About the book at the International Spy museum for about an hour and a half. I will be brief, but as you know, as we follow the media even in these days, the rising concern about the young men going to the middle east in search of jihad or adventure and finding themselves caught up in extremism and violence and in many cases converting either to extremist causes or becoming disillusi disillusioned and resulting in them becoming a problem when they return to the west. There was a 1949 book called the god that failed that was about people that embraced c embraced commune ism and tonights story is a story of conversion and empany and conversion again and then loss of faith. I think you will find it fascinatin fascinating. The story is one that was developed initially by our then historian dr. Mark stout and i will introduce them and he will introduce our speakers. Mark developed this story having encountered the individual of interest in of all things, now pay attention, particularly you older people on facebook. Anything can come out of facebook rather it is Academic Research or discoveries from the spy museum. It will involve a complicated, involved case involving the equities of the cia. I made the choice not to recuse byself, i have to be the Museum Director but to give mark and his associates the lead and let them develop the case and let the case take them where it may. That is what mark and his successor dr. Hoyton have done. Tonights case is going to be presented and mark will introduce the speakers and handle the q a. Mike was our historian and now directs the Master Degree Program and the Global Securities and Intelligence Program at John Hopkins School of arts and science. He had 15 years in the federal government as an analyst and has degrees from stanford and harvard and coauthored three books and published a number of articles. Help me welcome mark stout. Mark . Well, thank you very much. I am be brief. I am honored here to introduce morten storm, paul cruickshank, and tim lister for the book lamp of agent storm my life inside al qaeda and the cia which is just coming out in the United States launch it is a remarkable book. If you look on the back you will see this from me. A few words about the authors starting with tim. Tim joined the bbc out of college and worked in the middle east for a number of years and in 1996 moved to cnn and spent a number of years there with cnn international. He specialized, not exclusively though, in terrorism. In 2011 he was at an obscure village and i am told he was in eastern ukraine. Paul cruickshank is a cnn terrorist analyst and investigative reporter. His website said he is out of new york but from what i can tell he roams the world as much as tim. He has degrees from cambridge and john hopkins university. He is a great reporter and did great scholarly work on alqaeda. I just sent off a book chapter that draws in part in his work. It is a real pleasure to be with him this evening. And last and certainly not least is morten storm who you will be seeing on this screen. Morten is coming from an undisclosed location in the uk. Morten you can come on out. Here we go. I wont say too much there we are but i will not say much about mortens study but he contributed to our struggle against violent jihadism and the alqaeda network. I have been study violent jihadist for 20 years since the russians invaded in 1994 and i will say i am only aware of two other cases even slightly, and i empicize slightly, like morten storm at all. The first is collins who was an american who converted to islam and became radical and went to fight along the arab jihad and deradicalized when he heard about people he thought understood his faith in egypt were blowing up women and children. He wrote a book in 2002 called my jihad. The other is omar samari. He got involved with jihadist extremist and thought it would be a good idea to embezzle money from them, realized how adaption dangerous that was and went to the france government and worked with them. In the late 1990s he fell out with his insiders and wrote a book later on. Both of these individuals did their work in the to be here. The palm tree isnt necessarily real behind behind him. But mortens story is exceptional. We have never seen a story like this with somebody who has gone so deep inside the world of alqaeda and come back to tell the tale not in a courtroom or guantanamo bay. But someone who has been at the tip of the sphere in the important targeting operations since 9 11. So this journey has been so rewarding and we have learned so much from him. He has exceptional insight and experiences and one hell of a story to tell. Yeah, as we worked with morten we found out his rolodex was something else. He knew so many people over the last 1015 years all over the world. He was everywhere and met all of these people and then there came the moment where he decided he could not deal with it anymore. There were all sorts of reasons we will get into later on. It wasnt an instant moment. He is not alone in that. We will try to work through the story with some of the incredible volume of physical evidence he brought to us rather it was recordings, emails, visa stamps and everything that helps substantiate his account of what happened to him. He visited denmark, talked to his family, talked to a lot of people that knew him and built a picture and it is a complicated picture of a guy who was into all kinds of bad stuff as a kid. Isnt that right, morten . You are so kind. He was a baker and boozer and found islam at the age of 21 on the coast of denmark. He was the true jihadist for nearly ten years before he decided in about 2006 it wasnt for him anymore because it moved beyond where he was comfortable. But his contacts were gold dust for the western Intelligence Agency and he was introduced to the cia. You said his mentor from 2006, a friend and mentor and those connections we had became interesting to the cia and other western intelligence services. He began the campaign of terrorism in the west inspiring lone wolf attacks. He was behind the underware b b bombing and others. Underwear it was about the betrayal that was necessary were our security. Morten, introduce yourself, buddy. Hi, guys. Thank you very much for coming. Thank you for the International Spy museum, maxed out, paul and tim you guys are super stars. Sorry for all of the trouble i have given you for two years. I want to say thank you for the management, the whole team and anyone involved in this. Thank you so much. And what can i say . I never imagined to be in a position where i can sit and talk to an audience. I am delighted. I hope once you leave the room you will have information that benefits you and an understanding into how radical islamics think and also a chance for everyone to learn about life. Thank you. Thank you, morten. And tim, if we can go to the first my life is in danger. People around me obviously have been taking very good care of my safety for me and my family. I want to also thank gavin from eden intelligence. He is here and he is sitting next to me. There are good people around me who are taking care of me. Thank you so much. What we are going to do is play a video and just to set the scene here. This is may 2005. This is grove square in london outside the u. S. Embassy. There has been controversy because there is talk about the koran being decimated and there is angry in the street. He came down with a proalqaeda support that is very radical. You will see morten appear on screen on the righthand side of the video. [inaudible video playing] kill, kill, the usa, the crowd is chanting as they burn the american flag. How did you get to this point . How did you grow so angry . I am laughing but shaking my head in the disbelief that i did this. What drove me to that stage was frustrati frustration. As a devoted muslim, i looked at the world differently and the muslim countries led me and these people to hate the west and the western views and the western democracy on where it lies. What you saw there was sincerity from my heart. I am looking at these people and at that time it was empty barrels but many are active now and fighting in syria. Many in the video are fighting with isis in syria and iraq and perhaps involved with atrocities there and the mindset carried them in that trajectory. Your story ended up differently obviously. Lets go back in your story. You group in denmark, right . You had a troubled childhood, got involved in biker gangs. Tell us how you discovered islam. What happened there . I felt that i was a young troubled young man with no direction in my life. I didnt have parents to guide me throughout difficult times or good times. So the only thing i felt a necessity to was to belong to something. And the Motorcycle Club was one of the reasons or things you can belong to. I then later discovered that it wasnt what i wanted to do with my life. I was i started to question life as if there wasnt life after death. And i went into i had a lot of muslim friends and went into the Danish Library in my town where i picked up the life story of the profit mohammed. I wanted to know about the culture and religion of many of my friends. But that book attracted me so much. It was so appealing to me. It just spoke to me. And i could not let it out. I could not let it go. Each page i read i needed to complete another one. I ended up staying from the morning to the time they closed in the late afternoon. When i left i was a different person from the time when i entered. And soon after that you end up in the top left hand corner of the screen there. You will see the centers of learning in the arab world right there. Tell us about your experience in yemen as a muslim convert, you converted and decided to embark to yemen. Tell us about that experience and the islam that you were being taught there. That is right. When i converted to islam, i was considering that all muslims have differences, but we were all muslims so it wasnt a big deal. Then i went to yemen and studied there and in it the most intense institution on earth. We had People Living here that were disconnected from the big towns. I was living among 2, 000 students studying the koran, learning arabic and i founded what was to be the fundamentalist version of the religion. You guys were right you preached and everybody else was wrong. You came back to london in 2000 or just before and were part of what was then called the london scene that was a growing radical, culdren there where you met the shoe bomber and others. Men going toward the more jihad mindset. What made them go more towards that mindset, morten . Throughout the studies we came to the conclusion the jihadist is one of the most noble acts you can do as a muslim. If you die in fighting or having the intention while dying you die as a martyr. So the obligation was clear something must be done. And considering the islam countries were all occupied either directly or indirectly by the western regimes who didnt honor the jihad. This was particularly when it came to jihad. Tim, how far did events elsewhere in the late 90s and early 2000s inflame your passions . Where were those events . And the people you were with did you find there was a pattern to their backgrounds . To the sort of people they were . Yes. For the first question as for the conflict zones at that time we had somalia, jihad versus the christians and there was a little bit going on. Just a few years before many friends went to bosnia to fight as well. So the jihad was real. So to most of them there was no motive. Those people who drove them to afghanistan and other places did i answer the question . The sort of people you met what were they like . Obviously i met and came across interesting people. Some of whom have met bin laden in person. Some were going from yemen to afghanistan to meet up with the training camps. One of my friends was a body guard for a high up figure. And when i went to europe i met people at mosques and all over the United Kingdom i met people who were common muslims. At that time, the most radical groups were running the show for the jihadist societies. And just prior to 9 11 he returns to yemen and meets people with close ties to alqaeda. He is in a barber shop on the day of 9 11 and sees the images of the towers coming down. Describe the events of that day and the mosque you went to and what happened next. Describe the atmosphere with the people you were with that day. Is there a picture up there . We dont have. Describe it. What happened was i came back to yemen for my second time and at that time i had an invitation from bin laden two months before and he invited me to go over but i had tho bring my wife and she was pregnant with my first son and i didnt want to leave her or bring her. So i declined coming to afghanistan. And a few months later we had 9 11. I was standing in the barber shop with a friend of mine. The friend had been to new york and we saw one tower falling and he said i have been there. I have been to that place. And i said wow. And then suddenly there was another terrorist. I turned on the radio and america was under attack as rightly stated. We went to the mosque to hear what was going on. This mosque was run by a permanent scholar who was a very political man and still is. I remember he was saying that by the grace of Allah America has been attacked and we expect 50,000 people to be killed and we should all give gratitude to allah. The whole mosque did that. Quite extraordinary to hear that here in the United States. You were swept up in that atmosphere there and then in the weeks that followed obviously there was a plan for the United States to go into afghanistan and george w. Bush made a speech that had a particular affect on you. Can you describe that . Yes, so i never saw the people jumping out of the buildings and all of that. We didnt have tv. We considered the tv to be forbidden so i could only hear what i heard on the radio. I remember bin laden saying it wasnt me. I didnt do it. But this is a permisiable way of lying. So i just didnt know that. What happened was the Bush Administration said this is a crusade against the evil. And he was talk about the taliban and alqaeda. He said you are with us or you are with the terrorist. So george w. Bush didnt leave space for anyone to be in between. And for a devout muslim there was no option. Even though i might have disagr disagr disagreed, which i didnt, but i could not align myself with disbelievers. So there was no choice. But we chose to be on the side with moral support and alqaeda. And just a couple years later you are here in london and protesting, when you turned up to the demonstration you thought the plan was going to be and storm the United States embassy. But there was frustration with some of the leaders that they were talking the talk. You wanted to walk the walk eventually. You in 2006 travelled to yemen where you met with an american cleric who had been interviewed by the fbi and the United States and was mentioned in the 9 11 reports and was living and teaching back in yemens capital. Tell us about pemeeting him and what he was like. I went back to yemen in 2006 with my son with intention of making permanent immigration to the muslim land. As you can see on the radio, my attitude to the west was deep and i understood there was no way i could live in the west. So my only option was to migrate where the muslims were and that was yemen. I was introduced to australia muslim and invited to go up to this house and each lunch and th then i was not that much aware of him because i needed to take all of my lectures in arabic. Once he started talking and i was talking he had this noble way of talking and was very calm. He thought about it, he considered things before he said them and when he said something he referenced the koran and everything he said made sense. It was like wow, then i was quite surprised. We then suggested that we should do weekly study circles where he obviously had to deliver the lectures and they were planned from that meeting. I am sorry. You had study circles and many of the study circle session were in your house. Some of iraqis most famous youtube hits and video tapes are actually first given in your house in a small study circle of a dozen or so westerners, many who gravitated toward leadership roles in alqaeda affiliates around the world. You have this front row seat and became close to him and he became like a mentor figure to you. And tell us about that a little bit. It was all over the muslims in the world. In indonesia and africa even. That is how far he reached from that point and active world leaders. Among the prominent guides of today, who is an american convert on the fbis mostwanted list now, and he is in somalia now. In that group we had many prominent figures. A danish convert who went to somalia and cut the head off of a somalia prisoner. And they were killed in syria for a year and a half. So there were people that were sincere. What was the most attraction of him to all of you . What made his method resinate . What was it about him that drew this following in yeman and obviously around the world . Yemen i think the west muslims saw him as the English Speaking bin laden. I think that is the way they started to see he wasnt a show off. He didnt do it for collateral. So he was a much more devoted he didnt have a really Bad Reputation of being in the other sects so he could not do that character assassination of him. Just after 9 11 he gave this famous interview in which he reputated 9 11 on behalf of muslims when he was close to here. What do you think changed him over the following years . Was it a personal animosity toward the United States . A philosophical inevitablely given the circumstances and invasion of iraq. What changed him so much in such a short time . It was both of them. He had a score to settle with the American Government and believed he was wrongly accused of being tricked into this. He hated americans and the American Government. Secondally, something that was supposed to happen anyway. And that was because of religious studies. He became more religious and devout and engaged and he was focused on the growing. In reality, the obligation of the establishment of the islamic army down in the south of yemen, which according to record, there would be an army of 10,000 soldiers from the south of yemen and that islamic army will take over the world so he believed what he was engaged in at that time was a divine cause that was ordained to him. The next thing that you did after this is you want to go and fight in somalia and participate in some way in the jihad. You go back to denmark, you want to raise money to do this. You see many friends in yemen who are migrating to the jihad in somalia and other places and you want to do the same thing. Talk about that a bit and talk about what happened next. Yeah. So at that time in 2006, the Islamic Union were taking over somalia rapidly. They were kicking out the corrupted tribeal leaders and started to rule somalia with their law. There was a system in somalia for the first time in 16 years and that was a huge sign for us and our new islamic state. For every muslim that believed that we should live amongst muslims and we will be sinful by living among the sinners this was an obligation. Many of my friends travelled directly. One of them got permission from the American Embassy to go from yemen to somalia. He left over there and i stored his furniture and departed. I didnt have money to buy a house in somalia so i worked for a brick laying company. You are about to go, you bought the ticket, oneway ticket to go fight in somalia, you have on official invite. We have the record of that. You are about to go and you gate phone call. Tell us about the phone call and the implication of the phone call for the rest of your life. By that time i was so excited about going to somalia. It was the key to paradise for me. Whatever happened over there was the way it was. If it was supposed to happen; fighting, i would accept that. I said good bye to my children, family and friends and went to the store to buy clothes for friends on the phone and just before that i had a phone call from the danish muslim who said everything is cool here. I just cut the head of one guy. Everybody was so excited about it. They were engaged and excited. I came out of the shop and on the way back i had the second phone call and that was from this year. He told me you cannot come. We left the airport. We just lost the airport. Dont travel. Stay where you are. You will get arrested. And i just couldnt believe it. I was in disbelief. I could not believe there was no way to reach the land of jihad. It was a blow. I felt i was let down by that. You felt led down but you were about to go and participate in jihad which was something you were working toward for many years and all of a sudden the ethopians have taken the airport and you are deflated. You go home with all of the equipment you wanted bring to the group. You threw it in the bedroom, went to the computer, and what did you do on the computer . I did something naughty which was i challenged my faith. I guess i had some issues before and i identify now when i look back at it i see what triggered that. Anyway, i thought why is it that allah would prevent me from doing something he orders and commands us to do in the koran . Why dont he like me when i do everything i can to please him. I am doing everything. And i just couldnt figure it out. I know one of the things i have used as a tool to spread islam in europe is particularly the United Kingdom in the Speakers Corner and it would be one of the debates over christians. I would use the two contradictions in the bible. I questioned myself this time and the contradictions in the koran. I was trying to push myself again. And for that i suddenly discovered thousands of websites with loads of contradictions and that was from the Biggest Surprise because if there was any contradiction in this book it would not be for me. It would be from allah so the koran wasnt manmade. I researched the contradictions and i found out they were generating and for that reason i suddenly looked at the whole world differently. You can give up your faith and maybe your friends but why would you necessarily then have to go approach the Danish Intelligence Service . Why couldnt you fade into the background . What made you turn around and start working for western intelligence . So what happened here was i had a few people of whom were danish nationals. One was the cartoonist that drew the prophet mohammed. The one that triggered the crisis in the world. The second one was a danish politician who is now working in america in a think tank in washington. So these people were people representing and promoting democracy and i could not accept that. Now, i didnt look at them at this very moment. When i decided not to be a muslim anymore, i realized how diluted i was. I could see the same reasons these people were promoting democracy and freedom of speech, i have now chosen not to be a muslim for that very reason i had to be killed. For that very same reason, i needed to be killed. I then realized how evil that agility is and how much difference i can do if i dont say anything and i could continue to fight them. I knew i was in another dilemma because i have kids and if i told them i was not muslim i would no longer see them. So i went to the danish intelligence and asked for a meeting with them. And why dont you take a glass of water. I will setup the meeting. It was within early 2007 and they could not believe it when you called up. One of the top targets of danish intelligence, one of the people on their radar screen, somebody who was in yemen and suspected of associated with alqaeda types over there. He is calling them up and wants and meeting. This was very exciting for danish intelligence. Describe the scene in the hotel room when you have two handlers coming in and trying to recruit you. Describe it. One of the tricks is to be kind and show understanding and toleran tolerance. So these two operation agents method me at the Radison Hotel in the kings suite on the top floor. They were trying to flatter me. Would you like fish or vegetarian food because there is no halal here. I looked at them and said i want something with pork or bacon and i want to have a beer. They were like they looked and were like what . I said i want bake skwn bacon and beer. I am not a muslim anymore. I want to join you and fight the terrorist. And he stood up and he said i can tell you one thing. There they still not convinced until the food arrived and saw me eating the bacon and drinking that and i said cheers then they knew i was on their side. This was the beginning as your career as a double agent. Someone on the alqaeda side secretly working for western intelligence. A career that involved disrupting a few terrorist plots in the uk, a friendship with the guy in the red cap there the mastermind of the Westgate Mall attack. All sorts of other missions and operations that we lay out in the book. You were going from yemen, to kenya, to indonesia and all around the world for debriefings. An incredible helterskelter life for both the cia and also mi6, danish intelligence doing one for one agency and another for another agency and that is laid out in the book. From the americans point of view, over time one of their top targets became someone they were worried and interested in that was cropping up in the terrorism investigations in the west. The london bombings and other plots and attempts seem to be inspired by this guy. So in the bottom of the slide we have you driving in october 2008 in yemen and you are delivering supplies here. Tell us about that and the internations you had with him. I was going to deliver night vision camera, solar panels and he was asked to send money as well. At that time, was it i dont remember the date. October of 2008. Yeah. So here we at that moment thrix cia was so interested and became more intense in the surveillance. You delivered 5,000 from the cia. How did he respond . It was that intense. This was 2008. It was even that intense that i remember before traveling to that mission the British Government gave me a laptop. When i got in copenhagen the danish authorities took it away and gave me the cia laptop. That was how important it was to be able to lead that mission. What i can say is the money was something he and i were looking forward and collecting money from muslims in europe. But when i paid him the money that was the only test that he had evdone to me. He was sitting in the restaurant there. Do you want to Say Something . No, go ahead. So the delivering this equipment to him and reach the place took 15 hours driving. I had to tell the police i was taking care of myself and going to see a family member. There was all kinds of obstacles. When i reached him, i saw him as a changed person because he could no longer meet up in any of the areas before. This time he was wearing a military jacket and was more looking like bin laden. And he had a body guard. When i saw him with the guns i was a bit worried because we had to go to sit under a tree in the desert so i could show him how to use the satellite and laptop and i was a bit worried because i didnt know, maybe it was over there. What led you to think this is a guy that needs to be killed and taken out . What changed your view from someone that needs to be detained to someone that deserved to be killed even though he is an american citizen. There is no difference in American National or danish or arab national. If they are terrorist, they are terrorist. It doesnt matter their nati nationality. So the my conformation he had to be taken out and not having to reach the court and justice of cour courts, happened when they first came under attack and before that i was hoping that somehow he could get arrested. But it was naive to think so. We just put up on the screen pictures of very attractive blond lady. He was she involved . Yes, so after my last meeting in 2009, during that meeting, he hendered and told me he liked to get married to a western convert if i knew anyone. I said i would try to see if i can find anyone. I never imagined i would find anyone. But when i returned from the meeting, after the attempt where they learned he was behind the operation, and i understood that he was troubled. He was getting there. One thing led to another and you managed to get her to yeman and she had this suit case. But alqaeda was smarter than that. She had to take everything out and there was a detection device and that scheme didnt work. But you got paid for your efforts. The briefcase in the middle is real money morten received. A total of 250,000 and that was the high water mark. You did come back later on and work for them again. What went wrong . What went wrong was it joe didnt happen. He took the suitcase and passed through the passport control in yemen and there was an agreement between the Danish Government and cia that if she does pass, she must pay the 250,000 and that was the deal that the americans unearthed and later she left her passport even where she was staying. The americans cut off communication with me after six months. She asked me if i wanted to join her and track her down. I went to yemen and by the way during the meeting the Danish Government told me americans will pay you 5 million if you are the reason to track them down. You get 5 million. You went back to yemen in the spring of 2011 and you established a mode of communication with him and every time you would meet a courier you would let the cia know where the meeting was going to take place so they could start tracking this thing. The was a sequence of meeting with couriers picking up supplies from you and eventually there is a final pickup and just a few weeks later he is killed in a drone strike. Originally you didnt thing it was your operation think because you didnt hear anything back to confirm that. But reports in the western media and officials briefing a courier who was very much the same as the person you met in terms of their description in terms of how young and their look was the key person that led the drone there. So you then, you know, all of a sudden thought my goodness and this is my operation. There was a moment a week after he was killed in a hotel on the danish riveria where you confront your cia handler. We will play a little bit from the tape if we can. The cia have Just Launched their counter propaganda operation by disabling the power here. Imm imm immaculet timing. I will going to the post and you can call me when you are ready. Anyone have any questions about the accounts of it is rare you hear a cia officer talking to a source and informant and it come out in public. The. D c [laughter] [inaudible] we will wrap this up here. I still see the kingdom. I feel that i mean this5 wh is difficult to for me and my life. We have to say he kept on working intelligence one year all the way to the tribal areas. To be the leader of al qaeda and a significant opportunity through the contacts and who they are concerned about. We cant talk about that with q a and we would like to talk about questioning you could ask anything you would like about his radical days or career as a double agent. Thank you very much. That is very nice. Bbit÷ firstaid quick round of applause for our speaker. [applause] we have run a little long but we have time for questions i will exert my prerogative to ask the first there is more to this story than we have time but it is a fairly remarkable story but can you talk about the documentation what you believe aside from his word what do you have to show this is true . Vitter is a remarkable about of audiovisual material emails and gigabytes between the terrorist contacts with the danish intelligence handlers. Money transfer recordsko6un and the list goes on and it sticks together with the narrative. That gave great confidence to corroborate what he is saying and just to give one example, just go forward one slide where uc awlaki play 20 seconds of that and i will say why this is so important. Well that this is a video. To where he is proposing. Here we go. So that is a Marriage Proposal from awlaki to hisue croatian. How did morten have that in his possession and it never kimmel before . Things like that that to how wonder if he has the replies from what we could place you. It is the absolute wealth of corroboratingo;iq detail but we try to lay it out as much as possible there is the appendix and the cover photo section. There is the documentary where you will see that play out as well. So that gave confidence. We have a microphone coming to you. What does the ncaa think . Anyone here to comment from the cia . [laughter] they have not commented on the record on this storyjnhr. When you describe the reason you did not go to afghanistan because your wife was pregnant you do not want to travel or these but then you went to somaliayy7vpd left your family. I am curious what role did your wife and kids play in either preventing new from going or from leaving . My wife at that time was from morocco. I did not want to leave them nor did i want to take them. Because some people do get arrested over there. And by the way jihad was not obligatory it was the choice. But then it you had to do it. And even in somalia so you need to do it with everything you can do. But your son was thinking highly of you because you went down the religious union. Of course. You are respected for being your own warrior. If you dont you cannot reach that level. Said that is something very severe. Various huge. There is of 80 here. Arg6 there are programs that could be created. But what i think we should do is also looking at these others. To become an example to others so they dont preach hatred and the danger. To reach out to give the youngsters some kind of hope to make them feel welcome in a society. But over in iraq and syria to prevent them from coming back to those countries against humanity. Thanks for your presentation and your work of course. I am curious that you were going undercover in silence because of your wife and children . Eventually they must have find out . We dont talk about the families of because of security considerations. We dont want to get into that too much. Can you talk about the cost of walking away from your family because part of walking away is walking away can you repeat that . You cut out. When you talk about disengaging from the terrorist group that involves walking away from your family . He cannot hear. Way new disengage from the terrorist group is there also that part you have to walk away from your family as part of the bargain . To walk away from these people to realize how evil it is the same reason i want to leave is long. So for me it was very easy but difficult to know that if my children do i may not be able to ever see them. And with that example i knew that. [inaudible] so ive lost everything. Everything. But in the and there would not change if i had the choice i am happy. But what mental toll did that double life take on new . Six years or more not only deceive your family but playable wherever you went that was not you. Did that become incredibly tough mentally or e emotionally . Yes. To the extent you did not know who was the enemy, one day you were one minute then i am under cover. Then i am a husband with a family. It was too easy to go into that role. I did that 10 years. But i had been away for so long. For me it was very stressful. They gave me part of my ptsd. Absolutely. You mentioned after 9 11 jihad was obligatory but i assume this means because of the u. S. Occupation of afghanistan . But now they have declared that caliphate. To wage jihad. After 9 11 it is very different. The floor and 11 it was not obligated because you could choose to fight against the christians are so on. But 9 11 invasion of iraq and afghanistan became obligatory for every muslim. So it doesnt mean defensive. We believe you are sinful or other world stage of their intentions or if you sponsor financially or call into it by encouraging others or inviting other muslims. And then what we see today is isis and most of them have occurred. It is something that has to be done by any means necessary. Otherwise it will bite us. These people, a isis those to study intensively, these people have declared encouraging even to say you must make allegiance obviously that is a strong message. But almost 17 years and was engaged and i have never seen anything like isis. Never. Now we have the last question. Have a question relative to your discussion of awlaki that had various interfaces with three of the hijackers involved with 9 11 did he make mention of his knowledge before 9 11 that it would happen or what he had known after 9 11 . No sir. He never mentioned that he never accused of meeting them. But i remember awlaki saying syria and lebanon and jordan and then you think why would she hogchoker . You can barely even mention it is secrecy would be arrested. But after today it is all over. It is something it is predicted to be religiously motivated. It is approaching 1 00 in the morning where you are. Thank you for bearing with us. Just to give you a sense of how we close the cost that morten had to bear while on the cutting edge of counterterrorism operation of various leaders of al qaeda what you are about to see was filmed august 2013 what you will hear is the message to morten. 5 of various leaders of al [inaudible] i dont think so. Thank you so much. We appreciated. And for those that came here for coming along. Downstairs there will be a reception. Li downstairs to look at a small percentage but numerically quite a few artifacts from morten life of the jihadist world and espionage. And also we did not get a chance to play the video of awlaki wife responding to the proposaly3 but that