To tier three, the lowest rating. State Department Officials outlined the hearing at a hearing of the Foreign Relations committee. This is about an hour. Foreign Relations Committee will come to order. This morning, we will continue our oversight efforts with regard to 2017 trafficking in persons report. I want to thank senator cardin and members of the committee for their leadership and engagement in combatting this affront to Human Dignity and the rule of law. This committee has conducted extensive oversight on this issue. We have instituted annual briefings for members of the committee with the opposite trafficking and persons ambassador and regional bureaus at the state department. Prior to the release of the annual trafficking in persons report, we ask every nominee before this committee to commit to help lead the fight against modern slavery. This oversight has been noted at the state department and in our embassies. We appreciate that the deputy secretary of state volunteered to lead the administrations testimony today. Secretary, its been about 45 minutes with cardin and i before the meeting and we thank him very much for his openness and the way that he is serving, and we look forward to having an outstanding relationship with him. We thank you for being here today. I know the secretary of state wanted to be here. He had an unplanned trip to the middle east. We thank you for sitting in. We thank you for the elevation of this issue at the state department. And again, you being here. The deputys attendance demonstrates the state departments interest in the stability of this report after the ambassador finishes her assignment. We also want to welcome ambassador susan coppedge, who agrees to remain in her post to insure the continuity with the 2017 report. We appreciate her leadership and service. I have to say that i think you have been outstanding. I think there are people around the world that have benefitted greatly from your service. Certainly, we have. And i cannot thank you enough for your leadership. Or your dedication to this issue. And i hope our paths cross many, many times in the future. We also appreciate the secretary of state tillerson and ivanka trump personally and passionately led the rollout of the 2017 report in a packed room. A great event, and i was glad to be there. I would like to begin by commending ambassador coppedge at the state department with the focus of this years report on the responsibility of government to criminalize Human Trafficking and hold offenders accountable. Human trafficking largely is for profit. Theres no greater term than to make it clear that perpetrators and those who collaborate with them will pay a heavy price for these crimes. This years report contains specific elements that our country and other countries can use to prosecute the crime of modern slavery. I hope that compiling this years report, you will continue to highlight examples of progress and prosecution to scrutinize where corruption and lack of progress are failing victims of modern slavery. The 2015 report on how it was perceived did real damage to this issue. And were still recovering from that. We all need to continue to reenforce trust in the process of developing a report and tier rankings. We are careful not to politicize the oversight process. And that remains important. I do believe that beginning last year and again this year, the state department has taken the integrity of the report seriously, and we thank you very much for that. Senator cardin, there may be questions about some of the outcomes, but one of the things absolutely everyone feels is there was no politicization. There may have been differences in judgment, but we appreciate the integrity with which this was put together. Finally, i would like to thank secretary tillerson for announcing as the trafficking persons report rolled out, the state department is proceeding with a 1. 5 billion Slavery Initiative that senator menendez and i first presented to the committee in 2015. This is a critical step in the effort to end slavery globally. To quote theresa may, victims will only find freedom if we cultivate a radically new global and coordinated pruapproach to defeat this vile crime. Ill turn to my friend, senator cardin. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Before i comment on todays hearing on the trafficking in persons report, let me just share with our colleagues that the chairman and i have been very focused on trying to get the russia sanction bill passed in the United States house of representatives. And i want to thank the chairman. We expressed as much flexibility as we possibly can to our colleagues in the house to deal with their particular procedural issue. We dont think thats a problem. And we want to make sure that this bill is passed as quickly as possible in the house. And in the form that it passed the United States senate. I want to thank the chairman for his cooperation. We have been working without any difference here in trying to get this bill passed in the house. It passed 982. I reminded secretary sullivan in that bill is the requirement for review before any sanction relief is given. And i particularly mention that because a press report concerning the compounds in new york and maryland, and we consider that a really a major affront to congress if action was taken on that without working with the members of congress. Let me thank you very much, mr. Chairman, for this hearing. This hearing, as we will review the most recent trafficking in persons report, as you pointed out, this is one of the great moral challenges of our time. It is modern day slavery. Just last week, i was not present, but another had i wear is the Ranking Member of the helsinki commission. We had our annual meeting of the Osce Parliamentary Assembly in minsk. And our delegation was very much actively engaged in this issue of trafficking. The u. S. Leadership on this globally has been a huge difference. It was the leadership of the United States congress and the United States government that has raised this issue to the international community, making it clear we will not tolerate trafficking in persons. And that we will take all necessary steps to end this tragedy. It distorts labor markets. It destroys people. Erodes community and undermines stability and rule of law and is fueled by corruption, greed, and violence. We will continue in our trafficking in persons report to me is the Gold Standard for what is used to have all countries do better. I mentioned previously when foreign guests come into my office, whether theyre heads of state or foreign ministers, i have the trafficking in persons report in my office and will review that countrys need for additional progress in order to deal with this. So it was with great anticipation that we had this hearing, and look forward to the 2017 report. I want to thank you for your extraordinary leadership on this issue. We know youll be doing other things, and i want to first and foremost acknowledge that the 2017 report represents the professional dedication that we expect to see in the trafficking in persons report. And im very pleased with the manner in which this report was handled and the way that decisions were made. It doesnt mean that i agree with all the decisions that were made. I think in regards to china, i applaud you. I think that was absolutely the right decision. And i know that it came with some political and diplomatic challenges. And it was the right thing to do. And i applaud you on it. Im going to talk a little bit about malaysia because i am concerned about what happened in malaysia. It was upgraded to tier two. That was one of the major countries that we were concerned about, the manner in which it was handled in 2015, because of the apparent connections between the decision made in the t. I. P. Report and the tpp negotiations taking place. Senator menendez was one of the principle leaders. He had legislation on this, et cetera, and it seemed to be a very political decision made in 2015. Malaysia is home to more than 2 million documented migrant labors, and millions more of undocumented laborers. Many who face labor, but malaysia was only able to identify over 1500 trafficking victims. Thats all they could identify. Moreover, malaysia has yet to prosecute any of the malaceous officials in their involvement in the smuggling rings and the mass graves found on the border in 2015. Incredible tragedy in which theres been virtually no progress made in resolving that issue. And during the 2017 reporting period, malaysian authorities released 12 Police Officers suspected of trafficking. Again, raising questions as to the countrys commitment. I know the numbers are higher on the number of cases that have been brought. But as far as concrete results, i havent seen it, and i would be interested as to why the upgrade was made. Im also happy that secretary sullivan is here because i am concerned as to how the reorganization will affect our ability to deal with trafficking issues. I know there is discussions being made in regards to the elimination of the bureau of population refugee and migration, and some of those functions being handled by the department of homeland security. I also know there is consideration the Consular Affairs office being transferred to the department of homeland security. I think in both of those cases it would compromise not only the mission of the department of state that i think is critically important, but how we deal with trafficking moving forward. So i look forward to the secretarys testimony and i look forward to our discussion today. Thank you very much. With that, our first witness is deputy secretary of state, john sullivan. We welcome you here. Our second witness today is ambassador at large to monitor susan coppedge. Were grateful both of you are here and doing the jobs that youre doing and have done. If you take about five minutes to summarize, we would appreciate it. We look forward to questions after that, and please just proceed in the order introduced. Thank you. Good morning. Thank you, mr. Chairman, senator cardin, members of the committee. Im honored to appear before you again today to discuss the important topic of the 2017 trafficking in persons report, which the state Department Released last month. Im grateful for the opportunity to testify about the report. The state department is also grateful for the committees leadership and input on this issue and on human rights and democracy more broadly. Individual liberty and the freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly, and the right to petition the government are at the core of who we are as americans. Secretary tillerson and i share a personal commitment in this regard. And were proud of the significant efforts across the department of state to protect and promote individual freedom. Through hearings like this one and strong legislation backed by this committee, you have been consistent and tireless in fighting the acidious crime of Human Trafficking. I look forward to our continued collaboration on this and our broader efforts to defend the worlds most vulnerable. I would also like to particularly to thank ambassador at large susan coppedge, who leads the state Departments Office to monitor and combat trafficking in persons. Also known as the t. I. P. Office. Susan and her team have done a remarkable job. Not only in producing the detailed report that has been released, but also through efforts to encourage foreign officials, ngo leaders and others around the world to join us in this fight. At the public rollout of the report in june, secretary tillerson read a sobering line from the preamble of the trafficking victims protection act of 2000. Quote, as the 21st century begins, the degrading institution of slavery continues throughout the world. 17 years later, there are still more than an estimated 20 million victims of Human Trafficking. But the secretary also encouraged us to join in a shared hope, that the 21st century will be the last century of Human Trafficking. The t. I. P. Report is an instrument that will help us to make that hope become a reality. Its not only a symbol of u. S. Global leadership on combatting Human Trafficking, but a diagnostic tool to assess government efforts across the three ps. Prosecuting traffickers, protecting and empowering victims, and preventing future trafficking crimes. Since the enactment of the tvpa in 2000, and the t. I. P. Reports first publication in 2001, the report has prompted Foreign Governments to enact comprehensive legislation, prosecute human traffickers, establish National Action plans, implement an antitrafficking policy, and programs that protect victims. And conduct prevention campaigns. The focus of this years report is on governments responsibility to criminalize Human Trafficking in all its forms and to prosecute offenders. It also emphasizes the responsibility of governments to enforce antitrafficking laws, to prevent the use of child soldiers, and to prosecute corrupt officials who choose to turn a blind eye. To combat Human Trafficking effectively, governments must also root out complicity and corruption by Law Enforcement and Public Officials. The report makes clear that many countries are taking this issue seriously. Id like to emphasize some of the positive efforts countries have made in the past year that are discussed in the report. As secretary tillerson noted, afghanistan serves as an example of progress. Last summer, president ghani ordered an investigation into the institutionalized sexual abuse of children by Security Forces and promised punishment for perpetrators. In january of this year, the Afghan Government enacted a new law to criminalize the practice of a practice that exploits boys for social and sexual entertainment. We will continue to work with the Afghan Government toward even greater progress this year as they build on these efforts to investigate, prosecutor, and convict traffickers, including complicit government officials. Ukraine is another example. The country has been on the watch list for four years. But was upgraded to tiertwo status this year because of its efforts to improve the investigation of trafficking. This has led to the arrest and conviction of Police Officers, Public Officials and oerbts found to be complussant or willfully negligent in the trafficking of boys and girls under their care. Theyre on notice that complicity in trafficking leads to strict punishment in ukraine, but unfortunately, some countries have backpedaled. China has not taken serious steps to end its own complicity in trafficking. Tens of thousands of koreans are working overseas as forced laborers, primarily in china and russia. The north korean regime profits, making hundreds of millions on the backs of their exploited citizens working abroad. Responsible nations cannot allow this. Because of chinas lack of significant efforts to address and eliminate trafficking, china was downgraded to tierthree. The report, the t. I. P. Report is one component of the state departments year round effort to combat Human Trafficking around the world. It informs our former assistance programming to develop antitrafficking strategies for each region and to prioritize countries according to their need for assistance and their political will to make improveme improvements. We use the analysis and recommendations as a road map to guide u. S. Diplomacy on Human Trafficking so our ambassadors and officials at every level can engage with foreign counterparts to encourage renewed efforts in this fight. I commit to you today that i engage with Foreign Government as i engage with Foreign Government officials, i will, like many of you, raise antitrafficking concerns as well as broader human rights issues. All countries, including our own, including the United States, have more to do to fight to end modern slavery. Im proud of the progress reflected in the 2017 t. I. P. Report, but theres much more work to do to make the 21st century the last for Human Trafficking. Weree eager to work with congress to that end and i look forward to your questions. Thank you so much. Ambassador. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator cardin. Press the button. Now you can hear me. Thank you, mr. Chairman, senator cardin, and members of the committee. It is a real privilege to be here before you today on an issue to which we are all dedicated. Im honored to join deputy secretary sullivan and happy to answer questions on this years t. I. P. Report. I also have to say im very humbled by the kind words that have been spoken about me this morning, but the effort to produce this report is a state Department Wide effort. There are fabulous staff in the t. I. P. Office here. Our Embassy Personnel around the world, none of this hard work could be done without them. And im the beneficiary of that hard work and dedication by the state department employees. Hearings like this are very important to highlight the u. S. Governments commitment to combat trafficking. And the t. I. P. Report is used not only by governments but also by ngos and Civil Society members, some of whom are here today and many of whom will be watching. This conversation is a valuable opportunity to discuss the reports analysis and how it can be used as an effective tool to help improve government responses around the world. I look forward to discussing the report with you. Well, thank you. I again thank you both for your testimony. I know there will be numbers of written questions and some here today about some of the actual results. I would like to talk to you a little bit about just the bigger picture. I think for those people here in the audience, most of whom are interested in this issue and spent years on this issue, but they may be surprised at some of the things that were even cited in johns opening comments about what is happening around the world. And i just could you share with us, maybe susan, you most since secretary sullivan is new, but what are you seeing in trends right now around the world as it relates to this issue and countries and citizens, if you will, taking up the challenge of ending modern slavery and trafficking in persons . So since the report first was produced, many more countries have passed laws banning the practice of Human Trafficking. Many of those are in compliance with the International Protocol known as the parameter standard, but were still encouraging governments to criminalize all forms of trafficking. Some areas that were sometimes overlooked in laws in countries were labor trafficking or trafficking of juveniles under the age of 18 without requiring force, fraud, or coercion. If someone is under 18, they cannot consent to engage in prostitution. They are sex trafficking victims. And we are pushing countries around the world to recognize that. So some laws have been passed. Some laws are still incomplete. Were also seeing an increase among Law Enforcement in the ability to identify victims of trac tranjing. I share with governments when i travel, once you get better at identifying victims, your numbers are going to go up before they go down. The number of trafficking cases a country will find will increase. Its not enough to say weve passed a law. Weve solved the problem, there are no more trafficking victims. That is not an accurate statement. Once you understand Law Enforcement understands the ability to recognize trafficking victims, then a number of prosecutions around the world should increase. Once Law Enforcement recognizes these victims, there is then a need to provide services to victims. To make them whole again, to reintegrate them into society. So a lot of the grants that my office manages and a lot of the efforts were encouraging on behalf of Foreign Governments now is to provide services and shelters for victims. One key component of that is to allow victims to remain in the country and work while the case is pending. If victims cannot stay there, a prosecutor loses their best evidence and those cases will not be successful. We are also still concerned globally with corruption and complicity of government officials. If government officials are involved in Human Trafficking, then Human Trafficking victims will not report that crime because they will fear retaliation or fear they will not be believed or listened to. So those are just a few of the Global Trends were still engaging on, both from the t. I. P. Office and with our embassies around the world. And how much of the focus on this is being generated in countries because of their own citizens awareness of this scourge, if you will, and how much of it is because of countries like ours but others also, that are leading efforts to end it . I think you need both those pressure points. And one of the three p areas we look at is protection and prevention. And prevention is really informing citizens what is going on in that country so that they can be aware of the dangers of Human Trafficking. One of the reasons, for example, the philippines was raised to tier one i believe last year was that they are informing their citizens who are going to work abroad what trafficking indicators are and what to do if you find yourself in a trafficking situation. So governments are informing their citizens, but everyday citizens are also becoming involved. I meet with ngos when i travel and you met with the t. I. P. Heroes at the rollout of our report. People are focused and galvanized around this issue and making a difference whether its through faithbased groups, through academia, a judge from morocco who was instrumental in that countrys law. Its really a whole of society effort to combat trafficking. What role is the end modern Slavery Initiative going to play in our continued efforts in this regard . So the program to end modern slavery that has been the 25 million provided to the state department will go to addressing prev lnalence areas, the report focuses on what governments are doing, but even governments taking substantial efforts or significant efforts may still face a large number of trafficking situations in their country. A large number of criminal actors and a large number of victims. And so we hope that the program to end modern slavery will look at that praev lns number and also share best practices about what is working internationally. Do a good job of keeping statistics, of what the size and scope of the problem is and what solutions can help to eradicate that. Senator cardin. Thank both witnesses. Secretary sullivan, in discussion that we had with the chairman, i just really want to underscore our appreciation for the amount of time secretary tillerson and yourself spent on this report. And how you insured us the decisions were made based upon the facts and only the facts. We appreciate that very much. That leadership coming from the secretary and from yourself is very important. I want to drill down on the reorganization within the state department and the impact it could have on the trafficking in persons information received and making the reports as well as the final reports itself. There has been reports that the consulate Affairs Office is being considered for termination within the state department, transferring functions to the department of homeland security, and that the bureau of population refugee and migration is being eliminated. And some of its functions would be transferred to the department of homeland security. Both of those actions, i think, would very much damage the department of states core function missions as well as compromising our ability to get the information we need to deal with the trafficking in persons report. Refugees, we know, are very vulnerable to trafficking. Can you just give me the committee a status as to those discussions and hopefully alleviate some of our concerns that this capacity within the state department is in jeopardy. Thank you, senator cardin. My apologies. Thank you, senator cardin. First, thank you for your statement about the secretarys leadership on the t. I. P. Report. My presence here is only because the secretary is in the persian gulf today, as we speak, to address an urgent matter. Otherwise, he himself would be here. Hes committed to insuring that the work of this office, the work of ambassador coppedges office, and the production of this t. I. P. Report, is not politicized, is not influenced by factors outside of the statutory standards that are applicable and applied to the facts as we find them. Were committed to maintaining the integrity of this office in this report, in whatever the outcome is in the redesign of the state department that the secretary has undertaken. Were studying, as we discussed this morning, we are now beginning the process of studying the redesign of the state department. There is a Steering Committee that has been convened, comprised primarily of senior and junior career officials, Foreign Service officers, Civil Service employees from a. I. D. And state, and working groups established under that steering group, Steering Committee, to stu Study Questions such as the function of Consular Affairs and prm. I can commit to you today on behalf of the secretary and the department that the outcome of that review has not been predetermined. We appreciate the importance and the secretary has said this, the role that kaunlsler affairs and prm play, not only in combatting trafficking in persons but in the mission of the department, consular officers abroad are the face of the United States for foreign citizens looking to come to this country, so i will commit to you that this office, susans office, will be protected in any review because of its importance in the integrity of the report itself that we produced every year will also be protected. Thank you. I appreciate that. I strongly urge that these functions remain within the state department. Ms. Coppedge, let me go into, as i said earlier, im very complimentary of the manner in which these judgments were made on tier ratings, but i need to concentrate on malaysia because i have a hard time understanding the upgrade for malaysia. A little bit of history here. In 2015, malaysia was taken from tier three to tier two watch. I dont think there was a member of this committee after the hearings that was convinced that that was made on the merits. That it clearly looked like it was a political decision made so that it could be eligible for the tpp negotiations. Thats what it there was virtually no justification for the upgrade. Now, in 2017, youre upgrading malaysia, the country that got a pass in 2015, to tier two, a tier two watch. We know that the population is still very vulnerable in malaysia. We know that theres been no explanations as to the tragedies that occurred, the discovery of the mass graves. We know that Police Officers were released that were suspected. We know the number of victims that have been identified pale in comparison to the grand numbers. We know theres been increased numbers of criminal prosecutional activities, but there doesnt seem to be a fundamental shift. If this committees observations were correct that they were upgraded when they shouldnt have been upgraded to a tier two watch, why were they rewarded again . Thank you, senator cardin. I will engage in a little bit of history as well. I believe after that 2015 hearing that the deputy secretary came over and briefed members in a closeddoor session. And i know that then secretary kerry in 2016 said that there were no Political Considerations that went into the 2016 report. Exactly right, but no one believed him. And then today, you have had the affirmation from deputy secretary sullivan and secretary tillerson that no Political Considerations went into the report this year. You cited all of the areas from the report that the u. S. Government says malaysia still needs to work on. Tier two, as a ranking, means you are not meeting the minimum standards but that you are making significant efforts as a country. All of those factors you cited are areas we still encourage the malaysian government to work on. However, there are numbers that show that they did make significant efforts this year. They quadrupled the number of trafficking investigations from 158 to 581. And the number of convictions increased from 7 to 35. That number is still low, as you noted, given the scope of the problem, but that is a significant increase from 7 and one this years report recognized with the tier two ranking. They also strengthened Law Enforcement efforts around trafficking. And we talk about this with Foreign Governments because its so important to look at the factors and indicators of trafficking. Sometimes, when a country is getting up to speed on its trafficking law and educating Law Enforcement, they need to find other ways to crack down on the crime. And what malaysia did was enforce a law prohibiting passport retention. Migrant workers to malaysia were having their passports held. Thats a clear indicator that there could be trafficking. A clear indicator that someone may not be free to move. And one of the top recommendations of the report in the years past is to look at this law. They convicted 17 employers for unauthorized retention of passports, compared to zero the previous year. They also identified a Record Number of victims, more than 1,100. Again, theyre starting to do these things and make these significant efforts. Do they still have progress that needs to be made . Yes. Will we still be watching very closely what happens to their prosecution and conviction numbers . Yes. And we will certainly continue to emphasize that victims need to be allowed to move freely and work in that country while prosecutions are pending. Well, i thank you for that explanation. I dont question the manner in which the decision was made. I question the final judgment. And i can assure you that i know that youll be moving on, but were going to be watching this country very, very closely. And see whether these trends are real and whether theyre having an impact on the ground on the tragic trafficking that takes place in that country. Thank you. Well, i want to thank the ambassador and secretary for your hard work on this important issue of trafficking. Mr. Sullivan, on may 9th, in your nomination hearing, you were kind enough to indulge a number of different requests that i made of you. And you immediately followed up, proactively, with a letter. Thank you for your responsiveness and thoughtfulness in the letter. You have taken action steps, and im grateful for all of that. The first issue i raised with you in that may 9th hearing pertained to the general accountability office. I think this is an underutilized institution of our federal government. They really provide some critical feedback, and programmatic issues, organizational issues and so forth. And i commend, for example, the department of state for taking their recommendation to improve the clarity and usefulness of this years t. I. P. Report. So thats an example of the sort of thing that, where they often add value. I note that as of this morning, gaos website reports there are 57 publications from gao with a total of 125 open recommendations for the department of state, including 28 priority recommendations that havent been implemented or fully implemented. Now, some of these open recommendations relate to issues like Human Trafficking or Diplomatic Security or security assistance. Really consequential issues. And i want to make sure im very fair and clear here. I note that 125 open recommendations is down from the 132 in may. But i would hope that we might continue to make rapid progress towards addressing some of these. I would also note that the number of priority recommendations has increased since we last visited, from 22 to 28. So can you just provide me, mr. Secretary, with an update on your efforts to insure state fully and appropriately responds to gaos recommendations . Yes, thank you, senator young. The statistics you cite are important. And troubling. The fact that there are as many open items as there are, and thats reflected in recent statistics from the gao from june. We had a letter on june 5th from the comptroller general, with 28 priority recommendations and that the state Department Needs to address. And you have mentioned the recommendation with respect to the t. I. P. Report, which is one we have implemented. I committed to you what my confirmation hearing, and i recommit today and i apologize i havent been as quick in getting back to you on the gao open recommendations as i should have been, but they are a priority for me. Both the gao and our Inspector General recommendations, which we also have to respond to and implement. I will say that it is a governmentwide issue. I think the statistics that the gao provided show that we probably have an above average Response Rate compared to the rest of the federal government. But thats still not good enough. No, thank you for your good work, for your recommitment to get this done. Im not going to benchmark you against the general federal government. Thats pretty low standard from my view. But thank you very much. Some positive news, the second issue i raised in my nomination hearing you might recall related to problems Many Americans are experiencing. You mouthed it, verbalized it, adoption. Bringing home legally adopted children from ethiopia. We had really good news in my state, working with your folks over at the state department, the ethiopian ambassador, who deserves a shoutout. 122 members sent a letter that i helped lead to the ethiopian prime minister. So a lot of actors involved here. But we were able to, in our office, welcome home a new hoosier. Janine, to indiana last month. The son of john and rachel of fishers, indiana, thank you to you and your professionals. Last thing i want to do is commend you for your leadership, your professionalism, not Just Consulting with republicans and democrats, people who have held your job and other jobs, to help inform you better about your coming work. But you have emphasized the importance of the professionals at state. At usaid. We want them to feel respected. We want their work we want them to understand that their work is important. I have always operated under the popular assumption that theres kind of three distinct disciplines in the National Security forum. We have diplomacy, we have development, we have defense. Right . And development has its own unique skills, culture, and approaches. Would you agree with that assessment . Certainly, senator. Okay. I also presume that whatever reforms we undertake at state and usaid will involve maintaining a skilled and experienced Development Work force, professional staff who understand the art and science of development. Is that a correct assumption . Yes, it is. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Senator menendez. Thank you, mr. Chairman, for holding the hearing and for your continuing leadership in the question of Human Trafficking. I truly appreciate it. Thank you both for your service. Ambassador coppedge, let me ask you a simple yes or no. Would you agree that malaysia has a very significant number of trafficking victims . Yes. And also, i gueyes or no, dou believe the number of trafficking victims in malaysia is significantly increasing . That is hard to determine. Isnt it numerically possible to determine . I believe that Human Trafficking is a hidden crime. And its very hard to get accurate data as to whether the problem is increasing or not or whether we are just Getting Better government officials are Getting Better at detecting it. Ngos are Getting Better at assisting victims and reporting that. Well, the tvpa defines countries that should be included on the tier two watch list as countries that otherwise meet the tier two definition but were one, the absolute number of victims is very significant or significantly increasing. Theres a failure to provide evidence of efforts to decrease trafficking or based on commitments by the country to take future action. This years report seems to have ignored the first group. Countries where the absolute number of victims is very significant or significantly increasing. And instead, made the distinction between tier two and a tier two watch list solely on the second and third categories. So given that you agree that malaysia has a very significant number of trafficking victims, why did the state department ignore that part of the legal requirement when determining malaysias tier ranking . Senator, i can assure you we did not ignore that part of the minimum standards in the tier requirements. Theres four minimum standards and the three factors you enumerated in determining the rank of a country between tier two, tier two watch list and tier three were all considered with respect to malaysia. But theres no question that they have a very significant number. So it seems to me that my understanding is that you had to meet all of these elements. Are they weighted . There are many factors that go into it. Factors can point in Different Directions. What we do at the state department is sit down and discuss those facts, fill in any gaps in information that we have, consult with ngos and citizens who were invited to share information. I know individuals on the hill share information that they receive as well. And all of these different factors are considered. Again, some may point in Different Directions. They are weighed and a final result is made. Well, factors that point in Different Directions can be an excuse. Let me ask you this. You testified last year before the committee, and i quote, malaysia stayed on the tier two watch list because it has a serious Human Trafficking problem, and it did not makeover all increasing efforts. So to me, that statement reflects the correct interpretation of the law and that both the scale of the problem and the efforts of government must be considered when determining tier two watch list status. It seems to me that you abandoned that interpretation for this years report. I am wondering, you know, the notion that increased efforts subjectively defined are enough to remove a country from the watch list seems to be a newly created standard that was not noted in the report in past years. Senator, we dont rely on just one standard. And i can say that we did not abandon the minimum standards in making the evaluation. We looked at, and you missed a bit of my conversation with senator cardin, the increases in the number of trafficking investigations. They quadruples from 158 to 581. The number of trafficking convictions increased from 7 to 35. That number is still woefully low given the scope of the problem, but they were significant efforts given the efforts in the previous year. We will continue to look at the numbers of prosecutions, investigations, and convictions. Is criminalization the forced labor requirement to meet the minimum standards of the law . Its certainly something that is looked at to see whether the law is comprehensive not a minimum standard of the law . You interpret it as just looking at it . No, senator, if you look at that and a country does not criminalize all forms of forced labor, i submit to you they would never be a tier one country. Cuba was granted a waiver from an otherwise automatic downgrade to tea three because of some written plan, if implemented, but the law has not changed. They do not criminalize forced labor. Thats something we continue to raise with the government of cuba and something that is addressed in the written plan. How do they deserve a waiver . The waiver looks at the written plan do we have access to the written plan . The written plan is submitted by governments to the state department and we believe it would be chilling to submit that plan. Chilling to share a plan that is the basis of a statutorially mandated report, and for which we could not make a judgment without knowing whether that plan is significant enough to give a country like cuba for that fact, any other country similarly situated a waiver. Thats ridiculous. That is beyond, beyond the whole notion that in order not to free the deliberative process internally within the state department as it relates to these rankings that in fact we shouldnt have access to a report that a government gets a waiver on. Mr. Chairman, this is why reform of the existing legislation is so important. If i may, one last question. Ambassador sullivan secretary sullivan, reuters report on june 23rd claims that secretary tillerson overruled his staff assessments on the use of child soldiers in myanmar and removed them from the child soldiers prevention act and he added afghanistan to that list. I would ask the reuters article be entered into the record, mr. Chairman. Is that account accurate . Well, senator, the secretary took the facts that were presented to him through the t. I. P. Report process, through the process that generated the recommendations to him, applied the Legal Standard and his judgment to the facts that were presented and reached his determination with respect to those three cases. So, and im happy to discuss each of those three, burma, afghanistan, and iraq. But it was his judgment his judgment of applying the Legal Standards to the facts that led to the i would be very interested in understanding why he rejected the advice of state department experts. Mr. Chairman, may i go ahead. Two points on that. We are the secretary for each of these determinations, makes his own independent judgment. I would be happy to brief you on this issue, as well as on the issue you raised previously with ambassador coppedge on cuba. With respect to our determinations with respect to cuba, the facts there as well Going Forward on our engagement with cuba, both Law Enforcement, migration issues, and with respect to trafficking in persons. And provide you with information, if not the plan that susan described, sufficient information so that you understand what our position is with respect to cuba. I wont belabor it because the chairman has been very gracious. Ill simply say, first of all, i would like an answer for the record in writing and i would be happy to take your briefing as well. Let me just say this answer that we cant even see a report that has nothing to do with the deliberations to determine whether a country should get a waiver or not, that is beyond the scope, from my perspective, beyond the scope and not acceptable. Thank you, mr. Friday on cspan 3 a discussion about the annual Medicare Trustees report with remarks. Live coverage starts at 9 15 eastern time. And at noon eastern a look at the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act also known as ficea. The congressional internet Caucus Committee is considering amending the law to restrict surveillance of Online Communications by u. S. Intelligence agencies. Watch it live here on cspan 3 at cspan. Org and listen live with the cspan radio app. Cspans washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. And coming up friday morning Kaiser Health news correspondent will join us for the morning to talk about whats included in the leadest Senate Republican health care bill. Be sure to watch live at 7 eastern friday morning. Join the discussion. Sunday on q and a. And the country was in absolute monarchy, speaking about the distribution of welt, corruption. Saudi arabian women rights activist talks about her time in prison after challenging the saudi governments ban on women drivers in her book daring to drive. You never see a woman driving on the street. We wanted to change this by this movement. And the movement is going on, never stopped. Were still camp paining for the right to drive. For us the right to drive is more act of civil disobedience, because women is not supposed to drive. We show that we are able, we are capable of driving our own life and being in the driver seat of our destiny by doing this act of civil disobedience. Sunday night at 8 00 eastern. Australias parliament recently completed a two week session that included debates about terrorism. Heres a summery of the session from sky news australia. Its 30 minutes. Hello, im david spews. We are sadly heavily focused here on terrorism. Both the threat posed on our own borders but