Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On Showdown 20151003

And technical journals are the endall, but will has received four showdown for stars, they are from journals and magazines across this prestigious literary world. Star reviews from publishers weekly, kirkus review, the Library Journal and booked list. The atlantic magazine said it best, will hagood has rehabilitated Thurgood Marshall with showdown. Hagoods decision to focus on marshalls confirmation hearing proves ingenuous. We at the Lincoln Theater conducted well as our first inductee into our walk of fame. Boy, were we smart. Will also did our first fundraiser for the lincoln with the publication of the sammy davis junior book. Patrick laszewski in the library, we met, i cant remember at the office about four or five years ago, i do recall. But, i think what the library has done in addition to this one city, one book and bring the Community Together is extraordinary. Will and i were talking about family members who traditionally have not read and each of us gave our brother a copy of showdown. Each of our brothers just engaged the book like nothing else and we had a conversation, different from any other we have had before. This is the magic that will hagood has provided for this community, this state and this nation and i think when the world and america and it said this is the journey that we went through to arrive at the crossroads we are today, this book brings us to a place that i think we can engage in a discussion about race where no other had before. Ladies and gentlemen, we present to you mr. Will hagood. Set back. Relax. Pulled on and enjoy the show. Thank you emily and times over. [applause]. [applause]. [applause]. [applause]. For some reason the older i get the less i mind people saying extravagant, beautiful lovely things about me. [laughter] i find that somewhat peculiar im going to have more to say about larry james in a moment. When i was growing up, in this neighborhood going to munro Junior High School right down the street me my sister would walk to School Together and those were the days when everyone had a transistor radio. You could hold it up to your ear and listen or put it in your pockets. There was a very catchy tune from those days that i remember. It started out with spoken verse and then it went into song and it starts like this hey man, i hear you pretty good on your feet. Well, dont you know theres a dance down market street. Hey, hey, theres going to be a showdown. Showdown and i have been humming that a lot, even if i did leave my band back in dc. And evening like this wouldnt be possible without a Great Coalition coming together, organizations across the city have bonded and merged to make this night possible and to bring a native son home. Im very mindful that great people, great organizations are represented here tonight starting with a and bill connor, Susan Bradford man, she is wearing a dazzling dress. I took note of that. Of the Lincoln Theater, dimitris neely of the king arch complex, the Columbus Public Library and, of course, the mayors office. I cant cite everyone individually, but there are some people here who i would like to acknowledge. I will say a Little Something about you and then you can stand up. Some of you know that i teach at my alma mater, Miami University in oxford, ohio. The lady who signs my paychecks is here, so why wouldnt i introduce her first cracks. [laughter] she is the provost of Miami University, phyllis callahan. [applause]. Dear friend of mine, used to protect me on these rough streets back in the day, many of you know him as a chairmanship prizefighter, mondello johnson. The Athletic Director of the Ohio State University, eugene smith. I think he is here. [applause]. One of the great attorneys of this country, alex shumate. [applause]. Guy i used to talk with a lot about sports and life, jerry saunders. [applause]. Last year, i received the Rosetta James foundation award, named after a alabama civil rights pioneer. Shes 90 years young. Rosetta james is here and i would like her to stand up. She is the icon of American Civil Rights movement. [applause]. Shes up in the balcony. Sheet marched with Martin Luther king jr. [applause]. I cant tell you how touched i was when she called me and said she was to come. Guy who i grew up with on the north side of town, dear friend of mine, we talked a lot about Thurgood Marshall the past five years, bob miller. [applause]. I studied at miami under this professor. He was in the Civil Rights Movement. He marched with john lewis, the selma hero. He was also jailed for marching in the movement. Rick ohlmeyer. [applause]. His wife is here. She served me some mighty fine meals during my stay thus far, sumo meyer. [applause]. A writer cant dream of a moment like this when their book has been selected in a Citywide Program to be read by everyone at the same time. I will be coming back in a month with a some multiple multiple multiple what do we used to call those . Yeah, multiplechoice questions. I cant thank the library enough where i used to go on saturday mornings with my 50 cents. There was never a car in my family, but i could go to tokyo, i could go to paris. I could go to memphis, tennessee. I could go to chicago if i could get myself into the library. The genius behind all that has been pat liszewski cock. [applause]. I will be returning to the city im going on a 24 city book tour and i will be returning to the city october 21 , to appear at the Ohio State University. That invitation came from the vice provost of diversity in the inclusion at the Ohio State University and her name is sharon davies. [applause]. My cousin just living today from atlanta, charles nichols. [applause]. My two cities sisters, diane and wanda are here. [applause]. My very swab brother is here from los angeles, harry hagood. [applause]. This is a man who i got to know some years back because i wrote a story about him, chief james jackson. [applause]. I teach media journalism and selma miami and the chairman of the apartment plays a large role in getting me to leave war zones in journalism and he is here, doctor richard campbell. [applause]. Davis harrison has done a lot of this community of social justice issues. He is president at columbus state college, david harrison. I think he is here. [applause]. Donna james absolutely wonderful. [applause]. It was great that the king center honored africanamericans , judges this year and there legacy honorees. There was a man in this community, who when he graduated from college and wanted to teach and they sent all the africanamerican teachers down to champion Junior High School, but there were too many teachers down there. So, he switched gears and went to Ohio State University law school. He launched his career into law. I had a chance to get to know him. The first letter he ever wrote to me was about the brown the board education decision. He authored one of the last great legal decisions in this country, link to brown versus the board of education. The decision that the segregated the School System in this city in 1974. He became the first africanamerican federal judge from this community. I think every africanamerican lawyer owes him a great that that. You can please name the same paragraph as Thurgood Marshall and you would be proud to do so. His name, judge robert m duncan. [applause]. I have traveled from washington dc with a book for him and his family. His wife, shirley duncan, is here and im so honored by her presence. I would like her to stand up. [applause]. Doing my research for Thurgood Marshall book showdown i came across a letter from a lady named barbara ross noted i was in arkansas, this is seen archives of senator john mcclellan, who was one of the segregationist senators who did not want Thurgood Marshall to extend to the high court. By the second day of the hearing it was thought that marshalls nomination was in trouble because he was being grilled so harshly. A young lady wrote a letter and she concluded her letter to her arkansas senator with these words chances are that the nomination will be turned it down. Color doesnt make the person, senator, it is character that makes the man. One of these days, senator, the president of the United States will be a negro. Years later a kid born in this city in 1954, the year of thurgoods legal march, became a writer and that kid now a grown man would find himself rolling through the fields of journal sin from charleston, west virginia, to pittsburgh to boston massachusetts, to the washington post, in washington. The kid, now a man and a writer had an inkling that the senator from chicago, in 2007, might win the 2000 election, so the kid who became the man and the writer went out and tracked it down and africanamerican butler Stefan Rochon, after the story that the kid born in 1954, wrote , the kid who became the man who became the writer, Stefan Rochon was hired as a Technical Advisor to the movie that the hollywood movie producers started to make in 2012. One day, Stefan Rochon was in the white house. He bumped into the negro president who barbara ross had predicted would be in the white house. [applause]. That president asked Stefan Rochon what he was up to. He said i have just been hired to be the Technical Advisor to the butler, and i stopped in the white house today because i wanted to get a little gift for the writer, for will hagood who wrote the story. The negro president who barbara ross predicted would win turn on his heels and went back into his office and came out. He said he had something in a blue leather case encased in velvets. He gave it to Stefan Rochon who said, thank you mr. President. I know for a fact will is going to love this. The president said, i think you will love it too. The gifts, but the kid born in the year thurgood in 1954 received from the negro president who barbara ross had predicted is a president ial ink pen that i have taken from lock and key in my home and brought here tonight and signed every book that you will leave here with this evening. [applause]. Nothing, nothing is more personal than deciding who youre going to dedicate your book to. Showdown has been dedicated to two people. Both, like Thurgood Marshall, are trained in law. They are residents of this city. I wanted to do a Little Something special for these people. So, this first person received the first copy of this book from the Printing Press and i also went to a jeweler in washington, because i wanted a goldplated nameplate designed to put in front of the book. When i asked the jeweler how much it was going to cost and he told me i said maybe i should go to post its. But, i didnt go with the postit. I went with the gold plate plated nameplate and it says the first copy of this book showground by will hagood to roll off of the Printing Press is exclusively for michael b coleman. [applause]. I would like the mayor to come up and accept his book. [applause]. Thank you very much. Thank you. I have always wanted to feel like a mayor. [laughter] this has given me an opportunity to do so because i have written a citation to go along with the book. [laughter] i gave myself the power to issue a citation. [laughter] this is mayor colemans. It says two mayor coleman, in the dark days of legal segregation in state sponsored terrorism the black sharecroppers and their families of the deep south gave out upon the fields they worked. They were looking for help. They wanted to dream. So, a man arrived on the scene and began marching into the state in federal court houses throughout the south. He began changing the laws. He wanted rights for those in the fields and it writes for those in the biggest cities to. Some of these people began referring to him as moses. His name was actually Thurgood Marshall. As laypeople, we do not need to anoint manner woman a saint. But, it helps us to know our heroes have saintly ambitions. Since you first took public office, you have sought to lift up like Thurgood Marshall, your vision has helped all races and creeds and colors. Thurgood marshall once a set of someone he greatly admired, you didnt wait, you took the bull by the horns. Indigent wait for the time, he made them. As it has been noted in this midwestern city and beyond, you broke barriers. You didnt wait for the times, you made them. You have earned your place in the collective memories of so many. As you prepare to leave the city hall, consider this book that has been dedicated to you in mighty wave from Thurgood Marshall in a literary ballentine from a writer born in the very city you have led. Will hagood, september 29, 2015. [applause]. [applause]. The next book dedication reads the second copy of this book, showdown by way good hagood to roll off of the Printing Press is exclusively for larry james. I would like larry james to come up. [applause]. Larry, with the power invested in me walls came tumbling down. But history, as we know, turns rather beautifully. Now there are many buildings even in airports with the name 3rd marshall. Since 2,001 larry james has had his name grace a law firm in downtown columbus. Brown and james. [applause] yet even with that distinction, time and time again larry james has returned to the trenches. Fighting in the name of justice and freedom. He has won so many of his showdowns larry james is the target marshals kind of lawyer. Someone once asked Thurgood Marshall about his personal successes. I dug way deep, he said. In the universe of law, art, books, and philanthropy you have set a glorious standard this book is dedicated to you because, like thurgood, you have dug way deep. Institute in theaters september 292015. [applause] [applause] one of the things that president Lyndon Johnson said after he nominated Thurgood Marshall, and after Thurgood Marshall was confirmed he said, i want everybody to be able to look across the breakfast table in the mornings and no now that her son or daughter can become a Great Supreme Court justice or a great judge. The mother the mother was one of those ladies. She looked across the breakfast table and poured a dream and her son. I am very proud to prepare to have a conversation with judge marbling who will inject one more of those seeds that sprouted in the glow of the great men mighty Thurgood Marshall. Please come to the stage. [applause] right here. Thank you. Have a seat. And now for the book, theyre have been in excess of 20 biographies written about Thurgood Marshall. So what will the impetus for showdown canine, which tells marshall story through the context of the confirmation process . Well, while there have been multiple books on marshall, with this book i am hoping that well, someone oncewell, someone once came and said that they were going to make a song, that they were going to every record a song that julie gillese has made. Duke said dont. He had closed the door on that song. So i am hoping that people will pick up my book if someone comes to them with an idea to write a book about Thurgood Marshall they will say dont. Wil haygood close the door on that. [applause] what i think, though, what is really was a magnet to me was that marshall had hearings that were five days stretched over 12 days, and his nomination set a louisville for six weeks. Before marshall the Supreme Court have been all right all white. For him no nominees hearing had lasted more than a day. So with southerners leading the charge i knew that there was great drama in that, and i wanted to figure out why that happened and why they wanted to stop Thurgood Marshall. And he told the beautifully. Excuse me . [laughter] okay. Against the backdrop of the confirmation proceedings, wh them about that. But it is also a very poignant story about the relationship between two great men, the relationships between thurgood and johnson. So why dont you tell us why you chose that particular approach and use that as a subtext . These were two men who were somewhat poor in their youth. Neither was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. And so when your for i think it sucks inside of you. I think it does something to you and gives you a quicker gear into people, especially if you are inclined to help people Thurgood Marshall as this naacp lawyer went to texas to fight the Voting Rights case. In 1948 blacks were being written for the most part. And marshall took the case all the way to the Supreme Court and one, smith the all right. The young Senate Candidate started winning election after election, and that was Lyndon Johnson. So you can argue i know some people think it is the other way around, but you can argue why Thurgood Marshall, no Lyndon Johnson because with the help of the blacks in taxes they sending Lyndon Johnson back to the senate, and in the senate to gain seniority and he became , as we all know, senate leader. The reason that Lyndon Johnson felt so comfortable around blacks, and texas fdr made certain of that. Yes, he appointed Lyndon Johnson to head the National Youth Program Throughout the state of texas, and Lyndon Johnson would get in a car and driver on the state and visit blacks in houston and dallas and san antonio, and he would constantly tell them that one day things are going to be better. And i wont forget you. And i think that scarred him in a very humane way. We are going to get to Lyndon Johnson and why he was hellbent on the marshall nomination. First, i want to have some personal context for thurgood. He was raised in segregated baltimore. And you gave us a great glimpse. You feel that made him the biggest. They from his father, with anybody, racial epithets. Thurgood marshall had a job. One day he hopped on the Railway Railway car and he was told to go stand in the back. He said, well, mr. Conductor, i cant because these hats might fall out of my arm and get squished and then i would have to pay for them. If someone argued with them, shoved him, he fell down, some of the police, and young, and young Thurgood Marshall, 19 years old was arrested. And he thought that was wrong. Of course it was wrong. The hat store owner fortunately came down and bailed Thurgood Marshall out so he had been jailed as a young man for no reason except the color of his skin and that resonated with them. That resonated a lot coupled with the fact that his father used to like to take him in and out of state, federal court houses. Because thurgood learned at a young age that the law subjugated blacks. He got it in his mind, i need to make the law elevate blacks. And so he was constantly fighting the active subjugation against the hope and promise to elevate. And he got much of the impetus about how the lock and elevate from a young dean at howard university. Yes. Charles hamilton houston. A great lawyer, harvard trained, came to resuscitate the program. Right. How important was that relationship in setting the trajectory for thurgoods career . And tell us about the impact of the soldier the to and a number of 33 to the south, thurgood. Dean houston was a very formal man, very sophisticated. He wanted to go down south a look at the School System. He did not want to go by himself. He was afraid, with good reason. And so he asked this tall, strapping, onetime student of his. Who had graduated. Yes, he did. He asked marshall if you would like to ride in a car and go visit School Houses and take notes and file a report to get back the naacp headquarters in new york city. They were both done at the stringent conditions of this glasses, and many southern communities the black children would have to walk 2 miles to school and had no buses. The white children had buses that were brandnew. They made notes of this. They take photographs. They found file their reports. They were often scared. They were sometimes threatened. But they survived. Marshalls mother and father were worried sick that he was down south. Now, what is interesting about it is, they did not personally witness acts of violence and brutality that characterize some of the details that you set forth so eloquently. Did i say that right . Set forth so eloquently in the book. Yes. But you talk and praise the violent history of Race Relations in the south and talk about, you call it statesponsored terrorism earlier. Notes domestic terrorism is the same thing, but what impact of that have on thurgood has he traveled throughout the south and his quest for justice . And how did he handle it . One of the Amazing Things was witnessing the amazing bravery of Thurgood Marshall. And the lawyers the trouble with them. Yes. He would often get to a town in the local black farmers would take turns with the shotguns. They would have to guard him through the night. He was the nations best hope. He was a oneman crusade. He had the lawyers whom he was recruiting and helping him file, but naacp legal strategy. Go for healing and file a case in tickets of the Supreme Court and go over here to texas and florida and michigan. Not all of these cases were filed in the south. There were deals of north as well. The book is shaped around the five days of the hearing. Hearings, you had to give them context which is why he told various many stories. Exactly. And i wanted to take the reader outside of the hearing room because hearings can be somewhat civil. Thurgood marshalls were not the civil, but this was not covered. Marshalls send it to stammer went to North Carolina they were powerful. In the senate they had a huge staff. There were also called by the la times a pack of wolves. Yes. A pack of wolves. It was a fair characterization. Yes. In the la times. But getting back to his travel, tortured, its not violent. He explains that in the book. I was struck by the circumstance of harriet and harry more who as it turns out were the 1st naacp members killed in the line of duty. Right. These were dear friends of Thurgood Marshalls. They were husband and wife, Voting Rights activists, came home one night. It was actuallyit was actually christmas eve. They went to bed. While they were away some klansman had stuck dynamite under the house. Early on Christmas Morning the house blew out. Harry more died immediately. Harriet more was rushed to the hospital. Thurgood marshall had slept in the guest bedroom several times. Now, he could have been in that house that night. Marshalls harriet, her daughter who i interviewed, she told me that she had been on a train trying to get home for christmas. She was seated in the segregated section. Got word to her that her family was trying to find her. When she stepped off the train on Christmas Day she looked around and did not see her mother and father and thought that was mighty strange. She saw some relatives walking toward her and said, where his mom and dad. I said, we have to talk to you. She said, no, where is mom said, no, where is mom and dad. They said, well, evangelize, or sorry, but your father is dead, and your mother is holding on. She wants to see you at the hospital. The doctors told the family that if harriet more could hang on for seven days that they thought she would make it. She died on the 6th day. It was an interesting postscript, fastforward to 1967 with events line. My goodness. When i was at her house interviewing her over the course of four hours, before i got ready to leave she said,said, well, can you come to my kitchen and help me get something down from the top shelf . I said, sure. And as i was walking from the living room to the dining room, ii stopped in my tracks. There was a big oil painting , gigantic, maybe five, maybe 4five, maybe 4 feet by 5 feet. And i stopped in my tracks. It was not an oil painting of her father, harriet more or her mother. It was an oil painting of Thurgood Marshall. And i said, zero, my god. Why didnt you tell me that this painting was hanging here . And she said, zero, i dont know why. On the day that Thurgood Marshall was confirmed a friend of mine in florida you how close he was to me and my family. They had this oil portrait. They had it painted in ships to me. And, i mean, i was just stunned. Here i was sitting there for four hours and Thurgood Marshall was right on the other side of the wall. Maybe he was listening. Im sure he was proud of the work that you were doing. As a resulta result of his work with the Legal Defense fund, and he was with the defense fund for two years as an associate. From 38 to 61 he ran the Legal Defense fund. You know, while he was there , if doctor king was the warm and spiritual leader of the Civil Rights Movement Thurgood Marshall certainly was the architect. It was a sterling advocacy for the Supreme Court. A 129 cases. Now, once he was at the Legal Defense fund, would it be fair to say that he had trained his sights on dismantling separate but equal and obliterating pussy . And we all no the brown decision. But Thurgood Marshall was a man who spent much time in the south battling other issues. Many came before brown. And you highlight the diversity of cases, the breadth of his practice. Why would that be so important . He could have written a book about the defense leading up to brown. For the simple reason to show the versatility. He was a highbrow lawyer. He was also a lawyer with his feet squarely on the ground. He went to tennessee one time. There was this was in 19 world war ii era. There was a little, smalltown, lawrenceburg, tennessee. Hello. The cliff notes version. And so, this mother wanted to take her radio back to the store. Her son, her africanamerican son went to the store, and the mother said this radio doesnt work the clerk, young white male said, youre alive. You probably broke it. And the sun looked out at the clerk and sees as if he was unsure the somebody had just called his mom a liar. The mother said, im not lying, you are. The clerk slapped the black soldiers mother. The soldier unleashed a bunch that could only be summarized as an active sweet thunder. [laughter] and it knocked the white clerk through the window. And by nightfall the city had been engulfed in a right and many blacks, and some whites were shocked. They called Thurgood Marshall to the rescue. Marshall came and got most of those who had been convicted off, one night marshall was getting out of town with a couple other lawyers who had worked on the case, and they were stopped by the local sheriff and they told him that he had been speeding. He said he wasnt. They. They told him to keep going, then they stopped him again. They stopped in the 2nd time to check for alcohol. Drinking the 2nd time. You been drinking. And then they stopped him a 3rd time and said, you can drive your car anymore. Let this alet this person drive. And then they went about 15 yards in the car, and assure stop them, told everybody for marshall to get out and finally marshall to get out, that he was being arrested for drunk driving. A Tennessee Town river, when blacks were lynched they were thrown in the river, the families would have to go get them. The sheriff, the three sheriffs put Thurgood Marshall molecular car and started heading off to the duck river. The lawyers who were out of the car quickly found another because there were news been following them too. The sheriffs desk your they would be found out, so they took him on into town and he survived that night by the skin of his teeth. Was also interesting was the share stopped him, couple of our patrol cars in the vicinity. Yes. He did not respond, did not intervene. Right and they did not so had to get out of the car. Theythey wanted him to walk to jail. But he was smart enough to no the once he started walking away from them he was going to shot in the back. You know,know, im not walking over there by myself. Youve got to work with me. Im a prisoner. He lived long enough for you to write the book. [laughter] in line with that, marshall was very canny. There was no foundation, no federal department of civil rights thou to protect him or any part player. So Marshall Fund an Unusual Alliance with of all people jager. He was trying to chat up mr. Ho. He would bring back little knickknacks from the road for J Edgar Hoover who probably threw them in the trash can. There was a reasona reason that thurgood got along so well and other iconic places did not. What would you attribute that to . Hoover detested the ku klux klan. Klan. He detested them. So marshall would get these horrific stories about the clan and say, listen, mr. Hoover, i was out exploring. These klansman walking down the street, on this little town. Your fbi has to do something about that. And hoover would just get worked up. Where did you see him at . He would just get worked up, and marshall mingling. A lot of their relationship is based on the fact that marshall was a lawyer. Hehe believed in the rule of law. Hoover held himself out as one. Marshall is very careful not to label himself liberal. Marshalls scene was u. S. Constitution, and the truth needs no defense. Youre breaking the law. If you arrest blacks with no reason your breaking the law. It says you cant do that in the u. S. Constitution. Getting back to the harry in. More case. This will make will make a great scene in the movie. Marshall, after the harry, scuttlebutt from the clan that they were going to kill thurgood before he got a pound. So marshall knew not to call the airport because one of the clerks there might tell somebody marshall has a ticket for friday night. Them itself. Getting ready to slowly make his way to the airport. He had a friend whose driving. And these two beefy looking mean white start walking across. Now lee daniels. Go down the window. Mr. Marshall, jager auditions to get you through the airport and get you out of here safely. That is a great scene. [laughter] when they got to the airport and marshall and the two agents walked up, at the clerk, that flight, matter of fact, there are no more flights going back to washington tonight or tomorrow. One of the fbi agents leaned over the counter and got nose to nose with the clerk and said, you better find your seat on that next airplane for this man or else. An hour later Thurgood Marshall was in the air. It helps when the agent flashed his badge. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Lets talk about the rest of the book, the confirmation hearing. And as i read the book, and as i read about those five days of the hearing, especially in the context of the violent episodes that you portrayed throughout the from i cannot help but think that the behavior of the seven democrats was a metaphor to stifle black advancement. Did you mean to leave that impression with the reader . No. I am from North Carolina. There were some very real things that happened that made the seven or so were trying to stop Thurgood Marshall angry. First of all, Lyndon Johnson , they considered him one of them. He had signed the 1964 civil rights bill, which in johnsons mind that was the 1st nail in the coffin for White Supremacy. The 2nd now the coffin was the 1965 Voting Rights act. The 3rd now in the coffin of White Supremacy was the nomination of Thurgood Marshall to the us Supreme Court. Lyndon johnson sought to emancipate the entire american judicial system by nominating Thurgood Marshall to the highest court in the land. Now, in june of 67 when he announced. Or work before that there was not a Seat Available. So he had to use his Political Savvy some of the machinations of johnson politics to make that Seat Available. How do you make a Seat Available . Lyndon johnson was hellbent on integrating the us Supreme Court. But, as you noted, there is no seat. And so there was a justice on the court names tom clark ntn Lyndon Johnson had texas roots. And so Lyndon Johnson wanted to see tom clark. Tom. How are you doing . How is the wife . Tom, i wish i had a boy. I got all daughters. I love them dearly, but while. You got a boy. Go ramsey. And i tell you something, i want to make ramsey my attorney general. The day it, i cant do it because your on the high court, and they are going to accuse me of nepotism. But ii tell you something, tom, i know how much you love that boy, and i know how much that boy love you command i know any daddy in the country would be so proud to see his son ascends to the high court. But tom, my hands are tied. There is nothing i can do because there is no vacancy. Zero, lord, i wish there was a vacancy. And a day later i interviewed just as clarks daughter. A day later Justice Clark in fine health, lifetime appointment, any, hey everybody. Even i am tired of it. You know, i think it is time for me to take a long vacation, maybe play some golf. Take a trip around the world. Or travel. Travel. And so its happening. Tom clark stepped down. Lbj nominates Thurgood Marshall, doesmarshall, does not tell a single senator until the day of the nomination. A month later former Justice Tom Clark and his wife are sent firstclass tickets around the world on a factfinding mission. [laughter] nice way to retire. Yeah. What was the tone of the hearing from the outset . Did you get the impression they knew your research . Their research was done mostly through transcripts. Is our reason you relied exclusively on the transcription doing your research . Well, let me in case some of my miami students are out there. I went and tragic down as many people as i could. The spine of the book, as you rightly said, is the hearing. And the hearings from the outset allowed the media in there on the 1st day for 30 minutes and thats it. Get out. That would never happen today. And so they were not there. You asked me, how come some of these rancorous things did not make it into the media and to the newspapers of the day. The journalists were not there. Now, some of the senators, there were heroes, senator tidings of maryland, senator ted kennedy. Senator hart. Everett dirksen of illinois. These were great people who were fighting for marshall. Dirksen was one of the republicans. Yes, he was. And one of the things that they, during the hearings they try to they tried to paint marshall as not sophisticated about the u. S. Constitution. That was strong thurman. Right. We all no that he was one of the laws sophisticated ever to grace the halls of congress. [laughter] that was pretty bizarre. The simple fact that these were the leading figures, noted constitutionalist. And aa vacuous figure during the watergate hearings, but not so much so during these. Harvard law school. Sam ervin, he collected books. About 35,000 books. He went into bookstores all the time. Law books, books about history, books about the arts, books about religion. He had a ton of books command he was a very smart man, but nowhere in none of those books does sam ervin ever feel he found a line or paragraph that justified inequality for the black man. Well, how about im going to come back to something that a southern statesmen said, Strom Thurmond, and have between thurman and diesel and irving they set the tone for the hearing because it seemed that they did the lions share of the questioning of the justice. Well, yes. They have seniority. They had been in the senate a long time. And they were known as the old pools, thats right. James eastland in mississippi wants stop the hearings, got real quiet, and glared at Thurgood Marshall and said, mr. Marshall, do you like the white people of this town . Yes, that was the question. He was like a hammer fell because that was the question that all of the southerners wanted to ask because there mine said, you have upended our way of life. Right. Thurgood marshall was considered public enemy number one throughout the south. One man, white man in his late 60s by interviewed said, one of the Amazing Things is that when i was little in my committee our parents would tell us if we were bad. Thurgood marshall is going to come get you. [laughter] and this is a line in my book. He told me. He said, and i didnt even no what a Thurgood Marshall was. Lisle bowles did not all come to the table with clean hands. No. And that is to five. They had a murderous past you are stealing my thunder. Sorry. That is a fascinating little sideline. James eastlands father several months before eastland himself was born which the black men. Strom thurmonds father murdered a white man. So if you look at the book in terms of father and son, and the subtext Thurgood Marshall and his father, Strom Thurmond his father, James Eastland and his father, there is a lot of blood and tears and Family History that courses through the book. And so these were people who brought blood, family blood into the hearing room, and also, there was a subtext of interracial sex. The marshall hearings happened in that year of the famous loving case, loving, they were a couple in the state of virginia. You all have heard about this couple. There is a movie being filmed right now. Anyway, the lovings were arrested in the state of virginia in 1967. Just weeks before Thurgood Marshalls hearing started for sleeping in the same bedroom. The state of virginia several dropped the charges if you just leave the state. So they did and came to washington dc to live. And Strom Thurmond had asked marshall about the loving case. The same Strom Thurmond who was sleeping with his black maids, fathering a child and paying her hush money to not talk about it. And he was directing those comments at marshall. You are exactly right. Thurgood marshall, his 2nd wife. Particular senator irving made the argument that his opposition to Justice Marshall was not predicated on race. How much of that do you think was fact and how much was fiction . It was fact because there was no option. You had to be an activist lawyer to take down plessy v ferguson. Mark said the Marshall Marshalls of the constitution was not getting living document. Maybe the constitution adapts to the time. The framers wrote it in such term. As a judge i certainly believe. An organic document. Otherwise it would not survive this long. One of the senators asked marshall, how come you dont lie or doubt voluntary confessions . And Thurgood Marshall said, well, i had a client wants, black kid,black kid, he was beaten for six days and finally voluntarily confessed. [laughter] there is a little known fact that the hearings were not going that well, at least through the 1st three or four days, even through day five. And the hearings were dragging on. Lbj plotted an alternate strategy. They were not consecutive days. They were spread out. Twelve days, which means Thurgood Marshall and the white house were very nervous. On the 2nd day of hearings, president johnson was so nervous that he said, well, i might not make it. They are tough. Goodness gracious. And so johnson was hellbent on integrating the Supreme Court. So he sent William Coleman to the white house, and africanamerican lawyer. Worked with him on the brown case. And William Coleman did not know why he was being summoned. When he got theyre johnson told him, hey, look,him, hey, look, my man might not make it. I need you on standby. If he doesnt make it then im coming after you. He was taken aback. Why did johnson think coleman could get past it will marshall could not . He was a republican, and he was not known as a civil rights fighter in the vein of Thurgood Marshall. And he had been the 1st africanamerican ever to circle on the Supreme Court. Exactly right. But Justice Marshall was eventually confirmed 69 to 11. There are 20 votes unaccounted for. Twenty votes unaccounted for. Tell us about those 20 votes. Which is amazing. Senators, they go to washington to vote. For their constituents. That is there job. Women johnson started making some phone calls. Hey, senator. My goodness, i see where there is a bridge scheduled to go up in your hometown next year. One of my sources is telling me they might be putting your name on the bridge. Well, let me tell you like this. They might not be a bridge. There might not be no money for a bridge. If you vote. Sovote. So what you need to do when you come out of your house next tuesday, go down to the corner, go to a coffee shop, and sitting there all day long. [laughter] and 20 of them were so fearful of Lyndon Johnson that they did it. They did not vote. There were 20 abstentions. Yes. That is astonishing. I mean, johnson put the fear of god into the if they did not look now. Marshall was confirmed. Going against its congressman, Adam Clayton Powell was on the run. Had just been thrown out congress for ethics violations. That people were linking im Clayton Powell and Thurgood Marshalls name in the media. Writing letters to the senate. The president on the last of the hearing, detroit erupted a massive race riots. Same time, milwaukee. Milwaukee erupted in a massive riots. These rights, of course, were done because of decades of pain and a lack of opportunity. So many things happened aside from the very powerful southern man who did what marshall to make it. So many thing happens happened that made Thurgood Marshall were a. He had sleepless nights. Eastman drew it out, the more the riots raised, eastland drew it out because he and irvine and thurmond coming back to the mantra of soft on crime, miranda and as a result of you being soft on crime the inmates are running the institution in these cities whelp molotov cocktails were flying. Youre got up guy, adam late powell coined the phrase black power, so they were trying to draw some synergies between all of these writes. Do you think the white house sensing this up this game, put more pressure on the other senators including the democrats on the committee . Yes, the one thing the white house did was they got word out to voters, if you love Thurgood Marshall, write your senator. Start writing letters. It right letters to the white house. People started flooding the white house with wonderful letters. Some of these letters were hateful, but there were a good many of them that were very poignant. The justice served on the bench from 1967 to 1991, based on all of you have learned from your experians, do think he enjoyed his time on the bench as much as he enjoyed his time as an advocate . Well, i think that is a good question, but we have to wrap up for the book signing. I think that Thurgood Marshall and how important it was to have a gifted wonderfully talented lawyer on the Supreme Court who was black. Now, was he happy on the court or happier in his job when he was traveling around the country the court turned right shortly after he got on it, so, no, i dont think they were the happiest years of his life. He wrote a lot of distance, but you can read those unlearn on awful lot about Thurgood Marshalls legacy. He really was a giant. Im sorry 70 people have said that he got lost in history. And that this book sort of brings him yeah, rehabilitates them. He needs no rehabilitation. But, i will take the complement. [laughter] i have one more question. We may have a minute or two for questions from the audience. In fact, i know so, you have written a number of books now. You have written about Adam Clayton Powell, sammy davis junior, Sugar Ray Robinson, how does this fit in to the path beyond great africanamericans about whom you have written . What is thurgood that . I think my books are about american and African American history. They are told through a lens. All of these people are rebels with causes and their causes were freedom. That they could angle to shape your writing pen around. Its drama. These are great stories. Of that group, marshall was the supreme figure. Theres no doubt about it. But, you could see i die without them Clayton Powell, Sugar Ray Robinson and mr. Allen, the butler and powell. I think its best summed up like this, on the day marshall was nominated he was in the white house and there were three africanamerican butlers. They were serving tea and refreshments. One of those butlers was eugene allen. Mr. Allen lived and worked at sometimes a lot at 1600 pennsylvania avenue, the most powerful address. In the 50s, much of the 60s he could go back to his native virginia and quick try on his suit in a store. Now he is serving Thurgood Marshall. Thurgood marshall has seen how the law can subjugate blacks. Thurgood marshall, i know, looked at those black butlers in the white house and his mindset was im going to keep using the law to elevate your. That, to me, is why i love the majesty and mystery of history. [applause]. With that, thank you very much. [applause]. Lets thank will hagood for an engrossing conversation. We are running a bit long, but we have time for a couple of questions from the audience. I know you want to take this opportunity to talk to mr. Haygood, asking the question. We have microphones in the what i i always where you can ask a question of mr. Haygood. Speak now. All rights. Yes, we have someone. Come on down. Before him there was hastings , william hastings, how do you think because you heard about hastings kind of more radical than houston and by the way im the greatnephew of robert carter. Yes, great new yorker. His sister just died last year, 99 years old. Thank you for being here. Anyway, i am saying that because today i said to couple friends last week who would think we would be talking today what they talked about 60s when we were born where all the racism so forth and so on. Also, with the radical race theory of, you know, done with the lawyers with obama can you state your question, please. How do you think it would bring it forward with hastings socalled being radical, the big change and bring forth these guys to naacp . I think different lawyers have different strategies, different times in history. So, maybe that naacp lawyers now dont have to try as many of the kinds of cases that Thurgood Marshall tried because there are more civil rights lawyers doing that kind of work. Its all still needed very badly , as we know judge marley himself has loaded on some epic of Voting Rights cases, so i think each generation finds its own best lawyers. Last question of jury to how do Thurgood Marshall would think about rock obama and also with the things with Clarence Thomas . Thats a loaded question. I think if Thurgood Marshall was here today, he would be very happy about the first family and the white house. There is no doubt about that. Some things with certain things would paint him as well, but this is not the same country it was in 1967, and yet there are issues we have to address, theres no doubt about it. I will take the question over here. How are you . Hello. I would like to know that you have all the men on their and will you weed any women into your historical biographies . [applause]. [laughter] that was not the question i told you to ask. [laughter] im going to there are multiple there are multiple figures who i thinking about writing about next. Wait a minute now, let me sort of death defend myself. By Sugar Ray Robinson book, major figure in that book was selena horne because she was a dear friend of Thurgood Marshall , but that doesnt quite fully answer your question. [laughter] thank you for asking it. I would like to welcome a woman to the stage. Susan bradford. [applause]. Well, we just want to make sure that all of you enjoyed your evening with will haygood. [applause]. Thank you. And the wonderful judge marley. [applause]. Thank you. Again, as we close out this evening, we just wanted let you know that we will have a reception upstairs in the ballroom. Most of you who have your books now have a pass that is in there that will get you your entry to the reception. Will will also be there to personalize your books and i also want to make note that tonights event will be shown on cspan on sunday, october 4 october 4, 6 00 a. M. , 6 00 a. M. , so schedule your dvrs for that. Sunrise service. Sunrise service. I will let jack speak of that more about our conversations that will lead us up to our event coming up and also, if you want to purchase more books in the lobby you can do that at that time. [applause]. Thank you so much. The Lincoln Theater strives to make this place a forum for public discussion. On october 22,at 6 00 p. M. , we will hold a forum on 50 years of the Voting Rights act, a timely form that relates to what they were talking about tonight with the Voting Rights act being a key part of Thurgood Marshalls rice. This event will feature doctor herb asher, professor of Political Science at the Ohio State University. Eric seabrook, attorney and general counsel for former secretary of state and members of the black elected democrats of ohio, so this will be an Excellent Forum and all of our Community Conversations are free of charge. Doors open at 6 00 p. M. Thursday, october 22, and join us as we make the Lincoln Theater your preferred place for Community Conversations and now its time to go upstairs and get your book signing. Thank you so much. [applause]. Mr. Haygood will sign the books upstairs and we will also take pictures upstairs. We will join you at that time. [inaudible conversations] book tedious on twitter. Follow us to get publishing news, scheduling updates, author information and to talk directly with others during our ally that programs. Many of this years presence of candidates have written books to introduce themselves to voters. And to promote their views on issues. Heres a look at some the candidates of books. In his book, immigration warms, former Florida Governor jeb bush argues for new immigration policies and in the coming weeks he is releasing an ebook cataloguing his email correspondence or his time as governor. President ial candidate and neurosurgeon ben carson argues that a better understanding of the constitution is necessary to solve americas most controversial issues. In his latest book, a more perfect union. In against the tide, former rhode island governor who is declared for the democratic for president recounts his time serving as republican the senate. Former secretary state Hillary Clinton expectant heard time serving in the obama ministration in her book, hard choices. In a time for truth, texas senator ted cruz accounts his journey from a cuban immigrant sent to the u. S. Senate. Carly fiorina, former ceo of hewlettpackard is another declared candidate for president and in writing to the challenge she shares lessons she has learned. South carolina senator, Lindsey Graham released an ebook on his website, in my story, he details his childhood and career in the air force. Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee gives his take on politics and culture in god, guns, grips, gravy. In leadership in crisis, louisiana governor bobby jindal explains why he thinks conservative solutions are needed in washington carried Ohio Governor john kasich calls for a return of traditional American Values and stand for something. President ial hopefuls with books include democratic candidate and Harvard Law School professor Lawrence Levick and usa leicester land. George pataki is also running for president. In 1998 the former new york governor release pataki, a look back at his past. Kentucky senator randy paul calls for a Smaller Government and more bipartisanship in his latest book, taking a stand. Another entered into the 2016 president ial race is Florida Republican senator marco rubio and an American Dreams he outlines his plans to advance economic opportunity. Independent vermont senator bernie sanders, another candidate for the democratic nomination for president , his book, the speech, is composed of an eight hour long alabaster against tax custard will call her conservative president ial candidate rick sandstorm argues that Republican Party must focus on the working class in order to retake the white house. Businessman donald trump has written several bestsellers. Time to get tough, he criticizes the Obama Administration and outlined his vision of further american prosperity to read mr. Trump recently announced his intention to release and other Public Policy book this year. Former virginia senator, james webb, democrat his time serving in the military and senate and, i heard my country. Vice President Joe Biden announces candidacy and promises to keep as he looks back on his career politics. Finally, governor Chris Christie and former governor mark omalley and jim gilmore have announced a candidacies, but they have not released books. Book tv has covered many of these candidates and you can watch them online on a website at book tv. Org. Heres a look at some of the current bestselling nonfiction books and politics. In washington dc, topping the list plenty ladylike by senator Claire Mccaskill in which she shares stories from the time and politics. , National Book award winner joyce carol recalls how her childhood shaped her writing income of the lost landscape. In third, National Correspondent for the atlantic magazine and recent recipient of a Macarthur Foundation genius grant looks at the history and current state of black america and, between the world and may. In the senator nextdoor, amy clover sharp discusses her life and political career. In fracture, msnbc National Correspondent joe and read reports on the way racial issues have impacted president ial campaigns. Our look at the best selling nonfiction books in washington dcs politics continues with Pulitzer Prize winner margo jeffersons recount of growing up among the lack upperclass in her memoir, negro land. Bryan stevenson is not with just mercy in which he remembers his time as a young criminal defense lawyer. In the price, daigle rossa called the skits the aftermath of facebook founder mark suckers alleged to give one had a Million Dollars to reform Public Schools in newark new jersey. We examine endoflife care in the immortal. Thats a look at some the current nonfiction bestsellers according to politics and prose bookstores great many of these authors have or will appear on book tv and you can watch them on her website, book tv. Org. Nonbook tv in prime time, a couple of programs from the 20th annual popular book festival. First up army veteran, wes moore on his book the work my search for a life that matters