Transcripts For CSPAN Justice Department Officials Testify On Foreign Agent Registration... 20170727

Join the discussion. Justice Department Officials agentied at the foreign registration act, which requires all to register with the government and disclose finances and recommended changes to the law and how it is enforced. Charles grassley chairs the Judiciary Committee. His is 1. 5 hours all today the committee will examine the Justice Departments enforcement of the Foreign Agents registration act. I want to thank the witnesses here today for working with the committee to schedule this hearing. I know that some of you even had to change your travel plans and i want you to know that the committee appreciates your cooperation. We had to postpone this hearing while trying to schedule two new witnesses and obtain the cooperation of a third who was first invited on july 5. It is unfortunate when uncooperative witnesses cause unnecessary inconvenience for those of you who are easy to work with. After he failed to negotiate to with the committee in good faith, i issued a subpoena in cooperation with senator feinstein to glen simpson for his appearance today. I crew the subpoena after mr. Simpson agreed to a transcribed staff interview about, number one, his involvement in creating the trump dossier and tractions with the fbi and, number two, his alleged work with the unregistered Foreign Agents who met with the trump family and campaign officials. Regarding mr. Manafort, negotiations for a similar agreement that Ranking Member feinstein and i were working on him with him broke down monday night and i issued a subpoena for his appearance. On tuesday night following consultation with the Ranking Member and a document production from mr. Manafort i withdrew the subpoena and we continue in additions for a future transcribed interview. With respect to mr. Trump he agreed early on to cooperate, produce documents and do a voluntary tribed inter edtranscribed interview so no subpoena was needed in that case so these three, then, will not appear on panel two today. Now, todays topic is as important now as it was in 1938 when congress enacted the law. There are two qualifications to be considered a Foreign Agent under the Foreign Agents registration act. The first is working directly or indirectly for a foreign principal. A foreign principal can be a Foreign Government, Political Party, corporation or a single individual. The second requirement is involvement in a political activity to influence u. S. Policy either as a publicity agent or a lobbyist among others. The basic idea is that foreign propaganda should not lurk in the shadows but should be fully transparent. The Foreign Agents registration act does that by requiring agents to register with the Justice Department. People should know if Foreign Governments, Political Parties or other foreign interests are trying to influence u. S. Policy or Public Opinion. Given recent russian and other efforts to influence our elections, this law has never been more important. Unfortunately, it appears that the Justice Department and the fbi have been seriously lax in enforcing the Foreign Agents registration act and for a long time. In the past 12 years the department has only sent 178 letters to people it believes should register as a Foreign Agent. Thats only 15 letters a year. Now, compare those 15 letters with what the Justice Department thinks that i send they happen to think i send more oversight letters than that in one week. Only nine people in the entire Justice Department work full time to enforce this law and monitor potential unregistered Foreign Agents. Its no surprise, then, that only 400 Foreign Agents are currently registered. Does anyone here seriously think that only 400 people in the whole United States take foreign money for pr and lobbying work . The inspector jeb said the fbi investigators and justice Department Officials cant even agree on what makes a good case for enforcement of this law. It is then no surprise that the Inspector General found that there is no comprehensive Department Enforcement strategy on fara, thats the acronym for the law. Between 1966 and 2017 the Justice Department brought only seven criminal fara cases. It has been 26 years since there has been civil injunction to enforce this. Why comply when the Justice Department clearly does not read this law is a priority . In the letter to attorney general holder i wrote about Sidney Blumenthals efforts to influence u. S. Policy by leveraging the relationship with secretary clinton. Mr. Blumenthal transmitted documents to secretary clinton on behalf of a Political Party. Ce did not require her to register. Activities on behalf of foreign interests to not require registration. It should simply say so. Particularly when the trump requiredation has Michael Flynn to retroactively register under the law and in a large part because he wrote an oped for the hill. The administration required paul llc tot, mercury register for their work on behalf of the ukrainian government. There has been a lot of reporting about unregistered Foreign Agents attention to influence u. S. Policy. Of example, a group unregistered russian agents allegedly worked to undermine the magnus the act magnet ski act. Magnitski corrupt government officials and organized crime. He was then arrested by the same corrupt officials and later died us prison under suspicio circumstances. It allows the president to sanction individual russian human rights abusers and freeze their assets in the u. S. The law was passed to a tireless browder. William mr. Ben nitschke was his lawyer and friend. Complaint anded a alleged that a group of unregistered agents were working on behalf of the russian government to get rid of the law named after his late friend. He said these unregistered agents lobbied congress. He said they organize a videoing of a propaganda with hill staffers and state Department Officials. The video smeared mr. Ben nitschke what this video represents is in operation, before and agents also published propaganda to news outlets trying to get bogus stories published by respectable organizations. Hearingarned after this , they apparently even lobbied the Trump Campaign and family. The Justice Department do not require them to register as Foreign Agents. Is glenn simpson, founder of using gps. Fusion gps. I have been asking about the russians who were working with fusion gps to smear him and undermine the act. Is thepsons company same firm that oversaw the creation of the unverified trump dossier. Around the same time fusion helped orchestrate a campaign to eal the magnet ski act magnitski act. There are reports the fbi used the dossier to kickstart the investigation. Did they know that fusion pitched propaganda for the russians even as it pushed the dossier . What would they say about its reliability . If it was represented to any court, should this fact have been disclosed . Two individuals has been in the news a lot. The first is a russian lawyer natalia read her asefer to him russian agent xyz. [laughter] a Russian Company received millions of dollars connected to crime for his uncovering. The other person is a russianamerican lobbyist with reported ties to russian intelligence. The New York Times described him arts. Aster of the dark these were reportedly at the meeting with the Trump Campaign with family members last summer. They offered dirt on the opponent to get a meeting and made their pitch against the acts. Great was i t bait and swtich . Hopefully we will get answers on that point. Pursue details about mr. Simpsons role in the creation and circulation of the dossier that started this whole controversy. Knowing exactly who was acting on behalf of the russian to get to is vital the bottom of the influence in our democratic system. Fara must be and forced otherwise it will not be taken seriously. I look forward to discussing the witnesses additional steps. Now it is my pleasure to turn the table over to my Ranking Member. Let me begin with a comment. In q4 bringing everybody up to date on the discussion on the witnesses that were on the schedule here but are not at the present time. That is very helpful so thank you. The Foreign Agents registration act or what our chairman faraectly called far of is at an important issue particularly when we face interference in our democratic process by a specific country, russia. Enacted in 1938, a long time ago, it was in acted to ensure the public was aware of efforts by the German Government and the nazi party to use a network of United States citizens to sway Public Opinion and United States policy in germanys favor. The law requires any individual working on behalf of a Foreign Government or foreign interest to register with the department of justice. It is not prohibit lobbying or other Political Activities area instead, it requires disclosure when those activities are directed by foreign interests. Long overlooked, it has received renewed attention in the last several months because of highprofile cases involving former National Security adviser flynn who registered the turkishy for government. The same time he was advising the Trump Campaign. Inl manafort also registered 470 million for lobbying work on behalf of the prorussian party in ukraine between 20122014. Unfortunately, late are nottions under fara a new problem nor are they limited to these examples you examples. In september 2016, the idg reported that exceed two percent 62 had been filed late. 50 were incomplete. I will let you draw your conclusions from that area that. My conclusion is authorities do not take the law seriously and we need to change that. There appears to be no meaningful penalty for late or incomplete filings. The the past 50 years Justice Department has prosecuted only seven cases. Instead, where violations are discovered, the department encourages compliance, creating a system where there are no consequences for failing to follow the law. I look forward to hearing from Witnesses Today about whether and if what changes should be made and what are the current law whether the current law is accurate. Problemsou for solving with other witnesses and i look forward to the testimony. Beside you thinking me, you have been very cooperative and i appreciate it. Thanking me,e you have been very cooperative and i appreciate it. Adam hickey is Deputy Attorney general for National Security the Division Security division. He manages the efforts to combat fromnal security threats 20132015. Cyberting deputy chief of for the counterintelligence and expert control section of the National Security division. He was also a federal prosecutor. In q4 being here. Thank you for being here. An assistant rector for the Counterintelligence Division at the fbi, he previously served as Deputy Assistant rector of Intelligence Operations Branch in the director of intelligence at fbi headquarters. He has worked at the fbi since 1998. Has been alitz witness before committee. As Inspector General for the Justice Department, he was anfirmed in 2012 and nationwide workforce of more than 400 employees immediately preceding this host, he was in private practice and also previously worked for the public Justice Department criminal division. The mission is to detect and deter waste fraud abuse. It hisses mission to promote the economy and efficiency in the department of justice. We thank you for being here. Would you stand now at this point so i can ask you to do your firm that this testimony will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so have you god help you god . They all affirm. Hickey, five minutes for quetioning. Questioning. Good morning. Thank you for providing me the opportunity to testify on behalf of the department of justice considering the act. The department appreciates the interest in fara. I know the committee has my written testimony. I will cover a few key points about the law, how we enforce it , and how the department has responded to last years report by the Justice Departments Inspector General. Fara requires persons in the United States to engage in specified activities as agents of foreign principles to register with the department. The purpose is to ensure the American Public and our lawmakers know the source of information that is provided. That information may be intended to influence Public Opinion, policy, or laws. It defines who must register and what they must disclose. It exempts certain Foreign Agents from the Registration Requirements and among other things it requires register agents to preserve their books and records and make them available for inspection. Because it is designed to encourage transparency and public speech and Political Activities, not to discourage that, it differs from other provisions of the criminal code. Who punishose espionage. Achievingy means of that transparency is encouraging voluntary disclosure in compliance with the act. The department will, of course, approve criminal prosecutions if there is sufficient evidence of a willful violation of the statute. The high burden of proving willfulness, difficulties including directional control by a foreign principal, and exemptions available under the statute, make criminal prosecution challenging. Despite these challenges, the fourrtment has brought cases since 2007, all of which resulted in conviction. Day to day enforcement is handled by a doj National Security division. A regular part of the work in that involves attempting to identify persons who may be subject but have not registered. On publicly available information and referrals for information provided by the government offices. If credible information success suggests they should register, them of thevise possible registration obligation and request a response. If the individual does not respond or the response seems incomplete or untruthful, we will followup. In some cases we may decide that a criminal investigation is appropriate and involve the fbi. Often recipients of those letters of inquiry will register. Filingsefully review for deficiencies, seek amendments, and conduct inspections to ensure continued complaints. Advisory and other tasks that i have described in my written testimony. How they haveress responded to the september 2016 sport of the in report of the Inspector General. , has implement it, and is working to implement the few that remain. As a result in february 2017 the oig affirmed that six or closed. The next to file Progress Report in august at which time we anticipate it will be in a position to close all remaining recommendations. Thank the committee for providing me this opportunity to discuss these important issues and i am happy to thank answer any questions. Chairman grassley, Ranking Member feinstein, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. My statement for the record has been submitted so rather than restating it i would like to explain why the issue before us is so important. A Foreign Agents registration act is critical because we need all available tools to combat todays counterintelligence threat. Unbeknownst to many americans, the threat posed by our foreign adversaries is growing. Both in volume and complexity. Our country is under Relentless Assault by hostile state actors and their proxies. Adversarial nations are not just using their Intelligence Services to conduct these assaults. They are pursuing their goals on economic, technological, military, diplomatic, and intelligence fronts. The his people from throughout their government and all walks inlike in pursuit like pursuit of strategic advantage of the United States in whatever ways they can. A lack of understanding of the scope and scale of the threat, combined with the fact that the threat is a gradual one, leads to many people to estimate underestimated. Our economy, National Security, and way of life are being actively threatened by state actors in their proxies today and every day. One example, i number engage in activities designed to influence u. S. Public opinion, policy, and laws. By requiring these to be conducted in an overt manner, by requiring agents to publicly disclose relationships with foreign principles, the American Public and the u. S. Government can evaluate the information these agents provide. When they do not disclose relationships with their foreign principles, we are more susceptible to being unduly influenced. This is what Foreign Agents who willfully failed to disclose their relationship with foreign principles may be criminally charged pursuant to fara. We live in an age where we are bombarded with information so it is more important than ever that we understand source its source, otherwise we cannot evaluate it. Fara requires Foreign Agents to publicly disclose fortune for whom they speak. In the counterintelligence realm of the United States needs every weapon in its arsenal. Lead the fbi is the domestic counterintelligence agency, the only way to effectively combat whole of government threats is through hole of government responses. The fbi is committed to working with the department of justice to enforce fara and any other statute that can be used against our adversaries. The fbi is equally committed to working with other u. S. Government components, the private sector, and foreign partners to do the same. In closing, thank you very much for holding this hearing. Awareness ofaises the counterintelligence threat and one of the tools that can be used to fight it. Feinstein, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to testify at todays hearing. Before agents registration act is an important statute that Congress Passed to ensure the people of the United States were informed of attempts by foreign principles to influence u. S. Public opinion, policy, and law. In september 2016, my Office Issued an audit on the departments efforts to enforce kara fara and the monitoring of registrations. We found that the number of registration has declined significantly over the last two decades and that criminal prosecutions and Civil Enforcement actions are rare. Additionally, we determined that over half of the year initial of the initial reviews were untimely and 50 of registrants filed at least one sixmonth supplemental late. In light of the information reviewed, we identified for general areas of concern. The department lacked a conference of enforcement aboutgy and we heard significant disagreements between the National Security division, the fbi, and assistant u. S. Attorneys that have such investigations were on how they were being handled and reviewed. Second, the division was having difficulty gathering the necessary information so it could identify when Foreign Agents have failed to register undered under required fara. The National Security Division Needs to improve monitoring, ensuring that registrants were applying with applicable filing mens and doing so in a requirements and doing so in a timely matter. They had not made a assessment for the sharp decline over the past two decades, including the decade the impact and whether any amplitude legislative changes should be sought. We made 14 terminations than they agreed with all of them. They related to enforcement efforts. Since the report was released, they have taken sufficient actions to close the three recommendations related to updating training for investigators and process readers, providing timely communication with fbi agents and federal prosecutors on the decisionmaking process, and working with the fbi regarding classification codes for section 951. Our recommendation that the nst develop an enforcement strategy and better track cases that remain open. We are told it is working to address those recommendations. Seven of our 14 recommendations related to improving the oversight of its Foreign Agent registrations. Two recommendations have been closed because theyve been automizedized response. The other five recommendations remain open. The address to link with the notices, the tracking of aisle closures, resolution of inspection reports, filing fees, and the use of its email system to address timeliness. We have been told it is working on each of those items as well. We made two recommendations related to legislative changes we have heard about. The first which is now closed, relating to the statutory 48 hour time limit for agent filing of informational materials with department. Our report found was not being met. To address this recommendation, they told us it is seeking to amend the statute to lengthen the time. Thatther recommendation remains open was to conduct a formal assessment of the impact of the foreign disclosure enforcement on fara and whether changes should be sought legislatively. Remaining these eight open recommendations, my office will continue to monitor the Department Progress to ensure they are implemented because we believe they will further one of the primary goals that congress had in passing fara. Greater transparency for the public about efforts by foreign principles influence Public Opinion and policy. This concludes my prepared statement. I would be happy to answer any questions the committee may have. I think all the members know that the twohour rule has been opposed. We have got to get through this panel and the next panel in one hour and a half. Anything that anybody can do to shorten their questioning would be helpful. One of our witnesses came from out of the country to testify. May i ask, doing no know who has invoked the rule . To believe any senator would block our ability to inquire into this important subject. I do not know. I hope members of the press find out and ask why they would block this hearing. We will have five minute rounds. I will try to cut mine short if i can to get to questions. According to the Inspector General, i am going to mr. Hickey, just as in the fbi are not adequately communicating with each other and have struggled to understand what qualifies as a proper charge. Since 1966, the Justice Department has only brought seven criminal cases in which only one resulted in conviction and two plug guilty. Why would a doj expect people to register and be transparent when they are not really punished for failing to register . Thank you. Let me begin by saying how i appreciate how appreciative i am for the report. I took my current position one year ago, and that is the first time i became responsible or the unit. It is very helpful when you take on a new position to have a roadmap that someone has put together that has issue spots where you need to focus problems to address. Let me express my gratitude for that report. As the report lays out, there may be an element, a terminology misunderstanding in some arts of the bureau in the Justice Department which were trying to justify. Many prosecutors refer to a different provision of the criminal code, section 951, which also has the words agent and Foreign Government in the title. Instead of referring to the act that we are discussing today. I dont think, at least sitting here today, there is a misunderstanding. We work hard to train prosecutors and agents in the , 20d what fara looks like , and ion looks like am aware in only a single case in which a Attorneys Office has proposed a humble charge that nsd has not proved. That was prosecuted under a different statute and conviction obtained. I think i made great progress towards educating our field and the need to bring them. The Justice Department and fbi adequately addressed how fara into the overall National Security efforts . If so explain, if not please explain what else must be done. We have not closed on the Commission Regarding the need for conference of strategy. We are looking for to the august update that we are due about that. Our review highlighted this disconnect and the lack of a bothrence of strategy, addressed on the fbi agents handling these cases as well as the National Security vision folks. Division folks. Not only were their disagreements about the number of cases and which were fara and which were not, but the absence of prosecutions and the absence of records to see what had happened with reviews that we heard complaints about. Mr. Hickey, leading into your next two questions im going to ask you, the department recently required the Podesta Group and mercury llc to register for engaging in Public Relations campaigns to the benefit of Foreign Governments. Public reports show a foreigncontrolled company hired fusion gps and glen simpson to do propaganda work in an effort to reveal the magnitsky act. To repeal the magnitsky act. They prort they reportedly dug up dirt about mr. Browder and his company. This covert negative Publicity Campaign would principally benefit the russian government. So without reference to that particular case, if a Company Engages in a Publicity Campaign on behalf of a Foreign Government to influence u. S. Law, does that generally create an obligation to register under fara . Ill get the hang of it. Thank you, senator, for the question and thank you for acknowledging my inability to comment on particular investigations or potential investigations today. Let me describe our practice. Where we see credible investigation to believe someone is acting as an agent of a foreign principal, we face a choice at that moment. In most cases we dont have indications of willfulness, meaning we dont have indications that the individual is deliberately choosing not to register but aware of their on ligation and in that case we would send a letter of inquiry and solicit more information, however if we had indications that the agent was acting willfully it may be more appropriate to go directly to a criminal investigation. I think in your question, sir, you used the terms on behalf of. On behalf i want to be precise, the statute applies to agents, so those working at the direction or control of a foreign principal. One of the challenges we sometimes face is that independent groups may have interests that overlap with or coincide with Foreign Governments and that can be a challenge to other determination that theyre acting at the direction or control of the foreign principal. Senator feinstein . Thanks very much, mr. Chairman. Mr. Horowitz, youve always been a straight shooter and thats very much appreciated. Ive been reading your remarks bottom of page three and top of page four where you have a number of recommendations. Yes. And you begin by saying nsd officials have difficulty compelling the production of information from persons who may be agents and therefore nsd was pursuing civil investigative demand authority from congress to help enhance the nsds ability to assess the need for potential agents to register and you go on and talk about including controls and oversight and you also speak about ensuring the statutory 48 hour time limit for agent filing of informational materials. I think its pretty clear that we need some legislation in this area. Would you be prepared to work toh us on a bipartisan basis strengthen this . Absolutely and i think my folks who did the audit have a fair amount of understanding about where some of the fault lines are here. Could you just sort of prioritize if you were us where you would go first, second and third . I think first and foremost is what you and the chairman have identified which is putting teeth into the statute and making sure that the fbi, the National Security divisions believe they have the tools to ensure that people voluntarily comply. It shouldnt be the case that youre found out through google searches or otherwise, told to register and then you register. There are no consequences to registering, why not wait for the knock on the door rather than come up voluntarily and do it . So i think thats first and foremost. Second, obviously, to do that prosecutors and agents need to get the information to see who isnt voluntarily complying and thats where the civil investigative demand comes in and third its the question that has been raised and we talk about in our audit about the impact of the lobbying disclosure act. What we heard over and over again was the exemption in fara for folks who are complying with the lobbying disclosure act has impacted and is a major reason why theres been is substantial drop over the last two decades in the number of filings. The problem we had when we went in to see if that was true is that the department wasnt tracking information and didnt know, in fact, if that was true, it was a supposition but there werent records to show it so i would suggest those are the three areas where we should first and foremost focus. Just to comment. I dont know a time when the United States feels more invaded and by this i mean States Election systems were pierce in and by this i mean 21 state election systems were pierce in this last election we believe by russia and thats a a pretty sovereign interference and interference with our sovereignty. So there are two of us here that serve on the Intelligence Committee so we know some of these things and it seems to me that the time has really come to tighten this act up to know who is in the country, to see that they formally apply, to see if they violate its prosecuted and that it has become a priority for us. Would you agree with that . Absolutely. Gentlemen, do you have a comment to make on what i just said . Senator, thank you for ask what other tools we might require. Im aware of at least two proposals, one that may have been introduced for legislative changes and we are working hard to coordinate views across the administration on those proposals and i too in the Department Look forward to working with congress on this important question. Can you give us the name of the legislation so we can find it . I know senator shaheen has introduced one bill. There is another bill in the house. To be candid, im not sure if it has been introduced publicly so i dont want to exceed my writ and ive heard talk of other potential bills but i know of two were working on right now. Thank you. And well talk with mr. Horowitz and you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator hatch . Welcome to the committee, were happy to have all of you here. I come with one simple message, lets be fair, lets judge both sides of the political divide, both parties by the same standards and there are few things i take more seriously than the allegations of foreign interference in the election. Actually, for foreign influence actually, foreign influence would be an egregious violation of our sovereignty, even the plausible allegation of it can, if left unaddressed, seriously undermine Public Confidence in our institutions. Weve heard pretty serious accusations of foreign influence over the Trump Campaign, whether here in the senate more to the in the senate, or in the media and, frankly many of these allegations have been truly outlandish. Most have been politically motivated and all have been taking their toll. Even the most outrageous accusation repeated often enough will slowly acquire a false ring of truth, especially in todays media environment so to the extent that there is anything to these allegations, republicans are stepping up. There are investigations under way by both the house and the senate Intelligence Committees before the appointment of special counsel by the department of justice, the House Oversight committee was investigating around now the Senate Judiciary committee is investigating. All are controlled by republicans so i dont want to hear anyone complain we arent standing up and doing what is necessary here to get to the bottom of these things. As to todays hearing, a critical part of the investigation in this committee will be the application of the Foreign Agents registration act. Its a critical part of the equation. I want to commend chairman grassley and the Ranking Member as well for holding this hearing and leading the way but i want everyone in the media, the democrats, our constituents and republicans to hear me and hear me clearly. While these allegations may be too serious to ignore, they are also too serious to be left incomplete and too serious to be used for partisan ends. If were going to get to the bottom of this, we need to investigate the whole story. That means looking at more than just foreign influence over the Trump Campaign. It includes looking at serious allegations of foreign influence over the Clinton Campaign and the Democratic National committee as well. After all, if this National Controversy is going to be brought to a legitimate conclusion, we have to treat it as more than just fodder for partisan gamesmanship and more than a headlinegrabbing attack on the president. We need to explore both sides of the story. According to the Committee Staff report and as numerous reports in the media have revealed, there are serious questions about whether foreign actors wanted to hurt not help the Trump Campaign and there are serious questions about whether foreign actors wanted to help not hurt the Clinton Campaign. Many suspect that foreign actors wanted to help Neither Campaign but they wanted to hurt our electoral process as a whole by sowing chaos and confusion so there are question this is committee needs answered. Im pleased that the Trump Campaign individuals have agreed to be interviewed but it doesnt end with them. Fusion gps, for example, the Opposition Research firm, has a lot of questions to answer. The Democratic National committee has questions to answer and the Clinton Campaign has questions to answer so in conclusion we have heard democrats level grave often outlandish accusations at the Trump Administration and family. Weve seen the media pursue it relentlessly but weve heard far less about the rest of the story. Mr. Chairman i applaud you and the Ranking Member for scheduling this hearing and i implore my democratic colleagues in the media to join the Judiciary Committee to get to the bottom of this. We must ensure that these Investigations Center with an opportunity protect our institutions not merely as an excuse to attack our political opponents. Our constituents deserve better than theyve gotten and we can usa today we can start by fixing the today and doing what ought to be done in this particular area so i want to thank you three gentlemen for appearing with us as well and just say i hope we can be fair in these matters and treat the Trump Administration as fairly as we want our personal interests to be treated. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator hatch, appreciate your remarks, Senate Senator whitehouse . Gentlemen, welcome, i will try to move through my material quickly to obey the chairmans injunction that we move along. First, do any of you have any doubt whatsoever that russia interfered in our president ial election . None. Ok. Just to be clear, let me just i only know what ive read in the newspaper, we are not involved. Understand that because youre the ig. Yeah. So the Foreign Agent act youon registration will all agree, i hope, has as its purpose to identify Foreign Agents seeking to influence u. S. Government policies, correct . Correct, yes . Yeah. Is that an important purpose . How important a purpose and in very brief words. Very important, senator. Agreed. Agree. Can Foreign Agents seeking to influence u. S. Government policies use Shell Corporations to obscure their identities . Senator, i can certainly conceive of situation wheres agents acting here for foreign principals could use other firms or measures to hietd connection to the principal. And the use of nontransparent corporate prus forms, does that help or hinder your ability to investigate foreign influence in u. S. Government policies . It would be part of the challenge i referred to earlier, senator, of the difficulty in proving direction or control to the ultimate principal. So Greater Transparency as to who is behind a Shell Corporation would be an advantage to Law Enforcement . I think so, senator, yes. Similarly, can could Foreign Agents use anonymous political contributions, say, through 501 c 4 s or through identity laundering devices like donors trouft donors trust to obscure who was making the political contribution . Senator, im not so much an expert in Campaign Finance or contributions. What youve said sounds right to me, but i dont want to mislead you that i have any particular expertise in the matter. Lets put it this way. Way. Lets put it this if your purpose is to identify foreign influence being brought to bear on our government and election money is pouring in and you dont know who is actually behind it, that creates an avenue for foreign influence to influence our government, correct . That sounds right to me, senator. Can business relationships be used and indeed, is it not well send it that russia tries to use business relationships to facilitate or as cover for foreign influence operation . Ill defer to the fbi to speak to russia specifically. I know that one of the challenges, senator, that we face is that theres often an economic or commercial cast to the activity here. But, in fact, the Foreign Government may be the principal beneficiary or the activity may not be private or nonpolitical in nature and thus, i registration. And its established through both the kremlin handbook report by the sif and the Kremlin Trojan horses by Atlantic Council that russia actually uses business relationship to corrupt and to influence people in other countries where theyre seeking influence, correct . Youre familiar with that . Im familiar with both reports and in my experience. That is true. So in an investigation into a Foreign Agents effort to influence u. S. Policy, being able to understand business relationships could be vital to understanding the influence scheme, correct . Absolutely. And in that effort, are an individuals tax returns potentially very significant, indeed often obvious investigative material . Of financial records pertaining to any of the individuals or entities involved. Including tax returns. Including tax returns which are so widely pursued and , inal investigation widely pursued in criminal investigations, theres actually a whole section on the u. S. Attorneys manual devoted to the simple process for investigators getting access to tax returns, correct . Yes. Im not an expert on tax returns, but they can be of investigative value. Thank you very much. My time has expired. Senator cornyn. Thank you, mr. Chairman for holding this very important hearing and i hope some of our democratic colleagues have objected to the continuation of this hearing beyond two hours will reconsider and withdraw that objection because what were doing here is simply too important to the security of our country. Mr. Prestep, thank you for making what i think say really important point. We tend to focus on the trees instead of the forest and here, of course, the immediate concern is about russian involvement in our elections. But they will use a range of activities both overt and covert to undermine us in a variety of ways. And of course for now were just talking about the Foreign Agents registration act, which would be more of an overt means ever overt means of doing so. By fear that violations are happening around this time all the time, meaning Foreign Governments are attempting to exert influence over u. S. Policy and we simply dont know about it. I experienced this recently many my work on the justice against sponsors of terrorism act which say law that gave americans tools to fight terrorism and bring justice to victims that had the overwhelming support of congress notwithstanding the veto of president obama. Opponents of the bill warned that any number of consequences would occur with our relationship to saudi arabia which was not named in the bill but of course none of those have resulted. But even though they were wrong, the debate was a real one and the kind that ought to accompany any bill. But along with healthy debate, the kingdom of saudi arabia reportedly undertook a cloaked campaign to gut the legislation and involve ghost written letters and ghost written legislation, involve threats to american companies, it involved as of october 2016, saudi arabia paying american lobbyists and Public Relation firms to undermine or overturn the legislation. They paid them 1. 3 million each month to fight against the right of american victims of terrorism to sue Terror Financing nations. But the worst part of this campaign was the use of veterans to persuade members of congress. According to press reports, agents of the saudi government recruited American Veterans, flew them to washington, wined them and dined them and then put them up in fancy hotels and provided them with false information to provide to members of congress. They didnt tell these american heroes that who was sponsoring them and who they were serving and not only did these agents apparently violate , they putolate fara our American Veterans at legal risk. Veterans waited the organizers concealed the sponsor ship of their ship and a number of firms ra untilfile under fa outraged veterans and press reports revealed theirs activities. This kind of conduct should gall every member of the senate and it proves that other countries will go to great length to undermine the United States government. Unfortunately they can do so unchecked and with little threat of punishment and that must change. Gentlemen, id like to ask you when the lobbying disclosure act was enaktded in there was a corresponding drop in Foreign Agents registration act. Current law allows an individual who represents a foreign individual or commercial entity but not a Foreign Government or Political Party to register under this lobbying disclosure act instead of the Foreign Agent registration act. And of course from are instances where companies are either or informally controlled by Foreign Governments. We can think of a number of them. And theres an open question of the level of government control of any company in china, for example, which is all subservient subordinate to the communist party and the government of china. I would ask each of to you comment, should the lobbying disclosure act be amended so that all foreign commercial entities would likewise fall under the agent registration act. How do we manned will the fact that many Foreign Agents use state owned or stateaffiliated enterprises to conduct their for policy. Should we think about fara in that light as well . How long is the company or enablers search willing to find climate interested in avoiding sarah . Fara . I know there are a number of questions but id be interested in your brief comments given the considerations of time . Senator, ill be a succinct as possible. Repealing what we hope to have correlated demonstrator views on that question later. Thetwo things from number of fara administrations drop shortly after the lda was passed. At the time, the department expressed the view that that might happen, that digs and should should work a different way, that maybe you would be exempt from the lda but not fara. Faced the challenges we is that the Companies May not be controlled or at least noit on paper by the government. They may in fact be a wellconnected corporate enterprise not under the direction or control of Foreign Government but whose interests overlap and who under our regs are doing work, a principal beneficiary for whom is the Foreign Government. Those folks are still supposed to register so we searched the database and find those registrants and find out if it is really the government or Political Party, but its a challenge for us. Thank you. Thank you mr. Chairman, thank you to you and senator feinstein for this hearing and while its disappointing that some of our witnesses are not here today, its important to move forward in a bipartisan way and im going to focus on the issues at hand here. Mr. Hickey, i am cosponsor of Bipartisan Legislation of Foreign Agents registration modernization and enforce meant act to give federal prosecutors a civil and investigative demand authority they need to investigate foreign entities in helping sure they follow the law. They could make them turn over relevant documents before initiate a civil or criminal proceeding and i understand that obtaining this authority has been a priority for the Justice Departments National Security division. You can explain why this type of authority would be so helpful to prosecutors . Thank you, senator. As i mentioned earlier, im not in a position to call for any particular legislative change today. I simply dont have authorization do that. But as i think youve noted, twice in the past i think, waund aicht, the federal government has proposed civ thwart for nsd for exactly that purpose. And so while i wont advocate one way or the other today, ill simply point out that that authority would create a middle ground between resorting to a criminal subpoena which you wouldnt necessarily have the basis to do or be in the right position to do, and the voluntary letter of inquiry that we rely heavily on now. Ok. Thank you. And then question or more detailed question on russian tv. We know our intelligence answer our toes is agencies have found that russia tried to interfere in our election. In january the office of the director of National Intelligence released a report documenting some of the ways they tried do this, including through news outlets and they say that russia rt america was explicitly set up to avoid the Foreign Agents registration act because its registered as a nonprofit instead of a government affiliate. Can one of, you mr. Hickey, mr. Prestep, you can elaborate on why rt is not currently registered under fara . [inaudible] senator, irrelevant probably shouldnt comment on any particular individuals or entities, but it triekz me that when Congress Passed fara or amended it recently, maybe in the s this is when this chaked or the s, it deliberately carved out u. S. Owned media organizations. Was it was very precise about that. What that tells me as a prosecutor is that that intended to capture potentially others or not u. S. Zbloend or not. Im familiar with the reporting youve referred to, and im familiar with that provision of the statute. Very good. Well, it would be good if we could pursue that line, if, in fact, the statute says that, that theyve carved out a u. S. Owned from foreign own and it might not just be russia it could be another government as well. Do you think this is just to the panel whoever wants to take this one. Do you think that the fara requirements in current law adequately reflect recent technological advanceors would technologicals advanceors would other standards up dating the hour rule for facebook and updating the 48 hour rule for facebook and twitter help the fara do its work for effectively . I know you cant comment on exact legislation but are there tools out there that could be helpful to you . Thank you, senator. I think the internet does present a challenge for us because the statute is limited to individuals acting within the United States. I know as early as the attorney as early as 1940, the thin then attorney general issued an opinion if you mail materials into the United States even if youre not here youre acting within the United States. So i see the challenge that the internet is both a technical one, but also a question of jurisdiction. Even if youre quote unquote subject to fara because youre acting here, how will we reach the agent who is physically located in another country . I see that as a significant challenge. Do you want to add anything, mr. Prestep to any of my questions . No. I just think mr. Hickeys exactly right and thats the true challenge. And im not certain how you legislate that. Ok. Anything . No, i think the internet presents some new challenges and thinking that has to occur in the hour rule and other requirements. It just seems like we may need to update this law in lieft everything that weve seen given another election is around the corner. Everyone in america wants to have their vote count and that means not having influence from other entities. So i want to thank you very much. Thank you, senator klobuchar. Now senator lindsey graham. Thank you. Id like to add my compliments to you and the Ranking Member for conduct a very organized way forward in terms of dealing with the threats we face as a nation and changing our laws consistent with those threats. I am too disappointed that we a twohour rule, something thats important, two hearings i know have been canceled. We cant agree on healthcare but we should be able to agree that this is important. So heres the deal. Aipac, are you familiar with aipac . American Israel Political Action Committee . Ive heard of it, sir yes. They come up here in droves lobbying congress do things in their view good for the u. S. israel relationship. I know they have a lot of contacts in israel. Should somebody like that be a Foreign Agent . Sir, its probably not appropriate for me to comment on a particular entity, by think but i think you have hit on something very important to us which is right now we rely principally on public reports for the basis to send voluntary letters of inquiry. I would love to receive for information in whatever form anyone can give it to me about whats occurring behind closed doors. So we are able to take steps to investigate if appropriate. I am not suggesting aipac is doing anything wrong, quite the contrary. Theyre a group of americans who banded together to maximize their influence to speak about something important to them that involves a foreign ally. So i think the aipic is a good thing and thats not my concern because theyre very transparent, they have conventions and we all know how the games played there so i just want to make sure that lobbying on behalf of a Foreign Government or u. S. Relationship with a Foreign Governments not a bad thing as long as do you it right. And i have some friends of mine who represent Foreign Countries that come into my office all the time talking about the countrys view of whatever were doing, nothing wrong with that as long as youre upfront. An example of what would bother me, general flynn who i admire his service to our country but he said that we should extradite mr. Ger woman, the guy that erdogan hates so much. I didnt know at the time he was receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars from a group that was representing turkey. Thats the kind of thing we want to get a hold of, is that correct . We did advise general flynn that we believed he had a registration obligation, sir. But that kind of conduct is what were all worried about. Or may have. May have. So lets get back to what senator klobuchar was talking about. Youve got russian bots that are actively pushing fake news and news helpful to one candidate, although to the others into our political system. So you got all these russians sitting around making up crap and sending bad articles to key districts to influence outcomes of an election. This time it may be against the democratic party, next time it may be against the republican party, next week it could be iran or north korea, it goes on and on. What happens or what power do we have if somebody in the United States coordinates with them, some platform or website begins to coordinate with content that originates outside the country being disseminated in a political fashion within the country . If someone coordinates with them or is an ally, what are status would they have . What status would they have . Id have to look at all the facts and circumstances of of a particular case. Fara reaches conduct when the person acting within the United States is doing so under the direction or control or as the agent of the principal. In this circumstance, the generated content is coming outside the country. Its being delivered in the country for a political purpose, and any American Organization within the country that cloouds thatat polluted them, should weith them have laws that deal with that. Under fara i think one question youd have to ask is whether that person here is acting as the agent or under the direction or control of those foreign individuals. If they are, should they thats one of the principal fillers that youre an agent acting under the direction or control. Our laws give good enough answer to my question or should we change our laws to deal with whats the reality of the future . Senator, i dont feel prepared to answer that question today, im sorry. Thank you. Senator franken and then senator kennedy. Thank you, mr. Chairman, thank you, gentlemen, for testifying. In january, the director of National Intelligence released a classified report telling interference in last years election report states unequivocally, quote, russian president Vladimir Putin ordered and influenced campaign in aimed at the u. S. President ial election. Mr. Hickey and mr. Prestep, youre here today representing the Justice Departments National Security division and the fbis Counterintelligence Division. Have you read the declassified intelligence assessment of the russian operation . I have, senator. Thank you. I have as well. Good. Have either of you read the classified version of the report . I have. Ok. Thank you. Im not sure, sir. Ok. Do you have any reason to doubt the intelligence communitys assessment that the russians interfered in last years president ial election . No, sir. No, sir. Well, for some reason President Trump remains unwilling to accept the fact that russia interfered in our election. We saw this during the campaign when he dismissed reports of russian meddling by suggesting that the hacking could have been carried out by, quote, somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds. But now six months into his presidency we continue to see that reluctance to acknowledge the truth. Just last week the newly minted White House Communications director Anthony Scaramucci appeared on cnn and he said this, quote, you know, somebody said to me yesterday, i wont tell you who, that if the russians actually hacked this situation and spilled out those emails, and you would never have seen it. You would never have had any evidence of them, meaning, that theyre super confident in their deception skills and hacking. The host of the show asked just who that somebody was. And mr. Scaramucci admitted that it was President Trump who explained that if the russians had, quote, hacked the situation that the United States would have not have evidence of that hacking because of the russians superior intelligence capabilities. Do either of you know where President Trump that that idea . No, sir. No, sir. Well, ill tell you. President trump believes that to be true because Vladimir Putin told him so. New york times later confirmed that putin was the source of that information. The times reported that President Trump emerged from his meeting with putin to, quote, tell his aides that the russian president had offered that moscows cyber operators are so good at covert Computer Network operations that if they had dipped into the dncs system they would not have been caught, unquote. Now let that sink for a home. The president of the United States is taking the word of Vladimir Putin over that of our nations intelligence agencies which demonstrates a stunning lack of confidence in the men and women who put their lives on the line to keep us safe. And the president of the United States then goes on to repeat that russian lie to the american scaramuccio mr. Effectively spreading russias misinformation for them. Mr. Prestep, you have experience in counterintelligence, when then fbi director comey apeefrd before the house Intelligence Committee in march, he described the russian operation and his, quote, unusually loud. He said, quote, its almost as if they didnt care that we knew. Their loudness in a way would be counting on us to amplify it by telling the American People what we saw and freaking people out about how the russians might be undermining our elections successfully, unquote. Do you agree with former director comeys assessment was the russian operation unusually loud . Yes. Mr. Hickey, youve managed the National Security divisions efforts to fight cyber attacks. Do you agree with director comeys assessment, former director comeys assessment . In my position as a lawyer, sir, i would defer to director comey on that question. Let me just i can have a few seconds . So it seems fair to say that not only did russia interfere in last years election, but that russia likely trying to fly under the radar, contrary to what putin may have told President Trump. It would seem russia actually wanted americans to find out about its efforts, that our knowledge of their operation and the unease it continues to cause to cause us was, in fact, central to undermining americans faith in democracy. Thank you for your indulgence. Senator kennedy. Chairman, are we going to get do mr. Brouder today. We will stop here at 11 00 at 11 30 as the rules require and then mr. Brouder will be here tomorrow at 9 00. Ok. Well recess the hearing until tomorrow. And thats because of the twohour rule . Yes. Id like to join senator graham and senator cornyn. Id like to know who invoked the 48 hour rule. Its essential their right but i think they owe it to this committee and to these witness, some of whom traveled a Long Distance to explain their reasoning. And he came from overseas to be here. And has to stay now an extra day. Hes willing to stay and i dont know why the twohour rule was invoked, but if it was invoked so we couldnt talk to mr. Brouder, its it can happen tomorrow at 9 00. So we can overcome were from that is the rationale. It mr. Brouders here id like to apologize. I think he will be in the anteroom if you want to apologize. I will do that. Mr. Hickey, according to media reports, mr. Sidney blumenthal lobby former secretary clinton to show support. He was asking secretary clinton to show support for a Prime Minister candidate in the country of georgia, according to media reports, mr. Blumenthal allegedly pass along personal letters to be secretary clinton from the leader of Opposition Party and transmitted a memo allegedly to her from an acquaintance by the name of mr. John kornblum. The letter urged secretary clinton to support the same Opposition Party in the georgia election. According to media reports, and i guess could you check as a matter of fact, either mr. Blumenthal nor mr. Kornblum have registered under fara and id like to know why doj has not required them to register. Thank you, senator. Unfortunately consistent with Longstanding Department of Justice Policy i cant confirm or deny or comment on particular individuals or entities or investigations or potential investigations. Ok. You ever heard of a group called fusion gps . I have, sir. I think its cofounder is mr. Glen simpson. I have seen that in media reports, sir. Has he registered under the statute fara . I have not searched for his name, sir, so sitting here today i dont know for sure. I think the answer is no but, again, im not sure. Was anybody at the department of justice searched for his name . I dont know that, sir. Is somebody looking into that . I cant comment on that, sir. General horowitz, why i think you testified that two decades ago enforcement of fara became less of a priority. Why was that . Well, what we saw was about two decades ago a significant dropoff in the number of filings. And one event was the lobbying disclosure act. But actually preceding that by two years as the imposition for imposition of fees for filing. But if you look at our report and the chart that weve done and the graphic that weve included in the report, it shows the cliff actually starts occurring in 1993 after fees were imposed. One of the challenges we had when we went in and did our audit was trying to determine what was the impact of the lobbying disclosure act. And the problem we had was there really had never been an assessment done by the department and the folks administering the program to determine if that was, in fact, the cause as opposed to what do you think . You have studied this issue, general. What do you think the cost was . It looks tok a combination both, potentially, as well as we talked about earlier the need to have a strong enforcement policy and a mechanism to ensure that folks understand that are real consequences to failing to register. And i think one of the concerns our team had and i had in look doings is in 50 years seven criminal cases, five of which result in convictions and three of which involve fara charges over 50 year period, doesnt necessarily send a message out there that theres real keep on this legislation. Id like to you think on this too to let it sink in all three of you, what you allow is whats going to continue. Now, i understand that the Justice Department cant talk about investigations and i respect that. And i think its a good rule. But im general, i hope that you will continue to monitor this, because its clear that theres been a failing and i dont know what metric we have to understand whether its been fixed. We will do that. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator, if you use your five minutes then ive got to inform senator cruz you might only have two or three minutes two or three minutes. And then well twohour rule we have to adjourn. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Despite conducting significant lobbying on behalf of foreign interests, Donald Trumps former National Security adviser Michael Flynn and former Campaign Manager Paul Manafort only filed after their activities were publicly disclosed. Doesnt that undermine the purpose of fara . Good morning, senator. Unfortunately i cant comment on particular cases. What i will say is we do our level best to identify conduct through every source we can and act on it by sending either a voluntary letter of inquiry or opening a case. So regardless of whether you can comment on particulars, im getting to the delay in registering under fara and im wondering whether whether a delay in registering at some point can amount to a willful violation of fara . I think thats a good question, senator. The statute makes clear that if you register late that does not preclude a prosecution and there may be a number of facts that raise an inference of willfulness. Certainly the goal of the statute is to ensure that agents register immediately, essentially, upon becoming agents or principals or i think its within ten days. Thats what the statute demands. So perhaps we need to strength than part of the law because i think at some point you mentioned there needs to be a showing of willfulness and to show a violation of fara and i would say that substantively at some point i delay in registration amounts to a willful violation. During the Republican Convention the Trump Campaign insisted on a change to the National Republican platform making u. S. Policy on ukraine much more favorable to the russian government. At that time Paul Manafort was the Trump Campaign chair and at that time he had been paid 17. 1 million in unreported payments from the party of rhee gents, the pro russia party and ukraine. He had also had extensive business dealings. The ukraine and with well paid russian ala guard yet he did not register until later this year and did not disclose this work. Wasnt this the activity on behalf of a Foreign Government that fara registration is meant to disclose . Im sorry, senator, i dont think i can answer that question. We have advised were very have previously advised mr. Manafort we believe had he an abgation to register and is he registered. I think that answers my question. Would this raise any red flags for you or your investigators, mr. Prestep . Im sorry, i cant comment on that. You cant even comment on whether or not an action lets just take out names. It somebody does this, wouldnt this raise red flags for you . Im sorry, i just dont want to comment on any individuals or entities or fact patterns associated in any way with potential or current investigations. Would it be fair to say that this kind of fact pattern wheres theres nondisclosure, nonregistration this is not necessarily unusual and so this happens, we have a concern in this committee that there be the enforcement of fara and whatever may arise out of a violation of fara. So regardless of whether you can comment or not, i would hope that the fbi and this kind of circumstance would look into what is going on. Theres been some discussion about the what happens with the lda and the fact that theres been such a decrease in registrations under fara after lda. Whether mr. G hickey, you said that the doj searches the lda databases for people who may not have appropriately registered, so my question for mr. Prestep is does the fbi search the fara databases for potential violations of law . Not that i know of, maam. Why wouldnt you . We depend on the department of justice to, in effect, oversee this area. Its, as mr. Hickey i believe mentioned previously, this is a regulatory or disclosure statute, it is not a criminal statute and department of justice is response the mainly responsible for the administration of it. Well, its just we understand that fara is merely a disclosure law and its the fbi that gets into any criminal activity. And since fara requires a lot more disclosure than the lda, one would think and hope that the fbi would pursue looking at the fara databases. So its an editorial comment. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Let me echo the concerns a number of folks have raised that i think its unfortunate that the democratic, angry resistance has extended to the level of obstructing nominees across the board and now shutting down Committee Hearings as this one will be shut down in two minutes. I think that is unfortunate. You have senators not willing to do the jobs they were elected to do. In the minute and a half we have, mr. Horowitz, your office conduct and extensive review of the National Security division. This included a review of the enforcement of fara or perhaps as more accurately described the nonenforcement of it. In your opinion, is nonenforcement a result of a conscious decision or a lack of coordination within the department of justice . What we saw as a lack of coordination and that concerned us and the fact that there were a handful of cases over a 50 year period raised concerns for us about what message that was sending to the community out there that should be registering voluntarily. Now, if its a lack of coordination, where is the process breaking down . Well, we saw very different opinions among ausas and agents and the nsd over what it meant to handle these cases. And i think as was just mentioned, the National Security division as the attorneys responsible for the regulatory scheme really have to take the lead on coming up with an enforcement strategy, coordinating with the fbi to move forward to make sure that folks are registering voluntarily and if not registering voluntarily, that there are cases and investigations that result from that. Now, the farra registration unit focuses on voluntary compliance and yet there are u. S. Attorney offices bringing criminal cases whats the differential . Theyre seeing the failures to file are looking at these cases and believe there are willful failures to file and that was, again, a poirchtnt of again, a point of dispute. With the oversight that was going on with the division of those cases they need to at the nsd approve those cases in order for them to be brought. We heard from and we heard from ausas concerns about that. How that was going on reviews of evidence, concerns about jury appeal that prosecutors thought they were in the best position to determine based on their districts and what they knew about their district and that was an area of concern for us as that there would be that kindive that kind of a dispute between prosecutors in the field and folks at main justice. Thank you. And i think the committees time has now expired. The twohour rule goes into effect right now. I thank all of you for participating and the hearing will be recessed tomorrow and well hear from mr. Start out with mr. Brouder. It will be 9 00 tomorrow if i did make it clear. Yeah. If i didnt make it clear. Yeah. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] the Judiciary Committee meets again today to look at the Foreign Agents rich and at. The hearing includes testimony from the justice Department Officials. Watch for live coverage at nine clock a. M. Eastern on cspan3 and cspan. Org or listen with the cspan radio app. Cspans washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up this morning, washington journal is live on capitol hill discussing the Health Care Bill and the growing opioid crisis. Our guests are rob portman, sheldon whitehouse, chris sununu, maggie hassan, hal rogers and edward markey. He sure to watch cspans washington journal, live it 7 00 eastern this morning. Join the discussion. Book, kurt newman on his healing children a surgeon story from the frontier of medicine. It is like it is about cutting medicaid and the nih and doing all of these things were on the cusp of such terrific discoveries. When you think about half of it half of the beneficiaries are children. Why did we want to do that . We are not doing that to the elderly on medicare. We ought to double down and really put more into our children. Watch the entire Program Saturday at 7 00 a. M. Eastern. Sunday at 7 p. M. Eastern, David Goodhart on his book going the road to somewhere. The contempt, emails saying after brexit, you have professor saying why did we give people the vote . For more this we schedule, go to book tv. Org. For more of this weekend schedule, go to book tv. Org. Cspan where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Now some of todays debate on the minibus spending bill on the defense and energy programs. The chair introduces the bill. The gentleman from new jersey. Mr. Frelinghuysen i recognize myself for six minutes. The chair the gentleman is recognized. Mr. Frelinghuysen i rise to present an amendment to h. R. 3219 to make america secure appropriations act. This legislative package provides critical