Transcripts For CSPAN2 Bret 20240706

Actually, you know what . Im going to ill ask you the first question. Okay and ill ask you a question back there. Go. Incidentally, if you if you dont read and then theyll sort of the long form interviews that he does occasionally in the in the new york times, there worth reading. A great one where he and gail collins said down. And you had a line about the Republican Party is split between reptiles and. Which is a great line even if we dont understand exactly what it means. But what does it mean . Well. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a reptile and Kevin Mccarthy cozying up to marjorie Taylor Greene is the definition of an invertebrate. And. You. The lion, of course is, is is made in the form, a conversation. And so its little sharper than it ought to be because there are, in fact, a lot of terrific republicans who stand up for a set of principles which i broadly share. And those are the republicans who actually won their elections in november or or outperformed in in their elections. But i worry about a Republican Party that has, i think, been taken by some of its worst instincts and poor characters. I mean, i remember how good i felt about voting for George W Bush. In 2000, a man who said that family values dont end at the real ground someone who understood that conservatives them all to stand for a set of american traditions which include respect for the immigrant, which include the value of which seek bipartisan compromises where they are available, and even when theyre not refuses to treat democrats as the enemy. And i think that was a form of conservatism that. Both president bushes stood for, which i had a of time for. I thought it was a not only an honorable tradition in many ways. Right tradition, but ive been saying this to all of you in the room who are not republicans or conservatives. Want in any in any healthy democratic society. The health of it really depends on the health of its conservative party. And we used to have when the conservative party was led by like the president , both president bushes, president reagan, john mccain, mitt romney, very healthy conservative movement right now we dont have that. My view and id love know more interested know yours but that seems to me a real problem not just for the Republican Party but for the for for for the United States itself. So let me turn the question back on you. Do you think that line was was unfair . How do you see state of the Republican Party today . Well, first of all, i thought it was a great line. Im not it was fair, but it was a great line. And look, i dont understand your animus city towards marjorie Taylor Greene. Shes put finger on a vital problem facing the country which is the presence of jewish space lasers starting fires in northern california. I am deeply concerned about and i think its something we ought to take seriously. You know, i just should stop right there because there are some jerk right now, whos going to pretend youre speaking serious. So i loved it when she and matt gaetz came and said, well, our endorsement a primary is more important than karl. So i thought, who the hell is concerned about that . But you know, look, our our party has always weird elements. You know, we had the birchers in the fifties, sixties and seventies and weve had weve had david as we made the, you know, the southern the southern swing, we began to get some very ugly but but this is different because its animated i think in large measure not by values or views. Its animated by a persona and process. I want to get on cable tv and the way to do that is to say really ugly things. You know, i want to have good response in my digital fundraising. So ive got to be really ugly and i want to be im not interested in being a legislator. Im interested in being a character. And so dont Pay Attention to developing strong with my fellow committee and working, figuring out what it is i to work on, on Financial Services and seeing if i can find common ground. I just i just want to Say Something extreme that gets me invited to steve war room and i think thats not healthy. But id take your point and broaden it little bit. I think the country is better off. We have two prosperous, sensible Political Parties that are that are strong and right. Both parties are weak in part because of what weve done with the financing and so forth. A of technical things. But theyre also broken because in part because success of the republican was animated for a long and i think youve written about this by hostility to soviet communist form to world war ii communism and we won that battle at least with regard to the soviet union. And as a result we started to fray at the and the Democratic Party had led a long and honorable crusade for human rights, for the right of all, regardless of color, to participate in the american dream. And that has had a great deal of success. And so were off trying to figure out what the next thing is and both parties are are as a result, you know, sort of confused about what future holds. But theyre also vulnerable to takeovers by a strong and it just so happened at least in our our party it was overtaken by a personality i love when calls me a rhino karl rove loser total loser. Hes hes a rhino. Hes a rhino. Because because i remember being for George W Bush in 2004 when he was for john kerry, in fact, were off the record. Youre right. No press. So i end up in a meeting in may of 2020 asking me 2016 with trump at the new york apartment of a mutual friend. And its it was like the weirdest 3 hours of my life. And at one point in the conversation, hes talking to our to our friend and says the other jeb, jeb needs to Say Something nice about me. Youre very bad loser. Hes not saying nice things. I somebody needs to talk to him. And he was clearly saying to my friend, you know, the guy sitting to me needs to Say Something, jeb, i said, well, if i were you, id just drop it. Jeb sort of a sort of a guy whos got strong feelings and it makes you look weak because, you know, youre to tell him to say nice things about. And remember, it just reminds people that you said about a dozen times that you wouldnt support the nominee of the party if you didnt, you were treated fair. Do you think jeb thinks you treated fairly . So if you i dropped the i, i drop that all he said. Well the older bush the old man he needs to Say Something nice about me. I said no, no, hes 91 years old. He beat his boy. Hes earned the right to sit on the sidelines. He says, well, the younger bush, the younger. But she needs to Say Something nice about. I said, you know, no, he doesnt. I said, you were for john kerry in 2004. I dont think so no, i dont know. I said well in october of 2004, you said you agreed with george bush on tax cuts, but you agree, john kerry on the war and tax cuts were yesterday and the war was now. That sounds to me like the guys getting ready to vote for john kerry. Well, i dont remember. I, i said, well, you are the guy that gave a lot of money to two elect nancy pelosi speaker in 2006. And in march of 2007, you were asked how good she was doing and you said youre doing a wonderful job, except hasnt done enough to impeach George W Bush. And i said he said, well, yeah. And i said youre also the guy who said that he knew about 911 in advance and let 3000 people die in order to plunge country into war and. Youre also the guy who said he deliberately lied about the intel in iraq. He said, well i guess i said those things and i said, so i wouldnt be counting on him saying anything nice about. You let me ask you, carl, do you. I wrote a column right after the midterms in which which was titled Something Like donald trump is finally and and its going to look really bad for me in the annals of punditry if that turns out to be wrong. But i dont think im wrong. Where do you think trump now in the Republican Party . Yeah, well, you may be right and you could be wrong. Both of us have counted that guy out. Let me just find one thing here to answer question. I think that. I think that a couple of things about him and about him decline and this this is a piece thats in the wall street journal tomorrow really wellwritten deeply impressed with the work thats gone into. I think ive done a hell of a job with it myself, but this is these were interesting numbers in. December in the usa today suffolk poll. People were asked two questions would you vote for republicans . Will you vote for him if hes if he runs . In other words, will you vote for him for the nomination and you want him to run the percentage that want him to run in december was 31 . Now. 57 , actually 60 something percent. In july, 50 some odd percent in november. And 47 in december that they would vote for him. But and think about that. Yeah, weve got 16 of the people who say, im willing to vote him, but i really wish he wouldnt run. And you only have 1 that say, given my druthers, thats the guy. So somethings going on there and. Whether thats going to turn out to be the case, i think all depends on who the other candidates are and how well they run. And particularly the question of how big is the field. Heres other great numbers. And i literally had do a spreadsheet. Theres this thing called excel. Its amazing. I recommended to. Think about this in february of 2016, he won 34 of the vote in the two primaries that month and got 84 of the delegates in early march primaries. He won 33. There were 15 of them. He won 33 of the vote and got 45 of the delegates in the latter part of the month. He had 46 of the vote but took 67 of the delegates. And the reason was we had too many people left in the race at that point. So they were splitting up the vote, not getting the threshold, get a delegate, but thereby giving him an inordinate grasp over over the over the delegate hall. So the question is going to be one of the key questions is going to be a tactical one how quickly do people say, well, i had a run, but i dont really have a chance and im out of here. And thats awfully hard. Do i think its going to happen, but its awfully hard once you have the ambition to run for president , its hard to say. Well, you know, but, you know, if i stay in and a couple more primaries maybe itll be like South Carolina for biden. Somebody will save me. But both of those, i think, are going to be critical. Is the governor of florida going to run president . Yeah. Yeah. He yeah, sure. He he is. It was i think being announced today or maybe was announced last night. Hes coming to dallas, texas, houston, texas, on the third and 4th of march to speak at the lincoln day dinners of the major of those two major county republican parties. You dont do that unless you got a hankering to do something more than, you know, entertain. At the Governors Mansion in tallahassee. But theyre to be a lot. Weve got a conference coming up on february 24th. We have a big registration project in texas and. We have come in Chris Christie. Nikki haley, brian kemp, interesting. Mike pence, tim scott, chris sununu, Chris Christie and Kevin Mccarthy. And some of those people are, you know, because theyre thinking about it in their party. The governor of maryland, governor larry hogan. Larry hogan, former governor, former governor of maryland. Yeah. No, not coming. Nobody knows him in texas. Yeah, texas. Yeah. So the Republican Party today, the richest, have kind of a long, strange trip or. Is it permanently altered . I yes. To both. Its had a weird trip and. It will be altered in some ways. Im not certain how big the ways will be and ill be interested. Your reaction . I think this whole Popular National National Populism of, you know, we are going to be America First was a meeting where neo isolation us we want to withdraw from the world that aint gonna work. I dont think its there. I mean its like its like people opposition to bidens retreat from afghanistan was not. Hey you boggled it and 13 americans died in it in kabul was why the hell are you giving up the advantage and letting the bad guys win . And so is an element in our party that our new isolation but the vast majority of them retain instinct. That is, america has a role to play in the world. And Ronald Reagan was, right. Peace through strength. But there are some things i there is a healthy concern, i think, among a lot of people for what do we need to do for people are not staying up for for the working middle class that has fallen behind now a lot of that you know my economic and my economist friends say a lot of that is exaggerated. But but there are a lot of people who think, you know, i got a long service and dayton, ohio, and its hard to make meet and its because, you know, the government helps those who got a lawyer in washington, a lobbyist in the law and a loophole in the law in the system made fair. And there are some real needs, it strikes me, to reinvigorate training programs, alternate to college. I mean, the whole idea that everybody has to go to a four Year University in order to have a good career. We need to get rid of that. Weve got a little ranch in blanco, texas, and a ranch foremans grandson wants to become a welder, doesnt need to go to college for. That and we tell him, well, well send you to state teachers, to texas state technical college, where in 18 months you can become a welder and hell start out making 105,000 a year. And at age of 19 and we got it. So there are some healthy things there. And weve all got to deal with the issue of big tech. I have no idea. I mean, it strikes me that social media is so corrosive and so powerful. And these algorithms are so addictive and such a corrosive impact on. Our social dialog that something weve got to look into it. But i have no idea. The answer is so my, you know, conservatism has always a kind of. Two faces. Theres a conservatism emphasizes, first of all, National Anti borders, sovereignty, tradition. Thats a european style conservatism. There is an american tradition of conservatism, which is very different, which is the idea that what the idea that what should be conserve is itself a liberal order. The constitu is a liberal document declaration is a liberal document. So americans conservatism, as i have always treasured it, hinges on the idea that were trying to preserve or conserve is that Old Fashioned liberal ideal that politics exists to maximize the liberty of the responsible exercise liberty by the by the individual so long as it doesnt impinge on the liberty of his his fellow man or woman and in addition to that, you might say that that vision is enhanced when when support habits of mind that create more responsible citizens. So conservatives believe in the family, we think. And theres a lot of empirical evidence to show this, that products of stable two parent households tend to have Better Outcomes in life than those who are not. Say that people who arent children of Single Parents cant succeed, but their chances are diminished. We believe in institute tions like the military because we think there character forming. We believe in the value of business because. Its has qualities that are both institute rational but also risk taking. So theres a whole architect of values and virtues that go into maximizing the liberty of the individual. But at the end of the day, vision of american conservatism doesnt forget that this was uniquely conceived to defend unalienable rights, not the least of which is the pursuit happiness, a profoundly subjective and individualistic belief. And i think the Republican Party, fundamental change between 2016, 2015 and the present in that abandoned that vision of conservatism, which i think reagan championed. But the bushes championed mccain championed. So on to something closer to an Old Fashioned blood and soil conservatism that has more in common with characters like viktor orban in hungary or. Some of the more or mrs. Le pen, Marine Le Pen in france than it has to do with with the american version in the american version of conservatism that admire is what in europe is called liberalism. Right . If you go to holland, its liberal party that more or less champions my, my, my view. I think the challenge for the Republican Party today the question mark for the Republican Party today is cannot find way back from kind of trumpian you know borders national, polity trying to reverse the 14th amendment to get rid of birthright, birthright citizenship, to go back to a different version to that earlier version. And i think you could actually profit as result for that for some of the reasons that you mentioned, which is that the Republican Party at its best is a party that stands aspiration. Its not about winners in society its not about people who are rich but its about people who are aspiring to be rich or at least aspiring to be a little richer than they are a little better off a little a little better educated. Thats the sweet spot for the Republican Party. Its got to figure out how to get back there. And its going to take a while. Yeah, well, i couldnt agree more with what you said i have a slightly different on the nature of where we i dont think were in as bad shape when it comes to the rank and file. The Republican Party as as it might be thought after the last couple of years. You mentioned strivers. Why is it that were doing better among working, noncollege educated and noncollege educated blacks, particularly younger men . And why are we doing better among hispanics . Certain kinds of hispanics, latinos tejanos in texas, theyre being affected by the border and part, but theyre also being affected by the fact of the energy you got. Theres a high school in far texas. They will graduate from high school in special program. If you can apply, and get in, which will give a cdl license. Anybody know what a kid license is means . You can drive a truck and these kids are getting out high school and far texas and going to work in the oil patch making six figures to start and what the what whats in south texas is the further you get the more you get into oil country the Rio Grande River and the bigger shift between 2016 and 2020 because they said, wait a minute i got a job in the oil patch and want to kill hydrocarbons. They want to take my job away. And my wifes working at the cafe and good tips from the oilfield crowd that comes in for lunch and they want to ruin that then you go to south florida where you got not just the cubanos but the venezuelans and the colombians. And theyre sitting there saying. Those democrats are starting to sound like we want we want the freedom, aspiration and opportunity strive that the republicans to be for. So i think, you know, im brit and i share an affection immigration and so as i around the country ive sort of fly into it and you know yeah weve got to control the border. I mean, i spent a lot of time in the white house over seven years doing crazy stuff to try and catch and release because. Bush felt a precondition to getting comprehensive Immigration Reform, was stopping the border crossings as much humanly possible, and particularly ending catch and release get the people released and they dont show up for a date are court dates. So but when i get this issue and i say and people say, no way, amnesty, i say, well, okay, fine, no amnesty. But let me ask you something. Somebody comes here. Theyve been here for years. What we say you got a surface within a certain period of time, like six months. Youve got to give us fingerprints so we can check and see if you committed a crime. But if you havent, you stay here if you want to work, but you got to here employer. You has got to pay a fee to to check and make certain youre keeping paying your taxes and keeping your nose clean. And if you want to become a citizen, but you have to go to the very back of the line, nobody gets in front of you. I mean, everybody gets in front of you. You dont get in front of anybody. So it means itll take you 13, 15 or 18 years before you can become a citizen. And when you do, youre going to have to know how to read, speak and write english and youre going to have to pass a test as citizenship test. Thats more than the one that weve got today, which is whats the capital, america, buffalo saint washington, d. C. , or palm springs. I mean, and even the hard is immigration will say, well, that makes sense. Many of them, at least the ones who can be one. I think we are conservative movement is desperate for who will stand up and say heres our vision and its positive and optimistic and it is based on exactly principles small l liberalism. Our goal is that all people are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inheritable rights and. Thats what we in a you know why we favor limited government and the greatest realm of personal and personal freedom. And were not blood and soil, you know, were not were not you. America is an idea and it is the fact that we have strive for that ideal since the founding of the country then that july 4th creation of the declaration of independence thats what america is about and thats when people you know, thats what gives people. Its not that, you know, geez, my my forebears came here and on the soil of, you know, plymouth rock, you know, 16, 20. I mean, its that we came to america with nothing and up being given the opportunity to become you know, you reminded me of a great story George Balanchine the choreographer had a succession ballerina wives. Not all of them were the cleverest. And at 1. 11 of them was trying to get her immigration to get citizenship. And kept failing her her the quiz, the test. And so finally a very wellintended immigration officer came to balanchines home and was giving her the test. She was getting one question after another wrong finally said, okay, lady, just one more thing. Who was just just get this question right. Who was the first president of the United States . She goes, oh, this know George Washington bridge. Yeah. You know, not to get too personal about this, but this really is i mean, this immigration is both a great challenge for the republicans and great opportunity. The challenge is if we stop it and secure border and look i feel im seeing what its doing to my state im what its doing to border communities and its terrible. And the federal government is failing this responsibility. But we also need to look at the other side of the equation, which is look in your own history, look in your own history. I went to the white house and i hung up on my office wall at the white house, the passports of the First American rove, olive julius rove, my my father, who lived here in this town sent them to me on 2001, and i had them frame and hung in my office in the white house of julius rove, which about whom i knew little except this. He was 16 years old. And the second son of a poor peasant family, and he had no prospects. I visited the family farm and hauled to norway. It is the size of a soccer field. It is barely larger than this room. And he had no prospects and. Somehow they cobbled together enough money to send him. At the age of 16, speaking not a word, english, first to brooklyn and then on a train to milwaukee. And there he was met by his cousin in the middle of the winter and lived that first winter in the barn of. His distant cousin in devils lake, wisconsin, and he body and soul together. He made a lift up desk and by the spring hed learned enough to talk his way into getting hired. By the fall, he talked his way into. The university of wisconsin. He worked his way through literally flinging cow dung and doing he possibly could to make his way through school. He graduates, he ends up his best friends sister moves to milwaukee, begins to sell insurance to fellow norwegians and becomes a prosperous insurance man and the honorary vice council of norway in milwaukee. What i did not know is, i hung up his picture. I did not know the next of the story. The norwegian ambassador was thrilled. Were two norwegian americans in the white house. Me, admiral, now admiral mike miller, former commander of the u. S. Reagan battle group and superintendent of the naval academy. But back then, he was head of the white house military and we were all norwegian. So the norwegian ambassador us each a box of king hope and chocolates about this big and gave us it for christmas and it was very popular for a couple of days as everybody came by and got their chocolate and everybody saw these passports and he saw the picture that i had of all of julius rove very, imperial looking guy. And he was into, you know, dinner black, you know, dinner dress. It had a funny little emblem hanging underneath his tie. He said, whos that . I explained to him who he was. He said, whos interested . You know what that is said . I have no idea. So couple of weeks later, i got invited to a dinner, the Norwegian Embassy and as rock star one can tell you, you dont want to go to embassy dinners if youre at the white house because everybody climbs on you. You need to see the president take his to the president. So anyway. But i said, what the hell . Its a norwegian so we went and it turned out it was four people. My, my, my wife, me and me and the ambassador and we had a lovely reindeer with lingonberry sauce. And at the end at the end of the meal, the ambassador says, you dont seem know much about your predecessor or your forebears. So i thought you might enjoy and gave me two file folders, one copies of documents in the original, all in norwegian and the other translation norway becomes, an independent country. In 1905 and shortly after all, all of julius rove is invited to become first ambassador of an independent norway. The United States change of letters. You know, his majesty is authorized to offer you this position. Would you do this my here would require back and forth. Back and forth. Finally, he sends a letter and says it is with great regret that i must decline his majestys kind invitation. It would require me to give up my u. S. Citizenship a prize, a dear. The little emblem. The little emblem is the order of olive. The president ial medal, freedom for norway, for all the work that he did, he never forgot he was an so some poor kid gets off the train in milwaukee and needs a warm place to stay and a hot and a train ticket to the farm country further west. That was his job. He started out as nothing nothing. He here with nothing and his great grandson got to work in white house. And i have desk. I keep that desk in my front foyer so that when i walk every day, i remember i am three generations away from a discard. Im three generations away from the kind person that the rest of the world throws away and the United States adopts holds to its heart and has turned this country into the greatest country on the face of the earth. Can i make a suggestion . That was a beautiful story. We got 13 minutes left. Were supposed to talk about conservatism is today. Why dont we open up for some audience questions and well take as many as as we can as we can feel shouted a question, not a not a speech. Yes. What do each of think is the most important issue . Talking for 2023 in terms of policy or politics or power . Yeah. First, weve to keep america strong. Im worried about dangerous world in which we live, and right behind that is we need to begin take incremental steps to put our fiscal house in order. Medicare Hospital Trust fund goes belly up in a couple of years 2035. Social Security Trust runs out of money. We need to take the spending programs in the government. We dont need to cut. We to restrain. If we restrain future growth of Government Spending less than the increase in the size of our economy, then we ourselves some time. But weve got to put fiscal house in order. I would say two things Economic Growth which can only be look i have very little faith seeing any congress get control of any kind of spending the only way that problem is to be solved is if you grow the denominator and you grow it through unleashing the potential of the American People to innovate create value. And so a dynamic economy that recognizes us, that we have to press every advantage we have, including the advantages we have in our north American Energy market is going to be vitally important. But to me, we are living through 1940 all over again and. What is happening in ukraine . What is happening across the straits between taiwan and, china and the potentially impending nuclear of iran . Are threats that are as serious as america has seen in in generations. And if we dont address forcefully, quickly and create a pedagogy in, americans, understand that our interests home depend on what happens in donbass or taiwan, or were going to be a world of trouble. So that question of national strength, particularly at a moment like this, is is what really animates me. Yeah. Apropos of this comment about growth, i recommend a a thin, brilliant volume called the growth deficit by James Pearson have read this i have nothing but a stab list because he makes exactly that point. Theres only so much we can do in a modern economy to restrain spending, particularly when so much of it is his mandatory, but he makes the point that if we do not Pay Attention to the growth side of it, we have growth deficit in the country, we grow the economy stronger a lot of our problems begin to get less demanding and less harmful in the short run. And we have time to to make reforms that are right an image just very briefly Immigration Reform is to education. We have shrinking labor force or a static labor force. You cant grow the economy if you arent growing a population. And dont forget, most our fortune 500 companies are run by either immigrants or the children of immigrants. They are the dynamic side america because theyre the ones who are striving for something the most. What about the how is the Republican Party about Early Childhood care, particularly the underserved, the child . Ive got a grandchild yeah, weve a republican feel about Early Childhood and it aint at the top of the list for the underserved. Well we have a lot of we have lot of programs for the underserved but but the Biggest Program we can have for them is to get quality education. We are failing our children. Yes, thats what im saying. Yeah. No, were were absolutely failing our children. Well, it has head start, which we spend a lot of money on has absolutely no impact. Improving the learning experience and the learning curve of children. Were spending money on programs that dont work because been spending money on programs that dont work and were just sort of stuck. Weve got to, you know, Lincoln Lincoln was a conservative, but he also said, as our case is new, so must we think and act anew. And we ought to be looking at these things that were doing in government and figuring out are these things working. And if not, what can we do to do better . You know, for example, programs that are focused at you remember phonics. We now know that phonics in kindergarten first, second and third grade delivers incredible improvement in the reading scores of our children. And yet, because it was Old Fashioned, weve dropped it when we ought to be focused on, because its the thing that will allow children to escape failed failed schools. I mean think about i just was i was in washington, d. C. Last weekend and the question came up on Fox News Sunday of education. And i said, where the district of columbia,. 50 of the students who enter schools in the Nations Capital never from high school, that is a stain on our country. And thats so im yeah, we are we are focused on things but its not you know a lot of this is of like woo woo and a lot of is things that actually have been proven to work. And we ought to be focused. Those stories can you comment on the Supreme Court in the conservative, conservative bent that we had the interpretation our constitution it seems to be from one party different from the other party. I that we need to take a look at that in some way. Id like to hear your comments. Well, ill probably more of a Justice Roberts conservative than i am a justice conservative in that i think that the court also ought to respect the legislatures and it ought to respect the fact that abrupt social changes foisted on the country from six unelected people are often very bad idea. When i grew up, i used to people like bob bork, who said, you know, we dont elect the Supreme Court is not a body of philosopher kings. And so i had real i dont know what were called for stance on this. I had real problems with the Dobbs Decision because for 49 years american women in particular but americans had taken it as a right to access to Abortion Services and that was abruptly withdrawn. Now, some of my conservative friends say, well for more than 50 years, the terrible plessy decision stood. And just because it had long been precedent didnt mean that the warren court was wrong to overturn it in brown versus board. To me, to my mind, thats fundamentally different. Plessy withdrew a right, which then brown helped restore roe extended the right which dobbs now withdraws and. I think thats that was a problematic for the court. It could have taken even being mindful of sort of the states rights argument it could have taken a much more deliberate. I think that was a badly decided case. Now dont come back to me in four months when i am cheering the of affirmative action in harvard North Carolina cases who wasnt who said a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin small minds. It was emerson so im going by his standard but i. I expect the court will reverse reverse sparky and those decisions. I think itll actually be good for the country and i acknowledge the inconsistency im not sure it is inconsistent because berkeley took away a right the right to be treated fairly and thats true you know ive never understood how saying to somebody going to end discrimination by discriminating against and in berkeley essentially you know created a right to discriminate particularly if just happen to be bright and Asian American for example im with you the court has attention and conservatives i think have to that tension the tension is on the one hand they are the defender of the constitution as written and on the other they have to live in a society that is 200 and some odd years changed end deal. Exactly what what was talking about for 50 years we had a right and they could have modified that right instead abandoning that right and that thats the tension conservatives face. But in the case of berkeley, you know, it was it was creating a right for some who felt discriminated against. Youre going to be aided affirmatively but it was at the expense of treating else unfairly. And we we got just a couple of minutes. But this this is also brings up the issue of education and the issue of in education. I was appalled that one of the great Public Schools in america, Thomas Jefferson high school in county, virginia, basically discriminated bright young people who were overwhelmingly asianamerican by saying, were not going to let know that theyre National Merit scholars, which would allow them to get into universities, might not otherwise get in to get scholarships, that theyre not otherwise to be accessible, get access to. Because weve decided that this is, you know, this is inappropriate behavior because have privilege or they have privilege because theyve got a brain and applied it and its interesting. I think this is one of the rare moments where something that emerged on its own during the years of of the trump was in power, whether it was defund the police or this kind of weirdness. And, you know, were going to were going to change the name of Abraham Lincoln high school in San Francisco because Everybody Knows he was a bigot. And this kind of stuff has sort of united the Republican Party this time of trump. But i dont think it happened because of trump. I think it happened because. These things came up and the natural average instincts of conservatives, you know, we respect the police and we believe in tradition and we believe in fairness and we believe in rewarding hard effort, suddenly became offended. Some of these lunatic notions. Yes, maam. Would you reveal who you prefer as the republican for the president . I would prefer the republican candidate. Well, of the contenders now, if i my druthers, id probably choose nikki haley, who seems to be moving that i dont think shes going to win. I think, frankly, she sells better with like you than. Run of the mill republican voters. But i think she carried herself with a great deal of intelligence, composure, and she represents aspects, American Life that i really admire, especially that aspirational side that know her family, her life story is is such an emblem of, look, i suspect the candidate will be ron desantis. Ron desantis has figured out that the Republican Party is a three legged stool. One leg is sort of trumpy owned. The libs stool and hes very good at that. He is by far better than the master in in that department the other leg is evangelical and the third one is sort of chamber of commerce, republican republicanism. And i dont know how many of you have been in florida, but the place is hopping. It is it is it is a state that is doing well and thats reflected in a near 60 majority that Governor Desantis took when he when he ran. So there are aspects about his personality grate on me. But if he runs most democrats i would probably for him. Yeah, yeah. I dont have a favorite. I want to win so im doing everything can to give give him good coverage and entree to good people who want to help and promote him as best i can. And lets see who. Lets let him go out and the one thing i would say is i will vote ever. I would rather vote for Bernie Sanders than anyone denies the election. Anyone who denies basic democracy anyone, who isnt playing by the rules of the game and thats that thats foundations. Now im im there im there with you on running for but i have to admit i have too many friends in the congress who you know were not courageous on that issue and and so but im not going to hold it against him because they were afraid of going home and getting primaried and also, lets be honest about an election denialism. Remember, the sainted representative lewis of georgia, what a great man, an election denier, George W Bush win the 2004 election computers transferred 122,000 votes from john kerry in ohio, George W Bush. And thats the only way werent won. Thats what thats thats what thought so we both have their own election deniers whether its Stacey Abrams or Elijah Cummings or congressman lewis. And but im not to hold it. And i dont want anybody who thinks that way to run for president and theyre not going to get my vote. But i have to admit, i do have friends among the House Republicans who were less than courageous when standing up and saying hello. I wrote a column. I think ten days after the election saying all this hubbub is not going to change outcome of the election because no election, no statewide election in modern american history, that has been reversed, was had more than couple of hundred votes contested, less than a thousand votes. You should have seen. Donald trump sent me that day. But, you know, i understand politics is practical and some of my friends were like, you know, im ducking and im not going to blame them for ducking. But when it comes to the presidency, i want to i want somebody to go out there and demonstrate that they unite the party, that they have a and optimistic vision for the future, the country, and that, by god, theyre going to get in there and get us back on the right