Author sean mcfate is next on booktv. The associate professor of the National Defense university and former military mercenary talks about the use of mercenaries in wars around the world today. He says we are headed towards a future that will resemble the middle ages hiring mercenaries to fight in wars is the norm. [applause] thank you. Thank you to Atlantic Council for hosting us and thank you for making at out on a less than auspicious weather day. This book is about the return of private military force International Relations today. I wrote this not simply as an International Relations scholar but also as a practitioner that i work for a Company Called dyncorp national for several years in africa and while i was working there i saw many press reports, many think tank reports, a lot of leftwing and rightwing kneejerk reaction to simply did not get what i thought the industry was right. The genesis of writing this book was not in any way a whistleblower book. It was really to paxton salience around a very polemical issue and that is the origins of way wrote this book. Now before you begin the actual argument i want to lay out a few disruptive facts from a decade of war. First is using for example 2010 numbers the pentagon spent 366 billion obligated to contractors. 54 of it budget. Seven times the u. K. Defense budget. When most people think about Armed Forces Honor and contractors they think 30 or so her arm. Thats not true. Only 10 to 15 during the wars were armed. This is the element of the contractor world that im focused on. The vast majority of contractors contractors, prepared trucks were linguist etc. But i focus on this. For me the private military industry is this. Those who kill or train others to kill. I dont use the euphemism in this book. If you look at contractor deaths in iraq and afghanistan youve and afghanistan you will see a stark trend emerge. In the beginning blew our u. S. Troops and rather contractors paid around 2009, 2000 they started to crisscross. You had more contractors killed in usg communist government as the numbers we know about. Companies dont always reveal this information by the way. One can ask is there a growing dependency on the u. S. For the private sector when it wages war . In world war ii only 10 to 15 of the workforce abroad diploid were contractors. In iraq it was 50 , a 1 1 ratio of troop to combat an even higher in afghanistan. Sometimes when i talk to foreign journalists or other experts abroad this is the question i get. A generation from now will the u. S. Be fighting its wars mostly with contractors 80 contractors . So one could ask why did this happen . When i talk to people in washington d. C. They dont expect this. Not just the experts. The problem at least in my opinion is the allvolunteer force cannot recruit enough people enough americans to go fight abroad to sustain two tenyear wars. Policymakers had a difficult dilemma on their hands. The first option they could do was just withdraw from iraq and afghanistan and avoid messy quagmires in the future. While there might be merit to isolationist policy there are many who would also argue the u. S. As a global superpower superpower and global responsibilities and it does not have the option to sit down during conflicts. The second is to assume u. S. Allies will fill all u. S. Gaps. Thats an unreasonable expectation or the third is having vietnam era conscription which would be political suicide. Before then i think you are seeing where im going with this is contractors offer a truly bipartisan policy solution that republicans and democrats in the white house both contract a great deal and there is good reason for this. Before you get into that i want to differentiate types of contractors. I have a typology in a book that lays out different types of contractors but for this purpose i focus on two. What are mercenaries . Mercenaries are autonomous private militaries they can wage offensive military campaigns for whomever he think of mercenaries in the middle ages in the 1990s. In africa theres a Company Called executive outcomes i can do this. He can topple rebel movements and governments. They are now defunct. That is not the type of contract the u. S. Government used in iraq or afghanistan. When i worked for dyncorp dyncorp is not a mercenary corporation. Its what i would call a military enterprise are. All the contractors that are armed or military enterprises. This comes from the 30 years war to a tradein raise military military forces would not deploy them. They would use them to augment a Standing National army, not to wage their own wars. That is actually what we saw in iraq and afghanistan. Military enterprises shall not mercenaries. Why was there such an turning to the contact . It wasnt just because they fill crucial gaps. They also did some things very well. They are generally cheaper. They can be better than Government Forces at certain tasks. Theyre good Stability Operations. They bring innovation. They have flexibility. They dont hold turf wars etc. But there are also concerns. Obviously profit motive to killing is a serious concern. Moral hazard lowers the barriers of entry too complex for policymakers could i do want to dwell on the slide. We can can discuss this in q a but there is great benefit and any risks in the question is should we use contractors moving forward and how to maximize the benefits and mitigate the risk . What i want to really focus on today briefly are looking for it. I have identified four trends beyond afghanistan and iraq. The first trend is industry is not going to go away when the u. S. Leads afghanistan. A multibillion dollar industry its chief consumer leaves finds new clients but we dont know who they are going to be. This is going on right now. Also the fact that the u. S. Has used its industry for 10 plus years has legitimized it in National Relations de facto. It has created market to force around the world. The second trend is this industry as it searches for new clients is becoming more globalized and is proliferating. We are starting see new demand. Ngos are hiring this industry. Oil companies is hiring private military security pity you can also have tycoons, very rich individuals that you can have actresses who want to hire blackwater for intervention in darfur. These are all possible. We are possible. We are also seeing Companies Come out of places like uganda and south africa. Recently for example nigeria is reported to have hired 300 private military contractors in its for boko haram in south africa. Security can generate its own demand. Mercenaries demand 5000 pounds of gold this month and we will be back next month. Out of work mercenaries can create wars. They can elongate worse. They can become bandits. This is a problem. We are also seeing proliferation out of four of the five demand worse. We have seen land private Security Companies but we are seeing private babies up with coast of new guinea. They have arsenal ships with contractors and armaments and they will fly to a tanker and they will harden a tanker with wire is a tanker moves the waters and want to stop the powered waters the contractors returned to the mothership. Contractors are also eight x. Experimenting with drums and easily turning them into, cause he drums. The third trend is that the industry is going native. So we have private military Companies Selling their services for example to the u. S. Military. Who is buying them and afghanistan . We also most of these companies are multinational. They may have american and british senior people that most of the personnel are from different countries. What happens to them when they go home . What happens to subs . Often a big big company will go to afghanistan and will create or hire a subcontractor to do security even the big contractor goes back home to the United States of america when the contract ends the subcontractors are left there to defend for themselves. And lastly and this is important, we are a crossroads between a future market where you have mercenaries operating a true freemarket fashion or military enterprises. These are what we saw in iraq and afghanistan who work in a Publicprivate Partnership with the United States or with the United Nations etc. Great right now we are seeing both developed simultaneously. Frankly if you could be one you could also be the other. So in conclusion what does this mean for world order . First of all this is not a new phenomenon. In fact most of military history was privatized. Mercenaries are the second oldest profession. In the middle ages for example contract warfare between mercenaries were how wars were planned. Hiring a contractor, they were called mercenaries. They work called jury was no different than hiring a contractor to build your mode or to build your castle. It was considered a legitimate, bloody legitimate form of trade. We also have private military Companies Back then, three companies that had people in scotland to syria serving sidebyside with each other. In the late 17th century state started to consolidate the market for force to monopolize it so much so that the zenith of it in the 20th century the idea that a nonstate actor could legitimately wheeled force would be enough but we have seen that unravel in the last 25 years. What we are doing is simply going backwards to the status quo auntie up what they world war was to force states over. The last couple hundred years have been anomalous. The question is if this continues to unravel where force is no longer in a place by states what might this look like if it continues on autopilot . It looks like durable disorder. World order some ways like the middle ages that can contain but not solve world problems. I call this in the book new medievalism. Its a nonstate centric world with overlapping allegiances and overlapping authorities and its a politics of identity. If you are for example a person in pashtuns are you a pashto first or afghanistan first or a local village. In liberia you had 14 to 16 ethnic tribes and you also have liberia. There are certain mind which groups say you have mix competing authorities in allegiances. You also have the commodification of conflict for security can be bought in an insecure world. People can buy military force for any reason they want. Mercenaries start to emerge. Right now we are only seeing military enterprises in the u. S. Go but that might start to change. We are seeing things beyond the u. S. Go. This could give rise to new actors. Before the superrich multinational corporations can become superpowers. Already the 1450 or more powerful than the 194 states in the world. If they are armed you can do the math. Contract warfare is resurrected. The response to market logic so for example just say im a city state and i want to take up my enemy. I could buy up all the mercenaries to deny my enemy defense but they can also bribe my mercenaries to the effect on battle which happened a lot during machiavellis year and why was a vitriolic in my opinion. And lastly more work. If we live in an era with an industry invested in conflict going to the most conflict prone places on the planet we will likely have more war. So thank you for this and i would like to welcome my College General hamm and mr. Marc garcetti. Thank you very much for that presentation sean and quite an ample scope for discussion to kick this off we turn to general hamm. As you look at this group on the stage you might be reminded of that old sesame Street Program which of these things is not like the other . I think im the one that doesnt quite fit here. I had a good occasion to meet peter a number of times in africa and he has forgotten more about africa then i would ever know. I got to the point at the end of my tenure i would stay to my knowledge ever good to be best summed up by saying i was just beginning to understand how much i didnt know about africa at the end of my tour. Sean of course is a noted author and professor. I was a pretty marginal student i think it certainly markets you heard rights for one of our nations leading publications. I have been known to read the New York Times on occasion. So anyway i am glad to be here. I will admit publicly that i very much enjoyed the opportunity to read seans book. I think its both a timely and important subject for us to talk about. It probably wont surprise you that i dont agree with all of his premises and conclusions. Im probably less alarmist about the trend of the expanding role for private Security Companies or private military companies globally. I think he is right to caution us about the direction in which this might be having and i think there are some very real concerns. Many of you in this room i suspect have had the opportunity to read our review barely recently released National Security strategy by the white house. There were two points that i thought were pretty employed and, to tenants that were described there. They would lead with capable partners to build the capacity to prevent conflict. Both of those in the National Security strategy context are much broader than the military but they do have implications for how the u. S. Military will operate and how the u. S. Government will seek to strengthen the defense and Security Capabilities of partners particularly new or nontraditional partners around the globe. As this group knows quite well Security Assistance falls primarily under the purview of the state department. Thats where congress has placed most of the authorities and most of the resources for Security Assistance around the globe. In order to execute those functions for the most part state Department Contracts that work out to Security Companies as sean has mentioned and highlights it in his book. There is a good reason for that that sean has articulated the cause being perhaps if not at the top of the list near the top of the list is to why that is a pretty good solution. But there is recently been some success in liberia, somalia and some other places with a bit of a blended approach where the primary authority has resided with the state department and is executed with a private Security Company or military enterprisers to you Sean Sternbach augmented for specific capabilities by the uniformed military of the United States. I think that blending of contractor and uniformed military might offer us some insights into how we might think about maximizing the effect that the u. S. Government writ large can achieve in achieving its goals of building partner capacity. There are some other authorities that have been specifically granted to the department of defense. Section 1208 and 1206 come to mind that with the state department concurrence allows the department of defense to take a leave for some specifically focused security matters. But even in those theres almost always some element of a contractor support whether its in logistics or facilities infrastructure or some other role for private Security Company or a contractor. I think again thats a worthwhile role. The real challenge as sean has laid out for us in the future we know the u. S. Defense budget in the Security Assistance budgets are going to decline in the coming years. How is it that we will be able to achieve the stated goals of strengthening defense capabilities and Security Capabilities of our partners around the globe in an era of a declining budget . I think that almost always leads us to the conclusion of at least sustained if not increased reliance upon contractors to achieve that. For the u. S. Military i think this presents an interesting challenge for us in training and education, recognizing that private security contractors are going to be wherever the u. S. Military operates either in support of u. S. Military, in support of the host nation or perhaps in support of the international organization. How do we prepare our next cohort of leaders to understand how to operate in that environment . What is the proper relationship between the uniformed military and the contracted force . How do we manage those and how do we develop leaders who recognize the complexities of that environment . I think there are a lot of things we can do in our training and Education Programs to have leaders who are more and more comfortable with that role. Sean has raised the possibility of perhaps the increased presence of contractors in u. N. Missions around the world then again i think that has pretty significant implications beyond just the United States one of which as many nations seek participation as a means frankly of sustaining their own force. Receiving a stipend and the training and equipment that they otherwise simply could not afford. Those forces from troop contributing nations are now supplanted by contractors. I think we need to think through the longerterm implications of what that might be well into the future. Lastly sean talks about the invisible hand of the marketplace and he addressed it in his comments here. I think that too is something that is worthwhile taking a positive direction. The marketplace will force most contractors who operate in that space to professionalize to provide Good Services a degree of accountability that they would hope for in order to be competitive to get awarded the contracts to sustain their business. My concern is that the other end of the spectrum the contractors who say im not going to invest the money to attain those high standards and a customer who is not willing to pay a high price for the highend contractors, do they seek out a bargain by contractors who are west west less disciplined less welltrained and less accountable and it that end of the spectrum does that create additional challenges for us as we move forward . And some i think sean is exactly right to say while understanding the history of this which i think he does a great job but to think forward and say how were we as a nation and as a member of the International Community what do we think is the proper role for private Security Companies and what is the relationship between Government Forces be they civilian or military and the contract forces as we move forward . Thanks for teeing up a great issue for us. Thank you general hamm for those comments and i will turn to marc mir said he. My role is to speak for a few minutes and then to put some questions to the experts here and as peter opens up the audience to questions. Its very cleareyed and levelheaded but at the same time comes to some scary conclusions. I admire him for writing it and i think for those who have read it you will learn a tremendous amount not only about what has happened over the last few decades but the history of contractors and mercenaries. Companies like i was struck by a Company Called the company at the start and the company of the hat. All of these needed eric princes marketing in order to make them sound a little bit sexier. But one of the important things about seans book is that it picks up a theme of one of the important themes of the post9 11 period which is how wars being waged outside of the big declared war zones with the big armies so what happened in afghanistan and what happened in iraq that the u. S. Military campaign there is really only part of the real important history of this period. A lot of the importance is what its been happening outside her declared war zones with different unorthodox types of armies. I think that is what is particularly interesting about seans book. I also wanted to raise the theme that sean does a little bit in his book and he talked a little bit in his presentation and that is the rise of contractors on the black and classified site. Not only did the pentagon find itself illequipped to wage war in multiple places at the same time with large armies and therefore had to rely on contractors to carry the wars but so did the cia, so did the nsa and other intelligence agencies. Just as we have seen on the overt side things done what used to be called traditional military activities and conditional government activities now done by contractors, we now see what we normally think of government functions like espionage gathering and analyzing intelligence. Even covert action missions. A lot of this is done by contractors and there is even a greater issue of transparency and accountability, trying to find a contract for these services. And i also wanted to give a shout out to the Africa Center which i think does incredibly important work in an area that is hard finding anyone in washington who knows the first thing about africa or cares what happens but people like peter do very important work so i am honored to be here as part of the panel. I will close before i go to the questions was an error is to get at the we can all discuss where are the areas that contractors are used extensively . And certainly in the future we see a perceived threat in africa of yet there is no great interest to deploy a military forces and those receiving forces and sometimes that is why you see the recipe from the greater contractor presence. Second is where the money goes. If you misstates draws down with the United States where do the contractors go to find new clients . One place is the gulf that has the money to pay for contractors in certainly the ambitions to be big players and also dont have a long standing armies that allow them to execute so that is another place. Those are some of the issues i want to lay out. So a general let me start with you. You took over u. S. Africa with that proposition with africom you dont have huge amounts of american troops under your command on the ground if any. Did you feel you were a general in charge of contractors . Not at all. There is a proper role for the contractors but theres also a proper role for the uniformed military. Like the other combat and commanders are was part of the discussion with the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff is secretary of defense that yielded the strategic defense died in 2012 approved by the president with regard to africa says will seek a light footprint greed, lowcost, approach to africa. The was part of that discussion but i do think it is part of the right approach. But this is a volume places where the u. S. Military is wanted and desired and also primarily in support role for contractors specifically u. S. Contractors. One of the things you learn about africa once you say they think this or this is the way it is they have no idea what theyre talking about at the very least there are 54 different ways to think about how things play out in africa and in some countries there was a strong desire for the informed u. S. Military if they wanted that relationship with their own military dash both cases we could accommodate. With others with the desire is we dont want a big presence and we are more suitable for contractors to fulfill the role. At least in africa to be careful of generalities. Almost every place uniformed military goes the contractor support for that or sustainment for infrastructure or communication sometimes of a contractor heavy presence. As the theater commander in collaboration with ambassadors around the continent Audrey Taylor the force to achieve that specific mission. How did countrys view contractors differently from the American Military . The have traders buy bancroft if they have a special forces group to do the training . Why contractors as opposed to others . The maximum are driven by u. S. Policy like somalia. Some will not put the folks on the ground so the contractors fill the void and did so capably in my view. There are benefits that have been highlighted one of a contract did work force is typically some of the individual traders traders tried to build continuity with the right balance. Agent the actions of some contractor said iraq and afghanistan affected the relationship there was a sense in some countries there are stories of how the security contractors that is not what we lunch with the country. The other was enough oversight or control to perform the mission to do so in a responsible way. You raise the somewhat utopian future of the breakdown of the states and a future where you can have the exxon mark mobil are retake control of the oilfields. And in your book and presentation you sent all the trend in goshen now. Is this the inevitability there will be a breakdown of the fortune 500 companies or are there any checks all of the way . Left unchecked that could be a possibility i ended the book fair i won attention paid that does not go on to autopilot it is not that the states will go way this guy isnt falling but already we see the industry used elements for its sense of capability so with World History there is no state monopoly on force. That is just the last 300 years if we unravel that it is a possibility Ioc Exxonmobil invading england. So i think this goes beyond beyond blackwater and baghdad to get beyond 2007. What we have seen in the last year, year and a half years proliferation of more conflict around the world with isis and ukraine and it seems that the tirades were reseeding and it was getting komer it has not happened yet there is no great appetite from the American Public to deploy large amounts of american troops to deal with the conflict. Is it inevitable that given the recipe of the threat and a feeling we dont want to get back into another iraq that we will rely on contractors to do this kind of work that firmly the army would . To some degree that mr. Reso to have a Global Presence everywhere in the world but americans dont want to have skin in the game contractors are a way to do that. I find it is heartening is heartening that congress would do that but i dont see the use of contractors abating giving u. S. National interest with activities abroad. I dont see that as a likely possibility where the traditional military rule at least in terms of combat operations will be contacted output there will be relied on contractors for support functions including logistics or maintenance there is a large contract in force that helps with the intelligence analysis and a 70 share process as well. It is hard for me to conceive the American People being supportive of a contract if force to conduct combat operations that is the purview of u. S. Military. But at the other end of the spectrum not to be terribly alarmist but there are individuals and organizations and are less reputable that perform these functions almost exclusively for the monetary incentive so what is to hinder a terrorist organization hiring their own private military force . Said is much more concerning the and a farfetched idea that the United States will contract its functions to more fighting. So talk about the other clients whether organizations or states use said they will spend less on its own defense and has over the past decade and dash john said in the Opening Statement that this industry has grown. Looking to the future or depressant the president what countries are they . There is a Global Market for the services that defense contractors provide weather military hardware or a training function or institutional. In the mid east or the gulf were there are security challenges to where they have the National Wealth to commit to a significant defense contract is one place the u. S. Defense companies in the era of declining u. S. Government spending for products and services, where else do they go and double this one reason way to rise to the top stinks seeing gold cold and gas and ngo going to places like somalia to protect their people and property. We see gadaffi hire mercenaries to defend him in the last days also states like nigeria allegedly hiring contractors out of south africa to deal with boko haram. These are small and a gradual but my concern is what happens . Id like to dominate. Refer into nigeria go back to the earlier stage with liberia there was some controversy at the time whether clearly the armed forces needed to step down to be demobilized and reintegrated but there was some controversy whether they should have a military but in a different fiscal climate the the funding would not have come. Diaz see a future in the future of state building we dont have the resources to help the was Security Sector reform higher someone but lets not go through this process and if that is the case as of corollary into that this issue as nigeria is an example is a resource line for many military but if your friend is correct that perhaps peacekeeping operations move more efficiently to a contractor or the enterprise basis then what do we do that dont have for fighting skills that we have seen from nigeria or peacekeeping skills. To a really good questions. With the reform would be hard to imagine and the u. S. To say we cannot help you build your military feel free to buy on the open market. I can only imagine that would be done the there was of regulation in existence to say these are the contractors who have to work with but i can see countries doing that of their own volition or augmenting their forces. It is easy to think about the west phenomenon but if you are a fragile state if you dont trust your politicized military contractors can be better very attractive for better or worse. With the u. N. Peacekeeping operations it would affect the countries that participated but look around the world peacekeeping is then his teams the demand rises every year. But as of military enterpriser it isnt a bad idea of the right Regulatory Framework was set up. But i do worry about the first phenomenon of the budgetary pressures would cause us to bake some shortterm decision sitter harmful and the long term. I do worry about a decision has says he will not invest in Security Assistance and typically what happens a crisis develops at a much greater cost. So i do worry about the nearterm budgetary pressures. Please wait for the microphone. They give you very much i have an observation then of question i think the other side of the contractor issue is far more dangerous with of vulnerability of dependency not from those contractors but from the dependence for example there are 800,000 contractors and from the pentagon many fill military jobs because they were deployed but you run the risk like of Edward Snowden to this that capability because people are working playbills to work between 8 a. M. And 4 00 p. M. But if you deploy of brigade for the extended period time york dependent on logistics and food except, etc. So how much is that regarded as the handicapped not just in africa but that was a limited military expedition but if you had to deploy a large force and needed another 50 percent of contractors for just to sustain those logistics how much is that a problem in the future . I do think the reliance on contractor support for military activities is a worrisome trend we make policy decisions over success the years to outsource military functions whether maintenance or feeding or any number of support activities principally cost driven because almost always it is less expensive in the long run but i do worry as a commander with that capability to be outside of my control. I think a large scale operation as we talked before as an anomaly it is unlikely we will see that scale in our lifetime but even then to have the degree of contractor dependence we have to work through those mechanisms to make sure with that decision will not include this in the structure but by design reside for those mechanisms for that capability to be just as responsive as uniformed military has implications how you train and develop leaders the first time you meet someone on the battlefield is a recipe for failure. I concur with your concerns about over dependence on the private sector. Is a question for the nation. How much you want to spend . On the board of directors for Atlantic Council, first i want to thank you for the discussion and of presentation and i concur with this segment of the excellence of the ever passenger in the outstanding contribution in takes to policy discussion globally. One major omission in today is the civilian places that has become a major aspect of the contractor business of the part of the United States government released for the last 20 years of United States has played a role all through contracting we dont have a National Police force to does communitybased policing like other nations do it plays into the question of International Peacekeeping role tour the United States government convinced the u. N. To except to have active duty police on loan but not of the same situation as those supplied by other nations. Do you have any comments about this phenomenon how you see this moving forward . I think that is a shortfall with our National Capacity there is tremendous demand for training and development of the police force is globally and i saw that in africa one that we wrestled read this not having a National Police force to also recognize in many african countries the of military has said domestic policing role which is not a rule that the u. S. Military performs soviet emigre area with a desire to fill the need of a particular country but didnt have the right capacity to meet that need and other nations could step in every single out the italians who had that capability and for quite effective but you may have identified a gap how do we feel that either specifically designed capability or place that the man on the contract aside. I totally agree that policing has a huge gap going back to the balkans they have contracted out a plug but it is an earlier contract being problem but we dont have the mi five in this country i wish we could confront because it is so critical for Stability Operations to lecter is far more but after a quibble i take your interested to take that analysis a step further with the Investor Community that is a tremendous governing break with the Security Companies looking at the way publicly traded corporations consider these services and also a number of companies that are not in the security part but then i do think in the Investor Community there is the difference with a little more protection with those foreign entities with the Counterterrorism Police to perform those functions similar to the first comment i agree. Publicly traded company on the new york stock exchanges very vulnerable to critique it doesnt act as a regulation but at governance of sorts. But really over the horizon i am not worried about those companies. I am worried about someone in somalia to say youre coming to somalia let me protect you that obviously the government there is much more of less so. I agree with me think of the types of companies the last 10 years is not my concern that one will invade a of a country to take over the houston wildcat but it is the countries that we dont think about is my concern. There are those who think that raising a military is different somehow been killing people and of course, that is true but in the military world only infantry units can create another infantry units so if you are the military enterpriser who have the skills to become a mercenary but it is the slippery slope so i understand the difference of opinion but i respectfully disagree. In 2001 coffee anon had a steady on the use of Armed Security forces in the u. N. And the conclusion was there is a range of services with the single guy with the rifle standing in front of a shed to where as a capable force working on peacekeeping missions and they reduce Armed Security it is that where theyre ready to go but talk about where you think that line should be some what they can and should be used for or what is the average too far . I was to just the un context there used exclusively defensive ways to defend people and property but do not engage in of the hands. In a regular more offense than defense is a false dichotomy that by and large they dont go after the condo and i agree with the general i can see the u. S. Contract thing a company for offensive autonomous Campaign Like a mercenary wired. So the defensive operations into lot of concern about the regulatory scheme for how they deploy this there are many benefits that they would have to be controlled. Certainly on the west side or on the womens side would be a cautious because of the budgetary pressures my guess is like sean pointed out contracting out is probably cheaper than a contributing asian deployments so why worry about the budgetary pressures going to contract its Security Forces beyond the line that you describe some point in the future of the budget causes them to do that. Just supply a nuclear on the al lot, is against the law to hire a company or Contract Services to do offensive combat operations . Recess in the region still feel comfortable . I believe in the u. S. Context it is contrary to u. S. Lot. But the bigger question is what happens when a side assad does this or less reputable actors . A great presentation for anybody who has not read it is an excellent book. Purges set and get a sign by the authors for the with the International Code of conduct the journalist you may be familiar with the swiss government International Community the ngo caved together to have a code of conduct for private security providers to itemize love problems you have with the document which the standards and guidelines to make that International Code of conduct is something i was involved in. I think it is a great star idle think it is regulation but basically if you are a company and what to be seen as best of breed you would sign up you have to be vetted to get a certificate hopefully they would introduce you or get you clients but at the end of the day there is no coercion the worst it could do is kick you out of the club and to me that is not a regulation even if. I think itd save mcdevitt said beginning with the future framework but is not with the laws of armed conflict. I am with american university. You mentioned multilateral organizations and countries like nigeria but i havent heard the African Union as potential clients for the services. There has been double success with pko in the region but what is the future of this type of service by those entities . Feminize cents for the African Union and Regional Economic communities that they are more interested in my personal opinion and appropriately so to seek Cooperation Among the Member States than the larger africa of union but there is a fiscal reality that since without external funding from the International Community simply would not have the wherewithal to undertake a significant private contract take military ever in the same is probably true with the Regional Economic communities but there is a role s the communities grapple with the African Standby forces in greater collaboration there may be a rule for private Security Companies toward military enterprises to help the various nations build the degree of standardization and interoperable the tiso the committees have a force that is more interoperable and effective around the continent i can see rule for those in the trading gold more so than active purchase of asian and. By 100 percent degree. Pledge to raise a followup question and with the general is important is the issue of accountability chain of command you have contractors under your purview after being raised from the army culture these people were under your command but not in the chain of command to the present problems for you as head of africom . It did not. There were contractors contacted through Africa Command and its components with dod contractors if you will and certainly not a chain of command the clear lines of authority for each providing contracts support but with the issue of misconduct church but there was no gross violations and i dont know but would say that the African Bureau who oversaw the state Department Contract in force would say the same. There maybe instances of individual misconduct or other situations there were no institutional challenges between the contract of force. Edits the business. The last thing it wants to do is alienate whether state or dod or whoever writes the check. I want to ask with the influence of china on the african continent what you see america supporting the way they intervene with military intervention . China is omnipresent in almost every african country but it is different than the u. S. There wasnt a sizable active military presence in most places their investment or interest lie in other areas but certainly there were compounds are large projects conducted are performed by chinese businesses that have the same issue that we talked about of a private Security Force contractors to keep workers safe. But certainly i never encountered any conflict with any chinese entity on the african continent. Certainly there is the significant economic competition but it never struck me as anything better than competition and nothing bad ever serial adversarial. But with the policies that is the reflection of our own were mentioning how the u. S. Is reluctant to put boots on the ground china has given u. N. Peacekeeping the largest contribution there is probably 1800 chinese in various missions plus since the end of 2008 there has been a task force of the chinese navy off the coast of somalia continuously since 2008 in piracy operations so that is that expeditionary capability. But even with that maritime engagement as part of the International Coalition they were part of a broad coalition. Had some good effect senate general good to see you again. Talk about capability or verification going back to benghazi i heard your testimony but with a security capability where was the shortfall . Look at the British Ambassador the group the supported him was very professional if you have blackwater supporting ambassador stephen to be alive today so weird to see that validation of units theyre supposed to be providing security . To make your asking the wrong guy asking us soldier to comment on the state Department Security effort. But the principle is right. So what is the right degree of security many of us who have served we have to wrestle sometimes with the overbearing presence running people off the road rather roadblocks so you have to do repair work that takes it too far too extreme clarity go the other way with two small of the presence with us capability that is why i think to understand the environment in which we operate and the support to make the Resources Available necessary to meet the mission. Is there a concern for the military groups who dont have a Corporate Office . I would point to a the example if they had not been stopped in zimbabwe they probably easily could depose the government. Du see this as a problem . Yes. Of course,. We are very concerned when we have no organizations with the above the ground signature but having worked around this industry there is a lot of charlatans in this space to claim all sorts of weird things and sometimes it is hard to figure out the real threat but there are contractors are in our Northern Iraq where did they come from . Theyre nonamerican. We need to have this ability as well. In the companies without websites are particularly interesting to people like me. [laughter] following up on your comment about code of conduct to recognize your feelings that the industry is here tuesday can you think of other examples that could be transferable and a true regulatory scope transparency to somehow to verify or establish more credibility for the industry . And sure there are but i cannot think of a good one when it comes to security creates its own demand i am not worried about the west regulating but operating in the unregulated area like the condo. But i do think we dont always have to look at strict regulation but can use the market power and the code of conduct does this to shape industry behavior it is not into the world but how to redo any more savvy manner . Were trying to close so you have any closing comments . They give for being here i wrote the book to hear beyond iraq and