Many of these authors will be appearing or have appeared on booktv. You can watch them at booktv. Org. Meg jacobs, its really a pleasure to get a chance to talk to you here at the carter center. I and also welcome the audience thats come out tonight to listen to our conversation. Meg jacobs is the author of panic at the pump the Energy Crisis and the transformation of american politics in the 1970s. Meg is a, teaches history and Public Affairs at princeton. Youve written, this is third or fourth book . Something like that. Something like that . You wrote a book i was interested in because were going to be talking about conservatives and liberals, but one of them is you were coauthor of conservatives in power the reagan years, 19811989. Okay, interesting. Okay. Were going to talk a bit about conservative politics and liberal politics for that matter too tonight. Let me, lets start with this, if we can. Okay. And you correct me. You have a thesis for this book, and ill let you describe can it, obviously. But, essentially, what you argue many in this book is that the two Energy Crises of the 70s, 73 yeah. 79 yeah. Essentially were part and a major factor in the transformation of more than politics of american politics. And among other things, made americans realize that perhaps government could not take care of them the way we had assumed for a long time. And, thus, paving the way for a conservative revolution. Fair enough . Fair enough. Very good job. [laughter] thank you. And thanks for having me here. That is, that is what i discovered in writing this. And its really, it became a really interesting story the way that all of the anger, the a frustration as americans waited hours upon hours on gas lines during these two oil to oil shocks really led to a transformation in how americans perceived their relationship to government. That government, in fact, could no longer take care of them,m, provide for them, guarantee them access to the kind of lifestyle theyd been living. And that really comes to a head in the summer of 1979 when people are just furious and blame washington, hold washington accountable. Well, of course, explore that this more depth as we move through our conversation. But, you know, some of the people who will listen to this, some of the people who are here have no recollection of what either of those crises were like. This was, in both cases,like. Tremendously traumatic episodes in our contemporary history, werent they . Well, if you think about it, right, regardless of when you were born because i think this still holds true if you ask americans what possession a sort of best symbolizes, you know, your sense of, you know, of being an american, people would say the car, right . There is a long romance with the car. And, indeed, right up until the oil shock, right up until the Energy Crisis american cars weru getting bigger and bigger and bigger. They were living rooms on wheels. And people felt a teach a deep attachment. And now you take the car, this symbol of progress, of american success, and now its become the opposite. Its a sign and symbol of weaknesses, of decline, of decac as people wait for be hours upon hours in these milelong gas lines. He that, thats it. The gas lines were the most dramatic symbol of how americans had to rethink how we lived. And they were, i mean, i remember them quite well. I remember the fear that we had of driving with almost no gas left in our cars and hoping that we could get to a gas station that might have a short enough line that thered be gas left. It was really extraordinary. It was not the america that we thought we lived in. Well, i chose the title panic at the pump, its a phrase that journalists and reporters used at the time. And i thought it was really apt to call the book panic at the pump because that sense of panic, of pandemonium really sort of captured americans mindset at the time. And its interesting to think about why. The actual shortage of fuel was not overwhelming, did not in and of itself require a massive change in lifestyle, and yet americans reacted as if this was the end of the world as they had known it. And so this triggered a kind of behavior, a sort of paniclike behavior whereas you describe this sort of fear of running out. And so people were driving around with a months supply of gasoline in their tanks rather than, you know, rather than in the ground which, of course,nk exacerbated the crisis. Well, the Energy Crisis of the mid 70s or the continuing Energy Problems that led to the crisis at the end of the 70s had a major impact on the carter presidency as you talk about in great detail. Because were sitting here in the carter president ial library, we will get to a little bit more indepth conversation specifically about carter and what he experienced in trying to deal with the problems that he faced with energy. But lets back up okay. For a minute. You kind of bookend your book yep. With george h. W. Bush. Yeah. You open the book with george and barbara bush moving to odessa, texas, to do what . They go in surgery in search of oil and the american dream. George h. W. Bush graduates fromt yale in 1948. He decided he doesnt want to follow in his familys footsteps and go to wall street. S hes going to go search for his own fortune, albeit with some family connections, out in texas. Mi and it really sort of captured what i was talking about a moment ago, this sort of sense of endless abundance, right . En so this is a moment of great discoveries in west texas x he arrives right at the right w moment, and its there that hes going to seek his fortune and also help to build the Republican Party which we can talk about too in texas. So we start there before the ber 1973 arab embargo, because i want to sort of capture what america, what American Culture was like, what expectations of the average american were like that sort of is best represented by this freeflowing black gold that came out of the ground. And i end the book in 1991 after weve been through the Energy Crisis which americans saw as a crisis of shortage, a crisis of scarcity, a crisis of dependencr on foreign oil. And so the book book ends with u h. W. Bush, the oil man, as president in the white house with the gulf war when americanr go to secure the access of oil from the middle east. Fascinating story arc, actually. One thing you point out is in terms of searching for the american dream, when he and barbara arrive, they arrived in texas in 48 and theyre the perfect time because theres been a huge a discovery of a huge oil reserve, this brayberry trend. So this was a promise that wed made the right decision. We were going to make it big in the oil business. Yeah. What is interesting and what sort of then sets the story in motion is when that appears to no longer be the case. So america had been the great energy producer, oil producer, throughout the 20th century, what literally helped fuel the growth of our economy, sort of cardriven economy, but by the late 1960s, there was the sense that we had reached our geological peak of protection, of domestic production. Lets back up. Bush may have gone to the oil fields hoping that he would just be an oil man, but when youre teaming with oil in this country you cant escape politics, and he learned that relatively quickly. In 1954, you remind us, the Supreme Court made an important ruling that would help trigger george bushs interest in getting involved politically in the production and distribution of oil. So, the Supreme Court ruled that the government had the right, the ability to control natural gas prices, and natural gas and oil often come out of the same well in the ground and seen as interchangeable fuels in some instances, and so the fear and concern of oilmen like bush is now the government is going to interfere across the board and control the price of oil, too. And what is interesting about the Supreme Court decision is it comes out of this sort of new deal mentality that americans have the right as fdr said in 1932 when he was first running for president , that americans have a right to cheap and affordable energy, and americans have that mentality, and it hadnt really been a problem until we start to have demands that exceed our supply. One of the important points you make in the book is that we get associate the new deal with roosevelt, the democrats, but in fact the new deal infused a lot of republican thinking of the time as well. Federal government having a major role in helping people live better lives. I think that we can see the period from the 40s, 50s, as a consensus of that position. Then there were interesting people, like george h. W. Bush, who in response to the Supreme Court decision, and then also later to the Environmental Movement, thought that the problem is too much government interference, and so bush quite deliberately, and its an exaggeration to say singlehand deadly but very instrumental in trying to build up the run party in texas. With the argument that if the Republican Party that supports free enterprise, and so to actually increase our domestic supply to make us secure, that we have to sort of vote republican and remove all of these controls. And this sets up a tension, a dynamic, that will be at play throughout your entire book, controls, deregulation, where do we get our oil from, domestic or foreign . And this plays out through the entire history of this period youre writing about. Yes. One thing we tend to lose sight of is that the new deal in some ways, that kind of mentality, lived longer than we remember. This sort of expectation that government will take care of us, and if all of a sudden theres a shortage and gasoline prices spike through the roof, well, then, its governments job to do something bit and that mentality is in play including when president carter has to deal with this problem in the summer of 199. Summer of 1979. Fascinating to think about in light of contemporary politics right now. The notion that government will take care of us is probably less manifest right now than maybe ever before, i think, but youre the historian. I think thats true, and so one of the reasons that i set tout write this book is i wanted to see when that changed. When and how that changed. And it looked to me like a crucial moment came with the Energy Crisis. Of course, the stories that sort of the disillusionment with washington started before so we have vietnam, watergate, and i see those events as playing out differently than the Energy Crisis. Go ahead. So, the argument essentially is that if vietnam and watergate taught americans they could not trust their political leaders, then the Energy Crisis demonstrated that washington didnt work. Lets walk through these crises, and well look at the first crisis at bit more quickly because we want to focus on our host here tonight, jimmy carter. By the way, we will, at a certain point, turn the microphones over to you so if youre going to think about questions you may want to ask when we get to that point of our conversation. 1967, the arabisraeli war breaks out, and that is the first time that the arab states decide that perhaps they should Work Together to use oil as a pressure against americas involvement with israel. But they cant make it work at that point. Why not . Well, this is what the difference between 19 of 2 1967 when its ineye effective and 1973 when they, is the changing situation in Global Oil Market and the United States played a key role in that. So, its just at this moment that demand for energy is. We make up about, at that time, five percent of the world residents population but we use Something Like 80 in the book . Is that right . No, i think we use a third of the world Residents Energy worlds energy. So, theres this greg demand, that people growing demand that people move far center farther from work and drive more and more and expect all climates to be fully air conditioned and at the exact right temperature, but theres declining domestic supply, and that transformation happens pretty quickly from the late of 60s into 73 and because of that situation the air back producers realize they have more control of the market. With the Political Leadership that we could die risk dependence. By 1970 . Opec was producing twice as much oil as United States. We were in a dangerousally are n situation. And yet one that leaders are not fully aware ofso because the other thing that happened in this period after the domestic decline for the first time we also become a major importer of oil so in 1970 we dont import that much by 1973 we import about onethird of our needs. So george h. W. Bush i thought, maybe i am wrong i want to clarify, i thought h. W. Bush said the free world could not risk dependence on foreign wailes. Yes. He is the backandforth character because now he is in washington. They are sounding the warnings. T but nobody is listening. It was you Oil Interests but noe political leaders. Casolo republican voice from the south but nobody is listening. So when the era of the embargo comes one of nixons advisers decided its it really is an Energy Pearl Harbor really is that muchis of a shock. Host although we could say when dixon is in officend the Santa Barbara oil spill at the same time of a horrendous natural disasters. In forces nixon to suddenly think about the conservationists involved. True. We do know nixon did a lot for the environmental is impnt and side in signed into law which was a sweeping piece of legislation that is impossible to imagine todayay talk about the code between man and nature he thinks ite will boost his the ending for the reelection battle in 72 and these are the pressures that they are experiencing. As they have to drill in more harsh blow cowls of their perceived to be battling of the new regulations in their the first ones and Start Talking about this crunch. Host thanks for setting that up now were at h 1973. As you point out it really have a hard. Content of the tremendous shortage of whale and this time the arab states say we will use oil as a weapon and they announce their embargo. Raeb in retaliation of support that is consequential to shrink the supply with the massive price increase. Is the o with us Shortage Research did crisis and nixon was of a good partition this is what the pollsters said itit is a gut level issue. And faced with the Democratic Congress. Bid is closer to the 40s and rationing was only eight vote short of the senate. And this is impossible to imagine today. With a sense of chaos. Tment of appointed the first evernergy it energies are there is a perceived to be anything that we have to do anything n about we is have a lot of it so we dont do anything about it. So there really is no path point. T. With the first ever energy czar route is a free market wall street guy. Like which Public Events with the daytona 500 . That was an actual conversation . It was. Son to elaborate theme time, wha intervention of the crisis coming from the gas line. At the same time with inflation. I thought you would sayth something different. This is the of beginning of a decadelong problem with inflation in this is generating support it is impossible to conceive of now. Lly hard for u but do something about it. It is hard for us to imagine to not only put into place as they are rolling back up prices and retailers are charging. You say that it was so bad that a rose 70 so we were really feeling this incredible the pressure and it was totally foreign to west. Later in the decade you have a phenomenon in the you have a stagnant economy. We had opec imposed the biggest price hike between three and 5 per barrel. This is what y host looking at the 73 prices with the cutback of production this is what you say about all that. As long as israel remains in the occupied territories. You save a single loaf with a substantial shift to the third world the psychological shock wasr, not ay devastating. And not Henry Kissinger or any other members the idea that they would unleash even though the Saudi Oil Minister said we will do that. President nixon goes on National Television to address the Energy Crisiss and makes a statement some of you may wonder if we are turning the clock back to when other age of gas rationing and speed demits it sounds like a way of life we left behind with glenn miller in the 40s but there is no crisis for the american spirit. So looking a project independence of the uniteden states even though he does and how the political muscle to do this to get rid of the regulations in to be selfsufficient and to energy free by 9080. 1980 and then looking at is the role. And the we perceive ourselves to be dependent in. In that cave man as the shock. Host all this plays out when watergate begins to kick given. S the investigation starts having to deal with these things out ones to make us side trip to jimmy carterthem to right after the massacre when he fired the attorneygeneral would not do what he wanted in terms of the tapes, they called him unfit to be president. George h. W. Bush chairman of the chairman of national committee. And then he blasted carter for the watergate embargo but so much of this literature is focused on watergate from the Energy Crisis. On the pocke with the headline that thense of times and are more focused on the pocketbook paid their experiencing at the gas pump and a crisis whether if the president was lying to them. Ended four days later nixon resigns gerald ford takes over the of a great quotation that says from ford, the state of ours. Economy is not so good. [laughter] one of the gloomiest speeches. No interruptions or applies. And he had a doomsday mentality. After rumsfeld banditry me to believe in the oil crisis that would bring the United States down. To make us vulnerable of the international stage. Proportionately the shortages even a bigger problem for the japanese allies they were worried for policy makers to need to secure some now rigo through the administration and with a massive expansion of federal government of the economy suggests a a few words about that it is very important. So when nixon resigns they are as happy they haveom the policy legacy they leave. Behind to economic controls con. But they think this will be an even worse legacy and are quite concerned say you have the advisers to say are you going to try to defy the American Public beyonce lets have that it . Or not . This is a nice moment to pause because what you just said is part of the larger piece it may be hard for many of us have the Political Climate to think about two republican administrations that have the liberal republican agenda we dont want the free market this is what restarts with the republicans as it evolves through the republican. In the same way that we underestimate also another big part of the story that is the conservative one. In shifting the Republican Party to the right to appoint or name nelson rockefeller. You make an interesting point to say the shift into conservatism we think of it as a grassroots effort. This is driven by political republicans and political leaders in washington. So if we knew firsthand exactly what was going on on, like a shop for example, with the epa. We run a basket over jimmy carter but when reagan comes into office and says government is not the solution, government is the problem is a huge a speech in from the 70s. So with the failure of government to deliver in 1979. He makes a really interesting decision that is hard to fathom today because in part because of the oil shock the with the Democratic Congress he says i will not do that then i think it is a bigger threat so theyd negotiate back and forth and to embrace that austerity agenda that we will see in the more recent history and he pays the consequences. Preening jimmy carter to them by house the white house you say it would be updated with the democrats to chart the future of policy where ford of the conservative have left off. Just as dixit end carter will grapple with the my even told problem. Not to give away but it is a spoiler other. [laughter] at this is very sincere comes efforts to deal with the Energy Crisis. He comes to office to youhe very 77 you may remember love the iconic moments when he will walk from capitolne hill. It is freezing that day. [l so what is the iconichis moment . So what is amazing the country was suffering from the deep freeze solicited is snowing in miami end here is shedding his overcoat so the Energy Crisis is a problem from day one its not long before he appears on tv and since by the white house fireplace and announces the crisis is with us it is prepared every require waste sacrifice the only solution is to change our wastefulunderwa ways after he wears long underwear that announces dial dw Richard Nixon said we have to dial down in into the carter says what they do the wh symbolically but. Please keep the itsmostat at 65 degrees. Sow is day combination of urging americans to put away their cars one day a week tons carpoolers use mass transit for with of the disease and service, a combination with the embrace of a possible solution has to be carter is a believer in technology. Re after we walk down pennsylvania avenue a whiff a solar heated area so he is trying to cut back and find toefl solutions. Really sets the tone for the entire administration. It is all about sacrifice and you described it i think in a wonderful way in the of book as you begin to talk about carter. Us . Would you like to read a little . If you will let me. This was a moral issue as a necessity of conservation he held deere to that by use of Simple Pleasures having grown up during the greatndoor depression he worked side by side of the family farm for his inauguration he shunned traditional formal attire georg. And morris suit he purchased off iraq one week before indentl georgia. He preached we have learned that more is not necessarily better it even hour great nation has recognized limits that we can answer all tlems were solved all problems but we cannot afford to do everything. Host that really says it so well. This is a guide who saw everything in those moral terms and the Energy Crisis was among those. He believed that from a moral standpoint and from a Foreign Policy that during the era of the embargo i believe is up thatl that 42 percent it is mindful to make the country vulnerable sort and as i stayed there is aon moral ethical component that we are deeply committed to of it said elwood to steal any of your questions but going against a grade of americans it is this attitude thattal cost the white house east said chile. He faces monumental problems obeyed not have been able to win anyway. We all tend to remember the speech because he would not have used a french word. [laughter] but it is in this speech that he delivers with the gas line he urges americans to cut back iran says basically we have posters as a for the first time a majority of americans aretu more pessimistic thanll optimistic about their future and carter really takes this 01. In and basically we can restore faith in ourselves if we embrace the Energy Crisis to change our ways. S so piling up goods and consuming more. The 29 yearold pollster thee to present the findings that they found them chilling and and dangerous. And carter was sympathetic and was said a moral decline of goodwill and common purpose. Ifying in the Energy Crisis magnified that. You can see this with carters remarks so with the gas line starts on the west coast he starts the of warning than iowa it is the beginning of his reelectionde hs campaign to go 20 miles out of the way there is gas lines and he says its a courageous way the American Public you have to change ito, is that what the public wants to hear. Host if you dont mind if we will just back up on this because it is worth pointing out as we have alluded to when he took office, it could not have the wholeworst moment because the weather in the the northeast it is the coldest winter people have experienced and for ever with heating oil at a p premium but chris river is an outsider with the distinctive disadvantage we know that to be true that jimmyof the people here in georgia love to think about jimmy carter they werewashingtoe outside they did not understand that washington and environment at all. That is true and certainly works for carter in a certain way because that allows them to kraft this incredibly Ambitious Energy by proposal that nobody had been advised to do dash he wanted to do everything like to go deal with the speakerd. Th of the house it is the size of five phone books putan together and he thought i can solve the problem i will balance of constituents with Ted Washington but i do want to add it simply wasnt that he did to received good vice fag or that he was stubborn in his existence. Lets talk about that how the Republican Party wasal shifting ground because of the Energy Crisis. So how did things play out for the democrats in the middle of this . Period there was no love lost between carter and to go deal. Ough and so for tip oneill a democratic president to issue austerity that existed under ford was ane abomination and really it was an unforgivable because people were experiencingt real pay and inflation was not the problem that they wanted to solve it was a stagnating economy they wanted the Public Works Program in solutions for the Energy Crisis so people could not afford it, and then they needed to supplement their income so that was one but it is also a time period when southerners were still part of the Democratic Party and that included all of the south and southwest Energy Producers so carter was caught between two groups the and the Oil Producers have the same point of view as the republicans of lets get rid of these regulations we can produce more if we dont then the solution comes in a bestselling song in the y summer of 78 called freezing yankee that was a solution to the problem. [laughter] and bumper stickers in them louisiana freeze them alive. [laughter] said you had these different, ao groups ben another groupch also vying for cartersvironmeni attention was thederstandings environmentalists everyone had different understandings of the Energy Problem and a solution and the environmentalist even thoughdi he was sympathetic to their t agenda didnt do enough so he is the president to dodge 32 solar panels on the roof and then promises by the year 2000 we would get 20 percent of our energy from renewable is the for that was not enough. Everybody was suspicious of everybody in the American People particularly were continuing to be suspicious that the prices were artificially produced by the oil industry trying to back up prices which contributed to their pressure foryou d control of pricing controls a you described in the book a tv commercial that a group of Energy Action had which writing describes this pretty quickly. This is a commercial as you say the vast majority majority, threequarters of americans believe the energy cal crisis was a big oriel conspiracy from big oil even though foreign events had precipitated you could not imagine the inheritors of that, rockefeller were not allpowerful so they were certain that the oil tankers were waiting offshore until prices went up and then delivered but most americansal o believed so it was hard to propose Real Solutions for carter that generated support among liberals for continuing controls of the industry so Energy Action is a liberal group sort id like ralph nader and he works for kennedy on the hill and financed by people like paul newman and Robert Redford this was the hot issue of the day per regulation. Regulation. [laughter] so they run a commercial called muddying in which somebody is dressed in arabbto garb with a gasoline nozzlehen holding the driver up only then to reveal the clothes come off it is a big oil time. Executive so that was the popular perception at the time. This is all from carter and his team in the white house trying to do with it is completely overwhelmingne, te and then a couple things happen. Then the midterm Elections Come along democrats retain the majority but it is clear theyre losing seats and you say there is a panic at the white house . Yes. Seat kicks it into high gear host were here in georgia we should point out who won the seat in congress . Newt gingrich on his third time. They are looking at this know, ay see the election returns that really says they are dispirited and they have no confidence in the future it is a crisis if you want to lead the country speak to them in this is when carter starts to listen but that was november 78 matches perfectly with the iranian revolution which will destabilize the oil markets. They see a disaster coming by january 79 there will be no good outcome. And there isnt. S the iranian revolution is depose the ayatollah comes in that is when the panic really hits hard in some ways when i read your booke the truckers strike blocking the highways this itsef crisis manifest itself in a much more dramatic and scaryof. Way. It is summertime first of all,. People are just hanging downot some see it as a party but this is one of carters advisers and the temperature is surprising of the gasbbings,e lines there are stabbings, shootings to result in death, people are stealing gasoline out ofof other peoples cars toor siphon it off so they are buying blocks for their gas tanks and a sense of chaos has broken loose. Host what about pennsylvania . It goes up in flames. The quintessential symbol of all progress goes up inort flames and what really neck defies the shortages in the sense of chaos is there is a truckers strike there is also one in 74 but they dodo it again because the kid to get diesel have to stop every 25 miles to fill up the cost is through the roof of their suffering under the 55mile per hour speed limit so a day go on strike in order to make sure all truckers comply, they set up snipers they dropped bricks from overpasses, and again there are deaths a and forlings and interstate commerce comes to a standstill for manys is industries. What is interesting is that 1. You tell us and which half of all americans that they were most concerned about but only onethird said it was energy. A that is a little bit later. But we will not go to that i apologize. I am sorry. Ca but what does happen isnd carter gives another speech he has an opportunity to have been inspiring words to help the American People, thi throw. This situation did is unfolding there is the truckers strike that goes up in flames people have signs that say more gas and things that rhyme with gas we are not supposed to say on television. [laughter] no gas my ass. [laughter] we are adults. There is an utter since the of collapse of credit this moment carter put its solar panels of the white house so this does nothing to stop the breakdown and then right at this moment that contributes to inflation opec announced is a massive price increases so now it seems like it is all over again so one of the s advisers says heres your chance what you should do. Blade opec. Alternati you want to have a mass of alternative energy bill you want to masstransit blade c opec in carters and i will not do that speech. I will try to do this stuff that theyre talking aboutout ts because i believe they dont talk about a larger crisis of confidence we will lose a people so he goes on television at camp david everybody is wondering what is going on and he says to people we have a crisis of going confidence. He blames that carter responded by criticizing the country for self indulgent san overconsumption because of the optimism about themerism, future they turned to mindless consumerism to many ted to worships of indulgence given identity is no longer defined by what one does we discovered quoting things tend consuming things does not satisfy the of longing for meaning. Weeks while. Let me throw something out a couple weeks ago the university of arkansas history professor talked with me about his book oned lbj in the Great Society in we discussed lb joe went with such extraordinary dreams and visions for the country more than anything else the vietnam war as an unintended consequence with the Great Society programs brought him down. So in many ways it is a tragic story and we will let people read your book but as we come to the end of our time there is a tragic element to what carter has to go through in the white house as the man who comes into office with tremendous hopes and theyre moral be. Belief the of what americaca is and could be but yet the iranian hostage crisis and so many other things really were unsolvable problems. He declared sovereignty Energy Crisis early on in the administration this is where it ends up. He is so far down in the polls that this moment because people are so dismayed and a greek because they believe it is an artificial crisis they want washington to do something. Coms they want washington to bring the Big Oil Companies down and that is not what jimmy carter tells them he explains the situation as he sees it to lay out a plan but a dozen house political traction and there is a real tragedy to that. If you were writing this as a novel in he was a character you would look for some resolution maybe not a happy ending but the bigger point it is almost as if there is no ending other than carter like nixon and ther did not solve the problem it is still there. With a couple of finalis things one is when he gave ate speech he had advisers telling him it will be thrown right back at you. This is what happens when reagan runs for office 1980 and he uses the energy w crisis as exhibit a in the failure of washington to solve a problem never has government try to do so much to achieve so little that is carters handling of the Energy Crisis. If makes carter incredibly vulnerable gives reagin momentum than the other thing that happens is the failure to embrace conservation. To i should say, let me interrupt myself, he did accomplish a lot of things so we should say that. The same way of lbj. Ent for example, he passed the Clean Air Act amendment and the antistrip mining bill and protected much of the land in alaska if he had that mentality and encourage Public Policy to improve Energy Efficiency so a lot did happen. He was able to establish some goals but with the story tragically ends up not unlike lbj is for policy. 73, so by 79 you dont see this then but especially with a massive opec increase that we are literally being held hostage and then we do the following fall and as this woman to chefs to blame that arab sheikhs that build up momentum for more aggressive u action in the middle east but ultimately comes to introdu fruition. By introducing reagan youou bring us full circle with your pieces starting at a point with george h. W. Bushg going to texas living in the country with limited resources postwar euphoria there is nothing americans can do government will take care of us republicans and democrats believe that. We go through all of this in the oil crisis is the huge part of it we come to Ronald Reagan who says no. Problem. Government is not the answer to your problems government is the problem in that completes the fascinating transformation that you write about. So one of the things he promises is get rid of the 55mile per hour speed limit he hated that. People may not remember but how dare you tell us. Data as of my father got so many speeding tickets. This [laughter] summit reagan makes a promise because that is not who we are we dont have too live in the age of limits so what you see have been by the time george h. W. Bushsh is president of reliance on up imports have started though the embargo is over 50 percent and we have moved away from conservation and c fear of dependents to set to lung dash concern with security doubled then culminate in the intervention in the gulf. We have time for just a few questions if you have them we have microphones b double sides. Want you can ask meg jacobs but if not, i have one added question had you put it ingh this into context especially with donald trump . I take you have written about that. Yes. Out the point of donald trump is simply to say as outlandish as he sounds, actually it echoes along the trend especially with the Republican Party to solve our Energy Problems through military interventionn through the middle east. World. Today we are living in a very different world and fracking has changed that calculus. Ow how . Because now we appear to be living with abundance and low prices. In fact, the concern in the middle east is now one terrorism more than oil because we perceive ourselves to be doing okay and that regard and what happened with so much of the momentum through the Environmental Movement movement, conservation, solar energy, and not unlike today when you have a decline in Energy Prices that the question is can we sustain our interest . Even as people talk us were almost to the point of no return with climate change, the question is how much to Americans Care verses the same concern of having a full tank . The book is called panicor at the pump the Energy Crisis and the transformation of american politics in the 1970s fakes for taking us on a fascinating journey. Your research and your w thinking through what of happened i marvel that as i have read this book thinks for joining me for the conversation and sharing it with the audience here at the jimmy carter president ial library. [applause]n she will be signing copies of her broken the library. [inaudible conversations] booktn cspan2 with particularly for some relatives in the u. K. With the roman empire that is something very inyourface about the romans and britain. You go around the country use the loads because that is the roman word you can see the social geography of britain is still configured so why is london such a stupid place . Because it was convenient for them so you live the world but it gets more complicated than that. One way we could do the same about germany of course, our identity as an from infrastructure but conflict between us san the romans and how it works of the head of any western european are we thinking we are the inheritors . There is an edgy standoff when we think of the cultural identity with a warrior queen flowing hair thousands and thousands of roman soldiers also has a britannia but she is a rebel and a terrorist in the independence free. With the paradox of the relationship because what it says she said dont worry because your descendants youll do more than the romans ever did. [laughter] uturn independent Freedom Fighter into the ancestor of the British Empire with an appalling sleight of he and the. [laughter] so for me it is it infrastructure breaking graf has formed western identity is not so much infrastructure but in the conversation that we still have with the romans about how politics and civics work and. As you can demonstrate the audience is much more receptive to them what their british thinks about. [laughter] the american audiences with the idea how to create community and what we are really arguing is roman debates not so anything deep but what it is to be a citizen and what rights a citizen has or liberty after the extent that it is our problem as much as the romans it is justifiable or necessary to suspend the of liberty of the citizen in the interest to protect the state of homeland security. We are talking about that in ways that the romans had thought. And good evening