Transcripts For CSPAN2 Capitol Hill Hearings 20130831

But doesnt bend on its own. To secure the gain the country has made require cos vigilance, not complacence. Whether its by challenging those who erect new barriers to the vote, or ensuring that the scale of justice work equally for all in the criminal Justice System and not simply a pipeline from underfunded schools to overcrowded jails. It requires vying lance. This weekend on cspan from wednesday the 50th anniversary of the march on washington starting saturday morning at 10 00 p. M. Eastern. Next a young professional and military leaders cohost a Panel Discussion on innovation and National Secure it. I well hear about how inevaluaters and defense professionals can learn from each other and Work Together to keep americans safe. Its hosted by the group Young Professionals in Foreign Policy and disruptive thinkers d. C. This is an hour and a half. Good evening. We are about to get started. Hello and welcome to the Panel Discussion with the Young Professionals in Foreign Policy and disruptive thinkers. Im erich and im the director of the d. C. Chapter. Im precilla im a programmer manager for Young Professionals and Foreign Policy. Its an organization with almost 10,000 members and locations not only here in washington, d. C. , but also in new york city, london and brussels. They are working to foster the next generation of leaders and Foreign Policy and National Security. And you can find lot more about us on our website, you can also find us on facebook, on twitter, and instagram. Certainly one of the things we very much enjoy doing is partnering with other great organizations response [inaudible] disrupted thinkers began in 2011 in san diego. We feature chapters in nashville, austin, and toronto, and d. C. Our mission is to innovate by connecting military government leaders with entrepreneur and creative thinkers to provide the tools and networks we need to bring our disruptive thought in to action. Were bringing these two organizations together today because we both share a common belief that tomorrows leaders in a Foreign Policy and National Secure try going to need the trait of entrepreneurship in order change their organization and agencies. Now i would like that make two introduction. The first is my colleague to my right. Kristin. Shell be live tweeting the event with the twitter account. And shell also be using the two organizations. You can use that to live tweet yourself or later during q a if you dont want to ask a question at the mic you can tweet it with the. Kristin will be monitoring the question and some of them from her mic for the panel list. Now its my pleasure to introduce our moderator. Beth is the director for leadership and organizational study at the office of secretary of defense. Shes been with the department of defense since 2004 when she joined at the president ial management fellow. And also worked in afghanistan while she was there. Prior to her time at dod she embarked in the public and private sector. It i dont know i know you had a chance to read her bee owe. She had a citizenship in frisk, worked in Silicon Valley and most recently thank you for being here, beth. Over to you. Thank you for having me. A very supportive fan and interruptive thinkers which im excited to learn more about. I should thank csis who i know plays them to a lot of these events which is great. And for the audience for taking their time to be here and learn. I think this is an area of inquiry that is very open to people who want to make a change, and to make this kind of investment speak to that commitment of yours. So let me first praise the event organizers for bringing together a really diverse and interesting panel. In which i think reflect a key design element of innovation itself which is diversity. Here on the panel you read their bio on the website, but we have many different perspectives and experiences represented from the civilian world and the military world. It from industry, from development, and also folks who are taking some time to study innovation. To stand back and reflect. So i really appreciate diversity being so acted upon in the event. So just to set the scene, i was going make a couple of assertions. One is you are all here because you are committed to the National Security of the United States and even more poetically a peaceful and globally expected world. My second assertion is that youre interested in responsible for or at the very barest minimum. You are certain somewhere deep in your gut that innovation is an imperative for companies, for governments, for organizations to for their own security but prosperous. Even if you have no clue about how to go innovating in this space youre here because you care about it. And my third assertion is that you dont know for sure the answer to the question that was posed by the event organizers. Innovation and National Security. Do they mix . Even though you dont know the answer, youre curious about exploring it. If all of these things are true, than were in great shape. These are absolutely the necessary ingredients for having a mindblowing conversation about this really important topic. And those, you know, you have the passion, you have the deep curiosity and the commitment to learn. Im going offer the challenge to you and the panelists that we have a different kind of a cfghts than washington typical sees and that conversation is driven by our curiosity and our commitment. And we show that by being asking really Great Questions. In that spirit, i was googling today and found a fantastic quotation from someone i have never heard of before. Apparently hes a famous american poet and also translated dna he said a good question is never answered. It is not a tightened in place but a seed to be planted. And to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of idea. I thought that was a nice theme for the way we go about learning about the topic. And just in case if you consider yourself a little less poet and a little more street fighter. I found one from bruce lee who said, a wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer. So please ask questions. If you forget how, ill step in to help. Okay. So with that, im going turn over to the panelists. Each of them will have about five minutes to introduce some idea to the floor. Maybe share your take on the question thats been posed to all of us, then well open it up to a discussion. With that, go all the way down. Okay. Thank you for the introduction. My thanks to the organizers. This is a real interesting event for me. I know, none of the i know none of you. I know, none of the supporters, sponsor the panelist. Im happy to be claimed by either and both groups as a disruptive thinker and young professional. I feel very welcomed. I will be quick. Very simply, i believe and i hope that National Security innovation makes very well will there are a lot of barrier and constraint. I want to talk about in the q a period. Let me throw a few example in the Development Space where innovation is moving forward, i think, with a degree of intentionality we havent seen in the past, and to kind of spark your interest in that area. Then talk about what that landscape means for Young Professionals in Foreign Policy. So, i guess, i just think is actually you look at the last two administrations in the e her emergence of the 3d thinking development of diplomacy and defense. Development i talk about development. I implicitly assume its in part and supportive of National Security. So ill stipulate that up front. The second these all come from usaid experience. Ic they are indicative throughout the Development Field if you look at donor practice. If you look at nonGovernmental Organizations, academics, philanthropists. They see innovation new use of technology in their application appropriately in the Development Space as ongoing and increasing. And i want to start out with the quote from the administrator who i believe this issue of bringing science and Technology Approaches to the development will be his enduring legacy. He said at the Aspen Institute last year we need to break out of topdown constitutionally driven model of development and adopt an Opensource Development model that empowers more people everywhere to tackling the challenges. Effective development enables a system of free comprise to take hold and connect in a way that protect the opportunity of vulnerable and populations to survive and thrive. Thats a long quote. Usually put on a big powerpoint and people tread rather than tread to you, but a couple of concepts there are Opensource Development and actively involving those people in their own development aided by advances in science and technology. Again, to the benefit of poor populations and vulnerable populations is sort of a leadership guidance were getting. Three quick example. One of the things that start doing is to look at big problems in development in under a program called grand challenges for development have put out what are cases where we need see Scalable Solutions that will affect millions of people, and we have sort of chartered what the problem is and opened up the our design process to solve our community. Being in ak dame ya, private sector, or donor community. We asked all the solutions for quality. Is the solution scalable . Does it have the ability to change millions of peoples lives . Number two, is it adaptable . Is it something that can tbhork a developing world environment . Not a rep indication of something we do in the first world and try to receipt to fit it to the developing world. Three, sustainable . A question we should ask about any kind. A difference between providing the assistance in doing development. And number four, does it take full shrank of 21st century of technology. There are 0 four Development Challenges issued. They are called saving lives so interventions can happen right close birth that would help survivable of mother and children. All Children Reading by age 5 are available to create more literate populations. Making all voices count is on accountability and then powering agriculture and those are a grand scale larger dollar values, and the Second Development innovation and we script the theme were looking at. The Development Innovation venture are wide open as a continuing competition for ideas just some statistics on that over 3,000 applications for developing innovations have been received since 2010. Interestingly, 70 give Development Innovation venture are from new applicant to aid. Its not just going back to the same development community. There are now 60 Solutions Underway in 22 countries. There is a good degree of cost shared for every dollar the aid puts in its getting 70 cents from the and the solutions are coming from all police places. About half come from nonGovernmental Organization. 33 from the private sector, about 13 from academic. The third is the one that im most familiar with. It fell in the area of work i do for the agency, which historically has been democracy and govern mans and then conflict management litigation. Many of you are familiar with the president s policy directive on atrocity prevention. Which said the government of the United States should have a strategy to address atrocity and mass human rights around the world. And what can each agency bring to that fight . And one of the things were doing is called the tech challenge on the atrocity prevention. You can look tat called www. D tech challenge. Org. Its cohosted by usaid and humanity united. We put out five challenges, and ill just list them quickly. What are the way we can identify spotlight and deter so folks in Multinational Corporation or the Banking System or transportation or insurers who may be supporting bad actors who are responsible for contributing to mass atrocities. So how do we spot light that and verify and try to deter that . Second is how can we build greater change of evidence to capture evidence where mass atrocity abuses have occurred . And third, how can we get better predictive capability in communities or countries that are vulnerable to atrocities risk . Charity secure communications between community at risk and how do we goat communities where there is the infrastructure for secure communication finance seem like the bad guys have the communications they need. Who is helping those who are at risk to communicate securely with each other . Wasthis was really a genesis of the tech challenge came out of the experience of the then deep try administrator of iad who was the african director at the time of the rwanda genocide. Looking at what aid was proposing to do what training we were doing. What kind of programmatic response we had in the space said we scrolled been written twenty years ago. Have there been some kind of advance in technology we can bring to bear and thus born the tech challenge . Any each of these cases, i think what it says about innovation it Stands Development thinking from a practitioner point of view on the head. It said we are no longer going define the problem, script the solution, and then contract to grantees or contract to contractors or grantees. This is how you would like to characterize the problem. What we want to do is identify the problem, the challenge, the barrier, then put it out to communities that go well beyond trait additional donor and actors because we believe the complexity of many of these challenges the Solutions Lie the typical discipline that are usually entered in to by Young Professionals historically be it economic, political science, agronomy, whatever. Those Solutions Lie elsewhere. We have to be much more opensource about where we go for the solutions. What does it mean for Young Professionals . With apologies, i have five. I will assert you should think that the hiring public the employees already think you are totally tech savvy whether you are or no. They think you are ipad, itab, icompetent and can solve it. If you are not, realize your competition is closely a generation raised on the interweb or whatever its called. [laughter] second, its get are many important for Just Development of critical analytical skill. The problem globalize, you need the development fairly how do you go about doing that . Its like get smart know. Theres a way to do that. You have to be more intentional about it. You need to be aware about how much the environment has changed. By the time i start my career twenty or thirty years ago, Big Government flows with the dominant iad, the world bank, other donor agency accounted for most of that assistance. Now its not Just Development organizations but in the height of the military about 21 of official Development System came from the department of deafen. Thats just in the United States. The large ere flow thats official assistance. The larger are coming from philanthropist and the chinese, the chinese their official Development Assistance in 2001 was about 1 billion. In 2007 it was 21 billion. Thats significant and just to be situationally aware of the diversity of players in that space. Fourth, that means the skill we traditional change developmental practitioners change. You have to be familiar dealing with private sector, other governments, nongovernmental actor and academia. We look for Solutions Open source you get familiar with how do we deal and the cultures involved . And then fifth, good old change emotional intelligent and the ability to play nice in the sand box. The ability to work with people different than you. Inand give your idea in a collaborative way. Thats a only way we can get to the solution we need. Thank you, neil. So i want to turn to ben to share some remarks, and to think we have seen how hard it is to stick to five minutes. Theres so much to talk about. Theres so much to put out on the table response the challenge is yours, ben. Go for it thank you. Im going preface the remarking i have to say now and the rest and the evening is not representativive i speak a im a fan of asking for forgiveness rather than permission. Innovation is one of the buzz word. And it steams to be a mind set about idea and you get the right then things happen. It doesnt happen unless somebody take the thing from action and execute on them. In the military what im seeing is Junior Officers and junior listed return just returned from war are the ones taking on the actions and making things happen. I think part of this is because a lot of us were sent to an environment that we werent trained for. Not because we got poor training because the war we had to go fight there was no training for. And, you know, infantry officers and the army of marine corps. And others on the ground were trained to fight another state on state actor in the standard military operation. But when they got there, they were faced with basically defeating insurgency and building a country from scratch or two countries from scratch. 25 to 26yearolds were in charge of developing an entire community in the cultural, religious, and economic standpoint. They had to think on their feet and create new solution. They had a lot of leeway and cases to do it. The internal entrepreneurship really created a mind set of doing things and getting things done very quickly. But returning to the united has been a bit of a challenge for some of them. All the sudden they are back in an environment where they have the rules back in place. Not they were breaking the rules before. They had to find new solutions that were reliant upon their own ability. Here in the state is a little bit more state. We have the requirement and straining. Training. We have six or seven layers of bureaucracy we have to go through so we have an idea that needs to be execute what happened were seeing is a lot of these Junior Officers and enlisted personnel are taking it in to their hands. They are making things happen. Within of my friend is a marine corps. Pilot. Recently started a Company Called military traveler. Its an app anybody can go around. If they are traveling from one end the country to another can log on and see every phone number for important base information sense they need. The blq, they want to see a movie. Another friend jeff created a site called military lounge basically an online social media flat form. Ten Junior Officers who put together a startup weekend like event in october. Columbus day try to turn it on the head. Rather than hosting the standard, you know, dod top level people and general for the most part say the same thing and talking point and the conference wondering what happened. Were bringing in some of the innovators and entrepreneurs and veterans side who are making a difference. Every day is starting their own company. And katie she was army intel she ended up creating a company doing stuff here in d. C. App 31 to 32yearold who are making impact at young age. Theyre going to be at the Defense Entrepreneur Forum as well. My current position. This is an organization i think those in our generation. We are the ones who want to make a difference. Were not there to make money or form a company. We want to solve a specific problem. I think with the Entrepreneurial Mind set that a lot of us have we can go do it. I encourage you in your own organization whether its in the military or government or Large Company or your own company take an idea, run with it, if its good enough get stakeholders on board and take action. Hi. Im leon. I cannot believe that thursday right before major holiday and theres this kind of turnout in washington. It which is going on . The city has changed. [laughter] thank you for being here. What an interesting topic. I think i finally figured why i was asked to speak. Im the only guy in town that doesnt have a twitter account. Or whatever you call it. Were here to talk about innovation. And, you know, we make tv shows in the arab world that are here and get millions of viewers and we have a lot of fun doing it. Were story tellers. What we do is classified by the state department as public diplomacy, by dod as information operation, and by other agencies with smaller initials. Something else. But we are and in many respect your typical producers whoa prefer to be behind the camera but not in front of it. Here we are. I love the idea of execution being the new innovation. Since i feel compelled to [inaudible] not shakespeare but will smith. [laughter] he said in the late 90s, somehow hopes and dreams weve got ways means. That dreamers and a lot of classes who want to come to this town, the ones that end up here are usually the astudents and the atype. And yeah, we may not be the sharpest dressers or, you know, maybe hollywood for ugly people as my colleagues in hollywood call it. But here we are. And believe it or not. The people in this room, as it always happens a few years from now theyll be senators and congressman im going stop talking and have a conversation. Im under instructions to moderate a little bit of a discussion among the panelists, but i think we all generally agree that the more interesting interactions are with all of you. So what i thought i would do is throw out one observation or one question that came to my mind as i listened to you all, and you can take a stab eat tat and well open it up. Thats fair. This is our question that i was kind of forcing me to scratch my head as i was thinking about this event. That is how do we think about the relative roles or importance in innovation between and the creativity piece. And the implementation, which, ben you focused on. When i was in business school, they defined innovation for us as three concentric circles, you know, the the economic violent of viability can you make money . Is there an economic model behind it and the technical feasibility. Can it be done . That i think is interesting in term of the question, because it brings all of those pieces together. The easy answer; right, would be that the idea generation. I think execution is scary for a lot of us, because in many cases it involves failure. And none of us want to fail; right . We are all in d. C. Or other organizations that dont really reward failure or allow us opportunities to fail, but i think when you get in the mind set of trying things and learning from them and embracing the 80 solution mind set you gate lot of value out of that. And you also meet people. And i think one of the things i learned most from my time running disruptive thinkers and performing data and being part of the rapid Innovation Cell is relegation networking are one of the thing that we drive them forward. We love gadgets that fly around and go fast in the military, but the cnn l marching orders are right now are pay low over platform which make perfect sense. I would argue the perfect payload is the person with the brain. Thats the most potent and Weapon System created. Im a march so no oven to the people on the development side. Add a manufacturing on a ship find out that somebody is already doing it and see and you, you know, maybe stumble and somebody else comes in and maybe executing against the government bureaucracy and hit the pay wall or legal implication you meet a lawyer who knows how to make a system work for you and you go on a network of people that didnt just dissipate once the project done. If you go to a new project and rely upon the networking later on you have a selfreplicating ad hoc organization that percolates and create more power. And i think when it comes to execution we have to focus on the fact failure is a possibility, but from that failure can come great gains. We shouldnt be afraid of that. Other depends . Well, innovation, National Security, and this town that exists mostly illegally but staffed by people who used to be in the government. That are aided by people who may be junior enlisted folks that innovated and entrepreneurs and made billion and have their layer in las vegas or something and want to give back. Instead of giving back to the institution are helping set up small cell of people who are doers rather than people who are frustrated within the bureaucracy. And, you know, the list of authors who are creating these worlds. Carefully some of the best informed minds in National Security the one that db and Everything Else associated with wellestablished government. The longest government on the face of the planet may be a young country. We have the longest lasting government. Yeah, we have institutions and we have resumes and theres check and balances. And a lot of of times it may not be how to keep the people going to play within the sand box. Its by something who doesnt have to play in the cabbed box. Thats why i talk about if. I dont go to the same frustration that so with that we will, im sure, goat some of the issues about the system and the organization and the support for or hinder innovation. I know, that was one of the question organizations generally i was watching folks here probably familiar with the organizations i was watching a video today and again of some, quote, Something Like we like to fail to learn quickly. And so this is a place where innovation and National Security dont really mix. And around the problem is to start small. To build our risk tolerance by experiments where we can fail fast that we can create Safe Environments so with the objective of learning. I think the American People will understand that as long as were not putting billions and billions of money or people at risk. Great. Its about 7 10. So why dont we open it to the floor. I would ask that if your at the substantial, if youre not at table ill try to refeet for the group. Speak slowly. Any questions . Go ahead. Hi, my name kate lynn. Im a deafen policy analyst, and my question for you, sir you said quote that ended with we have the way and means. I want to ask do we have the ways a means if we do who is we. I think the question of age and influence is something we feel as young people a lot especially in government in that we dont have it. But i want to see what you thought when it come to age and influence and innovation. Where do we stand . Is it going improve . Do we have the power to improve it . And what you think on it. Its the first time someone called me sir. [applause] you have something that no other generation looking at him and me, no other generation before you had. And that is you dont have to write a letter to the editor. You can have your own publication. You dont have to call in to a radio show and wait for an hour. You create your own radio show online. All you need is a feature phone. Theres cool app. You can go to scatter radio and create your own radio. Go to a Football Game at your high school, and say here is me at the game that no one is broadcasting, and here i am live i dont know what the right technical word is. You can broadcast the game and, you know, your friends around the qorld listen to you. The ones not watching the high school Football Game. It used to be there were flowchart in organizations. And so on and on so. Those were part of every website. When websites were started an organization were put up the flowchart. You dont see that a lot maybe some governmental offices still have it. Its something that someone took from a powerpoint and put on the web and so and so. There has never ban better time to be a young person in Foreign Policy. The high has been pancaked. Its probably a little more frustrating to be doing this inside the government rather than outside. But so you a lot of tools at your disposal. You can either hope and dream or say have the way and means. Its totally up to you. Do you feel entrepreneurial . Do you feel the benefit outweigh the cost . If you and you few yo have the time, the energy to put something new together do it. Especiallifully its never should be allowed to speak is when you hit, you know, you have the promotion you get no. Its you have to somehow. One of the things that came to focus for me there were a lot of organizations i wanted to exist that didnt. So you have to go out and make them dwrowrs. Thing d. C. And in bureaucracy especially, and im going steal a phrase here. There a soft bigotry of low expectations for junior folks. Ive run to admiral who say im pleasantly surprised at the level of effort the Junior Officers are putting forward. Its a backhanded compliment. You have to if you see an organization. Geement together and talk about policy issue and they tell a friend and somebody else tell a friend and a year later you have a three chapter across the country. Josh started it ten years ago now 10,000 young people, i mean, that is taking ab idea and running with it. If you have an idea for a group and this isnt going to be disruptive but, you know, start a book club in your organization were going to meet at military history. I want to meet for an hour every month and talk over a good discussion and fostering the relationship. If i have a problem or idea i can go to the experimental department. We have that relationship we can do something with. Try it out. See what happens. If it fails, learn from it. Kind of struck a cord. I think its fair to say that generally in a defense world where i hear the phrase innovation it tends to deal with the system and theres as well as an overwhelming focus on unmanned system and seeing that as the future of the deafen systems in a sen i think we have kind of a taken human away from the equation. How do you think we should continue to give the individual the human and the innovative sense as Technology Challenges and we find our relationship with the tool different. Particularly in the way we talk about people who fly and, you know, the people who do this dont like to be referred as drone pilot, for example. First thing that come to midnight we did a trip to m. I. T. And happen to visit with the human lab. One of the thing theyre working to do to make computer a adapted to computers the perfect example is the keyboard. Its optimized for the computer i. T. What about systems that respond human ergonomic. What can we do to make the interfacet more directed inward. You look at the area of and area all the thing that come from the dna or the mapping of the genome and understanding what the true capability of the human is. There are so much foacial optimize us as true capable people. Im not saying were superman. Instead of spending 100 billion over the next fighter jet. What if we pour 100 billion to Human Performance or the disease reduction that optimize having to utilize the systems . So im all on board with the human focus of innovation. Thats your question. I dont know if that got it. I think just as an extra tack on to that, i think also my what i was curious about in term of how we even talk about innovation. I think that it seems to be increasingly stepping away from the individual and the reason why i think ive kind of wonder effort or think about it before. Think about the strength or traditionally how we refer to the superiority of the american soldier. It youre familiar with and im sure everyone is not just the equipment, and using that framework and the future not just in the military but elsewhere. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] i may need repeat the question. Its going to be hard to do. Basically the question is around the tension between the kind of individual and innovative impulse to be totally ill late and the constitution that we innovate in. Added to that the imperative to scale and to paint the picture on the past how you could scale how it seem the in some ways to create tension with this individual impulse. I think, you know, the first start is thinking about what you know the particular culture of the organization youre operating in and listening to a system youre in and see what the toll rans are for disruptive thinking or innovation. I would think that in any institution you will those thinkers tend to stand out and those are your potential allies your mentor. I dont think the nature of that innovation you cant do it by yourself and you cant do it in small group but you will be better innage learn group because of the nature of the complexity of the problem youre dealing with. I think those two things where is the culture do they have tolerances for horned discal communication informal networking. What was said before by colleagues here this generation in term of the whole idea of and affinity groups. Governments are filled with affinity groups, and they dont general very little to do doing that. How far you can go in the space. I think for the military and specific the chain and command for exist for various reasons. There are to be the level of influence especially when it comes to combat operation. Another phrase comes to mind thats the initiative. Whiched a mirm nelson used in the Previous Campaign but the battle [inaudible] he was killed his subordinate were able to execute his Mission Command orders flaw ulessly and win the battle. He believed and and one of the thing i want to create is the ground sexual squall of innovation. Were playing the long game here. Theyll be the at one at the lieutenant cornel level or the ses level who understand the innovative mind set and allow the intord i cant to subordinate to use the talent. We have to exist within that. They have 209 . Its not something everybody gets to do. You have to prove value. Its going to have a return on an investment. You center to sell that to your Senior Leader in order make valuable. But i think with the initiative that a lot of us have once you do that it soften the flaying field. The general known for his exploit later in the career calling for one or two, depending how you count them. He had a battalion, and, you know, they were trying to see he went all the and, you know, i think i can pull it out. The war ended earlier. The headlines were u. S. Tax troll baghdad. Our military is blessed with more entrepreneurship than other militaries. What when we go to a country and theres a lot of 6 issues were not anticipating. Case in point, you have the young officers who were able to think on their feet and it works. Were not doing away with the two commanders. One can be very clear, you know. If the moderator is permitted to offer two cents. I would say for the folks who civilian in the large institutions i reminded of something that jacqueline said. Jacqueline is a social entrepreneur who started acumen, we brought her to the pentagon as part of an innovation series called new idea. Any case, she remarkinged on how the phenom and a half good people feeling stuck in bad there is something to that; right . I think what is interesting to consider is how being in the system kind of teaches you new ways of doing the work or being you. Even in the civilian world a very permissionbased system. And we learn over time to ask first when, you know, before you ever worked whenever you work you might have gone ahead and done it. One way to kind of put soft pressure on the tendency to learn new way of operating in a safe way and bureaucracy is to ask myself what would happen if i just can d it. Is asking permission first necessary . You have to be educate where the boundaries of appropriate, you know, behavior; right . But often i find people say yes more than they say no, and its were better to put your idea throughout. Its usually an audience of this kind of thing. [inaudible] i think we need talk about innovation is that the present situation. Really i think that there has been a [inaudible] significant issue or, you know, for a number of stakeholders involved. That leaves the number of civilian who [inaudible] and just the [inaudible] and nothing was happening. Okay. Well take stab. I dont think hes a whistleblower. Im not going to take the question. I think you can innovate without putting your, you know, National Security interests in danger. I think im not an expert on this. I cant offer a good opinion. I think there are pitfallses with any technological revolution, and with the advent of the internet, there will be consequence and [inaudible] but you have to be mindful. I think the democratic process will sort it out. Unfortunately i cant say anymore because i dont know. [inaudible] i work for the defense department. We cant bring our cell phone to the work. Theres no wireless internet. The websites you are talking about are blocked at work and discouraged from using them outside of work. Outside the basic research, but we cant even tell our coworkers about some of the [inaudible] how do you innovate and [inaudible] where everything is classified and that classification is there for very good reasons . [inaudible] in the culture of secrecy. Yeah. Thats great question. [laughter] ive never been so allly say is that overclassification is bad. [laughter] a story that is one of my two favorite intel stories that demonstrates the culture of secrecy. Typically get asked to go to interagency events, and you go to this building in arlington with a very innocuous name like United Technologies or Something Like that. And i go in and say, my name is neil levin, the direct oroff ooffice of and the guy time talking to will say, hi, im bob. And, you know, so im sure bob has really good information that he invited me to this event. Theres an ongoing professional relationship but no Business Card no last name. Theres no kind of interest besides a oneway extraction of information from time to time. But as i have said a number of times, i dont think there is a good answer, but if you so lock down your ability to communicate with each other, what happens is those folks at that level are only talking to each other, and it doesnt bode well for problemsolving on the level of complexity we need. The reverse should be true. I believe theres a way to do that and still protect the nations secrets. Hopefully a mindbending perspective, and this is directly paraphrased from a guy who does a lot of Human Performance stuff. In 20 or 30 years time well be directly interfacing with computeres, putting things in our brain and talk to them and whatever, and you can it could be horrible but probably what is going to happen. Right now you cant put a secret cd into an unclassified computer. Its a spill. So you as a Government Employee with classified information in your brain right now, what are the procedures when you hook yourself up to a random machine to have the competitive advantage that your peers are having, white kind of firewalls . Is that a disincentive to the government worker when you cant use the same resources as somebody else. So thats an innovation question. But technologies going to keep pushing the boundaries of what classification needs and when you connect to the internet or the computer and its in your brain, is that a spill and what do youyou guys can think about. A very provocative bill. We had peter singer over to the pentagon to talk about revolutions in technology and on the battlefield, and one thing i walked away from was exactly what ben was talking about, that over a time, as technology has advanced, the Competitive Edge that the government kind of once held in this area, is being eroded because of the openness of the civilian society, and that will come at a cost. I mean, so the question is going to be, how do governments continue to do their job and resist the direction that Technology World is pushing at us. On individual levels there may be ways for you to collaborate in the way your office might not do by habit, that are still confined within the rules. Just in the spirit of the book club, just getting a bunch of smart, interested colleagues to spend an hour in a classified area, trying to solve a problem. If i can say one more thing to piggyback on what beth said. The story about Silicon Valley and boston some of you may know this both of those have innovation corridors but the reason Silicon Valley thrived is the state of california does not have a noncompete clause. Basically in boston if youre working with company x, you cannot discuss anything if you leave that company, with company y in california youre able to do that. You can have a lot more crosscultural interaction and take an idea from company z, interact from company as, and form a new company with the personal intellectual property develop something new, and a cultural secrecy is the boston model and the culture of openness im not saying we should make everything unclassified but we need to think about the level which were classifying things and does it inhibit National Security . Are there some areas to open things up to a more collaborative environment, an online crowd source side and you can book ideas up and down. A complete cultural shift. You are opening up to people who dont need to know but collaboration leads to superior results if done appropriately. A question . Mark bardwell, and thank you for the cybernetics. I enjoyed that. I wanted to ask more about the here and now, and an imminently practical question. What is the hoped for disrupting the current hierarchy . Specifically that we have in the government. I think of, for instance, we mentioned ted talks earlier. You might have seen dr. Thomas barnetts talk about reforming the department of defense, changing it into a multifaceted department that could handle u. S. Aid, like responsibilities, where you create you create roads. What is the value of that kind of thinking, and also is that even the right time kind of thinking . Does change need to come from within the government or from without . The disruption that is coming, as the retirement of the babyboomers and its going to be huge. And it started a few years ago, and between now and 2016 a lot of departments will have changeover up to 50 of their total employees. So that is a huge change. And if i were you guys id be worried, how am i going to retain the expertise once theyre not here and theres people my age who are looking up to me. I dont want to take a position on dr. Barnetts actually going to hoe him at ndu in a couple of weeks and will hear this latest talks on this. I think but it goes to makes me think about usaid in general and the ability of strategic thinkersers and big tk to go on to challenge the conventional wisdom, and whether there are enough platforms. Its hard to imagine there could be more robust intellectual life here, but it does exist between certain kind of boundaries of what is seen as polite debate here. I guess theres always disruptive thinkers is the idea where the conversations that were not having could be had, and so one of those conversations that i think about a lot, is we talk about the threed world bus choate as a sew but choose as a society to i think underinvest dramatically in two of the three things we say are essential to our National Security. Where does that discussion take place . Its going to get even more difficult as resources are greatly constrained. The same time, who plays what role . Who is best suited to play the role that the governments asked to play, whether thats this agency, combination of agencies or combination of private and public roles. I think the think tanks do that the natural space for that to occur, but again, it is sort of only just between a band of debate. Im actually kind of optimistic that things are changing right now, and ill use the navy as an example. Admiral richardson is now the chief of naval reactors. When he was the commander of submarine forces he began tang, and he brought together 15 or 20 Junior Officers to develop the next generation of a submarines bridge, and they created a completely new concept of how to rub a submarine, and they took that idea and moved it into actual ideation and production for next generation. Guys like mccraft, now in japan, set up m people like this and admiral green. And vice admiral connor. Those guys really get it and they are trying to get new innovative ideas. I think the blessing of the challenges were facing right now is that people are forced to look outside existing systems for solutions, and that is our saving grace as a generation. Theyre going to start looking to us to hopefully come up with the solutions. We have to be ready to pounce on them. And this may be a fleeting moment but there are so many things aligning right now for us to take advantage of. You have to find those people that want to caution youll find advocates who have gone through the ranks and understand the system and hip shepherd your ideas through and if you take advantage and find those people they can be your mentors and give you guidance. Im an optimist despite all the other things im doing. There are beams of life making anicut pack making an impact right now. In the back. [inaudible] give some examples. Overcoming the challenges im going to expand upon a lot of times when we join up with larger companies, working on concepts or i. T. Systems in the intel community, we have computers on site and they help innovate solutions to the next generation of programs, lets say, and they come up with really fantastic ideas. Theyre on site, they understand how it works and doesnt work, and what needs to be done to fix it, but we cant implement the ideas because thats not what the contract for the new generation is requesting. Its like the old kind of clunky way that is working working ands what they questioned and if you have an innovation that works better, too bad. Thats not what theyre asking for. Have you seen some examples how to overcome those structural challenges, if you will . Have them submit a set of proposals. What . Unsolicited proposal. Whoever is writing the contract likes it too much, they may actually bid it out. Dont assume the people at the top are getting the same information that youre getting. I think theres also a kind of contracting where you basically described the end state you want and let the proposer propose how it would get there. I dont know if in the delivery of that proposal, whether new innovations that were not present at the time of the proposal was written, would be accepted, but i think theres a way to contract that. It really does go to how you approach problemsolving and what you can do along the lines of procurement to do that. It generally pretty its a rulebased system but there are rules designed to built in at least some innovation. I think the knowledge of that is very narrowly shared is part of the problem. In the back. I feel come fold ask the opposite question. I work for a company that writes the older requirement that are difficult to meet with the Innovative New ideas and thats where i really can kind of phrase this as a question one of the battles we fought i love sitting around with contractors and talking because seems like theres apply to many of these questions. Theres an old culture among those who have been around for a long time and have retired two or three times and half my team has fought in vietnam. They are not sharing information because so many of the pushes over the last, i would say, maybe not ten year but the recent history of army procurement, military procurement in general, has been stop telling industry how to do things, let them innovate, and that has been interpreted through a couple generations, dont talk to industry. Let them figure it out. And so it gets very stilted because industry at the small end creates ideas, and have no real method to inject them, and we have seen im sure you have seen with the navy also in the rapid something very rapid and unique inject, its a great onramp, and great stuff doesnt have a legitimate requirement behind it to carry on and fight for money, and i guess my question would be for those who have more experience at higher levels, what do you see is the bridge from the government side to we cant change statute and regulations as much as wed like to rewrite it and make it 12 pages long. What inrow innovations allow to us bridge the gap. I cant answer because i havent seen examples but one thing we need to do better job of is in procurement, taking a systems approach. In a given program, Large Program with multiple components, we usually optimize each individual component separately and sometimes give them to different companies. But when you put them together they dont talk to each other. So you need too create a conduit whereby the organizations responsible for creating the systems are working together to create the best system as a whole and goes back to the 1980 u. S. Hockey team. The team of soviets are allstars in their own right individually, the best of the best, but you have this team of scrappy u. S. Guys who work really well together. May not be individually the best but as a system work better than the individuals, and far too many of our weapons systems, because of the procurement process and this goes into politics a lot of reasons why its done this way but doesnt produce the optimum results for the system we need to do a better job of recognizing interacts and letting the war fighter be involved in those processes. Im not talking about the im talking about the 01, 2, and 3, using it every single day and pointing out the systems and i have to log into two different symptoms because they wont talk to each and if that do it takes ten minutes to download to the server. You have to get this on the ground expertise integrated with the contracts, and that would be a fundamental culture shift. I doubts know if it would happen because it would shake up how we do procurement but if we want the crewly best systems we have to come up with that approach. Its a great question because it sort of leads you to, where is the is the problem in the system or the problem in the people . And while the procurement speaking generally, ones im familiar with there are rule that allow you to break through the attitude of not sharing. You can publicly request information, a request for information that goes out and canvasses the field and says, whats out there . What do you think would be of interest to us before an rfp is written . Open, transparent, full participation allowed. You can do conferences. You can as long as you keep between the four squares of what you have said in writing and you share that on an equal basis, you can identify who the parties are. And then once a protected procurement sensitive goes off, once an award is made, you can work close we call it grantees and contractors our partner, and if your guiding principle is value for the american taxpayer, theyre going to want a good program that represents the best thinking. So this idea of holding back informations and solutions and let agos figure it out runs counter to what the prime goal would be. Okay. Right here at the table. From dod. One of the things we touched upon is the betweens innovation in Silicon Valley is bottomup and government is more topdown. Large corporations, the government more so because of legal, plan and control reasons. With this new center of technology and boomers retiring, transformation of the government is going to come. If you were to imagine a certain transformation of the government, what would you want it to by or if you can snap your finger and change the system in a way to mak it better, what would you want it to be . okay. Years ago i was an intern here, working on a commission to look at what is going on at doe. This is pre9 11, and the interests of protecting my age i will not disclose when. But a lot of the dysfunction withins d. O. E. , the reason why a dnr o. E. Leadership chose to go outside the agency to bring stakeholders from throughout washington to say, guys, help us, was because in the 70s, it was politically expedient to say we have this crisis, that is our crisis. What is the greatest, everyone that is working on energy in any shape, way or form, across 20plus agencies, would be under one roof. Would talk to one another. And we can say were doing something about the oil crisis. Of course, a lot of institutions and organizations that had their own esprit de corps will emerge suddenly, and here we are okay in 2000, looking at some things that was dub wrong and fast in the 70s and trying to figure out, this organization has had growing pains that are older than we are. How do we address it . And fast forward a few years, and we have another instance of a similar merger because it was politically expedients to do so at the same time. You know what im alluding to the department of homeland security. So, long story to tell you, if it were to be organized or reorganized these things take time and, yes, politics is involved and has to be involved. I would like a government that, given a lot of retirements, and given a lot of necessary belttightening, figures out what are some things we no longer need to do . And now you get into turf battles, and who is willing to give up any of their responsibilities and any of their i dont know prerogatives. I dont have an answer to that but i will just say, its not just the executive branch that has this issue. These turf wars happen on the hill. And the hill decides the shape of the executive branch. So, be patient. But there are theres a force of less money to go around. Someone has to sit and think, were talking about how many ships should the navy have . Right . Thats an ongoing conversation. Theres less money but theyre going down. A lot of people are going to retire. Perfect time to sit and think. Just a couple of suggestions. I dont think these are down the road. These could be implemented fairly quickly. I think in terms of this idea about what would you change to promote innovation, and get more bottomup, its far too hard for people to move around the government and in and out of the government as it is structured now. Many of you know are veterans of the pmf program that is designed to move you around, you said within the first five minutes were stovepiped and dont talk every Bureaucratic Organization creates independent cultures, career paths, but for a lot of the complex problems we need much more crosspoll pollennization 0, so the able to work for an ngo, come back into government, go to a think tank or academic appointment, and then the concept so thats one, and we have the authorities to do that now. Its budget. It conclude done i think budget neutrally. Theres some loss in terms of transaction costs to make it happen. And then the concept of lifelong learning. The military is way ahead of the civilians in terms of this. I teach now in classes of folks with multiple degrees from the military students that have been theyve traveled around the world, been posted around the world, picked up degrees. I think colin powell spent six years in the classroom in a 30year career. Nothing equivalent on the civilian side to make lifelong learners, and and there is in terms of development, that kind of experience is needed in terms of propoeting innovation not just for young people but the entire group of people working on these areas. Im actually kind of fan of the Current System in the sense that its evolved over the past 50 years, or 60 years news, and to snap your fingers, dont have to start over again and have the pin points evolve from there but discussions like this and things were trying to push are going to move that evolution naturally towards a more perfect equilibrium. The dod and government is going to lag behind the rest of society but it will be pulled there we dont have iphones but we have email, we have internet, access do the internet, and were changing slowly our personnel policies and solutions and other stuff. So i think any evolutionary process is going to have significant points that need to change you may have some dips in that as well. The trajectory were on i think in a democratic system, is almost the best were going to get but we need to push it, people to challenge it to poke the bear almost and make them prove theyre still valuable, and let the Market Forces of us as individuals point out the flaws and force them to change if they see value it to. Thats a long proposition. Its a long game again. But our systems evolved for a reason and a lot of it i dont like, but to prove what im advocating for is more beneficial and the process will hopefully make a better system. So were a couple minutes before 8 00 but we started a little late so i point to you maybe as the last question, second to last, if theres a burning one. I appreciate that. Hopefully my question and comment will tie it all together. My name is tyson, innovation programmer. My comments and questions are so, what weve perhaps innovation, big brain, and then we also mentioned cultural competence, and most john matthew of whole foods is introduced this concept of systems quotient. And i think its very clever. So the analogy ill offer, if youre innovation across the internet, a lot of people still associated with innovation. Tangible gadget. The analogy is the iceberg. On the iceberg, what you see is only a small portion of a full mast in itself. The water around the iceberg is the culture that it is operating within. And then on top is the call stuff you can actually see. Then underneath its actually holding the iceberg up and often times, i would split, as i would submit, the facility innovation, the management, this is the training, the education, the administration, and all these other elements that are connected with it, with innovations so its effectively now a system. So we talk to promote any sort of encouraging growth or expansion with societys systems quotient, whatever techniques we can do to shift away from the cool gadgets and sort of transcend to the idea that innovation is everywhere. Innovation is pervasive in all our systems. Its within the not so testy Financial Systems or Administrative Systems but there are better ways of doing this. How do we integrate growth in systems, systems quotient, to make these processes talking about the processes and not necessarily just the products that typically visual or typically gathering the most attention. Ill simply say, develop and encourage relationships between people. When you die, youre on your death bed and the people you remember most the friends you had, your family, people ask the most influential person its usually a teacher or family member, someone they know personally so if you can talk to a cull fostary cultural relation palestine your organization that will inherently create the innovative organizations that rely on people as the foundation for everything you do. I like the iceberg analogy. And ill go back to what i think is important for Young Professionals. What lies below the surface im not a tech guy. Im as impressed by new really good design that solves a problem, very practical, but i dont claim to know a lot in the tech field. But Critical Thinking and what when i say that, i mean how do we go about solving problems . Is one of those skills that lies below the surface line. The second is appreciation of diversity that we dont have the answers and were going to have to go to places where thinking is different than our own, that thing wes disagree with and take on a viewpoint that were uncomfortable with in order to learn. The third would be, as i said before, emotional intelligence, and the fourth is what were looking at now which is leadership. And we talked about you said there are beacons, places, folks that are natural allies, mentors, that you should seek out. Theyre going to want to talk to you, i think, and theyre going to want to listen to your ideas. One more question. Okay. I have a question. I was wondering if the panelists could give their personal opinion on what is the most important shortterm barriers or shortterm problems facing innovation for National Security . I think the fact that theres fear to spend money on innovation, even though it will have longterm results, and ill give you an example. This was brought up to me today. Specific Program Managers are afraid of applying l. E. D. Technology because in the short term it costs more and theyre evaluated specifically on a oneyear time frame for momentum. Even though the systemmings the lifetime of the system that l. E. D. Light will save thousands of dollars in man hours and replacement costs. Thats not what the Program Managers look at for monetary reasons. Theyre legacy systems that are not optimized to spend money now to save money know long run. Well to piggyback on that, i come from industry, and even in Industry Innovation finds a long time to end up in the widgets and gadgets. Look at cars. Cell phones have been ubiquitous in peoples hands for a long time. Finally in 2014 models are starting to advertise theres a cell phone holder next to the cup holder. Thats not even technological innovation. Just someone that says, im designing a car. Im just going to cut a piece of the dash, and this is industry, right . This is a bailed out industry from detroit that says, were competing with the best of the best. So its just a mindset. Although its a tablets have been ubiquitous, but legacy systems Like Airlines and Car Manufacturers are just starting to put them into adopt them. Now, if industry, cutting edge, competing with a lot of other competitors, internationally, takes this long to bring these Technological Innovations and adopt them in their products, the government, which is a monopoly, takes a little longer. So, the biggest challenge that i see and that was a great question how do you still have Quality Control but find a way to rush to market or whatever the appropriate for the government, technologies or even just nonTechnological Innovations that could help make the product or service better. I would just simply say i think we covered it earlier, the biggest barrier is the fear of failure, and not being able to learn from failure. And that i think goes to government in terms of personnel systems in terms of being able to admit when a program isnt working, and that risks are so high and it jeopardizes careers and jeopardizes programs, jeopardizes your ability to continue working. How did you learn how did you learn in life from people patting you on the back or people saying that was not the best way to do something. Hears other heres a better way. Thats a practice we take from our personal life and dont apply it in our professional lives because the constraints are so great. Great. Well, before i turn it back over to priscilla and eric, i wanted to remark on one key point im going to take away from this, which is that the title, innovation and National Security, do they mix . Is daunting in some sways. Sounds like youre trying to solve a big problem, a big important problem. And what i am coming away with is the emphasis that i heard from the panelists and the impetus of the question wes have heard from you, on the importance of the human dimension, on the relationships, on the individual passion and commitment, on the almost innate desire to be playful and collaborative at work, and this is wonderfully simple. On the suggestions we have heard from the panelists to go back to your work places and just do, is incredibly powerful in its simplicity. So, i just wanted to thank the panelists for letting me leave here a little more optimistic and for the Great Questions from you all and thank you again for allowing me to be part of this. Ill turn it over to practice sylla and eric. Thank you, beth, and how about a round of applause for our distinguished panelists and moderator. [applause] i think we all have a greater understanding now about the challenges, but more importantly, the opportunities for innovation in National Security and Foreign Policy, and while we may have more questions than answers right now, asking those tough questions amongst a group of people like this is really the first step in bringing about the innovations we desire. And id just like to thank everyone. The staff, cspan, the moderator, and great panelists, all of you for being here, and really contributing to such a great conversation. I really appreciate it. And i hope that you can join us at cities, its around the corner, at 919 19th street and well try to continue the discussion in a less form setting. Have great night. [applause] [inaudible conversations] one of the most fun times i ever had, it was 2006, and it looked like democrats were going to take over take back over the house, and it was looking pretty bad for republicans, and Vice President cheneys office call and wanted to know if we could come over and have breakfast with him. So we had breakfast with him and id met him before but i didnt know him, and first of all its unbelievable how much he knew about he had been to so many of these districts over the years as one of the Republican Leaders of the house of dismiss that, but basically the was asking us how bad is this . And we were saying, yep, its pretty bad. But thats kind of fun when you get to do that or talk to caucuses on both sides and get a glimpse of the inside and the players. With more than 30 years as political analyst, charlie cook uncovered the trend while tracking every congressional race since set see the rest of the interview sunday night on cspan. Book tv and primetime continues now with indepth with amy goodman though, and becktive producer of democracy now, and joined us earlier this year to discuss war, politics and grassroots activism. She has written or cowritten five books. Heres her interview now. Host amy goodman in your first book, the exception to the rulers you write, and youre quoting the washington n post. Amy goodman as the ininvited guest. Guest were not supposed to be the feature any party. Were a journalist. Theres a reason why our profession is explicitly protected by the u. S. Constitution. Were supposed to be the check and balance on power. Host in that book also, war and peace, life and death, the role of the media in a Democratic Society to provide a forum for this discourse to do anything less is a disservice to the servicemen and servicewomen of this country. Guest thats right. You know, ive just flown in from denver, where i was at the National Conference on media reform, and when we flew into the airport at denver, thats where people hold up signs when you come out to pick you up, and as we were walking there were soldiers there, and they were going to be picking up a general, and as we walked by, they were waving, and i thought maybe the genoas behind me because they had a sign for the general, but i said i want to go back and talk to them. So i went back and said, do you watch democracy now . And they said, every day. So i said, really. Why do you watch . They said, its objective and you cover war. You know, it is not about whether youre for or against war. Its about covering the most serious decision a country can make. I see the media as a huge Kitchen Table that stretches across the globe, that we all sit around and discuss the most important issues of the day. As you quoted there, war and peace, life and death, and anything less than that is a disservice to the servicemen and women of these countries. They cant have these debates on military bases. They rely on is in the civilian society to have the discussions that lead to the discussions whether they live or die, about whether theyre sent to kill or be killed. And anything less than that is a disservice to a Democratic Society. Host one of the recuring themes in your writing is the Corporate Media a, as you call it. What is the Corporate Media. Guest its what most people see on most channels, not at all and thats the hope. Its the channels, nbc, cbs, abc, cnn, the break for the advertisers, that turn to corporate support. See the hope is public media, media brought to you by the listeners and the viewers are who are deeply committed to independent information. While we cover war not brought to you by the weapons manufacturers. When with cover Climate Change north brought to you by the oil, the gas, the coal companies, the nuclear companies. When we cover the healthcare debate, not brought to you by big farm ma, the Drug Companies or the insurance industry, but brought to listeners and viewers by listeners and viewers who feel that information is power. That information is essential, the oxygen of a democracy. Host back to the exception of the rulers. What do you mean by sound barrier. Guest so often on the network we get a small circle of pundits who know so little about so much, explaining the world to us and getting it so wrong. We build to the communities to talk to people in this country and around the world who are at the heart of the story. Its not always easy to find. But people sense authentic voices. Its why so maybe young people lit ton democracy now. We have such a diverse audience in this country and around the world, because its that sense of people knowing what theyre talking about because theyre talk from their own experience. I think thats the best kind of journalism. Providing a forum for people to speak for themselves, providing a forum for people from different strata of society, to debate and discuss with each other the critical issues, but hearing those voices of a great diversity of people. That is the role of journalism in a Democratic Society. Host when did democracy start and when how is it funded. Guest started 17 years ago the only daily show on elections. It was february of 1996. The second election of president clinton ultimately, we didnt flow that at the time. And we i was actually in haiti when i got the call from pacifica radio where the show was first established. And when they said do you want to host democracy do you want 0 to host this daily election show . I thought it was very interesting challenge because ive covered places where people have get gunned down when they good to the polls, and prices like east timor and the other side of the earth, and places like haiti, and yet the overwhelming majority of people vote. Why, i wondered, in this country dont people vote . I should say, the majority do not vote. And i dont think its apathy. And i didnt think it was then. But i was interested to follow the primaries as a kind of map of the country, and go to these states and see what people are doing in their communities, how are they physically engaged . So, i did the show and the election happened and we thought that would be it. But there was more demand for the show after the election than before, and so we were broadcasting in a few dozen Community Radio stations, and it kept growing, and then the week of september 11th happened, september 11, 2001. We were slated to go on one tv station, it was in new york. It was a Public Access tv station, and we were broadcasting from a Old Firehouse that had been turned into a Community Media center. Host down by the twin towers. Guest yes. The closest National Broadcast to the World Trade Center. So, on september 11th we were going to be broadcasting on television as well for manhattan neighborhood network. We were brought now broadcast 8 00 eastern standard time. Then it was 9 00. The first plane hilt the first tower of the World Trade Center at 8 47. We didnt know it was health were in this Old Firehouse. The second plane hit at 9 03. We still didnt know it was happening. We were, though, doing a show that day on the connection between terror and september 11th, 1973. In chile, when acken day, the democratically elected president died the palace and the pinochet forces rows to power, and kiss skin jerry backed the forces, nixon backed the forces, itt backed the pinochet forces, and he was a dictator who was ruthless, who ran that country for 17 years, thousands of chileans were killed. September 11, 2001, is not the first time september 11th, that september 11th is connect with terror. Its happened around the world. September 11, 1977 insuring d in south africa, a member of the Consciousness Movement was being beaten in the back of a van by are par tied force apartheid forces, died in the Early Morning hours in guatemala, the an to the anthropologist was killed by got Guatemalan Security forces, sadly u. S. Backed security forces. September 11, 1971, here in the United States, in my state in new york, that was the attica uprising. September 9th to 13th two days later governor rockefeller was called out the state troopers and they would open fire on the prisoners, killing Something Like 79 prisoners and guards. Killed 39 prisoners and guards. Critically wounding 88 others, and injures hundreds of other. September 11th is not the first time that terror has come to u. S. Soil. Ask any africanamerican about slavery, any native american about what is happening to this country, but september 11, 2001, was horrific moment. 3,000 people incinerated in an instant. Well never know actually how many people died because those who go unnamed and undocumented in life often go undocumented in death and they were the undocumented workers around the World Trade Center, but is was horrific, and i think you uneated us with people around the world who have been victims of terror. Host so democracy now has been on the television since guest exactly. Once we went on the manhattan enabled neighborhood network, Public Access stations started calling saying we want to run the broadcast. And we were dealing with breaking news so i didnt think we could just mail to them elm didnt have satellite. We started fedexing guys. Would have huge black bags full of video cassettes and send them around the country, and then in the communes where it i it started run only television, the local radio would say, can we run the show . So we were on Community Radio stations, college stations, pacifica station, npr stations and now increasingly on pbs tv stations all over the country. So we started in 1996 and today were broadcasting on over 1100 public radio and television stations around the country and around the world. Our headlines are also available in spanish for any Radio Station to take, and also writing a weekly column for hearst to give voice to the people who are not reflected in the media but reflect the views of perhaps most people in the country. Host funding . Guest divided by the networks that run us, foundations and listener and viewer support, which is most critical. All over the country and around the world, people committed to independent media. Host the exception to the rulers, back to your writing. Journalists are not entertainers. Were reports, and go to places unpopular. Where were you in november of 1991 . Guest well, in november of 1991, i went to the small country called east timor, which at the time was occupied by indonesia. I went there with my colleague, allen narron, a superb journalist in this country, investigative journalist we had gone there the year before to investigate what was happening there, and then returned at the end of october 1991. Indonesia invaded east timor december 7, 1975. At the time it was president ford, secretary of state henry kissinger. They gave the goahead to the invasion and as they flew out, the Indonesian Military invaded east timor, by land, by air, and by sea can just for a little history. They occupied the country. They closed it to the outside world. And so for the next 17 years or ultimately for a quarter century, they slaughtered the people. One of the great genocides of the late 20th century. The genocide was worse than pollpot0s cambodia. The difference was people knowing what was happening is pollpot was an official. Media would cover it because the president and secretary of state talked about it and the Immediate Use should heave covered itself but in the case of indonesia invading east timor, he was an ally of the United States 0, whether it was ford and carter and reagan and bush and clinton, they did not talk about the atrocities in timor so we went to east timor to do our job as journalist to go to where the silence is, and what we found there was a real hell on earth. November 12, 1991, they occupied, and killed a third of the population, and on that morning, the people went to church to the catholic church, most of the country is catholic, it had been occupied by portugal for many centuries actually. And they went to the church that Flagship Church in the capital of east timor, 300 miles above australia, and they, after the church, went out into the street and in an unheard of demonstration, because in indonesian occupied timor they did not allow freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of assembly. But two weeks before, right after we arrived, the Indonesian Military surrounded the church and they had killed the young man in the church at point blank range. They had a funeral for him the next day. We went and a thousand people turned out and marched to the cemetery, and two weeks later they were having a commemoration procession and this land without freedom of speech, press or assembly, the people marched into the streets. You would see a girl in her Catholic School uniform, and then a woman in her old timorees garb, and what girls and boys would pull out banners theyd written on bed sheets and they would hold them up and they would say things like, why the Indonesian Military shoot our church . They appeal to president george h. W. Bush, and appealed to the eun, and marched through the streets, retracing the steps of the funeral two weeks before. Some putting their hands up in the v signchanting, viva east timor, viva independence, incredibly brave. And i that marched from schools and home and march to the santa cruz cemetery. When we got there we were interviewing people. Why are you risking your life to do this . And they would say, for my mother. For my father. For my village. It was wiped out. And then from the direction the procession has come we saw hundreds of indonesian soldiers carrying their u. S. M16s at the ready position marching up on the crowd. 90 of the weapons used were from the United States. The army was armed, trained and financed be the United States. And in this day it was no different. The soldiers marched up ten to 12 abreast. Alan and i were interviewing people in the middle of the crowd. And allen suggest we walk to the front of the crowd, because we knew that the Indonesian Military committed many massacres in the past. Never done it in front of western journalists and we thought maybe, just maybe, our presence could head off this attack. We always hid our equipment because anyone caught talking to a wall street journal journalist could be disappeared, killed, but this time we wanted to make clear who we were. I took my tape recorder out and slung it over my shoulder and put my head phones on, held up my microphone like a flag. Allen put the camera before his head. We walked to the front of the crowd. The soldiers marched up, they rounded the corner, they swept past us, and without any hesitation, without any warning, without any prove provocation, they opened fire on the ground, gunning people down from right to left. A group of soldiers gathered around me. They pulled my microphone away. Waving it in my face as if to say this is what we dont want, and then day took me down, beating me with rifle butts and but boots and allen got a photograph of opening of them opening fire and then threw himself on top of me. They took the. m16s and slammed them against his skull it was fractured. Allen was covered in blood. The soldiers, then put the guns to our heads and firing squad fashion, and they shouted two things. They now stripped us of everything. The only thing i had left was my passport and i threw it at them and they were shouting two things australia and politik. They were saying it was political for us to witness that, but thats our job to go to where silence is and they were asking if we are were from australia and we knew how dangerous that was for us. And so 17 years before when indonesia invaded east timor there were five australian based journalist covering the invase. They were executed. There was a sixth journalist and the day after the invasion, december 8, 1975, roger east, he was reporting from a Radio Station in delhi for the world and they broke into the Radio Station, they dragged him out and as our shouted im from australia, they shot him into the harbor. The Australian Government hardly protested the killing of their journalists. Because we we believe because years later, australia and indonesia would sign the timor treaty dividings timors oil between australia and indonesia. Oil is the source of so much pain in the world, and as we lay there, allen covered in blood and theyre shouting at us, australia, with the guns to our heads, we shouted back, no, america, america. I had thrown my passport at them. I was born here in washington, dc and they would kick me in my stomach and as others joined the firing squad i would say, america, america. At some point they took the guns from our heads, we believe because we were from the same country their weapons were from. They would have to pay a price for killing us they never had to pay for killing the timor yeast, a red cross jeep pulled up. We were able to get into it. The driver of the red cross jeep picked up the timorees man who was in a sewer ditch next to us and everytime the soldiers beat him, he would put up his hands in the prayer sign and they would smash the butts of their rifles into this face. We drove as a museum human mass to to the hospital. At the hospital, when we got out, the doctors and nurses started to cry when they saw us. People can march in streets here, and they saw that that day. And that deepened their despair. We went hiding. We knew we had to get out of the country. We have not succeeded in stopping the massacre. The indonesia military killed more than 270. We went to the bishops house. He later won the nobel peace prize. Allen was covered covered in blood. He gave him a new shirt. It was like a bathing cap of blood. If we could get to the airport maybe we could get out on the only plane out. Come get to fly out and get word to the outside world. We knead to the airport that closed down the whole city. The jeep and soldier through the street. We heard gunfire. Got to the airport, the military occupied the airport. There was a militaryoccupied country. They were shouting security. We dont know if they wanted to not kill us and a gap in communication. They decided to let us get on the plane. Allen had electrical charges going through his body had to walk very, very slowly. We walked to the tarmac, on the plane. And at the Flight Attendant closed plane they handed me a silver bowl as we were flying out with water and said clean him up. We made the way to indonesia and bali. Made a call to the west, allen reported in death details had taken place. I had when we were in hiding we someone take 18 pictures of us because they took our equipment. They knew they would deny anything happened. I hid that film away. And i had taken a towel from the bishop and wrapped allens bloody skirt around so we could show the evidence. When we we got bali and allen made the call to the west i kept wiping the phone off. The flood from his head was drenching the phone. We then got on to a flight to guam and we went to Guam Memorial Hospital they operated on allen show of sue sewing up his head. It was there the mrm room the press from around the world and called in and became a switchboard for the press. The new yorkthe new yorkthe new york thyme bb crb. They denied anything took place. An balance allen never stopped telling the story even as they sewing up the head. He the phone glued to the ear. We were going to a cnn outpost. Someone developed the photograph and said a mas consider is taken place. Came to the united. When we got to washington, after allen was released from the hospital within hours, they resewed up his head. We had a News Conference the National Press club. We described the weapons were used. A masker has taken place. In 1999 eight years later, the they got a chab to vote for their freedom. In a u. N. Sponsored referendum. In a sadistic goodbye as the people went to the poll, the indonesia military burned it to the ground killing more than a thousand more in that voting process. The u. N. Worked for three years and on may 20th, 2002, i tried to get in for the referendum but the indonesia military caught me and deported me. Three years later i came through australia. In may 20, 2002. Allen there then. It was about midnight. About 100,000 gathered. The plane outside the cap tal. Then the u. N. Secretary general gave a speech and the rebel leader who was long imprisoned bit indonesia military ascended the stage. He was a founding precedent of the new country. And he unfold the flag of the democratic republican. There was a fireworks display, you could see the light reflected in the tear stain faces of the people. They resisted and they won at an unbelievably unacceptably high price. The nation of survivors had prevailed. Its a lesson to all of us 11 years after it was established as an independent nation. Whether we are journalists or business people, professors, doctors, artists, students, whether we are libraries employed or unemployed. We have a decision to make every day, every hour of every day whether we want to representative the sword or the shield. Host good afternoon from washington. You are watching booktv on cspan2. This is indepth program. One author, his or her body of work and three hours with your phone call, tweet, facebook comment, and emails. Our guest this month amy goodman. Cohost of democracy now. Five nonfictions book from 2004. In 2006 she came out with static. Standing up to madness came out in 2008. Cowritten with her brother david goodman. The sound barrier in 2009. And the silenced majority story of uprising, occupation, resistance and hope came out last year. If you would like to participate this afternoon. Its postedded a the top of the page. You can make a comment under the amy goodman zek. You can send us an email at cspan. Org. You can send in a tweet as well. Guest well, i really think those who are concerned about war people are concerned about the growing inequality in this country. People who are concerned about Climate Change, the fate of the planet are not a fringe minority. Not even a site not even a silent majority. The silenced majority. Silenced by the Corporate Media. Which is why we have to take back. Host do you consider yourself objective . Guest i consider myself fair and accurate. And i think that that is the highest aspiration a journalist can have. Host how do you define democracy . Guest i think people have different definition. Its about people in charge of their government. People participating in their government. I think we have to strive for that every single day. We, you know, democracy now is a grassroots newshour, and i think providing a forum for people to have the discussions at the highest mission of a journalist to continually raise issues to heal hear them hashed out. There are not only two sides to the issue. There are many different sides and different perspectives to bring the perspectives out. Not just give voice to those in power. I think the media can be the great equalizer just as the internet can be. Providing a forum, no matter what part of society youre in to be able to talk to each other. Thats the role that journalism must play in ensuring a Democratic Society. Host one of the section in your newest book, the scienced majority you talk about try to get to canada to give a speech. [laughter] guest well, democracy now every year we travel around the country, and we broadcast from Community Media public television, public Radio Stations all over the country and do fundraisers because the way public media supported. Part of our mission is to shore up public media. Youre describing a situation in 2009, where my colleague, dennis and i, who were with me breaking the sound barrier were going from seattle speaking there, just like two days ago, we broadcast in denver from the denver open media, which was Public Access in denver where we broadcast every day. Then we went to the studio, it was the first time this station had actually done a global broadcast. We pull a satellite truck up. We work with the people there, students, volunteers and dot broadcast. So thats what we were doing in 2009. We broadcast from seattle, then we were making it was thanksgiving time here. We figured the talks wouldnt be happening here. We talked turkey and canada. We were invited by three community outlooks to give a talk in vancouver public library. We are crossing the border with two colleagues and i, and we are about an hour from vancouver, and they pulled us aside. The custom. And when i handed over my passport and said we want you to come to the facility. It was pouring rain. We are already late for the talk. It was not a good sign. We pulled over. Went to a big warehouse facility, and they said can you come forward . I said i have to get i dont know can i call the chief librarian to say were going to be late . They said we want to know what youre talking about . I said what im talking about at the library . They said yes, hand over your notes. I said are you serious . Its a public talk, you can come. We want your notes. I said i dont actually give speeches like that. I dont really have notes in that way inspect a no mans land on the border, and i knew i couldnt put up too much of a fight because we would miss the talk entirely. And so i said, what i do is pretty much whip off the column of the book and that was breaking the sound barrier. So i said, i pretty much riff off the book. And they said, then give us the book. Our car was filled with book. We got a copy of the book and handed it to the border guard, and one of them started reading it. That was a good thing. Another one started writing in pencil everything i was saying. And another was typing to the commuter. They said what are you going start . I said i thought i would start with the last column. That is about the health care fight in the united. I said interestingly sarah palins book come out at the same time and she went to canada. She was reaming your health care system. You didnt detain her here. Im talking about virtuous of your health care system. I said this is about maybe i could take the book, because the title of the column of last column in the book was and i thought it was about i said Health Care Reform need an action hero. Imagine the scene america 200918,000 people have died in one year an average of almost 50 a day. Who is taking them out . Who is killing them. To investigate president obama might be attempted to call on jack bauer from the hit tv series 24 who employed torture and illegal tactic to help the president fight terrorism. Terrorism suspect the culprit. Its lack of Adequate Health care. Maybe its not jack power but the actor who plays him. Right. The star of 24 is keffer southerland. Whose family has a deep connection in canada. Tommy douglas is his grandfather. He voted in cbc in 2004. The greatest canadian. Tommy douglas was the premiere and as a kid he almost lost his leg, and the doctor saved him. He felt that Public Health care was critical. And so he fought for Public Health care just there. Who took him on remarkably enough . The ama, the american medical association. Afraid the con they onwould spread south. They won there. It became so popular it spread across canada and became the National Health care system for canada. Thats what im telling the Border Guards and writing what im saying down. I said, so maybe i talked about how southerland had gone to alberta and talk about how you mustnt privatize health care in canada. He if he would speak to the audience in united maybe we would get Public Health care passed in the United States. And they said what else are you talking about . I said, well, i was going taunt talk about the economy. The terrible recession, prescription were suffering. What else . I said maybe this is what theyre getting at. I will discuss the war and iraq and afghanistan. What else . Its only an hour talk. They said are you denying youre going talking about the vancouver olympics. Are you denying youre going to be talking about the olympics . And anyone who knows me, i dont deal that much with sports. I like that play them. But i said the olympics you mean that president obama went to copenhagen to get the olympics in chicago and he didnt get them. I said i know that. And they said you mean the real olympics . That made them think i wasnt telling the truth because the vancouver olympics were coming up. Are you denying youre coming thorough talk about this . I said, well, until now i wasnt planning to talk about the vancouver olympics. They pulled me aside and took my picture and my colleagues picture. They stapled documents. And i opened it up and said we have 48hours to stay in canada. Thats as long as our trip was going to be. I was speaking at the university of victoria. We raced up. They had gone out for beers. The audience had come because of what had taken place. I gave my talk. And asked why would people be concerned . Raced to speak the next night. We stayed at the bed and breakfast. Everyone was having tea before dinner at 6 00. I sat down quietly in a room where older folks were having tea and turned on the news. The first story was about me getting detained. Everyone looks over and i said im here to give a speech. The second story was about how in the Vancouver City Council had voted to that anyone who put up a sign against the olympics their house could be raided and athletes could not speak about the corporation that were sponsoring the olympics. The british colombia was involved. There was a great outcry about this. It got a lot of attention in canada they would detain american journalist demand to know what i would say if it wasnt satisfactory to them keep me from coming to the country. We came back to new york and the next show we did was about the vancouver olympics. Let it never be said the state determines that what its democracy now broadcast. On that day it provided host two more questions. How many speeches do you give a year . Guest many. We did the with silence majority about 100 city tours. Sometimes three in a day as were traveling we do the show in the morning and go to universities, we have public events, and mainly they are fundraisers for Community Media station. Host most of your books are dedicated or in memory of your parents. Who were and are they . Guest my wonderful parents. George and dari goodman. My dad died 12 years ago. He was a physician. An ophthalmologist where we grew up in new york in long long island. And he was just committed to our community being a better place. My mother was deeply committed to peace. Is she was a social worker. She taught womens history and literature in local community colleges, and, i mean, the example of my mother who died a few years ago truly wonderful woman. Such a role model for us all. The love in the community as my father was. She womens literature and history are at local community college. Continuing for Truck Drivers and cop and whoever, you know, they get a couple of credits and would mean a higher salary. They come and well take womens literature. It will be easy. And shes teaching them about virginia wolf and tony morrison, the great writers and soon it was a time of womens liberation. Their daughters. Is this what theyre talking about . By the end of the classrooms would be packed with those enrolled and their families. My dad was a famous face in the local Long Island Railroad station. They made poster of a there in a white jacket with a Nuclear Mushroom and said your doctor is worried. So my dad also lead the task force in our community when i was in elementary school, was chose ton lead a task force to integrate the school of our community. We had a diverse community, but it was pretty much de facto segregation where people lived. And so the schools would be the great equalizer. And i would go with him to cafeteria and auditorium of the school. There would be thousand screaming parents. I watch z z as he Death Threats against the task force that was going to be deciding what to do. But ultimately how he just so judiciously made his way through to a more just solution in our community. That is my parents. I lost my parents but their legacy lives on in my and my brothers and all the community. They have been such an inspiration to us. Host amy goodman is our guest. Author and host of democracy now. Now its your turn. Were going to begin with john in santa barbara, california. Hi, john. Caller hi. As i was waiting, i was trying to think what show have i watched longer that. Democracy now . Cspan longer than democracy now. [laughter] but anyway, there is a solution to all of these problems, and its in the constitution, article 5 convention. Congress put out a paper last year about the Article Five Convention. All we need is people like amy goodman and peter slen and cspan and bryan lamp to say its time to [inaudible] and the convention. People at the convention thinking its going to be controlled. Its just open discussion. Theres nothing to control. It would allow for the discussion that youre talking about earlier, amy, where the people can actually come together and build consensus. So my question is, at any point will cspan and democracy now Start Talking about the need for an Article Five Convention . Host amy goodman . Guest explain a little more what its about . Host hes gone. I apologize. Weve gone another caller. Hes talking about a potential constitutional convention. Guest its interesting and i would have to learn more about it. I dont want to be one of the pundit that comments on something i dont know about. Host john in fairfax, virginia, hi, john. Caller hi, peter, amy. You brought tears to my eyes for the first time watching cspan with your remarkable witness to history for assault. Im [inaudible] what democracy now and cspan are [inaudible] listen to you at 5 00 on wpfw and 6 00 on [inaudible] host yes. Caller i appreciate the ability to catch cspan and you too in the same day. I would like that recommend you have more author and book reports that also have a true story to tell. Particularly about 9 11 and the war on drugs. Thank you so much. Guest thank you. You tawsht talk about book author. I was just in denver for a book conference. Remarkably i met a woman who you will soon hear her story. Her name is carlotta. For folks who live in little rock, arkansas, you know the stories. Its a story that made history in this country. She wrote a book. I talked to her yesterday. Well be soon broadcasting the interview. I was so moved by her story. Carlotta was the youngest meive of member of the little rock 9. She was 14 years old in 1957 when she signed a petition would anyone like that go to central high . She went to the africanamerican school, but she knew that the resources were at central high. She signed up. She didnt even tell her parents. The fall came around, and nine of these young people, i mean, she was fourteen years old. Attempt to go to the high school. They attempt once. Its right after little rock explodes. Literally the court house was blown up. The fire chiefs car they put a bomb under it. Still, the kids went. They tried once, but a wild mob prevented them. Then september 23rd, they tried again to integrate the school. Shes 14 years old. They were turned back, but on that day she described how a group of africanamerican reporters from around the country, you know, from the chicago defender and chicago pittsburgh cure cur were cover the civil right movement were trying to cover them. And how to they were set upon and documenting that first ape tack. And they were being beaten and chased then the kids went back far third time. Its hard think about the arkansas the little rock nine as children. How brave they were. And on september 25th, by then after what happened to the black reporters, president eisenhower called out the National Guard they protected them. They went in to the school, and carlotta was the only female member of the little rock 9 who graduated two years later. She left the next morning. She left that city of so much pain yet of so much achievement. And it is voices like those we need to hear all over this country. She was at the National Conference and media reform and talk about the importance of having media that tells the story of people at the grassroots who are engaging in these kinds of act of courage. Even more than fifty years later. Our Production Team tell us that article 5 going back to our first caller article 5 convention is a convention to propose amendment to the u. S. Constitution. Do you have you thought about amendments to the u. S. Constitution at this point you would like guest well. We are covering them as we travel the country. We see the movement building. Theres particularly the movement to amend. Thats a constitutional amendment that would say that corporations are not people. Which is a big movement in this country. The way corporations are treated. Especially when it comes to pouring money to politics as individuals if you viabilitier that ability to give money, youre violating a persons freedom of speech. And many people consider that one of the greatest problem we have to face in this country today. The issue of money in politics. Who gets a say . Who determines who the leaders of the country are . Who are the e lengted officials . Once theyre elected what they vote for. Host andy green felledder emails in, i think amy goodman could have one of the best news program on the air. To do so she would need include multiple point of view. The program usually have a counter main stream slant, which i like because i can get plenty of mainstream in the New York Times and. If she included a main stream guest along with a counter voice we could think through the whole subject and i think she would have a fabulous program. Guest thats an interesting point. Im right here going to democracy now looking at our broadcast from just this past week. We had a really interesting debate. We have many, many debates on democracy now. Two men from nelson, georgia, and they were nelson is the second city in georgia to pass a resolution that pass a law the city Council Passed it unanimously. That every head of household must have a gun. So we had to two members of nelson on. Two res dented of nelson. One a city council that said that way on the highway would pass by nelson if they were going commit a crime. Everyone has a gun. We have someone opposed and said are you going center me arrested . There are category if you are and im not have me arrested. I dont want a gun. And we a debate about it. What does it mean . We had many debates on democracy now. Host katherine in connecticut. Thank you for holding. Youre on with amy goodman, booktv on cspan2. Caller hello. First thing, i want to say thank you, amy. I love democracy now. I think its an important program. Guest thank you. Caller i have two quick questions for you. You said theres something in the title of your last book about hope. I was wondering would you see sign of hope on the Political Landscape . And secondly, you mention the earlier you dont think a lack of voting in this country is due to what do you think t due to . Thank you. Guest you know, i had an first of all, thank you for the call. Thank you for tuning in to democracy now. People can check it out at democracynow. Org. I had an interesting experience on election day 2000. We were then a radio show, not yet a tv she. We got an interesting dhal morning. We were about to go on the air. We got a call from well, they got on the phone and said hi, its the white house. I thought they said this is this is they said this is white house communication. We were about to dont air. The producers were in the studio. I was running in as usual. I said who would be calling right before the show. Its an emergency. The music is already swelling for the beginning of democracy now. And pick it up and say hello. They say white house communication. White horse . Its a famous tavern in new york where dylan thomas drank hymn to death. I said why would a bar be calling us at 9 00 in the morning. I said what do you want . They said the president wants to come on. The president of what . The president of a tavern . They said, president of the United States. I said white house communications. It was bill clinton. He wanted to come on the show. I said the president bill clinton wants to come on democracy now . Hell call you in a few minute. They said he was calling Radio Stations to get out the vote. Of it when Hillary Clinton was running for senate, and al gore was running for president. So i didnt know if this was, you know, a crank call or whatever. I said whatever. We went on the air i said to the producer the president might be calling. Make sure you pick up the phone. He does. We went on with the show for the hour he didnt call. We were going coffee with we knew it would be a long day. Its election day. Who knew that long day would stretch to five weeks . But we get coffee and start the election day coverage, and we hear a yelp coming from the control room. The next show is on, and latino music show and say get in here, the president is on the show. As i run in all of the music faders are up. The microfoafns are done. You hear president clinton saying hello, hello, is anyone there . And so i hurl myself over the board and i brought down all the music faders. Bring up his microphone, yes, mr. President , i understand you want to talk about getting out the vote. I asked him in the beginning about that. I said many people dont vote because they feel both parties are captured by the corporation. What do you have to say about that . He responded. Then he was still on, so i asked him, you know, he was considering clemency for leonard who remains in jail. Leonard is the famous native american activist who was convicted of killing two fbi agents on the pine bridge reservation in 1975. He a crime he continues to this day to maintain he did not commit. And president clinton had never spoken publicly about it. He addressed the issue. Then i was with the latino music programmer, and we went back and forth asking the president questions. Asking about the puerto rican island, the u. S. Navy island was doing that. Asking when they would stop. Asked him about racial profiling. Edasked him. Was a time when ralph neighedder was running. I asked him might he president clinton be responsible for needers success . I think it was at that point he said i find you hostile, combative, and i asked him about racial profiling. Because al gore said if he became president it would be the First Executive order to do away with racial profiling. Said if thats his intention you both have been in power for eight years. Why havent you. Name it until now . Anyway after a half hour he got off the phone. And it got at lough attention. The conversation with the president and the next day i gate call from newsday, local newspaper in new york, and talking to the reporter, and i get another call and from the white house. And so i just put the phone call with the reporter down at the time we used tape recorders. As a physical place to put the phone down. I wasnt recording anything and i said one minute. The white house is on the phone. He happened to hear my end of the conversation. I just put the phone down. This is a time when were using phone and not cell cell phones as much and i said hello. They said something to do with i would be banned from the white house. I said what are you talking about . They said i broke all the basic rules the agreement we had. I said i have no agreement with you. I mean, i was going on the air in one second you said the president might call. Thats with the extent of our conversation. They said, we said he wanted to talk about getting out the vote. And they said Something Like questions one, four, and seven related to that but not the others. I didnt agree that those are the only questions i would ask. I understand thats what he wanted to talk about. We are independent. We are journalists. And i said how many other Radio Stations did he call . They said many. He spoke to 40 journalists. And i said all of them just agreed to ask the questions that you wanted asked . And they said thats right. I said thats a very sad state of comment on the sad state of journalism today. They said and we said he had a few minute. You kept him on the phone for a half hour. He said hes a leader of the free world. He can hang up if he wants to. Im doing my job asking as many question as he could until he decided to get off the phone which he ultimately did anyway. It was a very interesting conversation we had. And it got at lot of attention with headlines that said we went back and forth. That issue of an agreement that you have that journalists have with politicians, you know, i covered the white house, been at the, you know, covering been at the White House Press corp. Coring the president , im afraid that too often journalists engage in, well, the access of evil. That is trading truce for access. Maybe you get another chance to ask the president or and come back to the president or the website or whatever News Organization you have the actual you are the 2000 ask the question. Hole tickses politicians need journalist more than im trying to remember why i told you the story. You asked the question about asked the question host lack of voting and hope. Hope what gives us hope and lack of voting. That was a first question i put to president clinton, you know, the idea that people have across the political spectrum that individuals are losing control that corporations and Corporate Power has is a tremendous threat to democracy right now. Also the issue of privacy. But what gets me hope is that people also across the political spectrum are organizing. People are engaging in the highest civic duty which is to participate. And whatever comes out of that, what matters that the people not the corporation that shown determining the law of the country. Host amy goodman recounts that conversation with the president in exception to the rulers in a chapter called not on bended knee. Theres a transcript here. And this is a first just the first answer and the fist question. Mr. President , are you there . I am. Can you hear me . Yes, you can. You are calling Radio Stations to get out and vote. What do you say to people that the two parties are by corporations and feel their vote doesnt make a difference . My guess is that is the last time you ever talked to president clinton . Host i have, let me see. When we interestingly enough they were establishing the u. S. Embassy. We had a chance to actually challenge him about u. S. Policy. Which was people ghowld to democracynow. Org and had an interesting interaction. Ive never personally interviewed him after that. Host where did you have the presence of find jump right to a conversation with the president of the United States . Guest people prepare their whole live for an interview with the president of the United States. We didnt have that opportunity. He calls in and its a huge responsibility whether talking to a president or anyone else, you know, you are there and not at lack of a lot of people goat ask the question. I see when i hold out the microphone. There are so many people behind us who would have questions if they didnt have to be at work or could only gate get a job. And i take that extremely seriously. As i think many journalists do. What are the questions that make a difference for the most people in this country . Host clinton, now wait a minute. You started this every question you have asked has been hose time and combative. You listen to my answer. Goodman they have been critical questions. Guest he seemed surprised that a journalist asked the questions. Host earnest emails in does democracy now have credential to attend and ask questions of jay carney at the White House Press gathers and if not, why not. Why doesnt democracy now get a change to interview the president or the other Governmental Organization official. Guest we do. We are not at the white house right now, but i do believe we if we wanted to be in the white house prez corp. We could be. Host why dont you . Guest we continue have the resources to did candidate a recorder there now. We do a daily global newshour. We are based in new york city. Host are you still based at the fire station . Guest no. We built our own studio. Its the greenest internet tv radio studio in the country. We have lead platinum certification. The counter top in the green room and the kitchen area are made of crushed recycled bottles cemented together. We in, you know, data centers and our machine room that old tv stations or Radio Stations have to deal with in lots of places deal with data center. We really pioneered a way to because all the electronics give off so much theet work out a way to try to use less energy in dealing with this. Because we really do belief that the medium has to be the message. And also what is interesting about the democracy now broadcast every morning at 8 00 live and stations can run it all day. You can go to our website and watch it live on 58. We put on transcript every day of every hoe. Students come and watch the broadcast. Whether graduate students or fourth graders, kids in high school and college. Its a tremendous opportunity, and, you know, really a Civic Education after the show when the guests come out of the broadcast. They goat ask some questionses. We talk about what journalism is today in a Democratic Society. So it is a wonderful educational forum. We also have lot of volunteer and interns and fellows that these classes that come in to they come from around the world and come from new york city. T been a remarkable experience to be able to hold the forum every day. Host next call for amy goodman. Lee in rockville, maryland. In the suburb. Hi, lee. Caller good morning, amy. I thank you for coming. Guest its great to be here. Caller im a longtime listener i listen to you every morning when i drive work. Guest where do you live . Caller washington. Guest jazz and justice radio. Caller im contributor. Guest excellent. Caller ive been a contributor for many years. I really take issue with your reporting on israel. You vilify israel and vilify israel and vilify israel. Im glad you pointed out this morning or afternoon or earlier how objective you are. When Prime Minister netanyahu spoke to the joint session of the congress a year and a half ago he got twenty or thirty standing elevations. Twenty or thirty standing elevations by the members of congress. In democracy now reported on it, it was not objective, amy. What you said of the something to the effect of Prime Minister netanyahu shouted down by the demonstrators. One, one woman got up and started yelling free palestinian and she was not in the arab country she would have been carted off and flown jail and beaten and raped. In the United States and israel, they dont do that. I they just pick up her and, you know, read her her rights, and then let her go. And you reported your reporting was knit yat netanyahu was shouted down. Not he got twenty or thirty standing elevation. Do you remember that . Host lets gate response. Guest i want to address the larger issue which is a serious one. Its covering the israelpalestinian conflict. How important it is to bring out the voices across the political spectrum. I fear that the media and the united it is changing, but as with reporting on power in the United States often acting as stenographer. We see with israel as well. Journalists presenting the Israeli Government side. We very much bring out different perspectives. I mean, we interview, for example, [inaudible] who is the former Israeli Foreign minister. You said it was the most extensive discussion he had in the United States about israel. You know, we dont just do sound bytes tfght and radio. We give the whole meal. Well have extended debate and discussion about the critical issues. And, you know, we interview palestinian journalist the. People on the ground and georgia and we interview really. I think one area that is overlooked in the United States is the israeli pace movement. I think Public Opinion in the united is shifting dramatically. To the number of palestinian prisonerses they are holding. Palestinian prisoners who died. The protests giving voice to the protests. Those in west bank and gaza. We had a reporter on what has been called the freedom document the attempt to to break the israeli embargo of gaza. What does mean to be on the ship as with other journalist organizations. Sadly when the Israeli Military broaden the ship ashore, they took all of our reporters equipment, computer, camera. It was more than a year ago. They have just written and said theyre not returning it. It is very important we reflect what is happen on the ground. These are difficult truths, but the situation in israel, palestinian must be resolved. Its not good for palestinian. Its not good for israelis. It is a conflict that must be resolved. If you cant get through on the phone line you can go to facebook. Com booktv. You can send us a tweet booktv is our twitter handle. This is from our Facebook Page eye amanda sent several facebook tweet and comment. I want to address a couple of. It there one place on earth you havent traveled you would like to . Guest there are many places i havent traveled. What we do at democracy now is speak with people all over the world. Theres a new film which i recommend to everyone that is coming out in april as well as a book with my colleague. He started working at democracy now in the late 90s. We went to nigeria together. We covered the delta particularly looking at chevron. A few years before when i was doing the local morning show. Maybe i should say what the stations are. I started at wbai in new york. 65 years ago in berkeley, california, its very interesting. It went on the air in the spring of 1970. Its the only Radio Station in the country whose transmater was blown up by the ku klux klan. They went on for a few weeks. Stakeholder not as if they had the money to advertise the new stays and blew it to the consciousness of the potential listening audience. When they got back on the feet rebuilt the transmater. The clan blew it up again. It allow people speak for them. When you hear a palestinian child or an israeli grandmother, and fraudulent iraq or uncle from afghanistan telling their story, it makes it much more difficult to you dont have to agree with them. You start to understand where theyre coming from. I believe that the media can be the greatest force for peace on this earth. Steady its wielded as a weapon of war. I think that has to be challenged. Host one more question from amanda, which is guest let me say i dont know if i said the name of jeremy. I almost he was a producer with democracy now, then he wrote the book his latest book is coming out in the next few weeks. Its called dirty wars. The world is beaght field. Rage bid the United States and the joint special operation command. What is happening ease specially around the issue of drone attack from yemen to somalia to prk. Its interesting we know what is done in our name. We went nigeria at the end of the 90s. We went to the delta to investigate. I met a man a few years before when i was just in the local station doing a show called wakeup call. He was brought in by a nigeria activist. I said our show is full. I hadnt heard of him. They said hes here for one day. He needs to go on. Two minutes. He introduced himself. He was one of the most famous nigerian. He was a writer famous soap opera. Threw in his lot with the people. And he was taking on shell corporation, which chris cris crossed with the hype and unlike the united where its ill reel. They would flair off the gas he said when i go home im a marked man and will be arrested. We dumped guest after guest that morning. Of it so remarkable. I tried to resolve i would go to nigera ya. He went home. And he was jailed with eight other minority rights activist. Within a year it was november 10th, 1995, after a trial he was executed. We went back to nigeria we visited his family, one of the men in his Community Came forward after they sack a song and method his parent who since died. The man came forward and recounted for us the last speech in court. Because there was an oil spill. And they were wanted the forest cleaned up and they wanted jobs. And ultimately the chevron threw in the military on the barge and opened fire anded two other killed and did a documentary. Its those kind of stories that shed a spotlight on american might not know about. Why is it could happen in nigeria . Its our job as journalist to go where to the silence is and bring back the story. I think people are deeply concerned about the sucking sound. We are seeing the largest gap in inequality. We have to really evaluate the system we need e lengted leaders. An email from richard. What happened to the occupy wall Street Movement of a year ago . Did it fall through facility to achieve the objective . Is such an endeavor hopeless . The general unmobilized for whatever reason . The occupy movement i dont think we have seen the end of it. I think it take different forms. But what happened in the last two years around the world was truly remarkable. First, you had the tunisia revolution at the end of december. 2010. Which sparked the egyptian uprising and the egyptian uprising