Will come to order. This morning, we are continue our oversight efforts with regard to the 2017 trafficking in persons report. Thank snard caenator cardinand of the committee this committee has conducted extensive oversight on this issue instituted annual briefings for members at state department. Prior to the release of the annual trafficking in persons report. We ask every nominee before this committee to commit to help fight against modern slavery. This oversight has been noted at the state department and in our embassys. We appreciate the deputy secretary of state volunteered to lead the administrations testimony today. The secretary spent about 45 minutes with the senator and i before this meeting and we thank him very much for his openness and the way that hes serving and we look forward to having an outstanding relationship were him and thank you for being here today. I know the secretary of state wanted to be here. He had an unplanned trip to the middle east. We thank you for sitting in on his stead but thank you for the elevation in this of this issue at the state department and, again, you being here. The deputys attendance demonstrates the state departments interest in the strab stability of this report after the ambassador finishes her time we welcome ambassador susan copich who agreed to remain in her post and ensure continuity with the 2017 report. We appreciate her leadership and service. I have to say that i think youve been outstanding. I think there are people around the world that have benefited greatly from your service, certainly we have. And i cannot thank you enough for your leadership and dedication to this issue and i hope our paths cross many, many times in the future. We also appreciate the secretary of state tillerson and ivanka trump personally and led the rollout of the 2017 report, a great event and i was glad to be there. I would begin commending the ambassador at the state department the focus of this years report on the responsibility of government to criminalize Human Trafficking and hold offenders accountable. This is large ly forprofit. No greater than to make it clear perpetrators and those who collaborate with them will pay a heavy price for these crimes. This years report contains specific elements our country and other countries can use to prosecute the crime of modern slavery. I hope in compiling this years report you will continue to highlight examples of progress and prosecutions and scrutinize where corruption and lack of progress are failing victims of modern slavery. The 2015 report and how it was perceived did real damage to this issue. And were still recovering from that. We all need to continue to reinforce trust in the process and developing the rankings. We are careful not to politicize the oversight process and that remains important. I do believe that beginning last year and again this year the state department has taken the integrity of the report seriously and we thank you very much for that. We were talking and may be questions about some of the outcomes but i think one of the things that absolutely everyone feels is there was no politicization. There may have been differences in judgment but we appreciate the integrity with which this was put together. Finally, i thank secretary tillerson for announcing the state department is proceeding with the 1. 5 billion initiative that senator menendez and i first presented to this committee in 2015. This is a critical step in the effort to end modern slavery globally. Prime minister may, victims will only find freedom if we cut vate a radically new global and coordinated approach to defeat this vile crime. Thank you both for being here and i turn to my friend. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Before i comment on todays hearing on the trafficking in persons report, let me just share with our colleagues that the chairman and i have been very focused on trying to get the russia sanction bill passed in the United States house of representatives. And i want to thank the chairman. We expressed as much flexibility as we possibly can to our colleagues in the house to deal with their particular procedural issue. We dont think thats a problem and we want to make sure that this bill is passed as quickly as possible in the house. And in the form that did pass the United States senate. I want to thank the chairman for his cooperation. We have been working without any difference here in trying to get this bill passed in the house. Im reminded secretary sullivan in that bill is the requirement for review before any sanction relief is given and particularly mention that because of press reports concerning the compounds in new york and maryland and we consider that a really major point to congress if action was taken on that without working with the members of congress. Let me thank you very much, mr. Chairman for this hearing. This hearing as we will review the most recent trafficking in persons report as you pointed out one of the great moral challenges of our time. It is modernday slavery. Just last week, i was not present but the another hat i wear Ranking Member of the helsinki commission. We had our annual meeting in belarus and our delegation was very much actively engaged on this issue of trafficking. The u. S. Leadership on this globally has made a huge difference. It was the leadership of the United States congress and United States government that has raised this issue to the International Community making it clear we will not tolerate trafficking in persons. And that we will take all necessary steps to end this tragedy. It distorts labor markets, destroys people, it e roads communities and undermines communities fueled by corruption, greed, violence. We will continue in our trafficking in persons report to me is the Gold Standard for what is used to have all countries do better. I mentioned previously when foreign guests come into my office, whether heads of states or foreign ministers, i have the report in my office and will review that countrys need for additional progress in order to deal with this. So, it was with great anticipation that we had this hearing and look forward to the 2017 report. Thank you for your extraordinary leadership on this issue. We know that you will be doing other things and i want to first and foremost acknowledge that the 2017 report represents the professional dedication that we expect to see in the trafficking of persons report. And im very pleased with the manner in which this report was handled and the way that the decisions were made. It doesnt mean that i agree with all the decisions that were made. I think in regards to china, i applaud you. I think that was absolutely the right decision and i know that it came with some political diplomatic challenges and it was the right thing to do and i applaud you on it. Im going to talk a little bit about malaysia because i am concerned about what happened in malaysia. It was upgraded to tier 2. That was one of the major countries that we were concerned about the manner in which it was handled in 2015 because of the apparent connection between the decision made in the report and the t. P. P. Negotiations taking place. Senator menendez was one of the principal leaders and had legislation on this, et cetera. It seemed a very political decision made in 2015. Malaysia is home to more than 2 million documented migrant laborers and millions more laborers many of whom to continue the bondage of forced labor yet only identified only 1500 trafficking victims. Thats all they could identify. They have yet to prosecute any of the officials in their involvement of the smuggling ring found on the border in 2015. Incredible tragedy, virtually no progress made resolving that issue. During that time they released 12 Police Officers suspected of trafficking raising questions as to the countrys commitments. I know the numbers are higher on the number of cases brought but as far as concrete results, i havent seen it and ill be interested as to why the upgrade was made. Im also happy that secretary [ inaudible ] is here because i am concerned as to how the reorganization will affect our ability to deal with trafficking issues. I know there is discussions being made in regards to the elimination of the bureau of population refugee and migration and some of those functions handled by the department of Homeland Security and i know there is consideration it being transferred to the department. I think in both cases would compromise not only the mission of the department of state i think critically important but how we deal with trafficking moving forward. I look forward to the secretarys testimony and to our discussion today. Thank you very much. With that, our first witness deputy secretary of state john sullivan. We welcome you here. Our second witness, ambassador at large to monitor and combat Human Trafficking. Were grateful both of you are here and doing the jobs that you are doing and have done and if you can take about five minutes to summarize we would appreciate it and look forward to questions after that and please just proceed in the order introduced. Thank you. Good morning. Thank you, mr. Chairman, senator cardin, members of the committee. Im honored to appear before you again today to discuss the important topic of the 2017 trafficking in persons report which the state Department Released last month. Im grateful for the opportunity to testify about the report. The state department is also grateful for the committees leadership and input on this issue and human rights and democracy broadly. Individual liberty and freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly and the right to petition the government the core of who we are as americans. Secretary tiller son and i share a personal commit mefment in th regard and are proud through hearings like this one and strong legislation backed by this committee, you have been consistent and tireless fighting the insidious crime of Human Trafficking. I look forward to our continued collaboration on this and broader efforts to defend the worlds most vulnerable. I would also like to particularly thank ambassador at large susan copich who leads the state Departments Office to monitor and combat trafficking in persons, also known as the t. I. P. Office. She and her team have done a remarkable job not only producing the detailed report released but also to effort to encourage foreign officials, ngo leaders and others around the world to join this fight. At the rollout in june the secretary read a sobering line from the preamble from the trafficking victims protection act of 2000. Quote, as the 21st century be n begins 17 years later, still more than an estimated 20 million victims of Human Trafficking but the secretary also encouraged us to join in a shared hope that the 21st century will be the last century of Human Trafficking. The t. I. P. Report is an instrument that will help us make that hope become a reality. Its not only a symbol of u. S. Global leadership combatting Human Trafficking but a diagnostic tool to assess government efforts to cross the three ts, prosecuting traffickers, protecting and empowering victims and preventing future trafficking crimes. Since the enactment of it in 2000 and the t. I. P. Report first publication in 2001, it has prompted governments to enact comprehensive legislation, prosecute human traffickers, establish National Action plans, implement antitrafficking policies and programs that protect victims and conduct prevention campaigns. The focus of this years report is on governments responsibility to criminalize Human Trafficking. In all its forms and to prosecute offenders. It also emphasizes the responsibility of government to enforce antitrafficking laws, prevent the use of child soldiers and prosecute corrupt officials turning a blind eye. To combat Human Trafficking effectively governments must root out complicity by Public Officials. The report makes clear many countries take this issue seriously. I would emphasize some of the positive efforts countries have made this year discussed in the report. As secretary tillerson noted afghanistan serves as an example of progress. Last summer the president ordered an investigation into the institutionalized sexual abuse of children by security forces. And promised punishment for perpetrators. In january of this year, the Afghan Government enact ad new law to criminalize a practice that exploits boys for social and sexual entertainment. We will continue to work with the Afghan Government toward greater progress this year as they build on these efforts to investigate, prosecute and convict traffickers, including complicit government officials. Ukraine is another example, country on the watch list for four years butup graded to tier 2 status this year leading to the arrest and conviction of Police Officers, Public Officials and others complicit or willfullyly negjec of girls and boys under their care. Unfortunately, some countries have backpedaled. This years report reveals china has not taken serious steps to end its own complicity in trafficking, tens of thousands of north korean citizens Work Overseas at forced laborers primarily in china and russia. The north korean regime profits financially making hundreds of millions a year on the backs of their exploited citizens working abroad. Responsible nations cannot allow. This because of chinas lack of significant efforts to address and limit trafficking they were do downgraded to tier 3. It informs foreign programming to develop strategies and to prioritize countries according to their need for assistance and to make improvements. We use the analysis and recommendations to guide diplomacy on Human Trafficking so ambassadors and officials at every level can engage with foreign counterparts in this fight. I commit to you today i engage with goran as i engage with Foreign Government officials i will, like many of you, raise antitrafficking are concerns as well as broader human rights instances. All countries, including our own, the United States, have more to do to fight to end modern slavery. Im proud of the progress reflected in the 2017t. I. P. Report but it there is much more work to do to make the 21st century the last for Human Trafficking. We are eager to work with on gres to that end and i look forward to your questions. Thank you. Thank you so much. Ambassador . Now you can hear me. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator cardin and members of the committee. It is a real privilege to be here before you today on an issue to which we are all dedicated. Im honored to join deputy secretary sullivan and happy to answer questions on this years report. I have to say im humbled by the kind words spoken about me this morning. The effort to produce this report is state departmentwide effort. There are fabulous staff in the t. I. P. Office, our Embassy Personnel around the world none of this hard work could be done without them and i am the beneficiary of that hard work and dedication by the state department employees. Hearings like this are important to highlight the u. S. Governments commitment to combat trafficking. The t. I. P. Report used not only by governments by ngos and Civil Society members. Some here today and many will be watching. This conversation is a valuable opportunity to discuss the reports analysis and how it can be used as an effective tool to help improve government responses around the world. I look forward to discussing the record with you. Well, thank you. I again thank you both for your testimony. I know there will be numbers of written questions and some here today about some of the actual results. Id like to talk to you a little bit about just the bigger picture. I think for those people here in the audience, most of whom are interested [ inaudible ] on this issue, but they may be surprised at some of the things that were sited in johns opening comments about what is happening around the world. Could you share with us, maybe susan, and secretary sullivan, but what are you seeing in trends right now around the world as it relates to this issue in countries, citizens, if you will, taking up the challenge of ending modern slavery and trafficking in persons . Since the report first was produced, many more countries have passed laws banning the practice of Human Trafficking, many in compliance with International Protocol but still encouraging governments to criminalize all forms of trafficking. Some areas that were sometimes overlooked in countries where they were trafficking or trafficking of juveniles under the age of 18 without requiring force, prod or coercion. If someone is under 18, they cannot consent to engage in prostitution. They are sex trafficking victims and we are pushing countries around the world to recognize that. So, some in the past, some are still incomplete. We are also seeing an increase among Law Enforcement and the ability to identify victims of trafficking. And i share with governments when i travel that once you get better at identifying victims, your numbers are going to go up before they go down. The number of trafficking cases a country will find will increase, it is not enough to say weve passed a law, we solved the problem there, are no more trafficking victims that. Is not an accurate statement r. Once Law Enforcement understands the ability to recognize victims, the prosecutions around the world should increase. Once Law Enforcement recognizes the victims there is a need to provide services to victims to make them whole again, to reintegrate them into society. A lot of the grants my office manages and a lot of the efforts we are encouraging on behalf of Foreign Governments now is to provide services and shelters for victims. One key component is to allow victims to remain in the country and work while the case is pending. Victims cannot stay there, a prosecutor loses their best evidence and those cases will not be successful. We are also still concerned globally with corruption and complicity of government officials. If government officials are involved in Human Trafficking, then Human Trafficking victims will not report that crime fearing retaliation, or fear they will not be believed or listened to. Those are just a few of the Global Trends we are still engaging on both from tip t. I. P. Office and embassies around the world. How much focus being generated in countries because of their own citizens awareness of this scourge, if you will, and how much it is because of countries like ours that others, also, that are leading efforts to end it . I think you need both, both pressure points. One of the areas we look at is protection and prevention. Prevention is really informing citizens what is going on in that country so they can be aware of the dangers of Human Trafficking. One of the reasons, for example, the philippines was raised are to tier 1 i believe last year was that they are informing their citizens who were going to work abroad what trafficking indicators are and what to do if you find yourself in a trafficking situation. So, governments are informing mayor citizens but everyday citizens are ralso becoming involved. I meet with ngos when i travel people around the world are really focused and galvanized around this issue making a difference whether through faithbased groups, academia, we had a judge here from morocco instrumental in that countrys laws. Really, a whole of society effort to combat trafficking. What role is in modern Slavery Initiative going to play in our continued effort in this regard . So, the program to end modern slavery that has been the 25 million provided to the state department will go to addressing prevalent areas. Even governments taking substantial efforts or significant efforts may still face a large number of trafficking situations in their country. A large number of criminal actors and a large number of victims and so we hope the programs to end modern slavery will look at that prevalence number and also share best practices about what is working enter nea internationally. Thank both witnesses. Secretary sullivan in the discussion we had with the chairman, i just really want to underscore our appreciation for the amount of time secretary tillerson and yourself spent on this report. And how you assured us that the decisions were made based upon the facts and only the facts and we appreciate that very much and that leadership coming from the secretary and yourself is very important. I want to drill down on the reorganization within the state department and the impact it could have on the trafficking in persons information received making the report, as well as the final report itself. There has been reports that the Consular Office is considered for termination within the state department and transfer functions to the department of Homeland Security and that the bureau of population refugee and migration is being eliminated and some of its functions would be transferred to the department of Homeland Security. Both of those actions, i think, would very much damage the department of states core function missions, as well as compromising our ability to get the information we need to deal with the trafficking in persons report, refugees we know are very vulnerable to trafficking. Can you just give me, the Committee Status as to those discussions and hopefully alleviate some of our concerns that this capacity within the state departments in jeopardy. My apology. Thank you, senator cardin. First, thank you for your statement about the secretarys leadership on the t. I. P. Report. My presence here is only because the secretary is in the persian gulf today, as we speak, to address an urgent matter otherwise he had, himself, would be here. Hes committed to ensuring that the work of this office, the work of ambassador copichs office and the production of this t. I. P. Report is not politicized, is not influenced by factors outside of the statutory standards that are applicable and applied to the facts, as we find them. Were committed to maintaining the integrity of this office in this report and whatever the outcome is in the redesign of the state department that the secretary has undertaken, we are studying, as we discussed this morning, we are now beginning the process of studying the redesign of the state department. There is a Steering Committee that has been convened comprised primarily of senior and junior career officials, Foreign Service officers, Civil Service employees, from aid and state and working groups established under that Steering GroupSteering Committee to Study Questions such as the function of Consular Affairs and p. R. M. I can commit to you today on behalf of the secretary and department that the outcome of that review has not been predetermined. We appreciate the importance and the secretary said this, the role that Consular Affairs and p. R. M. Play not only in combatting trafficking in persons but in the mission of the department Consular Officers abroad theyre the face of the United States for foreign citizens looking to come to this country. So, i will commit to you that this officer, susans sooffice will be protected in any review because of the importance and the integrity of the report we produce every year will also be protected. Thank you. I appreciate that. I strongly urge that these functions remain within the state department. Really go into, as i said earlier on, very complimentary manner in which these were made. To malaysia, i have a hard time understanding the upgrade to malaysia. History here, in 2015 they were taken from tier 3 to tier 2 watch. I dont think a member after the hearing was convinced that was made on the merits that it clearly looked like it was a political decision made so that it could be eligible for t. P. P. Negotiations. Thats what virtually no justification for the upgrade. Now, in 2017, youre upgrading ma lalaysia malaysia, the country that got a pass in 2015 to tier 2 to tier 2 watch. We know that the population is still very vulnerable in malaysia. We know there has been no explanations as to the tragedies that occurred in discovering the mass graves and know the Police Officers were released that were suspected. We know the number of victims that have been identified pale in comparison to the grand numbers. We know theres been increased numbers of criminal prosecutional activities but doesnt seem a fundamental shift and it is this committees observations were correct they were upgraded when they shouldnt have been upgraded to a tier 2 watch, why were they rewarded again . Thank you, senator cardin. I will engage in a bit of history, as well. I believe after that 2015 hearing that deputy secretary came over and briefed members in a closeddoor session and i know that then secretary kerry in 2016 said there were no Political Considerations that went into the 2016 report exactly right but no one believes him. Today youve had the affirmation from deputy secretary sullivan and secretary tillerson no Political Considerations went into the report this year. You cited all of the areas from the report that the u. S. Government says malaysia still needs to work on the tier 2 as a ranking means you are not meeting the minimum standards but are making significant efforts as a country. All of those factors you cited are areas we encourage that government to work on. However, numbers show they made significant efforts this year, quadrupled the number of trafficking investigations from 157 to 581. And the number of convictions increased from 7 to 35. Now, that number is so low as you noted given the scope of the problem but that is a significant increase from 7 and one this years report recognized with the tier 2 ranking. I also see the Law Enforcement efforts around trafficking. We talk about this because it is so important to look at the sfakt factors and indicators of trafficking. Sometimes when a country is getting up to speed on this law and educating enforcement they need to find other ways to crack down on the crime. What malaysia did enforce a law prohibiting passport retention. They were having their passports held, a clear indicator there could be trafficking, a clear indicator someone may not be free to move. One of the top recommendation also of the report in the past to look at this law. They convict the 17 employers for unauthorized retention of pastports compared to 0 the year before and identified a Record Number of victims more than 1,100, again starting to do these things and make significant efforts. Do they still have progress that needs to be made . Yes. Will we still be watching closely what happens to their prosecution and conviction numbers . Yes. We will certainly continue to emphasize victims need to be allowed to move freely and work in that country while prosecutions are pending. I thank you for that explanation. I dont question the manner in which the decision was made. I question the final judgment and i can assure you that i know youll be moving on but were going to be watching this country very, very closely. And see whether these trends are real and whether theyre having an impact on the ground on the tragic trafficking that takes place in that country. Thank you. Senator . Well, i want to thank the ambassador and secretary for your hard work on this important issue of trafficking. Mr. Sullivan, on may 9th your nomination hearing you were kind enough to indulge a number of different requests that i made of you and you immediately followed up proactively with a letter. I thank you for your responsiveness and thoughtfulness in your letter youve taken action and steps and im grateful for all of that. The first issue i raised in that may 9th hearing pertains to the general accountability office, i think an under utilized institution of our federal government. They really provide critical feedback and organizational issues and so forth. I commend, for example, the department of state for taking their recommendation to improve the clarity and usefulness of this years t. I. P. Report. Thats an example of the sort of thing where they often add value. I note that as of this morning, g. A. O. s website reports there are 57 publications from g. A. O. With a total of 125 open recommendations for the department of state including 28 priority recommendations that havent been implemented or fully implemented. Now some of these open recommendations relate to issues like Human Trafficking or Diplomatic Security or security assistance, really consequential issues. And i want to make sure im very fair and clear here. I note that 125 open recommendations is down from the 132 in may. But, i would hope that we might continue to make rapid progress towards addressing some of these. Id also note the number of priority recommendations has increased since we last visited from 22 to 28. So, can you just provide me, mr. Secretary, with an update on your efforts to ensure state fully and appropriately responds to g. A. O. s recommendation . Yes. Thank you, senator young. The statistics you site are important and troubling. The fact that theres many open items as there are, thats reflected in recent statistics from the gao from june. I think we had a letter on june 5th from the comptroller general with 28 priority recommendations. And to that the state Department Needs to address and you mentioned the recommendation with respect to the t. I. P. Report, one which we have implemented. I committed to you at my confirmation hearing and recommit today and apologize i havent been as quick in getting back to you on the g. A. O. Open recommendations as i should have been but they are a priority to me both g. A. O. An Inspector General recommendations which we also have to respond to and implement. I will say that it is a governmentwide issue. I think the same statistics that the g. A. O. Provided shows that we probably have a aboveaverage Response Rate compared to the rest of 9 fthe federal governme. Thats still not good enough. Yeah. Thank you for your work and recommitment to get this done. Im not going to benchmark you against the federal government, a low standard in my view but thank you very much. Some positive news the second issue i raised in the nomination hearing related to many problems Many Americans are experiencing, you mouthed it, you expressed it, adoption bringing home le l legally apresident dod children from ethiopia. We had really good news in my state working with your folks, the state department, the ethiopian ambassador who deserves a shout out, 122 members sent a letter i helped lead to the ethiopian prime minister. A lot of actors involved here but we were able to, in our office, welcome home a new hoosier, janine to indiana last month. The son of john and rachel oren of fishers indiana thank you to you and your professionals. Last i want to commend you for your leadership, professionalism. Not Just Consulting with republicans and democrats, people who have held your job and other jobs to help inform you better about your coming work but, um, youve emphasized the importance of the professionals at state, at usaid. We want them to feel respected. We want their work to we want them to understand that their work is important. Ive always operated under the popular assumption there are kind of three distinct disciplines in the National Security forum. We have diplomacy, we have development, we have defense, right . And development has its own unique skills, culture and approaches. Would you agree with that assessment . Certainly, senator. Okay. I also presume that whatever reforms we undertake, as state and usaid will involve maintaining a skilled and experienced developments workforce professional staff who understands the art and science of development. Is that a correct assumption . Yes, it is. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Senator menendez . Thank you, mr. Chairman, for holding the hearing and for your continuing leadership in the question of Human Trafficking. I truly appreciate it. Thank you both for your service. Ambassador copich, simple yes or no, would you agree that malaysia has a very significant number of trafficking victims . Yes. And, also, i guess do you believe the number of trafficking victims in malaysia is significantly increasing . That is hard to determine. Isnt it numerically possible to determine. I believe that Human Trafficking is a hidden crime thats very hard to get accurate data as to whether the problem is increasing or not or whether we are just Getting Better, government officials are just Getting Better at detecting it. Ngos Getting Better at assisting victims and reporting that. The t. P. P. A. Defined countries included on the tier 2 watchlist on countries that otherwise meet the tier 2 definition, one, the absolute number of victims is very significant or significantly increasing. Theres a failure to provide evidence of increasing efforts to combat trafficking and or three the determination a country is making significant efforts based on commitment by the country to take future action. This years report seems to have ignored that first group, countries where the absolute number of victims is very significant or significantly increasing and, instead, made the distinction between tier 2 and tier 2 watchlist solely on the second and third categories. So, given that you agree that malaysia has a very significant number of trafficking victims, why did the state department ignore that part of the legal requirement when determining malaysias tier ranking . Senator, i can assure you we did not ignore that part of the minimum standards in the requirements. Those factors are four minimum standards, and the three factors you enumerated determining the rank of a country between tier 2, tier 2 watchlist and tier 3 were all considered with respect to malaysia. But theres no question that they have a very significant number. So, it seems to me that my understanding is that you had to meet all of these elements. Are they weighted . They are many factors that go into it and factors can point in Different Directions. What we do at the state department, sit down and discuss those facts, fill in any gaps in information we have. Consult with ngos and citizens invited to share information. I know individuals on the hill share information they receive, as well. All of these different factors are considered. Again some may point difference directions, they are made well factors that point Different Directions can be an excuse. Let me ask you this, you 2e testified before this committee to me, the statement reflects the correct interpretation of the law, both the scale of the problem and the efforts of government must be considered when determining tier 2 watchlist status. It seems to me that you abandoned that interpretation for this years report. Im wondering what you know, the notion that increased efforts, you know, subjectively defined are enough to remove a country from a watchlist seems a newly created standard not noted in the report in past years. Senator, we dont rely on just one standard and i can say we did not abandon the minimum standards making the evaluation. We looked and you missed a bit of my conversation with senator cardin, the increases in the number of trafficking investigation, they quad rupppled from 158 to 581. The number of trafficking convictions increased from 7 to 35. That number is still woefully low given the scope of the problem but they were significant efforts given the efforts in the previous year. We will continue to look at the numbers of prosecutions, investigations and convictions. This criminal sdaigs of forced labor required to meet the minimum standards of the law . Certainly looked at in considering not a minimum standard of the law, you interpret it at looking at it . No, sir. I submit to you they would never be a tier 1 country. Cuba was granted a waiver from an otherwise automatic downgrade to tier 3 because the government of cuba devoted resources to some written plan in implemented. But the law has not changed. They do not criminalize forced labor. That is something we continue to raise with the government of cuba and something that is addressed but how do they deserve a waiver . The waiver looks at the written plan to make sure do we have access to that written plan . It is submitted by governments to the state department and we believe it would be chilling to share that plan submitted by a Foreign Government. It would be chilling to share a plan that is the basis of a statutorily mandated report and for which we could not make a judgment without knowing whether that plan is significant enough to give a country like cuba, any other country similarly situated a waiver that, is ridiculous. That is beyond, beyond the whole notion that in order not to freeze a deliberative process internally within the state department as it relates to these rankings that, in fact, we shouldnt have access to a report that a government gets a waiver on . Chairman, this is why reform of the existing legislation is if i may, one last question, ambassador sullivan i mean, secretary sullivan. A reuters report claims secretary sill terson overruled an assessment an removed them from the child soldiers prevention act and goes on he rejected a proposal to add afghanistan to that list. Is that account accurate . Well, senator, the secretary took the facts that were presented to him through the t. I. P. Report process, through the process that generated the recommendation to him, applied the legal standard, in his judgment, to the facts that were presented and reached his determination with respect to those three cases. So, the and im happy to discuss each of those three, burma, afghanistan and iraq. But, iraq. But it was his judgment his judgment of applying the legal standards to the facts that led to the well, i would be sbvery interested in understanding why he rejected the advice of state department experts. Mr. Chairman, may i . Go ahead. Two points on that. We are secretary for each of these determinations makes his own independent judgment. I would be happy to brief you on this issue as well as on the issue you raised previously with ambassador coppitch wikileath respect, as well as Going Forward with cuba, both Law Enforcement and migration issues and with respect to trafficking in persons and provide you with information, if not a plan susan described, sufficient information so you understand what our position is with respect to cuba. I wont belabor it, even though theres been other members present, the chairman has been very gracious, but i would like an answer in writing and i would be happy to take your answer. This answer we cant see a report that has nothing to do with deliberations to determine whether a country should get a waiver or not, that is beyond the scope, from my perspective it is beyond the scope and not acceptable. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. Thank you, senator cardin. I am troubled with your answer there. The child soldier prevention act requires the identification of those governments armed forces or governments or armed forces that recruit or use child soldiers. The 2014 report lists burma and afghanistan as countries that use and recruit child soldiers by government forces. It seems thats a direct contradiction if it is listed in the tip report but removed from the child soldiers prevention act. Senator cardin, with respect to burma for example, the burmese government has undertaken in response to prodding from the United States and others significant efforts to prevent the recruitment of child soldiers. And in having anyone who was recruited as a child to serve as a soldier to be be released from that service. So we had 112 cases in 2016 of child soldiers in burma who were released from their service because they had been recruited as children, and that was among the factual bases that the secretary relied on in making his determination. But is it correct, was the tip report correct to say that burma still recruits and uses child soldiers . We have concerns about the recruitment of child soldiers in burma and we will continue to be monitoring that extremely closely, but factually secretary made the determination with respect to this particular reporting period, given the results that ambassador coppidges efforts among others, to get the government to remove those that had been recruited as child soldiers 112 from that service, that factually that determination was mandated. What i dont understand i understand you to say theyre making progress. Any understanding of the child soldier prevention act is if they do recruit and use child soldiers, theyre listed. So it seems to me theres an inconsistency with the findings in the tip report and the determination on the child soldiers prevention act. The factual determination on whether there were in fact child soldiers who were recruited during that time period as opposed to prior instances of the government of burma recruiting child soldiers, the secretary the factual basis for the secretarys determination was that, in fact, the burmese government was releasing child soldiers from service. We still have concerns about that practice, about the burmese government commitment to end that practice and maintain that practice, but that was the factual basis for the determination. I dont have i should have the report in front of me, but at least the summary i have shows that the 2017 report indicates that burma still uses and recruits child soldiers. Am i wrong . With respect to the report, the report always looks back at a fiveyear snapshot to capture whats been going on in a country. Theres also a difference in definition between trafficking laws and the child soldier prevention act. There are some age differences in those two laws. I understand that. My question is during the reporting period did burma use and recruit child soldiers . With respect to individuals under the age of 18, there have been reports in the past five years that child soldiers were recruited and used. It seems to me that this is a mixed message. I think congress very clearly was told the child soldiers prevention act wanted the United States to be very clear, it is not a matter of making improvements, it is a matter of whether they do it or dont do it. It seems to me that the tip report says yes, they still do this, and the delisting indicates an inconsistency with our commitment against child soldiers. Do you want to follow up on any of these . Are we good . Absolute lichlt ly, go ahead. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I have one other question i didnt get to. Let me ask you this, ambassador, how many rankings could not be decided between you and other Senior State Department officials and therefore had to be elevated to the secretary . As you know, senator, we sit down at the working level and reach consensus recommendations in the majority of cases. This year five were elevated. And in those instances was there ever an occasion where factors not related to the governments efforts to combat trafficking kang up in discussion of a countrys ranking . Not that im aware of. Not in discussions i participated in. If i may, i would like to back up too let me, because i want to be kachl of my time. In those actions did you consider actions that took place outside of the reporting period . No. One last question to you, in the contempt of those elevated to the secretary, was there nio indication where factors not related to the governments efforts to combat trafficking come up in the discussion about a countrys ranking . Snun. None whatsoever . None whatsoever. So in example of chinas case, it is purely what they did as relates to the lack of their standards meeting under the trafficking and exactly. The secretary applied the statutory standards to the facts. Thank you, sir. I appreciate the kind of questions that have been asked and i really do, and i think that highlighting the importance of this to all of us and also the premeetings we had with many of the people that you rufrd to, ambassador, they put this report together and in charge of regions, points to the fact that we care deeply about this issue. I do think that this years report was vastly, vastly different than what we experienced in 2015, but i still appreciate the fact that people want to probe and understand why decisions are made about child soldiers and or other issues. So i hope you can see the importance to us and we see firsthand as we travel around the world the effect of us paying attention to this. So thank you for being here. Let me just is there Something Else that we could be doing, that our nation can be doing to really stamp out, help stamp out, move towards stamping out what occurring that is not being done today . Well, certainly this committees dedication to the issue has raised its profile and shown it is not simply one branch of the u. S. Government that cares. The executive branch cares. The legislative branch cares and raises these issues. I think that has been very important on the global stage in contributing to u. S. Leadership on this issue. It is such a challenging area to work in, but having the support and even the probing questions as you noted at this hearing i was able when i traveled to malaysia, which was the first country i went to after the tip report was released last year, i was able to say, m you neyou n watch this hearing and see how concerned our elected officials are about trafficking in this country. Certainly having sort of a doublefisted approach to the problem has been incredibly helpful, and i appreciate the collaboration that we have had. One point, mr. Chairman, not directly related to the tip report but just on human rights generally, i want to know with sadness and regret that liu xiaobo, chinese nobel laureate, has passed away. Both the secretary and i and our ambassador has raised his case previously with the chinese government, and it is an example of our commitment to human rights. It is regrettable what happened to this person, a nobel laureate, but it is, again, an example of our commitment to how many rights and our commitment to you and this committee that we will take these issues very seriously. When secretary tillerson was having his confirmation hearings i know there had been some concerns about focusing on how many rights and our leadership in that regard. I will have to say and i think the committee has had a degree of effect on that, but i think his own experiences as he has traveled the world and seen the importance of u. S. Leadership in this regard and the effect that it has on other countries has caused him to to really step up in that regard. I just hope as a result of this meeting, but the many encounters we have had and i know susan has had and people throughout the state department to us, holding up the ideals of human rights, of ending trafficking is something that is part of an american ideal and something that we want to see championed in every way. We thank you for being here, director. Senator kaine is here and i think he wants to question. Mr. Secretary, thank you for raising that case. That information came to us during this hearing. A tragic loss of a great human rights figure in china, and i appreciate you mentioning it at this hearing and that the attention that we gave this to the chinese. Senator kaine thank you, mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses. I apologize for being late and i hope i dont ask a question thats already been covered. The administration is reportedly considering a new position, ambassador at large for human rights, that would focus on refugee and humanitarian aid issues in addition to combatting trafficking. I think it may be a potential consolidation. What effect would it have on the tip process if your position were effectively eliminated or assumed under a broader position overseeing the state departments role in humanitarian aid and refugee in addition to trafficking . Thank you. Certainly the department and this commission are committed to combatting trafficking. Secretary tillerson spoke to it a few weeks ago at the roll out of the report. The administration had listening sessions on Human Trafficking, so i know it is a priority for this administration and will continue to be as the reorganize is examined. There have been no Firm Decisions made about a reorganization, but there are people in our embassies around the world and in my office that will keep this issue on the front burner. If i could, mr. Sullivan, if you would respond to that as well, what is the current thought about reorg in this area . Theyre only in the thought process, senator. No decision has been reached on this issue except the decision that susan has noted, that the secretarys commitment the administrations commitment as noted by the presence of the Senior Adviser, ivanka trump, Senior Adviser to the president who was with the president , and the integrity of the process that produces this report is as sound as it possibly could be and will be preserved and protected. However, the redesign goes forward. Thank you for that. In january of 2016. Clapper reported that the National Intelligence council intends to issue for the first time a National Intelligence estimate on Human Trafficking this summer. Take was reported in january. Do you know what status of that effort is . Is it still under way to do an nie report on Human Trafficking some time this year . I dont, senator. I defer to the ambassador, but if we dont have the answer we will get back to you promptly with that. Ambassador coppidge, do you know the answer to that question . I dont. We will have to get back to you. I will submit it specifically in writing and would appreciate your response to that. I am always try to ask western hemisphere questions so let me jump to that hemisphere. The budget request for the administration in western hemisphere is significantly reduced. Costa rica, and others were upgraded to tier two in 2017. Guatemala and nicaragua dropped to tier two and joined cuba. Theres clearly a lot of action in the americas on this issue now. How do you think that cut, if it is carried out in the budget, would affect the ability of the countries in that region or our ability to help them combat trafficking in persons . So certainly towards trafficking being a priority im hoping that the budget cuts will stay away from what the administration has acknowledged is a priority. We also just recently entered into a Child Protection compact with the government of peru whereby we will focus approximately five Million Dollars over three to four years with ngos there addressing the problem of child trafficking in peru. So we are still very engaged. We obviously have International Program funds going to central and south america. It is an area where we believe we will still continue to be an important player and still put our energies and focus on that area. And i know this is kind of a hard question to answer generally, but as youre looking at latin america generally, do you think the arc is going the right way, the wrong way, kind of staying the same or is it spotty depending on the country . So i think around the world Law Enforcement and governments are getting ready at identifying trafficking, recognizing it for the crime that it is instead of a smuggling crime or an immigration crime or a prostitution crime. Theyre Getting Better identifying the crime as trafficking. And so the numbers for trafficking cases are going up. I dont think it is because the problem is getting worse. I think it is because were Getting Better at naming and identifying it. It is very hard to say which way it is going. The report though documents government efforts to combat this crime, and i believe government efforts are on the Positive Side of that arc, but they are increasing. Any additional comments to that, mr. Sullivan, on latin america . No, i think the am bass coba summed it up very well. Thank you. I appreciate the witnesses and i thank you for your testimony. I think were about ready to wrap up. Thank you. Im sorry weve got multiple things happening right now, none more important than this. We will keep the record open until the close of business monday. We thank you for your testimony, for coming back for this and staying through the reports. Great production. We look forward to continuing to work with you on this issue and the department and all of the outstanding people that ambassador coppidge referred to. We look forward to a continuing relationship with you, in other ways we hope, and with that the meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. The Senate ForeignRelations Committee meets tuesday to can consider the nomination of Callista Gingrich to be ambassador to the vatican. She is the wife of former House Speaker newt gingrich. In addition to her testimony the testimony will hear from nathan sales, the nominee for state department temperature cord nator. We will have live coverage of the con dpfirmation hearing starting at 10 00 a. M. Eastern here on cspan3. Sunday on q a. When we look at president obamas domestic legacy i think there are two things that are very important that well have long lasting, good consequences for the United States that can be summarized in four words. Sonia sotomayor and elena cage cagean, supreme court. Ricing star covers president obamas life until winning the presidency. I think the point to em pta sitpta emphasize him there were scores of people in illinois who had known him earlier who were deeply disappointed in the trajectory of the obama presidency, and disappointed in two ways. Number one, disappointed that barack forgot many of the people essential to his political rock. Sunday at 8 00 a. M. Eastern on cspans q a. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 197 cspan was created as a Public Service by americas cable triggs companies and is brought to you