Transcripts For CSPAN Hearing On Cartoon Contest Attack In Garland Texas 20240621

His commitment makes him a valuable asset and we are happy to have you. I would like to join you and welcome mr. Donovan. He is an outstanding attorney and an outstanding public servant. Great to have you on board. Just to show how bipartisan we are going to be, as a democrat, i would like to welcome my former colleague dan donovan. It is great to have you here and i look forward to working with you. Anybody else echo mr. Richmond onto a more serious topic, yesterday in boston, sorts are merging that mr. Rahim was killed by federal Law Enforcement officers after lunging at them with a knife. After communicating with and spreading isis propaganda online. Known associates are also being arrested as we speak. These cases are a reminder of the danger posed by individuals radicalized by social media. In garland one month ago. He urge others to do the same the mohammed cartoon contest that islamists have singled out as a target. The final tweet minutes before the attack, he told his followers to follow a 20yearold British Foreign fighter embedded with isis and syria and one of the Top Recruiters who has been linked to the sitcom twitter hack in january of this year. He was quick to praise the attack and issued a warning that same night saying the knives have been sharpened and soon will come to your streets with death and slaughter. This attack simplifies a new era in which terrorism has gone vital. To attack an event. A radicalized follower heated that call and he took steps make sure his act of violence would spread and motivate more. It has turned homegrown extremists into sleeper operatives and attackers. The proliferation of jihadists propaganda online has established a new front in our battle against islamic extremists. We are no longer hunting terrorists living in case who only to mutate through careers. We are facing an enemys messages are posted and implemented in real time over the internet. Last month, the threat level at military bases across the country was elevated after isis supporters posted the names of military members serves. Inspiring fanatics can receive updates from extremist via twitter, watch isis blood lust on youtube, view jihad selfies on instagram, read religious justifications for murder on just paste it and find travel guides to the battlefield on ask fm jihad. Recruiters are mastering the ability to prey on susceptible youth seeking out users who have questions about islam or want to know what life is like in the socalled islamic state. They engage, establish bonds of trust, and assess the commitment of their potential recruits. From there extremist direct users to continue the conversation on more apps and secure communication hide the message from intelligence agencies. Such communication involves advice for terror safe havens, Contact Information for smugglers or the membership process for joining isis. I know people are disturbed by the trend joining us. Mobile apps like kick and what is up and apps like whicker and sure spot are allowing extremist to communicate outside of the view of Law Enforcement isis attempts to use the dark or deep web with just as concerning. These websites hide ip addresses and cant be reached by Search Engines giving terrorist another means by which they can recruit fighters, share intelligence raise funds. Yesterday in boston, they tailored the message for specific audiences and in doing so it projects power beyond the growing safe havens by amp amplifying battlefield susceptive people. This helps them achieve their self proclaimed caliphate. It stands in stark contrast to alqaedas past outreach that relied on top down messaging and propaganda more difficult for inspiring jihadist to find. Instead, isis is taking a grassroots approach to terror seeding the oppressive world view frameom the ground up. Isis is using its multi platform engagement to create a subculture that supports violent behavior and encourages attacks against the United States and its allies. They are a change for spreading terror and acquire from us a shift in the Counter Terrorism intelligence and operations. For example, we can start by doing what the fbi director suggested and that is shaking the trees more aggressively to quickly identify and engage potential homegrown jihadist. But this is a new front in the war against terror and it will require a new approach with a focus on the battle space. I am grateful for the thee witnesses we have here that are dealing firsthand on the front lines with how this terror is going viral. And i look forward to hearing your testimony and recommendations for confronting this new and dangerous challenge. With that, i now recognize the Ranking Member. Thank you, mr. Chairman and thank you for holding todays hearing. I would like to also thank the witnesses for appearing today. On may 3rd, the American Freedom Defense Initiative which is recognized as a hate group by the Southern Policy Law Center organized the mohammed art exhibit and contest in garland texas. Two violent extremist attacked police who were providing security to the event resulting in the wounding of a dedicated Police Officer. According to the fbi, hours before the attack, a bulletin was issued to state and local police stating one of the assailiants may have interest in traveling to the event. Unfortunately, the bulletin wasnt received in time. By no means am i saying the bulletin would have changed the outcome of the situation but i think it illustrates we need to continue to look into information sharing with state and local police and listening to the boots n on the ground. Supporters of the terrorist group isil praised the attacks. After the attack, it was discovered that one of the gunmen detailed his plans to leave the country and travel to syria to join isil on twitter. The assailants plans were disrupted when the fbi arrested some people that planned to travel with him. It also came to light he engaged with other isil followers from around the world true twitter. Mr. Chairman, we know that the threats from foreign and domestic terrorist groups are not going away overnight. Using the internet and social media to recruit members, plan attacks, and spread ideas is not novel. As director of the Counter Terrorism center pointed out in the hearing in this committee in february, isils exploitation plays a role in recruiting fighters from around the world. As we look at social media and how violent propaganda is spread we must look at ways to counter message. Both sides of the aisle are engaged in an examineation of the role and there is a dedicated coordinate who is working on this. Mr. Chairman, at the time, i request the committee have an open oversight hearing where we can take testimony from dhss coordinater about the role in implementing the strategy. Furthermore we know that more work remains to insure our foreign partners are willing and able to stop and identify foreign fighters at their borders. Last friday, the council issued a statement urging countries to enforce border controls that allow terrorist to travel from borders. It was stated in our february hearing there was work to be done in this area. I know that a committee has a task force that is examining this issue and we should be receiving their recommendations soon. Mr. Chairman, as i stated in our last hearing on this issue, we all have to prevent terrorist attacks against americans and on american soil. I encourage this committee to continue serious discussions on how to counter violent extremist messages while protecting constitutionalal constitutionalal Constitution Constitutional rights. We need to Work Together to pursue new approaches to stop violent extremists. I ask consent that the gentlemen from texas, mr. Sessions, the chairman of the rules committee, also represents garland, texas, be allowed to sit on the meeting and be allowed to participate. The gentlemen from texas is recognized. I would like to be recognized out of order for two minutes. Without objection. I appreciate you and the Ranking Members indullgence and i will yield my two minutes to pete sessions. Mr. Sessions is recognized. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much and thank you to chairman smith, my colleagues from san antonio for yielding time to me and i want to thank the young chairman of the Homeland Security committee, the gentlemen from austin, Michael Mccaul and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to participate in todays hearing to discuss the isis inspired terrorist attack in garland, texas. As the proud representative of the 32nd Congressional District of texas i am pleased to notify each and every one of you that all of north texas is committed to fighting terrorism specifically the city of garland, texas is a diverse, allamerican city that attracts families and businesses with its thriving economy and growing opportunities. Since 1891, the city went from a cotton growing city to a thriving area with almost a quarter mill nion people that call texas home. The mayor of garland, texas works closely with others and local officials including the school board and other communities and leaders to insure garland is a safe city to live in. On may 3rd, 2015 a Garland Police officer swiftly acted to protect the people of garland from what could have been a devastating event. I would like to thank the officers who saved countless lives. I remain committed to uphold our duty as elected officials to protect the people who we serve. It is my sincere home in todays hearing we can learn positive lessons so that other cities and communities can be as prepared as garland, texas if an event were to happen in their committee. Thank you. I yield back my time. Open statements may be submitted to for the record. Please today have a panel of witnesses before us today on this topic. The first is John Mulligan joining the National Counterterrorism as Deputy Director and was associate director for the terrorism at the National Security agencies. Francis taylor is next. Secretary for intelligence and analysis at the department of Homeland Security since april 2014 and before that was assistant sept of state for Diplomatic Security and office of foreign missions. And we have Michael Steinbach finally who was fdi director and is the assistant director of the Counterterrorism Division in july of 2014. Prior to assuming his current position he served as Deputy Assistant director of the Counterterrorism Division in the acting section chief of the fbis International Operation center. I want to thank you for being here. The chair recognizes Deputy Director John Mulligan to testify. Thank you, chairman mccaul, Ranking Member thompson and members of the committee. I look forward to discuss the growing use of social media for National Security. I am pleased to join my colleagues. We Work Together every day as part of the counterTerrorism Community. This morning i will speak briefly about the recent attacks in garland, texas and the role of social media in that event and then transition to broader remarks on isils use of social media before concluding efforts we and partners across the federal government are pursuing to counter that avenue of threat. As has been described, last month, two u. S. Citizens attacked an art exhibit and cartoon contest in garland texas. The attackers arrived on the day of the event, exited their car and opened fire with semiautomatic semiautomatic rifles injuring a guard on the scene. They were aware of the potential violence and responded quickly to prevent injuring or killing others. This Event Highlights the growing threat the nation faces from a new generation of terrorist operating from a far often who use social media to find likeminded associates within our borders who can be motivated to violence attacking with little to no warning. An isil supporter on twitter hosted a link to information about the cartoon contest a couple weeks beforehand and the message suggested extremist should follow in the footsteps of the Charlie Hebdo attack in paris. Days later, one of the attackers reached out and asked to move communication to private twitter messaging and the same individual urged members to follow the account of a known isil member. Hours before the attack, the attacker posted on his twitter terrorist attack. Isil operators praised the attacks and urged others to follow suit. They highlighted the attack in their online magazine. And like any brand that seeks to you are like any brand that seeks to target young people, you isil continually innovates and you its Online Marketing to insure it is developing affectively crafted messages and using well known platforms like youtube, facebook or and twitter isil works to make i feel sure they reach audiences and far and wide through i far and wide through reposting and and translations into multiply languages. I a they employ marketing trade you craft, attaching messages to trending topics in order to gain additional readership. Their social Media Presence is since the beginning of year isil published 1,070 pieces of a terrorist information. You you are a they are timely in delivery underscore isils you and you commitment to master social media tools to advance their objectives. You isil shaped their media content to amplify the affects of the violent opportunities to inject power and intimidation and employ appear approach to he will and enhance recruitment you enhance recruitment a you projection of the caliphate as an idealized familyfriendly environment in when personal you environment in when personal fulfillment can be realized. This has induced large number of are young people to make their way to combat zone of syria and you iraq. Isils social media operators are in you have pursued a new line of effort and following will statements from isil i leaders encouraging loan attacks in the west these operators are practicing online and you operators are practicing online and recruitment and were provisions of terrorist organizations. You as we have seen, some and individuals have embraced the messaging and sought to commit acts of violence on this bases. When it comes to countering the you spread of isils violent messaging several social media platforms have closed down are platforms have closed down accounts advocating terrorism and violent attacks. You a however, efforts to a prohibit the propagation of you prohibit the propagation of and violent messaging has not been universal and there is much you been universal and there is much work to be done to encourage greater vigilance and a broader sense of Corporate Responsibility to address this threat to public safety. We are employing the knowledge are we have developed that has been developed by the u. S. Counter Terrorism Community to refine and expand our efforts. You we have seen a steady in and proliferation of in Community Engaged initiatives across the state working the goal to give communities information and tools they need to the threats needed and to engage it before it manifest in violence. And in with our dhs colleagues and we have created and deliver a resilience exercise program, a in and table top exercise that brings together Law Enforcement and Community Leaders to run through a hypethetical scenario in and potential responses. In summary we need multi level a you Partnership Efforts to enable local u. S. Communities to and deal with the dual you capabilities of addressing radicalization and insuring responses when an individual moves from radical ideas to you radical violence. We need to communicate the knowledge so it could be used to minimize the application of terrorist online tactics against our citizens. You you you you i will stop you i will stop there, mr. You chairman. Thank you for the opportunity to you address the community. Chair new recognizes secretary taylor to testify. Chairman mccaul are representative thompson, and members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to appear with my colleagues to you discuss the homegrown violent extremist threat. The terrorist threat is in and decentralized and complex in decentralized and complex and not constrained to one group and not constrained to one group, race, ethnicity, origin in race, ethnicity origin, and religion or geographic location. You isis and others have will and will are expanded their recruiting at home and continue a to be effective in recruiting foreign fighters from western countries to travel to syria and you iraq. Core alqaeda and affiliates are in a remain a major concern for dhs the group and their affiliates maintain the intent you and and in some cases the he is capability to facilitate in capability to facilitate and his ability and to conduct attacks against u. S. Citizens and facilities. The attack planning continues you despite our persistent efforts to disrupt them. Through the sophisticated and messaging capability as mentioned, isil has been able to you and i reach a global and reach a global you audience and encourage acts of violence and inspiring citizens to travel to syria to recruit and you radicalize the balance of the western homegrown homegrown will and extremist at home. Will mobilized offenders present a Law Enforcement with limited a opportunities for detection and disrupting their plots. The recent attacks in texas realthe recent attacks in texas reinforce the importance of close sharing information and between dhs, fbi, and other state, federal and local partners. Prior to the attack the fbi and dhs served with texas and local you dhs served with texas and local Law Enforcement warnings and will that the event was at and that the event was at risk for being targeted for violent are for being targeted for violent extremism. This led to the action taken by you in Garland Police that thwarted the attack. A this is information and intelligence sharing with partners. Dhs, ina, and the national you and Protection Division field personal are instrumental in this effort and provide you and measures that help build resilience across the country. A as an example of intelligence you sharing between dhs, ina and our state and local partners he will was the protest last week in phoenix, arizona this past weekend. We proactively contacted partners on the ground and shared intelligence from the fbi and and dhs sources in real time to insure local leadership and Law Enforcement had the necessary information to protect is their communities and their citizens. Additionally we reached out to a the Faith Community in phoenix to provide information regarding the fopotential violent activities so they could take a activities so they could take a preventive action. It is important to build partnerships with state and roque alexanderal Law Enforcement that enhances a community relationships, and builds extremist violent recruitment. A dhs has a Senior Executive you now, the dhs cordinators a sole role is to work the efforts. You are the new strategy has new and strengthened the local communities and the premise that well informed and equipped will families and communities and represent the best defense against violent extremism. A against violent extremism. Dhs will work with colleagues and partners and within the state department to identify potential threats to security both at home and abroad. Chairman mccaul, and Ranking Member thompson and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. The chair recognizes assistant director Michael Steinbach. Good morning chairman mccaul, Ranking Member thompson, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you and discuss the recent terrorist influence that go across boundaries like never before. It is aiding in the rhetoric and encouraging attacks on the homeland and abroad. As the threat to harm evolves we must adapt to confront the challenge and this includes working with state and local partners. We continue to identify individuals who try to join in support of isis and the homegrown extremist that conspire to attack the United States within. Conflict from syria and iraq entice western base extremist who wish to engage in violence. Upwards of 200 americans have travelled or attempted to travelled to join the extremist groups. We analyze what isis influence on those in the United States who are inspired to create acts of violence. These are the highest threats among the fbi and Intelligence Community as whole. The Group Continues to attract like minded extremist. Isis as constructed a narrative that is appealing to many walking through life. It seen by many who click and receive social media push notifications and participate in social networks. Isil has advocated for attacks against militarily personal and Law Enforcement personal. They are posted names and addresses of military member do is the internet that went viral. Community and world events may entice an individual to act. As we have seen with highly publicized events it will attract the media and may inspire copy cat events. It encourages the call of isis and the power of viral messaging. As i stated in previous opportunities i have had to testify before the committee there is no step profile for the consumer of the propaganda but one trend continues to rise and that is the inspired youth. We have seen children and young adults drawing deeper into the narrative and they are comfortable with communication platforms especially social media networks. Conversations occur in public social media sites and others take place via private platforms. It is imperative the fbi and organizations understand the latest tools and are equipped to identify terror attacks on the homeland. We live in a Technology Society and the terrorist have adapted. Social media is the latest tool exploited by terrorist. With the widespread distribution model and encrypted communication it has a free zone to recruit, radicalize, plot and plan. We need to assess the laws that apply the matters and work with private industries toward Technology Solutions to correct the narrative. This is not a conversation about National Security at the expense of privacy or about weakening security of communication products through creation of technology backdoors. If the Legal Process shows the evidence of a crime gains access to the front door with full knowledge of the companies. The fbi seeks to insure no one is above the law so the bad guys can walk away there is a balance between security and privacy. The fbi and partnership with dhs is utilizing all techniques and method to combat the threats the individuals pose to the United States. Along with domestic and foreign partners we are collecting and analyzing intelligence information as it per tain do is the ongoing threat poised by terrorist organizations. In partnership with federal, state and local agencies assigned to Counterterrorism Task forces we remain vigilant to protect the public. I thank you for the opportunity to testify regarding isis continued threat. I now recognize myself for five minutes. I want to first pull up on the screen what i consider to be an internet conspiracy to conduct a terrorist attack. I was a federal prosecutor and worked on direct cases organized crime, there are a lot of similarities but this one is conducted completely on the internet. I want to commend the fbi Homeland Security, and the joint Counterterrorism Task force for their text book model case efforts in both the garland attack and most recently in boston. That is the way it is supposed work. Unfortunately we have yet to get it right every time and they just have to get it right once. But this shows what we are dealing with the threat gone viral. Yeah, this guy was an isis follower in somalia directing attacks against the cartoonist competition and mr. Simpson who responds and as the attack is being conducted we have the chief isis recruit recruiters hackers directors for terrorist attacks congratulating them and basically saying that the knives have been sharpened and soon we will come to your streets with death and slaughter. I guess my first question is to director Michael Steinbach. This is just a microcosim of the conspiracy and threat on the internet we are looking at. How many potential recruiters do you think we have sitting in syria, and somalia and Northern Africa actively recruiting acts of terrorism globally . That is a good question, sir. I think you could refer to the Brookings Institute study on terrorist use of social media in particular twitter and it gives you an idea. When you look at the volume of social media and its availability to spread horizontally you are looking at a couple thousand core uses, and probably in the area of 50,000 individuals retweeting that message and upwards of 200,000 say for instance republicceiving the message. That is the pool to start and that is ballpark numbers. Social media is a great tool for the public but allow for the horizontal distribution that is difficult to follow. That is the baseline numbers we start with. So you said it has been reported as many as 200,000 proisis tweets per day occur on the internet. Is that correct . I cannot give you the exact numbers. It is a large volume and that is the trick, right . What is somebodys individual right to tweet and say what they want to say verses somebody who is going down a different road . More nefarious. So that is the starting point. Trying to cull through that and see who among those individuals are up to no good and who are plotting an attack on western fluence. And that is the great challenge; to try to monitor the communications to the extent you can. It is hugely problematic. Social media is great. It is out there, open source, but the volume is emense and i am talking about the open side of social media, not the encrypted messages. How many followers are actually in the United States in your estimate . So i think it was stated at last there is hundreds, maybe thousands, it is a challenge to get a full understanding of just how many of those passive followers are taking action. And i read some of these twitter accounts and tweets they have thousands of followers and thousands following which means they are actively communicating and with each other and then lets go to instant messaging and they go into a more secure space where if we have coverage we can pick up that communication but as you suggested in your testimony then they have the ability to go into what is called dark space, to another platform, that is secure and we tonight have the ability to monitor these communications. Is that correct . That is correct, sir. To me that is one of the greatest concerns i have. Do we have any idea how many communications are taking place in the dark space . No, we dont. And that is the problem. We are past going dark in certain instances. The ability to know what they are saying in these encrypted communication situations is trouble troubling. I think it is a tremendous threat to the homeland. Do you have any recommendations for the congress . I think we need an honest conversation and get past the rhetoric of what we are talking about. This is not large scale surveillance techniques. We are talking about going before the court, whether the criminal court or the National Security court, with evidence, a burden of proof probably cause, suggesting a crime has been committed or in our case there is a terrorist and showing that burden of proof, having the court sign off on it, and then going to the providers and requesting access to the stored information or communications is ongoing. We are not looking at going through a backdoor or being nefarious. We suggest and are imploring congress to help us seek legal remedies to that and asking companies to provide tech nilogical solutions to help that. We understand privacy. Privacy above everything including safety and freedom from terrorism is not where we want to go. I think the community should be looking at this important issue. Finally, if you can comment on the most recent boston case, it has been reported that this was a isisinspired event to attack Police Officers we know they call to attack military instillation instillations and Police Officer and i know this is an active investigation but to the extent you can comment on this would you do so. The investigate is early on there is not a lot i could say on the intelligence side. You are right, we know isil put out messages to attack the west specifically Law Enforcement and military, we know they have been looking at those target sets and we are careful where they are out. The counterterrorism subjects are being monitored for any type of action, any time of overt steps, mobilization factors and when we see those we are not taking the chance. I appreciate and we commend your efforts in this most recent threat. With that the chair recognizes the Ranking Member. Michael steinbach, you went into great detail the challenge of social media and other things. Do you see the challenges or the re sources do you job . I dont feel we have a resource issue. We did an effective job working the state and locals to focus the target set. We have to prioritize resources but the challenge is the techn technilodgetechni technilogical issue. Explain that. When a social media elects to build in their Software Encryption and leave no ability for even the company to access that we dont have the means by which to see the content. When we intercept it, it is encrypted communication. So that is the challenge working with the companies to superintendent encryption above all us. There is nothing from a congressional standpoint authority you need from us to make that happen . Well, i think Congress Passed law that was put in place many years ago that required telecommunication providers to provide assistance to Law Enforcement and i would suggest that is a starting point and we need to expand who is bound by that law. Telecommunications providers a small subset of the companies that out there providing communication these days. I think as a starting point that would be helpful. Can you provide the committee with beyond the starting point in terms of where the department thinks we should be going in this direction . I could. More appropriately the fbi Operational Technology division has the lead on that. I think we ought to try to make that part of what we do. According to your testimony videos and tweets and messages are probably not enough to radicalize individuals who are beginning to show these tendency. They serve as discussion points. What do you do about online portals that start people down the slope . It is part of a dialogue. They start out by trying to gain your interest. It is marketing and advertising. As michael indicated there are followers. We need to help educate members of the public about this process. We have been trying to do that with dhs so as michael said family members are aware if children are spending a lot of time on this they need to counter this and execute some degree of measures. These individuals are very savvy and they are understanding of the gradual nature of recruitment and operational. They create images that are attractive and broaden that. General taylor, can you tell us where dhs fits in this space in terms of trying to do the Community Engagement in other kinds of things that can help what he is talking about . Yes, sir, certainly. As my colleagues on both sides mentioned it starts with the intelligence to understand the tactics our advisaries a using to reach in the units community. And we go with the environment to conduct resilience and teach communities about the tactics, techniques and procedures and what to look for and how to spot and who they may report to about that activity so they can intervene at the earliest possible stage. Secretary johnson has done six of these this year. He is out doing one this afternoon. It is a clear part of our strategy to insure the communities understand the threat and how it is being manifested. In my mind, it is almost like what we do with predtory behavior with child molesters. We have to inform parents of what is happening on the internet so they can monitor what children are doing and seeing on a continuous bases. Do parents who are monitoring, do they have enough options out there i think the child might be engaged in this behavior. Who do i call . The local Law Enforcement . The fbi . Or have a put my child in a situation where have something between Law Enforcement and the parents that can help mitigate the circumstances . Certainly, i think the opportunity is to for the community to engage for the schools to engage before it gets to a radical action that requires Law Enforcement involvement. What we try to do get communities to understand is they are part of the solution. It is not just the Law Enforcement solution we are looking for. We are looking for communities to be engaged and understand and intervene when these events occur. There was a recent case where there was father in new england his daughter went missing. He went to the airport and said i think my daughter is leaving. We were able to find his daughter. She was not at that airport but another one before going overseas. That happens every day with someone having that challenge. It isnt a Law Enforcement response. It is helping parents be good parents and helping the children not make bad mistakes. Thank you. Mr. King is recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Let me thank all of the witnesses for their testimony today and the service they have given our country. I would like to slightly disagree with something the Ranking Member said or maybe more about clarification but whether or not isis use of social media can by itself cause someone to carry out violent action. We had new york case where a man in queens attacked two Police Officers with a hatchet and it doesnt appear of a long process of radicalization. He was responding to a director from isis. And we had two women, this might have been a longer process, with ieds in their apartment and they both seemed to primary means of radicalization was the isis use of social media. Am i correct . I would suggest congressman you are absolutely correct in they believed they are able to operationize people solely through social media. They believe they can enter into the dialogue and provide the tools and they are not getting into complex tools. But they are telling them is here are tactics and procedures you should use and here are readily available Information Online you can exploit. They believe they can provide them everything they will need to undertake some kind of lone after attack. So, i think you also hit on an important point and that is the diversity of the threat. You have a slow burn and individuals that flash the bang quick. We have seen more of the flash to bang with isil and their online efforts. Again, it isnt just going some place on the internet and looking it up. Social media push is coming right to your pocket via your smart phone. So it is a diversity of threats. You are right in that it all depends on the individual. But we have to be prepared for both types of situations. As far as the dock areas where you cannot go right now, it would seem in those instances it is more important that human sources on the ground can fill in those gaps. And maybe this is rehetorrhetorical but with the talk of snooping and spying makes it harded to recruit people on the ground. In boston, if this was two days ago and the Associated Press and New York Times uncovered the fact the Boston Police were following the alleged terrorist it would have been snooping and spying and now it turns out it is affective surveillance. I think the use of the terms are doing a disservice as far as enabling Law Enforcement to recruit people on the ground. You said you want to work with the community, and you do, but the onslaught from the media and certain people in politics talking about snooping and spying undoes a lot of the good you do. I dont know if you want to comment on that. But anyway, comment fine if not i will leave it. I agree with you. You have to have people online and in person trying to research this. We try to put sources in situations where there is a predicate predicated situation but it is a challenge. I would indicate this is a total human fight taking humans, what i Call Transactions and looking at travel patterns and those things to come to this and certainly in communities they sometimes feel they are looking at us too much as opposed to another community and our response is generally the bad guys are trying to recruit your kids that is why we are talking to you. It isnt because of your religion. But what the bad guys are trying to do and that is why we are hear talking to you about strategy. They are encouraging the use hope threats. What happened on memorial day with ten different hoax threats called into the airlines and they were called in again this weekend. If that is a response to isis, are these a person carry out a hoax or what . We dont have creditability threats to aviation so those appear to be hoaxes. Tracking them back to an individual or group is still on ongoing process. But isis said the use of the hoax itself is an effective means of attack . Yes. I yield back. Mr. Richards is recognized. And i guess i will start with mr. Taylor. You mention there were about 1700 messages sent out on isil. How many, if you had to estimate, how many people did that reach . Certainly tens of thousands. 1700 separate publications via video release or online magazine release but certainly in the thousands to tens of thousands. We are not seeing similarities or consistent traits across the board in the people that start to engage are we . Well, sir, it is partly about what the actually video is about or what they are trying to insight. We are concerned when we see someone who is lets say a twitter feed that is being followed and they are really strongly advocating violence. I think the fbi is paying particular attention to those. Who are there things that we can do you to encourage others to protect themselves . And i guess now i will get into sensitive areas. To depict or make fun of islam. But in my mind anchor is my mother not to walk down dark streets and night is dangerous. I would get upset if someone drew cartoons of jesus are called mary a slut. So if you know they are a social media expert and they are good are we inciting some of this with our or some peoples hatred toward their religion and other things . Only fueling some of this fire . Sir, sir, i think i would answer that question simply by saying the constitution of the United States of america and our rights and freedoms or something that stands in the way of our enemies effort to create a global caliphate. I do not think anyone event fuels this. It is coming at our system of government come our freedoms is what they are trying to undermine they are in the new cycle. You dont see a spike in people following after events like this or any rise in social media conversations when you have a contest like that going on . Of course you do. I guess thats my question. Again, in america those kinds of conversations happen everyday. As a part of our Constitutional Rights in this country. And so saying that we should stop doing something year what caused them to stop doing it there. They will there. They would find somewhere else to look for a reason to attack america. I agree with that. But i i guess my question i think that a guy thats going and around the lady walking down a dark alley is going to rob in a dark alley is going to rob somebody, but i will encourage my mother not to walk down an alley so it will be heard so that it is not easy prey. I guess it is our constitutional right to say what you want but i promise you if you, mother a name there will be consequences of repercussions. I just dont think that we are the having that honest conversation were talking about young people, angry people people who are picked picked on. I mean, you know, there are some words that will trigger a response, but you have the absolute First Amendment right right to say it. And that it is up to me whether i want to exercise my discipline or hit you in the mouth. The question becomes how often we will we get hit in the mouth for realize that we may be playing into it unnecessarily by being callous and cool. Thank thank you for your in questions and thank you, mr. Chairman. I think the gentleman. Thank you. This is a difficult subject trying to find the line between privacy and security let me ask you this, there are folks that might wear their heart on her sleeve regarding the circumstance, radical islam. A and they might be having a conversation openly and social in media where they espouse their opinion which might lead them to be a target for some of a these individuals if you know what, i mean, and even some of the folks in this building, somebody building, somebody that is having this hearing today are someone that is asking questions. Do you folks have any way, or do a the platforms of anyway of monitoring traffic about those individuals that might have had a a conversation with a friend openly on opensource online about their disdain for radical islam or tax and might have been disparaging about it . Do they become a target . Does that individual become a target . Do social platforms have a way of monitoring it . You collaborate on that . Is that the chill . A is there a Chilling Effect for free speech, people feel like they might be targeted because of the thoughts posted openly and social media. Im not sure i fully a understand the question. Social media platforms usually asocial media platforms usually abide by the terms of service a agreement. A small compliance departments. I dont think think social media a companies are doing anything along the lines that you speak. As far as the intelligence partas far as the Intelligence Committee or Law Enforcement monitoring those individuals exercising expressions of freedom and becoming targets , we dont have a mechanism in place to track them. The jacket from the other side. If you see threats coming. Eventually. We are not tracking it from the other end. If someone comes to us and says i feel threatened of course we will look into it. As far as a datable, no. Or you are go ahead. If i could also offer another bit of context, when you are operating on social media, particularly the barley available public platforms your in open space you can be monitored by any entity out there, commercial entities educational institutions, the media, anyone can be looked at that. That is one of the challenges youthat is one of the challenges that i think people often concerned about frequently we are trying to encourage credible voices to contest the and ideological extremist that is being advocated and those folks are reluctant to do so because of the fact that they are concerned that they will i are become a a potential in become a a potential target of violence, and intelligence target, Law Enforcement target. We have been trying to do a collectively is trying to change the environment from the you perception of the Us Government monitoring of their activities, but i believe again it is open space. Any person enters into that space needs to understand that. When you talk about some of you talked about encrypted direct messages and dark space and direct messages and dark space, give me some examples. Essentially essentially just texting . Would that be considered offlimits to monitoring by the United States government even in cases where there might be an eminent planning and plotting. Is there any way and if its classified, thats fine. Im wondering from that perspective. If its not on facebook or twitter do we have the capability, the federal government have the capability you government have the capability and or do the providers have the capability in all your algorithms . The answer is no. Will the answer is no. 200 plus social media companies. Some of them build their feel Business Model around endtoend encryption. There is no ability currently you for us to see that. If that. Youif that. If we intercept the communication always sees encrypted communication. Some examples. You if we are talking just a texting, a texting, i no the program called cyber dust. Once you send it is received it disappears, and that would be you is that an example of dark space or is that just encrypted direct communication . You you dark space is a general term. There are lots of miles out a there, models, social media that go pointtopoint and once you read it disappears, not saved. A some companies you can set how long a text is saved, some of them are encrypted from the start, most of them are text type, some are photographed. Graph will there are all there are all kinds of different models. Will models. Some are like Bulletin Board formats. There is lot a lot of different youthere is lot a lot of different formats. And all of that is offlimits right now to the federal government. Not that it is offlimits but there are more and more companies building a platforms that do not allow us. We will still seek those a companies, companies, but if the company has built a model that even they cant decrypt than it does not do us any good. Thank you. I yield back. You are recognized. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your information sharing. I want to tag on a little bit to the congressmans congressmans question. I want to get at something that i have not heard a lot about. I am i am reading that theyre really is no sort of common denominator here, no religious zealot individuals being you zealot individuals being radicalized or even necessarily no what the islamic religion is all about. It is not socioeconomic, racial or ethnic. What exactly is it . What is enticing about beheadings and violence and just very angry assault that our will young people are being you exposed to . What is stripping them and their attention to that kind of radicalization . Maam, if i can give you a little bit of context. And your context. Your right to describe, and one of my colleagues described earlier, the range of how can i say it, experiences and if you will ideological knowledge varies incredibly widely. You and what there seems to be you is, they is, they are appealing in some instances to if there is a sense of victimization that they are the individuals who are, those who will conquer, those who have been the victimizers. And so it appeals to that underdog nature. They really do they really do an effective job in communicating that sense. And as i said in my remarks, a they couple that with an ability to present, here is the idealized vision of what our religion presents command if you really want to lead the trappings of all the challenges and troubles are having in your current life and join us we will offer you more direction and meaning. So that is how they seem to be succeeding. They seem to be attracting you they seem to be attracting young people. Are we talking about middle school age, we talking what age are we talking . When we say youth, just how younger these people . I would say were seeing ages in the teens, probably upper teens in the 20s. We deem this a knew generation of terrorists. A lot of them are extremely converse of. They have grown up with it. So this is the means by which they use. I understand that. What is enticing them . What appeals to you when you see someone beheaded . You see these nasty threats on this violence . Are the victimization is something i would like. One of my favorite programs, the fbi profiler. So im wondering, is that a real thing . You do we is there such a thing as psychological profiling . Are we looking at those kinds of things . Are we identifying some traits that have nothing to do with ethnicity or socioeconomic or whatever, but other traits . And are we able to, like identify red flags in the children and young people in school in college . Because i just i just wonder whether or not we are expending enough energy and resources in trying to identify early on and intervene. Yes. You you the fbi does have a Behavioral Analysis unit. Within the National Center for the analysis of Violent Crime there is a unit dedicated to terrorists command it spends a lot of time looking at the parts of radicalization and are mobilization, what attracts in a folks. It is a very complicated piece. And quite frankly, we have seen as far as the profile is the lack of a profile. There are just so many reasons. We dont see disaffected. He we dont disaffected. We dont see we see some welltodo. Victimization is certainly a common theme. He i younger and younger individuals are drawn in to this he messaging. I would say they have done an effective message that they have will effective message that they have said publicly, caliphate is here. Come now to a country where a country where sharia law rules. Bring your family. They have messages it across the life spectrum to a wide block of individuals. Let me ask this last question. Should we be engaging the department of education, the Higher Education in identifying programs and approaches and sort of learning devices that would be able to anticipate and deal with our younger people who are affected by whatever it is that is turning them on hear . Yes, we should and are beginning to work with the department of education on these kinds of issues because it is a whole community effort. Will it is not just the police not just the churches but education, civic organizations well. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Think at some time i would i you at some time i would i would like for us to explore what more are can be done proactively in identifying and sort of intervening at an earlier state. Thank you for your indulgence. Indulgence. Your recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman Ranking Member for holding this hearing. A number of these issues we can talk all day long about. My 1st question is to mr. Mulligan and ambassador taylor the Community Engagement exercises and engaging credible voices throughout the committee. How do we make it bigger, how do a we accelerate on is projects . We have been developing a partnership. He awareness briefing and have been moving it out slowly initially to ensure that we have you you you you you a degree of success, but we have had some success and now were trying to train the trainer so that we can get into a situation where we are propagating broadly across community be his going back to some of the other observations that have been made it really is at the Committee Level that we need the success. Also, we need to have i think as the Ranking Member said, levels between government and local. A lot of this is particular family members, people are reluctant to engage any sort of authority. We need to try and find middle ground. And i appreciate that because we need to think about this in will terms of weeks, not years. That is the is the speed at which we need to counter the threat. Ambassador taylor. It is a global phenomenon. Our Outreach International has been important as well. Im leading a delegation to australia next week to further our communication with their you partners about this phenomenon and how we can engage communities across the world to better so that they better understand. Because in order to make the fbi job easier this lone wolf idea, the only way we will stop that is by countering violent ideology. That is going to take a government effort. Human the government is responsible . The cbe activity. It is actually a shared responsibility between justice the Intelligence Community, dhs you and the fbi. And our deputies meet regularly to formulate those strategies you and implement the strategies within the us. My suggestion looking at unity of command. When command. When you have three people in charge of something no one is in charge. That is something we are plagued with. You my next set of questions is to mr. Steinbach. Are on counterterrorism the canon, terrorists are trying to do two things, kill a lot of people an and illicit countering terrorism responses in the government to upset a population. And so with that as the background, im a little bit nervous when we started talking about kelly expansion, these kinds of things. You i get i get nervous because the privacy aspect. My question, not to get too technical, does endtoend encryption provided by Many Us Companies prevent your ability to do attribution . In some cases yes. But not in all cases. On all cases. Are you suggesting that when you have a court order someone connects the terrorism that there are companies that are not cooperating with helping to get as much information as they can . No, i am no i am suggesting that companies are built upon a that does not allow them to help. But if your saying it does not prevent attribution because the key here is to try to find as much information so that we can, to exhibit the success you have had in boston, you were able to identify someone and use other tools to track them and you know, stop and prevent this happening. And that is a difficult task dont get me wrong to read i no how hard you guys are working maintaining the operational pace that you have maintained since september 11. It is unprecedented. You are the men and women who should be patted on the back and heralded another we have to make sure we protect our Civil Liberties and our borders at the same time. And when you talk about reviewing applicable laws around the Technology Challenges that your facing, i just want to be clear that you are not talking about putting a backdoor in software. No. Like i said in my prepared statement, im talking about full transparency, going to the companies we think could help us get the unencrypted information and the attribution piece is you he important. You depending upon the technology involved and this requires a technology specimen there are tokens that are used. And do not allow for attribution. It is not quite as simple as youit is not quite as simple as just using other techniques. And just using other techniques. You and sometimes techniques. Sometimes the attribution is not there, and i would be happy to discuss the classified setting in more detail just exactly what were talking about. I i would love that. Weve been talking about social media and digital tools. It also gives us an opportunity to do double agent operations to penetrate, you know, their ability. Ten years ago if you are anything close to an american you would get your throat slit. Now we have new tools order to penetrate the. You i have run out of time and i yield back to the chairman. If i could briefly we led a delegation investigating foreign fighters to the middle east and europes. We found that there is a counter and you narrative. This is not online the foreign fighters. Look fighters. Love the region. Some return some return inspired and more radicalized and some return very disillusioned from the experience. I think that narrative, the state department initiative, to get that narrative out there the better off we will be. So the chair recognizes mr. Price. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to ask you a couple questions. How does the Intelligence Community qualify an elevated threat from online . We all know, they raise the threat level. But specifically with this online communication, how do you rate what level the communication, how it rises to something that you really are worried about. It is i think a simple question with the competent answer. In answer. There are a lot of pieces of volume, volume, specificity, a volume, volume specificity whether or not they have i identified willing and sympathizers who will do something. A lot of pieces go into it. Many of those factors are present now. So either what is the biggest difficulty in terms of being accurate when you are trying to raise the level of a threat . As was stated previously, the social media is great because it you is out there. It is voluminous. Trying to weed through the thousands and thousands of individuals on social media and find all the signals, all the and noise out there and identify the signal. I it is a volume peace. Looking at social media requires a different business process. And going from there to finding a credible threat is a difficult process. You process. Yes. I mean, it seems like it would be. We have been talking this whole time about communication online. Is it any physical presence of al qaeda doing facetoface recruiting here in this country deck of country . I would say we have a small number of return form fighters who have been overseas and returned to the u. S. Where they are and who they are our best guess is we do not have isil sitting in the United States. We have individuals taking up the call to arms aced on their messaging. Not everyone who goes has come back a recruiter. Am curious as to whether there are people who dont go anywhere and are in a physical place and actually doing, you know, you know, whether in tandem with the online recruitment facetoface. Youre talking about the homegrown violent extremist lone wolf. There are number of factors that would call someone to radicalized. Does not have to be online. It could be a friend, an associate, other factors may cause that person to become radicalized. Online just happens to be when you look at the spectrum by volume lies percentage. If youre asking, do we have core al qaeda coming to the us and sitting here, i think we look to that look at that intelligence all the time. For the most part no. Thank you. I yield back my time. Mr. Duncan is recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Al qaeda led the way with inspire magazine which was an online publication. Are we still seeing inspire as prevalent as it was . Adopted that media . And is there a way to track . You got a website platform, is there a way for you guys to track who visits that page, he takes it and forwards that information if you can answer that for me. To answer your question, is still comes out periodically. That model has been successfully copied by several of the other affiliates and other terrorist related entities. They entities. They see that whole process of an online magazine as being an effective model. It has been adapted by isi l. They have a publication that is a a variation on it. They put out there information in multiple languages. To answer your question about our ability to track its propagation and will we are not able to do that. They put multiple links to it. As you can imagine, once something starts to propagate it is there and can reside in a number of places. That model does exist and continues to be employed. Again, it is extremely impossible track. Freshman members and people are just following this issue, i recommend you get inspire magazine and take a look at the information being provided. Ive never seen the information you were talking about. If theres a way to share would like to take a looks. Im interested. I went to europe to delve into these foreign fighters coming off the battlefield from syria whether they transited through turkey. When i was there by before i got to brussels of foreign fighter came back and shot of the museum, the Jewish Museum and killed three or four people and tried to flee to north africa. So the timeliness of my travels. But this was the beginning. You did not here about isis is much, not like you here about them now. At the time that foreign fighter that shot of the museum in brussels, germany knew about it and failed to let the belgians are french now because they were suspicious of Us Intelligence gathering through monitoring phone calls and all that. What are some of the challenges of tracking foreign fighters . You talk about core al qaeda. Im talking about the french guys that go over and get radicalized on the battlefield. How how do we track those guys and how successful have we been . That has been ironically an incredibly unifying factor among the Counterterrorism Committee across the globe. A lot of a lot of our western partners i mean, they have substantial foreign fighter flow issues. As mike indicated the shenzhen region in europe. You get there. Yes. That is something is something i tried to confront with regard to how they manage this. We have been sharing a lot of information back and forth with some of the means and processes we are trying to employed attract foreign fighters. What is what is also clear to us is it needs to be particularly with foreign partners the whole of government approach. We are trying to share with them the benefits we have experienced by ensuring that the free flow of information among the inner agency in many instances we develop an effective relationship with a foreign partner only to discover that the partner flow is not optimized to try and ensure appropriate Law Enforcement has been alerted. The bottom line is things are trending positively in the information sharing. The bilateral trade. Multilateral. Multilateral. The other challenges again. We estimate about 4,000 in total foreign fighters flowing. What we have seen, foreign fighters from over a hundred countries. Some of our other partners have developed effective mechanisms for tracking the foreign fighters and developing rehabilitation programs. It is a very big concern for us because eventually some people might end up applying for these in their countries so it is a high priority Intelligence Exchange with our partners in europe. I am out of time. I would ask that we delve into the effectiveness that might have to be in a classified setting. I yield back. And those classified breves with fbi and homeland and social media and the encryption challenges. Your partners dont as they go back into europe is a big security gap and parliament addresses that. It is work. It doesnt move as fast as we would like it to move but there is a glimmer of hope based on recent activity in threats and actions in europe that the europeans understand the importance of state dash tracking citizens so we have some hope there is light at the end of the tunneling for word of Going Forward. 80 and i apologize if the questions have already been asked but for that current status for that role if i could summon you know, i spend a lot of time as they relate to physical infrastructure can you tell me in your role with social three a and recruitment what you see in terms of the efforts of infrastructure and can you also describe what metrics come if any to be interested in cyberterrorism rather than physical attacks . That is the great question. First of all, we see more and more cyberintrusion with of counterterrorism. Your partners dont as they go back into europe is a big security gap and parliament addresses that. It is work. It doesnt move as fast as we would like it to move but there is a glimmer of hope based on recent activity in threats and actions in europe that the europeans understand the importance of state dash tracking citizens so we have some hope there is light at the end of the tunneling for word of Going Forward. 80 and i apologize if the questions have already been asked but for that current status for that role if i could summon you know, i spend a lot of time as they relate to physical infrastructure can you tell me in your role with social three a and recruitment what you see in terms of the efforts of infrastructure and can you also describe what metrics come , if any to be interested in cyberterrorism rather than physical attacks . That is the great question. First of all, we see more and more cyberintrusion with of counterterrorism. Where we are at now you see that same Counter Terrorist actors using cyberintrusion as the tool to see how effective they are most recently to become more adept at the cyberintrusion activities. I would add to those comments by saying this is a very high priority concern for the department of all men security with the Protection Division to work with the Critical Infrastructure every day across this country about the cyberthreat in general specifically about the actors so they are prepared for a and understand the threat to mitigate those attempts with the Critical Infrastructure. I would agree with those points. If it is the inevitable trend to move into that realm because it is a means by which they could affect damage in a costefficient way. And a high degree of maneuverability in cyberspace in physiological they would have those mechanisms. But we focus on that as a tool. Yes. Now i am supportive of efforts to incorporate countermeasures into this he the and the publicprivate Publicprivate Partnership like the program mentioned in your testimony. At the same time with those strategies is the credibility of the messenger to greatly undermine so how could we be sure there are independent voices without compromising . Sir, that is exactly the effort were trying to make. Is the question is to establish a process that people feel they have the tools to do that counter messaging. But there is still a cost deficit that needs to be overcome. And for those intermediaries to take up the effort. Before my time runs out the social media platforms have a prominent role cayenne you describe their relationship that each of your agencies have with those private operators of the networks are the institutional or based on personal relationships and what type of request to you make of these companies . I would say we have relationships with every country. We have to process. Based on personal relationships at the starting point but we develop more than that but each company is different it is not appropriate to talk about those within the company. I wish dad Homeland Security as the relationships evolve, as mentioned, we probably want to have these conversations classified. If i could read just late just quickly say people ask why redo that cyberoffensive attack, i guess once that is done it could happen rather quickly and then it goes down quite a bit. But the chair now recognizes the gentleman. Thank you for holding this critically important hearing and they get to the witnesses for being here today for all the important work you do. This attack seems do demonstrate the challenges isis poses today. We saw no civilian casualties and lawenforcement do exactly what they should have done to protect the public but yet we live in the unprecedented times were a failed attack by isis in that regard is still spotted as a women wear a failed attempt still plays into the merits they want to sell. We saw no civilian casualties and lawenforcement do exactly what they should have done to protect the public but yet we live in the unprecedented times where a failed attack by isis in that regard is still spotted as a women wear a failed attempt still plays into the merits they want to sell. As a former terrorism prosecutor who handled a number of members handling al qaeda there is an important difference. Al qaeda and isis are encouraging multiple attacks but al qaeda has done this with very little success in this seems isis has been very effective in this regard over a matter of months. With the situation it appears to me that isis sophisticated use of social media is a cascading effect to have a terrorism multiplier of sorts. And can use the ice is brand without having to join isis and it concerns me that it seems that they have created a terror franchise. So i want to quickly ask you if you think i am accurate in that assessment. I think that is an excellent characterization i would agree precisely. They have effectively leverage to that capability that exceptional capabilities and they claim to make maximum use of every opportunity to amplify defect in terms of the of victories on the battlefield the way they have treated our hostages. To squeeze perceptual power on social media. I would agree in that regard i have been doing this for a long time. I have never seen a terrorist organization, a Public Relations that i have seen globally to be effective. In addition and it is up focus on the western audience when they tweet in english they are at a much higher rates for car is a great propaganda messages that is focused on the western English Speaking audience. Talk about of message i went to focus on the cause and director, he with the Deputy Director talked about the unique narrative isis has created, a false narrative that involves a sense of community, a sense of the venture, the ability to find a spouse. All know how ridiculous the claims are but if they are susceptible to radicalization, it seems to be a successful there there from their standpoint. Since isis grew out of al qaeda from iraq why did they suddenly become the effective at crafting this message when al qaeda and other terrorist organizations have not previously . To be have any insight into that . I would point out the demographics that the Younger Generation of fighters who were much more conversant in a situation where they initially occupied territory where there was fairly advanced infrastructure so if you think over time in some instances al qaeda was not occupying optimal areas to leverage that infrastructure where isis did. They have a fundamental orientation into action that dominates their psyche and how they move. The other difference is social media was not as robust when al qaeda started as it has been since 2010 in the era of spring and house social media was used and propagated the use since that time. Just to further clarify he is absolutely right. But get the internet six years ago but somebody still had to reach into a forum and go into that but when social media comes to you is so far advanced in advance or in comparison to the internet. Hope you will indulge me to ask one additional question because what is important i want to find out to talk about the effective messaging that they have well Winning Brand that is disenfranchise to them what do we do to counter that message . In other words to create a boozing brand . Part of that is a kinetic military operation on the ground but from the social media standpoint is there a counter strategy . There is basically a threepronged strategy to link counter on the battlefield and and make eight be image they are successfully representing. That is their center of gravity. The second pieces whole cyberonline media piece just very quickly the range of options of over the top applications they can employ , and going back over the options available to the al qaeda . Now were in another universe of operational activities but nevertheless because they are operating a public space they have vulnerabilities and we should move aggressively to counter that. Number three is the space in terms of finding the credible voices to contest that ideological message. We have to work to give us all those points of never. I appreciate that. I yield back. Mr. Chairman. I am looking forward to a reading with a steady on terrorism and social media. I took a sneak peek while we were in their firm and i understand as of october last year there were 42,000 identified twitter accounts that were flagged and thousands disabled. And i kind of think that is good to view what is said. It is one way to try to prepare and prevent. Mr. Taylor there is a lot of talk about the programs and Community Awareness and Community Policing. We have known there is a lot of issues in the past that need to be addressed from a neighborhood level. But somehow we cannot translate that and we have seen a lot of tensions arise between local Law Enforcement groups and Community Groups that this has been ongoing saw what does Community Policing look like in my neighborhood or the northern part of california . Your question is a good question for griping Community Policing is Community Policing. I dont think it is about relationships with the community is that every serve as has the changed in 20 years and i have been involved is what happens with people who were from the community to build partnerships. That is what it is all about and i daresay that have been in Diverse Communities and majority communities but the same way never you have to build a relationship and the trust. Part of secretary johnson has spoken eloquently when he goes out to do Community Engagement he is mitt with skepticism and receives complaints about profiling and other concerns but you have to have that discussion also to build the trust. We talk about the things the Community Needs to know to protect themselves. I know well i want you to know i represent the airport which is to our demise that is controlled and managed by lax for car would like to hear more about the Fbi Joint Terrorism Task force in los angeles and how they are working with my local Police Department in ontario to ensure that training is happening not only for those officers that lax or lapd but for those who would be the First Responders should an incident happened spin refrigerate to resound task force isnt just including lax but all major airports of Orange County and ontario. Make an appointment to go to were that i am sure that office would be happy to give you a firsthand understanding how robust the task force is for our was just out there a couple weeks ago discussing with him to meet the folks but go see firsthand. Right. Will have the discussion off the record to bring to your attention that my staff recently went on a tour and i was saddened to have discovered while trading is happening among other agencies the ontario Police Department has not been invited to participate in much of that. Cat would be happy to have a conversation and also bring those concerns to his attention. Our Community Outreach with a dhs we are working hard with Police Agencies throughout california so if there is a deficit of training or something that teeeight just might help in ontario we are more than happy to have that discussion to make sure that training is available. Thank you. I want to thank each of you for being here today i have heard and i am amazed at your depth of knowledge and your dedication to the mission for right echo my sentiments of my colleagues but appreciate we were doing to keep the country safe. But i want to talk about the comments made and i want to make sure we are clear. I was a federal prosecutor 20 years to routinely engages sophisticated wiretaps Surveillance Program and our investigation benefit did briefly as the cybertelephone thank you. I want to thank each of you for being here today i have heard and i am amazed at your depth of knowledge and your dedication to the mission for right echo my mission. I echo my sentiments of my colleagues but appreciate we were doing to keep the country safe. But i want to talk about the comments made and i want to make sure we are clear. I was a federal prosecutor 20 years to routinely engages sophisticated wiretaps Surveillance Program and our investigation benefit did briefly as the cybertelephone industry developed as many technologies that first we could not monitor. Just to make sure what we are talking about for those internet sites and places out there that are dark, youre talking about to have access to them but not to monitor a without a court order but obviously if there is probable cause to monitor those sites . Absolutely correct. This isnt forcing them to go public to monitor everything but with probable cause to go forward. Go to the court for the courts order. Very good. Mr. Taylor you mentioned cbe to be our best defense with a violent extremism reaching out to programs to be the best defense for i could not agree more and i was with the chairman to talk to our foreign partners to see firsthand the issues of the task force and there are security gaps overseas that we cannot control. It leads me to conclude that the best chance to stop this in the United States unfortunately is not going to be on our soil. Not overseas yet. But what would you envision what is the best ways to build this program . I know we have some pilot programs nationwide. What would be the best way to build a . You mean in terms of Community Engagement . This is all a part of a broad set of strategies of Community Engagement. This country is one part of that. I think we learned a lot of lessons from los angeles denver, boston and minneapolis. Now the challenges to propagate those Lessons Learned to communities across the country that we are continuing to do. We believe the first line of defense from radicalization is the family and community and to go from there. The propagation of the training and engagement will help us achieve a better outcome in terms of what we are trying to get. Now we have the model of the Law Enforcement from Community Outreach and most attorneys offices have coordinators you envision that . Absolutely. It is a shared responsibility between dhs and fbi and of the Justice Department and it is all whole of government and local government ever not just the federal government the whole community. Gatt is jcs is the backbone of the antiterrorism efforts have done a terrific job but lately they are under more stress with the additional things they have to look into on a regular basis. It seems there is more of a reliance to get state and local lawenforcement involved. Is it a concern Going Forward that there are not enough federal agents Going Forward . I would be happy to answer that question. The reports last week were completely wrong. It is fully staffed. As you said, it relies on a Robust Partnership of state local, federal, and tribal agencies. Those resources are there. We certainly are not struggling to keep pace but we have to prioritize our targets, but we have a robust structure in place that relies heavily on the 17,000 state and local agencies around the country. I agree completely and i was the commander of the air force office of special investigation when the concept was created. I supported it back in the 90s, and i support it today as the best Law Enforcement process to get at the terrorist issues. The other thing we have done, and is not with the jttf. It relies on the 18,000 Police Organizations and First Responders. We have done a significant amount of training as they see something, say something. They are the force multiplier for the investigators as they focus on the investigation specific cases. I cannot speak for the resources but i can speak for Homeland Security and it has invested a significant amount of training and effort so people understand the threat and the risk and what to look for and to report that information on a continuous basis or for intelligence. One brief question. So the take away is if there is a resource issue, it is on the cb side with community of reach Community Outreach. If we can help you with that , it would help with the messaging . Certainly. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, two incidents this week demonstrated to me the prevalence of what the Community Hearing is about with a recruitment device. It hit there a close to home. One was a killing of a person. He was educated, went to school a few miles from where my children went to school and became radicalized. As you are aware he was on the fbi most wanted list and one of the major architects of what we are discussing here today with the internet message. He was killed in Northern Iraq last week. But then secondly in the area i used to represent is a the legislature where the terrorist incident occurred and i will congratulate you on your fine work with the reports that was linked with the Ongoing Investigation and to the on going recruitment for the internet. I looked at those things and i understand the importance of information sharing. What we concluded with the Boston Marathon bombing with the local, state, 202 7488000 and federal government to share that information and want to congratulate you to move that forward to improve that situation. It is very clear although not at this moment in terms of , actionable threats of the incidents that have occurred. We will have to expand that to local, state, and federal government and international because it is just a matter of time before any of these linkages materialize in a concrete fashion. I want to ask two questions. Number one. Given the fact it will be for areas four areas. We came back from a committee and understand the difficulties with our allies not moving forward with passenger name records that we take for granted here. Having Border Security even on the exterior european borders. That is not moving the way it should. Or the Technical Support that we offer to some of these countries is not being utilized for i. I still think we can Work Together with these countries on how we are dealing with the information sharing. We found some are more receptive than others in terms of information sharing not just there, but here at home too. The other thing is with the idea that were doing a good job to swat mosquitoes here at home but were not doing as good to dry up the swamp. Can you comment on the counter message. Go what we are doing through the internet to have competing messages. What more could be done . I will jump in on the first piece with regard to my national perspective. We are consciously trying to push the knowledge gleaned down to the local so theyre more fully informed. We have to do more and keep pushing that. On the international piece it becomes a real issue multilateral issue. But the challenge is if you try to address these challenges in the efficient way you need to air insurer a broader range behalf of the equipment so that is a longer term objective. In terms of the overall counter messaging our federal government has an interagency process that works at the speed of government and as you understand it has constraints and the real secret will be to broaden the overall counter messaging so they can participate in the process. First this committee has been very clear to me in my role as the undersecretary of intelligence analysis that the core customer for the intelligence that we do is staying local. We have worked very hard to transform how we approach the dissemination to state and local partners with the colleagues and the fbi, and others. But, specifically focusing to get relevant information out quickly to state and local partners. I do not know how many joint bulletins we have done this year, but it is over our record for last year. That is our commitment to receive information to get into the hands of First Responders. When we talk about our foreign partners you mention the e. U. That is reluctant to use across all the eu. Certain countries are moving forward with their own country. I was just in new york, and we talked about the resolution 1267. I think there is more pressure to get those laws passed and get those information. I would also mention that all of the visa waiver countries have independent Bilateral Agreements with us. It may be through the intelligence service, fbi or Law Enforcement. They are robust agreements we continue to press for the exchange of that information. It is not perfect, but the Information Exchange with the state and local partners and also the of foreign partners to seems to improve on a daily basis. Thank you for being here. Of all the hearings we have had i think this is the most productive and informative i have sat in on. One of the things were doing in the offices this week is with local Law Enforcement within the district. What i am saying with the lone wolf attacks, they are a reminder to all of us that they are not against us as individuals or citizens, but they are attacks on what we consider as freedom. Freedom of thought, freedom of religion or in the case of garland, texas was the freedom of speech. With that in mind, the contest seems to be in sight of these attacks, and understanding and knowing what happened at Charlie Hebdo in paris. I was just there. It would lead us to believe that this is a potential target. How far in advance of the event did counterterrorism know this event was happening . Was their coordination . We knew about it several weeks in advance and more specifically, this event, and the event in phoenix last friday, we do go to those organizers and layout the threat. We of course dont try to talk them out of it, but we do let them know. We knew several weeks in advance. You knew they were coming. How much interface do you have with local lawenforcement . It is multifaceted. We put out a joint intelligence bulletin that lays out the week in advance. We used a communication tool that collection emphasis message that asks agencies to collect intelligence on the threats and the event. We put out tactical reports. Depending on the size of the event, we have preparatory meetings to identify who has crowd control, emergency response. It is a multifaceted approach. The question is do we have 15 years to track terrorists and their activities or their threats. We have gotten to where we can filter through what is chatter or valid threat. How responsive our local lawenforcement to the threats . Do they take them seriously . Yes. We spend a lot of time pushing that message at the local level. As well as the executive level. Two weeks ago, we had a video teleconference with the director of the fbi to lay out the threat. Today, i will talk to major city chiefs on this topic. I would add we have created a Network Across this country. Whenever an event occurs, there is someone asking, what is the impact on my community . Our local Law Enforcement partners understand the primary responsibility to protect their communities. They understand these risks harm their communities, and they are hungry for information that would help them prepare. What we try to design is a system to get that information out there. Some of these questions that are more of a classified nature we can respond to later. Of the communications that we know happened, how much of that did we know before the attack, and how much played in to the warning that we sent to the local . I would be happy to answer that, but not in this setting. I appreciate that. The last one is the refers reverse flow. Do we have channels of communications for intelligence gathering from local lawenforcement . This was a National Event because it was out of new york, but you could have a local event that could be a high threat target. Is a great question and under the direction of this committee we have worked to expand the amount of local intelligence that is relevant. Not only working with the fbi but also independently with our Fusion Centers in the field. Fusion centers will do reports from the state level perspective. I think we have created the opportunity for state and local to report up and all of us to report down, and all of us to share. I will highlight that. The reason we push that out is to make use of the 400,000 state local, and tribal Law Enforcement officers around the country. They are the first response. They are seeing it well before any of us see it here. It is incumbent that we have the guardian process. It allows for reporting of information quickly into the Fusion Centers to act on that. That is the foundation of the process. Thank you, mr. Chairman and thank you gentlemen for your testimony today. I appreciate all the work you are doing. The question i have today is about recruitment of women and girls from our country. It seems like they are actively recruiting western girls. I cant imagine what the draw would be, but they are being lied to, like most recruits. Here, we have american girls that are being flown over there for a life of rape and slavery. How many of the women who have been how many of the americans who have been flowed over there are women and girls . I will not get into the specific numbers, but if you look 56 years ago, it was almost nil. 10 is a good ballpark but the fact it went from zero to where it is now is a significant uptick. We look at the reasons why individuals are recruited. The specifics of why young adult males and females. What draws them . That is a process to understand the motivation of radicalization and we see a wide variety. As part of the counting of it , do we have messages of no you will be in slavery and repeatedly raped when you get over there. Actually countering that with the graphic realities. The way you counter message is with a stronger message. Absolutely. We are doing some of that . At the local level as well . We are reaching out through the Fusion Centers to the communities and schools. My next question is about the use of social media for fundraising. I was wondering if you could comment on how isis is using social media. Either attempts to raise funds using social media . Specifically, how successful have they been . How are we cant drink them countering them . It is an arduous process to rebuild our understanding of what they are employing currently. In the expansion of the caliphate theyre taking possession of a number of resources, and exploiting that. To a large extent, they have been able to draw on those resources for financing and funding but nevertheless because of the fact they are the extended organization they have to manage that infrastructure. That is an intelligence effort that is under way. So the Online Fundraising is miniscule as compared to i know black market, and ransoms and all those that were focusing on but specifically on line fundraising . I dont think we see the same degree of on line fundraising that we have seen in the past. I would concur. Isis tries to motivate people but obviously i was is the military, those are the most secure areas. If they would recruit someone who has access, we could have a major impact from the and are you working with the department to counter that . As the chairman mentioned the department of defense takes this very seriously. They work very closely with agencies on how that risk might manifest themselves in the country. It is a secure place, but they have identified people by addresses. We have worked with the military on strategies for individuals to protect themselves at this point. It is reasonable for people to expect a very serious effort from our isis to draw military. We have to be especially vigilant to the effort to recruit military members. , thank you for your testimony and your service to this country. Members may have other questions. The record will be open for 10 days. Without objection, the committee is adjourned. Next, your calls and comments on washington journal. After that, newsmakers. Then president ial candidate announcements from this week. Rick perry lucas chafee, and lindsey graham. They are both good, but theyre different. He said, that is made off the bark of the tree that we take from the top down. That is made from the bark that we take from the root up. The only difference i have found between the democratic leadership and the Republican Leadership was that one of them was from the ankle up and the other was from the year down ear down. Them ultimately, i think like a lot of characters, he became demagogic, and was consumed by that. He was a maverick. He gave he gave just as much grief to his own party as be opposition. The senate has always had maverick, but if they are mavericks, nothing would get done. Senate historian and former houses story on the history of the house and senate. Its leaders characters, and scandals. Tonight at 8 00 eastern and pacific on cspans q a. This morning, tomas lopez talks about challenges to republican enacted restrictions to vote axis. Then, James Doroshow with the National Cancer institute discusses nationwide trials of cancer treatments using dna sequencing. Later, Frank Fahrenkopf looks ahead towards the general election, president ial and Vice President ial debates, and how parties should proceed with primary debates. As always, we would take your calls and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. Washington journal is next. Host good morning. President obama is in germany today for the start of the seven d7 summit. Congress is expected to debate fasttrack authority. It will likely pass, but it will be close vote. If it does pass, it will give the president of victory because republicans gave it to him. Live coverage on cspan. The hill has coverage on the 5 billion election. They think