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Next, from the National Press club in washington d. C. , michael lindsay, president of Jordan College in massachusetts present the results of his tenure power in america. Mr. Lindsey says a few thousand people in the u. S. Make decisions than packed everyone else. He conducted indepth interviews with 550 government and business leaders. To find out how they operate. This event is hosted by the attorney for the nonprofit organish basting washed to d. C. [inaudible conversations] good evening, everyone. Good evening and welcome to the Trinity Forums evening conversation with michael and me, on view from the top, an inside look at how people in power see it shaped the world. We are thrilled by the turnout tonight. If you are still standing, dairy spread over here. One or two right there as well so feel free to make your way to a stop where you can actually fit comfortably for the rest of the evening. I am president of the Trinity Forum and we are really excited to partner with gordon. Id like to thank gordon scored and staff for their willingness to partner with s. And i am delighted we are joined tonight including suzy young as well as Trinity Forum Board Members and holiday of kramer, peter nehr donald and hardy and caroline gertner. Im also delighted so many Trinity Forum Academy Alumni and garden alumni are here tonight. We are delighted you are here. Finally, we are excited each and everyone of you are here this evening. We think youre going to find this session very compelling. Since theres not enough time to answer all the audience questions, we want to let you know we will be live blogging this event see them a lot social media either on her face but page or on twitter, using hash tag Trinity Forum for hash tag view from the top. In addition to being broadcast live tonight on cspan2, tonights presentation is also going to run throughout the weekend on cspans booktv. For those of you who are familiar with the Trinity Forum, we provide a space henrys versus for theaters to a geisha lifes greatest question in the context of faith. We believe ideas have consequences in part of the christian mandate of loving god with all of your mind requires awful docile contemplation of the great ideas and questions of our time. And so it is our mission and our joy to provide publications and programs such as the one tonight to help leaders engage this question and ultimately to come to better know the author of the answers. It has been said the Great Questions of why essentially boil down to just three. What is a good person . What is the good life . And what is a just society . Our conception of and hopes for all three of those questions are necessarily in a southeastern part of the individual and to touche and it shaped our lives. So grappling with those Great Questions ushers in another line of inquiry. What is the nature of good leadership. Is it possible to both live and lead wisely and well . It is a question of enormous importance and perhaps particularly in our time, when public trust in leaders in business governments in virtually every institution has plummeted new lows in the wake of leadership failures. As the supply of trustworthy leaders seems ever more elusive, the need to understand how to cultivate and develop such leadership is more urgent. You can address that need with the expertise or the inside as our speaker this evening, dr. Michael lindsay. Michael is a prominent sociologist, authored president of her college located outside of boston, massachusetts pretty cynical lot of alar theology degrees from print in an oxford as well as a phd in sociology from princeton michael has devoted much of his academic career to this buddy of leadership. As a professor at rice university, he directed the program for the study of leadership or as well as published his Pulitzer Prize nominated book, faith in the halls of power, which is listed as the best book of 2007 by Publishers Weekly and widely profiled in the New York Times and wall street journal, usa today, cnn and countless other outlets. Since assuming the presidency of gordon, michaels leadership expertise has come increasingly practical as well as academic. His relatively short tenure there has been accompanied not only by a dramatic increase in applications enrollments and donations or which im sure youre travesties thank you, but though a new web essays on developing and inspired a new generation of leaders. Towards that end coming is developed and introduced two new programs included the Court President ial fellows program, which is modeled after the white house programs and to elevate program, what he calls a weeklong leadership lab. He has also just come pleaded the largest ever interview this buddy of leaders, the results of which he details in his newest book, view from the top, which weve invited him to the guys here today. At the conclusion of michaels remarks, he will be joined on stage by his coauthor, mary grace hager, who i am proud to say is alumnus of the Trinity Forum academy. We are very proud to claim here. Together they will take audience questions. Michael, welcome. [applause] well, thank you very much. I wish my folks are here. My dad be so proud of my mom would actually believe what she said. Tonight i want to share with you what i spent the last 10 years of my life focus on. Trying to understand what makes great leaders. What are the motivations that drive them to assume positions of responsibility. How did they manage the challenges and opportunities they encounter with their position to respond ability and how did they seek to create a legacy that extends far beyond their term in office. A lot of people ask me how the world did you get a chance to interview 550 amazing individuals . It was a wonderful project started out as my dissertation some living proof you can write a dissertation your wife will describe is actually interest in. So much of getting the interviews as a matter of being the right place at the right time. I had a couple hours to kill so i went to the bookstore at stanford university. I looked over in the corner of my eye and saw a woman who ive been trying to track down for years. A woman who looked exactly like karen hughes. They served as counselor for george w. Bush. Ive been trying to get an interview for about four years and here she was, or so i thought in the flash. I wasnt positive whose care in hughes unless i decided i needed to wait until she spoke. Is there to ease sat beside this woman and in a couple minute she said something and i instantly recognized the raspy text and voice and thought this is maybe rake. I realize ive never asked anyone for review facetoface here it is what is like asking someone out on a date facetoface. What if they say no . That embarrassing. So i needed to get that arafat. I decided i was circled around karen hughes, which i did. I got to the end of the first urkel and decided im not need to do this allows circle a second time. I circle the third time in the fourth time. I circled five times at the stanford bookstore. At the end of the fifth cycle i decided this was too nerveracking. Im out of here and i left the store. There is a large plant that cited the bookstore at stanford. I seen out there and it thinking what was that about . Why was i so intimidated and so concerned what she would think of me . So what if she says no . Shall forget in five minutes all remember the rest of my life. So i decided to go back into the bookstore. I go back and looking for karen hughes and i cant find her. I thought this is defined punishment. I did not encourage early on. Eventually i notice shes on the second floor of the coffee bar. And they can have a dresser . Tricolored matting counselor, counselors use, mrs. Hughes, what am i supposed to say . I was sorting that out as they reached her. So i tapped her on the shoulder. She turned around and i have this habit when i get nervous at having read splotches appear on my neck and i knew i had about 60 seconds before my face would be be bad. So i said. The sociologist acting a study of leaders. Wonder if he might give me an interview. She said inoculate gynecologist at my son, so this is not a good time. I give you my phone number and you can call me a couple months. Id be happy to sit down with you. I took her number and a couple months past i said i dont know if you know but my name is michael lindsay. [laughter] i said yes that need. She ended up giving me an interview. It was an amazing interview. Here is a one in who really wasnt surprised as anyone that she was in the inner circle of political power. She had not spent her life trying to get there. She happened to be good as the man man who ran for president. He ended up winning and he invited her to come work with him. Once she was in the office, she began to wonder, is this how i want to lead my life . She was working crazy hours i had a teenage son. If you know her story, she ended up resigning her position at the white house, moving to austin. It was at that time i conducted the interview with her. She was grappling with questions about location and calling, responsibility and influence. She ended up deciding to go back to washington, with the state department for a couple of years. She represents what i found across the 550 people to meet extraordinary individuals. Each of them had their own stories. Interesting things to offer as we understand how this readership work in our culture today. I wrote view from the top with hope it would inspire the next generation of leaders. If youre in a position of responsibility, i think youll find it resonates with the periods. People had sent the email sender not all he emails, so i take that as a good sign. What we tried to do in the story is to represent peoples experiences truthfully and honestly as we could and at the same time apply the critical analysis skills of a social scientist. We tell stories of numbers, big numbers of folks who are represented in this story, but also individual experiences and journeys. Theres four things i thought might be helpful to share that ill walk away from the study after tenures thinking is really important. One is the significance of what we call institutional leadership. George hile meyer is an extraordinary man, an engineer who grew up not too far away and the university of pennsylvania. His parents were immigrants to this country. He didnt have a lot of money. His dad was a janitor. But he went to college, studied engineering and got a job working for rca. While he was an engineer there, he actually discover the type knowledge sheet that would allow liquid crystal displays, something we use today. The problem however is george discovered this in 1964 and the leadership that ours ea wasnt convinced it was all that interest me. And so while he tried to persuade his colleagues, in the end he wasnt accessible. The u. S. Lost its competitive advantage. It was the japanese super hot liquid crystal displays to the marketplace in the 1970s and 80s. You see, george is an extraordinary individual. But without his additional backing, he wasnt able to make a longterm difference i changed human history. Hes focused the credit for coming up with the invention, that most people dont even know his name. Institutions matter far more than i expect in starting the study. I thought interviewing ipod or 50 people id be studying extraordinary personalities, people who have a certain persona. What i found this most of the power in our culture is housed within institutions. So if you dont have that word is inside connection and a leadership position with institution, you have little chance of making a lot term impact on culture. One extraordinary man that is named marty evidence. She was a first female rear admiral in the u. S. Navy. She went on to nervous ahead of the american red cross, the commission ladies professional golf ossetian, then on a number of corporate boards. Do you remember the tailhook incident that happened in the u. S. Navy in the night a 90s. It was an embarrassing situation where there is clear gender bias occurred within the military. Marty was the person who was tasked with leading the task orders that would help the u. S. Navy figure out how could you create more space for women to serve in combat or leadership positions in the u. S. Navy . Because she was an insider at that institution, she was able to bring about his can change to the u. S. Military. One of the key lessons i tell my students that gordon is if you want to have a lasting impact, youve got to be in that room where decisions are made. That is why you do to show leadership matters. The second key elements of leadership we encounter over the course of the study is the value of early leadership. Heres the interesting thing. We found that it really doesnt matter much about what you do before age 20. There is no statistically significant relationship between virtually any variable you can imagine and the likelihood of becoming a strategic leader later in life. It doesnt matter if your parents were rich or poor. It doesnt matter if youre a varsity athlete or a student body president. It doesnt matter if youre popular or ignorant. None of those things matter. What does matter however sometime in the early adult stage, 18, and 10, 20, 21, 22, in the College Years in particular you need to find a mentor. Somebody who will help raise the opportunity for you, who will introduce you to different networks. Its a wonder for a social scientist who wrote a book in the 1970s a getting a job. The key finding from this research is it doesnt really matter if your family and friends help you make connections when youre applying for jobs because they dont have a longterm impact. Instead he discovered what he calls the strength of weak ties. We get jobs because of acquaintance networks, friends of friends who help make introduction and give us opportunities. In fact, that is what i found over the course of my study. Many folks who got a leg up in the world achieve that because they were a friend of a friend who made an introduction. One of the key findings of this study is young people have to learn how to max immense opportunities they are given. Not everybody has the same repertoire of skills or talents, that you use what you are getting to the maximum potential. A wonderful story, kevin plank at the university of maryland. Kevin wasnt the best dudes in school. He also wasnt the best athlete. A number of friends were drafted for the nfl and he didnt have his sights on that because he did think it was a possibility. Kevin had always been good at sales. He ran in college Mayflower Service for guys to buy roses their girlfriends on alan penn state, ran it out of his dorm room in it a lot money. He knew he could tell things. One day at the end of the practice is committed to a day practices he was having in late august, it think it his senior year he realized he took his shoulder pads off in his tshirt was just weighted down with sweat. He thought, theres got to be a way in which you could invent a fabric that could somehow with the way the moisture so you would not have this five, 10 pounds you are carrying when trying to perform as an athlete. He literally invented the industry of performance apparel. He took his last 600 while he was sleeping on the couch at his grandmothers house, invested in six different fibers, trying to see if this would be the key and it ended up working in back of the and gentlemen, was the start of under armour. You never know how you take opportunity in background and experience is youve got to maximize the muggers feels that a lasting impact. Early leadership we found next to huge difference. You have to experience of a cali leadership catalyst. When i was a faculty member at rice, we were trying to figure out how could rice enter into the top 10 stations nationally ranked. Price is a wonderful school. 16, 17, 18. One of the areas they might invest in with a rigorous Leadership Development program that would help elevate the contributions of the young people who they were serving. So i was tested the opportunity to go and look about the Leadership Development programs being run in universities in the dirt, public or in seeing what was working effectively. I looked at 25 had a lot of promise included there was one that was very significant. Its called the white house fellowship. It was started in 19 before by president johnson. Its a programmer folks in their 20s who are promising emerging leaders resign whatever job they have at the time, moved to washington and come work for you as cabinet secretary for one year. And the role they are given a chance to see up close how does leadership really work and then they take the tears back with them to their respective jobs. The idea according to president johnson is this would raise leadership quotient of those folks who go on to occupy Senior Leadership roles and commerce, technology, entertainment and government not just over 10 years, the 50 years. Its been amazingly significant. As it turned out, i was able to be in the Selection Process for one year and this is when i became convinced this was extraordinary. I see a guy who holds Johns Hopkins medical school read a textbook used in 40 of medical schools around the country and is a regular contributor to cnn. He got reject it for the white house fellowship. I decided that its up that is that the rejects look like. Ive got to study this program. Its wonderful because the nurses as many as 2000 or three people to apply for the fellowship and then narrow it down to 30 national finalists. Ive got to tell you, when you take a pool of 3000 narrow it down to 30, its really hard to tell who should be select it and who should. Because i was on inside track, its how you theres a lot of things that were idiosyncratic that a particular candidate kelley joe of the judges like . Did they make a connection with somebody else . You cant tell the folks at heart in meaningful ways at that point. If you follow their career trajectories, something emerges. We found, for example, among the folks who were finalists, but not actually selected to be a fellow, 12 go on to be a very senior leader, to be a ceo of a fortune 1000 company or hold a similar position in their own field, whether madison, law, entertainment or education. Thats not bad. But if you compare that with those folks who are not just finalists for the program, but actual white house fellows come easy over the course of their career, 32 of them go on to hold the position. At one moment come you cant tell these folks apart. At another moment, this one group is two and a half times more likely to assume the pinnacle of leadership in her society. So we went about to try and study what made the program work. I interviewed about 100 former white house fellows. Folks like colin powell, wesley clark, ceo of levi strauss image jcpenney, extraordinary individuals. We did a survey comic and 82 response rate, really had an amazing mix. Then i went about the process of building a Leadership Development Program Model for college students. In the midst of that, i was invited to send the presidency according. Ill never forget my conversation when i went to tell them. He said were really excited, but i do have a question. Hes intellectual property is that study you did . [laughter] i say david, you think its part of my research. He said yeah, i was afraid you were going to say that. So i brought it to gordimer Delta Program called the president ial fellows program. The only other country modeled for college students. We believe deeply in the importance of early leadership opportunities. My research on the next visit to camp difference. It doesnt matter what happens by age 20, but between 20 and 40, that is a significant easing. People who have a particular effort to track to reach have the opportunity to significantly sharpen and i want to assume significant positions of responsibility in their chosen vocation. In addition to institutional leadership in early leadership, we saw value of what we call a symbolic leadership. Its interesting because i did not realize how much leadership depends on your ability to really lead with your life. So much of what a leader does is measured by how they represent themselves in public, how much they embody the values in the values and virtues that the petitions of which they are part. Its interesting because on people who are incredibly thoughtful realize even when you are trying to be very careful in how you represent your values and ideals come you cant always predict how to interpret it. A wonderful stories i interviewed condoleezza rice. You know, amazing woman, concert pianist, soviet expert, youngest provost at university, National Security adviser and secretary of state. Reading her was an extraordinary opportunity and as we were conducting the interview, i asked her about missteps she had made while in the white house and what she had learned from that. Shes that i learned that your life is a sin will and people Pay Attention to symbols. What does that mean . She said he remember when Hurricane Katrina hit new orleans. I did . She said i was serving as secretary of state at the time. I secretary of state i had nothing to do with fema or the u. S. Governments response to is happening in new orleans. It is as far removed as you could possibly be. As it turned out, i was in new york for the opening of the General Assembly of the United Nations as the secretary of state should do. I realized i had not packed and appropriate dress for a reception is going to that evening and my staff that theyd be happy to go get me one. I said ive got a spare hour. I will just run in the store to do it. So she took a spare hour, ran to saks fifth avenue to get a dress, pick out a dress is appropriate and hopped in a cat to get to the u. N. As it turned out when your secretary of state, you are watched all the time and a reporter snapped a picture of dr. Rice, walking under saks fifth avenue with a shopping bag on the same day that there was a picture of the devastation happening in new orleans. She said i realize you have to lead with your life. The fourth approach to leadership that we encounter that we think differentiates folks is what we call platinum leadership. I interviewed 550 amazing people. Folks who would do anything he steered within the 550, we found 22 and are 120 individuals who had done extort very. They not only really been an institution that had national or global scope, but theyve also been able to max and i see opportunities that came to them and not grow up and at the same time garner the trust and respect of their colleagues and their peers. Incredibly hard to do in a competitive tire me. These platinum leaders we found really set apart from other folks. They have the ability to combine the institutional leadership we talked about in the symbolic leadership. They recognize that they could do extraordinary things. As though, they were individuals who i first peculiarly light, enjoyed getting to know them he has a hat a compelling sort of winsome persona that had they carried their values with them to take winter effect. As it turns out, one of the individuals who really impressed with the end of cottonelle airlines in the late 1890s. His name is david crystal. In the 1990s, the airline is tree was trying to figure out new ways to recognize revenue opportunities. David was able to broker a landmark deal that really changed the entire Airline Industry. He brokered a deal for continentals competitors on northwest airlines, were they with cells on each others plane and recognize reciprocal benefits for frequent buyers. This is what they do groundwork for other consolidation weve seen in the Airline Industry over the last 10 years. It was wildly successful and as a result, wall street loved the story and the stock price went through the roof. But they are of deep faith to want to make sure that their life is with their values. To make sure they would live beneath their means. In if this ended your bonus comes to be wavelet to give it away to world vision so then that is less to go to that organization is no to approach that general counsel if he could give back his bonus convicted be through the Corporate Philanthropy to the one of his choice. Then never heard of one that wanted to do giveback the bonus. [laughter] but sure enough it was possible. And here is what is extraordinary he had theur opportunity to use that experience to garner moral authority because of that and knocked on the doors of all other executives to get bonuses they knew that stock price had gone up and they say you really dont need that 1 million would it be great to do something extraordinary . And he could use that moral authority to persuade colleagues to donate to a lot more money through the Corporate Philanthropy they look good the company booked good not every day you can talk about one of your interviewees summer in the room but tonight i am very proud because david is here. I salute you. [applause] i had the great pleasure to meet Extraordinary People like david who were given responsibilities but the key thing leader needs to do if they are a leader over the long haul in 2014 is to sink institutionally but act personally. We leave with their lives but only to build up your Organization Also serve the common good. Thank you very much. [applause] did you can stand and wait that would be great so to introduce the coauthor who was mentioned briefly year earlier. And was a special assistant to president lindsay in graduated from eyehole rice is and is an alumnus and i know that you have been very involved in that quantitative and qualitative analysis. Then you are part of that twentysomething. What is your take away and from that analysis what you call the application to your own life . I started with research in college i was with the Rhodes Scholars and was banned all day reading the journal and i felt so discouraged because i would not be a Rhodes Scholar but over the next couple of years we did more research to realize it helps to come from a family with resources but it is not necessary but that pluralities from the middleclass background so to see it is important one of the key things is the approach to life and something i think about now as the twenties something to use specialized but keeping a broad mine sent with key leadership nature on. Thank you for your comments today but the question of pride and humility and faceless this is a town built on and people going to the top four leadership did you find anything that indicated they were not seeking to be leaders but the leadership was up by product or how they tried to figure out how to lead . A very perceptive observations i did find people was clawed their way up to the top but i will not name names tonight but i also have to say what i found is there is a distinct difference between those who are though one of these in those individuals who get to that top position than to to have a higher degree of personal humility of institutional pride that resonates with research and that is the case with my work as well. Individuals who are really committed to make their life counts it did not matter what their title was. Or focused on issues about authority but some who were. , but by and large in those platinum leaders are individuals that seemed to be above the fray. They are committed to make their life count in to there is time along the way even though to reflect the values but on hold who found them so house but part of it is they got to the right now working in relation all entrepreneurs. He is the most influential advisers to the Community Alive today. Out one time serving on 12th fortune 500 boards at the same time. When they said to david individual his name came up. He said i never applied for a job in my life. It helps he made friends and powerful places but with his calling and vision if you know, the story of his life that opened up a lot of doors. My question is similar it seems almost every week weve rightabout the failures of the evangelical leader passing through or the organization and it seems like a common theme looking at people with you monday is egos and the accountability and as i listened you wonder is that a problem that is unique to the evangelical world . I dont think that evangelical has the corner on the market of moral failure. But the there is a lot of start of organizations and churches. Within that thesis there tends not to be the same institutional structures which is why institutions do matter for longterm success. For gordon and students who want to lead to develop a network of friends that they know from the yearly part of their careers to hold them accountable with the hard questions. Truly what gets them in trouble is money and power and sex are you being faithful in your marriage . How to handle your finances . Who is keeping you grounded see you dont buy into your own press. People like interviewed had that platinum leadership to find ways to be held accountable. John can in the bank ceo who made a friendships from high school in they have a way to keep him grounded. That kind of approach is helpful but it is important to have accountability. Good evening. Much 2012 recent graduate of Gordon College as a young professional of International Development to take seriously a the power of Decision Makers the in washington d. C. Your where we work, could you speak to the distance between those places of power and also someone interested to do institutional power and how do reorients those that change Dave Christian commitment to to all views for those leaders that we found it was the blind spot of the awareness of the executive compensation significantly erodes public trust. It is striking and interviewed one guy whos said will come much money ive made. Key said i stopped counting. He made 37 million. The number of executives who are oblivious how is emblematic of their inability to connect with ordinary americans is it diminishes their leadership. But what has been televising for other folks one that happened in the number of years ago of c0 of Herman Miller the Furniture Company i highly recommend to the chair but walking into a factory floor one day he had a conversation with of guy who was working in the factory who did not have a College Degree that he was never bend acculturated of what you ask the ceo and what you do not. And somewhere in that conversation the topic came up about compensation and he said how much money do you make . He said in that moment was in paris because i realized i could not justify why my salary was so different from his. Historically the average differential from the top employs to the lowest is about 45 one is the lowest is 1,000 a year the top is 45,000 but now there was research that historically it was 20 one so he said i would like to cap my salary so it is connected to be 20 times of the law was paid employee. But that is better than the National Average today that is 150 one. So i did find examples if theyre willing to use think about the power could be appropriately channeled to put down trees on their lives but those are not enough examples perhaps they could lead the way going forward. Faq so much. I am from the class of 89 from gordon it is a treat to hear from you. Added any given time we cannot all be in peters. Not all students there will be in peters and a particular time or the jurors in their home and i think about raising my boy is to teach them leadership and the best message dike gives them is opportunities to do what is good and excellent and the life affirminga]d and to encourage other people to do that. Whats is your research overtime has taughtc you that you teach your kids are the students generally about what they should aspire to . I think it is about pursuing what is good or writer excellent or pure or perfect but what do we all need to hear about leadership . One of the most important things to teach our kids is the lead with our life the way we conduct ourselves makes a difference. In the midst of doing this research my wife and i had a daughter that ended up being special needs. Guaranteeing elisabeth is an entirely different view of leadership to understand what it means to have a life worth eating and to recognize that just because society does have individuals that have power that is not the calling for everyone. I am not sure it is a healthy motivation but back to the point it is far more significant with the willingness to try to serve but that is what leadership is about. Suss to cultivate that the of leadership occurs in different settings it does not require you to visa ceo as a classroom teacher or the coach or the pastor or as a nurse. Significant roles with longlasting impact. One of the things we encountered is one of the most informative roles and what we found is it tended not to bathe that were in those powerful positions those a little much humbler life that had opportunities to make a difference. We stand on the shoulders of giants not always thus the bow. Could you provide any insight about failure or how they dont . One of the common questions is how leaders view decisions do look back for analyzing and struggle to put it behind you and move on. To be of failure to handle that not every step is a step forward and says leadership it is the key to move on from failure. The, the of the coast guard after the of the month debacle he was put in charge of u. S. Government response and as it turns out the federal Government Asks them to be the point person. So that response to the major crisis of new orleans. And as a roughandtumble kind of guy and was arrested twice he gets in fights. Just because you can be a leader was one domain does not mean you will be a leader with another. [laughter] but he works really well for the coast guard. They loved him. But when you are beating you cannot spend time with the regret locker. Move on. That is true. Every Single Person we interfered experiencing a ticket to appear at some point in time and we learned so much more about who we are and who we want to be fans access. That they have tremendous courage and persistence and they bounce back. How many were rejected the first time they applied. If you are rejected try again. You never know. I appreciate the plug for the program. [laughter] how does leadership change but of millenials is because of what has been democratized and how that changes. The amazing if they in is how you have to be born at a certain time to have leadership profile. To take a look at 50 or 500 years what would constitute in the year 1500 is different from 2000. You have to be physically quite strong and be a lawyer to allow being seen as a leader in 1700 it was education. They gave you gravitas so they deferred to a Leadership Today the most important characterization is the ability to persuade. It is extraordinary how all persuasion is the coin of the overall the point about millenials weld it is true some dont like bureaucracy they are more committed to institutions and building them from three generations were like grandparents or great grandparents. The entrepreneurialism etfs that we see they want to solve this problem to get an institution. They have interesting things do say and to if you want to reform something you have to be the insider. Profits can make the headlines but they cannot make a real difference to have to be an insider to make the change. Fate q. One of the questions that i had with that influence how is it is that the lots of americans have seen the influence of cronyism that the people with the best representation on the k street or trade associations can get ahead while you see people muddling by . How do you square that to be incredible leader but still have that cash jay that you are not just getting by on your connections or influences . Been talking about jordan with his friendship to clinton may be not anything other than the ability to persuade people who are powerful but what about that ability to the door to be authentic that people just get by at the top because they know the right people in the right numbers. I have to say with that situation in washington i am pretty discouraged because the way in which our political conversations had default i dont take have been healthy. When i talk with our students they are very hopeful they can make the change but also discouraged about the structure. But to tweak a bill that i would assume jordan got where he was because of clinton but actually clinton got to where he was because of jordan because he was going to a conference for a number of years and it is the power elite Global Organization very selective and he brought bill clinton to the conference in they said who is this guy from work arkansas . He brought him in 1991 sure enough he helped to create a lot of opportunity. Youre seeing a blurring of the nonprofit for profit line, so people are is selling shoes because that can help build water wells in africa, those kinds of things. But the partisanship of washington and the role of big money is a place of realties couragement. Is a real discouragement. Right up here. Hi. Im karen getman, and i want to ask really both of you about the role of gender and race. You talked about view from the top with a particular institutional point of view, ask youre saying its more entrepreneurial. Im wondering, is this only ins the United States . Is it global . And really whats the role for women . And where the interviews that youve had with women and people of color, where theyre contributing to a different view of what is the top in and artists and musicians. Thank you. So the study is focused onan. The United States. I think maybe there were just a couple leaders who were based internationally, so i dont have a lot of response for the global question, but regarding women i think 10 of the study where women and it was not for lack of trying. It was a major priority to interview women and defineitel senior leaders, its just atlo this point theyre very hard to find. So they definitely do add a lot. I think theyre still struggling with the second shiftme requirements of women, women who work, spend a lot of time in the workplace, and they go home, theyre responsible for household responsibilities as well. So thats still a barrier, but were talking about relationships. I do think, actually,es mentorships are key for women and minorities, its something currently they can seek out, and some of the studied to seek out women minorities and really tos help them move up the chain as a way the teach them that the social cues and get them some of the advantages that they missed. Yeah. One of the interesting paradoxes of the study, only about 10 of the responsibilities are women. Respondents are women. Rk looking at sort ofed the wider data, thats about right for what we see nationally whether were talking about women ceos or Women College president s or women heads of nonprofits. There are some industries where women have more leadership roles. Actually, in the entertainment sector you see that some women are in leadership opportunities and in higher education. On the, but the paradox is that there is an segment of people wo are part of whats been called the inner circle. Th theres a social scientist as wharton at the university of pennsylvania who studied what he called the inner circle where these are folks who are on multiple boards of directors. Ctr so you might be a director at General Electric and a director at ibm. And if you actually analyze it, what you found is that women and people of color areente overrepresented inside that inner circle. And part of it, i think, started as tokenism. S so every fortune 500 company wanted to have a woman, and thed didnt know who were the women to go to, so they all chose theo same women. Ma and they began to spread it around. Nd but you see that also happening with latinos and with africanamericans. Thats changing a little bit, and theres more of a trickle down effect, and so there are more opportunities today. M but id say that probably the most significant finding about the gender divide is, relates te work life balance. So i would ask the people in the study, you know, how do can you reck how do you reconcile the challenge of being in this very demanding job with an enriching family life, and how do you manage that . 96 of the people i interviewed were married at the time i conducted the interview which is unbelievable. Not all of them were first marriages, but theres something about leadership that is quite lonely and that cravess companionship. L both men and women talked about the challenge of balancing a busy job with a enriching family life. But to a person, every singlencn woman was far more anguished about that challenge. They felt considerable guilt and frustration, a desire for them to figure out how they couldd have donthe it better. Everything from managing childcare to caring for aging parents. There is within our culture still the norm that women carry the burden for caring for the family, and as a result, Women Leaders feel that pressure as well. Percentage of women who were married and had children versus men. We will take two more questions. I am curious to know in your book at all if you address other than economic and political leaders, my own personal example is within the Anglo Community and i didnt know if you had addressed that within the sectors. We included a whole variety of leaders. Leaders in science, technology, entertainment, art, media, education. In the arts we included performers, writers, directors, a whole range of folks and in the end it was a wonderful project because we were able to see if there were significant differences in the folks. Those who were leaders in the creative sectors have different paths. They tended to embody this liberal arts approach to art more readily and they were conversed on a range of issue and able to build connections in lots of ways. We looked at religious leadership as well and many of the bureaucratic challenges the Corporate Leaders face are similar to religious labels. Conflicts can be found in the church as well. Big news. So many hands. I will start right here. My question is on what you were saying about women and leadership and my experience is women can get to the top but many feel they sacrifice having children or a husband or perhaps have had a fail marriage or marriages, more than two. Can you talk about whether you felt that men felt differently than women with respect to that. As we were researching gender, i actually found there has been a lot of research and we saw the reasons about how men with feeling more need to be more involved fathers. They said my dad would never have gone to my soccer games but i am expected to go. It does affect men more frequently. There is more expectation they will do more with the house and kids. It is possible to have a high leadership position and a good family life. But you cannot do anything else. No hobbies, friends, you just have your family and your work. But that is really the only way to make it work. I think one thing we found that helped people balance is if leaders prioritize rituals and routines. If they make a ritual of every sunday i am going to make panca pancakes and i am going to be there kids think this is what it is to have a good father. Leaders, when you are at the top, you can set the meetings and set them around your kids soccer game or recital and use that as a way to stay connected. It is possible but there is not much time for much else. We will take one more question. I was wondering about the ones that got away. So you interviewed over 500 over ten years but have you thought about the ones that got away and anything common among them and think things we can learn from those that didnt want to share. The common thing was they were good at being elusive. The biggest fish that got away was bill clinton. I was relatively close to meeting him a view times but it fell through and i regretted that. After i did 200300 the number of new ideas i was encountering was that great. But i set a goal and the largest studies was by columbia and they interviewed 545 people so i was going to do 546. I was in the middle of this research and it was january of 2011 and i turned to my wife and i said i have been working on this for seven years and still have 90 interviews to reach the goal but i think i might get to serve at Gordon College and i dont know how i would do both or finish the study. And she sat up in bed and said you are going to. So you know who the leader is in our household. I hope you buy the book and thanks for coming out. [ applause ] thank you michael and mary grace. If you did not a chance to ask your question, fear not. There is opportunity to do so either on our Facebook Page or twitter feed at trinityform or viewfromthetop. And tomorrow we will post photos from the event and we encourage you to log on and tag your friends and add comments and so on. All of you should have on your seat an invitation to join the trinity form society and we hope you will avail yourself of the opportunity. Events are not possible like this without the support of members and donors. If you have enjoyed tonight, i encourage you to join and make events possible like this for others. As a special incentive to join tonight we will give you a free back of view from the top as well as our subscription to quarterly readings. In addition, if you are interested in becoming a Trinity Forum academy fellow we encourage you to thing about. There are people in the audience you can talk to. Bob crammer or doug chapman. And i think it is only appropriate to end with thanks and there are many people to thank this evening. We very much appreciate our speakers and the insight you have brought. Appreciate Gordon College sponsoring the event. And the staff there. And i would like to thank my own incredible and competent staff and who do their job wonderfully. Rebecca good. Margaret and elias thank you vore much. [ applause ] and thank you to the volunteers. We appreciate your work. Michael will be at the Registration Table outback w

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