Transcripts For CSPAN2 Panel Discussion On Race And Politics 20160101

[applause]. [applause] back to back via [applause] please join me one more round of applause for these people that have shared in theire jo the musical talent. All [applause] the ensemble by chuck and the Orange High School choir. [applause] before we close i would like to highlight an event at the nixon library. On sunday december 6 at 12 noon in the east room of the Nixon Foundation will host the sixth annual honoring hometown event where we recognize those that have given their lives in military service from california honoring the gold star families we invite you to attend and join us in honoring them. As inspired as i am by his presentations into the incredible warrior i highly recommend you purchase a copy of the book. Thank you for being here and god bless our veterans and the United States in america. [applause] next a Panel Discussion on race and politics from the 17th annual harlem book fair. Im going to begin by introducing my fellow panelist briefly and then we will just get right into it. On my immediate right is samuel roberts, the director of the institute for research in africanamerican studies and associate professor of history and associate professor of of the socio medical sciences at the school publichealth at Columbia University he writes lectures widely on africanAmerican History, medical and Public Health history, urban history and history of social movements. And the political economy is held the race a peer co that encompasses the jim crow era and from the bacteriological revolution to the antimicrobe or therapy. The author of the awardwinning book the color of our shame. The the call amend the stone into his right is professor l. Irvin painter who works in new jersey as an author and historian is the edwards professor of American History at Princeton University and the author of seven books including the history of white people creating black americans can africanAmerican History and its meanings in the department and Sojourner Truth a life of symbols. Shes also a professional painter and works digitally and manually most recently on art history by volume 27 in the ancestral arts. She received her phd from harvard and the nsa in painting from the Rhode Island School of design so please join me in welcoming the panelists. [applause] we are here to talk about race and politics in the time of crisis. I was thinking we could begin by thinking about the current state of affairs and if we just think about it have a pretty dramatic way of thinking about this moment. So in the past, we have encountered the deaths of two black women in police custody, Kendra Chapman who was only 18yearsold and is on drug and the mass murder of the church in church in charleston. We celebrated, thats probably the wrong word, but remembered the anniversary of eric garners death. And the last week that 40 of black children live in poverty. We have black unemployment remaining twice the rate of the americans etc. And so i want to begin by asking the question of all of you. I would ask the same question as doctor king asked, where do we go from here . There are people that share with me how are shared with me how they lived through the 1960s. You see a real sense if you want to be pessimistic about it things havent changed that much but they still as you mentioned are a lot to do for a up for. Its not to focus solely on what we have to deplore but if you were here for the earlier session come and please bear with me because im going to repeat something that i said and that is i almost feel as if there is a conspiracy to keep us from doing our work by engaging us constantly with atrocities as a historian and a person that has lived for many decades now, i dont feel that somehow more black people are being murdered i think that we are simply hearing about it in a very sad and perverse way i suppose, but my point is we have to find the means of coming to terms with the atrocities of finding the steps we can take to counter that whether it is going into the street, whether it is joining an organization or giving money. We have to be able to take a step. Because to do something already gives you some space. And then to continue on your own work. A i have two things on my mind. Basketball players like lebron james being called king james. Look. Its obviously two Different Things but that doesnt mean they wont get better. Its different than what they used to look like but that doesnt mean that you have actually moved forward. A i think theyve actually had some progress. You are right about change. It doesnt mean that everything is okay. Address the people who say what things have changed there for, we are done. Thats who the comment is addressed to. But this refers back to the name of the Panel Politics in the name of the crisis and i would beg to differ because the crisis is a puncture or kind of disruption of the normal that is to detriment of the subject but this is the normal for black folks for a long time for centuries. The only difference now is that maybe now some folks are listening. So the question really is who is the crisis for. Technology has made it possible because if you look at the statistics. There is the idea of the technology will force of who is the crisis really for and i think in an interesting way theres a reversal to people at the back and finally realizing that certain kind of moral regulation for how black americans are governed and how they are pleased and how to control the distribution of goods. And in that sense it may be more organic is possibly a moment of genuine hope through a lot of tragedy where we finally have a whole nations attention. The question is whether things change from here but i think this something to be said on the Pressure Point and hopefully they would stop soon but every time it happens we actually say look, this is consistent with the history and we will have more time to talk about the denial of history which is what James Baldwin important theme of how folks forget their history and what that means. I knew him when he was a tiny tot. I think it views the crisis for us and psychologically because ive heard so many people feel for my father i cant take it anymore but constant drumbeat of the victimization is something that makes people feel badly judge. I agree the crisis is what mental this moment has passed for democracy which has been in a state of decay the past several decades. I think thats where the true change will happen and i agreed when we live in a the moment of atrocity that it can prevent us from the real work such as ulcers dropped her role to get to is also structural. So going to the question of where do we go from here we have to think very creatively about some of the structures and for example i dont know why i was surprised when i heard that the president was the first sitting president to visit prison and why would they be surprised we do not live in a democracy where people in prison, really a lot of people who are not in prison but has been in prison can vote. They do not represent a constituency in todays political logic so why would you you might visit the smallest town in iowa to pick up the delegate votes but why would you ever go to the super max and we have to rethink a lot of our assumptions, the level of different franchises that have been in this country and i think all the way down to people who were inside as well. Hispanics hispanics who just got back to the point made earlier about the digital circulation and our awareness because part of it is not just that we have become increasingly aware that people are responding in new ways and im interested to extend a rrw may be optimistic isnt the word about our view is suggestive of suggestive of some possibilities for transformation or does it strike you simply as mobilization but not whats your perspective . If i may i think this mobilization is incredibly impressive. I think some of it is technological in the sense im not sure that in Human History weve had a Pervasive Network of communications and it came at a time people remember the period before quicker or the internet. What were the three channels you got your news from . We have a kind of citizen journalism but you know what they said about the new york times. That wasnt the only newspaper. I do agree. There was this robust press that diminished between the rise in the digital age. But i think that we are at a moment where there certainly is intense organizations and attendance intense awareness and we were speaking in the green room before i was just kind of surfing around and i went to the bureau which keeps all of the fiscal data on the physical data on the criminal justice etc. We have very little about the Police Killings for example and what we do have indicates that there hasnt been much change over the past ten years so what we are seeing now has always been going on but we dont have the epidemic of Police Killings but people actually paying attention being fearless enough to feel and that technology you still have to have a human body of the recording and going there can be repercussions but i think thats where it is there is a moment where we are realizing that power mileage doesnt see anything willingly it doesnt end the unsurmountable as a moment of hope i dont want to be pollyanna ish or naive but particularly after the news of this past week one wonders how many other people die themselves and we never knew about it. I think that there is we are correct in pointing out that the papers have been an important part of getting the word out there is Something Different that there is Something Different about this moment that is ironically technology has acted as a very democratizing factor and everybody in this room has advice right now as Something Else happens to somebody else to begin surveying right away and he would be able to go home and let the rest of the world know like that that is new and different and very powerful and that is something that is cause for hope. I guess i will play that role and there is also something we have to a cautious of. It can always be reversed especially when you dont have the power for every Police Officer to have a camera and they are not already over surveyed in the first place and thats something for people to think very hard about and you dont even have to be doing anything. So we are not recording them just as a matter of course but we are catching them in the act of something but what would it mean now to be recorded just crossing the street walking to the corner that may be known for other kind of activities where youre going to get a pack of lifesavers but then its Something Else to go back to 9 11 maybe some of you feel this way but a very peculiar thing happened. The news played it over and over and over and something happened to me. The first ten times i was horrified and by the 50th time i sort of detached fascination with this awful thought to have but then been the action begins to get doubled so there is something we have to be cautious of because they are hitting the web and that by itself cannot do the work we need to do there is a way this begins to dull the senses. I am on leave currently and i feel like i come back every six days to news and facebook and somebody new. Now its like every five or six days we have another video so when that happens we have to take care we simply dont say we are seeing it it has to have the effect of motivating people and that is the danger of being so pervasive that it becomes part of the regular news stream that is being cautiously optimistic in the perspective. I agree to the whole host of images when you see the 9 11 it also spends not just into the general public but for the general public it quickly became the fire of the sentiment of the patriot act and the whole post of things so you dont have to be entirely pessimistic to understand that so i agree. On the other hand i think having this awareness is a painful thing we all have to go through and we have to make sure people are saying their names and you wont be relegated to obscure. We will make the Mainstream Media take a look at this. For all the talk of the president s bucket list as he calls if im not sure it was on his agenda to visit a prison and when he was elected the first time or even the second time. Weve moved up so much further. Im not particularly discouraging. But also not wholeheartedly pay for everything hes done and i think that we have very much given him the credit for taking the initiative to visit and you know, i think he generally wanted to do it dont get me wrong but all the work that people have been doing for years before he was elected now player at the point power is starting to acknowledge some of this. What we see through the internet and interconnectivity is very important that i want to stress on the psychological side and at the political side the importance of action of doing something and thats doing something can be giving money and it can be part of an organization and there are many ways of doing something that speaking as someone whos been through this and knows how long the struggle lasts a precursor to have meaning of doing something and then stepping away and returning to our work and when i say our work i need your work and your work i dont just mean the political work. For some people that will it will be political work and for some people it will mean running for office and for some people that it will be writing reports that well get to the fbi or the bureau of labor statistics theres so many ways of doing it that we each have our own work and if we only talk to each other or talk to the web about our we are not simply black people in anger but we are also writers, scholars, artists, whatever else it is that you do you need to do that as well. The point you make about the psychological wages also designates with respect to 9 11 read one of the consequences people talk about is those who watch the footage over and over again are unlikely to have posttraumatic stress than those that were on the ground and that there is a way to the witnessing can become a deep wound if we dont have the resources to do something in response to shifting gears a little bit one of the critiques that has emerged is about around whom we mobilize with respect to gender identity, Sexual Orientation etc. Do you see its been much more common for people to mobilize around this gender, heterosexual black men than all other categories of people have been subject of Police Violence or any other kind of deadly violence. You see the shifting. I see this as a prime example of a privileging of a male stands stance. You feel strange knowing his specially i grew up in the 1980s where things like the extinction of the black male is an entire political discourse but nonetheless that is still what it is. Theres a sort of privilege and that is a can of worms the can of worms that really becomes ultimately unproductive when you start favoring the hetero marmoset video that accompanies that you end up finding yourself in close uncomfortable company with critiques of the families that have come down since well before the report embedded in that whole line of thought that we shouldnt subscribe at all and i think the other thing about it is that it quickly puts us at the stage i can talk about my brothers keeper. I am very skeptical of it and it puts us in a mindset of gender segregation cognitively translate into policy and is also inappropriate as well as a tactic i dont think it would be productive as well. Your brothers keeper . I also agree i think whatever has happened for example is lawful and the ads instruct that its made the news it has and i think i would like to think that that is equalizing our intensive fields and so i like to hope so and i think one of the things we can think about what is happening in the background of this nobody likes the idea of marriage for example whats happening is the American Families dont tend to get how they used to look in terms of the competition so im hopeful that that can change but its one of those things also the communities cannot let america set the agenda for us to have to be accepted to it ourselves and im not sure that we can but i think part of it has to do with sort of kind of gender norms about the fight and who can be at the front lines to speak. But i have been guilty of it and when i have spoken of the issue of privileging black male victims to be sensitive to the all black wives matter then we say the catchphrase and other folks. And thats what he put up with we put up with the mobilizations in early may to put it back on the agenda and thats why its important that we have to guard out to be the are now more of the world. Ultimately, this is about politics into the action and doing. But we have to think really closely the fear that goes. The discussion that has to be offered and its important to have those voices as leaders of the movement. In some ways but is distinguished for me about this moment is that there are black activists refusing to set aside issues for the sake of some solidarity that has to but has to be in trouble part. He is now no longer new and before that, we had a charismatic year. Cory booker who is now a u. S. Senator and cory booker had a much higher profile nationally. Cory booker was a regular mayor. He didnt walk on water by any means she had a very highprofile. But what has happened in new york which doesnt have much money is that the administration has been able to topic system sources of money and support he and his administration agree to oversight which cory booker and his administration fought off, so. They have jobs in the city this summer and simply because the administration has been active reaching for the use of existing resources. What i want to say for this is first of all, when we talk on the importance of pushing on the press or the cabinet or the Administration Pushes on the local level and part of it can be our action to keep our sanity can be acting at the local level in fact i would say that its more useful and it feels better after the local level because you are working with your neighbors. The hash tag is only the beginning part of it. Politics still happens on the neighborhood level and i think that is the more productive level making change that you can see and psychologically easing your mind so that you can do the work. Stack i have one more comment going back to the hope for change shifting away from the center of what counts. I think in some sense what is happening is a better sense of hope as we are seeing in the hiphop community. I am not that old guy that ive been around for a little bit and i am not seeking any whole groups of folks coming up culturally 25 years ago would have been shoulder door. You cant wear those jeans and be a million albums holder. You cant talk like that, your hair cant look like that and be part of the community. I do think there is some loosening up in the community about what kind of identities can be counted as the ones that we Pay Attention to and i think if we look at whats going on in some of the urban culture and hiphop culture that is another source of loosening up some of the forms that have been detrimental to the community about whose lives really count. I guess i see what youre saying but i also see a contradiction of the ideas in the above hyper masculinity. That will have been on a whole other panel. It oclock come back to i want to go back to this dynamic between the local and the national reason and the International Figures because i really do agree with what youre saying now that so much politics in terms of what you could have an impact on happened at the local level and yet at the same time, for those that are marginalized against the marginal and for those that are minority within a minority in the most vulnerable population it strikes me that it does important work as well in terms of being able to have the experience and identity supported on a larger scale even if im thinking about the increase where in so many cities we are talking about a population that is vastly marginalized in all kinds of markets. Network nationally and globally in order to begin the process of lobbying and began demonstrating and protesting and organizing in ways that would be very difficult to do in a local level and also very vulnerable to. My former neighbor now they moved away, but todd at the Harvey Milk School in new york has children and young people that come from troubled backgrounds, often transgender or gay. For him, making those young peoples lives i dont if i could save better getting their cut from one day to the next to the next, that is retail action and may be because i am married to a news junkie and i hear the same things over and over again when they obsess about the National Level i am so much more focused on the local level where you can do facetoface or at least where you can do if she was the matter to the people in your community. So, for instance the schools are a very big issue, and in our previous session they were here talking about school issues. We are seeing an increasing amount of there is no praise of the retail politics of the organization. At the other side of the globe i am not sure that there wasnt a moment quite and sometime where we havent had so much International Immediate International Scrutiny on the justice here. There is now a real scrutiny among the Police Misconduct and murder that because the connections are being seen in the south. Its wonderful to see how much of that connection is going on. Having them talk to their counterparts in other countries and other languages and to break down the parochialism of the culture in which so few people know another language and a lot of people know spanish and children speaking galicia and their children continue to speak spanish. Its very english centered. I think that the Technology Point is. It allows us to get the message out. It seems resistant and impervious outside pressures. That is after world war ii. They think that some people think that and historians think that plays a role and maybe it did but again whats happening now is not necessarily new news. Its happening right here and whats holding this country to account. I dont see his wife wearing that i cant breathe, so its happened elsewhere and other people and europeans elsewhere that this is an awful thing. You can always appeal to the International Opinion how far you get with that depends on other variables but for example it covered the little rock nine. It can press these issues in a national forum. When the record at home is doing poorly how that configure is now absent the cold war is a different story which is important why the connections between the local efforts here and the connections between palestine and for example are so important because they are not just shifting here and its everywhere. The soviet union made a big change in National Politics. You were adding that the United States has had a longer in the hegemonic situation in the world and then in the cold war civil rights on the one side and the importance of the soviet union. I also know around 1964 atlarge others that large donors of americans not just black americans were feeling about the civil rights have to come. This is wrong by saying that the soviet Union Soviet Union is good to point their finger at us is this a situation. This situation is finding out that maybe the Public Opinion in the United States shift. They have an opening for say a. Of absolutely right it is a great point. It was but one factor in all of this. Not overwhelmingly even but its certainly in larger measure was part of the politics of the cold war. In his first evening he says he cannot be meeting here. This is a communistic nation he is signaling a liberal stands. Albeit it is very circumscribed and in which many of the mainstream civil rights organizations which is to say the ones lbj would have listened to. They would have the connections with the Movement Today that offers a reconfiguration which wouldnt be in any way now to the cold war at least i hope not if the intersection of the aftermath of world war ii and the cold war and also Independence Movement into the variety of ways in the late 50s and 60s and we could think of this moment also in terms of response to the various forms of mentalism. And the market the market that sort of markets of Global Capital and the vulnerability of people all across the globe if there are similarly a set of forces. They would use it as a tool but if it just has the potential to make people think anew. Its rapidly moving across the globe and is increasing except for the incredibly wealthy. We can read that they are certainly having a kind of fundamentalism with race and it strikes me the forces that are at play that may be pushing people to think its changed the conversation went over the past couple of years weve become more aware of Police Killings. Of the Police Officer must have done it for good reason. If a person isnt doing anything wrong. But then ruth comes along and kills nine people for no reason under no government sanctioned and what do you say to that, there is no else for that, it is just pure on adulterated hatred that cannot be masked by any narrative. Now youve got to bring down the flag. Then we needed to bring it down. It doesnt necessarily follow. It has to do with the rest of the world. We dont know if that is a good question but its striking to me that. But it did proceed to the right coming down on me in south carolina. I dont think that we got the kind of National Mobilization that we see around about flag for civil rights until the 1960s. And that is a lot of bloodshed and i and my family left the United States because we just couldnt take the bloodshed anymore. It was just so many people being killed and that didnt lead to anything for the longest time. A lot of people got killed in charleston and even before the president gave the eulogy they started coming down. If i heard you correctly i would share the sense of unease as well because it doesnt really translate that because you have a massacre and again im glad its down. Any discussion about the Southern Heritage is completely stupid to begin with but also disingenuous. But there is a certain masking i think as well that goes with that that is very neat. We brought down the flag, and of conversation and im not sure it is because the postconversation we havent talked for example about do we talk about this as a form of terrorism i havent seen much discussion about it. Im talking about in general. Generally speaking i dont think we have that. I forgot his first name that when he was caught in tennessee we were looking for connections anytime this happens we go looking with websites is he looking at and has he ever just looked for a School Project muslim fundamentalism and i hope some group didnt send them in here but lets be clear on his Facebook Page he is wearing a flag on his jacket. The real list is that you need not just the confederate flag, that is the real white said as he and he dont talk about who hes been talking to. Hes he is the lone gunman who showed up and fly down and flag down and that was that and somewhere there is a deeper thing going on. One of your colleagues noticed this at yale who said the photographs are posed and are sophisticated. He couldnt take those photographs by himself, which reminded me of the marvelous piece which is is a night of creating black americans and it asks who took that can you be black and look at that and its actually about a lynching that the whole question is who is on the other side of the camera and are those even coconspirators . [inaudible] spinnaker that is the art, who took the picture and how did those ingredients get in there. With abdul i think someone will rollout the patriot act around this and there is no discussion when he runs into the church. I am not saying we dont need a militarized date. You talked about receiving the patriot act 2. 0. In a national election, because we are revving up for the next president ial election we talk about local politics but to what extent do you all have any sense of hope for possibility tied to who becomes president . Our state does not move without the governor and where is our governor of New Hampshire . Or he is in iowa with the crazies. Talking their language. So, for me, you hearing me talk about the local politics and state politics. That is where i think we can put a thumb on the lever, get people voting, and make it count. I feel like the National Politics, you know, i get a billion emails from all the democrats and all the progressives in the whole world. Right. That there are a lot of people working on the national. And im just one person. So i am not working on the national right now. I am working on new jersey. I am working on newark. I am working on essex county. I differ, not that i dont think it is important but i think National Politics are highly important for the fact that, they help set the conversation and tone. And the current slate of president ial candidates on both tickets concerns me deeply. Im not trying to be flip but the gop side, i never seen anything like this. This is really, it is really, it is really wild. And it says something [inaudible]. It says something when somebody like myself thinks, hey, rand paul might not be such a bad guys right . That is really saying something. I look at democratic ticket, i dont have faith in Hillary Clinton if she were to win to come to the aid of brown people in america, unless there was some much larger benefit than, yeah, but i dont see either party producing a candidate that will do it on the ground, it is good for america to attend to the problem and that, so i mean im very concerned. I mean what do you do with your concern . I do what i do. Which is . I go to work. Thats what i do. I do my work. You do your work. Thats what i can do and im here today. A lot of people are watching cspan2 hopefully. This is with we do. When youre saying, were doing something now. Were having conversation. It is helpful. I dont count this as something. I want action. Im glad that the election isnt for somewhat 15 months from now because i dont know what i would do at the moment. I do know that i dont like my vote being taken for granted because im black. I dont like the idea what i see in some of the gop. I hope donald trump stays around a long time because i think he is hilarious. I dont think he has a shot. I love watching gaffs that he does. I dont know what is going on. In all seriousness, there is way which the Democratic Party has taken for granted our support their address of even bread and butter issues that automatically translate, directly confronting issues that apply to us and apply to people who are not black. Right. There is way rage goon hat trickle down economics. Democrats have trickle over. If which talk about one group, that the black people will melt away. Without getting up what racism looks like and ininstructional and other phases inequality and not specifically for africanamericans and people of color. The dem this fiction we helpmiddle class and, that is trickle over economics. Im not sure that is whole bottom letter than trick a whole lot better than trickle down. The primary is coming so way down in the middle of 2016. Yeah, yeah. I mean coming in terms of, not november. I still have a little bit of time to think it through, yeah. You know in terms of once again, local and state politics, these decisions keep getting made on local level, almost month by month because we have so many elections. And i would like to see us be invested in those elections as well as the ones in which, as voters we are one of, what, 150 million if everybody voted. Im thinking about the confederate flag. Were talking about voting. Im thinking, that, one of the forces that i would say was really important, in the change, was the fact that there is now significant black electorate in south carolina. I bet that is the single largest pressure making black south carolinians and as south carolinians and as people not represented by the confederate flag. The tragedy that a member of the state senate was assassinated, that made a difference as well. But, when we talk about the court of tsunami of politics, black voting i think, has made, maybe, a revolution as, is too strong of a word for it, but it made all the difference in the world. This is in some way related but one of the things been discussed particularly if florida, growing puerto rican population and multiracial and that being significant for the next president ial election. But it also, i think opens the door for us to have some discussion about immigration and politics of race with respect to that. We saw in terms of digital activism around there, there has been significant attention, for example, to, to whats happening to haitians in the Dominican Republic in part, right. So were, we see a growth in a set of concerns about race internationally. I think the way we talk about immigration has historically been in the United States, not historically, but last decade or two focused on latinos. We have black population and urban centers where block and milt at this ethnic to what extent are those kinds of, that set of issues you think, sort of should be primary with talking about how race functions currently in the United States . I think background comment as to, i have always been, i think a little bit skeptical about, about the way race and immigration can come together in a way that can push, push the issue of race in america forward. I think one of the things, only comment i make, in this area, i study intensely, but, a lot of what happens in america today, were more than 100 years past, still the idea of one drop rule is still very, very powerful. Way which even, for example, im a puerto rican man. People assume im black because i selfidentify as racially black, ethnically puerto rican. It wouldnt make a difference to Police Officer, right, for example. Wait, stop, im puerto rican. Right . [laughter]. You got the wrong guy, right . That wouldnt make a difference. The only thing i say historical backdrop immigration occurs and people are parsed and separated psychologically about those with power, how that plays out. That is all i say about the threat comment out there. I think the immigration i think large numbers of welleducated people from africa and to certain extent caribbean will make a big difference in ethnic, already makes a difference in certain places like my new jersey, your new jersey, that immigrants are less burdened by tragic side of africanAmerican History and more able to take advantage of the tremendous opportunities of american culture. This is true no matter where immigrants came from. This is something i will do and not deal with all of this other stuff. Let me do what need to do. So there is advantage, in energy terms for immigrants, no matter where they come from. The Second Generation that is out there. Just american slobs, right . We see this at princeton, some of the black students are themselves immigrants and children of immigrants. Very often of parents of their immigrants are very welleducated which has been the key to advantages of asian immigrant. That the immigrant generation is heavily welleducated. So black ethnicity is much more complicated already than it was a generation ago. It will continue to continue to be complicated. Complicated in the sense of many people coming from various places. Complicated because we have now more voluntary immigrants from the african continent than we have involuntary immigrants in the slave trade era. That is, just the sense ever possibility. The sense of freedom that immigrants and their children bring. So i wouldnt be surprised in the next census, one after that, we have ethnicity at this time within black as well, in the way that we dont anymore for black or white. 100 years ago there were ethnicities within white. You had to say, where you were born and where your parents were born and how many people were immigrants. That went away as white people got, they thought, homogenized. I think this will change with with the tide of african descended immigrants. It is a very interesting time. Oh, okay. Do you have any thoughts . Well, i think the way immigration is, is discussed i think in kind of a capital p politics, which is to say on electoral level. There dont seem to be that many new ideas coming from there and the challenge for us is to make, to see the similarities. To make the linkages, political connections as well. There are,s of people who live in varying states of precarety, visavis this kind of national, this fiction of citizenship, right . Citizenship itself is very gated. Everyone has denation of equals, some are more can equal than others and some have more citizenship. There is larger burden we have to share across some other groups. In california or los angeles anyway, half the incidents of murder or Police Brutality are born by latino population. That is clearly not what we see from south carolina, mississippi, alabama. There is clearly linkage right there. I think also in terms of the comments of crisis for democracy, how do we remake a democracy or at least try to fine tune this thing. There is where we have to think expansively. I might sound like oldfashioned kind of liberal on this but expanding the franchise is one of those things. You dont have to apologize for that. I feel like i do, but i dont know. Voting isnt everything but voting is a lot. Voting, is a lot. Were at a time voting relative to the population, we might be at alltime low. Yeah. The title of this panel, moment of crisis. With such suppressed voter. Im not just talking about general apathy, which is still there. Im not sure apathy is as high as people discouraged or who cant vote because of criminal records or obstacles cycles. There is Police Officers saying if you vote and you have Child Support that will be last ballot you cast in a while. Voter i. D. Laws. Voter i. D. Laws,. People to vote at supermarket in newark. All kinds of people said, already registered. Reminded them about the next election. Some people said, i dont vote, like it was a principled situation. Some people said, im still on parole, i cant vote. So all those things happen. It is kind of, i dont want to get on a soapbox that people clearly part of our polity dont have a say in it. Where do we go from here any think that is really one of the places there. There are entire place, entire gulag of prisons can be written off in in anybodys political calculus. There is no votes to be gained there, at all. We have to wait for wellintentioned president with a bucket list. See you at the shop list. Im not registered in the state of new jersey. That doesnt disqualify me from registering people, does it . I want to step back just for a second from voting although i think it is still relevant. But this discussion, you raised this point to him about varying levels. Varying lefts of precarity people confront. There are people without documentation and people without papers. There are people wrought papers or cant access birth certificates or Social Security cards and ways with people, folks who are incarcerated various kinds of exclusions from full exercise of participation and membership. Given that why is it so difficult to forge alliances across these other perceived differences whether National Identity or ethnicity . What is hampering that . I can tell you one thing. Here i come right back to newark. The relationship between jobs and politics is like this. Patronage jobs. So, its a question of jostling over turf. Who is in charge and who is going to allocate the jobs. It is a real thing. There is another thing, nells point about what happens when folks come here already educated previously, et cetera. There is no strategy. I dont mean some kind of a shouting conspiratorial way. No set of strategy to divide people with interest. Give you example. I live in knew haven connecticut live in predominantly latino neighborhood to primarily black neighborhoods. If you go through latino neighborhoods, there is something happen, a lot of folks in the neighborhood, theyre poorer, but there are businesses, independentlyowned businesses. Some people own homes. Some people rent homes. You go to the black neighborhood the city has completely, seems if this is a different place, right . As you move through these areas, go to east rockford, mostly white and whole other story, right . I think part of issue about forging alliances, if you think youre doing a little bit better that the other group will hold you back down either because of stigma attached to them or they dont have the connections this is not my area of expertise. Common senseallies that is one obstacle getting alliances, you will be a bit of dead weight because you dont have the pull to people to be able to listen to you, people dont respect your community as much, et cetera. That is one thing i think thats problem. Okay. Im sorry. Hold that thought. We have former mayor dinkins. David dinkins, coming out. [applause] hi. [applause] good afternoon. Good afternoon. I didnt know i would have this privilege. But im delighted to have it. Im. Im supposed to be outside signing books. They offered me an opportunity to come in and greet you folks. And i of course seized upon it. Told my they had some real intellectuals here. Im not to be confused with them. So i, if you have, spirit moves you i hope you will stop by barnes noble outside and pick up a book. The purpose of writing a book and and trying to promote it in the first instance, not to make money. Stalk about a lot of wonderful people who did great and good things when we were privileged to serve this city. That we did right get credit and where things were not done the way they should have been i will take the blame. I hope you stop out to take a look at it if you have not already. I have got someone back here, dave, you know, you have got to go now. But i thought that if you or they had a question or two i might try to be responsive. Yes, maam . Mayor dinkins, we keep asking what it is that keeps different parts of a community separate like latino neighborhood and africanamerican neighborhood and african neighborhood and white neighborhood. What keeps them from working together . One obviously they ought not be separate. The title of a book weve done, a mayors life, governing new yorks gorgeous mosaic. Went to school in harlem a little while, a very, very long time ago. We were taught that new york citys a melting pot. But it is not a melting pot. I say its a gorgeous mosaic. They speak more than, more than 100 languages in wines, for instance. We need not to permit folks to divide us. We really need to come together because our interests are the same. And, i dont know why it is the way it is. People almost every year around dr. Kings birthday, the question is put, has dr. Kings dream has been realized. Of course the response is, in the negative, no, it hasnt. But things are, are better. Not what they ought to be but thank god not what think used to be. May i follow that up . Yes, maam. You create ad multiracial, cross class coalition. How did you go about that . Well, i had a some really good people. Some of you here know of bill lynch, for instance, died much too early at 72. Still difficult for me to talk about him, but he was a large part of the reason that we were able to put together the group we had. , some folks worked with us not only did i know them but never heard of. Basil paterson, i assume you know these names. But basil said to me, you know you will need a counsel . I know, basil, but who . I got just the guy, george daniels. I said whos he . He was a judge. I said he will never give that up. He said, oh, ask him. He is one of smartest, nicest guys you will every meet. He is now a federal judge. Before i left i appointed him back to the criminal court bench. He got elected to the Supreme Court and clinton made him a federal judge. We call him the heavy judge because there was a time in harlem where we were making plans for a community center. James l. Watson, who was a federal judge. He was the chairman of the gripe. One saturday afternoon, brothers and sisters were getting anxious. Said, man, come on, lets go. I got to go. He said, no, man, we have to wait for the judge. So in the door walked herb evans. Who was a state Supreme Court judge. There is a judge there. Said no, man i mean the heavy judge. [laughter]. So,. So hence forth fed ral judges are known has heavy judges. I had a lot of good people. Basil was the chairman of our Judiciary Committee this is nonpaid position. You got to understand. If i had two appointments, they bring me three or four people, it didnt matter which one i picked, they were all that good. So we had more women, more gays, more people of color, than ever before. But, it was because of basil. He did it. He too is gone much, much too early. So it is no exaggeration we got some good things done. Some things we didnt do as well as we might have, and i will accept the blame for that. But we got a lot of good things done. Every now and then somebody remembers them, not too often but every once in a while. It is because of these folks. I mean they were outstanding. Many of them are now in government. Some of them working for de blasio. , some not. There was one guy, carl weisbrod, at the very last anyone in 93 when im about to lock city hall door and hand rudy the key, i mean it is that late. And carl came rushing into city hall with a memorandum of flooding to be signed by the deputy mayor for finance and economic development. The last minute. Now what would most of us have been doing that late in the game. You would be out circulating your resume trying to get a job. He was still working on one that he had. The agreement that he brought in was for the disney deal, that started cleanup of times square. So, he did that. We had a lot of women and men, oh, god, they were good. They were really good. So that is why, that is the reason for the book, honest to god, it really is. And, i wont go chapter by chapter through the book, i promise you that but i think you will find it interesting reading it is imperfect, errors made, things we could have said differently, i wish i had. For instance, the the report socalled on Crown Heights and governor mario cuomo said to me, i sort of watered it down. It was bad, but wasnt that bad because he sort of water it down in the book, i should not have said it, if you see me and a bear in a fight, you help the bear. [laughter] that was politics. It was not gracious to make that kind of comment but it is there in writing. So anyway i hope you read it, i thank you all for giving me this opportunity. [applause] yes, sir. Steve, thank you. So thank you for being here. Wonderful to have you join us. I think given the conversation we were having which you were not aware of, there is a question that we could add, and extend, which is, we have seen debates about racial representation in executive positions as well as in our police departments. Given your tenure at a time of tremendous racial turmoil and upheaval around policing and racial violence, hawkins come to mind. Patrick lynch was in the news in the wake of eric garners death. Seems you are one of the few people who could comment how we are to think about whats happened in baltimore, the change in leadership. The response to the death of freddie gray, the recent chains in the city in the one year anniversaries in response to the death of eric garner. I think this is great time to capitalize on your experience there, thank you. Thank you. I am the chairman of the aduallo foundation. Im sure everybody here recalls that. We were so youd raged about that, charles rangel, al sharpton, i, a handful of others, we decided to get arrested at police plaza. And so the police were very, very nice. They said, well, mayor, we can take you out of the back. I said man, this is the point. Go out the front so folks can see. [applause] so mrs. Diallo, is amazing, gracious woman and our foundation continues. But there have been too many instances like that. You will recall 41 rounds fired. 19 of them hit him. He had no weapon. Was not threatening anybody. I mean, damn. I mean, and, there are equally outrageous circumstances. Gray, in back of that van, oh, so we continue to be outraged by these things. The one thing that know is absolutely necessary, it is what we refer to as community policing. The police need the community and the Community Needs the police. Most of the people who commit crimes are apprehended in the final analysis because of cooperation with the community. Folks living in the community dont want people among them committing crimes where they too often are the victims. So were very much mindful of that. And i think that, among the things we need is what i Call Community policing and for our young people, education is absolutely essential. Old folks like me, i last, just the other day, july 10th, i turned 88. So i am old. [applause] but we owe you young people the ability, the capacity to achieve your potential. We owe you that. Each generation should be better than the one before. And, my bride and i, were fortunate, we have a little boy and a little girl. The little boy is 61. [laughter] and and terrific. We had a couple of grandchildren. I mean god has blessed us. And makes a difference but we owe and not just our own children. I maintain i have lots of kids. I have lots of kung people with whom i worked and i feel that way about them. So, if one we accept that it is our responsibility, we have an obligation, to see to it that our young people get appropriately educated, and are not illtreated by police or anybody else. I better go sign these books. Thanks a lot. [applause] what a gift that was. I think were actually at the time where we want to open the floor for questions. Hello. I am your essex county sister. Dr. Painter. I am also involved on the local level. Im on the local school board and one of the things that, i want to ask you all as a panel, especially the conversation between local versus national, versus state. I mean fundamentally i they all tie together. You cant win on the local level when the state is doing things that are ultimately undoing what youre trying to do if you look at educational funding in new jersey. You see its quite a mess, corrupt, and national plays in as well. And, when you look at your point on the lack of engagement around politics and voting at alltime low, i started voting local in 2005 when we moved to bloomington, indiana. Even just trying to find out who these people were on a ballot was very difficult, even in the internet age. So, but youre right in that the impact of local is immediate. Involvement on local level can have immediate impact. That is one of the best ways to hook people into start engaging. How do we battle against what happened with social media and Attention Span Attention Span of a nat in new generations to allow folks to engage enough to commit on that in local level to grow that state into national. How do we do that . Again speaking about essence county and newark and new jersey, for the, when i see in newark, when people are around the schools, for instance, when parents see their kids school closing, so it is not in the abstract. It is, is an issue that affects me. Here is then how i can do something about it. But you point out a real my husband and i have phds. We have so much trouble finding out who we are voting for and part of that is the loss of the starledger which is, we still read the newspaper every day but whats in the newspaper is less and less and less. So, you know, if i were a fulltime political person, i would do two things. Would i create a way for people to know who is running for what and, of course i would put my spin on it. This is what they stand for. And the other is, heres some very clear guidelines for voting. So when i was out there at the stoppage, is shoprite, i was with people in the Baptist Church that go to, bethany Baptist Church and they have just a little foldover on an eight 1 2 by 10 here is who can vote. People dont know that. [inaudible] kind of related to what the other lady just said, i have been in the field of Mental Health for about 40 years and so i certainly witness people approach crises and crises can either mobilize them for actions, or it can paralyze them. Those that are able to mobilize for action are usually helped to tolerate level of some uncertainty. And what i think often happens with our community is that were not approaching or perceiving experience were in, oppression were in, as a chronic problem. It is not a print that were in. This is a Long Distance run. When i think of what were in and how we need to approach this, these next steps, i think of a, of former harlemite, an elder, Professor John henry clark. , who always spoke about the cronic but the longstanding march that our people have taken towards liberation. I never forget the phrase he always used, our approach would be, bury the man and continue the plan. That our efforts should not be centered around a personality but the fact that there is Indigenous Leaders within every community and where we stand. Thats where we can begin and thats why i like what you were saying, professor painter, about doing your work. What i, my question to the panel is that i think people often confuse political power with partisanship which doesnt have to be the same thing. What id like to know is, what kind of institutions we need to be developing in our communities that could help us become connected and mobilized around personal issues that are of interest to us that we could be working on and poised to take advantage of at a time something comes to the fore we need to take action on, as opposed to just coming together around crisis and crisis and crisis . That we would already be together as an organization. Thats where i think were lacking. Were always starting from square one, as opposed to already being poised to take advantage of opportunities. Or crises. What i have seen happening [applause] is that people start, you could call it a crisis, start with an issue that affects them personally. And then, what often happens is that people will mobilize, say, newarkrun schools. But then they, it falls apart. People are not experienced using their power politically. I will not speak to the issue of psychology here. Because i think thats a, thats a therapeutic side that that politics or political mobilization will not address. But in newark, in essex, no, in rutgers, newark, a longtime activist, julius williams, runs a group, runs a, you know it is an ongoing seminar for local people who are mobilized. And he helps them find those skills of translating your agitation into moving the leaders of power. So you need somebody who has the experience and the knowledge who is willing to make that an ongoing seminar. I agree. I agree. If i could Say Something on this point. It has become, it has become, especially in the wake of black lives matter, we dont need the charismatic leader anymore. This is the peoples movement. I want to put in a plug for charismatic leader and ill tell you why. This is my Political Science training coming up, being important to be politically active is resources. One of the most valuable resources is time. People dont have time. They have jobs to get to if they have jobs theyre looking for. Jobs wont let them have time off. One of the thing that personalities or charismatic leaders help do, resource people or people making a sacrifice but they help keep other people in the game, precisely to be in the political game require as longterm commitment, most people, they would surely like to make it but some of them many of them simply cant, but energy them on the ground, always let them know what is going on why, it is going on and let them know at the moment because something is happening somewhere else. That is what i want to say, i things could be fashionable. The fashionable is that we dont need one leader anymore. Actually think, leaders, that people can rally around, theyre not just simply kind of inofficer race inspirational, function for people that dont have the privileges to be politically active and we should be careful not to become dependent on them. That is absolutely right. They also become very easy targets to be knocked off. And then the movement dissolves. So i think there is a plus on either side. That is absolutely right. I think thats right. Thank you. I want to also to add, i would like that point about leadership. The historian, theorist, organizer, Barbara Ramsey has a piece in color lines magazine the myth about the leaderless movement. She calls about the structure as well, in case a leader will not be there that you have a structure and you have the organizational capacity to keep moving on. Fortunately, were creating vibrant new organizations now. But unfortunately some of those are already existing to take some of that capacity as well. So i was also thinking about our previous immigration question. If you look at writings of christina greer, dorian warren, political scientists talk about immigration and labor unions, for example, clearly these are places where there are ethnic divisions between just not just black versus nonblack but within black communities. But also a lot of ground, a lot of common ground. Lets be clear, like the Labor Movement right now is poised to do, to be an agent of change. It is involved in ways it hasnt involved in many progressive issues in ways it hasnt really since the 80s maybe. So i encourage everyone to keep eye on what happens there as well. There is way we assume the crisis moment is where we should be looking. Some organizations are right here. Many progressive unions have been around a long time as well. Follow up to the observations about the woman who commented about needing ongoing organizational activities. So the example, i wanted to remind people of, which i know a number of you know, the work of the womens political caucus in montgomery, alabama, which created itself and worked on discrimination and segregation on the buses. And so when there was he have the rosa parks, arrest, as you suggested, there was an opportunity to activate a whole network of people in the city of montgomery, which led to the montgomery busboy cot which was successful. That is wonderful idea and something that should come out of black lives matter. Idea of having network of people, examples of professor painter gave of gentleman organizing. Julius williams. The inissue of charismatic leader, you baker was critical of charismatic leader, dr. Martin luther king a leader of the flc and black minister was problematic for the black community. Baker is a charismatic leader but organizational leader without the public presence she has come to take on and as academics write histories of her life. Just, you know, kind of piggybacking on that, theres ways in which we dont recognize Women Leaders as having charisma. Charisma, this isnt just about this moment. I think this is probably kind in a western civilization kind of deeplyembodied in our culture, we think of charisma often being a masculine trait. We really need to rethink what is leadership and particularly what is charismatic leadership. For someone like he will la baker and Barbara Ramsey who written a biography of baker, she knows leadership is very important but it is trickery, right . Certainly someone like fannie baker is a charismatic. I have a question related to thread of the conversation were having and related to some of what ive been writing on recently, theres, we both have a history of organizations that did varying kind of advocacy work of bringing political pressure but we also historically asking americans with a rich associational life did a lot of activity and did work internally in the community. Im thinking of for example, the National Association of teachers in colored schools where every state would have an organization in addition to there being a National Organization and they worked on issues like, knowing best practices educationally. Knowing, thinking about how were going to, about how to collect data. How to as well as advocating for equalization of resources so that the joining of organizations as part of a kind of a Cultural Practice seems to have waned generally. You dont think so . No. But i do think so. But, but the, well, i guess the other part of the question for me, to what extent also is significant, visavis developing the kind of trust and interdependence that is necessary for waging some of these battles . Because the point that was raised by the, i guess the person who spoke to about, about the vulnerability or the dangers of charisma, also has a point about trust, right and, being able to depend on each other in the context of the movement. Yeah. One. Things i discovered when i did creating black americans, a whole raft of new originally they were called black cause consists since the 80s. Within desegregated organizations, there is a black caucus of Airline Pilots and a black caucus of law professors and a black caucus of history professors and a black caucus of philosophy professors. Want membership in that one. So, as the need arises people do come together. So i dont think you should despair about organizing around Interest Groups, around racial Interest Groups because you know, as long as were an organizations in which we feel that people arent getting our issues, people, two philosophers will come together. And agitate somehow to put issues on the table. So all is not lost. Other thing about julius williams, he is a special person he has been active in newark for 30 years. He has really deep roots and a lot of knowledge. He is a lawyer but probably there is somebody like that in places that have universities. This is not somebody who is not untutored. He knows how to get things done. There is a life cycle of outrage, organizations or groups of people that come together around a crisis or outrage, that they Work Together for a while. Then somebody gets jealous. Then there is back biting. And then it all falls apart. It turns out you can for see this, 3arn people and give them some ways of working around that and getting past that and continuing to Work Together. On the same issue or perhaps on new issues that come up. Hi. Fascinating conversation. Thank you so much. I was thinking, can you guys hear me . Yes. I was thinking about, were publishing in the James Baldwin reviewing inaugural, never seen before, 19 pages an forwards by plea and the guy who did it in 1969, you guys will be blown away. In that interview baldwin talks about the paucity of language civil rights with is decidedly american term. Civil rights is decidedly american term. But what he says is really provocative for me and you guys i hope is that there is no such thing as a Civil Rights Movement. There is always a White Movement to maintain a certain kind of power and black folks organize to check that. What do you think of that . The idea somehow folks arent organizing as like a black thing but instead responding directly, not defensively to why power regrouping and reorganizing to shut us down . My own guess what i know about baldwins book is, i wouldnt attribute to him the idea there was organization. He had various ways of indicting people in groups. I think one of the things, one of the things he seemed to be trying to say in that kind of a statement is Something Like the following. Movements are the kinds of things that people proactively take on to create something new and what blacks folks are doing. Theyre not just creating something new, just trying to get what they had to be in first place. So how could that be in a movement . The movement was to bring people here around keep them down. That was the movement. I think that is how that i read that kind of a thing. Yeah. Not knowing this, and not being a scholar of baldwin, i think i will let you have the words. I would just add, i mean i think theres also increasingly were hearing that people involved in the movement resisting the terms, Civil Rights Movement and talking about how they talked about it as the freedom movement. There is a way in which the language of the Civil Rights Movement really contains the political vision so that it is, then it is described as the movement for the recognition of a set of political rights, that ends right, that has a transient ending with passage of voters rights acts but ignores watts two weeks later and ignores the, continued movement around issues with respect to economic inequality and Police Brutality and all those other sorts of things. So i do think we have jobs. Jobs. We have to engage in corrective of the way the language limits us. This sounds likes this is an important entryway into doing that. Any other questions . Panelists, do you have any questions for each other . I was actually, im not making any art these days. Im writing a memoir. It is called, old in arts school. [laughter] because i was old in arts school. The first thing people ask me mason gross, how old are you . I said 64. What are you working on . What am i working on . Yes. Im working on history of race and drug addiction politics from the 60s to the 90s. A long time ago, relative term. There was called a crisis in heroin addiction. Under that rubric we expanded police forces. We passed rockefeller drug laws. We circulated sometimes various interesting and definition of addiction and recovery and rehabilitation. And, im looking forward to finishing it. My summer is not quite done. So i still have some writing time. Right now im working on intellectual history of black lives matter, as a matter of fact. Trying to, there ising, there is