to start off with a call-in question and how many times were you arrested during the civil rights hay day? >> guest: i didn't keep track. but i talked about the first one and the last one in the book. the first one is the day i met my wife. we met in jail. the last time was in columbia, south carolina in 1961. i remember that one because that arrest led to a landmark breach of peace case called edwards against south carolina. it began a law school case that most universities use the case book method use that case to teach from. i happen to be one of those arrested that day. i remember those two. in between a lot of times we got arrested and were never really charged. just taken to the police station, taken off the streets and put back on with once the crowd disbursed. >> host: why were you and emily clyburn arrested and what year was it? >> guest: march of 1966 and it was six weeks after the students in greenboro, north carolina were arrested and several weeks before we first met -- greensboro -- at shaw university in raleigh to form a group that was being talked about. i was locked up around 10 a.m. and emily was among the students they didn't have room for in the jails so they herded them back to the the campus of south carolina state and chaplain university. they came around 6:30 to bring us food. she talked in the door and walked toward me with this hamburger in her hands and i reached for it, she pulled it become, broke it in half, gave me half and she ate the other half. i was so grateful for that half hamburger and married her 18 months later. at our 10th anniversary she fessed up and told me it wasn't a chance meeting. she said she and her roommate, they were standing there in the dorm room watching me walk across the campus, and she told her roommate we didn't make a good couple and she was going to be my wife. she set at with her plan that happened on june 24th, 1961. so this past june we celebrated our 53 anniversary. >> host: james clyburn represents the sixth district of south carolina since 1993. it has a little columbia, charleston and and lot of other territoryies. 202-585-380 forestern central. 585-3891 if you live out west. you can tweet us and facebook.com/booktv. we will try to get to those comments as well. congressman, clyburn, age 12, what made you become an activist and what made it happen? >> guest: growing up my dad and mom were very active and around 1951-'52 is when things starting percolating in south carolina. my father was a minister and the man who was organized in all of the people was a minister delane. my dad at breakfast every morning we would be praying for the people and we started forming youth councils of the naacp throughout the south and i went to the meetings at the church back in just about two months before my 13 birthday. in some way, i guess i went to the rest room but when the meeting was over with i was the president of the sumpter youth council. and that just grew to the sit-ins in 1960 and the forming of snick in april at shaw university that year and then i met martin luther king, jr. in october down at moore house college and met john lewis at the same time. it came from my parents and associates in college and went through to today and here we are, june john lewis and i having spent 22 years in the congress together. >> host: you are the democratic leader in the house of representative, right? >> guest: yes. >> host: what do you were growing up in the jim crowe era? >> guest: in 1955 my high school band was invited to march in the christmas parade. it was the first time there were black units. it was customary in those days for santa clause to be the last unit riding on a fire truck. after santa clause the horses from a local equestrian stable would march. they were the last things because of the droppings they left along the way and their aroma that flowed from those droppings. when he got down there to march in the parade it turned out we were placed in the parade behind the horses. it was very, very difficult and very memorable to try to play that clarinet while side stepping droppings and trying to breathe in and out the way you have to with the aroma of the stale oats. well, that to me, was probably the most lasting memory from that year because because of that i left that high school. and went to madison academic where my mother had gone to school and that is where i graduated from and i believe it was the experience at that united methodisschool in camden, south carolina where i first interacting with white teach teachers and people that containi changed me dramatically. it was the most transformational thing until i let martin luther king, jr. in october of 1960 and setting up with him until 4:30 in the morning was transformational. those two experiences shaped me more than anything else. >> host: peniel joseph was just talking about his recent book, "stokely: a life." here is the cover. what is improgression of the first generation of the civil rights movement? >> guest: very important. congressman clyburn and senator lewis were activist and shaped by jim crowe seg -- segregation and they shift from political organizer to electoral politics and they did it successfully and maintained an understanding with grassroots. congressman clyburn and congressman lewis represent accountability. once they achieved political power they remembered their backgrounds as civil rights activist. it is an extrordinary situations. >> host: peniel joseph, what was stokely carmichael's reputation among those on the ground? >> guest: before becoming a black power activist he is well known. before he is an icon and in the front page of the new york time s he was someone people knew has a snick activist. john lewis and him were friends. and he remembered he instantly liked stokely carmichael. among young people and activist he had a good reputation. he was stubborn and cracked wise jokes. king loved him like a little brother. stokely wasn't in awe of anyone. >> host: congressman clyburn would you agree with that? >> guest: yes. i was in south carolina, i remember, we went to raleigh, north carolina easter weekend in 1960. part of that where talk about in my book because you take rosa par parks. parks was a phenomenal part of the case and when you read the court case that desegregated transit there was a footnote in the rosa parks case that said we didn't have to determine the rule on this issue. we have already made that determination in the case of sarah flemming versus the south carolina electric and gas company. there was a lot going on in south carolina but we were not a media center and therefore you will not read and hear a lot about it. you write a lot about john lewis. he talked about having been arrested this morning. the first time he was every physically attacked was in rock hill, south carolina. and the man that went up there to rescue them was james t mccain from sumpter south carolina when was my pointing league baseball coach and the one guy my dad let me go to the meetings with him. my dad trusted him more than anyone else in the movement. john lewis will tell you that mccain was one of the most impressive people he ever met. i got to know him not just as a movement guy but my baseball coach when i was 14. you will find these in my book but not most other books because most people never saw south carolina and what was going on. martin luther king, jr. referred to mcclaw as the mother of the movement. she went to highline the folks school to teach and taught rosa parks. she was from charleston, south carolina. >> host: james clyburn, peniel joseph, let's take calls. elonzo in north carolina. go ahead with your question or comment, sir. >> caller: yes, either one can answer, but i would like to know what is their opinion about the current gridlock as it relates to stokely carmichael and brown and those people who probably foresee what i termed as the ignorance our country is faced with now because the demographics are changing here in the united states. a lot of what seems to be what stokely and brown spoke against was those that were at the top and how for their own reasons they oppressed people and now we find that even the white power structure which is becoming increasingly decreased -- why find there is an awareness that is causing the kinds of gridlock we find in our government. and their philosophy which isn't being challenged is based on a lot of thinking of dread scott and the supreme court decision. >> host: you got a lot on the table. let start with peniel joseph and then congressman clyburn. >> guest: i think where we are at with the race relations in the country is a crucial point. i think 50 years ago with stokely and brown they talked about institutional racism and trying to transform the movement. this idea of black equality has lost some steam is what the fergus ferguson, missouri and other cases are showing. when we think about social economic indicators, 43 million in the united states and only 10% make 90,000 or more. so 90% of african-americans are not doing well. mass incarceration and underemployment. where we are at for a certain group of african-americans is extraordinary and we cannot deny the progress this group made but they are only a small subsection of the larger group. what that group needs to do along with poor folks is talk about black quality and racial justice. we cannot say we have obama and the civil rights movement and it is over. >> guest: i agree with that. let's move it into the political arena. we just experienced depictions in ferguson, missouri. but let me tell you something. i have looked at this. i had my staff do research for me. we found out that if you look at the 2012 elections in ferguson, missouri, 56% of the african-americans in that community voted in the presidential election in 2012. in april of this year, only 6% of them bothered to vote. in the local elections for mayor, the why who they say incen incenseive tv -- insensitive was up for election unopposed and only 6% bothered to vote. something has to be done to get people to understand their job isn't over when you elect an african-american to the president or the congress. i don't have a vote on the school board or the city council or the county commissioner. and i am not the one affecting your children's lives in that school house. you have to take those local and state elections just as seriously as you take the presidential elections. president obama may have delivered the affordable care act however the implementation of parts of that act must be done at the state level. so it must be the state governor's and legislatures who determine whether or not medicare gets expapped and if senior citizens get taken care of. this is at the state and local levels. we have to do a better job of getting people to understand these local elections are just as important to your children and your grandchildren has who sits in the whitehouse. that to me is where we have gun to fall short. back in the activism days we were marching to the polls as if there were more tomorrow. today we keep waiting on tomorrow. >> host: george is calling in from murphysboro, tennessee. you are on the line. >> caller: i want to ask a question to professor joseph and make a comment i want them both to address. when i was a at a seminary ge heard carmichael and he made a statement saying if america mess the africa we will burn this area down. what did stokely carmichael think of the naacp and the urb league. congressman clyburn, congressmen like to study but i would like to see you go out and support your family and live on $7.25 an hour and tell us about it. >> host: congressman you want to start? >> guest: i wasn't always a congressman. i know what it is like to sleep three in a bed. i remember when we got our first indoor toilet and running water. i have had those experiences. i have worked for a $1.25 an hour. i used to relocate out houses in order to make enough money to pay my college education. i didn't come along when we had pel grants and students loans. so none of that i experienced. my wife used to walk two and a half miles to school and back home every afternoon because they were not allowed school buses in her school districts. no body can tell me how tough it is to make these livings. but i am not going to be sorry for having getting elected to congress. i went door to door and i am living my dreams and spending every day to make sure that pell grants are there for your children and student aid is there for them. whatever the government maybe i am working june june lewis and the other congressional black caucus members to make it work. and i i want you to know i wasn't always a member of congress. >> guest: in terms of stokely, he would have wanted people to join the urban league and naacp because he believed in organizing. if more people in ferguson were organized they had have more political power. so he felt even if you didn't follow his way wherever you were you mead needed to organize. groups like the naacp are important. and they are advocates for economic justice and more importantly they are advocates for black quality. i think the biggest thing we don't talk about in america in 2014 is the idea of black quality. that is more than racial judgment. it is saying if black people receive equalty there is a trickle up affect for everyone. gays and lesbians, poor, physically challenged but you have to talk about black quality because the country is founded on racial slavery. it is uncomfortable and i don't think it is the president who has to talk about it. it is all of us who are active citizens. it matters for all of us even if we are not black because it will have a healthy impact on our democra democracy. >> host: peniel joseph, how do you think your life has been different from congressman clyburn? >> guest: very different. i went to a high school that was integrated. my neighborhood was predominantly black but if you achieved and had educational students you could leave that neighborhood. so there was definitely, i would say, more opportunities and more access. at the same time, i think one of the interesting things about the jim crowe period that congressman lewis and clyburn lived through, we are facing a new jim crowe with massive incarceration and also segeration in the residential areas. blacks and whites are likely to live, die and go to church together. the recoursources are not there though in the black community as much. my life was shaped by a different jim crowe. my encounters with the police were not the same. i was stopped but never taken in because i had conversations to tell them i am a student and didn't do anything. but i think my life was contoured by a different jim crowe that is different than what the congressman had. >> host: peniel joseph was our guest on in-depth for three yours. you can watch three hours of him talking about all of the books including "stokely: a life." james clyburn's book was covered and his wife in aikin, south carolina and you can watch that online as well. next call is from steve in washington, d.c. hi, steve. >> caller: stokely carmichael was an atheist and how did that play out in the otherwise greatly christian civil rights movement? >> guest: that is a great question. his people were methodist but his own believes were atheist/agnostic. he had read the bible and sang church songs and hymns so he used that christian ethic that was a part of the heroic multiple for the organizing. he knows to multiple churches in washington, d.c. and other churches toward the end so has a great relationship with the black church and understands that is the root and seed bed for black political activism in the united states. he realized if you are going to say you want equal rights and racial justice and whether people believe it because of a philosophical reasons or god has led us to this movement he was fine. during freedom summer he is organizing in mississippi and he is with young white organizers who volunteered to come into the deep south. and he said i know some are marxist and some are others but he said if they thing this is a result of god then thank you god. >> host: do you view this as a christian movement? >> guest: it was a religious movement not christian. there were as many jews involved in the rights as christians. there were other religions. i studied all of the great religions. the first a i got in college was in comparative religion. my father was a minister. i grew up in the fundamentalist church. we believed in dunking and my wife's church believed in sprinkles. all of these are symbolic of how to live and find that one four letter word: love. love thy neighbor as thy self. all of the religions teach that. the leaders and face of the movement were all christians put dr. king wouldn't have been successful without the participation of the jews. in philadelphia, mississippi the three kids that got killed during freedom summer one was african-american and the other two were jews. >> host: freedom summer '64. >> guest: that is part of what the activity is going on. the 50th anniversary of the civil rights act and the 50 anniversary of freedom summer that led to the act. next year we will celebrate whatever led to the '65 voting rights. we are going to be -- we are already planning that. john lewis and i have had a lot of discussion son on what we can do to celebrate this. one thing would be to get congress to support the effectiveness of the voting act. >> host: do you remember where you were when lbj signed the civil rights act? >> guest: 10% of the money in the law had to go where 20% of the population or more was under the poverty level for 30 years. we work on thes things every day to address the issue of under and unemployment and to try to reach people who are suffering today because the economy, the recovery hasn't gotten to them the way it should. we are trying to direct those resources and that is one of the ways we are doing it. >> host: catherine in emuclaw, washington. >> guest: i want to thank the gentlemen for their service and their teaching. i am 70 years old, white woman who remembers very well freedom summer, emit till and all remember all of that. and i don't want to see it happen again. i have been so angry at what happened in ferguson, trayvon martin, the two killings in new york by police man. i just want to see it stop. this country is like suburban kings of france. it forgives nothing. help us learn how to organize again. ... students to say we are going to meet at 12:00 tomorrow and we are going to march and 2000 people showed up. today we have got twitter. we have got facebook. we have got all the social media stuff and i believe if we were to organize ourselves using social media rather than worry about all this foolishness that we get off the internet lets put some stuff on that internet that will say to the people of ferguson missouri, get to the polls by 7:00 this evening so you won't have to march at midnight. that's the kind of stuff we have got to do today. use the tools that we have. we have great tools to communicate but everything else we can text what do we call it? let's do some voting organizing over the internet. we have the tools. let's use them for a new massive movement that will make sure that we can have in november 2014 the kind of turnout at the polls that we had in 2012 and november. if we voted in presidential elections at the same level, i mean in local elections at the same level that we vote in presidential elections a lot of this stuff that you are fearful of right now will dissipate, go away. >> guest: we have to do what we can wear began as a professor. i ran the center for the state of democracy and we are organizing a national dialogue. this ear ferguson is on our minds. i think locally it has to be these ferguson problems are local problems. they are in new york, boston and washington d.c.. the university is very important here. our students don't know the story. some of us teach african-americans history and we teach sort courses on social movements and social justice. one thing i find really remarkable is that many people have never taken a civil rights course and never taken a black history course before they enter a college campus whether they are white or black so our students need to know the story. why does martin luther king and representative clyburn matter? why did ferguson happen? they need to understand everything from slavery to a movement to citizenship and voting rights in this country and we can do that by organizing on our campuses, tea tins. we have teach ends against the vietnam war in the 1960s. we can do tea tins for racial and economic equality. we can do a lot in the key and this is education but also dialogue. black and white people are not speaking to each other. we need to have a dialogue with each other that's not about recrimination or accusation but rooted in reality and where we are today if we have that dialogue than you can connect that dialogue to a push for public policy at the local level, the regional and state level and finally at the national level. >> guest: i'm very pleased to hear that. in fact last wednesday evening my wife and i had dinner with the present of the university of south carolina and this is the kind of discussion we had. what we can do on that campus which is in my congressional district, to really take the mantle of them to make these kinds of efforts and what role can the university play m? they are doing a tremendous job i think of trying to find a way to make the university of south carolina relevant to this going forward. if you go back and look in history and 1860s that was one of the few integrated universities that we had in the country. it has gone a different way in recent years but he's trying to bring it back to that. >> guest: dr. bobby donaldson reminds me so much of you. i don't know which one is the oldest. maybe you remind me of him but he is leading this effort on the university campus. he just did a tremendous effort. i heard you earlier today talking about 1963. bobby has done a tremendous piece on all that took place in 1963 and how it ignited south carolina. when you get a chance he should take a look at that. he has all these tapes some of which were taken by the police who were really surveying rather than recording. he dug up all that stuff and he has updated it to make it relevant. >> in your book blessed experiences i think it's your daughter mignon when she went to the university of south carolina there was an incident there regarding a black homecoming queen. >> guest: absolutely. i tell that story in the book. it starts with mignon getting ready to go to college. her mother said to me you have insisted that she live on the campus. you need to have a talk with her before she goes. i kept putting it off. finally the day came. i sat down with mignon and i said to her now mignon you are about to go up on the campus. you have got to understand that when you get on my campus a lot of things are going to happen to you that are good because you are jim clyburn's daughter but something's going to happen to you that ain't so good a place you are jim clyburn's daughter. i said now don't you worry about any of that. it will wash out but something's going to happen to you because you are a woman and you are black. those things will never even now. you will have to work hard to overcome those things. she didn't say anything. thanksgiving she called me and asked what i come and pick her up because they were closing the dormitories for thanksgiving. i went by the dormitory and picked her up and on our way home and automobile passed us and this was in 1980 and it had a bumper sticker on the back of it george rogers for heisman. he won the heisman trophy that year. she said to me dad did you see the bumper sticker on a car? i said yes. she said do you think that man would put your bumper sticker -- i just run for secretary of state on his car? i said no i don't think he would but why do you ask? she said that little conversation we had as you are about to take me to school i did not understand what you meant until the recent homecoming game. i said what happened at homecoming? she said at the homecoming game i noticed that when our black homecoming queen that was introduced, she was booed and i noticed she said the stands the booed the loudest was the same section that cheered the loudest when george rogers was introduced at the beginning of the game. i said okay and what did i say to you. she said well i deducted from that was okay for us to entertain them but not okay for us to represent them. i said you know what's? you are going to do well. and she has done well. >> host: mignon clyburn is a member of the federal communications today. michael in philadelphia thanks for holding on. michael we are going to lose michael. you have to turn down the volume on your tv. listen for your telephone and you'll be able to hear everything. stephanie is an r. or a colorado. hi stephanie. you are on book tv. >> caller: hi. thanks for taking my call congressman and mr. joseph thank you so much for being here today and thank you for telling your story. i would like to echo what the lady said from washington is that what is the scope of the federal government? in how they reached the 50 states? there's a separation. the states do have their own laws and jurisdictions and their constitutions and such but it's all throughout the contiguous united states that there is police brutality with minority groups and also mr. joseph mentioned something very important as well that it's our fellow white americans as well that should be alarmed at this. there are some flights and constitutional rights that have been breached here and i wonder what the federal government, what is the scope, how far can he reach and what can they do or is it just left up to the state? i have five children, we have three boys and two girls. the three boys are adults doing well have six figures. they are very intelligent but i was alarmed at what i saw and what i hear. they have never been in trouble, done well. one daughter in college and one graduating high school this year but it touched me and i'm thinking what can we do? i live in colorado and i live in a middle-class mixed neighborhood. my kids have grown up that way but my husband and i grew up in the south in south carolina and my parents grew up in arkansas. our kids really haven't seen a lot of this but these things come out now and we talk about it but it has touched me terribly. this could happen to my kid. >> host: thank you maam. peniel joseph. >> guest: it's a great question and stephanie. the federal government can do a lot and i will leave to leave it to the congress and to get to specifics but in a broad historical way i will say the new deal the only reason why we are living the way we do now is because the federal government of the new deal starting in the 1930s and 40s. the agricultural adjustment act national labor relations board the 40-hour workweek because of the federal government. in the 60s when the federal government did the civil rights act voting rights act and became part of a comprehensive really great society. lyndon johnson, war and poverty. state had to implement in a fashion that they found judicious these big programs. the affordable care act is the largest expansion of government in the last 50 years. what is interesting about the federal government, the federal government can do a whole lot. it's just in our own times we live in an age where there is the most economic inequality in american history since the gilded age in the late 19th century the age of the rockefellers and the vanderbilt, these titans. what the federal government can do when we think about ferguson would be whether it's a great society or an urban renewal program. what's interesting is that what impact white americans as well and latinos. the reason why i say that as americans we should think about black equality because even the new deal and great society because of institutional racism black equality was not actually achieved even though there were these huge federal mandates. in 2014 because we are aware of racial injustice we should have huge federal programs that achieve things of social justice for everyone. i think the federal government can do a whole lot not just for black equality but just for poverty in the united states. >> guest: i'm going to agree with that but let's take a it a step further. the new deal did a lot for a lot of people but it took truman's fair deal to implement so much of that. if you recall from the new deal and i know you know this much better than i do roosevelt did a lot for it were culture, for what we might call the wpa the ccc but when those things were taken down to the state levels they were segregated. they had labels on them and roosevelt did nothing about that. it took truman's fair deal to remove some of those labels. it was truman and the executive order. the armed services back in 1948. it was an executive order by abraham lincoln really that implemented the emancipation proclamation. what people didn't realize was the 13th amendment was important because lincoln just knew if he didn't get the 13th amendment passed the moment he stepped out out out of office's executive order was going to be resending by the next executive. these things are interrelated and we just cannot really separate them out. so when you look at the new deal and then you get to the fair deal, you get to the great society with lyndon johnson, a lot of people felt and i have heard them say some of my colleagues the war on poverty failed. the war on poverty did not fail. in fact the war on poverty that speech was made in january 1964 and the following june and july the civil rights act passed and 64 the voting rights act and 65 the fair housing law 1968. he became state and local governments in 1972. all of that is part of the great society. i would not be where i am today but for the voting rights act of 65. many of us wouldn't be where we are but for the civil rights act of 64. all of that was a part of the great society's war on poverty. it did not fail. it succeeded. i'm a living testimony and so is john lewis to the fact that did not fail. >> host: temin michigan please go ahead with your comment. >> caller: . [inaudible] >> host: i apologize. we just couldn't quite catch what tim was saying so we are going to move to burn in detroit michigan. >> caller: hello. my name is vernon brown and i'm in detroit. i'm a member of the association association of african-american life and history and the association of black -- and i would like to know how either one of you go about to get june as a national holiday. it is a state holiday in 304 states and we really want people to be aware of what juneteenth is and it is a celebration for all people to celebrate freedom. i would like to know how we can do it in a political archived way. >> host: jim clyburn we will start with you. >> guest: i'm going to leave it up to the professor is why that's a big national holiday because i don't know if i subscribe to that. because juneteenth commemorates the date 18 months after the emancipation proclamation that the former slaves who were still slaves in texas got noticed that they were in fact freed. now the other states are already out enjoying that freedom. in south carolina we were already elected to the state legislature and to the congress. the majority of the legislature in the general assembly in south carolina in the spirit of time or african-americans. three out of the four congresspeople we had were african-american. so we had gotten word in south carolina and many other states were going on to implement. for some strange reason the war word did not get to texas until the 19th of june the next year. the professor will have to make me understand why there needs to be a national holiday. >> host: before you answer professor joseph why do you necessarily subscribe to a national holiday of juneteenth? >> guest: i'm trying to find out what is national about the word getting to one state late. guess good juneteenth 1865 i think should be a national holiday. the reason why is it the end of slavery nationally. it's not about the fact that it gets to texas late. it's saying that if we celebrate it as a society every june 19 and the chattel slavery and if we taught our citizens the way in which african-americans and whites contributed and fought and died before the end of slavery both in the civil war and politically because you mention mention congressman that someone mention congressman that someone can bet the film again doesn't have said derek douglas said. frederick douglass met with the present with the president of united states three times. he was as big a part is the emancipation. juneteenth i agree with vern that there should be a national holiday. it's a matter of democracy and citizenship. we live in a country that remembers to forget slavery, that remembers to forget lynching, there remembers to forget all these horrible things that happened to parts of the population. now if you remember on june 19 the end of slavery we could also remember all the americans who died and came together to end slavery including white americans. juneteenth very important and again as a matter of small d democracy and citizenship were we became in the united states of america by the time all of our citizens realize there was freedom. >> guest: that's something we have to have a great discussion on. we were talking about our universities involving this. i have talked to a lot of people who still don't understand what the 13th amendment is about. i know lincoln wasn't involved in the movie but i had nothing to do with the movement of the present of the united states at that time to get an amendment to the constitution getting rid of slavery. that's something totally different. irrespective of who got him there. that is what the 13th amendment and the movie was all about. there are some other things in the movie. that vote by connecticut that was absolutely wrong. i don't know why they left that in the movie but that was absolutely wrong and the people of connecticut i think are still angry about that. >> host: james clyburn is currently the assistant democratic leader in the house of representatives. he has been in congress in 1993. the book we are talking about today with him is "blessed experiences." genuinely southern, proudly black. peniel joseph is a history professor at tufts university. here's his most recent book, stokely alive and he's the author of dark days bright nights and waiting until the midnight hour a narrative history of black power in america and jury in fresno california you have about 30 seconds. >> caller: thank you everybody for participating in what you are doing. [inaudible] i wanted to ask a question about organizing when you talk about organizing with new technology being a young person knowing well about twitter and facebook. the question of what is net neutrality really. maybe you can start the dialogue to talk about the organization and these guys into their lives when they talked about black power. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> host: très apologize, let's hear from our guests. >> guest: c-span and the founder brian lamb talks about how stokely carmichael was part of inspiration for c-span. he said carr maaco gave a brilliant speech and lecture and he is in person seeing him and later on on the nightly news he saw snippets of the same same speech he is then added he saw the news took the most incendiary parts this well digested new on speech and that's what they broadcast the most incendiary volatile parts. he really vowed that he wanted to create a media platform where people could speak from beginning to end in their entirety and he would let viewers decide what it is they just experience. so yeah and stokely was interviewed by brian lamb near the end of his life. they always had a special relationship. >> host: in fact if you want to see that interview a few months before kwame ture stokely carmichael died you can go to the c-span video library available at c-span.org. just type in kwame ture and stokely carmichael and you will be able to watch that. gentlemen we are running out of time. mr. clyburn we have referenced ferguson a couple of times here in this conversation. what's going to happen when congress comes back with regard to the hearings, legislative action especially perhaps a lot of the talk was about the militarization of the police force. do you foresee any legislative action on behalf of congress? >> guest: oh yes i do especially regarding the militarization of the police forces. i think to have police officers decked out in camouflage, sit in the top of these mraps many of which are made in my district and i know why they are made. they are there for ieds, ieds that were really maiming people. they were made for the city streets. these things were made for war and for you to dress as if you are going to war for you to talk to people as if you had war with them. this is the kind of thing that is absolutely incredible. i think that congress is going to seek a response to that. the president really made it clear that he is looking at doing something about it. and i think he can by executive can by executive order since these things are being given to these police officers by the federal government. they are being legislated by congress. >> host: a little bit from james clyburn his book "blessed experiences." tufts professor peniel joseph.

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