Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20150326

We are working very hard to make sure that my criminal investigators, my counterintelligence investigators, my counterterrorism operators and all of our International Operations are growing our ability to be good in cyberspace. To protect kids to fight fraud to fight everything we are responsible we have to operate there. Thats the people, training, technology and spark deployment. I will mention one thing that most smokes most folks dont understand. We also spend time building the worlds greatest library of improvised explosive devices. Another thing the American People dont realize the hard earned tax dollars has bought and shortly. We have the bill dudley device is detonated or found anywhere in the world to compare the forensics of that, the tool marks the hairs, the fingerprints the thousands of other samples with collected in an operation centered in alabama alabama. Work that is hidden from the taxpayers not intentionally just doesnt get a lot of headlines but makes a big difference. I will close chairman Roger Mitchell state and local partners to the are essential to everything we do to cut into all 56 field offices and ive met with sheriffs in chiefs in all 56 to build those relationships. I do Something Else which i think every member of a family like Law Enforcement, should do when officers killed a lot of to i call the sheriff or the chief to express our condolences and offer help. I make way too many calls. I said three officers killed in this country to yesterday another one earlier this week. Totally different circumstances. United by the fact they were all murdered by funds and their people certain didnt deserve that and leave behind families but i mention it is because it leaves me today with a heavy heart and were having an important conversation in this country a special about race and policing which im huge fan of having but im team to make sure we have conversations about lawenforcement we understand what the stake and the sacrifices made by the men and women in Law Enforcement and kind people who sign up to do this sort of work and especially today with the loss of so much life just in the last 24 hours to its on my mind so i thought i would imagine a. I will close by thanking you for support. The 9 11 review commission told the world today, we released 129 pages of the report. We declassified as much as we possibly could and their message is you have done great its not good enough. That is exactly my message to the fbi. I said thats what it means to be worldclass. To know youre good and never, never be satisfied with it. We have made a lot of progress and transform our capabilities your we still need to go further. The American People deserve us to be even better than we are today. My pledge pledge is like a and f. Years ago, i will work every day to make us better. So thank you for your time. Thank you for your thank you, director comey. You mentioned us all to keep your officers in her purse. Are going to the families of those free agents who lost their lives. That is something that all of us either keep in the forefront of reminded the sacrifice, the risk that all of you take in protecting us and the country from these incredibly complex and very threats. Its also apparent in this new era the scale of the problem is a huge that you do have to rely on state and local authorities. It is a team effort and the genius of america is that the founders envisioned a system where protecting lives and property, police powers, is vested originally in the states. And and good hearts and commonsense of individual americans so theres also a vital role i think in individual americans to play in helping to defend the country. Its really the most Important Role quite unpleasant one thing our enemies will never be able to defeat is a good hearts, a goodthegood common sense of individual americans defending their communities the work that our local police and sheriffs and state Police Officers do is just indispensable and a partnership with you is vital and appreciate you very much making it to us today. And the evolving threat we face was important motivation of course behind chairman walls chairman walls a member to great the 9 11 nine 9 11 commission which releases unclassified, released its unclassified report today. As i mentioned at nice tim roemer and Bruce Hoffman and Bruce Hoffman for authors of the poor and appreciate you mentioned in your opening testimony. One of the key recommendations they made that a know you have already begun to do and want to ask you to elaborate on a little more is the vital Important Role that intelligence analysts play in the new world, the fbi now confronts. And could you talk over more about work you are doing to government the recommendation of the 9 11 9 11 commission to professionalize the intelligence analysts position within the fbi . Thank you, mr. Chairman. The fbi didnt have an Intelligence Career Service as recently as 13 years ago. And so we have made great progress but transform amortization creating an entirely new element of the organization i believe is a generational project. And so bob mueller spent a decade on. I announced as soon as i start i was in my decades pushing on that same change because its about attracting great chow training and equipping but its about having the rest of the organization accept them learn to work well together with them. And were doing that extremely well in some places. Other places not so much. So what im doing is a bunch of Different Things but im training our leaders. I want effective integration between operations and intelligence looks like am i making it personal priority so that ive Monthly Review a series of projects to drive that forward. I great our leaders on it and im working very hard to make sure that people understand this is something fbi has always done. Weve always been an intelligence business. This is about making us better. It isnt a threat to anyone. Its not making this Great Organization better. So it is one of my three personal priorities at the fbi to make sure that i tried that integration between intelligence, analyst and operate, particularly our special agents and make good everywhere in the United States. In particular in making the analyst positions moving them into Senior Management level making sure there integrated with, as far as possible into Senior Management positions. Yes, sir. One of the things i swore to this committee is to create a separate Intelligence Branch. So the leader was much closer to me so that i could see that person and drive it. Appointed a very special agent to the role that i said i loved him as a person, dont like him as a concept because were the fbi should be that role should be some who came up through the Intelligence Career Service. Ive got talent coming up towards that but i will know that we made progress in to the Intelligence Branch is led by an intelligence Careers Service professional. To talk to us also about depends recognition that the fbi about a five year plan like the defense department, a Strategic Plan and work to implement the recommendation, it do you agree with the concept . Thats what i told the commissioners i need to give more thought to. I dont want to create plans just for the sake of creating five year plans. Is that a lot of institutions where people spend time writing them and then they said on the show. We have all kinds of plants and hebrew. I need to figure where theres a missing overarching Strategic Plan that ought to be written covering a five year period. I told them i would get back to the on the. I dont yet whether that makes sense for me. The commission would issue we recognize and point out to the public for information sharing with state and local Police Departments and Law Enforcement authorities is a good news story. Talk to us all the more about that. That is a very good news story. We have a thing broken lots of berries both technological and regulatory policy between the culture has changed. We now Going Forward and push things out as a matter of reflex, just a great to hear. Asked about wherever i i go into United States, all 50 states because they are we doing to the shares energies. The answers youre doing string will. Weve seen a dramatic change. Its the right thing to do but its also the very practical reason we need these folks. Our joint Terrorism Task force is a bit redundant state and local lawenforcement to contribute their telcos but i think thats a good news story but as i said to folks look, ive a great marriage but i believe i can always find a way to be a better spouse. Weve relationship with state and local Law Enforcement. I want to continue to improve it if we can. Im confident the first time were going to spot someone is come here to do us harm from overseas will be an average american using their good judgment and their instincts to spot something peculiar and or local Police Officer or local sheriff having spotted something that is something to the instincts as a good Law Enforcement officer does them is out of place and wrong. So it is a good story a friend with the entire 9 11 commission recommendations, its very encouraging to see that the sum of what they have sent to congress in the on classic version and the classified version is a good news story for the fbi that youve done a good job in respond to 9 11, and we appreciate that very much. Let me recognize mr. Fattah. Thank you. When it became ranking on the subcommittee one of my first visits was without to the center for missing and exploited children which is one of the places where you to joint operations looking for children and innocence lost project which the committee has supported you now have been able to rescue some 430050 children 4350 children. There are thousands and children children missing. Many of them are being exploited at all kinds of trouble, circumstances. As you as the director you have to prioritize what are you going to place you said your greatest resources your people your agent. Ive also been to the joint terrorism screening center, very important work going on there. You have to make these decisions about whether someone is tracking down a child whos been exploited where the sum is looking chasing down a terrorist and so on. Could you just share with us as youre working through these issues how you have prioritized this under your leadership . Thank you, mr. Fattah. The work involving kids by the way is the most important and meaningful things we do. As a father of five ive gone out and visited nick amick. If i met with all of my folks who do this work and told them theres nothing with deeper moral content and network the network and want you to take care of yourselves because i work it eats my people. The way we approach it generally is is that the only metaphor us not a Football Player but im a football fan. I view the fbi like a safety and health. With certain assigned coverages. Counterterrorism, Counter Intelligence nonnegotiable every game can be, every opponent thats our responsibility. But beyond that i want to do is look for the primary line of defense and say where do you need us in this game . Unidas in the flats, over the middle she would play run runcible should we play deep . That would be different in every game against every opponent. The way the metaphor works as i told my special agents in charge is in a season which offered figure out where we can make a tackle. I do want to jump on file for people have been tackled or id want to be in the back but they get where we are needed. We are a big agency but we are small compared to state and local enforcement. Figure out where the need is to make a tackle. That is institutional is a process we called for review and prioritization. It is a very disciplined and very, very complicated process. We figure out what threats in the United States we are needed to make a tackled in philadelphia where we needed, in need it, in phoenix, in birmingham where we need it. To come up with an annual list. You mentioned the taxpayer may not know about the explosive bomb detection training you do in alabama. I dont think most veterans have any idea the thousands of children go missing every week in our country. Some of them end up in circumstances which they are exploited for years coming in on the internet and otherwise youre so if youve got coming to mention the officer who shot this week and killed in wisconsin a suspect in a bank robber to as you chase bank robbers, right . So somebody special agent in charge, says were going to go to bank robbers are we going to go after this little girl whos been exploited. And make very tough decisions with limited resources. Im just understand conflict to make decisions about what we are funding how youre making this decision. None of them none of them, i guess you want to do all that youve got to speak the way we make a decision is sit down and talk to people like ncmec, talk to social service agencies, talk to Law Enforcement is it okay to on the special agent in charge in philadelphia. To be doing with to address that problem here . Given that where would i rank it in my priorities like impressed by resources against it according to its on the priority level. Which is the same thing at the National Level in washington we sentencing what are the bad things that happen in the United States that the fbi might be of help with . There are 304 bad things and the we said okay given who else is helping with those bad things, and the harm that flows from those bad things, how will we rank them . We do that and come up with a National Directive also threats we can face. Its imperfect but its way in which we try to balance it. We do the work youre talking but in every field office. The chairman mentioned ryan who runs into paul and his doing a terrific job. The europeans interpol. It means that something magical going on because they can make arrests and prosecutions throughout the 20th countries with no extradition, none of these other issues. They kind of have a system that we cant do state to state. In america which is interesting they have been able to jump over language and nationalities to work Law Enforcement in a much much seamless way. Its something we can learn i think as we go forward. Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Chairman rogers. The biggest change that ive seen in my experience as far as the fbi is concerned over the years has been the graduation from investigating already committed crimes and preparing evidence for prosecution. And then theres todays world where youre working more in preventing, trying to prevent events including crime before it takes place. Counterterrorism trying to prevent terrorism trying to keep spies away the constant barrage of Cyber Threats foreign and domestic, prevention rather than prosecution although it may eventually be prosecution. Thats a significant change. And its taken an effort on the part of the fbi leadership over these last few years to try to get it through the agencies had about this new world in which we live. An admission that the fbi more prevention than prosecution. Do you agree with that . Very much. The transformation that happen in the fbi is one from a place where we were criticized through some justification for work in our inbox. Something that came in for a call came in we responded to a we investigated it to stepping back and have a lot of thoughtful people say, so what other bad things that are going on that might happen and how do we find out more about them so we can address it before it happens . Thats the intelligence transformation. We have always been i am director but i say this with pride, i believe we are best in the world at finding things out. What we are getting much better at getting thoughtful about, so whats to be we need to find out and who else needs to know the stuff that we found out. And what might we not know, what stuff are we missing . Be much more thoughtful about that. Thats taking the intelligence talent a connecting it to the great talent in my special agents. Well, and the current world war, frankly the world terrorism violence is a worldwide event. So were in a world war and were up against a very sophisticated, capable enemy. The recruiting of foreign fighters into syria and iraq. Weve not found a way yet in my opinion, to effectively stop or even slow it down. And its more than a Law Enforcement from its more than an fbi mission but it certainly is an fbi mission. But just last week we learned about a 47 yearold air force veteran who tried to join isis. And before his apprehension he worked for number of american firms overseas and including a u. S. Defense firm in iraq for whom to perform avionics on u. S. Army aircraft. Weve had several stories like that that have appeared. Is there a magic bullet to try to get that kind of problem that fbi came to speak with there isnt a magic bullet. To us its about a fullcourt press making sure that we have sources will we need when we need them to be that we have the capability both the know have the Technical Capability to play in the online space with a meeting and recruiting and radicalizing, and that we are closely connected to stay local partners. I agree with the chairman they are far likely to hear about a guy thinking of going to see and were connecting with our intelligence partners and our foreign partners who are tripwires. What happened to that guy is the egyptians spotted him when he was sent back from turkey alerted us then we were able to lay hands on him. Switch completely to the Prescription Drug problem which has been devastating in my part of the state in the country your particularly oxycontin. Another were beginning to make a dent in the pill mills closing down in florida and georgia and other places, and finally getting fda to change the formulation of drugs like oxycontin to make them nonabuse nonabuse, a lot of the country is shifting to heroin. And the drug cartels in mexico im hearing are now getting into the pill business because of the enormous profits there. What can you tell us about that . I think youve identified something that doesnt get the attention it deserves. Dea has the lead but we do a lot to support them so i know a fair bit about this. We see the mexican traffickers increasingly shifting to heroin white hair when. Used to be that brown hair with this coming out of mexico. White hair when, highly pure. Whats happening is as you said, mr. Chairman, its supplanting pill abuse because its cheaper, easy to get and its extraordinarily deadly because people using it sound like an odd thing to say but dont know how to use care when. Dont realize 93 97 pure and the kids and adults and people of all walks of life are dying all over this country again as i travel the country i see it sweeping south and west. And i became director 18 months ago i heard about it a lot. In the northeast, sort of the north central, now im hearing about it everywhere i go. For economic reasons its cheap and the traffickers are pushing it in. We are spending a lot of time trying to work with dea and local partners to disrupt the traffickers to impose costs on this week in short visible and drive the price up so we dont have 6000 deaths or more last year so we can push those number of tragedies down. Well still, more people are buying from a prescription pill abuse dying from prescription pill abuse than car wrecks. Even though part of the country switching to heroin the pills are still a problem. A good part of the country. Mr. Chairman ive abused my time spent not at all. Quickly and finally Cyber Threats. Where are we . Cyber is a feature every threat. I described as an evil layer cake. The top level with nationstate actors who are looking to break into our corporate systems and ourcitizens andtheir Government Systems to steal all kinds of information. Further economic events before the intelligence advantage. Then we have organized criminal groups, very sophisticated hackers looking to steal americans information for criminal purposes. Then weve got all manner of thugs of criminals and pedophiles down below. The reason is obvious. Our lives are the. My kids put on the internet. Thats where we bank health care, critical infrastructure. Those who would do harm to children or money or credit card information or our banks are critical ever structure, thats what they come. Where they come. So there isnt a single cyberthreat. It is the future of everything the fbi is responsible for and it is the bad guys have shrunk the world because belarus is next door to birmingham on the internet. So we are were working very hard to shrink it back. So i can forward deploy my cyber experts to make the globes most we can oppose some calls. Right that everybody thinks its a freebie to steal americans information to we have to impose costs on these people. Even though theyre in their pajamas halfway across the work they are afraid to break into and americans like and steal what matters to us. We have absolute evidence absolute proof that these attacks, many of these attacks are from states country . Yes. Military . Military intelligence yes. Russian . Rush is a significant player in cyber intrusions as is china obviously. Two huge operators in that world. We have proof that russia and china, and other government are attacking our country cyber information on a daily basis. Yes. What are we doing about it . A lot of Different Things, on some which i can talk about here. One of the things were trying to do is name it and change. We didnt pass you by inviting five members of the Peoples Liberation army and publicizing them on posters who were stealing information from american companies, stealing our ideas and our innovations. People say and i think it will not do any good. You would never catch the. I always say we have many flaws that the fbi because were humans. We are dogged and never say never. People like to trouble. Unlike other children educated in the United States or europe. Never say never. We are trying to impose cost. Part of the cause is name calling it a. The chinese are stealing our innovation, our ideas, our creativity, our jobs. In fact it was this subcommittee many years ago first brought attention to foreign governments hacking into his files come in the sort of led the way. But boy its come a long way and im not satisfied at all that we are doing what we need to do to try to stop it. Or counteract it. Thank you, mr. Director. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, its a top party force on this subcommittee of keen interest to all of us in the congress but particular interest to me and work that youve done. Ive had a chance to come out here in a classified setting. Its very impressive, and what advice before we move on very quickly if you could, tell the American Public out there listening to some good basic rules to protect themselves, good hygiene practices against cyber attack on their own computers or smart phones at home. Folks should exercise the prudence wandered around electronic neighborhood that they would want to rent any other neighborhood. I say people try to train my children on this come with across the parking lot at night in a Shopping Mall they are a look to think about what ago walking is certainly, they lock their car. People should be the same on the internet. Its actually a bigger neighborhood, a bigger parking lot and more dangerous. So what i tell folks is very simple. And email is a knock on your front door. Opening the attachment to email is open your front door. You would never open your front door without looking through your people in seeing which there. But although some folks get an email and they open the attachments and their whole life can bestow in the moment. And also know where your children are. You know where your children go to play. At least i do. And folks did youinvoked it to know what other kids doing on the internet. Where are they going . Who are they interacting with . Its commonsense we seem to exercise in all aspects of her life except were sitting at the keyboard which makes no sense because we just made the entire world our neighbors when youre behind that keyboard. I heard your wonderful analyst house at a hearing a classified setting mr. Chairman, with some of your cyber folks that 80 of protecting yourself against a cyber attack is good hygiene like washing hands some of the basic things that you have just mentioned to us. Thank you, director your mr. Honda. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Director comey thank you for coming today to testify before the subcommittee. As you know a key tool in combating crime is the use of combined dna. Coders blends Forensic Science with Computer Technology to accurately identify suspects and assist the successful prosecution of criminals. Lesters Budget Hearing i brought up the nationwide backlog of Sexual Assault kids which is run a hundred thousand. Shortly after that hearing i met with the county attorney in your office to begin discussions about the backlog that upload of codis and im pleased the Fbi Laboratory staff have met with the dsl times regarding a Pilot Project that may facilitate codis upload of dna profiles linked to those accused Sexual Assault crimes. Having said that, i just wanted at also my thanks to the past chairman frank wolf who really carried us and helped us see it entirely through. The fy 15 appropriation bill includes 41 Million Dollars just the first point of the backlog in Police Evidence rooms. Im hopeful theyll continue to program in fy 16. Im aware this is outside of your purview but it wanted you to know we are committed to this issue. I encourage you and your staff to continue to work on the Pilot Project that will focus on another point of the backlog that is the technical review by government labs over private labs before upload codis. I would like to now turn to have a second point of the backlog can be addressed. Namely the limitation of rapid dna instruments in the Police Booking stations. Im a Firm Believer that having an arrestee sample tested quickly by a rapid dna while the arrestee still in the booking of fiber, that will reduce burden on government labs and hope that youll be able to continue. I raised this issue last you as well but i know that the fbi is supportive of rapid Dna Technology but since lesters Budget Hearing could you tell me about what drivers has been made to him and the loss of her calls for the use of rapid dna instruments in Police Booking stations . And once the relevant requirements have been amended what is your approximate time, assuming it has been amended for limiting the rapid dna instruments in Law Enforcement agencies . Thankthank you, mr. Honda. And thank you very continued focus on the rape kit backlog. There are rapists out there who will victimize more women and the key to stopping insists on the shelves in a lot of Police Departments but i appreciate your focus on the. I promise you we will remain focused on agile the with respect to rapid the it dna youre right we are fans. A simple can be taken when someone is arrested and uploaded to codis immediately. Ive talked to my dna experts. They continue to work with the companies theres a private Company Enterprise as you are making these devices to give them guidance on what would be needed to make it able to connect to our database in a way that preserves the sterling reputation of our database. My folks tell me theres all kinds of challenges around the kitchen where the right software and the right hardware to connect the devices but Good Progress is being made. They think we are probably two to three years away though from being in a place where this is a common feature. Even in our biggest cities. I understand it does require lets say the authorization. I dont know exactly sitting here today where that sits inside the executive branch but i think with the office of management and budget being look out for privacy reasons. For privacy issues. But that is both are marching along at the same time the technical fix and the legislative fix. Thats my understanding today. Okay. Because we to understand that theres 500,000 kids [inaudible] 500,000 cases that is being left without the great evidence that dna will provide. So victims and arrestees are at bay in order to get the justice, and they think the quicker we move to implement this then we can reduce these backlog and have people, really enjoy the benefits of our technology but also our Rapid Response to justice. Mr. Chairman if i may just indulge one quick question. I just want to thank you very much for adding to the fbi training manual which will include the guidance to assist Law Enforcement identify and reporting hate crimes directed at arabs images but i think i will be able to produce a great deal of information. I do have a concern though about a comment that you made last month on race and fully cibecue said this would because i can tell you how many people were shot by the Police Last Week last month, last year. It may be taken out of context but that was a cool. As i understand correctly departments a volunteer basis report incidents to the data that the fbi keeps on just [inaudible] this however is problematic. According to one Justice Department statistician was quoted in a news article said, the fbi justifiable homicide and estimates from arrested related deaths both have significant limitations in terms of coverage and reliability that are primarily due to agency participation. Could you discuss what the situation is currently with voluntarily reporting and what approaches exist [inaudible] i agree very much. It wasnt out of context. I cant tell with any Conference Summary people were shot by the police in any period of time. Yesterday, last week last year because we dont have uniform reporting thats universal. Not all Police Departments we have 17,000 Police Department in the United States that ought not all reporting to us violent encounter with suspects i dont have any confidence in my day. What and it was i think its ridiculous i can tell you how many books are sold at amazon, how many people and to the hospital with the flu last week but we dont have data. Every conversation about Police Encounters with citizens is by definition uninformed in this country and that the crazy place to be. What im doing is it is a voluntary system. It requires the support of local and state Law Enforcement. So im working with the sheriffs and the chiefs who all agree with me to give us the data what do you need for us to build up you at the daily kos we will be talked to congress i think more than the road about arthur incentives congress could offer to folks give us the data but we are not in a good place to and its one of the think something to do after the speech they could to try to improve the records. Perhaps our good chairman, we might be able to look at this and see if we can be able to assist in helping the fbi to acquire these information because voluntary reporting of police shootings, it just doesnt seem to be acceptable especially in todays environment and the kinds of things that we know. Whats going on to whats going on in our country right now. We will explore that and also the level of violence Police Officers encounter everyday in the difficult and dangerous work on our behalf. Let me recognize the state of mississippi and our newest member mr. Palazzo. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And before i get into questions i would briefly like to express my gratitude and appreciation to the Appropriations Committee and the members of congress, or conference for allowing me to serve in the seat our friend and colleague Alan Nunnelee held there under everyone knew him is heartbroken of his passing, and although i do not believe issues can be filled i hope to serve this committee with the best interest of the United States in mind just as our good friend did for four years. With that said, director comey i appreciate you being here and appreciate your sacrifices that your people, the magic and the agency as you so eloquently said provides for our security and protection here at home. And im sorry for your loss too, as well as the three fbi agents you mention. We, too, of lost eight u. S. Marshal in the past month and he is from south mississippi. It was in the line of duty and he left a wife and unborn child to carry on his legacy. So we know what you all sacrifice day in and day out, some of the best people in the people serve in our Law Enforcement. I would like to follow up real quick on chairman rogers mentioned copy product china and china is something from armed service, Homeland Security, my former committees has always paid my curiosity. They seem to be aggressively building up their military and Space Capabilities peak my to yossi. I dont want to be working about but we know china, the government of china is involved in Cyber Attacks on american hundred and american enterprise. And so knowing that and just indicting five individuals to kind of expose them and shame them doesnt i dont think really works with china. They have the consent of their government. So with that, how do we counter cyber . What would you recommend to us on how we counter these Cyber Threats both internally and externally . I guess if unnamed country if you want to pound on them. I just want to your thoughts. Thank you. I shouldve said i may have misspoke and. The three lives that were lost were Police Officers. One state trooper into local Police Officers. As you agree, it does make any difference. Still great people lost in the light of duty. With respect to china or any state after engaged in cyberintrusion activity in the United States, the question about what can be done more broadly about them is one is both beyond they can of the fbi and one that is even it was the fbis lincoln we wouldnt discuss in an open forum but what weve done to do is make sure our responsibility is to investigate cyberintrusion to the United States to make sure that our government has a full understanding of whos doing what so we can figure as a country what to do about it. One of the things we been involved in is bringing criminal charges against some of those actors as part of a toolbox approach to try to change behavior with the chinese. There are other things beyond the fbi that i know ive gone on on, diplomatic for example and its part of a lot of international forums. Our government is working try to adopt some norms to get the chinese to go along with them but it is my function or the fbis to understand what theyre doing to develop the facts and then show our government heres what we see. I understand you know, the cyberthreat israel and i think congress and the American People are recognizing that its real and it is clear and present danger i hope were doing everything that we can as members of congress to provide your agency as well as others with the resources to counter this threat. Not just illegally downloading music but its a huge fear that if they engage in some form of cyber attack that it could cripple our critical infrastructure. The last thing i would want to see as the lights go out and your atm doesnt work, your navigation on your car and your phone, i think it would cause a huge amount of panic in our country. He also mentioned something about the siren song of the radical islamists and these people that you mentioned that we dont really see them. They are not obvious to us in a large extent because they are in their basements consuming this form of poison. Can you come i guess a lack of a better word, profile what this person would be . And is there certain you know something about their demographics that make them vulnerable to this poison . Because i agree with you it is a poison and we dont need our young, we dont need anybody in america consuming it. In a way i wish i could. Thats one of the challenges of this threat is when we talk about travelers the people that we know who have gone to syria took up with isil range from 1862. They are from any part of the country any background. They were either raised in the islamic faith or our converts who then but they may have all different kind of backers all different places in the United States, consumers and develop this you that this is how they will find meaning in life. The one common characteristic they have which is not a great marker for me finding them is they are people who are troubled souls seeking meaning in life. But thats not a poverty marker. Some of them have jobs. They just have a misguided sense that the need to purchase the in the apocalyptic battle. Some of them are kind of losers whove had trouble with crimes or petty crimes but there is a particular pattern. We have studied it very closely and search for the pattern. But so far i cant offer you one one. Thank you, director. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Followed a very briefly on the point about china to the back door, a trojan horse can be created in the Computer System with a piece of software that you might be up to do that or it can be hardwired into a computer device, the computer chip or a piece of Telecommunications Equipment as a piece of hardware and it is invisible and you cant see. The problem is so bad and the chinese that australia, you shouldnt havent actually just prohibited recently the purchase of any Telecommunications Equipment by any Government Entity in austria. But they recognize this time mr. Aderholt. And the state of alabama. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, its good to be here today for this hearing. Thank you for mentioning what we did down in alabama. We appreciate the way to mention birmingham. I met with the folks, some of the folks from the birmingham facility just recently. One of the things you talked about and they mentioned to me was that the new iphone, new iphone six have an encryption in it that you cant get into theyre encrypted and theres no back door key. And just wanted to know what and, of course, this is different from their predecessors, the other phones were able to get into. What is fbis decision on apple and googles decision both to encrypt these smart phones . We have a huge problem. Where we in Law Enforcement state, local and federal, and a National Security are increasingly when we have core processes judges issued search warrant or interception warrant we are unable to exit on those orders because the device is locked with the committee patients are encrypted. So we are drifting to a place where all the people look at us with tears in her eyes and said what do you mean you cant . My daughter is missing. You have for fun. Tell me who she was texting with before she disappeared i keep saying democracy should never drift, maybe thats what we want to go but i think we have done the conversation in this country about where are we going. I dont want backdoors. I want with the Court Process the ability to gather evidence after i show probable cause to believe on the device theres evidence of a crime. The Fourth Amendment is clearly in play and i follow it advocate authority. We need to discuss if were going to go to a place where we cant get access. Its a huge feature would discuss it with shares and shes raise it with me everywhere in the country cities are important as a these are important Domestic Violence case, child exportation cases, car wrecks. And looks after what the answer is that if something went to talk about. You mentioned about the mother shows you the phone and says you cant get into it. What programs has it affected and can you just let us know the damage is done to the fbi . Its a feature of weve encountered it in drug cases all of our work we have encountered a. Im not in position where i could offer percentage or a number but it is a future now and obstacle in the huge of our criminal investigations. It will only become worse and worse. Effort tech executives a privacy should be the paramount virtue. Where you that i close my eyes asand said id imagine what the world looks like. Where pedophiles cant be seen kidnappers can be seen, drug dealers cant be seen. I dont have a number i can express it as but i hear it all over the country if we are drifting to place and not talking about it. Do you need a just a resources to work on this . What can we as this committee do or congress do to try to help you with this . One of the things the mistake is working on right now is what would a legislative response look like that would allow us again not in a sneaky way but with Court Process to get access to the evidence. Its complicated because it involves both Communications Carriers and device makers but i think ultimately it will require some sort of legislative fix that if you want to do business in this country we are about the rule of law. We dont want to great spaces that are beyond the reach of the law and the United States. There so safe deposit box the cant be open without authority. Theres no car trunk they cant be opened with authority. We are getting to place beyond the reach of Course Authority had things going to take a legislative fix. If i understand you its really not a matter of resources but its really just a legislative fix over all that really needs to be dealt with . Thats right. We as a democracy need to figure out what are the tradeoffs associate with a privacy interest and one of the Public Safety interest and how do we reconcile them . Is really, really hard but its not splitting an atom. We do our stuff and i think its a conversation we have to have. Thank you. Thank you mr. Chairman. That was a great question. Talk to us are privy for griffey about the court case, Supreme Court recently where the phone was seized part of a routine Police Arrest and the police picked up the phone and looked at it and the guy said you cant look at the talk to us about the case and whether theres anything cant apple see whats on your under court order . Couldnt you get from apple . The. The iphone six design comes to the apple is unable to unlock it. So it becomes a safe deposit box with no second key. And i cant get into. A judge can order access to it. So its very, very speedy let me that, if i understand him apple voluntarily made this decision to fix it so the user is able to lock it and theyre not able to thats correct. Apple, im not trying to pick on the folks at apple or google. Their view is they are responding to competitive pressures. People want to have a zone of privacy, and so do i. But that is a privacy that is outside the reach of the law is very concerning. Mr. Chairman with respect to the court case the fbi our practicespractice has a thing against search warrant for devices the that makes good sense to be especially given i dont have a phone with a but all of our lives are there. Its the bumper just a fun. Its a suitcase that is gingrichs picture and to document. Is good sense to me in the Supreme Courts reasoning that this is different than it used to be. Shouldve Fourth Amendment applications. Thats the way we treat it. If i want to look at your phone without your consent i will go to a judge to make a showing of probable cause, get a court order and if i can get the phone open to look at it. The challenge our inability access it even with a court order. If i could follow up one more question. Has there been, have you heard theres a rumor that apple has made an agreement with china about this as a precondition to selling their phone to their . I dont know anything about that. Thank you. Judge carter has dealt with this quite a bit of a District Court judge. Mr. Chairman . I recognize the gentleman from texas. [inaudible] there is a way forward, right right . If life or liberty is in jeopardy i want you to get into the phone. If its a matter that does involve life or liberty, im interested in what the founders would have just about right to privacy. So are you telling me, we can find out our report and i think the director is great fmap need to the latest activity because the people who represent some interest in privacy, which is why these companies are trying to produce a product that gives them that privacy but we also need to protect Public Safety. So it is a terrorist who has got a bomb and you need to track where they are through the cell phone, we want to go to do it. We have to find the wisdom of solomon which is good why the judge is up next. Im chairman of homeland could appropriations. I served on defense defense subcommittee. We have all the National Defense issues cyber. And now on this wonderful committee so cyber is down to me from every direction. And every time i hear something, i dont think about this stuff. If they can do that to a cell phone why cant they do that every computer in the country and nobody can get into it . If thats the case isnt that a solution to the invaders from around the world who try to get in . If that gets to be the wall even the law cant penetrate it, then art we creating an instrument [inaudible] this is interesting conundrum that is developing into law. If they at their own will at microsoft can put something in or apple, can put something in that computer which is what it is, for nobody but the owner can open it then why cant they put in the big giant supercomputers that nobody but that owner can open it . And everything gets locked away secretly. That sounds like a solution to this great cyber attack problem weve got, but in turn it allows those who would do harm to have a great tool to do harm or Law Enforcement get reach a. This is a problem thats got to be solved. If you were following the bill of rights you have every right to be able to go before a judge can present your probable cause as he sees it get a board and get into that machine. I dont think theres a right of privacy issue in the world that prevents you following the law to do that. If thats what they created, they have created a monster that will harm Law Enforcement National Security and Everything Else in this country. This really needs to be addressed. I wasnt able to talk about that that, you know, because i dont think thats right spent judge, if i could ask you about, and try for you can pitch in if you have a case in front of you were yet evidence that there was evidence of a crime any say that was locked and only the owner had the combination to the safe, how would you handle that . If they bring in an affidavit with probable cause and i find that probable cause, we will issue give them the right to make a search. If you have made it a search proof, and you cant even come even the guy who created the monster cant get in there thats bad policy. Theres no safe like that in the world. Spin you can get a court order go crack the safe. Thatssafe. Thats right. But he cant crack the safe, which is what they have created here, thats a real crisis if the analogy seems about it is like a safe locked up that is holding evidence. Those issues of privacy are protected by the bill of rights. Great question. Spin i knew we would find wisdom from the judge. The question i would ask to the chair to the administrator is this, that if you get a court order, the court ruled would be a court order for hardline you hard line you get a court order for tapping the line. Under fisa we cannot get a court order to tap into information that is used with the phone. Accessing information and digital phone that has what we might want to call our intelligence also accessing that would be like accessing a person under oath getting information they might have been cited and. So we may have to look at the kind of legislation that equates with our intelligence and try to access our own privacy. So the would be a sanction if we lie under oath, and if we have a choice now of opening up our own phone and even if the company cant do that, i would just try to make speed i unyielding my time. Let him talk. Hes a nice guy. Im trying to make a distinction between the kinds of laws that we right or we offer in one set of technology. We are looking at Artificial Intelligence and were looking at another kind of the children were region make us safe our own information accessing that is going to have to have another kind of another level of thought like we had to do with accessing and tapping into technology. A safe is still the old technology. I think [inaudible] if you have access to a phone that the individual who bought it can open up that he can have certain kinds of forced a law that would require them to testify. Its an interesting question. Forgive us, judge i just wanted to raise that. Its a really interesting conversation that was hard and im glad to get the judges wisdom on this. The other push is on to ask you last time we were here you said one of the things you consider that is am i going to be able to get in the workforce the quality of people that they need in this cyberwar we are facing how are you doing on being able to recruit the intelligent workforce that it takes to go in a special area of National Security and crime . How effective have you been since our last conversation . One of the things expressed the last time you hear and i wanted to get give you a chance to say how effective you been and what can we do to make you more effective . Thanks, judge. Pretty good but it is too early for me to give you a high confidence we. Ive been climbing out of my hole from sequestration soviet been hiring lots and lots of people. So far so good and i are staying. Want to get into Public Service it becomes addictive come even if other companies are throwing a lot of dough at you. My Cyber Division attrition rates are very low. Folks are getting in realizing its fun to do good for a living. But its early. I do want to sound overconfident. We should talk again in a year when i have a full say two years of data on this is not only the issue youve got that whole plenty to do is look at this issue. One of the questions that is, for us to discuss is what are the opportunities to contract these people who have these firms that all they do is this kind of work and maybe is this something that government can do effectively and safely taking government interest to subcontract some of the work so the great computer wizards of our world . Thats something we need to be thinking about. We are looking at right now in Homeland Security is whether or not that is a safe and appropriate thing to do to subcontract. Thats something you might think about. I was in a room full of smart people yesterday morning for breakfast, and about every fifth word i understood. Thank you. Thank you, judge. Its a complicated. Its an accredited complex universe of computers out there. Let me recognized the state of washington. Thank you. I have three pieces here and dont make them as brief as possible. I appreciate your time. Im going to start with im going to start a different track and come back to cyber because why not mix it up . Actually this does have a relation. In your submitted testimony you mentioned the internet facilitated Sexual Exploitation of children as an evolving threat that your agency is faced with