred text. As muslims expanded eastward, out of arabia they encountered , yazidis. These communities have coexisted with muslim since the first generation of islam until now. All of these religions, scholars understood these people of the book because it is a description, its not prescriptive. These differences is how they misunderstand certain things. The basic access around which this exists is a concept of declaring people to be apostates. I am an apostate, according to them. Therefore they can be aggressive towards me. I dont pledge allegiance to them. With this tactic, they go on. Last thing, she mentioned that in cairo, why doesnt the Senior Leadership of sunni islam declare isis as nonislamic . Our understanding of organizations like isis is even worse than apostasy. There is no Capital Punishment for apostasy they are outliers. In all of his mercy, and love, and beautiful teachings, he said that they are the dogs of hellfire. Glad tidings to those that fight them, and kill them, and are killed in the process of killing them. It is even more of a derogatory statement than being an apostate. It is an obligation on all of us, and the family of islam, to do what we can to combat it with whatever tools we have. Chairman johnson one quick question. What is the Muslim Population . 1. 41. 6 billion people, how many adhere to this . Do you have any sense of that whatsoever . Isis does not need a lot of numbers. They can hold territory with 200 people. They are a small minority even within the syrian rebel groups. They are still a Smaller Group than others. I think because of the violence and brutality they deter people. They use a word which means deterrence with extreme violence. When they kill one person, they make sure that when hundred or 1000 people see that person being killed. Sen. Carper did you say we have five minutes . Chairman johnson there are so many people. Sen. Carper again, our thanks to each of you for joining us today. For sharing parts of your life not easily shared. We are deeply grateful for each of you. Here in the United States, we are a people of many different religions. We are protestant, catholic, jew, muslim, buddhist, and other religions as well. One of the reasons why our country was established was because of the concept and nature of religious freedom. People yearning to not just be free but to be free to worship god as they saw fit. There are some who take the bible, most people in america are probably protestant and catholic. Most but certainly not all. Some people take verses of scripture out of the bible and crashed them into things in ways that are not meant to be. There are people in our own faith who bastardize our faith. They cherry pick our faith in a great example is an eye for an eye. That they say allows you to go read revenge. But thats a passage says revenge is mine, said the lord. Theres another person scripture that says when i was a stranger in your land, did you take me in . We have some political leaders in this country, i dont know if they read matthew 25. There are some who argued the United States needs to stop accepting not just Syrian Refugees, but in some cases all muslim refugees. In the case of the Syrian Refugees, that includes people who are not muslim. The could be different faiths, christian, a variety of other religions. I would ask, and just ask what are your opinions about a ban on all Syrian Refugees . Or all muslim refugees . How would such a ban affected this country to counter isis propaganda . I am not really trained as a politician. Neither are we. [laughter] at the risk of making a political statement, i think as an american i understand sen. Carper what are your thoughts about how a ban on all Syrian Refugees or muslim refugees how does that affect our ability to counter isis propaganda . I think it is on america not to accept refugees. We have a legal, political, and moral authority to take people in that we can. That is what makes our nation great. From a social cohesion standpoint, societies that are more plural are stronger. I think that by bringing in refugees, we will be able to understand the problem. We will see how we can help them more. I think some form of isolationism, or rejection only increases the problem. And make it faster and more. Sen. Carper other witnesses, same question. The first one is that i tried to keep in touch with people that were from syria. Ive seen how the european countries, only recently, they accepted them. That was a positive. You only hear good things from refugees. It plays the germans they praise the germans. The second thing is that, we recognize in the United States that thousands of Syrian Refugees who left syria and are now in turkey and europe or the United States have been instrumental in providing intelligence, mapping, guidance. Isis operates in these areas in Eastern Syria and northEastern Syria. These people have been affected the most by the violence. There is a reason why they were helpful. Sen. Carper thank you very much. Mr. Nahas from my experience as a refugee, i went to the process , i can say that it is very unlikely for the process to let any terrorist it is a highly intense process. It takes security checks, background checks, waiting for over a year or at least a year. They ask you a lot of personal questions. For the slightest chance to let a terrorist, or a guy or a girl that believes in these ideologies to get through is highly unlikely. Sen. Carper could you briefly respond to my question . Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] i would like first to say that every country has the right to protect itself, and to protect its borders. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] but the people who are escaping religious discrimination and genocide should not face closed doors before then. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] i would like to say of the terrorists want to go to someplace, they can go. The process, some of them have already immigrated. Sen. Carper i think we have a moral imperative here. We need to be true to those words written on the statue of liberty. We have a moral imperative to matthew 25. We also have a moral imperative to the people that live here. And they want to live in safety and live to be old. I think our challenge is to make sure that while we need to be true to our faith, allowing people in distress and on the run haunted by the memories, we need to be welcoming to them. We ask also at the same time we have to be mindful of the need to protect our safety. Sometimes those are in conflict. The last thing you want to say, my understanding is every religion, including islam, has the golden rule. True people the way you want to be treated. Is that true . Is that not true of islam . Yes, it is. Sen. Carper if all of us would abide by that we would all be a lot better off on this planet. Thank you. Chairman johnson we went over, we need to keep five minutes to be respectful. Senator ayotte . Sen. Ayotte i want to thank the chairman, and for all of you being here. We are so sorry for what you have gone through. Your courage in coming forward today is very important for us to hear what you have endured. It is horrific. I want to follow on the issue that you raised. I would like to have the doctor comment on it. What they areaid doing is beyond and apostate. You describe it as the dogs of hellfire. I would agree with that. What i want to understand, to what ms. Murad asked, as we look at how the reaction should be for example, she may have identified the seminary in cairo. Which i believe you study that. That is a very important seminary in islam. Do you believe that leaders in this seminary, and others in the muslim world, have described, and called out them in the way you have described it today as forcefully as they should . Just a correction, i was quoting the prophet muhammad. He said that the outliers are the dogs of hellfire. Sen. Ayotte i want to answer her question. Do you think that leaders in a position to influence what islam truly stands for, do you think they have been forceful enough and calling out, however you call them, how they are warping as you testified today your religion . Yes and no. I think there are those who are those who are very outspoken. One is written a very extensive nonbinding religious opinion in english against isis. He makes the argument, which is valid, that isis is outside of the folds of islam. If you have ever worked with scholars and academics, they are a little bit slow on the uptake and not get in front of the camera. Sen. Ayotte we need leaders. That is one of the weak points is the communications capacity. In a former life i helped , establish communications in egypt before it went to princeton. When i asked them how you deal with journalism they said we call the police and arrest them. I said no, you have to work with the media. What youre trying to say will not get out there if you dont. There is a lot of training that can happen. I agree with you. There is more to be done. Sen. Ayotte thank you. Ms. Murad, i wanted to say, i believe that daesh has engaged in war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide. How important do you believe it is you put in your written testimony today and told us, how important is it for the United States to formally recognize the actions as genocide . I mean, with reference to the yazidis, and how they are treating them . Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] it is very important for us that what happened to be acknowledged as a genocide. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] on the 16th of this month, the u. N. Acknowledged in the genocide for the yazidis who are been hopeless for the past two years, this is the first time they started having some hope. Ms. Murad [speaking foreign language] i would like these crimes to be legally recognized. I would like to be acknowledged. I would like you to look into the crimes, and things i have said today. There are things that daesh has publicly said they will do it. And they did it. And i would like you to look at this crimes and evidences. Sen. Ayotte i want to thank all of you for being here. I would just say there is a senate resolution, 340, which would call this for what it is, a genocide. I hope we can come together and declare i would like to see the administration declare this a genocide. I would like us in congress to come together and declare this for what it is. Thank you. I want to thank all of you for your testimony. I came in toward the last half of your comments. You said, i want to confirm this, isil has nothing to do with religion. Did i hear you right . Isis is nothing to do with islam is what i believe i said. Ok so tell me the difference quick. Is defined by an interpretive methodology and i walked for a bit about what that is. And that the text that we have only believed to be divine text and there is a tradition and how we interpret these. These verses and injunctions for the moment we live in. Isis are unlettered, they are completely unlettered in the religion and the fundamentals of the religion and order to have an interpretive methodology. I keep coming back to why it these guys exist. There is absolutely a criminal element. We saw in paris, brussels, theres also doctors, engineers, folksand did educated that are part of it. That should not be part as a twisted ideology as is. Could you tell me what about their ideology appeals to that of crooks ande professionals and everything in between . Academically, i think that the first thing i would point if theyhat i dont know necessarily believe in what isis is saying or are coerced into believing what theyre saying or holding to be true. I also think coerced . Yes course by them by isis. Think there is a spectrum of extremism throughout islam. I think you can start a something innocuous, but there is something wrong with that way of thinking and it can slide. I think that when they find somebody that looks like theyre from are able to pull them to that side. Theres a lot of folks in the group it appears to me anyway. Would you like to comment briefly on that for me. Or just agree with the doctor if he is correct. The people who believe in the sort of ideology that isis only different categories. People were indoctrinated by another category which is of whostanding radicals believe in declaring fellow muslims as infidels based on specific criteria that they have. They rely on books like the two books that come guest dont e dont want to go into too much details there but there is a book that has a thousand pages of a man that comes into fetwa ideology and he says it should not be done the same way that muslims have done. But based on my impression of you i can declare u. S. Fellow muslim as an outpos apostate. Back to you doctor. Are there statements or actions the u. S. Has taken that might encourage people to be a part of isil . Thats a tough question. I think the rhetoric that comes out of isil sometimes makes us think that if it were not for the u. S. Invasion in iraq, if it were not for the u. S. Policy doing this ori think that, the f that one can make that argument for any other country. One can make that argument for any other regional player in that region. Politics is all based on interests, geopolitical interest in things like that. I dont think that is necessarily fair. I think because america is so dominant in the world and throughout their it is an easy target. Well of america to stop doing this, thats not good happen and we know that. My time is up i want to thank you all. Submit questions. You so much mr. Chairman and thank you all for thoughtful comments its awful words in such courage and bravery especially our last witnesses. Whoink everyone here frequently spends a lot of time on their smartphones during testimony sat and really listened and you moved us all. Thank you so much for your courage. And for the fact that your survivors and i survivors you are willing to provide testimony and us to theor imperative that we always good people need to engage. Dr. I was fascinated by the work that youve done basically pursing the perversion and responding to the conversion of perversion of islam that is being done by these radical groups. Obviously having been met by people ive been recognize have messages can be delivered that would actually make a difference, especially in this country when now i think our greatest threat is young men and of women who are american citizens. Weve seen that now twice so theres two parts of a message. Message, andight the messenger. Im going to make a couple points. I want both of you to respond to what you think the right message is and the right messenger. And i want to know if you are familiar with what the department of Homeland Security is doing today to try and provide at message and offer any advice to us as we review that and our role of oversight. That will be the last question i ask and like that you both split up your time. Thank you. In terms of messaging, i think it is different because its complicated because isa should be treated as to organizations and one. They have their own messenger usually based on sectarianism. There is International One which is very close to al qaeda. Reconnectr trying to and regather dispersed networks of al qaeda that were basically dispersed after the terrorist attacks of 9 11 and the campaign against it. They are trying very hard to do , the unitedpe states, and elsewhere. But also in north africa. The messages should be different because theyre different organizations. On the ground, internationally, there is this danger that what , like its appeal on the ground has become an International Appeal. Because it has presented itself is some sort of idea that everyone is fighting and the is the west by ron or something else. Iran or something else. The most effective message against this is to not folk talk too much about only the victims of isis outside the group that it claims to represent, but rather what is really happening on the ground which is on a daily basis the group killed several sunnis, people that claim to represent and we dont see that in media for example. Village i mention they killed 700. People. A storyhington post had about that and at the time is the single most terrific massacre. They killed a lot of people but they killed 700 people. That needs to be the message that look this is not an organizations is not a sectarian organization or is not an islam versus the west, it is a crazy organization that recasts itself in terms of the people of that place rejected. That needs to be hammered again and again. As far as messaging, i think there needs to be an unequivocal counter narrative from muslim religious leaders. Nice to be yes, no, black, white. What ive been trying to do in i conduct ation monthly traditional class and i try to take one of the concept that organizations like ice off old and i try to instruct it and a very detailed way. My goal is for Young Muslim People to understand why there is a perversion in their thinking. I think that kind of effort is what we need more of. I think the english language is sexy very important in this regard, because a lot of the media that weve been seeing coming out of isil is in english and it appeals. I think that is important. , some as recommendations of the things that has come to. Ind for example in our home county of Montgomery County in maryland, we have noticed a drastic increase in pulling towards for some students. Towards muslim student. I think that theyre working hard to make sure children for a safe in school so theyre not push to the side or isolated. Also in our organization, we work with helping refugees resettle. I think those types of services are important so that people who are coming as refugees have something to plug into so they are not left to drift in the wind. Those are some of the things. One last thing, i think Media Training for Muslim Leaders abroad is also very important. I think there is a lot of good , theres a lot of good leaders that are making the right arguments, but they need to know how. You cant write a 40 page legal opinion and expect that to be churning on twitter. When i told my teaches that, they like what will be a saying is the dumbed down version of what our teacher said. We have to stop the humility thing we have to be start smart about how we inject this message into the media. I want to be sure everybody gets questions. Ill ask everyone to be mindful of the fiveminute limit. thank peterson you all for being it today. Thank you for you compelling testimony in your journey here to this country is very important as we discussed refugees and folks like yourself who have been fleeing intense persecution and terror. That people see the human face of refugees who are in this country. Your presence here today is important and hopefully many people will see that and be as moved as the know everyone in this panel has been moved by your testimony. Say thank you for your courage to be here today. Dr. , i would like you to respond to it seems to be somewhat of a debate back and forth your hearing in the political realm now as to whether or not we. Hould call isis radical islam when you hear someone calling a radical islam, do you think that is an accurate description of what we are seeing with isis . Who seem to be intent on getting all the difficult questions. One of the things they taught us that seminary is that there is no there is nothing wrong with labels. Because a lot of times we get stuck on labels. I think that labels are only what their definition is. When somebody says i use that term radical islam, and i know what a lot of people like you many get upset. What i mean is that people who look muslim, say their muslim, quran and doing terrible things. So what are we going to call them. I personally dont have a problem with that. When people say that whether in congress, or the white house, or in media, i understand what is meant. However, i fear that that can very easily slide into any form of religiosity for muslim is a form of radical islam. That is i think with the fears is that we limit it to what is supposed to define. It is a good question. Because personally, when i was in the uae last year, i was an advocate of using these terms. And pressing on clerics to speak up against his organization. I remember the late saudi king who died two years ago, he admonished a clerk, the high court for the first time in public and said i feel you are lazy and not speaking up against isis when it came out. But, i think most of the u. K. Last year, i saw that the there is a question of messenger. Who says this term and why. It is important to keep this in mind. Prices wants to divide. This is the thing that isis did in the middle east and is trying to do it elsewhere. Enemies to polarize its and it wants to polarize society under his control and they want to divide the enemy. They had succeeded. In the middle east and they are probably succeeding here by getting people busy talking about what to call us and what not to call it. I think what is clear is that this organization has declared war on islam. This is how it should be seen. Its a problem within the islamic world, and an acer be dealt with there. Helpwhat can be done is to muslims fight this organization. I appreciate that. The issue that we face here in United States in dealing with this threat deals with lone wolf folks who may be inspired by what they see in the ideology. Is it safe to say the folksy may be inspired by this are folks who really have very little understanding of islam . Is there a correlation that . There . And is that has something to do . Ith this recent shooter wh if you can kind of address what may be going on in the mind of ne wolves. I would say absolutely. People that self radicalized they just like the radicals weve been speaking about this morning. They very little to no understanding of the religion whatsoever. That is the danger. Part of that is that they have note training. In this ask questions interpretive tradition i described earlier takes place. That isnk the definitely a fear. People are surfing online finding a lecture here, statement there, cutting and pasting these things together in formulating some kind of inclusion and acting on it. I definitely think it is a problem. I think that more instruction, more religious literacy for muslims will help in that regard. thank you mr. Chairman, i want to add my words appreciation to this panel. Thank you for being here. I know the start hearings about the ideology of daesh. It was called in the wake of a horrible tragedy in orlando that went out once a terrorist inspired attack and also a hate crime in this case against members of the lgbtq manatee community. There was also about night at the club and it is unclear as to whether not that was contributing to the targeting of that club on that particular night. When you are testifying, you shared with us that attacks precededgbt syrians the formation of isa. Isil. That it was called for or tolerated, or perpetrated by the regime as well as militants who oppose the regime in syria. That they too part perpetrated violence against lgbt syrians. Violence, bullying, intimidation, discrimination against members of the Lgbtq Community have a long history also. Days, you could certainly argue that it was sanctioned that one point in our nations history by the government also. But things have changed. I want to just draw attention to something you highlighted in your testimony about the un Security Council acting very recently to recognize that lgbt rights are human rights. First in that form, you highlighted it as something that is very important in moving forward. Ask in termst to of your proposals, your recommendations to this committee committee, how important it is for governments, authorities, for machines, to say lgbt rights are human rights. Dangerous is the absence of that, besides to that . Thank you senator for this important question. From my own experience growing syria, i known in that i knew as at an early age that the government has laws against us and we my existence is not legal. So i was not allowed to say it be outwas not allowed to in the open. It was punishable up to three years in prison. I could be persecuted by your own community members. Toits very important for us put the words out there. To say to governments and held them accountable to tell them that this is lgbt rights are human rights. They are not from my understanding, my communitys judge in saying that lgbt rights are only sexual rights. They dont relate at all to human rights writ and to make this message clear to , itrnments and communities is very important to at least start to elevate the consequences that i witnessed in my country where being bullied all the time, persecuted, harassed in the streets, even verbally and physically abuse. We cannot go anywhere, we cannot go to the police. We could not tell our families, because if we do, they will persecute us more. Because theyve always say you have to man up and defend yourself. This is not an issue you can talk about it it is these International Law firms where platforms used in a proper work to do proper way to tell governments that these threats should be addressed. It delivers a strong message. Im wanted to followup out of time. The question for the record then. Senator peters was asking questions about self radicalization and loan whats lone wolves. I think in the case of orlando it is not clear how deep of an the perpetrator, withunmen had relationships online with various terrorist organizations. I guess i want to ask an even broader question about self radicalization, because weve instances of mass gun violence in the u. S. People who are self radicalized, but inspired by different education. Hatre types of hatred. As we saw in charleston, motivated by racial hatred. Learn about self radicalization and studying those who have been self radicalized by isil when dealing with self radicalization for people who hold different types of hatred. The witnesses can answer that and written responses. Sen. Lankford thank you all for being here. These are important days and we need to be clear and articulate voices. You, what is the end goal for isis and . What do they see on the horizon . They are fighting for what and they will know they have achieved it when . One to say they are be a caliphate that dominates the world. This is their stated mission. I think they are realistic objective is to control syria, iraq, and be the region leader of jihad and global jihad. Thats why they spend so much efforts on targets al qaeda. They are more critical of al qaeda than probably other ones because they see them as their competitors and arrivals. Is regionall dominance, but obviously they want to expand in the west and elsewhere. So you talk with the regional dominance, you have to motivate people in western countries rather be in europe, United States, australia, wherever may be, to fight an attack in this occasions as well. So why try to motivate people in australia or the United States or in europe to be in the fight for them, it is the goal is to caliphate there. Listen to them and how they talk. Read the books that they say they read. They talk about the war today this is important nothing think for the antiice is camping today, because there is a itdency to think about should teach it. The slices. Prices to present itself as a they talkproject, about a tactic which is a war of attrition. They want to exhaust of the west and everyone else and to think 10 years ago we were fighting the americans and they had the appetite to fight us. 10 years later, president obama had little appetite or less appetite to fight us. And 10 years time, that will be even less. They have a core, and thats the most important part of isis. A core that is mostly consisting of security officials. These are the most dangerous people. Many were former members of saddam husseins security apparatus. They shake the organization in terms of how the operation works and how it ensures that survival. That core wont go away. You could defeat the members who joined the organization two years ago and so on, but they think of this longterm struggle as a war of attrition. If you go back 15 years ago or years ago, the United States were stuck in challenging leadership and as long to call out i cried out, which is happening at to say that that is not insisted. Now it is a challenge towards say thatutual fund, to does not line up with the ideology. We see this springing up in multiple areas around the world. Term t you use the its not just around isis. Its around mostly isis today. But it could be around others. Its a more broad system. So is it a confront isis, or is it a confront a larger set of teachings that is separate from traditional islam. Thats the difference between defeating the organization tactically, you can launch military, very Effective Military Campaign against it, and you can defeat it. Falluja. El it from the organizations appear on the spectrum, the border appeal of that believe in violence as a longterm strategic goal, rather than balance for just because their pursuit fight. Does the world was Movement Worldwide movement of isis diminishes a dont have a functioning caliphate in syria and iraq. They will, but i think weve reached a point today where what is happening on the ground in iraq and syria still does not affect so much the International Appeal of isis. Becausethis is directly of the campaign against isis has not been done properly. Use the wrong forces to fight isis and towns of these organizations are viewed suspicious. You state department of his content complained about it. Saying for example allow the why pg, and exempt all correlated to using that organization to fight isis the other terrorist organizations. Eyes thinking generated a loving eyes to confer to Territorial Office and that raises specifically. Thats why have warned time again that the impact that the venture properly. I think center for lifers line of questioning is right on. Say in yourearly to do good to bring to the, was specifically are your as the first to do as youre singing a territory. During a war in some way in the world. I think we defeated but isis came back and defeated mooresville. The one United States pulled out of iraq before iraq with a material as the because of the no it pursues support room corroboration is euros and zero been the mistakes that theowed, that very success circumstances that enabled isis the onlytheyre all in us to Work Together and reject this government from our that is why they were able to take cle in about a but took massive american weaponry they mark back into iraq. And fortified they became a Strong Organization because the political failures. My fear is that theres so much focus on the military component, i see than on a political your point. Also see your point about hospital on country should of try and get rid of it. There were a regular war and political failures in terms of how we are gaining territory. So this is not a clash of civilizations. Said this already, but i want to go one step deeper. For us to focus so much on efforts in the senate, one of the specific tactics then to sort of exposed isofor what the perversions they are doing and discredit them. What are some of the best way to go about that . I really believe in a counter narrative. Verylize those snow articulate and clearcut counter narrative. By counter narrative i mean how do you respond with issues of morality, democracy, citizenship. Constitutional nation should. All the things that have been argued, but unknown to the best majority of muslims. A lot of the issues that isis claim by the balance their picking with but remedy, been dealt with are ready. The counter narrative is affecting as you can expect a stupid very rigorous, authentic scholarship. Is based on the primary. Ources overall recal we are running out of time. I want to say thank you. I hope you will save your many questions. I want to thank you both. Your testimony was so courageous and so moving. The outrageous attacks going on against lgbt people in the middle east and here in the United States which is a point out in your testimony is the most common types of a crime is received. Im grateful for your honesty and your courage. Ms. Murad is so profound and im so grateful you would come and share your story which is so important to be heard. Thank you very much. I want to pick up on both senator langford and senator bookers line of question. The in terms of what reality situation in terms of where is isis right now on terms of success or lack thereof against it. Theres a state department with very difficult numbers that are changing all time. But when i looked at and i did a calculation, the number globally of People Killed in terrorist 9 11 isby 29 11 two a little under 5000. That has grown 56seven times. This is from my standpoint is a growing stress. Isis outside of syria, isis inspired attacks have cost 1191 lives in just the last year. The analogy of been using in terms of, i realize we have made progress, we are taken back territory. There are still controlled territory. The analysis am somewhat using is that of a beehive. In yourt have one backyard that you can poke with a stick and do damage to the hive, but youre also starring at the hive. As i will be her witnessing . What is the danger there . Is it true that we do to defeat caliphate,them that but then we have a lot of mopping up to do. Groups,lamic terror anything theyre spreading, growing, their evolving, it is like a cancer. We are not winning the battle. I come from the position that isis and al qaeda are growing and there will be other groups nextjoin them, so for the decade or two day will be spending. Its a torrent i think at this moment isis has been defeated territorially in iraq and syria. They lost 20 of their territory in libya they are also on the back foot. They are struggling to even establish a presence there. Al qaeda is doing very well in yemen. The same thing in afghanistan, theyre not doing well there. The capacity currently is limited, however i think their ability to inflict damage is strong. They benefit from the open face on the internet. The self radicalization can locating far by american citizens. Its very easy to become one of them. Or sort ofization radicalization that lead someone to isis is swift and animated. Meaning they can push person but a very short time to do some damage. Very hard to predict, but its there. Its a danger that will remain. A short answer, the gains were rolling out in syria and iraq, the second give you much comfort. Youre saying this is a longterm project. Think theyre going strength over the next decade or two. Briefly, that is good. The other track, the political track, the social and religious, the political process in iraq and syria. If theyre catching up to the military advances, then isis will go away for a while. But for now, the problem is the focus is on military while neglecting other things is a problem. Shift to theyou to Muslim Brotherhood. Its often reported as a more moderate group. Youve thought about the Muslim Brotherhood . A lot of thoughts about the Muslim Brotherhood. I think that goes back to what ill try to say earlier is the concept of a spectrum. I think these islamist groups, while some of them are on the left of them are not necessarily open to buy the, there are certain procedural things that take lace. Happened in egypt, my home country. Think that im always shocked, utterly shocked at how engaging our government is with organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood. I spoke to people the embassy in cairo, i said why didnt you indicate engage with Muslim Leaders. And they give me a dropdown list of all these islamic islamic Muslim Brotherhood activist. Them soby engaging with openly and so freely, we almost legitimize that approach. O i think that it is dangerous i think its deathly on the spectrum, but is not a necessity that it will go from one end of the spectrum to another, but its definitely spectrum unconcerned about. I am concerned about. Again, we think each of you for being with us today. And spending his time with us. And your advice as well. I want to start with a question. I will start with you but that invite other witnesses to respond to be in your testimony, i think you were the United States must highlight that the war with isis is not a sectarian conflict. You point out that there are muslims of both shia and sunni islam joined christians, jews, and people of all religions nothing backgrounds and fighting isis. With that said, some people in paints. Are trying to this as a battle against isis as a broad class between the west and with islam. I think our presence made it clear that people using this kind of rhetoric is dangerous. Ask do you agree with this . I agree that this is not a sectarian war and that this is its on islam versus west war. Werect, if anything they that isis is all about muslims versus muslims. This is what the ideology is built on. Speaking, the way that ideology of isis has ofured and become kind to events a reaction that happened after the iraq war. Howthe iraq war itself, but they reacted to the presence of americans on the ground and declaring these people as opposite and what is a punishment for these people. They started to appropriate events in islamic history to the context that is going on here. It was not at all about the west. Its about whats going on on the ground in the muslim world. The question is, do you agree that portraying this war against isis as a war against islam plays directly into the hands of ices are not . I sort of agree with what he was saying. If anything, the victim of faisal is islam itself. On ourve declared war scholars, our tradition, our sunni and shia sex, and that is the biggest tragedy. I think our best allies in this are normative muslims that are people like me. My life is in threat despite being here in speaking out against us. I dont say that lightly. I want to stop that. Do. Probably than you i really want this to end and i want to know what i can do to push the floor. I think in that desire is the greatest ally we have two counter the rhetoric and the ideas that are coming out of fisa. Isil. Im sorry dont have the capacity to answer this question. Nadia would you like to answer this question please . Ms. Muran [speaking foreign lanhuage] the first thing i did, i went to egypt to deliver that message because the things that happened to me, i wanted to go to these countries and tell them what happened to me. Foreign language] prevent the use from joining the Islamic State. I went and i told them what crimes were committed, what actions, i wanted to start the flow stop the flow to them. Speaking against this is not held for daesh. Also minimizing the role of daesh for the powers not right. On the isis border is more than 3000 miles. Some of our villages are only 150 people are living in small villages. We have not been able to recapture these villages for a year and a half. Speaking against isis does not mean speaking against islam and also does not mean speaking in shia onesunni or against another will meet all speak against these united. Mr. Chairman, you and i are both supporting legislation that would strengthen the ability of the department of homeland civicty to reach out to groups, parents, community leaders, in order to prevent isis from the from including americans which we believe is the greatest earlier basic. To ask the seconds doctor what advice he would have for the Homeland Security as they adjust this. Just one, maybe one strong piece of device for the department opponent security. Work with us. I will give all the witnesses a chance to have a closing comment after we good to senator booker. A aant to click ask nadi question. Who helped you escape . A muslim family. Senator booker. We are looking at a specific efforts that have been going on to activate loan books in the wolves andes lone the United States and belgium, and france. This is a part of the war that obviously hits western countries. Hey are being preached at where citizens of those countries and american citizens are finding the isis ideology and the perversion of islam so compelling that they are willing to take up arms against a fellow citizens in europe or in the United States of america. Clearly we are doing a lot already, trying to empower local organizations in our communities working with mosques and we had panels here were folks have given testimony about that. We are now allocated more resources to that. Ive been on saying they should not be lawenforcement focus, they should be focused on empowering communities. If cde becomes more police, more surveillance, it is not going to really help us deal with the core of the problem. Compelling about you, as you pointed out clearly in a way i learned a lot from your testimony, so clearly that this is a perversion of islam. This is not islam your fighting against trade this is people that are using it to fuel hatred, violence, and tactically for political objective to control territory. Of theirand the reach totalitarian ends. Think stills i we need to be doing more, frankly a lot more to counter and i like what you said in one of the responses, that in another another 150 page paper is not mes thate against me you see on mind that often pulling the vulnerable souls to this kind of characteristic activity. I understand her Short Interest ratio question. But im trying to figure out what are the specific strategies , and we are seeing some of them that are working, where you expose facts that isil is killing far more muslims, far more sunnis, they are killing people the west. That really begin to expose this so that those young people who might be susceptible to them see them for who they are. Naked before their eyes. Those are the kinds of strategies that we need to start really investing and more. Youn the two minutes i left , could you go to the core of those things that if you were making the investments watches that we are to oversee, where would you be placing those dollars more specifically . We have a very successful model in Montgomery County which is a public and private partnership. We work with one or spent. We work with the county executive. Its a really good program. Its getting rock recognition nationally. We tried to export this model. As i doo in this model, a lot of the counter narrative. I would love to be in a position wrecking train other young Muslim Leaders in this country and our counterparts in western europe on what these points. On happy for them to take the research and say they did it. Of the upseteagues about that. Im happy for people just to get the message out there. Lso mentor peter did mentor people. I sit down with them, talk with them. I try to decipher is their problem. Is it a Mental Health issue . Public, private partnership is working. Is working in our county, and i i would like to see us being a position to train other counties and i would like us to go overseas to western european cities like russells, london, and work with our counterparts over there to train them in this model. The proactive shortages that often save a lot of money and the reaction they get to do with lawenforcement. Testimonies your have been testimonies of courage. What you said people should understand you are risking your bye by coming here, but speaking truth. For that, im deeply grateful. Thank you senator booker. You are right. I would like to offer all the witnesses about a minute to make final comments and well start with you. I want to emphasize that we all need to show what isis is on the ground and what it does. We need to emphasize these are victims as much as others are and i think that needs to be present in the media. It is not one persons war. It is everybodys war. You get the harder questions because you have dr. In front of your name. [laughter] opportunity for the to address the committee to submit testimony. Something that is much more than work. It is something very personal. I think of my tilt my children when i come here and how the rhetoric, though they are young, the rhetoric is something that scares them. I hope what we are doing here will help build a more resilient homeland so this will be better than the america i grew up in. Thank you for allowing me to speak in front of you. Tory time i have the chance speak and talk about my experience, i always think about people who are still in danger and under threat because they are different, because they do not conform with other peopless expectations. Hope the United States will take a stand and be more active like in Holding Government and other actors on the ground accountable for their actions and do something about this. Thank you so much. Thank you. [speaking another language] thank you and thank you to the witnesses who came here. I wish that we all could Work Together and stand up together. I would like these crimes to be legally recognized. I would like to be acknowledged. I would like you to look into the crimes, and things i have said today. There are things that daesh has there was bullying. Folks of the islamic faith. I applaud those speaking up at own personalyour safety. We want to make sure you do not pay a price for that but at that is a matter of real concern. Bullied, ikids being am especially concerned about them that they are somehow paying a price as well. If i were giving them advice, it would be to be vocal and break in speaking out against the things we see perpetrated against isis. By isis. Denounce those activities. It may be disheartening to ask end, io, but in the think they may be safer and ultimately, they will feel better about their own situation. Thank you. I want to thank you offer your testimony and your courage. Laying this out and helping us understand this better. We have a long way to go. Thank you for your testimony and your courage. The hearing is adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2016]