Transcripts For CSPAN2 HHS 20240704

40 minutes. I ask our seats to take seats and members as well. Secretary becerra has requested that we get him out of here at 12 30 or before, so were going to try to make that happen if we can. All right. The subcommittee on oversight and investigations will now come to order. I recognize myself for five minutes for an Opening Statement. Mr. Griffith welcome, secretary becerra. I appreciate you keeping your word and appearing before this subcommittee related to the office of Refugee Resettlement or o. R. R. O. R. R. Is an agency of the department of health and human agencies and is responsible for the unaccompanied children. O. R. R. Has faced an unprecedented surge in the number of unaccompanied minors referred to its custody. The numbers of unaccompanied minors crossing our born is astronomically high. From fiscal years 2018 through 2020, o. R. R. Averaged around 5,000 referrals per year. As of march 31, 2023, which is the last time they made their numbers public, the agency had received almost 60,000 referrals in fiscal year 2023. Putting the agency on pace for over 120,000 referrals for the third year in a row. You and i dont agree on the policies that brought these children to our border. But i believe no matter the policies, once they are in our care, and we have taken on the responsibility for them, we must care for them properly. Todays hearing is to take stock of how h. H. S. And o. R. R. Have responded to the surge of these children. When thousands of Vulnerable Children were in custody under o. C. R. R. O. R. R. , what was the message that was sent . Hopefully its to make sure these children are placed in sief environments to people they are related to and make sure that state and local welfare agencies would have them get likely needed sfshts. It services. It does appear that childrens welfare was not a primary concern. Thanks to a whistleblower and a New York Times reporting, we know there was constant neglect when handling the intake and release of these children. According to a recording obtained by the New York Times regarding the o. R. R. Unaccompanied minors. You stated, if henry ford had seen these in his plans, he would have never became famous and rich. This is not the way you do an Assembly Line. End quote. Is that statement consistent with how youve intended to run o. R. R. s unaccompanied Childrens Program . Well, i hope not. The overriding priorities seems to have been moving children out of o. R. R. Facilities as quickly as possible. And not protecting them. That would explain why you would have approved field guidance 10 which exat the indicts release to children to Family Members and waiving background checks to make sure the sponsor is in fact a Family Member. It would also explain your approval of o. R. R. Field guidance 11, which waives background check requirements for unrelated adults who live in the same residence a minor is being sent to. This is a great concern and i have been vocal about the failure of o. R. R. To provide bona fide background checks. In 2021 i visited the emergency room intake at fort bliss, texas. I was shocked what i learned there. There was no collaboration with Law Enforcement for real background checks when vetting sponsors and the, quote, public records check, end quote, that they were using was merely a widely available internet Search Engine. A september, 2022, report about fort bliss. Under your leadership, they had contracts worth billions of dollars which seem to be influx care facilities designed to quickly process hundreds of minors. My fear is no matter what your intentions may be, you may be putting o. R. R. On a Permanent Assembly line footing where Child Welfare simply is not a priority. As i close id like to enter into a record a report by a statewide grand jury in florida charged with investigating o. R. R. It is damning. It details chapter and verse how the policies and practices have resulted in Child Exploitation and trafficking. Ill end by quoting the grand jurys assessment. If any resident of florida exposed u. S. Quote, if any resident of florida exposed u. S. Born children to this process, they would be justifiably arrested for child neglect or worse. We do the no think children should be less protected simply because they were born outside our borders and brought here by a government agency. Ive been saying that for years. As a former domestic relations lawyer in virginia, the same related to the Legal Standard would be true in virginia as well. O. R. R. Actions are equal to neglect. The childs legal status in this country is irrelevant and or must do better how you go back. I now recognize the gentlewoman from florida, ms. Castor, the Ranking Member of the subcommittee for her five minute Opening Statement. Ms. Castor well, thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Welcome, mr. Secretary. Unaccompanied children seeking refuge in the us are some of the most vulnerable among us. They often cross the border alone, escaping persecution, violence and abuse. The experience would be frightening and confusing for anyone let alone a child who may not speak english. So we have a moral and legal obligation to ensure that unaccompanied children are safe and cared for. The office of refugee settlement is tasked under the law with the responsibility to keep unaccompanied children well and safe from the time they are transferred from the department of Homeland Security to the time they are placed with vetted sponsors who are more often than not Family Members. Earlier this year, news reports detailed cases of unaccompanied minors working in harsh conditions in plants and factories. The reports were shocking and deeply disturbing. Businesses are exploiting children as a source of cheap labor and preying on their financial desperation. This type of Child Exploitation must not be tolerated even tolerated. Even though o. R. R. Has limited authorities under the law and limited resources, there is more that can be done to protect these children. For example, o. R. R. Is now expanding oversight and services to children after they are placed with families and sponsors per the funding that congress provided in last years omnibus appropriations bill. O. R. R. Is also working more closely with the department of labor to address labor issues. And the h. H. S. Inspector general recommended and as the h. H. S. Inspector general recommended h. S. H. S. Is working to expand Network Capacity and modernize the portal that allows o. R. R. To monitor, monitor the best interests of the children. I look forward to hearing from you, mr. Secretary, about o. R. R. s work to eliminate the risk of labor trafficking, to enhance services after the placement with sponsors and to improve the reporting of abuse. That is the kind of oversight that this subcommittee must be doing. And i commend the chair for this hearing and to the secretary for attending. But this meaningful Oversight Effort is an exception because the majority has been focused on various partisan tangents of most of this congress aimed at sowing distrust in Public Servants in our health institutions. One farout tangent that i hope we can put to rest is the g. O. P. s baseless allegations regarding the validity of certain n. I. H. Institute and center directors. For months, energy and commerce republicans have made unfounded claims that 14 directors of n. I. H. Institutes and centers served illegally for over two years because they were not directly reappointed by secretary becerra. The g. O. P. Members point to a section of the 21st century cures act holding up a graphic that states that such directors shall be appointed by the secretary. But they intentionally obscured the most important part of that statute which states that when making director appointments, the secretary acts through the director of the National Institutes of health. Republicans inexplicably blurred out the clear language of the statute . Why language of the statute. Why . It appears to be an attempt to spin up yet another conspiracy. This is especially bizarre because it was republicans who insisted on transferring the authority to appoint nihc directors from the secretary to the director of n. I. H. Over the objections of the Obama Administration in 2016. It is wrong to deliberately mislead the public and it is strange to do so involving language that g. O. P. Members wrote themselves. This congress, my republican colleagues have taken every opportunity to intimidate scientists and malign Public Health officials. In sowing distrust in our vital Health Research agencies and Public Health experts, republicans are playing a dangerous game. Americans depend on the work of these dedicated Public Servants to keep us safe and healthy and its time for the harassment to end. This committee has real work to do on so many issues preparing for the next pandemic, tackling devastating drug shortages, protecting Online Privacy and developing solutions to reduce climate pollution thats wreaking havoc and costing us more every day. The care of unaccompanied children is among the issues that demands congress attention. Lets focus on that issue today instead of the fabricated ones, mr secretary, we are committed to making sure o. R. R. Does its job and does it right. Thank you for being here today and i look forward to the discussion of these real issues. I yield back my time. Mr. Griffith i appreciate the lady yielding back. And now i recognize the lady from washington, the chair woman of the full committee, mrs. Mcmorris rodgers. Mrs. Rodgers we as the elected representatives of the people seek answers and transparency from you as the secretary of health and Human Services. Today, were working to assure the safety and well being of unaccompanied children crossing the border, some of the most vulnerable among us. Under president biden, we faced the worst border crisis in our history. O. R. R. Received referrals for more than 350,000 unaccompanied children over the course of the first three years of this presidency. That is more than 120,000 unaccompanied minors passing through o. R. R. s custody annually. This is unprecedented. Prior to president biden, the largest single year of total referrals was about 69,000. As the New York Times has uncovered, this border crisis has left children alone and exploited and these are just a few of the gutwrenching examples. 13 and 14yearolds are working 12hour shifts on farms and factories. Children dropping out of school or never signing up because they owe a debt to the smuggler that trafficked them. Children running away from their sponsors, the winds that o. R. R. Placed them with because they were being sold for sex. Were going to talk a lot about the 85,000 children that o. R. R. Could not contact after placement. O. R. R. Claims that its 81 successful post release contact rate is a significant accomplishment. Its not a success when the agency has lost contact with a third of the Migrant Children during the first two years of the Biden Administration. And the postrelease followup is already a low bar. O. R. R. Considers it a success if they merely speak with a child or a sponsor over the phone. Secretary becerra, im especially concerned about the specific policies and practices that youve put in place that prevent or from vetting sponsors. Why would you waive criminal background checks including checks of the sex offender and the child abuse registries for sponsors and other adults living in households where children are placed . Why would you allow, under your watch, digital fingerprinting to confirm the identity of the sponsors to drop by 55 . Why would you allow at least 30,000 minors to be handed over to someone o. R. R. Knows that theyre not related to . As an internal memo revealed, the department has become, quote, one that rewards individuals for making quick releases and not one that rewards individuals for preventing unsafe releases. The consequences of these decisions are entirely foreseeable. And again, thanks to the New York Times, we know that reports reached your desk that children were at risk. The American People must know how you could possibly have ignored these warning signs and continue to put more children in danger of exploitation. As i mentioned, this isnt the only example of mismanagement and abuses of power at hhs. As secretary, you failed to follow the law in the constitution to reappoint the 14 n. I. H. Officials, including dr. Fauci. As a result, they exercised power and authority they didnt legally have in approving billions of dollars in taxpayerfunded grants. There is a crisis of confidence at our Public Health agencies, including c. D. C. , f. D. A. , and n. I. H c. M. S. Is denying seniors approved alzheimers medications and dragging its feet on meaningful Price Transparency rules to lower drug costs. The f. D. A. s Baby Formula Shortage caused panic and harm to mothers, fathers and children across the nation and you failed to provide us the transparency for president bidens radical spending agenda that fueled record breaking inflation. And the h. H. S. O. I. G. Just reported a massive amount of fraud and waste in the covid19 Uninsured Program which grew dramatically under your watch. For the sake of time, i wont go on, but ill close by saying this. H. H. S. Has lost sight of its mission. As chair griffith said, there seems to be more concerned with politics and power than the American Peoples safety and well being. And im very concerned about a culture of arrogance and lawlessness. As, as i started, were the elected representatives of the people and we are demanding transparency and responsiveness. This culture must change and it must change at the very top, starting with your leadership and taking responsibility for your actions. Youre testifying before the committee under oath. We expect and need honest and complete answers for what has happened. Thank you and i yield back. Mr. Griffith thank you. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the full committee, mr. Pallone, for his fiveminute Opening Statement. Mr. Pallone thank you, mr. Chairman. Earlier this year, i was alarmed by reports of children who came to this country alone only to be exploited by their sponsors and companies that illegally employed them. And im pleased that secretary becerra is here to explain what the office of refugee settlement is doing to better address this cruel abuse. O. R. R. Has been in a difficult position. Its budget and authorities are limited particularly in the period after a child is released into the custody of his sponsor. This is a critical time for the detection and remediation of any exploitation. In 2021 the Biden Administration inherited a crisis in the aftermath of the Trump Administrations inhumane family separation policy and o. R. R. Acted quickly to reunify families, place children in the care of sponsors, build emergency facilities, and hire staff, and those efforts were necessary. By responding to this crisis also revealed areas for improvement. O. R. R. Must stay vigilant in its work to identify and respond to exploitation both in the sponsor vetting process and when they are released into the care of their sponsor. And i look forward to hearing how o. R. R. Is accelerating this important work, including through its joint efforts with the department of labor to combat illegal child labor. This hearing is entitled stopping the exploitation of Migrant Children, and everyone fully supports that goal. Unfortunately, i believe the actions that my republican colleagues are taking would make this situation worse, not better. This Congress Republicans have routinely tried to chip away at the right to legal asylum even as they decried Child Exploitation. Republicans nearly unanimously supported legislation that would reverse critical safeguards for kids who were trafficked. And this Republican Action would leave these kids in department of Homeland Security facilities for up to 10 times as long as the legal limit. And republicans continue to cave to their extreme right wing of their party by pushing for dramatic budget cuts that would set back any progress that o. R. R. Has made in protecting unaccompanied minors. For example, most recently, House Republicans on the Appropriations Committee are pushing an annual funding bill that would cut the unaccompanied Childrens Program funding by 3. 3 billion in the upcoming fiscal year. This drastic funding cut would severely hinder the offices ability to provide Services Like Mental Health care and Legal Services that would help detect and prevent the very kind of abuse that this hearing is supposedly about. And frankly, tearing down important agencies rather than supporting their essential work has been a theme this year under the republican majority. While our committee has traditionally been able to stay above the fray, im concerned that is no longer the case. The republican majority continues to push a legally flawed theory that 14 National Institutes of Health Centers and Institute Directors were improperly appointed. These allegations ignored language in the 21st century cures act that they put former republican chair fred upton and former congressman joe barton deliberately saying that the secretary should act through the n. I. H. Director. So this socalled investigation simply is not based in law. Its also a huge waste of the committee and its members time. Members time. We have so many more important issues to deal with than this committee. Republicans have also continued other baseless investigations including harassing a senior n. I. H. Scientist to sit for a transcribed interview about a Research Project that never occurred. They continue to press the theory that covid19 leaked from the Wuhan Institute of virology without any real evidence. Theyre fixated on manufacturing partisan scandals to discredit the work of our Public Servants, intimidate researchers and promote frivolous litigation. Again, we have so many more important issues to deal with. The republican majoritys attacks only distract from the important oversight work that children deserve and that americans depend on. And i look forward to hearing from secretary becerra about how o. R. R. Plans to identify and respond to violations of childrens rights. But again, thank you, mr. Chairman, and i look forward to us hearing from the secretary. Mr. Griffith thank you, mr. Ranking member, for yielding back. That includes the members Opening Statements. Pursuant to committee rules, all members written Opening Statements will be made part of the record. Please provide that to the clerk promptly. We want to thank you, mr. Secretary, for being here today and taking your time to testify before the subcommittee. You will have an opportunity to give an Opening Statement followed by a round of questions from members. I think its pretty obvious that our witness today is secretary becerra of the department of health and Human Services. We look forward to hearing from you and i will now recognize you for your Opening Statement. You want me to swear him in first . All right. I was going to let you give your Opening Statement before we swore you in. You are aware this committee is holding an oversight hearing and in doing so, we have the practice of taking our testimony under oath. Do you have any objection to testifying under oath . You are also entitled to seeing no objection, well proceed. The chair advises youre also entitled to be advised by counsel pursuant to house rules. Do you desire to be advised by counsel during your testimony today . And the witness has indicated thats not necessary. So if you would please rise and raise your right hand. Do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help god. The gentleman has affirmatively so stated. And you are now sworn in and under oath and subject to the penalty said fourth title 18 section 1001 of the United States code. With that, we will now recognize you for your five minute Opening Statement. Secretary becerra mr. Chairman and members, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. Im here at the chairmans request to discuss the department of health and Human Services unaccompanied children program. Within the office of Refugee Resettlement and the work that we are continually doing to ensure the safety and wellbeing of children in our care. The programs mandate is directed at providing temporary care and shelter for unaccompanied children and securing appropriately vetted sponsors who can assume custody and provide a home for the children during the tendency of their immigration proceedings. I want to address reports that have flagged an increase in children being employed illegally and exploited by companies. This is real, its repulsive and its unacceptable. I say this as the son of a Road Construction worker who as the oldest child had to leave school after the sixth grade, he never got to go back. Unlawful child labor is not limited to Migrant Children. But unaccompanied children released from o. R. R. Custody may be particularly vulnerable to unscrupulous employers. Hhs is coordinating with the department of labor and other partners to assist their efforts to further crack down on illegal child labor at hhs. We follow the law, employers and companies should do the same. Hhs is proud to do our part in the critical work to care for unaccompanied children. We have a dedicated team of professionals at o. R. R. Who oversee their care and placement with vetted sponsors. I hold our team and the entire department to the highest standard to ensure we are delivering on our mission to provide care that is in the childs best interest. Let me be clear about how we approach this work. Ovrment o. R. R. Funds nearly 300 programs in 27 states such as shelter programs, transitional care, long term care, group homes, staff, secure facilities and Residential Treatment Centers at these facilities. At these facilities, ovrment provides child o. R. R. Provides child appropriate Services Including education, health care and counseling services, Case Management services, recreation, access to Legal Services, access to religious services and access to child advocates. Where applicable. These services are delivered according to Child Welfare, best practices in a manner that is appropriate to the age, culture, preferred language, and needs of each child. O. R. R. Also works to maintain a preparedness posture by ensuring it can quickly scale up capacity if needed. We know and Child Welfare experts will tell you that the best place for a child is in a home with a family, in a community, not in a congregate care setting. That is why we work so hard to find appropriate custodial sponsors for these children. This fiscal year, o. R. R. Has placed over 83,000 children with vetted sponsors. More than 85 of those children released to vetted sponsors were placed with a parent, legal guardian or close Family Member. The average length of time a child spends in h. H. S. Care before being placed with a vetted sponsor is currently less than one month. Of course, it is not always possible to place a child with a parent, legal guardian or close Family Members member. In these cases, which is fewer than 15 of children, o. R. R. Takes steps, additional steps and precautions in the sponsor vetting process prior to the placement of the child. H. H. S. s custodial responsibility for unaccompanied children legally ends once we place them in the custody of a vetted sponsor. Nevertheless, o. R. R. Has enacted policies to help identify challenges and opportunities to support and protect children following their release from h. H. S. s custody. This is where there seems to be the most misunderstanding, mr. Chairman. In fact, i heard that just a child ago. So mr. Chairman, let me repeat what i just said. H. H. S. s custodial responsibility for unaccompanied children legally ends once we place them in the custody of a vetted sponsor. Thats not me saying it, thats congress law as it was passed into statute. But h. H. S. We at h. H. S. , we voluntarily do more to support and protect these children. Furthermore, we are committed to expanding access to post release services with Adequate Funding appropriated by you, by congress. Mr. Chairman, children are children. But the children who have come into o. R. R. Care face unique challenges that require a whole of government approach. Including our partners in congress, fellow federal agencies, state and local agencies and national and community partners. I hope that we can continue to Work Together to care for and support children in the best interest of our nation. I thank you and yield back. Mr. Griffith the gentleman yields back. I thank you for your testimony. Well now move to the question and answer portion of the hearing and i will begin questioning by recognizing myself for five minutes. All right, lets talk about these combidz kids. Your duty ends once theyre properly placed. Question number one. Its my understanding that you all do not notify the local department of social services or other local Child Welfare agency in the community in which a child is being placed. Is that correct . Yes or no . Secretary becerra mr. Chairman, we have to protect the privacy of children, as you would expect for any child. And so we try not to provide information about the child. Mr. Griffith so you dont provide that information to local Child Welfare agencies that the child has been placed there or the school system. Isnt that correct . Secretary becerra we work with the local agencies, once the child that has been placed if theres a need to support them with regard to for example, school or other social services. So we will work with local agencies where necessary. Mr. Griffith when a familial relationship is claimed, do you all do any kind of a d. N. A. Test to establish a genetic link between the sponsor and the child . And i ask that question it became more poignant last night as i was watching sound of freedom because the bad guy was bringing a child whod been kidnapped across the border, the good guys were there to intercept but he presented fake documents claiming to be the uncle of the child. So do yall do a d. N. A. Test . Because i got to tell you, mr. Secretary, my information indicates that you all do a dna test, uh, in about 23 of the cases and thats usually looking for child predators of some sort, not familiar relationship. Is that true . Secretary becerra mr. Chairman, we go through a thorough vetting process for each and every sponsor. We make every effort to try to find the closest relative for that child. And one of the tools that we use is d. N. A. Testing, voluntary d. N. A. Testing. Mr. Griffith but you dont do that in every case where a familiar relationship is claimed. Isnt that true . Secretary becerra well, we make sure we can verify the identity of the person. So for example, we will use birth certificates, we will use other documentation that proves who the individual is a birth individual is. Mr. Griffith a birth certificate coming from another country, just like the passports presented in the film last night may be forged. You would agree that documents can be forged and thats not necessarily reliable. And i guess i gotta tell you, im a member of ancestry. Com and i have their d. N. A. Test. They can tell me about fourth cousins that i never knew existed on my fathers side. Theres a way to do this. And if were truly going to properly vet before we place these children, we need to be doing more d. N. A. Testing. Let me move on. Secretary becerra thats why we use d. N. A. Testing where it could help. Mr. Griffith occasionally. Id like to go over the sponsored vetting process in more detail. I checked this morning and field guidance guidance is 10 and 11 are still in effect. O. R. R. Continues to waive background checks for people claiming to be distant Family Members and for other adults who live in the house with a child is being placed with that as a background. I would have to ask that o. R. R. Only completed fingerprint checks in 23 of cases. What percentage percentage of sponsors now have completed fingerprint checks before you place a child with them. Secretary becerra mr. Chairman, we place the care and well being of every unaccompanied child as our highest priority. And thats why i need to clarify what you and others have said because youve misunderstood field guidance 10 and 11. You applied it to every child and it does not apply to every child. Those two guidances, field guidance 10 applies to on only to children who are either eligible to be assigned to a parent, a legal guardian mr. Griffith or somebody who purports to be a close family relative. Secretary becerra and we have to document and prove before we release that child you mr. Griffith but they might be forged. Secretary becerra all right. We do everything to make sure that no one gets through the process. Mr. Griffith i just had a conversation with case managers about a very case where someone tried to present fraudulent information and, and i appreciate that. Look, let me make this clear to everybody. I know you got a tough job and i wanna work with you to try to solve some of these problems. I appreciate you saying that. But i, but i, i am concerned when i see statements like the new, what appeared in the New York Times article which ive asked to be incorporated into the record where according to the recording, it says, you said, if henry ford had seen this in his plants, he would have never become famous and rich. This is not the way you do an Assembly Line. You want to explain that . Im gonna give you a chance to explain that because thats a, thats a damning statement. And on top of the florida report which says that you know, which i agree with that. If, if we were treating us children this way, itd be considered neglect and somebody be going to jail, please explain. Secretary becerra and thank you, mr. Chairman, for giving me a chance to explain. Because there is a simple explanation for that. As you said yourself, and i think every member has said, we were facing deep challenges trying to make sure that children were not stuck in the department of Homeland Securitys adult detention facilities. That is not a place for children. So we need to make sure we had a safe place for them to be. Good bed, the care they needed. So we need to be very efficient with the work we were doing to always have a bed available. So what i said is we need to make sure were working efficiently. Its about process, not people, henry ford would not have become famous simply because he produced a lot of vehicles. He became famous because he produced good Quality Vehicles at a time when it was tough to do so. We want to do quality work. You cant do that if one day you do well and the next day you dont. My comment dealt with the process, not the people. Mr. Griffith and i will close by saying i still think theres a lot to be done. Im glad to hear you say those things. But theres a lot to be done because i think were letting too many children and, and even one is not acceptable, but were having hundreds or thousands of children who are slipping through the cracks and a better job needs to be done. And i think using more dna testing and more real background checks instead of just a background check that is internet Search Engine would be helpful. I now yield back and now recognize the Ranking Member of the subcommittee, ms. Castor, for five minutes. Ms. Castor thank you, mr. Chairman. These stories of corporations and businesses exploiting children for, for cheap labor, labor to maximize their profits are just appalling. So ive learned digging into this that after hhs and the office of Refugee Resettlement places an unaccompanied child with a sponsor, often a Family Member that the Legal Authority for hhs ends. But as congress provided in the last appropriations bill, weve given extra money to o. R. R. To do better, to begin to allow h. H. S. To provide postrelease services to all unaccompanied children. And h. H. S. Has set a goal to do that for all children by 2024. Im pleased that o. R. R. Has doubled the rate of children receiving such services from fiscal year 2021 to 2022. And Congress Needs to monitor the progress here. When you say that o. R. R. Will provide postrelease services to 100 of unaccompanied children, what does that mean in practice . And what kind of services and support can children expect to receive . Secretary becerra congresswoman, first, i want to thank you for making it clear. It is tough to do work when you dont have the Legal Authority to do more. We wee would love to do everything we do while we have the child in our custody. But once we release that child into the hands of a vetted sponsor, we lose that custodial responsibility. And so if congress wishes to give us more responsibility to, to watch over these kids, even after they have been assigned to a sponsor, please go right ahead because everyone cares about the care of these kids. What do we do . What does it mean to have postrelease services . And, again, these are mostly all voluntary because we dont have authority to actually require kids or the sponsors to respond back to us. But we do well child checks. We want to make sure that theyre ok once they transition out. So we make an effort to call them. The kids and the sponsors are under no obligation to answer the call or return the call. We also provide services to those who may be in need of particular social services, Mental Health services, Educational Services. So well try to do postrelease services there. All of that is principally contingent on Congress Giving us the funding to do that because thats not the core activity that youve given us money to do. If you institute the cuts that i see the house is moving towards, it would devastate our program, not just to provide postrelease services, but just to do the basic work of caring for these kids in our centers and our licensed facilities. Mr. Castro ms. Castor so these postrelease services, theyre wellness checkins where you call and its really up to the sponsors and the children, too, can we do better on that . Do you prioritize in any way . Some of some of the unaccompanied children uh dont go with a parent or a Family Member . Does that, does that kind of raise the bar for, for those check ins . Secretary becerra yeah. Were always looking for ways to provide better care. Remember, these are kids who are coming to us many suffering from a great deal of trauma. And so we do everything we can while theyre in our care and were trying to do everything we can even after we lose custody of them when they are with their vetted sponsor. So were constantly looking for ways to do that. One of the ways were doing that, especially on labor exploitation is working with the department of labor through a formal memorandum of agreement where we will try to each share information so we can track if someone, an employer is being abusive and if theres a child who may be the subject of abuse in labor. Ms. Castor does this include Legal Services . Because these children now are often theyre going into the Immigration Service or if theres a case of Child Exploitation, those attorneys or advocates are kind of their best hope for justice. Does this include Legal Services . Secretary becerra it does. And we are under statute required to provide it to certain individuals. So if a child has come to us and we have information that they child was being exploited, sexually exploited, for example, before coming into our care, we are required by law to make sure we provide followup services. But we try to provide those same kind of followup Services Even to children by statute we are not obligated to do because it makes sense. And so one of those areas is Legal Services. How far it depends on how much resources you provide us so we can extend that service to them. Ms. Casts cas ms. Castor thank you, mr. Secretary. And i think it should go said to all the folks across the country who are taking care of children, whether theyre in uh the group homes, they are counselors. I visited churches in my district who are the trusted care providers for these unaccompanied children before theyre released to their sponsors. And i just want to say thank you to all of the folks who are working to keep kids healthy and well. Secretary becerra ill take that back. Mr. Griffith i now recognize dr. Burgess. Sorry. Just going off the road. Recognize dr. Burgess for his fiveminute of questions. The gentleman from texas is recognized. Mr. Burgess thank you, mr. Chairman. I do want to start out by saying this committee, indeed, this subcommittee, which established a lot of the parameters for the care of the unaccompanied immigrant child going back to 2014 when we had the vast influx of Central American children at Lackland Air Force base in san antonio. And it was only the oversight of this committee that provided those children a modicum of medical screenings and medical care. Now, continuing on the chairmans line of questioning about the use of verifiable d. N. A. Evidence, was actually found in the Previous Administration that when you did that and thats a little upstream from your responsibilities. But when there was an attempt made to verify parentage or familiar relationship, those cases dropped dramatically because the people who were using a child is basically get out of jail free card to come into this country recognized that if they were a non match with genetic material, they were going to be charged with kidnapping. And so it was a pretty Serious Business and those numbers did diminish. So you can agree or disagree with the the rightness or wrongness of doing that certification of parentage. But i agree with the chairman, they simply query and google as to whether or not someone is someones uncle or aunt is probably not satisfactory when you have within your capability, the the ability to to ability to scientifically check. And then unfortunately, that leads to situations from a florida statewide grand jury investigation, a Single Family home in austin, texas had more than 100 children sent to it by office of Refugee Resettlement, not by the cartels. By you all. Another texas resident address had 44 children and a third had 25 again sent to them by o. R. R. , not by the cartels, but by you. Thats the reason this needs to be as tight as tight can be. Secretary becerra dr. Burgess, let me first begin by saying in your earlier comments, you are absolutely right that especially with technology, its becoming so much easier to forge documents and it is really important that you try to prove that you who you are, who you are, especially if youre going to get custody of a child. So we, we hear you and were willing to work with you because were constantly striving to make sure that the person who is going to become that sponsor is who he or she says. So i fully agree with that point. I will say this on the point about sending a number of children into the same general geographic area. Mr. Burgess the same house address. Not the general geographic area. Secretary becerra i would say to you there is no home that im aware of that has gotten 40 some odd kids. But what i will tell you is that there are places where immigrant communities flock. And so it should not surprise anyone that you have a lot of children that end up in the same communities because as my parents, as my father ended up in sacramento, california because thats where a lot of his relatives and friends, my his parents, relatives and friends. Mr. Burgess if i may. This is not an isolated incident. The houston chief of police who is certainly not a republican also complained about the same phenomenon occurring in houston, texas, but we will provide to you to your office that information and would appreciate your response to that. Secretary becerra absolutely. Mr. Burgess let me move on to another thing. And this has really troubled me for well over a decade. And when we were beginning our investigation, this committee on the screening, medical screenings available to unaccompanied imMigrant Children. Theres a concern about tuberculosis. Tuberculosis in the state of texas is a reportable illness. But if you never look, youre never gonna find it. And i remember the statements made to me were that well, look, if you get a positive t. B. Test, then this obligates you to a long period of therapy. The treatment is 10 months or longer. And if you dont follow through with treatment, youre going to lead to drug resistant tuberculosis. So it is important to do the followthrough. So certainly testing wasnt done at c. B. P. Testing was not done at o. R. R. Because the children were not going to be in custody long enough. But it leads to a downstream problem. And you and i both know an episode of multiple drug resistant tb in one of our neighborhood schools is going to be big trouble. Would you agree with that . Secretary becerra we you point out something very real because as you stated, we only have the child in our care for a short amount of time. And so we do work with not just c. B. P. At the department of Homeland Security when the children come to us, we provide the medical care that they need while they are with us. We make sure that no child is infectious when we release them, but they have to follow up on Something Like tuberculosis with local health care authorities. Mr. Burgess but the problem is the followthrough on that leaves a lot to be desired. You know, at the same time, if the administrations priority seems to be facilitating abortions for a child who would want one, if were willing to put that much energy into providing in providing an abortion, shouldnt we put that much energy into providing, to make certain a child is not infectious, carrying tb into our communities. Secretary becerra doctor, you raise a great point on the tuberculosis issue. We would if you gave us authority to actually follow a child to make sure that the child is following through on medical or Health Care Services that they need, especially to keep not just themselves but others safe. We would take that authority but we dont have that authority. Mr. Burgess thats the authority exists in current state law. Its a reportable illness in the state of texas. Secretary becerra yeah. But we dont have to require that action be taken if the sponsor or the child is not getting the care. If some, if some medical community is not offering the care, we dont have any ability to say you really should do this for the safety of the community. Mr. Griffith the gentlemans time is up. Gentleman yields back. Now recognize the gentleman from new york, mr. Tonko, for his five minutes. Mr. Tonko thank you, mr. Chair. Thank you, secretary, for appearing before the subcommittee and thank you for the leadership that you provide. Your team reports earlier this, cited criticism of o. R. R. Sponsor vetting. I want to begin by asking how about how the current process works and where there may be a need for improvement. O. R. R. Is legally obligated to release children to sponsors and i quote without unnecessary delay. So o. R. R. Has to strike a careful balance between rigorously vetting sponsors and the reality that it cannot legally or ethically hold children in shelters indefinitely. Children held in any congregate care facility for prolonged periods of time can suffer damaging physical and Psychological Health effects. It is in the best interest of the child to release that individual to caring sponsors as soon as the sponsor is vetted as safe. So secretary becerra, your testimony goes into detail about the sponsor vetting process and the types of vetting that happens depending on the sponsors relationship with the child. I want to make certain we all understand what happens during that vetting process and clear up any misconceptions. Can you briefly describe what goes into o. R. R. Sponsor vetting process . Secretary becerra congressman, thank you. Because there is so much misunderstanding and misinformation about the vetting process. We begin by searching for a sponsor who is as close to the child as possible. Obviously, the parents would be the closest guardian. Adult sibling, grandparents. Those what we call those folks category one sponsors because they are the closest to them. We have to go through the process of verifying that they are who they say they are. So they each sponsor must submit a detailed application, giving us information about their identity, their address their relationship to the child. They must provide additional supporting documents. They must provide us with records whether its a birth certificate or whether its a drivers license, they must go through background checks, they have to go through a home study where we actually send people to talk specifically with the potential sponsor and household members. If we need to confirm more information and oftentimes, we will also do voluntary d. N. A. Testing. But we do everything we can to verify that the people are who they say they are. Mr. Tonko thank you. And how does o. R. R. Standard of review differ from considering a sponsor application from a close Family Member versus when it considers a sponsor application from a nonFamily Member . And why is it important for o. R. R. To differentiate between these categories of sponsors . Secretary becerra thank you for that question. People are confusing this. There are sponsors who are unrelated to the child may be Close Friends but unrelated by blood to the child. We do far more work to try to make sure that that person is, who he or she says he is or she is because theyre not related and they that category one where its the parent or the guardian or a very close relative. If they are providing us with valid documentation, then we want because its in the best interest of the child, we try to move that child to that parent without delay. There was a time early in 2021 when there was delay because of the number of kids we had and simply trying to get to all of the children was tough. Now, thats why we are under a one month of stay in our care because were able to now process especially those category one sponsors far quicker because so long as we get the valid information, theres no reason to keep a child from being with a parent or a legal guardian. If youre a relative but not real close relative, well, we have to do more vetting to make sure that you are who you say you are. We contact the parents in the home country, we ask them to verify, we ask the children, do you know this individual . We go through a number of steps. Thats why virtually all of the children that re we release to a vetted sponsor are related to that sponsor because we make every effort to make sure its with family, hopefully very near family, parent, adult, adult sibling, grandparent or not, maybe a cousin. But we go through more checks and if not a cousin, not a relative, then youre going to go through a lot of checks. Thats why we have what we call our category four kids. Its tough to find any type of relative sponsor. Its tough to find anyone who is a close friend that we have found verifiable. And so we have a category of children whove been in our care for quite some time. Its because were not willing to let them go until we can verify that they will be with a trusted sponsor. Mr. Tonko thank you, sir. And mr. Secretary, how is o. R. R. Evaluating its sponsorship guidelines in light of ren nation revelations of labor abuses happening postrelease . Secretary becerra congressman, as i said, my father was one of those kids. There was never any problem with him finding work even though he was not even a teenager. And there were occasions when he would not get paid for his, his labor. This is weve known about child labor for a long time. Its not just migrant kids, but certainly with migrant kids, we have an obligation to do everything we can and with every authority we have and even beyond that, were going to do everything we can to provide health and safety for those children even after weve lost custody and care of that child. Mr. Tonko mr. Secretary, i again appreciate you appearing before the subcommittee and i thank you for your responses. I yield back, mr. Chair. Mr. Griffith the gentleman yields back. I yield to the gentleman from kentucky. Im sorry the tone that our Ranking Member took on this. We all want to solve this problem. Nobody wants children to be mistreated. Now, we some we can think we should control the border first and not have them here. But once they are here, we have to absolutely take care of them. I know we share that, we absolutely share that. So just kind of following on what mr. Tonko was asking. You talked about nonrelated children. So there was a may, 2023, audit that that the office of Refugee Resettlement Inspector General found that 340 Migrant Children were released to non relative sponsors who are already caring for other Migrant Children. And so you talk about, you have to do the extra checks if theyre not related. And my understanding that o. R. R. Must conduct indepth home studies on sponsors who are sponsoring multiple unrelated children. How frequently is that . Secretary becerra we really dont usually do the home safe, but these are the unrelated have multiple and congressman, i want to point out if we get some kind of click back after a background check where theres something suspicious about the background. Even if the parent, we wont let the child go, even if its a parent until we can confirm that its ok. We may do the home study even in that situation. But with someone whos not related, we definitely do the home study. We go in, we do the interviews. We try to make sure we test the veracity of the person whos seeking to sponsor and with someone whos not related, we also do checks of the other adults in that house. Mr. Guthrie i know that system gets overwhelmed. But thats done every time . Secretary becerra for anyone thats not a related potentially related sponsor, yes. Mr. Guthrie its a rare exception. So getting back to the situation thats really concerning to all of us. I know were all concerned about it. In february of this year, the department of labor found 102 children working in overnight jobs and there was uh the caustic, the situation with caustic chemicals to clean razor sharp saws, you know, we know that. So how, so when that happens, how quickly do you respond . Does your office respond to that . Secretary becerra and this is the point about all the misunderstanding going on. You all in congress when i was in congress with you, we did. And as congressman burgess pointed out, this is for years, weve had to deal live with the existing authorities that we have. We cant go to an employer and say, hey, you cant employ this kid. Youre violating the law. We dont have the reach the authorities to go do that. What we can do is try to reach the child and the sponsor and say, how are things going . But as i said earlier, we dont have any ability or requirement to say to that child or sponsor or the employer get back to us and check in with us. And thats the difficulty here is our authorities are very limited. If you wish to give us further authorities, we will absolutely work with you towards that. Mr. Guthrie ok. So we need to debate that obviously and if thats appropriate we ought to absolutely do that. So getting back to that. So the department of labor does have that. I understand theres a division in the cabinets with you. So your colleague robin dun marcos, the director of oversight Refugee Resettlement stated in the House Oversight and Accountability Committee last month that youre work working to strength, you were working to strength the relationship with a department of labor and reducing. Could you just update us . Then i know that you dont have the authority department. Labor does, but theres also some, some synergies that you guys can create with because of the children. And so whats kind of, whats the status of that . Secretary becerra we have expanded the data sharing and thats sometimes difficult because all that information, especially for children is very private. So how we can share data, making sure that we dont violate anyones rights to the information helps because if they have sight of a sponsor that we, for example, have found is was trying to, trying to fraudulently get a child, they may say, hey, that name happens to come up when we do our search and that helps them do their work, vice versa. If they give us names of employers who are unscrupulous, if we see that all of a sudden one of those employers happens to be someone whos applying to be a sponsor, it helps us be more cautious. So were sharing data, we have a memorandum of agreement to work more formalized. We have been doing this for a while, but this means were trying to do it more strongly. Were goes going through training. Were training some of their folks at d. O. L. To understand how o. R. R. Does its work. And d. O. L. Is training some of our folks in o. R. R. And h. H. S. So we understand better how they do their work. Mr. Guthrie have you come across i know we dont hear about every case that this happens. Have you seen where that synergy has worked . Bip we were talking about hot spot where a lot of children are being exploited for labor and we may see a lot of migrant families. We can say, we got a report from d. O. L. That theres a lot of illegal hiring of kids in this community. Are we getting people who are trying to sponsor some of our community from that community. Mr. Guthrie thank you, my time has expired. I yield back. Mr. Griffith the gentleman yields back. Didnt see you slip in. Recognize dr. Ruiz for his five minutes of questioning. Mr. Ruiz thank you for being here. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Congress established the office of Refugee Resettlement in part because putting children in adult immigration detention is unconscionable. I think back to a few years ago when so many children were except in protracted immigration detention, often in literal cages, separated from their families. These conditions were so abhorrent that i introduced a bill, the humanitarian standardser standards for individuals in custom and Border Protection custody act that would establish minimum standards of care in these facilities an ensure the children had access to basic human necessities while they waited further processing. Unlike in immigration detention, in o. R. R. Care children are provided with housing, shelter, clothe, Educational Services and medical care. Republicans in this congress have proposed transferring some of the o. R. R. s responsibility to the department of Homeland Security. But that would threaten the well being of unaccompanied children. Instead, we need to focus on how o. R. R. Can best meet its obligation to provide high quality care for children including Case Management services by trained professionals that can provide culturally competent, traumainformed care to this vulnerable population. Last year the office of the inspector genre leased a report that documented concerning deficiencies in casing more training and skills and o. R. R. Has commendably made significant strides to address that. Secretary becerra, what changes is o. R. R. Making to impleuf Case Management standards, particularly to make sure casing mores are well train and have relevant skill tots care for unaccompanied children . Secretary becerra thank you for the question. Thats core of our work. Now that weve gotten into a rhythm and figured out how to best try make the process work were able to train to that. So that way we have a consistency, no child is treated differently when it comes to having the same opportunity to be placed with a reliable sponsor. So the training has improved. Were moving more toward, with Technology Toward a faster way of trying to secure identity information about sponsors. We are providing far better care than several years ago for these kids as you pointed out, we provide Educational Services, Mental Health services. Things that were not provided before we started this process. What we are doing is while they are in our care and its only for a short amount of time, they are at least being provided with the safety and well being they need before they go off. Mr. Ruiz and mind you, those are Services Department of Homeland Security do not provide. Secretary becerra thats correct. Mr. Ruiz last year we faced arrivals of unprecedented numbers of children. Even as arrivals slow, o. R. R. Has to be table adjust its housing and be able to take on the challenge when regular spikes in migration occur. What has o. R. R. Learned about dealing with the spikes in unaccompanied mie no, sir and providing care for high numbers of children when there are high numbers of children crossing the board her. Secretary becerra one thing we learned is you cant wait until you see kids coming in to try to find a safe bed, a place they can go. You have to be ready for them. So we are constantly making sure that we have the Services Available for any child who comes in. We also now work closely with department of Homeland Security to make sure no child is coming to us, for example, covid positive and then interspersed with kids who are not infect. So we segregate children so we can protect those who are not ill and so we have bases and beds that are specific for kids positive with covid or other Infectious Diseases or who need particular medical assistance. We have learned through the process and become far more efficient. That is the really important aspect. The process, efficiency process means the kids ultimately will be in a home where Child Welfare expert says they should be, not in a congress regatt care setting. And in response to the mr. Ruiz in response to the office of Inspector Generals concerns, o. R. R. Made use of the on rian port a they claimed the problems with the software could have led to children being released to unsafe sponsors. What changes have been made to the software . Secretary becerra the portal is the way to help us verify. We have kids in our care, we need to place them with a sponsor. How can we be assured well place them with a safe and secure sponsor . That portal helps us collect information so that ultimately when we make that release it will be good for the child. Mr. Ruiz thank you for your leadership, thank you for your concern and thank you for making these improvements. Mr. Griffith the gentleman yields back. Now recognize the chairwoman of the full committee, ms. Mcmorris rodgessers for five minutes. Mrs. Rodgers youre here today because the office of Inspector General and others have flagged on numerous occasions that your o. R. R. , office of Refugee Resettlement, has failed to properly care for and house children. O. R. R. Employers and contractors have, quote, a pervasive sense of despair among children at the facility about stress, anxiety and panic attacks. In other instances, children have been physically harmed due to negligence. The i. G. Report found that, quote, o. R. R. Eliminated critical safe gardz from the sponsor screening process. Thereby increasing childrens risk of release to unsafer sponsors. I wanted to ask, can you guarantee that no child youre responsible for keeping space is sent to a sponsor looking to exploit their labor . Can you guarantee that . Can you say yes or no that you can guarantee o. R. R. Doesnt place children in households with convicted sex offenders or child abusers . Secretary becerra i know youre a mom, im a dad, theres very few times we can say yes or no to anything about kids. We have thousands of children in our care. The challenges we face to make sure theyre properly placed is one we take very seriously we do everything we can to vet the sponsors. Mrs. Rodgers you only conducted child abuse and neglect background checks in 9 of the cases in 2021. Are you doing them in 100 of the cases today, yes or no . Secretary becerra we are doing the very thorough vetting process for any sponsor to make sure we understand who is asking the tun to care for children. Mrs. Rodgers are you doing 100 background chokes to ensure the children are not going into the households of convicted sex offenders or child abuser . Secretary becerra we do background checks on every potential sponsors, check for criminal records of every potential sponsors. Ms. Romgers f. B. I. Check . Secretary becerra we do background checks and the f. B. I. Does a lot of those for us. Mrs. Rodgers i look forward to seeing that. I do want to turn to the questions around reappointing the n. I. H. Officials, including dr. Fauci, after their terms expired in december of 2021. So on may 5, 2023, this is secretary mel lee eguren sent a letter saying the director appoints the director of n. I. H. With the director of m. I. H. Being the recommending official. Theyre recommended for appointment by the n. I. H. Director and afreuferred appointment by the secretary of health and Human Services. We then received letter last friday also from secretary eguren that contradicts that may 5 letter and asserts h. H. S. Believes the n. I. H. Can appoint director. Im hoping to ask a simple question, one we first asked in march of last year. Who appoints who reappoints who reapointed the directors when their terms expired in 2021. Yes or no, are you claiming that thenn. I. H. Director Francis Collins signed the paperwork . Secretary becerra we have said to you whether in letter or orally, the appointments we have made are valid we stand by those appointments. If you read the sta constitute its statute its clear the director shall be appointed by the secretary. Mrs. Rodgers is there a form in n. I. H or h. H. S. With director collins signature reappointing dr. Fauci and others . And if so why have you not provided it to us . Secretary becerra madam chair theres ample evidence of the process that we used. It is valid under law. The appointments we have made, we stand by them. Mrs. Rodgers is there a form . Is there a letter . Can you provide us any documentation that dr. Collins reappointed these directors . Secretary becerra we have already provided you with a lot of information im more than willing to have my team follow up with you. Mrs. Rodgers i havent seen it yet. On june, 2023, june 15, 2023, you signed affidavits ratifying the selections and appointing n. I. H. Directors. Was that the first time you signed a document relating to the appointment, yes or no. Secretary becerra the evidence is before you. Mrs. Rodgers what evidence . Secretary becerra the process that weve appointed weve answered these questions in writing. Mrs. Rodgers i have yet to see the documents. Do you agree n. I. H. Institute directors qualify as infearor officers of the u. S. Secretary becerra madam chair, we can go into the questions of how to interpret a particular word here or there, what im saying is the appointment and rea appointment of our personnel at n. I. H. , our directors was done validly. Mrs. Rodgers youre and tern, you have hundreds of lawyers. Does the h. H. S. Officials believe, under the constitution, that the n. I. H. I. C. Directors are inferior officers or not . Thats the question id like to have answered. Secretary becerra we believe the process used to appoint them are valid. Mrs. Rodgers are they inferior officers. Secretary becerra i can get back to you and have that conversation in more detail later. They are working properly because they were validly appoint and reappointed. Mrs. Rodgers send the documentation. Id like to ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the New York Times article, in one block, validity of 46 judges. Its about 46 patent judges appointed by the patent and Trademark Office and how the department of justice has all but admitted the appointments were improper. The situation is similar to this one they have article makes clear, wellestablished, inferior officers must be appointed by the president or secretary of the agency. Unanimous consent to enter this into the record. Mr. Griffith that will be taken up at the end they have hearing when we entertain other requests. I recognize ms. Degette. Sorry, i did it again. Mr. Pallone has come back. He is in order to ask his questions. Mr. Pallone, five minutes. Mr. Pallone thank you, mr. Chairman. Earlier this year the norg time made the case that hh. S. Could not reach 85,000 children after they were released from o. R. R. Care. Weve seen it suggested that these children have gone missing. I think thats a mischaracterization of the fact. Mr. Secretary id like you to clarify the claim that o. R. R. Allowed the kids to go missing is inaccurate and doesnt reflect how o. R. R. Checks up on children postrelease. Secretary becerra thank you for asking the question. This is where i believe weve seen the greatest amount of misunderstanding, so perhaps or perhaps better put, misinformation about the work we do. As i repeated over and over we lose cus toad call care and responsibility tissue custodial custodial care and responsibility when we release them to the vetted sponsor. That mierns authority to monitor, follow up, are only what the child and the sponsor want to engage with us in. And so it becomes more difficult. The references in the New York Times article are to voluntary policy that we make, three times we try to reach each child. Three times separately we try to reach each sponsor. Check in to find out how the child is doing in the transition. Theres no requirement for the sponsor or the child to answer the call. There could be any number of reasons why the children and sponsors may not answer the call. But that doesnt mean the children are lost. And suggesting that any kind of numbers that relate to those calls show that we lost kids is categorically false. Mr. Pallone i appreciate that. I think you said o. R. R. Was able to reach the child or the sponsor in more than 81 of the households. Secretary becerra and thats again, theyre not required to were out there trying to get to them but theyre not required to get back to us. Nor are the sponsors. Mr. Pallone i appreciate that. I was also pleased to see o. R. R. Entered into an agreement with the department of labor so information about active department of labor investigations can be used to improve the sponsorship process. Can you explain, how has o. R. R. Integrated information from the department into its sponsor screening process and how does it better equip o. R. R. To getter prevent traffic . Secretary becerra the easiest example to understand is the hot spot if d. O. L. Is finding that there are certain hot spots in the country where child labor exploitation is occurring, if they flag that for us that in h this region, this town this city, of america, more lot of employers who are uncroup lousily hiring children and forcing them to do work, we can take that information and take more care when applies to be a sponsor who is coming from that region. We have we are able now with the more formalized memorandum of agreement with the department of labor to actually seek actual data, not just the hot spot information but particular data, which helps us big deeper, go more granular, to try to find out if this potential sponsor is someone to avoid. Mr. Pallone thank you. Finally, i was afeuld see that even as House Republicans expressed their outrage as the exploitation of unaccompanied minors post release, republicans on the appropriations subcommittee overseeing hh. S. Funding recently voted in favor of a measure that would slash o. R. Reform fund big 60 . And this kind of cut would have devastating impacts on o. R. R. s ability to identify labor abuses. I think you may have already commented on this but if you want to say anything more about the impact of a 60 to o. R. R. s funding on in terms of the offices ability to address Child Exploitation and provide care to unaccompanied mie no, sir. Secretary becerra its your kids, your child or my child, kids deserve our support and care. It would be impossible to do that if the cuts that are being proposed in the house Appropriations Committee were to go through. It would decimate our budget. It would make it tough for us to provide care while theyre in our custody. I cant tell you what it would do to our efforts to try to reach out to children where we actually rely on Congress Giving us extra money so we can first do our core activity of caring for the child while theyre with us but then when we try to go and do more, once we release them to a sponsor, i dont see how wed be able to do any of those things. Mr. Pallone i appreciate your work in tackling these violations of childrens rights and why its so important that congress provide o. R. R. With the tools it needs including the funding to support this vulnerable population. Thank you. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Mr. Griffith i thank the gentleman for yielding back. Now recognize the gentleman from south carolina, mr. Duncan, for five moifns questioning. Mr. Duncan thank you. You clearly care about children have you seen the sound of freedom . Secretary becerra is that the new movie . I have not. Mr. Duncan i recommend that you see that. Globally too many children disappear every year, never to be seen again, sold into sex trafficking or slavery. Secretary becerra i was former attorney general in my state of california, i investigated, i apprehended, i arrested and prosecuted. Mr. Duncan i appreciate that work. I knew that. I know your heart. The movie is phenomenal. I met with d. H. S. Guy in columbia in 2014 with ed royce. The atrocities against unaccompanied children should come as no surprise considering who this administration, u. S. Department of health and Human Services is hiring to care for them. Are you aware h. H. S. Recently awarded a 75 billion contract for a forprofit company that has zero child Care Experience . Secretary becerra congressman, tuck give me the details. Im not familiar with that. Mr. Duncan j j worldwide, a private Equity Company that got its start in custodial services and facility management. What qualifications does a custodial care have to provided medical and Mental Health care to children who have been through extraordinary trauma . Secretary becerra anyone who seeks to contract with h. H. S. To provide services to unaccompanied children has to go through a rigorous formal process thats been established for a long time. Mr. Duncan do they . The soto company what expertise do they have in vetting safe placement for children . Secretary becerra i can tell you we do not contract with anyone who cannot provide the service. Mr. Duncan 75 billion is close to what we gave ukraine. Would you hand your children over to one of these companies with no experience in child care . Im not going to ask you to answer that. They give 3. 48 billion to another company with no experience in caring for children for this care. Rapid deployment specializes in Wastewater Treatment, Security Operations in iraq and afghanistan. They were hired to operate a site which has been widely reported as having deplorable conditions. There have been reports of child abuse. And servpro a flood care company, have been hired to care for children. Secretary becerra all the entities and contractors we work with have to show they can do the work necessary to stand up fa ill silty, operate the facilities and today i can tell you that we are offering more services to children than had ever been offered before because were able to now work with people who understand what they knead to do. Mr. Duncan great Wastewater Treatment sounds like what it is. I would ask the o. I. G. To investigate these contracts. 75 billion is a huge contract. Its not obviously to you that forprofit companies are bidding on these programs because they can be paid hundreds of millions of dollars, in some cases billions of dollars, for work they are not qualified for, face no repercussions for doing a terrible job are. You not concerned with the precedent your department is setting that you can harm children without consequence . Secretary becerra as i said, we go through an established process for anyone who wishes to work with the federal government and especially if youre going to work in an area that has migrant or minor children. And so the work that we do is very challenging. And its very important to do it right. And so the contractors that we employ, whether to stand up a facility or operate it, go through a significant vetting process. Mr. Duncan im going to send a letter, ill talk to the chairman, try to get o. I. G. To investigate these contracts. I would ask you to look into that. Im asking you today, after you look into it, get back with me and my office about the services these companies provide, if theres any irregular lair tirks any cause for alarm. Because we both have heart for the children. Ill make sure theyre taken care of. Im also concerned about children released in the country, as the chairman mentioned earlier, about tieing in that familiar relationship because im worried about where these children end up. Even in this country. When ef sex traffic, every major sporting event, prostitution, im sure children in sex slave trade here in this country. Im going to make sure that children who are sent here by their parents from triangle countries or latin american countries that make their way north, tens of thousands of dollars paid by those parents to send them north and the children are entering the sex or the slave trade. I look forward to your response on that. I yield back. Mr. Griffith the gentleman yields back. I yield to mr. Peters of california for his questions. Its greta youre here. In your testimony you note that the various challenges o. R. R. Faces in providing care for children requires a whole of government approach. I know o. R. R. Works with state governments including our home state of california. To resettle refugees and provide them with services. I want to make sure the coordination remains helpful and productive. Tell us how o. R. R. Is working to improve cooperation with state and local governments particularly with respect to connecting children with postrelease services. Secretary becerra congressman, thank you for the question. I want to salute folks in our state of california for their cooperation at the local level to work with us. When we had to stand up under difficult and emergent circumstances, facilities to be able to provide shelters and beds for children we were able to work with the city of long beach, the county of los angeles, with the city of san diego, to stand up facilities. We had no choice but to use Convention Centers. We turned Convention Centers into a flairs children to sleep, eat, get their care. All those things were done with the strong cooperation of the local leadership in those cities and counties. Thats what we continue to do with once we have released a child to a vetted sponsor, where we can, we try to do postrelease services. Sometimes we coordinate and work closely with local Government Services that are there. We do everything we can to make sure were working closely with our partners at the city, county and state level. Mr. Peters i know the mayor appreciated the work of the federal government in that instance and its great we were able to come together and use that area that was not being used for conventions. I guess all states are not working as productively with o. R. R. Some states are refusing to license o. R. R. Facilities in their state. When they refuse to cooperate how are children hurt . What is o. R. R. Doing to support children in states where you dont maybe have the same kind of partnership . Secretary becerra we have had a cup of circumstances where a couple of states actually tried to delicense facilities that we used to provide care. We seek facilities that will care for cheese children these children while we have them in our custody, that are licensed, that have gone through the process to receive a state license to offer care to children. We dont just care for these kids in a facility without people whr trained. Licensed care facilities we use where we can. And i believe believe it or not there are some states that are trying to prevent us from actually providing care for these unaccompanied children through licensed facilities. Its obviously it obviously harms the children if we cant fry trie to protect them by having people who have gone through licensing process. Weve decided if theyre going to shirk their responsibility well do what youd expect, which is make sure we abide by those standards that would be required of any facile day ty that did get a license. Mr. Peters children can arrive with complicated preexisting conditions, some of which may be fatal has unfortunately been the case a few times this year. What do you do to ensure that all children in o. R. R. s care have access to high quality medical care . This is something you talked about a little bit in terms of your ability to follow up under current law. Secretary becerra thats where the licensed care facilities are so important they dont get a license unless they can provide that level of service and in some cases health care and medical services. We make sure that children receive the services youd expect for any child. As i keep say, kids are kids. Were going to treat them like your kid, my kid, anyones kids. Children should not have to go through the trauma of being mistreated simply because people dont know who they are. We will provide whatever health care is available both to our facility and sometimes as you mentioned we actually send them to medical facilities in the surrounding areas. Oftentimes we have had kids come with preexisting medical conditions and we have had circumstances where we have had children who are terminally ill come to our care. Mr. Peters mr. Chairman, or mre clock here, im running out of time. I want to say i think everyone here understands that o. R. R. Has a heavy responsibility to these children. I want to thank you for exercising the leverage of partnerships with states, localities, local organizations to make sure we do take as good care of these children as we can. Thank you for your hard work. If we can be helpful, let us the. Secretary becerra thank you to you when we were in san diego. Mr. Griffith the gentleman yields back. Now recognize the gentleman from alabama, mr. Palmer, for five minutes mr. Palmer secretary becerra, i have some concerns about your testimony based on testimony you gave in another hearing. Held april 27, 2022, before the energy and Commerce Health subcommittee. In that hearing i asked you about the a final rule that included a provision that will provide financial incentive for doctors to create and implement an antiracism plan. Secretary becerra im having a difficult time hearing you. Mr. Palmer i asked you about a provision and final rule to provide incentives for doctors to create an antiracism plan. Your response was, we dont have a policy as you described. Testimonies before you underlie underlined and highlights. You went on to say this and youve used these words multiple times in this hearing. Much of this is powered by myths and disinformation. You said, i would challenge you to show we where show me where we call anything antiracism policies. Then chairman jason smith asked you the same question and you responded and in my opinion rather dismissively that no such plan existed and you said, i think its unfortunate that too much misinformation and disinformation is put out there on whats being done. Thats what confuses americans. Chairman smith and i submitted a letter to you pointing this out. And we pointed out that you said that h. H. S. Does not have a policy as he you i think you were preferring to me described. And much of this is tbield misinformation and disinformation. One day later you gave the same response to smiths questions. You responded to chairman smiths letter, you did not respond to me. At the bottom of that page, create and implement an antiracism plan improvement activity, iaahe which was adopt through the notice and comment. Ive also provided the cover page for the rule that was dated november 19, 2021, more than five months, right at five months before that hearing before the energy and Commerce Committee and ive provided you with the section under the proposed activity title. Would you read that . Secretary becerra youd like me to read what . Mr. Palmer the future years, its clipped together there it should be about second group of documents there. Ill read it for you. The proposed activity titles create and implement an antiracism plan and proposed activity description it says and understanding of race as a political and social construct not as a physiological one. And then the final action after consideration of Public Comments were finalized this activity as proposed. Thats problematic for me because i was very deferential to you in that hearing and you commented on that. In the transcript. And i expected an honest answer. Im not saying you didnt give an honest answer because if you answered truthfully that means you did not know what was going on in your own agency so what i want to know today, mr. Secretary, is did you answer honestly or were you uninformed five months after this rule was submitted . Secretary becerra let me thank you for the way you posed the question. I dwairn tee when i anned you questions i answered them honestly to the best of my knowledge. If quur providing me with information that shows inconsistency in what i may have said ill take a look and get back to you. But first and foremost i owe you that because of the way you respectfully asked the question. Ill try respectfully respond back to your questions. Mr. Palmer youve served in congress. Youve served as an attorney general. And i take this very seriously. And what prompted this is the constant reference to disinformation and misinformation. Were very concerned about the well being of these children. And we have evidence that things arent as well as maybe you think they are. And i want to get to the bottom of this. I also want to make sure that when any member of any administration, republican or democrat, comes before congress, takes an oath to give truthful testimony, that thats exactly what we get. Now, mr. Speaker, im going to enter this into the record. Well follow up on this later. I respect you and your willingness to respond back to us. And clarify the record. With that, mr. Chairman, i yield back. I would like to enter these document into the record. Mr. Griffith well take that up at the end of ehearing. I assume you provided that to our staff so they can provide it to the democrats as well. The gentleman yields back. Now recognize the gentlelady from colorado, ms. Degette. Ms. Degette thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, great seeing you, thank you for coming over today. Ive been working on these o. R. R. Issues for a long time as you know. Frankly your agency and the Biden Administration in general inherited a terrible Immigration Crisis and particularly kids that came across the border under the trump policies of separation of families. Really are i want to talk about that in a minute with you. But they have been devastating. Your agency has been forced to sort of try to put it all back together on a real time basis. So i just want to ask a couple of questions. The first thing that happens, unaccompanied minor comes across the border and immediately theyre placed in o. R. R. s care. After they within 72 hours, i think. Secretary becerra they actually go into care at c. B. P. And then they process them. Ms. Degette and they put them into your care. Secretary becerra they are required to try to do that within 72 hours. Ms. Degette and the next thing that happens is the agency attempts to find relatives or other people in which to put the kids is that right . Bip thats correct. Ms. Degette that happens with most of these kids, correct . I mean you dont find relatives of all the kids . Secretary becerra the vast majority we do, but not all. Ms. Degette and then you have a process. Most of the kids are placed quickly but not all of. The ones that are this is where so for the small percentage where you dont immediately find somebody this is where you take them into custody, the them into certified facilities and try to find an appropriate place to put these kids, is that right . Secretary becerra thats correct. Other and over we are looking for sponsors. Ms. Degette the kids are placed, then there are voluntary followup calls that are made to families. Secretary becerra thats correct. Ms. Degette but under law the families are not required to secretary becerra unfortunately , thats correct. Ms. Degette so when youre rooking for placements, this is where you were telling my colleagues you do the background checks, you check out the homes you do the Home Inspections where necessary is that right . Secretary becerra thats correct. Ms. Degette and by the way you done have the ability, legally, to take these kids back into custody if theres some kind of problem, is that right . Secretary becerra thats correct. Ms. Degette so all of this process is kansasly. It takes a lot of money, doesnt it . Secretary becerra absolutely. Ms. Degette if we were to cut o. R. R. We are all concerned about these kids. I do believe my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, theyre parents too, we do care about the kids. But you cant do something with nothing. So if you cut the budget of o. R. R. By 60 , i would say it would be kind of hard to do all of those procedures you just delineated for me. Would that be right . Secretary becerra not just hard, impossible. Ms. Degette you couldnt do the background checks, couldnt run the certified centers, couldnt do the Home Inspections, couldnt do any of that for anybody. Secretary becerra it one near impossible. Ms. Degette you dont have to answer that but it seems to me, if everybody was so concerned about these children theyd inincrease your budget so you could do a more thorough investigation and have better care for the kids and really serve them right. The doorkeeper children are children we owe them care. Ms. Degette i want to get a quick report. Im running out of time. In may of this year, we still had 868 kids from the Previous Trump Administration separation of families that we had not found their loved ones. Hadnt been reunion fid. Its getting harder and harder as time goes by because many of those parents have gone back to their home countries. Do you have a status report for secretary becerra congresswoman , we can follow up with you. Most of that activity is handled by the department of Homeland Security but we work with them when they are minor children. Ms. Degette if you could get back to me that would be great. I want to know how many of those kids we have found their families and what we are cant to continuing to do about the rest of them. I was the chair of the subcommittee then and we had a lot of hearings on it, it was heart breaking to see what the Trump Administration did to those families. Thank you and i yield back. Secretary becerra thank you. Mr. Griffith the gentlelady yields back. Now recognize the vice chair of the subcommittee, ms. Lesko of arizona. Ms. Lesko thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Secretary. Secretary becerra, i have requirements here needed to become a Foster Parent for dogs and cats through city dogs and city kitties rescue in d. C. All the people who want to take a dog or cat into their home need to fill out an application, interviewed by the rescue shelter, and their home is inspected. Mr. Becerra does o. R. R. Inspect the homes of 100 of the prospective u. C. Sponsors . Secretary becerra congresswoman thank you for the question. Mrs. Lesko yes or no. 100 , do you inspect the homes. Secretary becerra we do a for roe thorough vetting process. Mrs. Lesko yes or no. Do you inspect the homes of up accompany children proposed sponsors. Secretary becerra we often do home studies. Mrs. Lesko i guess thats a no. I apsalm you dont since you didnt answer yes or no. Why is it that dogs and cats that are being foster patiented in d. C. Homes get a more thorough vetting and homes are inspected and not the sponsors of unaccompanied children being 3u into homes . Secretary becerra congresswoman we do a thorough vetting process. Mrs. Lesko do you inspect all homes . Secretary becerra we do a thorough vetting prosays. Mrs. Lesko in arizona an individual seeking to become a foster adoptive parent and all adults living in that same household must pass and f. B. I. And local criminal background check and have a level one fingerprint clearance card issued by the department of public safety. What percentage of sponsors have completed f. B. I. Background checks . Secretary becerra every person who wishes to become a sponsor goes through background checks before they can participate. Mrs. Lesko what percentage have passed f. B. I. Background checks . Secretary becerra there are any number of background checks that they go through. Mrs. Lesko youre not answering. What percentage of spon vors undergone sexual offenders reg trichecks . Secretary becerra we do that on nip who wishes to be a sponsor. Mrs. Lesko 100 . Secretary becerra thats one of the quheks do. Mrs. Lesko 100 on all the sponsors. Secretary becerra anyone who wishes to be a sponsor has to go through the background checks. Mrs. Lesko so 100 . Its your testimony that 100 of the proposed prospective smonnea background check on the f. B. I. Background check, the sexual offender registry checks . Secretary becerra ive answered the question but ill say it once again. Mrs. Lesko you have not answered the question sir. Secretary becerra i have appsed your question but i will say it again. Every person who wishes to become a sponsor must go through background checks. It could include fingerprint, it could include voluntary d. N. A. Test, but it certainly includes things like a sexual offender check. Mrs. Lesko it includes it but you have not answered if 100 of the sponsors are required to pass and f. B. I. Background check and a sexual abuse and child abuse neglect registry check. Secretary becerra my written testimony lists all the things we do to go through the crediting process. If you would like to follow up with further detail. Mrs. Lesko id like you to answer the question. If 100 of the sponsors have to pass and f. B. I. Background check. Secretary becerra as i have said mrs. Lesko just say yes or no secretary becerra we make sure that every person who wishes to apply to be a sponsor must go through a rigorous set of tests including a background check. Mrs. Lesko you havent said if they have to do and f. B. I. Background check. You havent said if 100 of them have to do a sexual abuse or child abuse and neglect registry check. As is required in arizona for Foster Parents. I mean so why is it that o. R. R. Has different standards for checking than arizona does for vetting Foster Parents . Is it because they are unaccompanied children . Theyre Illegal Immigrants . What are the reason . Secretary becerra that is an excellent question. Because youre equating the program we have with a Foster Care Program and thats the crux of the problem. We dent have the same authority that a Foster Care Program has in your state. We cannot track these kids the way you might want to track them. Mrs. Lesko i didnt say about tracking the kids. Im talking about vetting the sponsors. Secretary becerra its the same process. Mrs. Lesko you do have the authority. Secretary becerra the adult has to go through the process. Mrs. Lesko if you are vetting these sponsors so great how come according to the florida grand jury documents, one family in austin, texas, had more than 100 children sent to it by o. R. R. . Another texas address had 44 children. A third had 25. In pennsylvania one caseworker told the times we went to check on a child release to a man who applied to sponsor 20 other minors. I do not think you are doing an adequate job. With that, i yield back. Mr. Griffith the gentlelady yields back. Now recognize ms. Schakowsky of illinois for her five minutes of questions. Ms. Schakowsky thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you so much, secretary, for being here today and im just amazed at the attack that youre experiencing from the republicans right now who actually, you know, were talking about protecting these imMigrant Children. And yet republicans want to cut funding for the office of Refugee Resettlement. By 3. 3 billion, nearly a 60 cut. So at the same time they want to harang you about what youre doing, what youre not doing, and yet proposing an incredible cut. Im appalled even in light of these horrendous allegations, corporations that are exploiting these unaccompanied children. I dont see where republicans are doing any favors to these children we talk about such an enormous cut. So i want to ask you, what are the implications of these cuts in funding for o. R. R. And what is this actually going to do to the children that they are saying, indeed the anymore of the hearing is, staffing exploitation of Migrant Children. And i just dont see how it happens when you have a big cut like that. But you tell me. Secretary becerra theres no way we could sustain that level of cut. The care will be of children, cant do it on the cheap. You have to provide them with appropriate services. You would certainly have to let go of services that are not required by law. Such as our most of our followup care we try to provide after we have released the child to a vetted sponsor. So those followup call, the efforts to try to reach out to people, that would be near impbl to do with the level of cuts that the house is proposing. But i think that those cuts would also undermine our ability to provide care while the kids are in our custody. Theres in way we could sustain that level of cuts. Ms. Schakowsky let me just say we have been dealing with this issue, you have been dealing with this issue, for a long time. If we are going to be able to move forward and actually addressing this ongoing problem which in many ways has been created, some of us helped and some of us our very congress has exacerbated but certainly cuts, i just dont understand. Unfortunately i was at a another hearing as the Ranking Member of that subcommittee, i couldnt be here. But i dont understand the rationale. When were talking about trying to protect these children. And saying, well, the way that we want to do it is to have a nearly 60 cut in the funding that were going to do this. Not having been here, im wondering if theres anything else you wanted to add in the last minute or so that i have to set the record straight . Secretary becerra first, thank you very much for that opportunity. I think you said it well. We have over the last two years been able to stabilize a very challenging process of caring for kids who oftentimes, as you know are coming with trauma. The experience is harrow, oftentimes. Many of these kids have come facing abuse. And trying to provide them with care while theyre waiting to go through their immigration proceedings is not easy. And its not cheap. There is no way that we could do the job that everyone here says they expect if we are decimated in our funding for that program. And its for kids. That is a program thats for kids. And so i hope people understand. An if they wish us to do more work, even after we have placed them with a vetted sponsor, then i would urge them to issue legislation, introduce legislation that changes the authorities because we dont have authorities that help us tray to deal with some of the things that people are accusing o. R. R. Of not doing. We make an effort. On our own. Voluntarily. To reach out to children. Even though they are not required to respond back. It would be helpful if we had the right resources and the right authorities so we can all feel more comfortable about how unaccompanied chirp are treated. I hope just the way were doing the hearing about h. H. S. And o. R. R. s work with unaccompanied kids that the chairman will issue an order to have a hearing with those employers who have exploited children to come and testify here to you and explain why they are breaking the law and make kids do dangerous work. Ms. Schakowsky thank you. I appreciate that. I yield back. Thank you. I call on representative crenshaw for five minutes of questions. Thank you, madam chair. Mr. Crenshaw thank you, madam chair. You have an impossible job. Maybe it would be helpful for think colleagues on the other side of the aisle who complain about the prior administration, if they realized that. What makes it even more impossible is when there are a lot more unaccompany mied nors coming over the porder. Were looking at fiscal years 2020 versus 2021 theres an eightfold increase in unaccompanied minors coming across the border. From 15,000 to 122,000. That wasnt some random occurrence because of covid. That number has remained, actually increased in f. Y. 2022, 128,000 in f. Y. 2023 it is on track to be another 130,000. Wouldnt you rather live in a world where o. R. R. Is not required, a giant orphanage for children coming across the board her it would be better for it didnt have to exist, it one better if it didnt, right . Secretary becerra congressman, we face the prospect of having to provide the care and were going to do what we can. Mr. Venn kren shaw but wouldnt you rather live in a world where you didnt have to do that . Is it better or worse for children to go across an interthacial border unaccompanied. Secretary becerra of course its worse. Mr. Crenshaw of course its worse. So we have an eightfold increase not only make yours job ever more impossible than it already was, its a humanitarian crisis. I cant imagine what changed between the years 2020 and 2021. Anybody have any there was an election. A lot of policy changes. That created a magnet for unaccompanied minors to come across. All these problems were talking about, sponsorships and intakes and trying to vet sponsors and child labor and sex trafficking, they become exponentially worse because theres an eightfold increase in the number of kids coming across. How about that . You guys are just trying to deal with it. I get that. Not going to vilify you the way my democrat colleagues vilified your predecessors in the last administration. I do have some specific questions. Just to help the kids through this about your policies. I was looking for some policy guidance on what to do when they go missing, it was actually much easier to find your lgbt guidance this concerned me a little bit. Maybe a lot a bit. Were making when making housing provisions for youth, you must consider the identity of the. Theres a 17yearold boy and i know you guys separate them by gender normally right . I hope so theres a 17yearold boy tells you all hes a girl. Does he automattedly get placed into the girls, womens facilities . Is that how that process works . Secretary becerra congressman thanks for the question. At h. H. S. We have a legal obligation, moral obligation as well to safely and humanely li care for all the the mr. Crenshaw im acting in good faith with you. Im hoping thats not how the process works. 72 of the people who come across are 15 and older. You can barely describe them as children. Secretary becerra we are make sure we provide all the children in our care with the human rights protections and freedom from discrimination and abuse theyre entitled to. Mr. Crenshaw so that is how it works. It should not work that way. Thats at least one member of congress telling you it should not work that way. It puts girls in danger. I want to move on. There was something you said in your testimony that the sponsors are not required to answer your calls when you cothe followup. Whose rule is that . Is that h. H. S. s rule . Is that statute . Why cant we make them answer the phone . If they dont, why cant you send Child Protective Services after them . Secretary becerra thank you for that question. We dent have the authority to require them to spon respond to us. Mr. Crenshaw why not . So that needs to be a statute. Thats a statute change that needs to happen . Ok. Thats helpful. Gang affiliations im out of time. Actually, could you respond did you respond to my colleagues previous question, how do the cases happen, an option where one sponsor could request like 20 different kids, time and time again. This one has 44 children. Please explain how that happens . And i yield back. Secretary becerra im not familiar with that circumstance but every sponsor has to go through a thorough vetting process and anyone who has a flag of having tried to sponsor 43 previous kids would certainly be flagd. Mr. Crenshaw i would hope so i yield back, im out of time. Mr. Griffith the gentleman yields back. Now recognize the gentleman all right. Sorry. Recognize the mr. Armstrong for his five minutes of questions. Mr. Armstrong we have different committee, pretty much any Border Patrol agent weve heard is cartels are in operational control of the entire northern third of mexico. This congress we received testimony in the Oversight Committee from Border Patrol that every person who reaches the southern border at this point has had to deal with cartels at some point in time. Has had to deal with cartels at some point in time. You dont have any reason to disagree with that did you . Secretary becerra i wouldnt have the details but the department of Homeland Security could give you a better answer to that. Mr. Armstrong this isnt a gotcha question but its one of the problems we run into. You said we do everything we can to ensure that these unaccompanied minors are not subjected to child labor even after we lose care, custky and control. The problem is whether its statutory and theres been a lot of talk about it, everything you can is not much. Secretary becerra thats correct. Mr. Armstrong what you do have control over is the intake. When they get into your custody. If you have 128,000 which mr. Crenshaw was just talking about, up from 15,000 and we know that at the very least the vast majority of those ump acop unaccompanied minors getting to the boarder have to deal with the cartels on their way to get there. 70plus percent are over the age of 15. What is your intake process . This is a highrisk grandpa of people, the cartels are not doing this out of the goodness of their heart. If a 16yearold boy, 16yearold girl, getting to the border, they have family wherever it is. El salvador, mexico, somewhere else. There is some semblance of an arrangement in which the cartels get there. Thats before we talk about sex abuse, physical abuse, all the other horrors that exist when they get there. So if we dont you lose operational control after you place them, through all the vetting which theres been a lot of talk of, what is your intake process for high risk kids that do not want to tell you the truth. They are terrified of what will happen to them or their families if they do engage you in a meaningful conversation. Secretary becerra thank you for the question. You pointed out some of the real challenges that we face. Im going to leave the questions about background of the children to the department of Homeland Security because they do that initial assessment of the child when they encounter the child. Mr. Armstrong and thats ok but its actually not ok but if thats the policy that should change. Because you have them for very specific period of time. You have them in custody. And we know, we can talk to anybody who has been on the southern border, that the vast majority of those children that are coming to the border, if and not all 17yearolds are created equally if you grew up on the streets of el sal var dor, at 17 years old youve had a hard life already. I dont want to talk about that part of it. I want to talk about we have a finite amount of time to deal with whatever metrics that are going on in their life that got them to that border. And so whatever the background is before, what do you do for an intake . How do you do a Sexual Assault intake . Sec. Becerra we do a pretty thorough assessment on intake as well. But what i wanted to do is distinguish between an intake that deals with security, any issues of criminal background, versus ours which is more on the health mr. Armstrong im worried about the health and welfare of the kids you get. Well deal with the other stuff later. Because that exists in a real meaningful way. We know there are kids that are getting tattoos once they get to mexico or once they get to the United States and before we get there. Thats a whole different issue. But im talking about this intake because from all of your testimony today, you have very limited abilities to deal with any of this after they leave your facility. So what are we doing when theyre there . Sec. Becerra so the assessments that were doing are on their status, their health status, on their situation in terms of who could care for them, because we only hold them temporarily. And so our assessments, unlike a d. H. S. Assessment, are for purposes of understanding the status, the wellbeing of the children. So we do intake, we do clinical assessments, we do case reviews. We do an assessment of any child. We use professionals in Child Welfare to understand who is coming into our door and who were caring for. Then we continue the process during the Case Management to figure out if that child can be placed. Mr. Armstrong im going to ask a very specific question because i have 2 it seconds left 22 seconds left. What is the difference in numbers of kids that you identify as being trafficked in some way . Either for labor, Sexual Assault, physical assault, anything that has gone up . Because the other things that gone up with that number is the number of those kids who have to deal with the cartels in order to get into your facility. Sec. Becerra so, again, department of Homeland Security would be doing that initial check to find out if this is a child who is coming in with a trafficking background. We also, if we make an assessment and find that the child may have experienced trafficking, we also then do an assessment and we provide actually Additional Services by law, by the way, thats in the statute, that we provide Additional Service for any child that we get into our care who we get information that they may have been trafficked in advance. So mr. Armstrong but a 16yearold girl who has been threatened with her parents getting killed if they talk to you and then you have them for a finite period of time and kick them out and for whatever reason i mean, we know this is happening. What are the increased numbers in trafficked kids compared to numbers . Sec. Becerra i dont have the specific numbers. I can try to make sure my team gets back to you. Mr. Armstrong we would like to know. I yield back. Mr. Griffith now recognize the gentlewoman from florida for five minutes of questioning. Mrs. Cammack do you see this jar . Do you know what this is . Sec. Becerra looks like candies or snack. Mrs. Cammack these are wrist bands that the cartels force people to wear when they cross the border. If youre not wearing one and you cross the board, the cartels will take a limb or appendage. It dictate what is cartel they belong to, how much they have paid, and they are absolutely a part of the horrors of trafficking and smuggling that occurs at our southwest border. And i have to point this out because i want to tell the journey. This has been laid out by my colleagues and were here talk to about these kids. So if you could turn your attention to the screen real fast. I want to show a quick photo. That i took. It was 11 46 at night. I took that photo. That little girl that you see was acting terrified. Not of agent, not of myself, but of the man holding her. The very next day at the processing facility, we threatened, and i was there to witness this, this man was a with a d. N. A. Test. He confessed that he was not her father. That he had rented her. This is a process called recycling. Now, i know were here to talk about what happened to these kids after this point. But this girl was turned over to h. H. S. Custody, your custody. Youve talked at length today about the vetting process, right . And so you now know that this little girl, not through a d. N. A. Test, she is not related to that man, shes now in your custody. You have your own case managers who are supposed to vet these processes. And we of course know this from the florida grand jury, these case managers have very little training or no training in interviewing these individuals, particularly children and young children, who have been traumatized. You can imagine this man, who you just saw on the screen, who by the way was a convicted sex offender with this child, you can imagine the trauma that that child had sustained. Your own case managers are not trained in examining, evaluating or recognizing documents as authentic or fake. She came with no documents. They have no official training when it comes to trauma informed interviewing schools. No official training when it comes to investigating the safety or legitimacy of addresses to which a u. A. C. May be sent. Now, i dont know what happened to that little girl. But what i do know is that the sponsors that you claim to thoroughly vet which i would love to get your definition of thorough, because you havent been able to articulate that here today, it also would include the fact that these kids show up with numbers pinned to their clothes or sharpied on their bodies to call. Agents have reported in official testimony that these kids have the numbers, the same phone number sharpied on their arms time and time again. Now, weve heard, of course, of situations where the same sponsor is being called. And magically 20, 30, 40 kids end up with that sponsor. And again, i go back to your statement of, we thoroughly vet. You really emphasized that. Do you vet every member of the household . And does it include an f. B. I. Check . Does it include an interpol check . I would hope that it would, considering that weve had 151 different nationalities cross the southwest border under the Biden Administration. But im guessing that it doesnt. Because only 9 of the u. A. C. s are subjected to a d. N. A. Test with their sponsor, less than 23 to a background check. And again, i should point out for the record the fact that you released these folks, these kids, to sponsors that are in the country illegally. By definition, they have already broken the law. Is it the standard operating policy to release children into the hands of sponsors in households that havent been properly vetted and that are here in the country illegally . Sec. Becerra i think i heard a question there so ill try to respond because you packed a lot in there. A lot which i think has a lot of misinformation and that i disagree with. I could first start by saying that we do go through a thorough process on saysment of the child when the child first comes to our attention. Mrs. Cammack was your definition of thorough . Sec. Becerra i mentioned it in a previous mrs. Cammack does it include a d. N. A. Test . Sec. Becerra an assessment of the childs situation. Mrs. Cammack my question is does it include a d. N. A. Test . Yes or no . Sec. Becerra d. N. A. Is one of the tools we use on occasion. Mrs. Cammack only 9 of the situations. Sec. Becerra we do a number of things to go through a series of tests and assessments of a child when we get them. Mrs. Cammack a background check in only 23 of the cases. The d. N. A. That you rely on in your o. R. R. Case managers, if could you please pull up exhibit 2. This shows that the d. N. A. Requirements that you rely on in the case files, i realize this is a c. B. P. Document, but this memo is something that is really important for what were talking about because so much of the case files that your case managers rely on in investigate these thorough checks, theyve suspended the d. N. A. Requirement. Im out of time. I know you want to answer the question anyway. And deviate from your carefully crafted talking points but i think this is disgusting that 85,000 are missing and its on your watch. Mr. Griffith the gentleman from North Carolina, mr. Hudson, for his five minutes of questioning. Mr. Hudson on president bidens first day in office, dozens of president trumps commonsense policies to maintain our southern border were reversed. Policies like remain in mexico, title 42 and Border Construction was stopped even though the contracts were paid. President biden and secretary mayorkas open border policies have created a National Security and a humanitarian crisis. The father of a second grader and congressman of the hrarplgest military installation in the country, it is heartbreaking and frustrating to see this rapid decline in border security. This administrations open border policies are not only affected our nations border communities, but all communities, including those in North Carolina. Because of the reversal of these policies, your agency has been overwhelmed. So the decision was made to weaken vetting procedures for sponsors at the expense of the safety of unaccompanied minors and the communities across our nation. As we saw in an investigative report, h. H. S. Has undone safeguards in place to make sure children are placed with safe sponsors. The result has been over 85,000 lost children, untold numbers of whom have fallen victim to sex and labor trafficking. Mr. Secretary, you previously sat before me at a Health Subcommittee hearing on may 12, 2021. I asked you if you were planning on sending unaccompanied minors to North Carolina. You told me, quote, there is no plan that we have to shelter children in North Carolina, end quote. But your staff has since informed me that the office of Refugee Resettlement conducted an initial site visit in greensboro, North Carolina, on april 22, three weeks before your testimony. And that your people actually conducted a full formal Site Assessment on may 12. Day of your testimony. Your folks were on the ground in North Carolina. Mr. Secretary, it sure sounds like there was a plan to shelter unaccompanied minors in North Carolina. So when i asked you on that day over two years ago, how would you characterize your answer to me . Would you intentionally lying to me and the people of North Carolina or would you say you were carefully choosing your words to mislead me . Would you say you were being clever . What words would you use to describe your answer to me that day . Sec. Becerra thank you for the question. I hope youll understand my answer. I was completely honest with you. Because you asked me if we were planning to send kids to North Carolina. Two years ago we didnt have a facility there that we would be sending kids to North Carolina. We go through the constant process, as you probably heard we look for sites all over the country. We are in 27 states. Were constantly looking for sites. Today we are looking at a particular site in greensboro. And that is the absolute truth. So what i said to you then was accurate. What im saying to you now, i hope youll understand, will be accurate as well. Mr. Hudson well, on the day you said there are no plans, your people were doing a formal second site visit in North Carolina. Sec. Becerra you have to understand the process. We put out a word, were looking for potential sites. We have no idea whats going to come in. Everyone has an opportunity because we have an open process everyone has a chance to show us if they have a good site. At that point in time, we had no idea if there would be a particular site in greensboro that we could use. There might have been interest, but we two years later and we still dont have an open site. Mr. Hudson were you carefully using the word plan, we dont have a plan to try to trick me . Sec. Becerra no, i was trying to be honest with you. If you ask me about any particular site in greensboro, ill give you the details i can give you today with what i know. But i cant predict i couldnt have predicted two years ago where we would be today. And again, we still dont have a particular center open in greensboro, North Carolina. Mr. Hudson ok. Well agree to disagree on that. Speaking of that, i want to know why we even need this facility in North Carolina. There are two influx care facilities in texas that were placed in warm status. Meaning there was no unaccompanied minors in care and minimal facility Management Services onsite. Your staff tells me they plan to move the greensboro intphrugs care facility influx care facility into warm status next month. This sounds like your department may be wasting taxpayer dollars on two empty facilities in texas and plan to opiate another one in North Carolina. If two facilities in texas were moved down to warm status, what factors are you using to move the greensboro facility up to warm status . How are you using the same factors to justify two contradictory actions . Sec. Becerra fair question. One of the sites, for example, fort bliss, is a military installation. We were able in 2021 when we needed to find places, we essentially stood up a site for kids. Before bliss but fort bliss is not supposed to be a place where you care for kids. Were looking for more permanent sites that are more amenable, accommodating to children. Thats where we put out the call from all over the country. One of those sites that may ultimately go online is in greensboro because it is going to be one that we have actually stood up to provide for services to kids. Not a military installation. Mr. Hudson im out of time. I believe when i asked you two years ago, do you have any plans to put children in North Carolina, to be hobbest with honest with me, rather than saying, well, we dont have a plan, you should have said what you said today, which is, were looking everywhere. Were looking at a site. My people are on the ground in North Carolina today that are looking, its possible. That would have been a more complete answer. Sec. Becerra youve approached this in a very respectful way. I hope i can say this respectfully to you. I hope youll find as we develop the relationship and i hope a friendship that ill try to be as honest with you as i can. Mr. Hudson i look forward to that. Mr. Griffith now recognize the gentleman from california for his five minutes. Mr. Cardenas thank you, mr. Chairman. Appreciate this opportunity to have this discussion. And this public discussion on this very, very important issue. Mr. Secretary, youve inherited a deeply challenging task and on the heels of the Trump Administrations egregious and inhumane family separation policy, youre charged with protecting kids who are increasingly exploited and forced into child labor by u. S. Corporations, being forced to work with unsafe machinery and hazardous materials, risking literally life and limb. All of this because of lackluster approach to protecting children by some of my republican colleagues and the twice impeached president routinely vilified and mistreated immigrants. Let me be clear. Child labor is child abuse. And this needs a strong legislative response. At every level. Unfortunately current child Labor Protections do not go nearly far enough to deter Child Exploitation. Corporations, u. S. Corporations find ways to shield themselves from liability by employing third party contractors, for example. This deserves all of our attention. We need solutions designed to protect children. Meanwhile, child labor laws are being systemically weakened by Many Republican legislators at the state level. For example, in at least 10 states, legislation has been proposed to roll back modest child Labor Protections in an attempt to enable multibilliondollar corporations to exploit children right here in america. ImMigrant Children are getting tangled in barbed wire and drowning in rio grande, texas. I hope we hear outrage of that from every Single Person in congress. If republicans are concerned about these kids, they would do everything in their power to make it safer for them to seek asylum. They would make it harder to exploit them and abuse them right here in our own country. Also, one of the solutions that seems to be on the minds of some of my republican colleagues is claiming that the solution is to the exploitation of unaccompanied minors is to shut down immigration at the southern border. This approach is unconscionable and its just unamerican. And its also untenable. Unaccompanied children are some of the most vulnerable among us and the United States has a moral and legal obligation to ensure that those children are safe. I refuse to have us turn our backs on children fleeing war, violence, persecution and abuse. We can address exploitation by making sure sponsor vetting reflects best practices and equip o. R. R. To provide host release services and by having a 60 cut which is what some of my colleagues want to do is not a solution at all. But we should not tolerate the simplistic and inhumane proposal that the answer here is to shut down the southern border. Its time for us to get serious about how we can support these children and not inflict unnecessary cruelty on Vulnerable Children. I have a question for you, secretary becerra. How have state laws rolling back child Labor Protections impeded h. H. S. ability to serve and protect unaccompanied children after being released from o. R. R. Custody . Sec. Becerra congressman, thank you for the question. As you know, in order to be able to enforce laws that protect our children from exploitive labor, we need to have a partnership with our state partners because it wont be enough to just try to do it through the department of labor at the federal level or with h. H. S. We need to work with our state partners and if a state is actually diminishing its protections against child labor, it sure makes it tough for us to go out there and enforce against this type of exploitive process. Ka ed ka ed i think it mr. Cardenas i think it encourages bad actors to do more. Have there been other efforts at the state level to restrict corporations with o. R. R. . If so, what presented the greatest challenges . Sec. Becerra our challenge is trying to make sure we can spot where the exploitive activity will occur and so we can make sure that any sponsor who wishes to take a child would not engage in that activity in cahoots with those employers. And so the more we have working with the department of labor, the more likely well be able to prevent the Child Exploitation that occurs. Mr. Cardenas so department of labor at the federal level but theres also departments of labor at the local level, states. Theyre more important sec. Becerra theyre more important because theyre on the ground and have greater resources and person toledo try to protect personnel to try to protect labor laws, particularly for children. The department at the federal level, the department of labor, is very stretched and we continue to do these partnerships so we can get the best efficiency out of our working together to protect these kids. Mr. Cardenas i Hope Congress gives you more resources to do the job that is needed to be done. I yield back. Mr. Griffith i now recognize the gentlewoman from tennessee for her five minutes. Mrs. Harshbarger some stafl were hesitant to raise concerns due to the fear of retaliation by o. R. R. And facility leadership. In some cases the reported actions of o. R. R. And facility leadership may have risen to the level of whistleblower killing. Mr. Secretary, under your leadership, has h. H. S. Ever threatened to transfer, remove, suspend, revoke the privileges or dismiss anyone for concerning raising concerns about o. R. R. s sponsors vetting process . Yes or no . Sec. Becerra congresswoman, mrs. Harshbarger its just a yes or no, sir. Sec. Becerra i do not threaten we do not threaten mrs. Harshbarger so thats a no. Would you tolerate under your watch suspending, transferring, removing, not promoting, revoking the privileges or dismissing anyone for raising concerns about o. R. R. Policies, procedures or actions taken . Sec. Becerra we have a zero tolerance for any retaliation against whistleblowers. Mrs. Harshbarger the New York Times reported in april this year that an immigration lawyer who helped vet sponsors for h. H. S. Had her Building Access revoked, was fired within hours after emailing h. H. S. About two potential sponsors she was concerned could be labor trafficking Child Migrants. Mr. Chairman, i ask unanimous consent to submit into the committee record the New York Times article dated april 17, 2023. Mr. Griffith well take that up at the conclusion. I assume we have copies of that. Mrs. Harshbarger yes, you do. Mr. Secretary, is the New York Times article right or wrong . Sec. Becerra is it right or wrong about what . Mrs. Harshbarger about the question and statement i just made. About Linda Brandmiller who helps vet responsessers for h. H. S. She had her Building Access revoked and was fired within hours after emailing h. H. S. About a question about sponsors for labor trafficked Child Migrants . Sec. Becerra as a former attorney general who worked with and protected whistleblowers, i can tell you that now as secretary, i do not tolerate on my watch any type of retaliation against whistleblowers. Mrs. Harshbarger i guess you dont know. Was she threatened or removed sec. Becerra on a specific case, as you know, i cant comment on any case that may be before us. Mrs. Harshbarger ok. According to the same tphao eurpl article, jail New York Times article, a senior h. H. S. Employee and life long democrat was moved out of her position after she was informed after she informed Congressional Staff the h. H. S. Inspector general and her bosses, that some sponsors were falsifying identities to get unaccompanied migrants released to them. Did that happen . Was she moved out of her position . Sec. Becerra we have zero tolerance for any retaliation mrs. Harshbarger its just a yes or no. If you dont know, say you dont know. Sec. Becerra youre asking cases about specific cases and i cant comment onion going cases. Mrs. Harshbarger according to the New York Times, two people who were retaliated against for raising the concerns about sponsors, do you dispute that New York Times article that under your leadership h. H. S. Retaliated against at least two whistleblowers . Sec. Becerra again, id have to see this article. We dont retaliate against whistleblowers. Not under my watch. Mrs. Harshbarger ok. According do a february, 2023, New York Times article, rather than listening to these concerns, you were pressuring h. H. S. Employees and contractors to rush more children through the system faster. According to the times you were captured on video saying to staff last summer, quote, if henry ford had seen this in his plans, he would have never become famous and rich. This is not the way you do an Assembly Line, end quote. Is that how your administrations treating the release of unaccompanied minors, sir . Like an Assembly Line that cant stop to make sure that these minors are being released to a safe sponsor . Thats a yes or no. Sec. Becerra you may not have been here earlier, i responded to that question. The information relates to the process we were talking about, not people when it comes to how we gauge in an efficient process to get children where they need. Mrs. Harshbarger i ask unanimous consent to submit into the committee record this february 25, 2023, mr. Griffith thats already been requested. Mrs. Harshbarger thank you. Mr. Secretary, did you tell former o. R. R. Director secretary cindy wong that would you fire her if she didnt speed up the releases of u. A. C. . Sec. Becerra congresswoman, as i said, i do not allow we do not tolerate anyone mrs. Harshbarger so you dont know. Do you know sec. Becerra thats not thats not accurate. Mrs. Harshbarger do you know why she resigned . Sec. Becerra i have many conversations with the personnel at o. R. R. Thats not a conversation i had with anyone. Mrs. Harshbarger ok. Do unaccompanied alien children arriving under the Biden Administration o. R. R. Set up emergency intake sites to deal with demand, one employee at fort bliss reported retaliation after raising issues about Case Management and child safety which caused hesitation among other staff who wished to share concerns. And several staff interviewed by h. H. S. Reported knowledge of staff who were allegedly dismissed or reassigned after expressing concerns. This is in addition to media reports of other retaliation against o. R. R. Staff and contractors who raised concerns. Are you concerned at all that h. H. S. , o. I. G. Found instances of retaliation against employees who raised those concerns . Sec. Becerra we work closely with the o. I. G. Any time they do a report and we follow their recommendations. Usually as quickly as we can. And i can say to you, once again, when it comes to whreuft blowing, its important to protect those who are willing to come forward and at h. H. S. We dont tolerate anyone who would try to retaliate against whistleblowers. Thank you for allowing me to wave on to the subcommittee today. Like so many americans, mr. Secretary, i was really appalled by the New York Times investigative reports about the surge in illegal child labor in our country. We have a moral responsibility, a moral responsibility to ensure the children are not exploited on our watch. Ms. Eshoo before reading that investigative report, i would have responded if asked about child labor in our country and said that it was part of another century. That its gone. But on the heels of, that i led 25 members in writing to you on may 25 about this horrible situation and we got a response this morning. Ive been pouring over your letter since its come in. But here are my questions. In the letter that i received this morning, assistant secretary contreras writes that o. R. R. s internal audit found that the agency, quote, adhered to its Program Policies and priorities designed to meet or exceed statutory requirements when vetting potential sponsors of unaccompanied children. Honestly, you know what that sounds like to me . Nothing is wrong, we did everything right. But there are some terrible things that are wrong in my view and i think in others. If o. R. R. Is, quote, meeting and exceeding its statutory requirements, a, why are we witnessing such an alarming rise in the exploitation of children discharged from the agencys custody . And b, have the children in the sites that they were found to be in, where they were located, factories, slaughter houses, construction sites, have they been removed from those places . Sec. Becerra congresswoman, are you asking me have the children been removed from those work sites . That i could not answer because, again, as i said, you probably werent here, but weve discussed how our authorities are, our reach, once we have placed a child in a sponsors hands, we lose that responsibility. Ms. Eshoo let me just say this. I dont ever desire to be or will i be secretary in a president s cabinet. But honestly, if this came on my watch, and even though thats not under my department, i would pick up the phone with the department of labor, the secretary, and say, i have some jurisdiction in this and its a mess. Sec. Becerra weve done that. Ms. Eshoo i just want to highlight where these children are. So thats why sec. Becerra weve done that. Weve done more. We actually entered into a formal agreement ms. Eshoo so they have have they been removed from these sites . I mean, theyre 13 and 14 year olds working in slaughter house, factories sec. Becerra enforcement with the department of labor, i can take back to them the questions that youre asking about. Whether theres been enforcement at those work sites. Ms. Eshoo the New York Times reports, and this was raised by another member, that you told cindy wong that, quote, if she could not increase the number of discharges, that is of unaccompanied children, you would find someone that could. I heard your answer. You dont deny that youve said it. But you wont say that you did because you cant talk about it. I think we need to do better. Thats my real point. I dont need to ask the question again. But this is so unsettling. This is so unsettling. These are well, i guess at my age i would call them babies. But these are the innocents of the world. And this is really a terrible and i think that the reporting of your threatening to fire her under, you know, undue pressure to expedite releases, i hope youve gone back to review that. I dont know if you have. Let me ask you if youve gone back to review releases. Is there too much speed and not precision relative to children and their lives and their wellbeing . Sec. Becerra congresswoman, as i said before, i have not threatened anyone. And i do not threaten people. Ms. Eshoo so did you speak to this reporter and say or your shop say to this reporter, this is totally inaccurate . Sec. Becerra i never spoke to that reporter. Ms. Eshoo did you read the full investigative report . The New York Times . Sec. Becerra i read the article. I dont know if it was an investigative report. It was an article. It had a lot of information that i think misunderstands the way o. R. R. Operates. And theres information in there thats based ms. Eshoo my time is expired. I just want to say that reports of trafficking and abuse of imMigrant Children has more than doubled from 2021 to 2022. And really at the end of the day, as h. H. S. Secretary, the buck stops with you. So i can hope, i can pray, i can press, other members have, members from both sides of the aisle. This is something that needs to be totally removed from taking place in our country. Really, i think that gods going to hold all of us responsible if this is not addressed and addressed the way it should. I yield back. The speaker pro tempore now recognize the gentleman from georgia for his five minutes of questioning. Mr. Carter thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you for allowing me to wave onto this subcommittee. Mr. Secretary, ive been waiting for your return to congress. Last time we had some unfinished business. I want to shift gears a little bit if thats ok. I appreciate my colleagues concern about unaccompanied children. I share colleagues concern about unaccompanied children. I share their concerns. But i have another concern and its about the Inflation Reduction Act. Specifically about the prescription portion of that. Weve spoken about this before. This committee, as well as on the budget committee. You have expressed and youve said its your personal belief that the Inflation Reduction Act would lead to more cures being developed by the same pharmaceutical and Biotech Companies whose reach and development youre fixing to slash. As you know, professionally im a pharmacist. And i have seen nothing short of miracles as a result of research and development. Thats why this is so important to me. Ive watched families, ive watched families suffer. Ive seen children lose parents. Ive seen parents lose children. And its very important to me that we continue with research and development and new drugs that ive witnessed in my career. Drugs that have been nothing short of miracles. And yet, again, you maintained and said the last time i had the opportunity to ask you questions that you believed the Inflation Reduction Act is going to result in more cures. Whereas researchers at the university of chicago said that it will eliminate up to 342 cures over the next 20 years. The biotech firm, research firm, vital transformation, predicts up to 139 drugs will not be developed over the next decade because of the first r. A. And of the 49 traoepblts currently on the market would not have existed had the i. R. A. Been in effect. Even the congressional budget office, the c. B. O. , our economists here in congress, even they said that its going to eliminate treatments and cures that would have otherwise been developed. Weve already had drugs that have been pulled by pharmaceutical manufacturers as a result of this. I know . Theres a pending i know theres a pending lawsuit as well from manufacturers. I have to ask you, mr. Secretary, what makes you right and these other agencies wrong . I dont get it. Sec. Becerra congressman, thank you for the question. And i hope youll agree that no american should be paying two to three times the price for a drug, often times mr. Carter i understand that. I was the one at the counter having to tell the Senior Citizen what the price of a medication was and watching them try to make a decision between buying groceries and buying their medicine. Im the one who watched the mother in tears as she tried to get the antibiotic for her child. Trying to figure out how she was going pay for it. Im doing everything i can humanly to bring down Prescription Drug prices. But i do not and i will not stand by while this administration, while this agency stops research and development that i have witnessed over the past 40 years in practicing pharmacy, that has resulted in miracles. Sec. Becerra my response would be that increased competition helps stimulate more production, more innovation. And the more we can lower prices, the more were going to have that competition. So if were ever going to get those prices down on those drugs that cost us two or three times than they cost in other parts of the world, it will be because were able to negotiate to get good prices and encourage not only competition, but innovation. Mr. Carter you know as well as i do that youre missing this is a swing and a miss. Its not yeah, the pharmaceutical manufactures need to do better but you know its the middleman. You know its the p. B. M. , the Insurance Companies that are doing this. Sec. Becerra when you have people who today are paying 35 dz for their insulin instead of 35 for than insulin instead of 200, thats a win. Mr. Carter its a win for the copayments but not going to bring down the price of the insulin. Sec. Becerra we saw three other companies have agreed to do the same thing mr. Carter with the copay. Mr. Secretary, again, the c. B. O. , all of the university of chicago, all of these have said that this is going to result in fewer cures. What makes them wrong . Why are they wrong and youre right . Sec. Becerra congressman, we know that if you stimulate competition and innovation, youll have better drugs at a better price. Mr. Carter do they know that . Im sure they know that as well. But they are saying and im just baffled by the fact that youre saying that youre right and everybody else is wrong. You know, i was always taught, son, when it seems like everybody else is wrong and youre the only one who is right, you have to stop for a minute and think, you know, it might not be everybody else. Sec. Becerra im implementing the law that congress passed. I didnt say that. Mr. Carter no. But you continue to go this route. And this administration. Again, i have to tell you, i didnt come up here for some egotivity cal trip. I came ego tistical trip. I was the one on the other side of the count who are had to tell patients, im not going to let this agency stop research and development. Of miracle drugs that ive witnessed in my career. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Mr. Griffith the gentleman yields back. I now recognize our last witness, mr. Joyce of pennsylvania. Mr. Joyce thank you, mr. Secretary. Thank you for agreeing to appear before us today and thank you, chairman griffith, for allowing me to wave on. Secretary becerra in march of 2022, the foundation for Government Accountability submitted multiple foia requests seeking information on the enforcement of hospital Price Transparency roles. After c. M. S. Prolonged delay in complying, a court subsequently ordered c. M. S. To produce all the required documents by april of 2023. Although c. M. S. Has provided nearly 2,000 paeupbls of documents, pages of document, i would like to raise two concerns. First, based on f. G. A. s initial review of the documents, it appears that c. M. S. Is not adequately enforcing the hospital Price Transparency role. Secondly, c. M. S. Is withholding over 38,000 pages of responsive documents. Claiming trade secret exemptions. First, mr. Secretary, can you tell us today what percentage of hospitals are in compliance with the Price Transparency role . Sec. Becerra thank you for the question. It is an important subject. I apologize that i came prepared to talk about the unaccompanied children program. We can try to get mr. Joyce thank you. I would appreciate the followup. Do you feel that c. M. S. Is taking the appropriate and necessary actions to enforce this role to date . Sec. Becerra c. M. S. Has been working hard to implement any number of regulations and statutes that are now in place as a result of Congress Passage of these new laws. I can try to get back to you on mr. Joyce thank you. I think that information is important. Would you agree that by withholding the documents that i mentioned above, that c. M. S. Is giving the impression that c. M. S. Is afraid of what the public might uncover through this foia effort . Sec. Becerra c. M. S. Has been working very lard to implement the dinner laws that are now different laws that are now in place that congress has passed. Ill try to get back to you. Mr. Joyce thank you. I think revealing that information would be definitely so important when were dealing with an issue such as transparency. Further, on that topic of transparency, recent Research Conducted by the american academy, the head and neck surgery foundation, has brought attention to significant price disparities between the average sales price and the prices charged by hospitals for certain Cancer Therapies. The Study Reveals that some hospitals are charging markups as high as 300 above for these therapies. We believe that it is imperative to address these issues, to ensure fair pricing, transparency, and acability of medications for all patients accessibility of medications for all patients. How do you ensure patients are not burdened with exorbitant costs for life saving treatments . Sec. Becerra congressman, we continue to move forward with the implementation of the very important Price Transparency law, as well as the no surprises act that you all passed that makes sure that consumers, patients, are not burdened with unexpected bills, that they have a chance to understand what their bill might be if they go into a hospital. I could try to follow up with you on any of those questions. Mr. Joyce i thank you. I think you addressing transparency with us in drug pricing, as recently mentioned, is essential for patients. They need to have that transparency to make informed decisions. Specifically regarding their medical care. What steps would you take to promote Greater Transparency in hospital pricing for Cancer Therapies to prevent excessive markups and ensure affordability for patients . Sec. Becerra we continue to try to make sure were implementing not just the letter of the law on Price Transparency, but the spirit which means every american should be able to understand what the charge would be for the services theyre about to get. No one wants to be blindsided. So we continue to implement. Obviously as you know, as you stated, there are a lot of folks, a lot of stake holders who dont like the law that you all passed because that means they have to be more open and transparent. So were going to continue to do the work. We look forward to working with you on that. Mr. Joyce i think to that end point and i appreciate you offering to bring forth that percentage of hospitals that are in compliance with the transparency role, i think as this Committee Works towards transparency, works towards access of the greatest therapies in america for these patients who are underying significant undergoing significant hardships as they face Cancer Therapy and cancer treatment. That i again for i thank you again for being here with us today. Mr. Chairman, once again i thank you for allowing me to wave on and i yield back the balance of my time. Mr. Griffith i thank the gentleman for yielding back. Seeing there are no further members wishing to ask questions. Id like to thank our witnesses again for being here today. Secretary becerra, thank you. I know some of the questions were not directly on point on what we wanted to talk about but most of them were. And you agreed to get back with some of those questions where you were not expected to be prepared today. And i appreciate that. Pursuant to committee rules, i remind members that they have 10 Business Days to submit additional questions for the record and i ask the witness to respond within 10 Business Days upon receipt of those questions. And oh, i also ask unanimous consent to insert in the record the documents included on the staff hearing documents list. Without objection, that will be the order and this subcommittee is adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org]