Office and will fight the charges. On the next washington journal, we will be joined by writers from the daily beast. First a conversation with editor and chief, john avlon. And then Nancy Youssef will have a discussion on National Security issues. Then later, Jackie Kucinich talks about the religious Freedom Debate and what it means for the republican party. The washington journal is live every morning on cspan and he can join the conversation with your calls and comments on facebook and twitter. Here are some featured programs for the holiday weekend, on cspan former state senator from texas, wendy davis. And on easter sunday, the golfing legend jack nickless receives the congressional gold medal for his contributions to the game and community service. On cspan two, on afterwards cornell west on the radical political thinking of Martin Luther king jr. And sunday on new and, on indepth, a live conversation with a reporter from the Washington Post, ronald kessler. He has written 20 books, including escape from the cia. And on American History tv saturday at 8 00 p. M. , lectures in history, Charles Calhoun on the obstacles faced by ulysses s. Grant during his presidency. And sunday afternoon, on american artifacts, schroeder takes us on a tour of appomattox courthouse in virginia. Freelance journalist james fully was beheaded in august 2014 becoming the First American killed by that group. Next a panel on journalist hostages including the parents of james foley who tried to save their son. Also, Terry Anderson who was held hostage in lebanon. This is 90 minutes. Journalism has changed enormously over the last two decades, it was once the printing printing press, and now moves at the speed of light and cell phones have the whole world in the palm of our hands. Yet, that relentless stream of news has not made the world more comprehensible, speed and technology are one thing context is something else. For me, and for my colleagues in the school of journalism serious journalism the idea of journalism that we share with students begins with a simple idea. It is about being there. Not just to get the story, but to help illuminate places. It is about people crossing frontiers and hope to bring light to stories of people who live in the world cost dr. Pleases. The worlds darker places. But this comes at a price, and it is that reality that brings us together. John and diane foley and Terry Anderson can attest firsthand to this brutal truth. We are grateful to them for coming to share these experiences and thoughts about this hard new world. Today, journalists are seen as a target, not only by terrorist organizations and heart tells, but by oppressive governments. Sense the early 1990s, more than 1100 journalists have been killed, or kidnapped, or driven into exile. It includes local reporters, who lived and worked in these places includes a growing number of freelancers, americans and other westerners, who have enlisted to cover faraway conflict zones. The center for global journalism was launched to try and bring greater focus to challenges being faced by journalists anymore perilous world. Working with academic departments across campus and leveraging the work of our Journalism School faculty, not only a along the borders but in the middle east and afghanistan, we hope to explore programs and initiatives to preserve and extend the free and independent global reporting that is essential to the democratic society. What can we all do as professionals, educators advocates, to support journalists who are out there now . How can we train and equip them and keep them as safe as possible . Leading this discussion, rosenbloom, a faculty member of the Journalism School. Mmort is a former correspondent for the Associated Press. He is the author of several books on reporting and over his career has filed stories out of 200 different countries, and number of which he likes to point out, no longer exist. As morton knows, the essential qualities of a good correspondent has not changed over time. Now as then it is about curiosity, intelligence, importantly it is about empathy and more than ever, these days it is about courage. The numbers are shocking, but tell only part of the story. Behind the statistics are victims that do not know what will happen next, and families that can only hope and pray for Something Better than the worst. In some regions, the death toll for journalist rises with an outbreak of war. It happened in South East Asia in the 1960s and 1970s. In other places, such as a nearby border, the danger is ever present. Since 1992, 32 journalists have been killed in mexico. Until the 1980s, most victims were casualties of war. Journalist were seen as observers, not part of the news, and were seldom targeted. Then, in 1985, Terry Anderson, the Associated Press in beirut, was muscled into a green mercedes. Seven years past the four he could meet his daughter who was born while he was chained to a wall. One capture told him, dont worry this is political. When anderson asked his guard gave him a new red bible. The Associated Press executives worked with u. S. Officials to get him released. The situation changed after 9 11 , journalists were targeted for what they wrote, what they represented. In 2002, wall street journal reporter daniel pearl was executed as he pursued al qaeda activity in pakistan. In the year since, in the years since, the victims have increased. The threat can be seen in france, near the normandy beaches. Any tree shaded park, the monument to reporters, 20 eight columns have been engraved since world war ii, with more than 2000 names. Men and women who have fallen on battlefields, assassinate, or killed in accidents while covering the news. Since 2001, many of the names have been those of journalist hired in their own societies to get stories that outsiders cannot reach. Other names are those of freelancers, who ventured from the United States and other nations to cover news in the most dangerous areas, without the continuing support of a large news organization. Now, with so many freelancers, there people such as david mccraw are working to confront the circumstances faced by journalists and families in perilous situations. This year, a fresh name symbolizes the spirit and kurds, not only a freelance journalist, but also the family and friends who support them. James foley ventured into syria to help make sense of conflict that was shaping the world. He was executed on camera. His message of the importance of news was clear. At the reporter must be there to tell the story. His parents now work tirelessly to make sure that an easily distracted world hears this message. His death is no reason to turn away from the danger. On the contrary, in america and other nations, people must support journalists who choose to go into dangerous places on the publics behalf. Thank you all for coming. We have some Serious Business to discuss this evening. In fact, what can be more important than our eyes and ears in the most careless places. Careless places. Just some background. About two seconds after i met james foley in france, i knew that this meeting had to happen. People seldom get so warm and wonderful, as you will see in a moment. But their courage and strength is beyond any words i can come up with. Among those white columns, you just saw, we mourn also a young french reporter killed on the border in the Central African republic. Diane put aside her own grief to comfort mother. The message is wise and unwavering, we need those brave journalists out there in the ugliest parts of the world to reflect realities that we almost understand. We have to realize what too many learned the hard way, the prices high, not only for them but friends and families at home. The pulleys have started a foundation, we will talk about it tonight. The message to mind my old friend Terry Anderson, a colleague from the ap, for seven years i wore a bracelet with his name on it, awaiting his release. When he emerged from the lions den, none of us could believe his towering spirit, his strength of spirit. Today, he teaches young people exactly what the foleys taught us, reporters must be out there. For today, it is though personal for terry. Salome, that cute little kid that we saw, she is a reporter covering stories and lebanon like her father. I asked terry last night, if he was worried about her. Duh. Happily enough, some gifted people look carelessly to help journalists in trouble. Among them is david mccraw. The New York Times fifth amendment lawyer that was a nice joke, maybe the Second Amendment lawyer in arizona, but it is the first. [laughter] but i underscored the first amendment. He is also with us this evening. We are extremely grateful to have this panel. Actually the foleys are here because they are tired of shoveling snow in new hampshire. It is freezing. David accepted the invitation without a second hesitation. Thank you for coming. When i left tucson, from here, in the 1960s to get mixed up in faraway mayhem, you had to be pretty unlucky or unaware to get into serious trouble. My first post was the congo, covering a mercenary war, with people who believed that their magic amulets turned blank and into water. And the pentagon before they tried to limit our access, and therefore increase ager, we could go anywhere. In asia, africa, the middle east, latin america, we journalists were observers, not part of the stories. Pretty much, across the board combatants left us alone so we could tell their side. All of that has changed today. We are no longer a definable press corps with correspondents that no one another and bosses back home watching our backs. Freelance independent and local reporters hired at low wages operate on their own. Freelance means, no wages, you get what you sell. The governments arrest them, militias hold them hostage gangs with no political purpose kidnapped and ransom them. That is our topic for tonight. What now . Keep in mind, because people tend to forget this, we are talking about journalists. If we as journalists ask our government to protect us, we are asking them to control us. It is a serious conundrum because that is not what we are, we are not representatives of anybodys government, at the same time, u. S. Citizens elect a government to do their business. And one Job Description is helping americans stay alive. We are not a policy pond for any administration. So let me start with terry. Terry, if you could give us a brief rundown of how the u. S. Government first worked with hostages back in the early 1980s and then talk about the Associated Press, what changed how do you see it evolving . Terry the American Government used to look at hostage taking as a criminal enterprise. Just as you do in crimes that involve hostages, what is the first that you do, you bring in a negotiator. That doesnt mean you will give them anything or you will reward them, but you will talk. By the mid1980s, by 1985 when i was taken, the government was the Reagan Administration was insisting that they would not negotiate with terrorists. As we all know, those of us who can remember, the world negotiating they they were negotiating with terrorists as a political matter until they became public and then they stopped. Up until that point, they were talking to families of hostages. My sister, whom many of you may remember, she was a front person for a group of families and it was very outspoken in her advocacy and pressure on the government to get something done. The man in the white house, the marine lieutenant colonel, and she went to him frequently. And then all of a sudden, it stopped. It got cut off. Now, president reagan said we do not negotiate with terrorists and we mean it, it will not happen. But the terrorists did not believe it for quite a wild. But, more importantly, the people in the government that we that our families had been going to for information and help they took refusal as refusal to negotiate as dont talk to anybody, including families. They cut everybody off. That has too much continued since then and i think that mr. And mrs. Foley can testify that that is the way that it goes. It would tell the families, keep quiet, we are doing everything we can, but in fact, it was an excuse to do nothing. Which was a real problem. Mort thank you terry. That is sounding familiar. What has been your experience, you and john . Mrs. Foley this was his second capture, for jim. He had been in libya, which in retrospect was so brief, but at least theyre his capture had been witnessed by a New York Times reporter, and we knew that he was held by the government and thus the state Department Took the lead. Barely in that case clearly in that case, we were in touch with the state department. Actually, it was another person that got him out, nevertheless the state department was in touch with us. The second time was very different. We had no idea who had taken jim. He did not report back to his colleagues on thanksgiving day and we received a call from another freelancer who had been awaiting his return, that jim did not show up. That they had been stopped at one point and captured. So we did not know what to do. It was surreal that this would happen again. Jim was freelance, so we had no Organization Behind him to come and take care of things, take charge. So we were frantic, really. Fbi eventually contacted us and told us that they would take the lead, because this is a kidnap of an american citizen outside of the country. We thought that was good, we needed help. That is how it started. Mr. Foley almost immediately the fbi convinced us to go into silence. The captors in hindsight that is one of my biggest regrets, media silence helped to entities, the fbi and the other is the captors. The fbi had no pressure to go forward with his situation and to the captors wanted silence for obvious reasons. So this went on and after about six weeks we were hearing nothing, absolutely nothing. We were frantic. We were able to secure services of a Security Team through the global post and we began our search but for one year we really didnt know where he was whether he was alive. Mrs. F foley what was most difficult, we really had it no person in the government to go to. We had no one who was accountable for jim, if you will, or any others who were kidnapped. I started a series of trips to washington, going to the state department and the fbi, just to remind them that jim was still missing. We didnt know if he was alive or not, and such. We were very disappointed. We had no access to anyone with any power or any information. And we were not allowed to be part of the effort to get our son out. I know that we can do better, as families. At many points, i was a policy at the way that we were treated in some incidences. Mr. Foley i think it is important, that for a year and a half, we were told that jims situation was the highest priority, that Everything Possible was being done, but they could tell is nothing because it was classified. Mort what did they tell you about thinking about ransom on it your own . Mr. Foley there was a person mrs. Foley from the security council. Mr. Foley we got the families together, he was very blunt. He said the same thing, we are not going after him, we are not going to negotiate and number three, we will not pay ransom, and number four, if you try to collect money you will be prosecuted or could there would be highly likely you would be prosecuted. At that point, we realized we were on our own. But that was two years later. We said, what the heck. I would rather be in jail here then jimmy over there. We began to raise money in terms of pledges, we do not want to handle the money. It is very difficult to collect money from somebody, or ask for donations, who might wind up in jail. We struggled with that, but we had some fine individuals who were going to go to battle with us. Mort as it turns out, there is a new Public Information person at the department of the state who is one of us. He was a tremendous investigator at the New York Times it in a los angeles, as it happens i worked with him just after 9 11 we were both in pakistan. We were trying to get across the border and doug is a really good reporter. Going over, he was working on committee and now he is at the state department, so my question is david, this came up the other day at the museum in washington and his answer was look, these are american citizens. We will do the best we can. This is being studied. Do something come from that, david . David first of all, i want to thank everyone who set this up this is an honor for me to be with these brave people. My connection to this topic came about because in 2008, 1 of our reporters was a kidnapped and i became the person who was designated to run the response to that and work with his family and the government. And a that was followed by another kidnapping and then the detention of four reporters and libya. As a result of all that, i was it was such an unpleasant experience, i committed a lot of time to how can we avoid avoid being in that position in the first place. I spent time with working with people on security. And the government question, it is clear from those expenses that the government should do better. Diane and john and i talked earlier, their experience as a family actually is not that different from what we experience, even though we had access. The New York Times, a powerful institution, we know people and we can get people to come to the phone, but still the feel the failure of the government was extraordinary. Many people work in government and are helpful, it and they have been extremely helpful and we appreciate that. But the fbi as lead agency makes no sense. The fbi does not have the capacity to solve crimes committed in syria afghanistan and it should not be the lead agency. I will give you an example. On things giving day, in 2008 the taliban called our bureau in cabo to negotiate for david, who was being held. The fbi was assisting us, very helpfully, by coaching our reporters on how to handle those calls. The call came, the fbi could not get marine clearance to leave the embassy to go to the borough to help our people. Leave it or not, the line waiting period waiting on the line. This was a lost opportunity. It made us realize what the fbi could not do, and when it comes to getting intelligence, i am not sure that they are getting that level of cooperation. When something happens like what happened to jim, it is important that that information is front and center and acted upon. Mort until 2003, was the head guy and they were much more flexible. They would actually look the other way if someone wanted to pay ransom, because it was not the governments business. I am sorry if im answering your question. David well, i have to say that my experience was a different. The fbi official called me, after david was kidnapped, and he said look, we are not having this conversation, but the weight of people get out of the kidnapping is that somebody pays a ransom. Dont be an idiot. And the conversation never happened. That was, that style i was shocked to hear what you went because there was some practicality. Mort in france, when you spent a lot of time with reporters who had been taken and gotten away for one reason or another spanish and french reporters what has been your experience in the difference between europe and here . Diane i found that it was a huge difference and that was rather shocking. I was anxious to go there because it took fbi months to get clearance. They could even get the government to allow the french or the spanish the government the french or the spanish to get access. Of course i tried. So i went, as a mother. But what i was impressed with in paris was that i had the privilege of going to talk to people in the Foreign Ministry but i also had an opportunity to go to a meeting of the local Media Advocacy Group that had representatives from schools of journalism print tv, radio and hostage families. Twice a month they would sit together. These were leading media people. They would vet a lot of the rumors families were hearing. We came to find that the journalists often knew more than the fbi. They really knew, but they didnt know who to share it with or how to share it. But in france, they were sharing it with the family, vetting rumors, advising families that maybe this one wasnt to true that what is good. That one is good. At the same time they didnt let the public forget that people were kidnapped. The tv would have bylines every night about how many days it had been since they were missing. They had pictures of the journalists on every town hall. They really caused a huge reaction in the public. The third thing they did was they had highlevel access to the government so they were able to share rumors that they felt had some validity. I was jealous. We needed some help. We were all alone, jim being a freelancer didnt have anyone behind him. We had a couple of good people who stepped up. John i think this raises a number of issues. Number one, in france and spain journalist are valued. They are almost heroes is not heroes. Almost heroes, if not heroes. Why is that . They bring truth back home so that french and Spanish Citizens can know what is going on in the world. It also made us think what could be done if this were happening in the United States. There are many, many journalists , freelance or otherwise. What we saw more see on a regular basis is that we are a hot item when we are a fresh story but after the story dissipates you couldnt catch a cold. We think that in order for journalism to go to the next level in this country, journalists have to respect to themselves and organize in a way that they are willing to help one another. I think that is part of the way that freelance and other journalists can protect one another. Sharing information, assessing risks, and really pushing the powers that be to make changes and get these people home. One of the things i regret most is the media silence. We didnt have the ability we gave up the ability to force. Obviously, we are a democracy and votes count, pressure counts. We didnt apply enough pressure. The only pressure that would have been meaningful is that pressure associated with an organized media who wanted to accomplish something good for one of their own. Mort thanks john. Let me ask a question for everyone who has taken the trouble to come here. Lets take a greatly. And assume this is a Representative Democracy with people who spend as much time looking at the constitution as the super bowl lineup and the oscar list, and the people who we elect represent what we want, and the people in washington response to citizens. In washington respond to citizens. Lets go down the line, starting with terry. What is it that citizens can and should do to make all this better . Terry understand what it is we do. What the process is, what reporters are out there for. What the process is, and respect what we do. Most people who are not involved in journalism do not understand how it works. They do not understand how we get information, how we that information, how we get our stories. How we write them, edit them. It is a pretty rigorous process. That stuff you see in the media and certainly in mainline news organizations, is pretty dam reliable. Most of the reporters i know are doing it not for the money, or the fame, or the thrill. Even those that go out into danger repeatedly are not there for the adrenaline rush. They are there because they truly believe it is important. That it is important for them to find and tell the truth as best they can about what is happening in the world. And that you need to know those things. That is why they go into places like syria or other dangerous places. Journalism has been changing. We all know that. More and more, the people that do that are independent journalists. Fewer and fewer are mainline regular correspondence with an Organization Behind them regular correspondents with an Organization Behind them. Luckily, the New York Times retains a large stable of foreign correspondents. The ap does. Thats about it. That makes it more dangerous for them. They can only earn what they get paid and the pay levels are pretty miserable. They dont have the money to buy a 600 flex jacket or take 600 flak jacket or take a personal safety course. And they dont have anybody when they get in trouble, like i did, too get them out. I am encouraged by our industrys move to accept the moral responsibility for the embedded journalists that they buy stories from. Mort a group of organizations kind of spearheaded by david has put together a list of things that journalists ought to know before they get out there and things we ought to know the fourweek we ought to know back home. One of the main ones was that news organizations that use the services of journalists should be responsible for them. There will be questions. If you dont mind, we would like you to write them down. If you have a question and write it down, we will have plenty of time for that. David let me say two things. A journalist recently wrote a book about all these issues called the new censorship. This is censorship. This is a civil rights and human rights issue. This is not only about journalists being killed, kidnapped, harmed. It is about you and all of us not getting information we are entitled to. Censorship is not really about the speakers rights but about the listeners rights. I think we need to raise awareness. We need to bring lawsuits and stop impunity in places where those lawsuits wont work. To show people that it is wrong for governments to turn their back on their own journalists if not punish those that harm journalist. I think awareness is the first piece that is very important. Think about it as your right to receive information, your right to know what is going on, not merely our right to publish it. The second thing, which goes to the great work that the foleys are doing, is that there needs to be better resources for independent journalists. If you think about the whole process, to go in, get a story face harm. Throughout the process, they need resources. The training they receive and the kids they carry the kit they carry and the response if they run into a problem is the obligation we all should share in. Organizations like my own feel very strongly that freelance journalists working for us should be treated the same way as our employees. It is also broader than that because more and more, as terry was saying, all of us will be depending on independent journalists who are willing to take risks not supported by formal structures and established organizations. Those people he resources to make sure they are trained and to make sure they have resources in place to support them well they are out getting stories support them while they are out getting stories. Mort which leads us to diane and johns message. I dont mean to speak for them, but i happen to know the main thrust of it. Correspondents at one point we were really our own family out there. It is really not the case anymore even if we have real jobs. Our families are the structures we have back home. Tillis also, diane and john tell us also, diane and john you can answer the question to. O. But one thing that strikes me is thinking about putting together a foundation and jims name and honor to help other families and to help people who dont have that kind of strength or even those who do. Diane i certainly agree very much with everything you have said. Certainly the raising of awareness. As american citizens, we have to be aware of what is being taken from us when these journalists are killed and thus others dont want to go to those areas. The other thing is the whole issue of more and more freelancers in dangerous parts of the world. Because of how journalism has changed. And there are many freelance journalists now. Thankfully, there are Good Companies left. The times really takes seriously their relationship with freelancers but there are far more that do not at all and couldnt care less. One thing that the foundation is trying to do is certainly to work with groups that exist like the committee to protect journalists, reporters without borders, and other organizations, to help freelancers commit to Safety Practices that they can do, but also to call on new organizations to protect them if they will take stories from the. Jim believed in a free press. He was passionate about it. We are also trying to call on the American Media to find ways that they can collaborate, such as what was done recently at Columbia University when several groups come together in a tiny step, but a beginning step, with what i believe was handed out as you came in, the guidelines. The historic part of it was that we had people who are normally competitors, various news organizations, signing on together. In that way, it was wonderful and very exciting. We hope the foundation can promote more of that plus working with advocating for american hostages and their families. There are many issues, obviously, with freelancers. At columbia we were talking with folks at the dart center. That is something that is not as expensive as some of the survival courses that run in the range of 3000 but more of the ability for these independent journalists to learn how to assess risk, which Many Organizations can do for them. But when you are out on your own, it is hard. John we became very much involved with an Organization Called hostage u. K. It is a Nongovernmental Organization built and designed to support hostage families and returned hostages. They are able to link to the government and share information, but more important they walk families through this whole process. When jim was captured, our First Response was, where do we go next . If you have a group of people who have been through all this you dont have to go through everything. We can pair people with we call the responders. Rachel briggs, the director is planning to come here and help set things up. We think that, when that in fact happens, we will have such a better support mechanism. It is a great stress and we looking forward to moving down that direction. Mort let me go back for just a second to this ransom business. The u. S. Governments position is that this funds the bad guys, sets a bad president sets a bad precedent. But when you are talking about the money, leaving behind all the stuff we paid for in iraq and everywhere else, ransoms are just a drop in the bucket. Every so often, there will be some exchange for a guy in afghanistan. What about ransoms . David i am in the fortunate position of never having to decide. Our journalists who were kidnapped in 2009 where the subject of a british raid in afghanistan. Steve is a u. K. Citizen and steve was rescued and soldutltan was killed in the raid. Military raids are very lethal, many times to the person being rescued. I dont think there is an easy answer on ransom and the New York Times never had a policy about that. We have been fortunate to never have to face that. But when i think of it as an individual and talking to many families over the past six or seven years who have been involved in these kind of situations, it seems to me that the idea that somehow paying ransom encourages journalists to take more risks is flawed. I dont think anybody wants to be kidnapped, and i dont think french journalists go out and think they can do what they want because the government will pay a ransom. I am also skeptical of the idea that not paying ransom deters kidnappers, that it creates a disincentive. The theory is that kidnappers will not take americans or brits because those countries technically dont allow ransom. I just dont think they think of it that way. I think they take westerners and they sort out the citizenship later. I think the harder issue is the one that more mentioned the one that mort mentioned, which is the funding. You would always avoid paying if you could, but if it was my son you would find a way. It is very hard to make that into a Public Policy statement that this is bad for the future of my country in some hypothetical or theoretical way. The point that i will come back to is that i am not sure we are sending a consistent message to the terrorists and to the kidnappers. There was an exchange of prisoners for private bergdahl. There was an americangerman citizen in somalia for whom a ransom was paid and the United States looked the other way. I think that was last year. There was ransom paid in the philippines which didnt work out so well in 2002. Unfortunately, those people didnt make it out. The lack of consistency, i think, undercuts this notion that we are drawing this hardline. This is the last thing i will say on this and then others can jump in because they know it better than i do. I think the idea of telling families that they shouldnt even talk to the hostage takers is really, really bad advice. It is advice that runs counter to every interest. Getting intelligence, humanizing the victim, developing a relationship in hopes that something is going to happen. If you dont talk to them, those things dont happen. Diane thats what we wanted. Just our intelligence and fbi to negotiate, to talk to them, find out what they wanted. We were left as families to negotiate. We didnt know what we were doing, we had no idea. And we were on our own. We can do better than that. We have incredible resources. They didnt want to talk to them. We really feel that angered the captors and just made everything worse, because they did reach out to us twice trying to negotiate with us. But they wanted to negotiate with our government. John i think that is truly the case. So the legal aspect of this whole thing is as follows. Diane and i got the opinion of several excellent lawyers in washington and our questions to them were, what happens if we try to rescue our son to the ransom process . The answers were interesting. Number one, the Justice Department has never prosecuted a family that, under duress, has tried to bring their love ones home. Their loved ones home. Number two, the fbi said they would help us negotiate. They said to write these letters to describe how much we miss them. But as diane pointed out, this just angered the captors. In france and other countries those ransom notes went to the went through the government. I think they assumed the same would happen here which you did. Which it didnt. Diane it would have been helpful to know if the government wasnt going to help us, tell us. In the beginning, that we cannot do this. Be honest about what they were able to do and what they were willing to do. Unfortunately, that was just not the case. Mort at the very least, designate someone from the government to be a late to be a liaison. Does the brits do that . Diane yes, and the french have a unit for that. Mort lets take questions from the floor. David john and diane put their finger on two things here. One is the governments willingness to negotiate. But if you are not going to do that, why there is a need for support so that at least the families have appropriate support, training, and assistance. When our people were taken in libya and this again shows the difference between having a major Organization Behind you. I had a coach sit in the office with me while i talked to libyans, the state department, and the families. When i hang up, he said, here is what you did that was really good, heres what you did that wasnt so hot, tomorrow we will do better. It makes a huge difference to have somebody with expertise in doing that. If you are going to be left to do it by yourself, you need that kind of support. Terry i think there should be a difference between, we are not going to pay ransom as a government, and we are not going to talk to anybody including the families, and certainly, we are not going to talk to the kidnappers. I think the government interpretation that we are not going to negotiate with kidnappers so were not going to talk to anybody is a copout so they wont have to pay a penalty. That is why the advice to families not to go public, not to make a fuss, is designed. That may be cynical, but that is what i believe. I am hoping that the current review of the governments hostage policy is going to find some space there that will allow them to do some of the things that mr. And mrs. Foley has suggested that will allow them to help families and will allow some kind of contact to go on. As i said before, if it is a hostage situation, the first thing you do is bring in a negotiator. It doesnt mean youre going to pay anything, it doesnt mean you are going to give the guys an airplane, it means youre going to talk. We have never seen if theres some way to resolve the problem with the Islamic State because we havent tried. We dont know if there is any room on their part because we havent tried. I think that is a serious mistake and a moral failure on the part of the government. David one point here that i think highlights the problem. Our people, New York Times people, in turkey and syria were getting information about kidnappings. As a policy, we were collecting that and passing it on to the families. Whichever family was relevant to. It is a very strange thing because i didnt feel that i can go to the fbi, and didnt want to go to the fbi, because i didnt think it would go to the families. But when i went directly to the families, they were often very happy to have it, but what were they going to do with the information . That lack of support once you get it, how do you operate on it . Whether it is information about where people are being held or anything like that. So we passed it on to the families, but there was always this empty feeling that it was not going to be effectively worked on because of the failure of the government to assist. John i think that is the success of the british philosophy, having diplomats that are there to negotiate. They dont pay ransom and their system is similar but at least families such as ours would have confidence in their effort. They would have confidence in the fact that they are working to get information. And that there was a plan. So i agree with david. Mort i have the envelopes. Here is a question. What happens when you guys talk to your congressional representatives. Who are really your voice representatives who are really your voice . John you want the honest answer . Nothing. Diane we never talked to our congressman, they didnt reach out at all. But our two senators did. Senator should senator shaheen really helped us get into the u. N. , the state department, and helped us know who to talk to. In the beginning she was very helpful in that regard. But that is about it. John everybody we talked to patronize dud us. To get jimi dont think there was a real commitment to get jim home. Shaheen was successful but i think they are impotent. They cant drive the state department or the executive branch to get things done. Diane we had one point went to talk to senator mccain, and he was good to give us an audience, but nothing came of it. Mort to questions that are similar. One, what was jims biggest goal is a journalist . How do i keep his legacy alive . Do you want to keep his legacy alive . And what would you say to parents who have children who are journalists and do this . Diane jim was very interested in the human rights side. He was very concerned about people that had no voice, as are most journalists, the ones who really are passionate to giving a voice to the people they talk to. One of the biggest deals is to continue that. Part of it is, you know, american hostages dont have a voice. A lot of freelancers dont. And a lot of poor kids in inner cities. Those are three areas that jim was concerned about that we are trying to give more of a voice to. Mort here is a question i will try to resist answering myself and having a stroke. Why is it worth the risk and cost risk in cost for journalists to go into dangerous places . Is the quality of information so much better than that obtained from other methods . Terry the question about what you say to children who want to do this. What i said to my daughter when she said she wanted to be a journalist, i worry about her. She does things who that are risky. She doesnt cover active war but she goes into places that are dangerous. What do i tell her . I tell her pretty much the same thing i tell my students. If this is really what you want to do, if you think this is important enough, then make sure that you are ready for it. Make sure you are prepared for it. Make sure you know how to assess and had to deal with danger. And how to deal with danger. It is very hard to play the professor with your daughter, by the way. But she does listen and we talk about the things she is doing. She recognizes that i have a lot of experience in this and she accepts some things and other things she doesnt. Could you have covered beirut from cairo or new york . Terry absolutely not. The question is do you want this information . Do you think you need this . I think that it is important and you need to know it. I think it is important enough that i have, in fact, risked my life to cover stories that i thought were important enough. As i said before, there are always considered risks. I am not a fool. I know that if i die, i will not be able to file the story anyway. And the process is, every step of the way, not just when i sit in my office. But when i get in the car and get out of the car every step of the way i am waiting i am weighing, is this worth it . If i am going to go there and someone will shoot at me, i Better Believe there is something important over there. That is how journalists operate. They are not stupid. It is a risky profession. So as being a policeman, so as being a fireman. There are risky professions and there are people that do them because they think it is important enough to take the risks. I am passionate about the importance of journalists and journalism and the principles and role that we play in any democratic system. We are central. You cant have a Free Society Without a free press. They go together. Mort here is one that follows right into this. The question is, why is there such resistance to the common sense practice of getting training and going armed . This came up during airaq. Some of the New York Times people and some others said that was a different situation. But i can tell you, i have never i can sort of handle a gun but not very well but i have never come across a situation that i can shoot my way out of as a correspondent. And i will tell you another thing. I have come across a lot of situations that had i been packing, i would not be here tonight. Terry i spent six years in the marine corps, i am a combat vet. I have never believed that i ever could have used a gun to get me out of any trouble at all. And i know perfectly well that if i had a gun and try to use it when i was kidnapped i would be dead. Even seven years in prison is a little better than that. The only real protection we have in the field is the belief by the people that we are talking to that we are not part of the conflict. When you pack a gun you are part of the conflict. And it will get you killed dead. Mort this is another problem and perhaps we should talk about this. A lot of people think that reporters are out there for the fun of it. There are thrill seekers out there. Weve come across some real crazies that make it real dangerous for people. The kind of mixed the idea of soldier of fortune, adventurer journalists. People going out there are young people with a lot of courage, a little bit of backing, and a lot of drive and some training. But they need more. We really need to this is not a pitch, this is a reality. Kids need to be prepared when they go out for so many reasons. It used to be, the way it would work was some old guy had been out for a long time and then you would be adding fresh energy and new tools, and the tools always changed. But the old guy or woman learn things the hard way. There are a lot of things in this profession that you can only learn by making mistakes. Anybody want to comment on that . Terry remember, by the way that many people out there dont have any experience in this situation. How many combat vets do you know that are now journalists . There are a couple, but not many. Mort if you are a person of color from the u. S. , using the survival in captivity is greater . Terry i dont think that has any relevance at all. Particularly when you are talking about the islamic world which has a much more a much better approach to people of color then we often do. I dont begin makes any difference whether you are a christian or a muslim. It is not a religious question. These people dont think in those terms. John i would like to go back to the previous question and certainly terry i would welcome your comment. But if there wasnt such a competitive nature to get the story, to get it first, etc. , i think young freelance journalists would be more willing to spend some time figuring out how safe this is. Should we be doing this . Should we be in groups . And can we use some of the older people as mentors . I think mentoring can certainly be very effective. Terry i have to say, is a once very aggressive and competitive Young Journalist for the ap there is a surprising amount of Cooperation Among foreign correspondents. The competition is generally restricted to certain situations when you have a story to yourself and you dont want anyone else to get it or you are first on the scene. Most of the time, International Journalists know that they are better off helping each other and they do that quite frequently. I advise my young students, when they go to a country, the first thing they need to do is check in with press corps, go to the ap office. They will cooperate. Of course, if you are directly competing on a story they will take your contacts. But it is surprising that foreign journalists are cooperative. Mort a press corps, and that used to actually be a word, works like a pack of coyotes. Everyone knows how coyotes works. One of them gets out ahead in spots the prey and takes the first bite, and all the rest kind of swarm around. But the time it is done, everything is picked clean. Today, because of the way the system works, we are out there working like hyenas. It is just the way things work. One grabs what one can because one has to make a living by selling stuff. The rest of all of us, we dont really get the effect of reporters being out there. And this is something that we in answer to that one question about why we cant do it Long Distance this is something about foreign correspondents that we all have to understand. If they are not there, we are not there. How are you going to run a world . Picture yourself at the top of a mountain trying to come down in a snowstorm with your eyes closed. You will fall off the road. At some point, you dont know what is going to happen. We need foreign correspondents out there and the ones we have are some brave young people like jim foley, we have some people working for news organizations like the New York Times, for all we criticize it, it still has people out there. We cant really expect people to im giving a speech. Terry, there was a report that you read 300 to 400 books a year. Terry . All my life all my life. I read very quickly. I can member a lot of the books i can remember a lot of the books. The use to bring us books in used paperbacks. They would bring a box of books and dump it. It could be anything. I polished my french on french crime novels. One of the few i didnt read was how to breastfeed your baby. I thought that would be a little cooperation. The only books we ever turned back to them were Barbara Cartland novels. Mort diane and john, could you tell us more about the funded about the foundation and what you hope to accomplish and need . Diane i guess the reason we started was because we dont want jim to have died in vain. He would have wanted something good to come out of this horrific experience. I feel that so strongly, and we do as parents. We are just trying to look at some of the areas where there are gaps. One of them seems to be, there is no one advocating for american hostages in our country that we encountered. And we did some meet people and we did meet some good people. But no organizations, if you will. That is one of our priorities. We are trying to partner with hostage u. K. If we cant learn from them and adapted somehow to our country which isnt easy. Our country is a lot bigger and different, and we know that. That is why we need support for that, because it is a counting experience is a daunting experience. We need other powerful entities within our own country to think this is an important issue. Certainly, that is one of the areas we feel there is a huge gap. The other one is, we are really hoping the American Media 10 collaborate. Media can collaborate. Jim felt that media did as a whole, work together. We really would love to see if we couldnt do more as American Media. I realize its complex and its very competitive here in our country. It is not a simple thing. But it is something i think jim would have wanted to see. Some of the hostages mentioned to us once, this certainly was a big hostage issue. There were 18 western hostages, all held together, and nobody knew about it. A lot of the journalists who about it, but the public didnt know. In their hopeful moments, some of the European Free hostages would say, wouldnt this be cool if all of our countries were really working together to get us out . This would be just awesome. A chance for all of us to come together with our allies. It couldnt have been further from the truth. Every country was doing it in its own way. Im sorry, i am getting off track. We are hoping we can do some of the things jim would have wanted to do. Mort there is a question here along those lines. It seems like the kidnappers and terrorists assume one government would do the same thing as another. It seems the u. S. Government needs to get on the same page as the european once . What does everybody think . Terry i think the u. S. Government seriously needs to revise its policies or lack of policies on how they handle hostage incidents. I hope that in this review they are doing, that they are talking to hostage families and former hostages and getting some real input from them. I fear there is a bunch of people sitting around the table at the nsc or state department feeding each other their opinions. I dont know. I hope you guys, with your movement, managed to persuade them to listen to people like u. K. Hostage and other people. Im not very confident in my diane we the media to help and we need the American Public to wants that. We get nasty letters saying, what was your fullest son doing out there . A lot of americans dont agree. And that is ok. I think the American Public needs to weigh in and become aware about how you feel about it. David all these issues become difficult in terms of the media blackout. When david rohde was kidnapped the New York Times decided to ask other news organizations not to cover it in the time he was taken to the time he escaped. It was not covered. That was a very hard decision for us. We are in the business of communicating and disclosing things, and here we were calling al jazeera and the Washington Post and everyone else, saying please dont cover it even know you know about it. Even though you know about it. It is a very tough calculation. In the first couple days, going public is probably always a bad idea because you dont know what your person has told the captors. You dont know if they have said they are a canadian aid worker. The last thing you want is the New York Times say their person was taken and undercut that. The second thing you hear from professionals in this area is that you lose control of it. If you go public, you cant stop, especially in todays world, you cant stop what gets said. You may make it worse for your son or your colleague. With all that said, it does really concern me that the silence takes the government off the hook. That there is not political push. The other thing about the silence, and i saw this first hand because when people were taken in libya we were very public about it, is that when you go Public People pop up who can help you that you maybe havent thought about. People who have connections. People start calling me and saying, my wife is a lobbyist for the government of libya. I would like to talk to her. Terry i would like to add one thing to that, something that hasnt been mentioned. That is the point of view of the guy who sitting in the basement chained to the wall who is sitting in the basement chained to the wall. You fear being forgotten. Over the seven years, at the beginning we didnt get much news. A little bit here and there. And later, they would allow us access to a radio every once in a while. To here that this organization was having to hear that this organization was having a prayer vigil or the disorganization was coming to beirut to talk, or that your family was sending a message to you, was important. Two noto not here for months on end was devastating. So there was a purpose for publicly talking about your hostage. It does have positive effects. Believe me, i know. Mort but think that a little bit further. Lets take that a little bit further. You were there for seven years. We didnt know. You are chained to a wall for seven years you didnt know what was happening next. You had the strength to go through and get out. You are a good reporter in your time, you are a good teacher now. Would you do it again . Terry oh, mort. I cant tell you how many times people have after that asked me that. I certainly would not go out on saturday morning to be kidnapped. But when you are in that situation you have a lot of time to do nothing but poke around in your head and figure out some things, and think about your life. You think about all the bad things, by the way. But of course, i thought about i didnt know i was going to be alive. If i didnt survive, was it worth it . And i had spent my life in a productive way as a journalist. That is a hard thing for a journalist to weigh. For all those years, i cant point to anybody, or any problem, and say i help solve that. It doesnt work that way most of the time. Mort taken from the approach that you sent to my students today. Take it from the approach that you said to my students today. Terry i am just as passionate today as i ever was. I believe it is important. I believe those years that i spent covering mostly violence by the way, because that was the kind of journalist that i was was an important way to spend my life. I think it was important to tell the stories and tell you what was happening in those places. Despite the fact that you cant see any result most of the time you still have to believe that telling the truth is a good in itself. And i believe that. Not only do i think it was a worthwhile career, but it was also extremely exciting, very demanding, and i cant think of a better job i could have had been being chief middle east correspondent for the ap. Sure, i would do that all over again if i could. [applause] mort thank you, everybody. [applause] coming up tonight on cspan, Homeland Security chair Michael Mccaul on the role in the federal government in protecting cyberspace. That the Brookings Institution hosted discuss and on the state of the hosts a discussion on the state of the iran nuclear talks. Then a discussion on the United States preparedness for chemical and biological threats. On the next washington journal, we will be joined from writers from the daily beast website. First, a conversation with editorinchief john avlon. Then the senior National Security correspondent, nancy yousif will discuss the Iran Nuclear Negotiations and other National Security challenges. Later, Jackie Kucinich talks about the religious Freedom Debate and what it means for the republican party. Washington journal is live every morning on cspan. The National Council on u. S. Arab relations hosted a discussion on the violence and instability in yemen and the future of the country. See this live at 10 a. M. Eastern, here on cspan. This weekend, the cspan cities tour has partnered with Cox Communications to learn about also, oklahoma. He was very much more than that. He was born in 1912 in