Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On If You Can Keep It 20160626

It was cofounded by two women and another man, hes no longer with the organization. At the time i did the interview, five out of the six national coordinate beers were women. And coordinators were women. And this is a group that is not a gender tea party group, this is Just Tea Party patriots, sort of a straightforward tea party organization. So my sense of talking to people in the tea party is there are lots of women leaders. In fact, they encourage more women to get involved in the tea party. And, in fact, many women that i spoke with thought that it was a far more open, hospitable place to become a leader than, say, the Republican Party. In the book i talk about a couple of women who had negative experiences trying to get involved in their local gop. They were rebuffed, they actually had sexist treatment. So theyre even willing to recognize that sex doesnt exist even among conservative outlets. So i think for them the tea party is, it allows them especially with social media to form groups in ways that they want to reach out to people. So i think its a very welcoming space in lots of ways. Of course, the irony for many liberal feminists would be, hey, youre rejecting policies that have allowed you to rise as leaders, but at the same time, i think that really many of these Tea Party Women find it to be quite a welcoming space. Does that answer your question . Yeah. I also [inaudible] tea party and if [inaudible] somehow gender [inaudible] thats a good question. I really, the focus of my own research i really just interviewed women activists. So i dont really i cant speak to gender dynamics per se. And i and i should also, we should bear in mind that a lot of women i interviewed didnt give gender rationales as the primary reason that they became involved. But in trying to sort of grow their brand to kind of reach out to more women, they often embraced motherhood rhetoric or feminist rhetoric as a way, i think, to sort of juxtapose and contrast to liberal womens groups like now and others who will talk about why its important like when i think about the gun control debate, i think about women as moms talking about why we need more gun controls for protection. These women would say, well, as mothers, i want to protect my children, and i should have access to guns because theyre a great equalizer. Some argued it was more important for women to have guns than men because theyre physically less strong. I can see the point theyre merricking. Its not making. Its not that they would holds those views because they were women, but they sort of extended our ideas of what gender identity means in lots of ways. Yes. [inaudible] great home for a new third party in politics. People always ask that. [laughter] the system is just designed to be a twoparty system. Even if tea party formed a third party, i dont think theres enough support for them to be successful. Im interested to see what happens this year with the lib libertarian party. They might get to debate this year. Theyre not going to win, but they might get to debate. Im dubious that they will form a tea party. The Tea Party Activists and leaders i spoke with have a love hate relationship with the Republican Party. They dont think its conservative enough, but they also realize that they cant get their policies achieved and passed unless they go with the Republican Party. Theyre not going to become democratic, so they work really closely to try to rebrand the gop into a more conservative party. I think realistically theyre not going to be forming their own third party. Its just the system is set up. I would actually argue at the state level the tea partys been more successful because if you look at in 2010 you had this wave of republicans taking over state legislatures especially in the south. And so i think the policies that many of these state legislatures are passing in the deep south especially and in the midwest that are republican controlled are pretty close to what the tea party was initially arguing for. So i think at the state level theres definitely, theyve been a little bit more successful, i think. [inaudible] in the sense of women becoming more conservative or people becoming [inaudible] [inaudible] it could happen. Well, well have to see. I mean, im just interested to see what happens after trump, what the Republican Party actually looks like after this election. You know . Well have to see. [inaudible] oh, yeah, i like the libertarians a lot more than i like the Republican Party. Theyre doing more for me than [inaudible] yeah. So this is a question about libertarians and Tea Party Women. So some of the women i interviewed definitely identify as libertarian. The problem though for the tea party as a movement is that its also drawn in many socially conservative women. In fact, twothirds of Tea Party Women in the general public are born again christians. And so for these women, they would never become a libertarian because libertarians support abortion rights, gay marriage. They want freedom for everybody. So they really want a minimal regulatory state in private life as well as in economic concerns. And so that just would not jive, i think, with a lot of these women Tea Party Activists that i interviewed. And so there are, there are definitely libertarians in the movement who are women. In fact, a lot of them that i interviewed would sort of eshoo the whole e statue the whole argument. It doesnt stop them for making the argument why their policies are better for women ultimately. But i think, you know, i know that robbie and dan did a study in 2013, i think, called in search of libertarians. Only 8 i seem to remember this fact 8 of americans are truly libertarian in terms of rejecting Government Intervention in all areas of life. And its just not a very popular position for most people in this country. Thank you so much, melissa. Thank you. Thank you very much. [applause] [inaudible] please come up, say hello, get a book, have it signed, and if you could do us a favor, fold up your chairs, place them against the bookcase [inaudible] lets have intoed another round of applause another round of applause for melissa. [applause] [inaudible conversations] eric ma tax access is next on booktv. His most recent book is if you can keep it the forgotten promise of american liberty. Welcome to socrates in the city, and happy flag day. [applause] i hope i have communicated to you how excited i am that its flag day. Did anybody read what i wrote in todays paper . [applause] yeah. I wrote an oped in the wall street journal today about flag day, and ill be talking about that a little bit later on. But im just really, really excited about that. I want to talk about why that day is important to me. But it is important to me, and it kind of ties into the theme of the book, actually. So im not talking about the book yet. Im introducing myself first, right . Actually, im not going to introduce myself. I did that the last time actually, let me back up. If you dont know what socrates in the city is and a lot of people watching on cspan and facebook have no idea what it is i want to say, first of all, thank you for wrapping up your early bird dinner and hustling to the tv, cspan people. I appreciate that. [laughter] its tough to pull yourself away, Golden Corral has several soups, and i know its tough to pull yourself away, but i appreciate it. [laughter] ive been on cspan before, its okay. They get my humor, its okay. Its okay. But i want to say that this is a socrates in the city event, but its a little bit different for a socrates in the city event. Normally i interview someone, and you can go on youtube. Just go to socratesinthecity socratesinthecity. Com. Weve got tons of videos of me interviewing really extraordinary people. We had i cant even think to have the list, but you go there, we had dick cavett, Malcolm Gladwell right here on this stage, we had cher [laughter] moms maybely, tornadoty fields, hang on. Funny man jack carter, burns and shriver, the comedy team, and burns and allen, and we had steve allen and edie gourmet. We had the gabor sisters, the andrew sisters, the lennon sisters, the smothers brothers. Gosh, i think thats about it. No, we had vladimir nabokov, flip wilson, telly saw valueless, joe nay moth, abbott and costello, that was a cameo. The ritz brothers, Wild Bill Hickok on this stage. I interviewed them all. [laughter] also Charles Darwin [laughter] and the marquee delafayette. He was old. It was tough to get him, he was very, very old. But anyway, so weve had a really eclectic smorgasbord of guests at socrates in the city. Socrates in the city gets its name from socrates. Did you guess . Im greek, so i can pretend that im familiar with greek philosophy, and we picked the name socrates because he said famously the unexamined life is not worth living, and then he blew his brains out in an alley. [laughter] its so sad. So sad. No, socrates said the unexamined life is not worth living. He said it in greek. By the way, amber and seth, youre very late. Please take your seats. If youre my friends and you show up late, i will call you out. [laughter] i have to say that we realize that in new york city people tend to avoid the big subjects, the important things, right . You know, god, whatever can make you squirm, right . Does god exist . What is the nature of reality . The kind of questions that people typically dont get into. So we say its we coffer life, god and other small topics. In other words, everything is fair game at socrates in the city which pretty much means weve had all kinds of different guests on all kinds of different subjects. And i do encourage you go to our web site, cock rah tease socratesinthecity. Com, and last year we did a whole bunch of events in oxford, england, because we thought why dont we take it there. So we did it there. And just really weve had a wonderful time over the years. Before i was interviewing people, we would just have a speech at a podium like this, and weve had a number of wonderful guests do that as well. We i think about six years ago we decided that i would be the guest at socrates in the city. Every six years i am allowed another this. I come out with about a book a year, so i wouldnt do this every year, but when i wrote my bonn hover book in april 2010, i was the speaker, and i introduced myself, and it was very meta, you know . [laughter] kind of messes with your head. It messed with my head, and i was the speaker and the host. So i decided not to do that this time just because its fatiguing. Let me put it that way, its very fatiguing. But six years later ive come up with another book that i actually thought this meets the socrates in the city requirements. Its sort of on the big questions, the sort of stuff that we should all be thinking about probably. Were not going to pretend we have all the answers, but its something we should be thinking about. So we thought it would be appropriate to do this. Now, my publisher, viking, has many representatives here dont raise your hands but they picked this date, june 14th, as the release date. And i thought, did they know that this is flag day . Because i write about flag day in the book, and this day is very, very important to me. And it turns out, they didnt. They just happened to pick june 14th as the day this book should come out. Now, i wouldnt exactly call that a miracle, but its pretty good coincidence, i think. So im really just thrilled. As i said, flag days very important to me, and it sort of is at the center of what happens in the book. So ill talk about that in a moment. Im trying to think about what else i wanted to mention. Im not going to introduce myself, have i mentioned that . Because im not going to. To do that would just be a slap in the face to everyone in the room, because you already know that im me, so im not going to pretend not to be me. A lot of you are here before i start, i just want to say, i am stunned at how many people are here from different parts of the country. If youre not from new york, would you raise your hand . Unbelievable. What a bunch of ruins. Look at em rubes. Look at em. [laughter] its incredible. Im just so thrilled. So many friends from texas, and a number of friends i havent seen in years. Im just so thrilled to see my friends justin, pat, a number of people who just surprised me. Blew my mind. Thank you for coming and sharing this important event with me. I see friends from all around the world, but im not going to mention all your names. But thank you for coming. Okay. Let me turn to the subject at hand. The book that i have just written is called [laughter] is called if you can keep it. So im going to talk for a few minutes about that, and then were going to open it up to q a, all right . Youre going to be q, im going to to be a, and well see what happens. Theres so much that i want to say on the subject of the book. I hardly know where to start, so let me start with title. With the title. If you can keep it. Some people get the reference, other people didnt graduate high school. [laughter] just kidding. I wouldnt have gotten the reference myself. Its once you know something, you feel like, oh, everybody should know that, right . Well, i wouldnt have gotten it. Here is where i get this from. In 1787 Benjamin Franklin was with exiting the Constitutional Convention, Independence Hall in philadelphia. Now, part of the background of everything im going to say is that i didnt know this stuff, right . I got what i would consider a decent education, Public School in danbury, connecticut, went to a good university, but none of these places really seemed to communicate to me a lot of what im going to share with you tonight which, again, forms the backdrop of why i wrote this book and why i feel such a burning passion to communicate these things. But the story is that in 1787, to refresh our memories, things werent going so well for the United States of america. Right . We had, i would say, genuinely miraculously come into existence when you know the details, and i put them in my book, it is a staggering thing. We ought not to have succeeded. It doesnt make much rational sense that washington was able to succeed. The battle of long island, i didnt put that chapter in my book, you can blame my publisher, brian. Where is he . Brian, where are you . Brian, its brians fault. Hes got paper, papers expensive, he couldnt do it. He couldnt pull it off. He doesnt have the juice in the company to pull that off. But in the fiewrchtion i know he will. The point is theres so many miracles that happened that when you put them all together, you say this is remarkable. You dont have to accept it as gods hand but it is nonetheless remarkable when you look at the things that came together to create this nation. At least for me, it was remarkable. I would read these things and say, this is staggering. It really does seem like god had his hand on the creation of this nation. It just doesnt make much rational sense. But, again, you dont have to buy into that. You have to understand that it is remarkable that were here. So 1776, we come into existence rather miraculously. We win the war. But in 1783 when the hostilities cease, what happens . We had the articles of confederation. We have a very weak federal government. Now, the whole point of the United States of america was to have a weak federal government. You know that, right . [applause] im getting applause. The tea party is here. Awesome. [laughter] thats the point of limited government. However, if it is too limited, then you have no government, right . We get this. So youre looking for this incredibly fragile balance. And all of the leaders, the founders, the framers understood it wasnt quite working. So by 1787 they said weve got to go back to the drawing board and figure this out. So they go to Independence Hall in philadelphia. They spent about 100 days. The creation of the constitution itself seems miraculous. And, again, i say seems. Theres nothing, theres no proof here that it was miraculous, but the point is you have to go to the founders themselves and read what they wrote, and they all say that trying to find a compromise between the slave states and the free states, mean maine and georgia, on and on and on, was essentially impossible. It was not working. And they were despairing that this could ever work. Now, imagine the people who werent inside the Constitutional Convention were probably thinking, okay, what are they going to do in there . Are they going to give us some kind of a limited monarchy . I mean, imagine, in the history of world, thered never been a republic like we have, nothing like it. And we forget. We kind of think, oh, its normal. Whats the big deal . The the big deal is it had never existed in the history of the world, okay . So you have these people in this room doing something, and the people outside that room are probably wondering, whats going to happen . Are they going to create some kind of limited monarchy . Whats it going to be . Well, Benjamin Franklin, one of the most secular of all of the founders, exhorted the people in the room to pray. Now, do you realize how bizarre that is . Benjamin franklin was the one to do that . But he exhorted them to pray, and he said that god came to our aid in the formation of this country, why would we doubt that he would help us now . Because they were at an utter impasse. In any case, things worked out, they created a constitution. Many of those who were there actually used the word miraculous. They said it really was simply astounding that this thing worked out. And at the end of this, Benjamin Franklin walks out of the building which is there, you can visit, many of you have probably visited it. He walks out of the building, and a woman, a mrs. Powell of philadelphia, confronts him. Now, hed been in philadelphia for 60 years, since he was 17, so 67 years hed been living in philadelphia. He probably knew everybody, so i can imagine this dowager comes up to him and says, dr. Franklin, what have you give us, a monarchy or a republic . And franklin says, a republic, madam, if you can keep it. Thats where this comes from. If you can keep it, right . [applause] okay. So the thing is its one of those things that maybe you heard it in history class or maybe you didnt, but the point is it really is one of these odd quirks of history. The only reason we know about this exchange between mrs. Powell whos lost to history and franklin is because james mchenry, the 34yearold delegate to the constitution, happened to hear this and went home and wrote all this in his diary. Thats the only reason we know of the existence of this, okay . It wasnt, like, a speech given by Benjamin Franklin. Benjamin franklin shot this off the cuff and its gone, except its written down, and now we know it. But think of the import of those words, if you can keep it. In other words, he understood and all of the founders understood that what they had created was utterly unprecedented. Now, as a proud greek i know that the greeks invented democracy, okay . We had yes, we did. [laughter] and a lot of stuff, okay . But the point is that the greek citystates were very small, and democracy just flourished for a tiny, tiny period. Here we have 13 colonies, a couple of million people. I mean, the idea of bringing this idea of selfgovernment to a nation, it simply had never been done. And the founders and the framers as they were in that room, the Constitutional Convention, they really understood that what they were trying to do has never been done and probably, rationally, shouldnt be possible. Because if something cant be done for millennia of history, why would they think that it could be possible now . Now, again, every one of thus and its the reason i wrote the book we pretty much take this for granted. Big deal,ing of course it works. No. They really thought that if this is to work, first of all, a constitution has to be an extraordinary document, which it is. But it requires the people to keep it, right . They said if you dont keep it, it goes away. It evaporates. The natural state of affairs is not civil, republican democracy. Thats not, this is not normal. Whats normal is people cutting each other, and they got that at a lot of the other clubs in town. Thats why we always pick this club. Laugh [laughter] so basically, franklin was not saying this lightly. He was basically saying if you can keep it, in other words, now its up to you. Weve created the constitution, but now it is absolutely up to the people. Weve created something that is an outlier, a bizarre anomaly in history where its going to be up to the people to do it, to continue it. And if they dont, it goes away. And so as we know, the people did it. It worked, and it continued and continued and continued. And i think we sort of forgot about the idea of keeping it. And i submit to you, again, its why i wrote the book. For the last 40 years or so, we have forgotten what it takes to keep it, and weve forgotten how important it is for us to keep it. And so i really think weve come to a place where were in trouble. We reason keeping it, basically. Were sort of on fumes. Its like a cut flower. Oh, it looks very nice, but its dead. In two weeks it wont look nice because its divorced from its roots. I really think thats where we are. I really think to be a people, you have to know who you are as a people, you have to know your stories. In the last 20 years or so sorry, in the last 40 or years or so, since the 60s, a kind of negative narrative has taken hold. And i always say that if you focus on what we did to the native americans or the africanamericans, we are right to know about those things, to teach about those things and focus on those things because those are bad things that we need to acknowledge and repent of. But if you get stuck and you keep saying that were bad, we did this, George Washington was a slave owner, in other words, if youre in this kind of selfflannelinglating cycle and you dont celebrate the fact that you abolished slavery and you dealt with civil rights and were always struggling to do this kind of stuff, if you cease to be patriotic in the best sense of patriotic, something goes wrong. Theres a greek proverb that i quote in the book that if you dont boast about your house, it will fall down and crush you. In other words, theres something fundamental, intrinsic to being human to be proud of your family, to be proud of your village, to be proud of your island, to be proud of your nation, your city. Theres something fundamental about that. Now, we all have been schooled in how that can go wrong, right . We know when nationalism goes wrong, it becomes gin goistic, chest thumping. Weve seen where that can go wrong. Okay. But we also have to understand that not having a proper, healthy selfregard, pride in who we are can also go wrong. And i really think thats where we are now. I think weve tried 40 or so years of not really teaching kids you need to love your country, and i really think were at a place where most americans and i say anybody my age and younger, and i just turned 32 [laughter] so i didnt i didnt . Calling me a liar . Anybody my age and younger really probably didnt get this in schools. Now, i didnt. But it never hit me until i was in this room listen to a man speak from this podium. It was oz guinness. I dedicate the book to oz because i ripped off a lot of his ideas, i dont want him to sue me. [laughter] he wrote a book called free peoples suicide, some of you are familiar. And we had him as a speaker, and he spoke about that from here. And much of what he said and oz is from england. So i thought to myself sitting here, i went to good schools, how come ive never heard what hes talking about . It was really basic stuff. At the heart of the whole thing was what he calls the Golden Triangle of freedom. And this is what really struck me. The Golden Triangle of freedom, and this is what he said it was. He says all the founders were aware of this, and hes right, they were. He said the Golden Triangle of freedom was simply this freedom requires virtue, virtue requires faith and faith in turn requires freedom. You got that . No. So freedom requires virtue. I thought, what does that mean . I spoke at a Classical School in texas not long ago, and the kids were saying, yeah, we know, freedom requires virtue. Like, they know. Some schools are teaching this, but ive never heard this. Youre certainly never going to see it on tv. Virtue is a dirty word. We dont talk about virtue, what is that . We talk about competence, but we dont talk about character and vir chiew. What does this mean . And then i thought to mikes its really basic. To myself, its really basic. It requires that the people govern themselves. Now think about that for a second. Selfgovernment requires people to govern themselves. It means that you have to actually govern yourself, okay . Its not just about we govern ourselves, but every person has to govern himself. In other words, you dont need a lot of cops, and selfgovernment means the people will pretty much govern themselves most of the time. And if theyre virtuous, we know that theyll do that. I dont steal not because im afraid of being caught or being thrown in the dungeons of saddam, i dont steal because i believe its wrong to steal, right . So if you have people who are, by and large, virtuous, selfgovernment becomes possible. And the founders understood that. They understood that it wont be possible unless you have people who can handle it, who are going to govern themselves. So freedom requires virtue. The freedom were talking about requires virtue of some kind, right . We dont want to push it too far, but its a basic idea, and the founders all understood this and wrote about it, and i quote them in the book. They all got this stuff. So freedom requires virtue, virtue requires feint. Now, not everyone whos a person of faith is vie chowous, and not everyone who is virtuous is a person of faith. The founders knew when they saw a community that was serious about its faith, they tended to be selfgoverning and virtuous. Ill talk about whitfield in a minute, George Whitfield, but when they would see the effects of the preaching of George Whitfield in the colonies, those places the crime would drop. Its an extraordinary thing. So where there is robust expression of faith, you have people, generally speaking, who are virtuous who are, generally speaking, able to govern themselves. So they understood that freedom requires virtue, virtue requires faith, and faith in turn requires freedom can. Now, what does that mean . Faith in turn requires freedom. In other words, any kind of real faith cannot be forced. If you force faith, its not real faith. If you force somebody to believe something or go to a Certain Church or whatever, you know unless they do it voluntarily, its just a game. Why are they going, right . So you have many countries in europe, around the world, they say that this is the official church. You have to go to that church. There are a lot of people that are going and saying i dont buy it, but im doing it because i dont want to go to jail. Or im not going to start my own church, because i dont want to go to jail. So you have to have real freedom for faith to flourish, otherwise the faith is not any kind of faith. We all know this in america, we get this. You have to have a free market of ideas. So is people say, well, im going to go to this church because i choose to go to thisture of church, not because the Government Forces me. Or i go to no church because i choose not to go to church. So were not forcing anyone to go to church, were not forcing anyone to go to any particular kind of church. Its utterly free. The founders all understood that freedom of religion has to be at the very heart of the United States of america. If the people dont choose themselves what they want to worship, whether they want to worship, how they want to worship, where they want to worship, it doesnt work. So they wanted a robust expression of faith, and they said this form of government wont work unless, by and large, there are a lot of people of faith. But the faith must be utterly free. So they enshrined religious liberty in the constitution and, in fact, they had been really practicing religious liberty for most of the 18th century. Its not universal, but basically america got this kind of stuff. So i remember oz guinness saying it from this very podium, and im sitting there thinking this is crazy. He has just told me how my Government Works and has worked for 230plus years, and ive never really thought about this. And so i was deeply embarrassed until i realized most other people hadnt heard about this. Then i felt really good about myself, because id heard about it first. [laughter] so, but i really thought something is wrong. This is very strange. Why dont i know about this . Then one day, i guess when my daughter was about 7 shes right here, shes no longer 7. Take the cigarette out of your mouth, stop it. [laughter] and i found, i dont know if you know those dover catalogs where you can get all kinds of books and stuff, and i found a paper model of the paul revere house. And for some reason, it appealed to me. Its kind of like that moment in louis surprise by joy where his mother takes the makes the tin of moss and twigs. So i thought thatd be a nice thing to do with my daughter. So i get this thing, and were building this little house, and then i realized, you know what . The poem, paul reveres ride by Henry Wadsworth longfellow, ive never really read that poem. Because when i went to yale, for example, poems that rhymed were sneered at. [laughter] because only stupid people would want poems to rhyme, right . Most people would want really elliptical, obtuse poems that mean nothing, and you never read e them. [laughter] so i picked up the poem, and i started reading it. And most of you know little snippets of it, right . You know, listen, my children, and you shall hear of the Midnight Ride of paul revere. On the 18th of april in 75, hardly a man is now alive who remembers that famous day and year. And i started reading it, and i realized that i hadnt really gotten past that much. As i read through it, i thought, i havent heard this. And it was so beautiful and so moving that i was stunned. I was absolutely stunned by the beauty of poem, and i thought to myself why have people sneered at poem . And this kind of gets into where weve been in a culture where weve sneered at this kind of stuff, patriotism, its so corny, you know, or Norman Rockwells an idiot, right . And so i said to my daughter, why dont we see if we can memorize this . Do you think we can pull this off . And we decided to memorize it. And my daughter, being 7 or 8 at the time with a fresh brain was able to memorize it slightly more quicklying than her father. Quickly than her father but we memorized it together. And as we were memorizing it, i thought to myself, ive never felt what im feeling right now. Im reading this poem, and im getting these feelings of patriotism that are breaking my heart. Theres a line in the poem about and theres a chapter in the book on this poem, but it says and there was one asleep in his bed who at the bridge would be first to fall. Its talking about lexington, right . And so hes evoking the image of a man asleep in his bed who at the bridge would be the first to fall. So a few hours from now this mans going to be pierced by a british musketball and die. And it just appears to me to read this. Because i thought, im a father and, you know, if i was 7, maybe this isnt going to do much, but when youre older, these things mean something to you. I was so moved by this, i thought, the sacrifice ive never thought about this. You dont hear about this on tv really, right . You dont hear about this. You certainly dont hear about this in the ivy league. God forbid they would say anything patriotic. And its a sad thing. But as you get older, you start realizing how sad it is that theyve turned their backs on faith and on patriotism as though these are, you know, these are something from an older or time. We dont do that anymore. Were too sophisticated. And as i was memorizing this poem with my daughter, it reminded me of doing the same thing with my father when i was young, because the greeks are not afraid of pate outth rot patriotism. And every march 25th at our church we would have an event where wed celebrate greek Independence Day which is march 25, 1821, and the kids would be, you know, forced to memorize poems. Since i was a straighta student, they would give me the long poem. And i hated it. My father would say, well, you know, well get up early, and well sit on the couch in the living room, and ill help you. The one i remember which is about, its this old patriot, you know, who wants to die. He served his country and whatever. As my father was reading the lines to me in greek, he would get choked up. And i would get embarrassed, you know, when youre 12 or 13, you dont understand this stuff, you feel inadequate when your parents get choked up or something. But i realize now that he was experiencing exactly what i was experiencing with my daughter with this poem. That you read something, and it gets to you because when youre older, you understand sacrifice, death, what people have gone through for our freedoms. These are not things we take lightly. And a healthy culture celebrates that, right . So in Greek Culture they dont say, oh, who are we . We dont want to talk about greek exceptionalism. No, they know greeks are better than everybody. [laughter] on the planet. [laughter] if you dont believe me, ask my cousin john, hes right here. Hell straighten you right now. So i was raised in a home where we were proud of our greek heritage. We werent ashamed. We didnt say, oh, we dont get boo that, you know . But its interesting because i i was also raised in a home where we were proud of being americans. My cousin john, my father and uncle were very patriotic americans. They came to this country in the 50s, and they knew that this was a great country. So when somebody would Say Something against america, theyd come after em. Because they said who hell are you . Do you know, i mean, have you been to other countries . Do you understand what we have here . We better be grateful for what we have here. Is america perfect . Of course not. But if you dont appreciate what we have, youre a fool. Its something that we need to appreciate. Now, youve got to put everything in context, right . You dont want to be a nationalistic, chestbeating fool, but to not appreciate what we have is sick, its wrong. Especially when its the United States of america. So reading that poem and a number of things made me think were living in a really strange time. Because kids dont learn these poems. If there were 90yearolds in this audience or 80yearolds, ill bet you many of them memorized paul reveres live. They memorized the village blacksmith. It was the thing that was done because a people, in order to be a people, needs to know the stories and the poems and the songs that make you a people. Otherwise you break down into red state, blue state, rock em, sock em monsters beating each other over the head. You have to have something in common. And what we had in common was that kind of history and all of those stories. Everyone, liberal, conservative, we all understood this kind of thing. We all understood that paul revere was a hero. Nathan hale died for his country at age 21, this noble man. All of those stories were on the lips of every american. And when you came to america, you were forced to learn this stuff. You were forced to learn a little bit about the history of the country. People didnt say, oh, we dont want to harsh your mellow and start telling you about American Culture, you know, because youre from another cup. We dont want another country. We dont want to do that. So my parents learned this stuff. People came to this country, they were buying into something. Why . Because america is not defined by ethnicity. Every ethnicity exists in america. Its not defined by religion. Every religion exists in america. Were defined by an idea. Were the only country in the history of the world that was created and defined by an idea. And, therefore, in order to keep the republic as franklin enjoined us to do, we must know those ideas, we must understand those ideas, we must buy into those ideas and we must live them out, otherwise america ceases to exist because it is an idea. And so as i said, the more i looked around, the more i thought we really dont know these ideas nhl. Weve not anymore. I was not taught these ideas. These ideas are not popular on tv. The idea of loving your country, its just not frowned upon. What has happened . Are we becoming america in name only . Are we becoming america and not america . If americas an idea and we dont understand these ideas, it seems to me that thats what happens. American exceptionalism doesnt mean that we are inherently better. God forbid, okay . Im a christian. I know that everybody has an equal amount of original sin. We all stink. We dont deserve anything, and everything that we have is a gift from god. So i dont think were better than other people by didnt of where we dint or where we live or ethnic background. I mean, look, were better than the french, but ill leave it at that. [laughter] i dont have time to get into that. But the point is we are not better than anybody. So anybody who thinks americas better, its not that americas better. American exceptionalism refers to these ideas which are basically a gift from god, and if you dont think that, theyre certainly a gift from history to the founders from the founders to us. We did not come up with these ideas. We did not create everything that we have. Its a gift. And so when youre given an incredibly valuable gift, you have to know the value of it. Imagine if somebody gives you an expensive laptop, use it as a frisbee. I mean, the person who gave it to you would be annoyed because it cost a lot of money. They could have given you a frisbee and saved themselves some money. What we have is an exquisite treasure, and we dont appreciate it anymore. We dont know what it is, we dont know how it works, and its not easy for us to keep the republic. Its not an easy thing. If you think democracy is easy, try sprinkling a little bit of that on iraq and afghanistan. See how that turns out. It doesnt turn out so well because people have not been prepared over decades and decades and decades to know how to use it. We were prepared in this country, rye . Because we had why . Because we had centuries of british law going back to the magna carta. We were biblically literate. In other words, we were prepared in a way that was extraordinary. And i have to say the most extraordinary thing of all, when i read about George Whitfield, i was utterly astounded. Because i realized that George Whitfield came to this country theres a chapter on him in the book and he was one of the oddest figures in history. A 31yearold crosseyed 21yearold, crosseyed advantage list. If thats my wife, im not here. [laughter] oh. He was a phenomenon, okay . He makes billy graham and the apostle paul look like loser atheists, okay . [laughter] he basically preached four times a day [laughter] nonstop for decades. Now, this is true. I mean, he was a man on a Mission Unlike Anything thats ever existed. Have to worship his way or this way. Saying the most basic gospel message. Manage going to church and theyre preaching moreility and they tell you youre a jerk and this man says youre a coal miner or fish wife, a loser, youre failure, and god loves you . And has a plan for your life and wants to pour out his love on you and you are no different than the duchess or the duke of the king. That upset the duchesses and dukes and the king because it was a message of egalitarianism. He is preparing a message that pieing are buying into. Thats true. We are all made in the image of god and this order that was still a holdover from england began to create an american character in a way im overstating it for time but the point is over the course of dedicates he prepared up pree e preached up and down the colonies so much that bit the time is walt over 80 meteorologist of the people in the 13 colonies had heard him in person there where are no tvs in those days or if you were lucky enough to have a tv you had to use a rabbit antenna and good on the roof. So try to imagine how much this man preached and when preached thousands would come to hear him. Thousands would come to hear him over and over. By the time he was done he was basically the patron saint of america. Americans loved him. The only celebrity known from maine to georgia. Everybody knew of whitfield. Everybody bought into his thinking. And he also basically said, if you are valuable in guides eyes no one can rule over you. If theres a ty rapt, tyrant, you say, be gone. And if king george iii is acting like a jerk, you can get rid of him. He didnt put it that way. These were radical ideas that come right out of the gospel. So you have americans uniting around the person of whitfield and many, many people becoming very serious about their faith and so revival breaks out all over, and people became more virtue tuition. This is why Franklin Franklin loved whitfield. When he dies, suddenly the people are uniquely prepared to govern themselves. So when the founder goes into this room and create this government, they can hand it over to people who will teen it, who have a better chance of keeping it than anyone in the history of the world. So i say that without whitfield we would not exist. Who knows. That seems to be the case. So, when i understood all this i thought to myself, its scandalous we dont know this, we dont know how fragile our government is, our government our way of life, culture, and and if we dont get serious about keeping it, its game over. Nose as searas as the revolution or the civil war because its an existential crisis. If were facing john bull or johnny reb, you can fight that fight. You get that crisis. But this is a crisis which has been like termites silently hollowing us out from the inside. Nobody really sees any threat. But if we become america in name only, if we become a hollow shell, of america in quotes, where america actually used to be, well cease to have selfgovernment and its already happening. You dont have to be this book is not not democrats or republican or liberals or conservatives. This is a book for all americans. We all sense that some things arent going well, selfgovernment is and liberty are being challenged in a host of ways, whether its a clamoring for an extremely strong leader. We know that can go wrong. And that it comes with problems. 0 whether its clamoring for a judiciary that legislates from the bench in a way that is unconstitutional. The point is that what we have is very fragile and you can screw it up. So were aft a crisis. When longfellow wrote this moment, paul reveres wide, the wanted america to wake up and to see that they had to rise to the occasion, they had to fight, and so he wrote this poem. And i realize that poems and stories and books, these are the things that can galvanize us, make us see where we are. To some extent i hope my book fulfills that kind of a role. Wrote it hoping that we could get a conversation started in our culture, a bipartisan conversation on this subject, because i really do believe that theres a huge existential threat. We could cease to exist. You wont notice it. Everything will look the same. Not going to burn our mansions, at least not yet. But its something we have to take seriously. My publisher has graciously offered to give a number of copies to members of congress and another person who i will not name, walter kirk. To donate a number of books because i would love to every member of congress to get a letter from me with this book and stay, what do you think about this . This is not written for democrats or republicans. This it written for every american, doesnt matter. These are fundamental useds. We bought into them for 200 plus years. Not only arent be buying into hem, were ignorant of them. We have to dare to be patriotic and teach our children what we stand for. I hope those books will be sent soon and then i can get on my Radio Program and shame these congressmen into reading it and say, i got a letter from so and so and he read it. Hope everyone here people ask me, what ick do . You can contact your congressman in a months time and ask them if he got the book and has read it. If the people will be the people, and we will hold our leaders to account, something can be done. Im not one of these people that says game over, hopeless. God forbid. Im not permitted to lose hope. So, ill leave it at that. We have a few minutes for q a. Just from the podium . That concludes the enter tape entertainment portion of the evening. Thank you very much. [applause] i would love now, my daughter and i prepared a duet which wed love to sing for you. Come on up. Im kidding. Just teasing the poor kid. Ill king alone, then. No, i would love to have a few minutes for your questions. I ask you as we always do at socrates in the city to put your questions in the form of a question. Okay . So im not interested in any statements or anything about the history of your family but id love to know if you have any questions. Speak loudly ol have a microphone. Okay. So somebody raises a hand, then you can ask me anything, and by the way ill tell you i prefer true or false questions. Bit it doesnt matter what it is. I see hand right here. Youre going to im sorry go to the microphone. Thats right. And i am sorry to say up front, please be brief because i am hoping we can get to a lot of questions. It will be fun. Peter martin. Welcome to socrates in the city. Eric metaxas. My question is the form of the question jive i had a thunder bolt in my right hand right now [laughter] i want to ask the significance of lady liberty on your cover . At every event we begin this club with a pledge of allegiance, and being flag day, why do we do that . No. Not going to happen. Actually, its so sweet, peter. I want to resent you but it cant. Youre so seat and so disarming. I dont mind doing that but it will shock some people walking on cspan. It will freak them out. Hear hear. Just dont do nazi salute. What great idea. So peter is the host. Ill start. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of america, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [applause] wow. What a great idea. Put your brown shirts on and well start marching right after this is over. But its so funny because i went to a school and i grew up in new york, any kind of patriotism, even makes me uncomfortable do we do that . Well, when guy around the country i was someplace and they were singing god bless america. I had tears in my eyes. Your question was about the cover of my book and im glad you asked. What does lady liberty mean on the cover of your book . We were just looking for a cheap graphic that didnt have any rights attached to it. Well, basically, one thing i didnt stay in my speech just now, which is at the heart of the book as well, is that the reason its okay for us to talk about american exceptionalism, the reason its okay for us to be extremely proud of our country is because from the beginning, this nation was always a nation for others. We do not exist for ourself. This is a fundamentally biblical idea inch the early pages of genesis, abraham is talking to god, and god says you are blessed to be a blessing. If god ever chooses you or blesses you, its so that you can bless others. Not so you can keep in. So didnt say were the chosen people. Great. If youre chosen, its an awesome burden. Its a thing that should make you tremble, and in some ways lincoln called this nation the almost chosen people. Quote him in the book. He said theres Something Special about this country because we have the been used to help others around the world. When theres a earthquake, we dont ask question and say, lets seal the money is in. During the Trump Administration we will say that. You have to understand that. We need to see the money and then well send the medicine. Dont think thats true. That was a joke, mr. Trump. Apologize. But the point is that we have always been generous. We have been generous not just with our treasure but with our blood. We have shed blood on foreign fields. Why . Not only for our selfinterest. Anybody who says we did it for oil. Those things enter into it, but if you dont understand that americans lives have been given for freedom around the world, we have done the right thing around the world when it cost us. Shame on you if you dont know that. Or you cant admit that. Or you youre so cynical you dont believe that. Its simple fact we have done that. We have not simply acted in our selfinterest. We have said that, as we go, the world goes, and as the world goes, we go, and our boys died in vietnam. Whether we were right to be there or not, the point is the idea was were not just an island and we want to just exist here and have everything we have and everybody else can go to hell. Never been the american way ask that kind of attitude is fundamentally unamerican. The statue of liberty is an example, and actually i write about this in the epilogue of the book, there was a moment in i think might have been im pretty sure it was late 2001, so must have been two months after the attacks. We were on a speed ferry going to new jersey, 34th street dock you get on the ferry and we good to new jersey to visit my inlaws and i was on the upper deck and i looked over and we really close to the statue of liberty and i got really choked up. Why . I got choked up because im thinking of 9 11 and also because im thinking about the fact that look at this country, we were attacked by evil men who wanted to do us harm. But we still managed to keep a posture of welcoming to the other world. Were the only country that would be attack it by radical muslims. One of the first things we worry about is that muslims would be attacked by our people. So that our president commutes out says, dont do that. Thats the normal, natural thing to do, is to kick the butt of in people you think are atillated with those who did that. Dont do that. Thats not the american way. We have always struggled, to be welcoming to the foreigner and compile. To the exile. You can be sloppy like Angela Merkel saying, everybody come in. Thats pure guilt for what happened 80 years ago, theyre trying to redeem themselves and say, come on in theyre not thickening rationally. The point is we have to think rationally but we know, we all know, that we are indeed a nation of immigrants and we know we have to have a posture that says, welcome, and we have always been that way. The statue of lisch to me symbolizes that, and of course particularly touching for me because both my parents passed the statue in a ship in the. 50s, and i remember asking my mother when i took her to germany a year ago and asked her about that, and she said it was 5 00 a. M. And they were woken up in the bowels of the ship and ran up and there it was. She says it was very emotional. Now, why is that emotional for people coming to this country . They know this is real. Like this is not some cynical idea, oh, yeah, america, americas really great. I know america is great and is going to give them a fair shake and an opportunity to work hard to send their kids to college. I lived the american dream. My parents came from another place and so to me thats at the heart of who we are as a people, and so thanks for the question. Its very important to understand that if you really exist to bless others, that is a different kind of exceptionalism. We have spent missionaries around the world. People have heard about freedom, god loves them, who have gotten economic freedom, have religious liberty. We said these are not our ideas to keep. We want the whole world to be america weapon dont want to keep these things for ourselves. Thats why the statue of liberty is on the cover, and the reason she is fading is because the question, if you can keep it, is a pointed question, a pointed statement when franklin made it in 1787 in philadelphia and a pointed statement moisture dont think were keeping it. I think liberty is receding. You can still see the torch is still in focus so i dont think its lost, but i think were losing it and so this book for me is something that i wrote this is my last my best shot at trying to wake us up to what we have and to try to start a movement of some kind that we would take this seriously. I think that our election right now is a symptom of this. Everything that is going bad is a system of this. We, the people, have to be the people, we have to love our country and understand our country. Great question. Before i leave, the last word, the statue of liberty was delivered by Chauncey Depew, americas greatest speech writer, who preceded the president of the United States in his ultimate address. So i you have that put the just so you could gesture to it. We change it when the speakers change. So i suggest all of you look up Chauncey Depew if youre at a dinner and dont hear one of his quotes youre due a 50 refund. Thats right. Peter told me this club has very, very much to do with the statue of liberty coming to america and so on and so forth so we the the Union League Club toty. I love your attempt to be bipartisan. Im a reagan democrat and our parties increasingly have radically different world views, and people, many people remember that god was shouted down in the 2012 election. People will watch this on cspan who will actually resent the fact that we recite the policemen of allegiance. I know. What are your look at them. What are your thoughts on bridging that incredible again, thats another one of those fundamental reasons i wrote the book. There are people heres the thing. There will always be ideologies on both sides. People for whom being reasonable is not acceptable. Right . And they are they have a take no prisoners attitude. Didnt write this book for those people. Wrote this book for the people in the middle. I dont mean ideologically in the middle. These are the people who are open to reason, and when they read about this, they may even say issue dont agree with every little thing but basically i get this. When i watch mr. Smith goes to washington i feel a love for my country. We have to be rational and reach out to people who are willing to be rational. People have read this book and praised it who are secular liberals, and that proves to me that i wanted to write this book for everybody. This is for reasonable people. And so theyre always going to be the people we have to understand that to argue with people on those fringes is to cast pearls before swine. We ought not to do if. We ought not to just let them think what they want. Would submit to you there are plenty of americans across the political spectrum who would say, yes, theres something here. Theres something beautiful about teaching our kids the Great Stories of the heros. There is such a thing as a hero. Were not all bums. People have sacrificed their lives so we can have what we have, and we need to understand that, not teaching that has harmed us, and so were not going book to 1920 but we have to really understand that we have failed, things have not gone will and im convinced there are people, as i say, most people, most people who read books, most people in this country, they get this. This is not something that may please the people who are Editorial Board of the nation or on the john birch society. Really dont care. Think this is, again, for all americans, and if you understand that were in a tough spot, you understand this is something that must be taken seriously. So thank you. Thank you. We have a final question . Ill take more questions. These are nice questions. Hi. Would you be more specific about what things you see as threats to america and why you say were losing the idea of america i would be more specific . Yes. No. And about the not going to happen. No more specifics about the other yes, all right. I, be more pick. Not following the constitution well, i think there are number of problems. Heres the thing weapon dont talk about virtue anymore. When i was reading particularly some of the stuff from the colonial era and also up into lincoln, the things they said and the language they used was remarkable. They talked about honor, and duty. We dont talk about that kind of stuff anymore. Now, thats a very odd development. What has happened that we are afraid to talk about honor, duty, patriotism, love of country. We have to yourselves what has happened and why is it okay to let that stuff evaporate . What do we think what will happen exactly . And i think that if youre not talking about virtue and not teaching virtue in school, if youre so afraid to teach virtue or right or wrong, which we seem to be. Youre raise amoral people. When i say to somebody, racism is bad, right . Wi youll hear that. Certain thing youll hear. But dont get into why. We ought to be able to have discussions on what we believe, what is right, what is wrong, what just happened in orlando is the classic case. If i was a i would say who carolina what happened there . Why do i care . What difference does it make . Well, if you have a world view that says people arecrafted in the image of god, and theyre infinitely valuable, and eave american everyone in the world has value and ought to have dignity. If you believe that, then you try to create a society where people respect people with other points of view. So we have to get into that conversation, and where we are right now is in its the politically correct sound bite. Its one of the reasoned started socrates in the city is to have these conversations to introduce people who have written books boot these things to think more deemly. We dont do that neil anymore. Where is this guy that asked me the question . There you go. So i think that we have to be able to talk about these things and we have been afraid to. We dont do that. And i think that you see examples in the culture, a breakup of culture. Dont want to go into it but i would say in terms of morality, absolutely, there are real problems. Theres cheating scandles. If youre amoral, you say i need to do what i need do to get ahead put what about teaching kidded that wrong. Thats not okay. But we dont get into. The whole idea of ethics. Your right and wrong we have to have those conversations. Were afraid to have those conversations i guess because were freud we are going to offend someone and that concerns me. That we have to have these conversations about what am i to believe . If my religion teaches me that sex outside of marriage is wrong or that homosexual lifestyle is one i want to follow, how die exist in a culture like this . Well in america, we say, you can have all the differences you want. Rear free to think what we want but we have to respect each other. But other place. In the world they save i you disagree with somebody, you can kill them. Treat them as subhuman, inhuman. Thats what radical islam does and strikes meed a odd we dont have a language to talk about we get uncomfortable talking about radicalism. Now how isis treats gays . They throw them off Tall Buildings and kill them. We need to have these conversations about what do believe as americans . I think we have completely avoided it. The a very shallow plate the government will grow if the people dont govern themselves and so you have strange things happening like even row v. Wide or the oberg decision. The way the court got there is bizarre. How do you find in the constitution a right to samesex marriage or right to abortion. Even legal scholars say it feels like judicial activism. Their job is to interpret the constitution and its the job of the people in the state to vote. That the democracy. But in a way, the natural course is for government to grow and grow and grow and to ueurope sue superthe rights of the people. We saw it under bush and under obama and its the people who have to say, no. Thats not the way we do things near this country. We have david way. The people are the government and were not going allow people to rule over us. But i do think that is beginning to happen. I dope think theres any doubt. I dont want to go on any longer but i see all kind of examples of it. Write about them in the book and ill want to think about this more because this im sure thats a great question, and i dont have more than that. Jojo starbucks, the olympic skater. Eric, thank you for what you brought to us. I do hope that you are starting something in our country with this book, and all of us here. Kind of wish you were running for president. I am. [applause] i cant get any press. I cant get any press. Bernie sucks the oxygen out of the room. Heres my question. If freedom requires virtue and virtue requires god, what are we going to do . It is politically incorrect to talk about god and to have it in our schools on cspan you can just do it. Our children need to hear have a moral compass and without okay. Heres the thing. When people say, like well, its politically incorrect. Heres my question. So what . Right . Actually, my dear friend, rick cav contract very said if you say that some and that offends somebody, you say, so what . One of the most wonderful things about American Culture is our desire to please everyone with worry before about what people. But that it can go to far and i think it has become a forum for us. The idea that were changing policy the transgender bathroom thing is such an odd even if you kind of think its a good idea, its still another one of these odd things that we are bending over backwards for. 01 of the people. Do you even know what youre talking about . Again, weve given so much power to the crazy voices, i mean, the people on University Campuses who are, theyre insane. Theyre in this tiny academic bubble, theyre crazy. And the academic leaders, or i should say the College Administrators are so cowardly that they cannot stand up to these tiny maniacs who theyve allowed to be there on the campus. Its an extraordinary thing. But, again, it shows you that if you dont have a robust sense of right and wrong, youre going to back down when people scream. And i really think weve got to, you know, most americans are, i think, at a point in this election saying, look, weve kind of had enough. Like, we have real problems, and lets talk turkey, right . Lets talk. And weve got to stop being so easily offended. Its just ridiculous. So i think the first thing we can do is to say, look, tough luck