Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20240620

If i cannot give you the source and method would you prefer i dont govern you the information . I think it would be best for all concerns if when you make an allegation like that you are able to back it up with more than i say so. That is not what i said. It isnt because i said so. You get up at the u. N. Counsel and secretary gets up on sunday making allegations and your evidence to back it up appears to fall short of proof. I cannot remember the rest. They are firing artillery to attack ukrainian military. Did you believe rockets, missiles, over whatever fired from russian territory took down the two ukrainian planes or do you not have conformation that happened we are looking into exactly what brought into the planes. Are you sure . You are sure the planes wept down . We dont make determinations until we have facts. Yes, but you are sure the russians are firing artillery . We have information, yes. Coming up on cspan2. Two astronauts testify to a house science, space and technology committee. And then the Senate Foreign relations hears from the state department about the ongoing violence in iraq. And later kt talks about foreign with a policy. We talk to two astronauts board the International Space station. They testify about their research and experiments they are conducting. Lamar smith, texas congressman, shares the hearing. We will go on and start because time and the astronauts wait for no one. The down link is going to begin promply at 11 20 and we have a number of thing toes do between now and then. We will speak with nasa astronauts Steve Swanson and reid wiseman on board the International Space station. The station is in orbit 260 miles above us and it is travelling at 17,000 miles per hour. For over 13 years nasa astronauts for lived and worked on the station. It is roughly the size of a football field including the end zones. It has more livable space than a five bedroom house and six astronauts live there. Two americans, three russians and one european. Steve swanson and reid wiseman will speak to us from the destiny lab where they are conducting experiments on weightlessness and space. We can develop new medications that make their way into the commercial products we use opearo on earth. It has impacted our economy and improved our way of life. To the microships used in our car to zein screens on our ipad. Space inspires future generations to dream big and work hard. Astronauts serve as rolem model to inspire students to study math, science and engineer. And they keep the economy strong and make sure america remains globally competitive. But space is more about things that improve our lives on earth. Our accomplishments in space remind americans of their accomplishments. Many americans remember where they were 40 years ago when apollo landed on the moon. The first footprints were used by americans and the United States should always lead the way in Space Exploration. It encourages us to seek answers to questions about life, our existence and the meaning of it all. We can thank nasa and the Johnson Space center in houston, texas and here at their Head Quarters in washington, d. C. For their hard work in making this down link possible. After todays event there is a show case of iss Research Presented by nasa and the biomedical institute. They are leading the way in microgravity research. It will be next door in room 2325 down the hall. Go take a look and listen to the round table discussion held. I will now recommend ms. Johnson for her Opening Statement. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Let me welcome to audience and our former chairman of the committee mr. Gordon that just came in. I am looking forward to hearing from the astronauts about life on the International Space station and the challenges and opportunities they face. I hope that we can follow todays event with a formal hearing at a later date that will allow a more comprehensive investigation of the International Space station and its utilization for research. This past weekend the 45th anniversary of the first humans on the land was a bold achievement. As was the recent assembly of the present situation. It depend ons the past and present members of the astronauts core. Inspite of the risk they face the name of silence and exploring. The road to completion was a long one, but the International Space station stand as one of the emerging marvels of modern age and a testament to american perseverance. It has stood the test of time providing longterm space partnerships. It has grade value for your young people and you see many of them here. As evidence by the intense interest of our students and talking to the orbiting astronauts and developing science projects that may fly on the station. I have lots of interest. But the stark reality this is a parishable commodity and the future is now. I welcome the president s proposal to extend the International Space station operations to at least 2024, we need to make sure the years available are used effectively to answer the research and engineering questions that can only be answered on the International Space station. I would like to make one more point. If we want to ensure that the International Space station carries out the needed research and Technology Activities in a timely and productive fashion we have to be willing to make the needed investments. The International Space Station Research budget is stagnating and the agencys life and microgravity science budget has been cut deeply over the past decade. The appropriated funding for biological and physical research in fiscal year 2014 accounts for less than 3 of the total International Space station funding. Clearly this is a Situation Congress can and must rectify. I look forward to the down link and the opportunity to hear from the astronauts today. I thank you and yield back the balance of our time. I am going to introduce the astronauts. Steve swanson joined nasa as a Flight Engineer on the shuttle training aircraft in 1998. Later that year he was selected as a mission specialist. This is dr. Swanson third space flight. He received a bachelor of science and engineering in physics at the university of colorado and a masters from Florida Atlantic university and his doctor from texas a and m university. Reid wiseman began his career as a naval aviator. Commander wiseman was selected for the Astronauts Program in 2009 while deployed to the middle east. You may recognize him from the many twitter pictures he posted. He has over 160,000 followers. He earned his bachelor degree from the poly tech income and a masters from john hopkins university. Let me go to the mechanics and let me thank the members present for their interest and participation as well. We will do ow best to move through questions and answers as efficiently as possible. Questions for the astronauts today will alternate between the majority and minority and each side has ten minutes and each member has two minutes. To the extent members can be brief. We will not go over the 2 minute limit and all or more members will be able to ask questions otherwise there are few members. There is a hard fast 20 minute total and that is why ten minutes on each side. I have participated in down links in the past so i will forgo my question and hopefully allow more time for another member. We have a few minutes before we start the process. When you speak to the astronauts press your talk button, wait a couple seconds and then speak. You have to wait for the transmission to get to the station and back. Please turn the microphone off when you are finished and wait for the response. This is so the astronauts dont get feedback on their side. Most importantly, dont interrupt the astronauts when they are speaking. The delay doesnt allow back and forth conversations. Must be nice to be an naught astronaut and and not be interrupted. We are going to wait a few minutes for the down link to begin. We are going to have a pause here. This is dangerous to allow so much quite with so many members. So one is going to be recognized for jokes maybe i should say. We will have to be patient and wait for the down link and thank the members for being here and nice to see a full house in the audience here. This is a special occasion. I dont think this has been done in congress for many, many years and it is just a nice thing to witness firsthand. It is historic in lots of ways and i think the International Space station is our greatest engineering feat and we will it and the astronauts in action. With that we will be quite. Mr. Chairman this is exactly what i was worried about. Former chairman hall can entertain us with a few stories from the great state of texas. Well you could not give me enough time. Thank you, ralph. We will wait just a minute. This is Mission Control houston, please call station for a voice check. How do you hear me . We have you loud and clear. The gentlemen from california is recognized for a quick question. I appreciate this opportunity to ask you a direct question. You may have seen the movie called gravity that dealt with the whole idea of space debris. I was woundering if you tell us about the challenge and how the space station deals with that. Good question, congressman. Yes, we do worry about space debris up here. A couple nights ago we realized there was going to be a piece of debris here us. We are out of harms way within a few hours after it is executed. People on the ground monitor where everything is and they know where the debris is and where we are and they can track that. Ms. Johnson, Ranking Member of the committee, is recognized. Thank you very much. And greetings to commander wiseman and dr. Swanson. There is a a lot of excitement on this end watching. You i would like you to comment on the aspects of the International Space Station Program that is most important in enabling humans beyond the earth orbit. I dont want to take your entire day up. I could talk about this subject forever. It is getting humans up here and having us live up here for six months at a time and in over a year scott kelly will be up here for an entire year. It is all of the things that happen to the human body and what space craft needs to provide for us like oxygen, water, food, supplies and running this machine over six month and a year at a time is what we will need when we go to mars and spend 23 years in space. We need to test this now on the space station so that in a decade we go head on the mars and have a successful journey. Mr. Hall is recognized. Thank you for linking our committee to the two astronauts. I remember the debate on june 23ered 1993 in chis committee and room when they came within one vote of killing the space station we thought forever. Our argument made on behalf of the space station was providing something tangible children can dream about. So i will ask a simple question, how do you think the space station has inspired young people and can you give us examples of how you engage Young Children and inspire them to pursue s. T. E. M. Education . What would you say is the space stations greatest legacy . I agree with you tremendously about the s. T. E. M. Program. One thing i did before getting here was worked on spears with students in the local high school and that is the experiment we have. And the kids get to program the spears and satellites that float around here and they have competitions and when they got their Program Running on the station they got so excited about science and technology. It was fantastic. Ms. Edwards is recognized. Thank you very much. I have to tell you i am so excited i wish i could be you when i grow up. My question and greetings to reid wiseman, a fellow m marylander. I wonder if you could tell us we will freeze package crab cakes for you i wonder if you could tell us the importance of the work that you do and how you are inspired to join this Space Program . What inspired you because i think it is a challenge for us to figure out what inspires the next generation of explorers. That is a great question. I think back to my childhood when the Space Shuttle was being developed and launched. I was around 6 years old at the time and i remember a 747 flying over maryland and my parents and i went up to the top of the hill to watch the Space Shuttle fly over and that image is burned into my mind and that started the course i was on to become not only a Navy Test Pilot and then astronaut. So we never know hat little thing as adults that is going to spark a childs mind and it was a simple airplane with a Space Shuttle well that is not simple, but it was the act of being with my parents and that is what sparked by imagination. So just exposing the kids to the s. T. E. M. World in motion you never know when you will spark their imagination and i am sure we are doing it every day. The gentlemen from mississippi is recognized. Thank you for talking to us. Hopefully the chairman of the full committee will allow us to have a congressional trip to the space station in the near future. I have a question for you from a voter in south mississippi. How do you deal with the so solitude during your duration . We look to look at the window of this beautiful planet is one thing we like to do. We look down on earth and it is fantastic and that is what keeps us going; looking at our beautiful planet. The gentlemen from california mr. Peters is recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman and hello, gentlemen. I have a question from the committeement we struggle with how to maintain the lead in science. I wonder what your perspective is on how important Space Exploration is in maining our lead in science. Certainly it is right at the cuttingedge. This is one of our many pieces, i guess, in the overall u. S. Portfo portfolio of leading the revolution. Just off the screen to the right there is the arm of robonot and he was out last night to do upgrades and we will bring it up and get it in full operation maybe with set of legs down the road. The work we do are is on the cutting edge but that is one small piece of what is going on and a lot of it is thanks to government funding and pumping money into the research that is critical for the nation not just five years down the road but 50 and a 100. The gentlemen from alabama mr. Brooks and recognized. I am from alabamas Fifth District the home of the marshal space flight center. As a child i grow up feeling the saturn five rocket tested and i remember apollo 11 when they declared one small step for man and one giant leap for mankind. My question is what mission should americas Space Program next embark on to be the next giant leap for mankind . Yes, i believe we should get ourselves to mars. I know it is difficult to get there but i believe we can do it. And this is one of the first blocks we have to do learn how to live in space and recycle everything we need to from air, water and grow our own food and reduce the mount of supplies with us and create a robust syst system. We are starting it off. Going to mars is our main goal. The gentlelady from massachusetts is recognized. Good evening. I have questions from students at the cambridge, massachusetts camp. How do you pack . What is the temperature . What fuel do you use to support the Space Shuttle . And has anyone had a birthday . If so, how did you celebrate . Okay. So, we pack in a very, very small suit case about that big and we get 1. 5 kilograms. We use kerosene and oxygen to get up here and once we are on the station we have a hyperbolic fuel mix that keeps us here bite dont burn engines very often. And he had a russian crew mate who had a birthday and we gathered around that table, all six of us, and share european food, russian food, juices, and join together to have a great evening. I dont think there were any presents to unwrap but i think he was happy enough. So it was a great event. The gentlemen from florida, mr. Posey is recognized. Sometimes it is hard for americans to understand why human Space Exploration is so important. Can you talk about how the work you are doing now benefits americans . What are you up to . There are a few different y ways to look at that question. Scientific Aspect Research from burning ways to learn how fire work and the details part of it. We do medical research up here. Through Station Research we have come up with ways to get chemo therapy to targeted areas of the body easier. And humans are meant to explore and this is one path to take. It full fills the idea for humans. This is a grate investment also. It creates money for the country, good tr the economy and creates a better world for all of us. The gentlemen from washington is recognized thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you for being with us. I am two questions that came from the young gentlemen behind me. One is trying to get a sense more of how the space station plays into the effort to go to mars and a little more specific about what the utility is of the space station. And he also wants to know as we look out into the this century what is on the horizon and what other frontiers do you think we will visit and how many other planets will we discover . Is that right . All right. Well, lets start with the end question. How many planets. Limitless. It depends on how good the c etchine censtores a censtores get. When you look tup up at the stars think about there is a galaxy around that. If we go to mars, it will be a three year journey and if you have one system break, and that could bow be your heart, muscle and bones or our engines or solar rays but any piece falls apart and you lost your mission to mars. This is the test bed and where we start the fundamental tackles and blockings to get to march. We are seeing successful results. Our water balance is almost at 9 9 90 . We recycle our urine into water and everything is recycled up here. And i hope that covers enough of your questions. The gentlemen from texas, mr. Stockman. Thank you for having this broadcast today. I appreciate you what you are doing and proud of the country and support of you. Some of you might know it isnt universal support. What would you tell my colleagues why they should be supportive of your efforts and why we should vote three times the amount of money we are supporting . Or four times . I dont care. I would be happy with twice. That is a really good question. It goes back to what do we provide for the taxpayer. Research and development for one. Now products, new ideas, new research, new science and that always helps the country in the future, 1015 years down the road. It is better for the economy. We get that we inspire the new generation and gets them to be productive and help out and make the country stronger and we explore and that helps the whole human race. The gentlemen from california. Hello, and my questions come from the bay area and i have three young inspiring astronauts with question. Shale daily, phoebe bronze and julia warren. The first question is commander wiseman, what is your favorite food in space . And for dr. Swanson, do you think one day we will encounter life from another planet . You go first. Okay. I am a food lover. But there is one particular food they know when they open the desert box all chocolate pudding cake goes to my locker. I am hoarding it. I cannot get enough stuff of it. I tried it on earth and i didnt like it but something about the cake i am in love with. And i will pass to dr. Swanson. I have to say yes. As reid pointed out so many planets and possibilities i figure sometime it will happen. The gentlemen from arizona is recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. A texan on my staff says howdy. What have you found on what has surprised you on what is robust, held up quite well on the space station . And what have you found that is fragile that you see we will have to do future reengineering of . So i would lead that off with this is my first space flight and i have known the space station many years. We are into our 5,000 plus day of ops up here and one of the first things that struck me was i expected to see an aging system when i arrived and i expected it, well from the tv maybe it looks messy, but every wire has a purpose. And when i got up here i realized this is a brilliant laboratory. It is in amazing shape and very well cared for a testament to the engineering that went in and the robustness of the design. We have been operating 5,000 days and it looks like a brand new machine up here. Some things that are not quite as reliable and surprised me a little is you get to see how quickly technology on earth develops when you come up here. This was developed in the 80s and 90s and you see ethernet cords and we flew up tablets. So building on the technologies as we go overtime has been a surprise. You can see the evolution of technology up here and that is something in future designs i dont know how you account for that but it is something we will have to look for. The gentle lady is recognized the students want to know what they can best do to become astronauts of the future . Well, of course, it goes with study hard. You have to do well in school that is a given. And find something you are really passionate about in life. It helps if it is science, technology or engineering to get this job. Find an area you are passionate about, do it well, and that will show when you go to become an astronauts. That is what they are looking for someone who is passionate about what they do. Unfortunately, we are out of time and the astronauts are out of time. We want to thank you for spending 20 minutes with us today and we look forward to supporting you in the future and we will talk again. [ applause ] 25 down the hall for the s w showcase on the iss hardware and research on nasa. Thank you for being here. This was a special event. on the next washington journal we will focus on Foreign Policy with republican representatives scott ridgeal of virginia, a member of the Armed Services and bung budget committees. And joined by a representative from california to discuss immigration. She is the Ranking Member of the judiciary subcommittee on border security. Washington journal is live every day at 7 a. M. Eastern. Join the conversation on facebook and twitter. Next month on indepth, former republican congressman from texas and president ial candidate, ron paul. Join the conversation as he takes your calls, emails and tweets sunday august 3rd. And Mary Francis Berry after that. Television for serious readers. Booktv. State Department Official just returned from iraq warned that the militant group isis represents a threat worst than alqaeda. He testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee about the ongoing violence in the country and u. S. Options in the region. New jersey senator bob menendez chairs the committee. Good morning. The hearing comes to order. Today we focus on iraq and u. S. Policy options but to fully examine the crisis in iraq we must talk about the developments in the region. I held a hearing on the syria conflict to look at the continued violence in syria and how it would impact the security of neighboring countries l. We are seeing the dangerous spillover with isis and the dissolution between a real border of syria and iraq and the caliphate that is creating a vacuum in the middle east. The hearing will not focus specifically on the regional threat of isis, i want to state the position that we must enhance our support to the moderate syrian oppositions. The only ones willing to challenge isis and alqaeda. It seems supporting the modern forces must be one pillar in the region. No one should be surprised that iraq is the victim of the spillover but we should be concerned by the expansion of their involvement in iraq and we can be dismayed by the iranian in t interest aaespecially in iraq. They the they this is about a rogue government that is keeping people apart. Iraq doesnt have to proceed down the path and it is up to iraqs leaders to chart a different course for their country. I am deeply disappointed that after years of United States investment of time and resources the loss of thousands of american lifes and the commitment of billons of doctors to create a responsibility, capability, Iraqi Security force that they deserted the communities they were responsible for protecting, abandoned u. S. Equipment and fled from isis fighters. At the same time, isis expansion across iraq and the sunni committees and tribes wouldnt have been possible without the accumulation of years of corrupt policies in baghdad. Iraq has the potential to be an economically prosperous model for others in the region but the iraq leaders have been focused on their own interest to too long. The time is now for the leaders of iraq form a government that is representative. I applaud them for nominating a deputy speecher for the parliament and todays announcement that a president has been named. Leaders are committed to leading for iraq for all iraqis. The department of defense completed the assessment of Iraqi Security forces and i look forward to hearing from our administration witness on the findings provided by the u. S. Ad visors and plans going through to fight isis. Let me take a moment to highlight the dangerous situation of minority communities in iraq and particularly iraqi christians. I joined a senator in a meeting with an archbishop from the dioscease of herbal. And he said what is happening in truly horrifying and i hope the witnesses share the steps the administration is taking to address the urgent need of iraqi christians. They have asked for several letters be submitted to the record regarding the ply of iraqi christians. I want to acknowledge that the iraqi ambassador to the United States is in attendance today and we welcome him here. I received a letter from the ambassador following our meeting a few weeks ago asking that congress and the administration make the u. S. Commitment to iraq clear by providing support and assistance to turn the tide against isis, if the Iraqi Government takes steps to broad n their Political Base and eccelerate the formation of the government. Without objection i will submit to the congressional record and i hope to hear from Witnesses Today whether or not they believe iraqi leaders are capable of forming a government. What is retired to turn the tide against isis and if there is a new government in baghdad what should do to show support . With that, mr. Corker. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank the witnesses for being hire. Isis now controls mosul, the second largest city and other areas. Isis is outnumbered but they managed to overwhelm entire divisions of the iraq army, many of whom removed their uniform and ran. Isis claimed credit for bombings in baghdad and persecuting christians where thousands are being forced to flee their homes under penalty of death if they dont convert and pay a tax. Last month was the deadliest in iraq with 2400 iraqis killed, 2 3rds of which were civilians. For those of us here over the debate of the benefits of the surge this is hardly an outcome that would have been imagined back then. Our intelligence picture in iraq is woefully in accurate, but we are not surprised. The crisis is connected to the crisis in syria when your country ignored. Isis agents have long enjoyed freedom of moving around and were in control of certain areas for months prior to the takeover of mosul. Maliki has shredded the entire process creating a more secretarian institution that scares the average iraqi as much as isis. Despite the connection from syria it is important to note this isnt just an invasion of fighters. They could not control this much areas without help on the ground. Rather we can look at this as a civil and secretarian war being exploited by a growing terrorist threat. This is another signal of how badly Prime Minister maliki has alienated the sunni committees. Even if maliki leaves no mount of military support can make a difference. But if we dont help the Iraqi Government survive and hold territory now there is a possibility we will not be discussing political reconcilation in a few months because the country could break apart. I hope we can confront the dilemma head on and help get the country back on the right track. I am open to working with the administration to determine what we can do as a nation to shore up the defenses of the iraqis and its leaders. I want to thank you for being here and i look forward to the hearing and us weighing in on what we believe is the most appropriate steps forward. Thank you very much. Thank you, senator corker. With us today is deputy assistance secretary of state for iraq and iran. He returned from a sixweek trip to iraq. And the Principle Deputy under secretary of defense for policy her experience in iraq rages from the Intelligence Community to the council to the state department and now the Defense Department. Let me remind you that your full statements are included in the record and i will ask you to summarize them for about five minutes or so so the members of the committee can engage in a dialogue with you. We will start with you, mr. Secretary. Thank you for inviting us to discuss the situation in iraq with a focus on the u. S. Response since mosul has been attacked several weeks. Isis is alqaeda. They may have changed their name and broken with senior alqaeda leadership but it is alqaeda in its doctrine, ambition and threat to u. S. Interest. Should there be questions about the intention of the group read watt the leader says and it is important to Pay Attention to what he says because we cannot risk of underestimating the goals and capacity of this administration. He talked about the death of bin laden and promised a response. He issues threats against the United States regularly promising a direct confrontation and he is seeking to lead the global jihad. Isil is no longer a terrorist organization. It is now a fullblown army seeking to establish a full blown state in what is now syria and iraq. It controls much of eastern syria. In january, it moved into iraq taking control of areas and on june 10th it moved on mosul. I arrived in mosul on june 7th and i will start there. We received information they were moving from syria into iraq and staging forces in western mosul. We asked for permission from leaders to deploy troops on the eastern side but the governor of baghdad didnt feel the sense of urgency and refused. On june 9th, the situation was tense and we continued to urge the immediate deployment of Security Forces to protect from an isil attack from west to east. They launch ad suicide bomb across the bridge and Iraqi Resistance collapsed. The result was catastrophic. Five divisions dissolved. I flew to baghdad to ensure people were save and working with the iraqis to make sure northern approaches to baghdad were bolstered. He made concern our people were safe, including contractors who were evacuated with the iraqi airforce help. At the embassy and airport we e rebalanced staff and brought in additional security. We worked to improve our intelligence picture throughout western and North Central iraq and establishing joint Operation Center and forces to assist iraqi units around the capital. They were taken with regional diplomacy led by secretary kerry to focus attention on the serious threat. We recognized this took place following National Elections in which 14 million iraqis voted but prior to forming a new government. A few speaker of parliament was chosen last week and he is a moderate sunni who was elected with overwhelmingly support. Today, the new Iraqi Parliament elected the next president of iraq and he was elected with support from all components in the elected parliament. They are now choosing a Prime Minister which must happen within 15 days. As the president said, it isnt the place of the United States to chose iraqs leaders. It is clear that only leaders that govern with an inclusive agenda will pull the country together and guide the iraqi people through the process. Isil remains in control of mosul and it is target all iraqis who disagree with its twisted view of a 7th century caliphate. Going forward, the iraqis with our support must seek to split the latter groups from isil and isolate isil from the population. The platformed we have established are providing Additional Information to inform the president and the security them. Any further decisions in this regard will be made with this committee and the congress. Any efforts we make must be to help isolate isil from the population. Iraq has a serious Counter Insurgency challenge. Based on my seven weeks on the ground, substantiate reforms must be taken and this requires a new government and an emergency concensus we canport is a federalism based on the reality on the ground and the principles. Local citizens must be in the lead, they must be provided state benefits and supports like a national guardtype structure, third the iraqi army must be restructured. Commanders who failed in mosul have been fired and hired new and they should protect borders and rarely deploy inside cities and provide support when necessary. Forth principle, close operation between local, regional and national leaders. And the federal government through a parliament and cabinet must work on reforms that can address grievances from all communities and ensure adequate resources to the restructured services. They can address many of the sunni majority areas of iraq and denying space for isil to operate and protect the shitte majority and other groups. It will require smart prevention approach led by a new Iraqi Government. Iraqi leaders from all communities have asked for assistance to implement this program. And we are on the ground to assess the situation and discuss concrete ways in which our system might be affective. This model is achievable. I look forward to discussing your questions and thank you for your opportunity to testify this morning. Thank you. Chairm chairman. Appreciate the opportunities to discuss the administrations response to the current security situation and my remarks focus on what the department of defense is particularly doing. I want to foot stomp some of the things that brett said. The United States does have a Vital National security interest making sure that iraq, or any other country, doesnt become a save haven for terrorist who could threaten the u. S. Homeland, citizens or interests broad. As the president said, isils advance and its ability to establish a save haven poses a threat to the United States and the middle east. I dont restrict to just iraq. I believe we have a regional problem on our hand. The situation on the ground is complex and fluid. We are taking a responsible, deliberate and flexible approach to the crisis chat. I want to be clear there is no military solution to the threat posed by isil. The department of defense remains postured. Our immediate goals are to one our people and property in iraq. To gain a better understanding of how we might train, ad vise and support the iraq Security Forces, should we decide to do that. And number three, expand our understanding particularly our intelligence of isil. All three are critical to strategy for iraq. We have added forces to protect our people. The safety of our citizens is our highest priority. The department met the request of the department of state as we have transmitted the department of defense sent what is called a fleet antiterrorism team, a Crisis Response unit, additional assets and personal to reinforce security at the baghdad diplomatic facility and the baghdad airport. And we put ships into the arabian gulf and that is added to other ships including the uss storage bush and provides the president additional options to protect the United States and iraq should we use them. Em. Number two, we have. Vastly increased our Intelligence Surveillance and reconnaissance isr assets. At the request of the government of iraq, we surged isr over iraq since the fall of mosul and increased our information sharing activities. These isr sorties which are up to 50 plus per day give us a much better understanding of isil operations and disposition and allow us to help help the isf counter isil. Were now capable of around the clock coverage of iraq and have been focusing our efforts on isil controlled territory and baghdad. We also sent in u. S. Assessment teams and stood up we have sent in u. S. Assessment team sense that a joint Operation Centers. On june 19 the president announced these additional measures including the deployment of just about 300 additional u. S. Military advisers to evaluate how we might best trained advice and support the isf. These small teams of special forces are working to evaluate the isf in and around baghdad in particular. The teams are armed for selfdefense but they do not have enough sense of mission. And then the two joint Operation Centers one in baghdad when an herb bill in Northern Iraq have been established to support efforts on the ground. A quick word about the assessment. I know thats of interest. Secretary hagel and chairman dempsey received a draft assessment of the isf last week from central command. Apartment is undertaking a deliberate and rigorous review of the assessment which will inform recommendations to the president. Meanwhile additional assessment work continues as you heard general austin is on the ground today with respect to the developing situation the ground in closing i want to reiterate that we have a vital security interest in iraq or any other country now become become a safe pace and say payson safe haven for terrorists and i look forward to your questions. Thank you craig during yesterdays hearing with the House Foreign Affairs committee you both argue the policy of the United States should be for a unified iraq with a strong baghdadbased federal government. But many look and say thats what is happening on the ground is accelerating towards a breakup of iraq because so many iraqi communities no longer trust the maliki government and the question question whether there is anything we can do to prevent it. Thank you mr. Chairman. I think we testified clearly in my written statement as well, the model is a functioning federalism under the iraqi constitution so nobody is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. This simply wont work. There is a model within the constitution for this functioning federalism of which you recognize the evolution of authorities and that is something that i found in my last seven weeks there is an emerging consensus around. The process of forming a government i think the details will be fleshed out and i know general austin is discussing the concept as we speak particularly when it comes to restructuring Security Forces. I dont think anyone is trying to create a strong Central Government that will retake control over the country and about everybody recognizes now from the center out you are not going to be able to retain control in all parts of the country but also most importantly locals and tribes on their own also will not be able to denounce space for isil because of their significant military. With a National Resource base and that is all within the federalist model of the constitution. The question is though, okay so the federalist model but the question is can even get to a federalist model when things are evolving in iraq lacks. I think he can. What needs to happen . First we have to get a government informed and thats very important because the new government will obviously be the body that directs. What do we envision the timeframe to be . Under the constitutional framework and the timelines as soon as theres a new president , there is now 15 daytime i could charge a Prime Minister to form a government so we will now within 15 days the Prime Minister nominee. Whoever that is he then has 30 days to name a cabinet the cabinet to parliament for a vote. Those timelines can be substantially accelerated. For example under the constitution once there was a speaker they have 30 days to name a president and they did that and i think about eight days and we are working hard to accelerate those timelines. Now if it ends up being Prime Minister maliki how do you think that you keep this government together, this nation together . As i mentioned in my statement and is the president said is not our job to pick the leaders but the leaders have to have an inclusive agenda and public country together. Im not asking you to suggest we should. The question is that if that is the result by their own choice it seems to me that it is very difficult based upon what has happened so far based upon sunni responses to isis at least in the context of their grievances with the president and National Government that isnt the likely outcome of that to be more possible to see a divided iraq . The Prime Minister will be chosen from the geopolitical blocks and grand ayatollah sistani interestingly over the last month has been very active. He has laid down some guidepost for how to form the next government. First it has to correct the mistakes of the past meaning it cant look anything like the current government. Second you need new leaders that reflect a national consensus. We have had that now with the speaker and the president and so the Prime Minister will also have to reflect that emerging national consensus. That remains to be seen whether the existing Prime Minister could build such a consensus that there reminds very much a question. You commented in the house hearing yesterday that options being developed for the president are more concrete and specific as a result of the u. S. Military advisers on the ground and an increased intelligence. What guidance have you received in terms of timing for these decisions and how it will be political and security conditions on the ground influence the president s decisions . Sa said the assessment came in last week. They are dense. They are significant and so we are still working through those. After we have done that the president , im sorry the secretary and the chairman will make informed recommendations to the president. Are you going to be able to tell us any more than i read the New York Times . I. Which is more than i knew when i came you came here. I would caution against using a half late report in the basis of understanding it. The absence of having information leads me to publica reported resources so when do you intend to come to us in whatever setting to advise this committee has jurisdiction over arms sales in my reticence to arms sales to iraq as in some respects been proven true when in fact we have had much of our equipment abandoned and now in the hands of isis so unless you are going to give us a sense of where the Security Forces are at moving forward this chair is not going to be willing to approve or arms sales so they can be abandoned to go into the hands of those who we are seriously concerned about in terms of our National Security. Sir i understand in our intent is to come and brief congress at the time when we have piled through it ourselves. We have kept the congress very informed. I know i have been up at least twice a week for our committees. We are committed to remaining in close contact with you and theres no attempt to hide it from you. I would just add mr. Chairman we are in a race against time, theres no question and one thing we have found first of all by searching special forces teams and intelligence we do an awful lot more than we did six weeks ago. Security forces around baghdad particular north of baghdad i describe this in my testimony are trying to do things to fight back. They have taken nearly 1000 casualties in the last month. These units particularly in affiliate relationships are fighting. They are capable and those are the types of units that are looking at ways to further assess that this is me and discussed by the National Security team. You have influences here. My understanding is assad has been part of the bombing of isis in iraq. Of course you have iran here. How is that going to complicate or instruct what you might be willing to do . It is part of the overall assessment and i can speak from my own firsthand experience. In the initial base of this crisis as a isis looked like he was moving down the tigris valley and our information is sketchy and there was panic throughout the Iraqi Security forces, and we had to bolster them to create a Circuit Breaker so so that advance halted. There was a security vacuum but theres no question our strategic competitor sought to step in and failed or lacks any capacity to do deep strikes in the border regions. Countries show up at their door and say hey we can help you at that. The iraqis have pushed back in some regards but in some respects they have accepted support. They have accepted assad bombing have they not . We have no indication they have coordination with the assad regime that they are very concerned about the collapse of their border particularly the collapse of the strategic border town which fell about three weeks ago. They have accepted iranian support . They have accepted lowlevel iranian support, theres no question, yes. Senator corker. Thank you mr. Chairman. Just along those lines, how do you assess u. S. Influence right now . I know there are a number of other regional interests that are playing a role. I know that those of us who have visited recently know that before this all occurred u. S. Influence was at an alltime low and really almost not president rate and all that is change some but where would you assess our influence to be in iraq right now . Senator since this crisis particularly in mosul we have been embraced particularly our military personnel who have come in. I was at the joint Operation Center which we have set up now. I was there on thursday speaking with their military personnel bear all of whom have years of experience with their relationships in iraq. We have been embraced by their military particularly the special forces assessment team. The iraqis have given us full access to their air space and give us the legal requirements we need to be there so we have been embraced. I think theres an opportunity because they certainly want our assistance. They want our equipment, they want our training. Our sms packages 15 billion total. They have paid 11 billion of that. They have pulled 190 billion dollars into the account best week so the iraqis are very eager under a strategic agreement for u. S. Assistance to be the backbone of their response but of course there are things they need to do as well and that is the conversation we are having with them. And other competing interests . As you are deepening the relationship again in helping in a way that we are are the complex are competing interests that you are dealing with there on the ground . Estimate that some of the tactics the iraqis pursued we totally dont agree with and in fact i think i moving in aggressively as we have over the last six weeks while while increasingly increased their influence over some of those tactics. We have advise the iraqis were example not to go into urban areas, lessons that we learn. The iraqis made a decision to go into tikrit and we didnt support that decision. We advise the iraqis in january not to go into fallujah and they have not gone into fallujah but theres military conversation which is a little bit outside my expertise and that is why general austin is on the ground as we speak talking to their military commanders and the point on our influence. I have had a number of conversations with the Prime Minister on down since january and have said your generals mr. Prime minister and not telling you the truth about the situation. That clearly was true particularly in mosul. Those commanders are now gone and they have appointed a series of new commanders who we happen to work closely with and we hope the type of relationship can continue. I think that kind of involvement that we had and that we lost where we were able to have to shovel diplomacy and have the kind of activity that is now taking place has helped create this situation is on the ground. No doubt on the other hand Prime Minister maliki has not been the kind of Prime Minister to create any kind of sense that a Central Government can resolve the ethnic and civil issues that exist there. Do you really believe in the bottom of your heart there is somebody in iraq in the shia sect that can do that as Prime Minister if we move through this process . Senator we have had extreme frustrations with the iraqi governing particularly over the last year and thats one reason we have focused most decisively on making sure elections happen, they happen on time and are credible. They have created a new parliament and through that parliament new leaders will emerge. There are a handful of very capable leaders who may emerge as the next Prime Minister of iraq but we will have have to see this unfold rapidly over the coming days. I know there was discussion between you and the chairman relative to the assessment taking place. Can you just broadly tell us of anything that you all learned over the last three weeks that you did not know prior to the assessment . Sure. I think when we put the assessors on the ground it was the biggest open question given the march isil crossed into most went down the status of baghdad and with it isil be able to defend baghdad. I think one of the early things that we saw as we got on the ground was there was a stiffening of the Iraqi Security forces in and around baghdad to protect the capital which we thought was critically important. We certainly werent aware until we got on the ground. I do think some of the early indications are frankly mixed. There are some very capable units that have high morale and that are willing and capable of fighting and there are other units where morale is lower where they may not be as much capability and willingness to actually fight. Its sorting out the details of that that we are working on right now. If you were to surmise after you do this assessment what do you think the range of options will be that will be presented to the president relative to our activities militarily in iraq . I think without crabbing ended any decisions based all of the military options we could consider have to fit into a much wider regional strategy. Thats not a lead by the military. Tell me about that means. I know you said that in your opening comments and i think most people on this committee have been concerned. We have very strong support for efforts in syria. Are you referring to syria and iraq . At syria and iraq given isils march but in particular may can sure we dont see a further spread. Jordan has been particularly a focus for us given the border area right there with iraq but this is part of the administrations attempt to create this Counterterrorism Partnership fund to shore up particularly the neighbors of iraq and syria to make sure that they have a flexible way to respond to the threats to make sure we dont see that spread and then to ask for funding for training that i did syrian moderate opposition so we have some sort of attempt from the inside of syria to secure those areas as well. Its impossible to just let the isl threat that iraq only because as i said yesterday its kind of like error to the loom. We need a comprehensive approach approach outside in and insideout. Its interesting you say that. I think people on this committee have been saying for a year and a half that when the time was right when we could have taken steps in syria that could have prevented this they were taken and so now its interesting that the administration is looking at a regional approach. Is that solely because now there is this counterterrorism issues that the situation has gotten so bad, it didnt have to but it hasnt gotten so bad that theres a threat to the homeland and thats the reason you are looking at a regional approach. What do you think it is that has taken so long with so many people crying out on both sides of the aisle, please do something relative to the moderate opposition in syria knowing that there is no border there, knowing that is destabilizing iraq. Is that this counterterrorism issue solely that is now causing via administration to look at it regionally . I think the administrations been looking at this regionally for a while. Has been looking at a . I dont think thats fair. They have invested heavily in serious for security and jordan. We have done programs of lebanon and on programs with turkey. This is not beginning from an new here but i do think the thing that surprised us frankly was the collapse of the Iraqi Security forces in and around mosul in four divisions essentially nothing way. If you would have asked me that a year ago i would not assess that and i think the spread of iysoll given the number of foreign passport holders that we know ive traveled back and forth from syria it does focus the mind. If i could ask one last question. Or make a statement. We had a really strong vote and a great debate on supporting the moderate opposition and i was glad to get the call and the white house is now looking at this 500 million in actual Defense Department support for these. I have to say and i have to say about that. I have finally gotten to the point where i question, i hate to say how effective thats going to be at this point. I think there was a point in time where it could have been really effective and i now question whether now at this point with all that has happened knowing that isi has taken such a large part of the territory in syria have questioned the effectiveness and if the really feels like that small amount at this late date still has a possibility to do real good in syria. Sir i think you cant fight something with nothing so i think its important to start. We have been doing that for a long time. So i agree with you and i think everybody here does. I guess the question is can you fight something with almost nothing at this point when it has festered into this type of a situation . We will have to move to senator boxer. I do think its important. We have put together a program that is scalable. You can start small and move up significantly in the numbers and scale of the program and we think its critical that we start. Senator boxer. Thank you. I look at things just a little bit differently than a lot of folks here. I think the iraqis had a chance of a lifetime and americas blood and treasure gave them that chance of a lifetime. A chance of unity, chance of peace and with their natural resources, a chance at a growing economy and clearly those of us minority of 23 who predicted this if we went to war, we did not prevail and thats life. You dont prevail so you move on and then later when then senator biden who is the chairman of this Committee Proposed more autonomy for the sunnis and for the kurds. Okaye by the way more than seven senators voted for that. The bush of administration laughed at it kind of like people laughed right now. Thats why im laughing. And that was turned away so the situation in iraq i think his dyer now and im not about to reinvest more lives and treasu treasure. The United States has sacrificed too much. The war cost us 2 trillion. People predicted it would be over in weeks, months. More than 4400 americans were killed and their families never the same. 32,000 wounded during the course of the war and we all know, and i pray senator sanders and mccain for battling to get help for those who are suffering with physical and mental injuries. So i am pleased that president obama said unequivocally American Forces will not be returning to combat in iraq and i want the record to show that i will never vote to send more combat forces in. You know you get so many chances in a lifetime. I want to ask you about the kurds, both of you. I dont know which one im either of you could answer. The kurds in Northern Iraq have long been a strong ally of United States and they have played an Important Role in countering the rapid advance of isis. When i went to iraq a long time ago the bullets were flying. The kurds, i found them to get what this was all about and there were so much prejudice against the kurds. The Kurdish Militia offered his support Iraqi Security forces when isis began its offensive in mosul. Kurdish forces have kept much of Northern Iraq out of terrorist hands. Kurdistan has become a destination for hundreds of thousands of iraqis fleeing from isis controlled territory and you know i have to say as i watch mr. Maliki, i dont think he appreciates it. As the iraqis continue to work to determine their future i am asking you what role can the kurds continue to play and should the United States acknowledged that the kurds should have a significant amount of autonomy . I think they have earned it and i wonder what the administrations position is visavis the kurds and more autonomy for the kurds . Thank you senator. We are in a very active conversation with all the kurdish leaders about their future. There are some realities that they are grappling with the ge geostrategic realities and the economic realities. They need 14 billion to sustain themselves operationally. They share the budget this year which is pending is about 17 billion. We think there is a deal there within the constitutional framework that is in the best interest of the kurds and also our interests both in Northern Iraq and iraq as a whole. However since this crisis began and we recognize we are dealing with new realities on the ground that we have to recognize and deal with we have established a joint Operation Center and are built to work with peshmerga. They are going to need some help. That will work most effectively if it is done in cooperation in court nation with baghdad of course for those providing a role where necessary. We are very active conversation with them. They have a good deal of good deal but tommy now and im sure they will ask more to the process and that will be done under the constitution. Vice president barzani has been on the front of number of times with our Vice President biden to talk about these issues. President barzani has made it clear to us he wants to add to the constitutional framework for resolving some of the disputed boundaries in which the peshmerga has moved by necessity over the last six weeks. The short answer you to your question is where an active conversation with the kurds about this and i will report you as it unfolds over the coming months. The United States will support more autonomy for the kurds i assume . Do the government information processor will be an active debate and i will just say we very much support the kurds on a particular critical issue. Baghdad for five months ago cut salaries of workers in the kurdish region and we have made clear that thats totally unacceptable and yesterday reversed. The kurds have also done something since cases in which we said that might exacerbate tensions in a way that wouldnt be constructive and that is why we are in a active conversation. We support autonomy than the constitutional framework certainly. Okay. Im just saying i dont know what the future is of the constitutional framework but we all hope it works. The last question is are you confident we have adequate personnel on the ground to truly protect our embassy and the americans in baghdad . Senator yes we have moved in substantial assets to the airport and into the embassy. I was just there as late as thursday and we are confident that our defensive parameters that our people will be safe. Her assistant secretary just visited baghdad last week to do his own assessment. We have also had teams on the team ground for some calm. This is an ongoing assessment and our intelligence assets have retired everything around the perimeter of the airport in our embassy are very well covered. Can you tell us how many people we have at the embassy or says something you dont want to discuss . We have a total of 2500 now. Thank you. Senator johnson. Thank you mr. Johnson. Mr. Mcgurk lets go back to the kurds. Ive been made aware of the fact that baghdadi government is basically in arrears on the current budget by 6 billion. Thats a pretty accurate . There are a lot of ways to do the accounting and the math. Baghdad claims the kurds owe them money and the kurds claim that baghdad owes them money and in that space is where the deal lies and i think that will be part of the conversation and reforming the government. If it is true that baghdad owes them as much as 6 million with u. S. Support the kurds ability to export oil and retain that revenue so they can keep themselves going . We want to get as much oil onto the International Markets as possible from all parts of iraq and not something we strongly support. We worked very hard over the last of six pounds to get a deal on the table by which the kurds would have exported as much oil as they could do some existing arrangements with the revenue sharing allocations that exists. That deal almost succeeded but ran up against the election timeframe and once you have an election is difficult to close a deal. I think we will be able to get that back on the table. What we want is north to south onto the International Borders as soon as possible. I appreciate the fact that we are studying the problem but you have to recognize reality before you develop a strategy that i really do want to kind of compare where we are now versus where we were prior to the 2007 surge. Mr. Mcgurk you have been about for quite some time. What was the level of the iraqi forces back in 2007 and i really wanted relatively quick answers here. How do you measure the level . How many people were in Iraqi Security forces in 2007 . I dont have the figure but it was not a highly effective force in early 2007. We had 132,000 the start of the surge and we surged 168,000. What were we up against in terms of enemy fighters in 2007 . We assessed the main enemy was outside in iraq which was isil. How many people were we up against . These figures are difficult. We have assessments of six to 8000 at the time but probably more. What we think the current iso forces are . Theyre difficult to measure 15,000 or so. In iraq for less. Basically doubled what we had in 2007. Isil today is far more capable and manpower resources fighting effectiveness in the aqi. Thats my point. U. S. Troop levels in iraq or how many . Total amount. We have inserted 775 and we have time 100 associated with art security office. Celesta 1000 now. Back in 2007 prior to a pretty difficult battle in terms of the surge we had 168,000 at the height of bad and iso has doubled the size of what was in 2007 and they have more weapon capabilities. Thats right. What was the size of the Iraqi Military force to determine which are effective and which arent affected. Theyre some units that are highly capable. Ms. Slotkin do you have that information . Information . At the to chide 2000. 200,000 prior to the intrusion or the invasion . I believe so. How many with that represent melted into the background . Again i dont have the exact number but its probably closer to 160ish. Do you have any sense percentagewise of what percentage that force would have effectiveness towards the fighting . In terms of the dissolved units is 30,000 the iraqis have recalled 10,000 and according to our assessments of there are 10,000 have come back and are going through a threeweek Training Course now. The effectiveness of the Iraqi Security forces versus u. S. Fighting forces . You cant compare them. We have a real problem on our hands. We talked a little bit about the threat to our homeland that i sold in syria and iraq represent. Can you describe what the threat to the homeland is . Can you make the American People aware of why this matters . What really concerns us particularly our counterterrorism experts and what also concerns us is this rise in the dedicated global jihad is fighters coming from all over the world many with western passports. In baghdad this week there was a suicide bomber and there was a german and an australian. I is i is able to funnel 30 suicide bombers a month into iraq. We assess almost all foreign fighters. It would be very easy for isil to decide to funnel that cadre of dedicated suicide bombers global jihad is into capitals around the region or worse comic here so that is a very significant concern. They have training bases in syria and they are recruiting on social media and the internet. Something we have never seen before. A year ago the president declared war on terror was over. You believe the war on terror is over . I think we have very significant fight on our hands with isil which we have to manage. I have no further questions. Senator cardin. Thank you mr. Chairman and i want to thank both of you for your appearance here today and for your service to our country. I certainly agree that the United States has a vital interest in retaining the growth to our homeland and to our allies. I also agree that we have a direct interest in dealing with a government in iraq that represents all of the ethnic communities fairly with an effective government that gives confidence to moderates that their forces can be heard within the Iraqi Government. Its interesting i was listening to senator johnson comparing the strength of the terrorist networks whether its isil or isis or al qaeda or whatever and he was drawing a comparison over the last seven years but to go back to before the u. S. Troop invasion in 2001 at least my understanding was there was virtually no al qaeda, no terrorist network that was a direct threat to our homeland in iraq. So it does raise a lot of questions and senator boxer raise an issue where use of military force back in 2001 was illadvised. We dont want to repeat the mistakes we have made in the past. Thats the reason i bring it up. I started with the fact that we have a vital interest in dealing with this current circumstance on the ground in iraq. I know this hearing is focused on iraq but i want to move a little bit to syria and what impact the isi isis is having on the opposition effectiveness in syria and whether we are finding any of the support for the opposition strengthening isis capacity within iraq and the network between the moderate gulf Arab Muslim States is supporting the opposition in syria, are we confident that is not finding its way to the terrorist networks now operating in iraq . Obviously the connection between isil i mean between the threat in iraq and syria is pretty significant. I dont personally know of any reports of opposition support being funneled to isil. I think they are pretty battle bitter battle against the regime and the terrorist who have taken over territory particularly eastern and northern serious so i dont have any reports about equipment and support provided getting into their hands. Its always a risk. What precautions have you taken with moderate arab states and with our own support for the opposition in syria to make sure that we are not binding american support or moderate arab support ending up encouraging terrorist activities moving into iraq . This is something obviously we talk to our Gulf Partners about quite a bit. Certainly over the period of the past couple of years and we just urged them to make sure similar to the way we use monitoring that they have some way of telling who they are providing things to and what capacity etc. Etc. We are sent to followup the way we would want them to follow. Mr. Mcgurk what impact does the impasse in syria the failure to be able to have a workable plan and syria impacting the stability in iraq . Its a very good question senator. The iraqis since the beginning of the Syrian Crisis and this is all iraqis, have had a different conception than we have had. They are very concerned that based upon their own experience that were you to see the fall of the assad regime it would unleash chaos on the borders and they take what is happening within that frame. Theres a kurdish dimension to the Syrian Crisis and the Central Tribal dimension to the Syrian Crisis and it has accelerated the centrifugal forces that are tearing at the fabric of iraq. So its very hard to even state the impact that the Syrian Crisis has had on iraq. In particular the rise of the suicide bombings in the car bombings all of which we are assess we assess her isil. They are targeted and this is isils doctrine and ideology to tear the fabric of iraq to attack shia civilians in the marketplace as there playgrounds their mosques repeatedly to attack sunni tribal leaders to disagree with them and thats why in february almost 86 of suicide bombings in isil parted to iraq were focused on the euphrates valley and anbar province. Attacking sunnis disagreed with their ideology than to attack the kurds in the disputed boundary territories in the north. That is what isil is trying to do. We got the suicide bomber number down to five to 10 a month in 2011 and 2012 and this year we are up to 30 to 50 a month and has a devastating effect on the psychology of the country. Do we have any numbers of iraqis since june to have been displaced either within iraq or outside in other countries . Immediately in mosul there are 500,000 idps and since the crisis started the idp number is over a million. Are they in iraq or iran or the countries . Most of them are in iraq and most of them fled to the kurdish region in the north. We have worked closely with our u. N. Partners in iraq to manage this crisis. Secretary kerry after he was in baghdad went to paris to meet the Foreign Ministers of saudi arabia and jordan and went to reality and the saudis after that meeting generously contributed 500 million to the agencies working in iraq which was a muchneeded contribution. We have contributed since such crisis began in mosul 80 million we are working closely with their kurdish partners to manage the crisis. I take it very few of these people have not returned because its not safe. Yes, thats right. Senator flake. Thank you mr. Chairman. How long have we known that isil was a threat to the extent that they are now . How long has the state department assess them as a threat . We have known this Organization Since 2003 zarqawi and al qaeda in iraq. At what point did we think that there was a threat that they would be able to take over mosul . In mosul they have had this modus and dandy for they have run racketeering schemes and self generate funding. We have no nothing going on. We did have indications of that until a few days beforehand. Just a few days before then. When did we get give warning to the Iraqi Government that this was a threat or has their Intelligence Network than sufficient to know this before was a problem . Is a very good question. In fact we have been given warnings and expressing concern to for the Iraqi Government about the security environment not just in mosul but northern nineveh last year. Part of the conversation our president had with president maliki we have been very concerned about and trying to work with the kurds and the Iraqi Security forces in the area to have coordination because isil comes from the Border Crossing south of the town called gremio and they have filled that space gradually over the last year. Without our military there conducting ground operations our efforts have been in the diplomatic field. One to convince the iraqis to be more inclusive and to not give rise to this kind of activity or space for that activity to happen. But two to wind them and help them combat this. It seems to me we have been spectacularly unsuccessful in the diplomatic arena in that regard and do you have in response to that or how hard are we working there and what intelligence did we have and are we passing it on . Is the Iraqi Government simply unresponsive . What has been the issue here . In terms of intelligence cooperation sharing with iraqi forces and in cooperation with iraqi forces right now as we speak is at a level we havent seen since richards left in 2011 so there are opportunities there for us. Since we started focusing on the al qaeda isil thread in iraq to go back to last summer you can see statements that the state department issued about baghdadi and the leader of iraq we have developed platforms with the iraqis to develop a better intelligence picture. A lot of it was slow going. And the critical side we are focused when the crisis began to make clear that any tribal fighters rising up against this group of good full benefits and resources from the state. The iraqis are greeted to train iraqi fallujans. There was an operation in northern fallujah and quite frankly those fighters lost and they lost because the isil networks particularly in fallujah with their military sophistication is able to overmatch any tribal force that confronts the situation right now. Theres also a situation in nineveh because we have tribal because theres a tribe of theres a tribe of therron over time given infiltrations the amount of force that isil can vary its difficult for locals to stand up. You say cooperation was slowly coming. Where does the fault lie with back . Was a slow . Were we slow to recognize the threat or was the Iraqi Government slow to heed the warnings we were giving or the cooperation that we offered . I think we started moving fairly aggressively in the summer. The iraqis wanted to do things on their own. They didnt formally request direct u. S. Military assistance until may although there was a conversation about the possibility of such assistance. The formal request came in me. Ive iraqis are proud of their sovereignty. We have a strategic Framework Agreement with them which allows us to do an awful lot that the notion of flying Surveillance Drones over iraq is guys with something that was controversial at first we have developed the mechanisms and procedures for doing these things and we have those now well in place. Are rolling congress, one of our main roles obviously is to provide funding for these complex for intelligence, for diplomatic efforts. Aside from thousands of lives lost. We have spent 800 billion at last count in iraq just in iraq. What can we tell our constituents that we have gotten out of that . Where are we now that we wouldnt be had we not spent 800 billion . As senator boxer said we gave them an opportunity and we hope that this isnt the end of the story in iraq. We believe that there is still an opportunity for the office to form a government to do something about the problem and we are urging them to get on with it. You know i think we still believe in a way forward in iraq. They just have to take the opportunity. Is a possible at all in the state departments view to move ahead with maliki in charge . Will there be sufficient trust from the sunni population that he will be inclusive enough with this government orders our strategy rely on somebody else coming in . It will be difficult so they are facing that question now. Now that the president has been elected to paste the questions and the Prime Minister. Any government will have to pull the country together so will deliver the later is a someone who will have to demonstrate that just to get the votes he needs to remain or to be sworn into office. Thats something that will unfold fairly rapidly over the coming days. Theres a 15 day timeline to nominate a Prime Minister. Whoever the nominee is they still have to form a government. The speaker of the parliament again was elected overwhelmingly with support from all major groups as was the president. We would anticipate the Prime Minister has the president has said it has to be somebody that has an inclusive agenda that can bring the groups together. Otherwise they wont be able to govern. Thank you mr. Chair. Thank you senator flake. Mr. Cans. I want to thank you for your leadership on this committee and banker witnesses for your testimony today. I will follow on senator flakes questioning in a moment. I share the ultimate goal of encouraging the creation of an inclusive iraq egovernment supported by all of iraqs different sectarian groups that have some hope of a secure and stable iraq Going Forward given how much has been sacrificed. I will also renew a theme you have heard from several senators that i do not support a return of active combat troop presence in iraq. Im concerned about the security of our personnel and very concerned about the region and some of our vital regional allies. First i think we do need to deal with defeating isis and the regional threat here in a regional context as he testified. I think its imperative we find a way to move forward that has some reasonable chance of resolving the ongoing crisis in iraq and syria. The best interest of the United States of israel jordan and turkey and all of our regional allies. On the point you were just discussing what you see as the passports for a political solution in these next 15 days . Have you met with anyone who strikes you as a promising potential Prime Minister who really could bridge these divides given reports of highlevel delegations of Iranian Military officials and diplomats meeting in baghdad and najaf. I am concerned that there are fewer chances for a broadbased inclusive government being formed and given active engagement from iran. I can speak to the process. This was iraqs Third National election held on april 30. It was one of the post elections in terms of the turnout. In 2006 it took them seven months to form a government in an extremely difficult process and what they did was they built this very bloated government with every seat filled and voted into office. 2010 it wound up being the same thing. Again they built it very bloated structure and sworn into office. This time they are proceeding differently. They are moving to the constitutional timeline, speaker president now Prime Minister. Its moving much faster than ever before. Nine months in 2010 less than 10 months of april elections. I would be hesitant to put timelines on it because its a complicated process. Preand in 28 members in the Iraqi Parliament represent the entire spectrum of political thought in iraq so its difficult to get full unity on any one person or one issue. There will be a strong debate trade is not a political process there and now they are starting to focus on the most critical question of who is going to lead the country as the chief executive. Your riveting description of the fall proposal suggests a lack of urgency or reality about the situation on the ground was outcome determinative lead to a failure to act in a timely way and isis sweeping across much of the center of the country. Do you think there was a sense of reality as to the defense posture that isil faces in the political challenges that they face . Yes and there is a culture in iraq that sometimes folks dont want to get their leaders bad news. Sometimes we are the ones who have to deliver the bad news and say you face an urgent situation. Mosul is a good example of that. The generals were saying it was particularly urgent so we are often so we often want to do that. Now given the information we have given the relationships we have on the ground military relationships we are able to give them a clear picture the situation they face. The relative tactical success they have had in clearing some of the highways north of baghdad remains very difficult but is highly one that goes all the way north to the tigris valley from baghdad to samarra. That was partially on their own but partially because we help them with information. Then the next stretch from samarra to tikrit the same thing and we did not abide him to go into tikrit city itself because thats a very typical military environment to operate in. That is why general austin is on the ground to discuss with their new commanders and political leaders how we can better approach this Going Forward and work in a cooperative way. Thereve been widespread reports of sunnis bristling under isis rule. They are extreme. They conduct not just terror attacks and suicide bombings and targeted assassinations but impose a harsh form of syria. What prospects are there for outreach for reengagement with elements of the Sunni Community that might assist the Iraqi Security forces, might play some role in rising up against isis in a replay of what happened previously . Yeah i think we have seen this story before in our own experience of iraq that many of these groups may give tacit support to terrorist organizations in their neighborhoods as soon as there is some prospect of turning against them and they know they have some support from their Central Government to do it. Then they will turn on them. They dont like living under sometimes the sharia law that has been imposed on them so i think the prospects are still there but i think ultimately it will come down to whether they feel like they have a partner in the Central Government of iraq. The new government will have to attract the sunnis away from isis and isil and towards them. The Security Forces have to be part of that. The end of the day its about a political cop reminds that they strike in baghdad and where those sunnis away. Economic and strategic stability given the flood of refugees that they have been taking in as a result of the same crisis and the increasingly porous borders. What concrete steps are we taking to reinforce and to ensure the stability and vibrancy of jordan and how does the announced intent to deliver support to the vetted moderate syrian persistence strength and not . I think the most important thing is that the jordanian military is a very Capable Military force so we are very focused on the threat right on their border but so are they. They have reinforced their troops on their border with iraq and we have a very close relationship with the jordanians and talk with them on a daily basis. Again because of the Syrian Crisis the u. S. Already had robust presence in the country. We have f16s and we have a patriot battery there. We have a we have upgraded milliondollar fmf program. We do education with them. It is a strong relationship one of the strongest in the region. I feel confident that we are doing anything we can response to any request that they have to help them with their situation on the border. The United States needs capable partners and platforms in the region to deal with this very fluid threat and the jordanians are a big part of that and so will this moderate opposition. Thank you senator coons. Senator risch and then senator rubio. I appreciate that. Let me begin with our party for everyone here is the safety and security of our personnel including the department of defense personnel and the personnel at the embassy given recent events. There has been increased reporting that the isf is increasingly linked or intermingled with shia militia forces. Some of these shia militia forces are wearing isf uniforms but its becoming difficult to distinguish between a shia fighter and an isf personnel greatly have seen opensource reporting that the shia militia could pose a threat to our personnel including potentially our military trainers and others. Can you briefly describe number one how we assess the threat of these militiamen and what are we doing to mitigate the risk they pose to our personal given the fact that they are basically embedded and anger mingled with the Iraqi Security force or smell that we are working sidebyside intentionally with . This is exactly what we were trying to assess by going over there and looking unit by unit in and around baghdad in things i command and control morale and a particular infiltration of shia militias. Grand ayatollah sistani put out a public call for volunteers to join the military so one thing we watch closely was as all these new folks came in there with their allegiance is the . They respond to the commanders of the unit or someone else could x. That is what we have been trying to figure out and i think the picture honestly as mix. In some areas we have good morale strong adherence to command a control to military channels and in other places its more of an open question. Those are the kinds of units we dont want to be working with and why we are taking this deliberate approach. There is a real risk is there not that the shia militia that or there could easily, could just as easily be the ones firing on her embassy in personnel as isil personnel could be unless otherwise constrained. Shia militias are something we watch closely. Theres a been a ceasefire in place since 2009 against government forces. Its something we watch extremely closely. The assessment assessed every unit around baghdad and without getting into the details some of them them are infiltrated and dangerous. Some of them have Close Relationships with us. I wanted to get to the broader questions and you touched upon it in your statement to morceau in a written statement he submitted. Heres a question we have got from people. People are outraged about the reports coming out about the Different Things to isil is doing. I think americans understand this is a terrible radical group of violent individuals. That being said Public Opinion polls on the phonecalls to get in her office is the attitude much of the American Public is its a mess but its their problem, let them figure it out. I personally said this is not even about iraq at this point. Its about the longterm security of the United States and the threat that isil proposes that they are able to establish a safe haven of operations; al qaeda did. I was hoping from the administrations point of view in the state department and department of justice point of view you could perhaps use this as an opportunity to explain to my constituents are going to why this matters to florida, something that happened halfway around the world in a country that quite frankly people think increasingly we shouldnt have gotten involved in. Why should people care about whats happening in iraq given the poems we have here at home . Thank you senator. A couple of things. I trust the isil thread in my Opening Statement that the serious threat and that is number one. These are vital u. S. Interests in iraq. Number one the al qaeda threat in al qaeda threat and number two cup just a supply of Energy Resources to global markets. Iraq through 2035 will account for 45 of all of the growth in oil energy exports. If iraq were to collapse in a major civil sectarian war the effects to our own economy at home would be quite serious. Every single fault line crossing to the middle east and every persian moderate extremist shiasunni arabkurd everything meets in iraq. Where isil to get into the mosque city of samarra which wanted to do and to unleash a cauldron of sectarian violence it was spread with devastating effects for economy here at home. Biologist at stake from al qaeda to Energy Resources in our own economy are at stake. Did you want to add something . I would just put stomp the isil thread rate they are so funded