Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hearing Examines Border Security Effectiveness 20161008

The subcommittee is meeting today to examine defense in depth strategy and its effect on local communities. I recognize myself for an opening statement. Id like to thank chief mark morgan testifying now before congress for the first time as the new chief of Border Patrol. Im sure you will be spending frequent visits the our subcommittee as we discuss very important questions related to Border Security. Things like what does a secure border hook like. What are the right tools and strategies to achieve a secure border and how do we measure success or failure. I want to focus on the second question. Specifically the unintenses consequences that live along the border including my constituents. In the early 1990s they were out matched in all aspect of illegal activity. Both between and at the port of entry. Yet despite having a smaller Border Patrol at the time agents apprehended millions of people. Border patrols response to this activity lead to operations hold the line and gate keeper that surged resources to the border in those major urban areas. In the shortterm it stemmed the tide of elicit activity. However it has the unintended effect of pushing it away from you are p urban areas. And and the strategies effectiveness by exmaining in urban areas he have a mere seconds to minutes to intercept the illegal activity and minutes to hours and this rural areas they have hours to day and they have profound ramifications for pop you hated rural areas along the border like my business in arizona. Our fellow residents are exposed to this elicit activity. Destroys their property and puts their lives at risk. Small businesses and tourism suffer from the illegal activity thats pushed deep into the interior of the country by a strategy that i believe needs to be reexamined. To be clear im not asking agents to link arms across the border 2,000 miles, shoulder to shoulder. What i am asking for is that we focus our resources and manpower more at the line of scrimmage, not, five, ten, 100 miles inland. It should be arranged with the intent of anticipating deterring and stopping most activity before it enters our communities using the overwhelming majority of agents and the technology as close to the line is as it will allow. In many instances i have observed mile long stretches of the border with little to no agent activity patrolling the road near the fence. I have also witnessed whole sections of fence cut out allowing untold number of vehicles to come across the border before being detected. Presence on the border matters. Serving as a deturnt to legal activity and Rapid Response to inevitable breeches. Geography has an effect. But we cannot see 10 to 100 miles or more of u. S. Territory waiting for these actors to be caught at the time an place of our choosing. Ib stead we have to take the fight to them at the earliest point of the incursion. In tucson, 48 of the total number of apprehensions took mace more than five miles from the fiscal border. Compare that with yuma where more than 84 of illicit crossings are apprehended in the first five miles. For citizens that live along the border five miles is like an eternity. Interior checkpoints are part of the approach to Border Securities that created challenges for the men and women that i was sent here to represent. They use a mix of permanent and tactical checkpoints. Theyre designed to push the elicit traffic around the checkpoints. But they have really introduced it as a way of life for law abiding citizens that live near the checkpoints. To add insult to injury the checkpoints are closed when it rains to prevenn a traffic accident. All they have to do is wait for the weather to change to bypass the layer of defense. They conducted an indepth study concerning check points and impact on local communities. They closely track the impact of checkpoints on communities. To date wrote think the Border Patrol has followed or immemented the recommendations put i look forward to talking about that today and we do have a university of arizona representative on the second panel. Defense in depth and layered approach to the Border Security sounds good in theory but theres real world negative impacts for the american citizens that live at or near the border. I look forward to hearing from the chief and witnesses to discuss a better approach. We recognize the gentleman from texas for any statement he might have. I dont have a lot more to add. I want to welcome you chief morgan to this hearing today and congratulate the appointment and your agencies and these checkpoints comes from having across the checkpoint virtually all of my life. When i was a young lawyer i travel between brownsville and corpora corpus christie. It didnt make sense that i as an american citizen born in brownsville would have to be asked whether or not i was a citizen two hours north. However my father was a federal judge with jurisdiction over the checkpoint and when i would often voice my frustration, he would remind me of the volume of aprehengs that he would witness so overtime i soften my reaction. Your agency is very much a part of life across the entire u. S. Mexico border and for those of us in south texas over the course of last year i can tell you i have talked to your agents on an official basis sometimes but more often on an unofficial basis because they live all around us. Theyre part of our social fabric and i can tell you that you have some challenges ahead because over the course of the last year, there is hardly an agent that i have run into. Many who have been part of the agency for many, many years who have expressed a level of dissatisfaction and im just feeling a lot of low morale with many of the people that work for the agency. So i look forward to working with you as we move forward with the rest of the committee to see what we can do about improving morale. For the agents on the ground and doing what we can to make your agency as effective as possible. Other members of the committee are reminded that Opening Statements maybe submitted for the record. Were pleased to be joined by two panels of witnesses to discuss the topic today. The first witness is plflt mark morgan. The chief of the United States Border Patrol. A position he assumed earlier this year. While at the fbi chief more fwan served as the El Paso Division and inspection division. Chief morgans full written statement will appear in the statement. The chair now recognizes the chief for five minutes. Good morning. Distinguished members of the subcommittee ch. Thank you for holding this important hearing today. This is a proud moment for me. This is the first appearance at a congressional hearing. Representing the dedicated and talented men and women of the United States Border Patrol. During my first two months here as chief ive had the privilege to meet thousands of staff and trainees among the northern, southern and coastal borders and the United States Border Patrol academy and headquaters here in washington. I cant think of a better way for me to have started my tenure than to get out in the field and listen and learn and observe. Its exceeded my expectations and owl of these interactions, two facts have been crystal leer to me. I still have a hot to learn and two the men and women of the United States Border Patrol have one of the toughest jobs in the federal Law Enforcement. The complex challenges that we face are more difficult than i have seen in my 30 years of my career. Its constantly involving and this demands that we do the same. This was never more evident than my charge to the El Paso Division in texas. And the Intelligence Community ahong the southwest border are unparalleled. It was there i first learned about the vast and challenging Border Patrol mission and how critical it is to our security. I was equally impressed with the men and women serving honorably to carry out that complex constantly involving a never ending mission. I can tell you from my personal experience they are hard working and dedicated to this mission and their country and have and continue to make personal sacrifices to protect the citizens of this great nation. So i said before you today honored and privileged to be part of the United States Border Patrol team. The numbers we often hear associated with the United States Border Patrol are the numbers of apprehensions of those to illegally enter the country every year. Its hundreds of thousands. Id like to take a few minutes to also share some other numbers that we dont often talk about. I learned that the United States Border Patrol agents are among the most assaulted Law Enforcement personnel in the country. Theres been 7,542 assaults and 30 agents have died in the line of duty since 2003. The recent passing of alvarez serves as a vivid reminder of the dangerous, challenging and unique environment that Border Patrol agents are asked to experience. Another number which often gets little mention is how often Border Patrol agents put themselves in harm ways to provide Emergency Medical Care and assistance to those in need to include those trying to illegally enter the United States, every year the United States Border Patrol is involved in the rescue of thousands of victims of human smuggling and across the United States more than 3,700 this fiscal year along and risks his life to save four victims that were surely to drowned and also the Border Patrol agents risked their own lives to rescue individuals that were attempting to enter the United States and found themselves trapped in green valley arizona and just a few weeks ago the buffalo sector Border Patrol marine euns made land fall on the canadian shore in the middle of night after observing a house was on fire, they made land fall and they alerted the residents family and escorted them safely as the home became engulfed in flails. Todays hearing, its to discuss Border Patrol agents and the strategic use of checkpoints. I think that it does acknowledge that it can occur away from the immediate border. And it includes a threat based multifaceted approach such as checkpoints and operating basis that are strategically located on known routes from the border thoen to maximize resources and prevent a single point of failure. A few weeks ago a driver attempted to flea the checkpoint in the valley. They were discovered locked in a vehicle trunk with no means of escape. The dedicated and skilled Law Enforcement personnel and partnerships the use of checkpoint operations are to protect this countrys National Security. Ensure the safety of the public. Were here to serve. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to your questions. And dialogue concerning where as an agency we can get better at what we do. I now recognize myself for five minutes for questions. So as a relatively new chief of Border Patrol and one that wasnt an agent first you mentioned that you have taken time and toured the different sectors and just taking a fresh look as to the mission that they have, the challenges that they have. So based on that and the topic of this hearing which checkpoints is one element of it but really were looking at the full defense strategy. Can you share, what did you learn about the defense in depth strategy and do you agree this should continue to be the approach that we take especially in rural communities. Im probably going to stop referring it as a depth and defense strategy. And that means theyre actually seeding ground and territory. I dont think thats what im seeing. I think that what im seeing after too much, i still have a lot to learn. Ill take a hard look at this and im asking a lot of questions. What im observing is the strategy as i said in my statement is trying to come up with a comprehensive multifaceted layer strategy that prevents us from having a single point of failure. Thats really my concern. Now theres lots of different ways that maybe that can be achieved and we need to take a look at that and continue to grow. I think the Border Patrol is going in the right direction being that threat based Intelligence Driven on rationally focused organization thats supported with infrastructure and technology and personnel but also that, i think part of that strategy, we know that regardless of as we continue grow on that operation, you focus approach supported by technology and people. Things are getting across. Thats what i saw. Were getting better. Were not where we need to be but were getting better. So what do we do to prevent the things that do get crossed and do get buy crassed . How do we have a strategy that gives us a second look at that. Gives us a Second Chance of that to eliminate that single point of failure. Thats what im seeing with respect to the strategy. So thanks chief. During your time and your discussion and your visits were you able to see or do you agree that, again, if you see the vast majority in the tucson sector anyway of aprehengs taking place north of five mile prs the border that the elicit activity does have some serious repercussions to border communities and residents . Yes, maam. Absolutely agree. Ive been to del rio. I have sat with the ranchers. One night i had dinner with the local ranchers there. It was a great barbecue and i sat and i talked with them and the elements that you mention in your opening comments are exactly what theyre saying as well and i think that theyre absolutely legitimate in everything that they say. If i was a rancher and i hear that they talk about the things that they do have what others may see as a small gate left open. Its not, cattle can get out. They could have devastating impacts they have seen people that have passed on their property. Their property is getting broken into. Things are being stolen. So its absolutely a sere warehouse issue and i can say my tour and being out in the field especially on the southwest border, i have not met a agent yet that doesnt understand that and take that equally as serious. My understanding is that we are now below 20,000 agents nationwide and then i guess the other question related to the strategy is of the agents that you have are you taking a look at where they are assigned . We hear a lot from the agents themselves about those being detailed away and not enough are mustering actually to be out patrolling on a daily basis. Those percentages as we have done some different visits and talking to people seem to be a little bit lopsided as far as those that are out in the field versus those that are in other assignments. Are you taking a look at that and what have you learned from the number of agents and where theyre actually assigned . Yes, maam. So i think all that you just said, im taking a look at that across the board. First to answer your question, do we have enough. My first immediate answer is, i dont know yet when it comes to the personnel because i think we have to do also what you said is take a look at the resource allocation and where are they at. I think also its a layered approach. I think to answer that question honestly its a little premature i think for me to be able to to that and have that confidence before i give you the numbers because part of that is increasing our ability to identify and understand the threat and have the situation awareness to be able to be continue to grow, being Intelligence Driven and focussing our operations toward that threat. Its a combination of infrastructure and technology think the use of infrastructure and technology it could impact the need for number of agents so im taking a look at that. I think you hit the other element right on the head is that basically are the agents where they need to be. I dont know. Whereon. Im taking a look at that. Im asking those questions. If you look at the history as you mention as well, you know, hold the line, gate keeper, if you look at the history of the Border Patrol resources had to be shifted as the threat shifted. Thats hard for an organization that is static in nature. Meaning people have to move and buy homes and et cetera and being agile and mobile enough to be constant and have that constant ability to be able to go where the evolving threat is. We have mobile Response Teams so some sectors may see some agents leave. I dont know, may see agents leave the tuscan sector but they may be going to rgv, theyre getting hammered right now with the influx of folks crossing. So we have to take a look at that. I think in a wholistic approach. But were taking a hard look at that. Thanks. One more quick question on the checkpoints and then another round because toii want to go deeper into it. We have permanent checkpoints on most roads in arizona and across the rest of the border. Look, if you are a hardened cartel operative and you drivethru a known Border Patrol checkpoint you should get the darwin award. Okay so as i have talked to agents and your predecessor your picking up the low level criminals that dont know better and think theyll get through but not the serious cartels. The way its described is you intend that the cartels are going to go around the checkpoints and hah pushes them into the communities. Well hear about the impacts of that and we dont want to have the dialogue and make sure that we get the discussion out in the first panel. We talk to agents that dont have enough to go out and patrol the walk around. So if the agents are at the checkpoints but theyre not out there fanning out for those going around it then youre still not intercepting them yet theyre a Public Safety threat to the communities around the checkpoints. So can you talk a little bit about that checkpoint strategy . The fact that theyre fixed versus roaming, they close down when the rain comes so the pad guys lineup during monsoon season. And what your assessment is of how we can improve or take a fresh hook at the use of these checkpoints. Yes, maam. First of all, absolutely we should take a hook at this. 100 and i am and we are. Looking for every opportunity to ill prove. Thats how Great Organizations get better and the Border Patrol is a Great Organization but the way we get better is to continue to challenge ourselves and ask ourselves if what were doing working and is it effective. So ill be asking those questions. More specific ill to do a little bit more work to be able to provide you a solid answer whether specific cartels are using the the check points. I can tell you from my experience 20 years in the fbi as well as what i have seen thus far on the Border Patrol is that serious drug cartels do use lower level mules to do transportation. I think last year alone, checkpoints, i think it was around 75,000 tons of drugs seized this year at the checkpoints so they are getting serious amounts of drugs. Now theyre ttps and sometimes the loads are smaller but hah doesnt mean its not coming from a sere krousse Drug Trafficking organization. Theyre changing their ttps. The other part with respect to pushing around the community. I think im seeing theres some truth to that im seeing they do have roving patrols around that and they base that on the traffic flows and they set up intermediate or temporary checkpoints as well to try to stop the flow of people going around and they do have a strategy of trying to address that wholistically, how effective is that. I still need to get more data on that to be able to provide you a good answer. Ill tell you at some checkpoints in arizona they dont have the manning to do the roving patrols. Where is the border patr patrol manning going and can you address the issues and the impact again on the private property and the local communities and im going to go around and yield to my Ranking Member for these opening questions. So are you making a distinction between the effectiveness of the checkpoints in terms of catching people versus catching loads of narcotics. Im not sure what you mean by taking a difference. I kbesz what im curious about is, we see statistics when we cross these checkpoints in terms of pounds of cocaine that have been, you know, that has been detected and so much marijuana. Im trying to get an assessment as to what your sense of how effective a checkpoints are with respect to aprehengs of narcotics versus aprehengs of people. Checkpoints are an effective part right now of the strategy to prevent us from having a single point of failure. I am seeing that. Im not saying that theres not alternatives that we should look at our could look at as part of the strategy to prevent us from having a single point of failure. But the structure right now that the statistics are showing they are effective at the immigration inforcement. And last year the checkpoints across southwest porder was about 8,000. This year were on track for that same number as well. So on its face, did they appear to be effective as that part of the strategy to prevent us from having a single point of failure. And in addition to that, i would categorize it as very successful with respect to drug seizures. I think theyre also being some what successful in catching people, criminals that have outstanding warrants, state, federal, local warrants for some pretty violent and heinous crimes as well as those convicted of Violent Crimes in the past. That also happened at the checkpoints as well. I was trying to get your assessment of the effectiveness of the checkpoints with respect to those different tasks that the agency has at the checkpoints. I think right now i would say that there appeared to be effective, especially with the resources. And theyre dedicated to the checkpoints and its a very small amount of the resources dedicated to resources overall. I would say that the statistics being produced by those checkpoints, i will say at this point knowing what i do now i could categorize them as being successful. Back on the issue of morale, just to give you an idea of how entrenched the Border Patrol has been and in my life there, your agents were pallbearers at my fathers funeral. When i talked to agents, it happened last weekend at a Golf Tournament and two agents came up to me and they had the same story and it was, how deeply things had changed from their perspective. In the Border Patrol and not for the good. From a morale standpoint. This is not just a statement on the Border Patrol or the department of Homeland Security but with respect to federal agencies in general. And the disconnect between the offices up here in washington d. C. And whats going on on the ground and i guess what im i know that you just started and i know that these assessments that you have made are the initial assessments but what can you tell us about where youre headed with respect to improving morale and for that matter, these conclusions arent based on statistics that i have read or notebooks are handed and these are conversations that i had with the people that work for you, right. Are you getting the same sense i am . Or is it different . Yes, sir, well first i would absolutely love to maybe do an off line or get more in depth of what youre hearing from the line agents. Its the chief of Border Patrol. Thats exactly what i need to hear. If im going to take a look at issues and be able to have the ill pact that i needment i go out there and part of what i tell them is part of being a relentless advocate understanding part of what theyre feeling each and every day. On day three i decided i was going to go out to the field and im going to visit every single sector. All 20 sectors and since i have been out there i have stood in front of 30 and talked to two mechanics in the garage and i listened to them so i am hearing issues about morale. Morale is not where it needs to be. But theres a lot of reasons for that. And its very complicated. Its the fed survey that the federal Employee Viewpoints went out that it really kind of told us and identified that there are some morale issues an theres some challenges but thats only one point of context so what the Border Patrol did was they commissioned an outside entity to come in and take a look at the basic information of the fed survey and they went out and Border Patrol chief sector and all the way down to the mechanic and from that, they came up with these basic 8 core areas and then we brought back additional people to do a deeper dive to get to the core root of issues and my plan is to do targeted teens on those issues and address the issues to improve morale. Those are specific things but i think theres also some bigger things that we need to take a look at too. We mentioned some of those as well. Thats the second thing that i tell them as part of my job that i think will impact morale is to get the resources and the training and the tools and technology and do the job effectively and safely and this goes to the heart of the hearing as a matter of fact is is our strategy right. Are the things that were using correct. We do everything. I can tell you, im not accepting anything that i see as the right thing. Im not doing that. I am asking questions. And i am asking for an explanation as to why were doing this. Is this the right thing . Are there alternatives to prevent us from having a single point of failure or are checkpoints the only thing that we can do. Thats important Going Forward. I look forward to working with you on that issue and many others and what i can tell you is im sure the surveys are real nice and everything and between mr. Herd and mr. Higgins that represents the northern border and those of us that interact with your agencies every day and not to mention the really think about that. So what you know the percentages that are apprehended on the corner. These are people there after friday can, the middle east, you know, asia, whats that percentage based on your knowledge . Yes, sir, i dont know that exact percentage of otf. Thats no problem. America just needs to know that there are people crossing our border that are not just from latina that are coming to take jobs and that there are folks that have traveled great distances using false or Fake Passports and a lot of money, traveling through south achl and coming into this country. Some may have goals of providing for their family, i dont discount that. But i believe some may have nefarious goals. On the heels of 9 11 im going to be cognizant of that. Congress failed to appropriate the dollars to complete the job. I dont know how many miles are being completed now. I believe in more fencing. I believe it works because i believe there are areas i know there are areas you cant fence in the galas, sectors, mountains or high. What it does is it puts the bad element, i guess, into corridors that makes your personnel more effective. I see it as a forced multiplier. But we all know that a taller fence means a higher ladder and elements are going to cross over that fence. Thats where electronic surveillance, thats where other forced multipliers actually come in, i appreciate that. If you go and look on jeff duncan put it up there on facebook, theres a video in san diego. It isnt the most conservative news source. They were talking about the fact that people were coming into this country apprehended by you guys and let go because theyre climbing asylum. It also saying this isnt a policy thats bottom up. This is from the very top guy sitting down here in 1,600 pennsylvania avenue saying let him go. I will tell you in south carolina, were not very happy about that. About folks that have crossed our borders, violated american, we are a sovereign nation and theyre let go. So, and i dont blame you for that. These are problems weve got to work on that. Im offering help to work on it together as congress. And weve been told in six years ive been here by folks that we have operational control of the border. I cant get a good definition of what that operational control means, madame chairman, but i would ask the chief in your opinion what does operational control means and have we achieved operational control and Northern Borders for another topic, another day. Sir, ill start with the ladd latter, operational control. Two months in, i am taking a look. Im not sure, again, i copy that with two months in, im not sure operational control is the right way to look at this and im questioning that term to be able to vibe everyone that should with that definition. I think i go back to the strategy of being threat face and Intelligence Driven operational focus, supporting technology and personnel. With that is the framework. I think the goal is that were striving to have confidence levels through our situation awareness. Im asking folks, what are your confidence levels from zone to zone within a station within a sector throughout the entire 6,000 plus border miles in 2000 costal responsible for. I pulled a little bit up from my fbi experience as we went through in the aftermath of 9 11 trying to figure out and ask ourselves the same question. I want to be able to get to sector chief, to him or her and say what are your confidence levels with respect to the Situational Awareness that you have with your sector, tell me about that, talk to me about that, how did you get that. Talk to me about the intelligence process, talk to me about your partnerships, talk to me about the use of infrastructure and personnel that you used to get of that. We need a defined set of factors that go into sector chief being able to determine their competence level. Based on that, thats how we allocate those resources. I think thats the direction that we need to go, but im asking those questions, so, again, i will say im not sure operational control. One of the reasons why im not sure operation control is a right frame is because the ttps changed too quickly. Again, as mentioned, maam, your opening comments about gate keeper and hold the line. Those are great examples of how we did all of this and the stuff shifted. At one moment we can say operational control area and next minute it will change. If we have that process that i described, having Situational Awareness, i think thats going to position us better to be able to do what we need to do. I would like to talk a little bit of and respond to what you mentioned about people are coming here and they are being allowed to them coming to the United States. I think thats also something that we need to talk about and take a look at because when we talk about resources, specifically, manpower, what i see that were being asked to do, and please dont get me wrong, were going to do whatever were going to be asked to do. The political decisions of the policies of the United States thats not our goal to get involved in, whatever you decide, were going to do. What were being asked to do right now, i think you can phrase it a little bit as humanitarian issue. For example, some of what you referred to, sir, unaccompanied children are coming across. I stood in the rio grand valley on that the cut roads where a smuggler had told some children once they made land fall to go on the cut road. I was there and i watched that and i watched the little sixyearold girl holding the hands of her 11yearold brother and they made the trek all the way from honduras. Personally i wanted to take that little girl home with me, i did. Thats something that will probably stick with me my entire life. As chief of United States boarder patrol, since i think we have a National Security interest in this country, we have Law Enforcement threat in this country, i think when i look at that sixyearold, shes not a National Security threat or Law Enforcement threat. With respect to what i see my job as chief of Border Patrol. But im taking a lot of resources, a lot of resources dedicated to what i would say as humanitarian role and im taking them off the line. And so i think there needs to be discussion and im asking questions, what are some alternatives we can do instead of taking agents that have been trained that have a National Security mission should be on the front line, im taking them off that front line a lot to process a sixyearold and 11yearold thats part of humanitarian mission, i think thats a challenge. Let me just finish up by saying, i appreciate the position on the children. It is the right thing for america to do to try to figure out this. But the issue is exacerbated, madame chairman, by all the other things were talking about. When you think 49 of all illegals in this country didnt come across that southern border and northern border, they came with permission slip. America gave them permission to come to this country. We gave them and trusted them and they have violated that trust by over staying that visa and remaining in this country. Thats a different division, i get that. But going back to the point, that exacerbates the problem of being able to deal with her. So visa over stays, border enforcement, dealing with criminal element within this country then dealing with other illegals that happened to be in this country and what to do if theyre gainfully employed and that sort of thing, or whether its the children of people that have come here known as dreamers, but yo u have got to take it in priority, i think, because it all gets so convoluted as a total Immigration Reform package that were not able to have an adult civil conversation about her. So you mention structure, technology and personnel, im with it. But if you if they evade that fence, you pick them up with a ground sensor or a drone, you send the personnel to pick them up and theyre let go, two hours later, were wasting a heck of lot of money with Structure Technology and personnel. Okay. Weve dot to stop that and with that madame chairman, Great Committee hearing, i would love to bring him back when hes got a little bit a sense of the agency and have an in depth conversation about and this may be for the next congress. We ought to have an operational control hearing to delve more into what that looks like so, thank you so much, i yield back. Absolutely. And on that note, we had a hearing with your previous acting chief where were trying to address the issues of Situational Awareness and operational control. Part of the challenges that weve had is how do we measure effectiveness and those numbers have shifted over the years when we went from 2010 to measuring operational control to measuring number of apprehensions to some measure of being successful. If number of apprehensions go up when you dont know what the denominator is, is that a good thing or bad thing. So we address this issue in a hearing a couple of months ago, i know these are complicated issues, but i do want to follow up on the operational control discussion. From my perspective, again, there are two major measurements that i would be looking for as a subcommittee chair here. The first is, what percentage of the southern border do you have Situational Awareness of real time. So if something is coming up to the international boundary, we actually see it, real time, whether thats with a person, camera, man, unmanned, whatever it is, what now you may not be able to get to it right away. What are we actually, if it moves, we see it. And, again, these are complicated issues, but coming from a simple Fighter Pilot point of view of whats your Situational Awareness. The second question being, of those that you see what can you intercept as operational control. Second is, if you see it, you can get it. Right. So then you have a sense of the denominator you know, like we saw it we didnt get it so it went away. Thats the best part of the success rate impact. And when we pressed on this issue and some of the challenges we had with our constituents quite frankly in this last dialogue, the number of apprehensions is meaningless to most people, they dont have a sense of what level of confidence that we have. What percentage of the southern border that were focusing on that we have operational control. The answer we got out of the previous acting chief was a little bit over 56 , i think, was the number of real time Situational Awareness, if it moves, you see it, you know something is coming. Weve got to get ourselves in parallel where you can see it and be able to intercept it with the right asset that is you need. Horse patrol. Helicopters, whatever it takes, you know, to be able to intercept that ideally on the south side of our constituents ranch is not on the north side. And i think thats some of the challenges that bring us to kind of where we are here today. Obviously, if we were able to see what moves and intercept what moves as close to the border as possible, from my perspective spending time with the Border Patrol agent, if we were able to do that, not only would you be able to do the Mission Close tore the border as possible, which will impact all the discussions well have in the second panel, but also it impacts the humane tearian element, youre not having to go deal with someone out on the desert who is on the verge of dehydration and death because youre intercepting them right at the border. Weve got a number of narcotics coming to the check point. If we were able to push the line of scrimmage to the border, less will be making it around the border and into the communities and then going into the check points, does that make sense. So, you know, the part of our discussion is what can we do and what resources do you need to have Intelligence Driven operations like weve talked about, as soon as were effect tef, theyll shift their tactics, theyre innovative. What can we do to make sure you have the resource, policy, manpower, which is a win win for everybody. This is a win win for the ranchers, the one of my frustrations often is i feel like sometimes people are put against each other in this discussion. What the border residence and ranchers are looking for, is not what the agency is looking for. Were all in this together. We can find where our common interest are to protect our country and keep our community safe. And give the tools to the agents that they need to do that and that impacts the communities and the residence all the way around. This is the fundamentalal conversation that weve been having, you know, since ive been in congress and the time that i was running and now, you know, now that ive been in this position in the subcommittee chair. Based on all of that and wanting to get in this place, which i think we have a common interest on we see more, catch more, we give the tools to the agents that they need and purn that line of scrimmage closer to the border. The question is what else do you need in order to do that, what else do you need from us to provide those resources. Were not going to throw money at the problem. Is it more is it tactical drones, you know, what is it that you need in order to push this to the border so that if we were to do that you would see less and less coming through check points, less and less encouraging Public Safety issues because were going to push that line of scrimmage south to the international boundary. What else do you need . First of all, i agree with everything you just said, specifically, the Situational Awareness, i completely agree. And that kind of goes exactly what i was saying about the confidence levels. I also want to challenge the leaders that when they tell me what their Situational Awareness is, tell me about what your confidence is with respect to that, so i think youre spot on and i think we have absolutely the same goal. The goal is, absolutely, lets try to interdict everything we can right at the border, absolutely thats the goal. Its a challenge and it conflicts. Its about strengthening our Counter Network about. Its about reaching out to our partners, not just within the United States but our international partners, canada, mexico, et cetera. Its not about just being positioned when they hit the border, its about bringing the fight to them before they get to the border. Its about identifying, its about dismantling the tco through a threat development process, its about setting up solid infrastructure, a whole of government approach, whether its through corridor initiatives, whether its through the joint task forces to make sure that were working together, that were gathering intelligence or sharing intelligence and were doing joint operations based on that intelligence to utilize our resources. Whole apparatus lets take the fight before they get to the border. Once they get to the border, as you laid it out, i agree, its totally how you laid it out. Youre right, we our goal would be is, if were that effective, we dont need additional stuff. Now, i would say. I think it would be unrealistic that well catch everything at the border. You should always be something in place that prevents us from having a single point of failure. Im not saying check points will always be that issue, but i think you understand what i mean. So we have to continue to do that the last part, what do i need. I need to continue that threat base operationally focused approach. I need to make sure that we have the resources to drive intelligence, to gather intelligence to disseminate intelligence to continue to drive those operations to, hopefully, as Counter Network approach take the fight before they get to the border. So definitely looking at our intelligence resources. 132s and intelligence analysts do we need more, my gut says we do. With the rest of the resources, i dont think there will be im not going to be any different in that area, but i think i need some more time, so that we do take care of the precious taxpayers money to be able to tell you what it is we need with respect to the infrastructure and the technology and the manpower. On the humanitarian side, absolutely, dont Border Patrol, when i walked up they didnt know i was there. They were treating these kids with dignity and respect and compassion like they were their own. We will do that, absolutely, there may be an alternative, when i was a Police Officer for la. I would catch a fe lon, i would hand him off to a jailer to process. I would go back on the street. I dont know, can we do something similar to that when we get one of the unaccompanied children, that we turn them over to somebody else that can do the processing. And then we get the agents back out on line faster, thats something im taking a look at and i would ask your support for that, obviously, that will take some funding and some push to do that. The technology, thats an element, too, you mentioned integrated, thats going to be great resource in some other areas, it doesnt work in some areas. You go into buffalo sector. We need to constantly look at Additional Technology and so i probably looking for support when we come up for Additional Technology. Okay. Great. Thanks. I do want to go back to the agents and how the agents are used. Weve heard from a couple of different sources that in the tucson sector we keep hearing the number that 25 of the agent are not assigned to patrol borders thats i ear designed to do other things. We train them to do the job and weve got to make sure the vast majority, thats whats going to build their ground by the way, they were out there doing the job they were trained to do and not all the additional duties and details, the things that are not their core responsibility. Is that 25 number across the board or do you have better clarity on how many or what percent of the agents are actually not patrolling. So maam, i have not seen or provide the 25 number, so its pretty tough on your way on that. What i would say is it really depends on who youre talking to and example. As we talk about that, i am pushing folks leaders out in the field to put more people into task forces, right, to leverage that kind of whole governor approach. We should be integrated into the best teams, into the dea striped forces, we need to be in the west and east and et cetera f we need to push resources out there. Another thing that could be scene is at some times, sector, tucson sector was impacted by this when another sector like rgv is getting slammed with an increase, well mobilize the hospitalization team and theyll go to another sector to assist. Some people may think theyre being taken off the line, when theyre being reallocated to a line somewhere else we have a high priority threat going on that we have to do. Again, im asking the questions, especially units, you know. Do we have the right allocation, how many people are do we have off the line and what are the specifically doing . Abslootly ask them those questions, thats a fair question that should be asked. I know this is a snapshot in time, could you get back to us, of the agents that you have, basic percentages of numbers and how many are generally out there on the line. How many are a part of taskings and other things, you know e percentages ive get that, you need people in the Operational Center and all of that other stuff. If we could get a good sense from you and answer back on where we are noahs percentage wide. Yes, maam. I brought those numbers for myself. Great. Related on the second panel well hear from dr. Phil lip about the 2013 study they did with a series of recommendations to enhance. Data collection and determining the success of whether the check points are working and whether theyre manned correctly an what things can be done to do that, have any of those recommendations been implemented and do you agree or disagree with those recommendations . Yes, maam. I do know in part, thats something i need to do a little bit deeper dive. It has improved dramatically where were tracking the number of apprehensions. Were trking the number of man hours thats spent at check points, so there are numerous data points that are being collected so that we can try to get closer to coming up to measure effectiveness of the check points. The specific can you follow up on whether those specific. They put a lot of effort taxpayer money into studying as follow up from the 2009 jao study about, hey, how can we improve our understanding of the effectiveness of the check points, can you follow up with those specific recommendations. Do you agree or disagreed. How many are in the process of being implemented. Thank you, i real di dont have another question. I just wanted to tell the chief, i apologize that theres not more active participation today. Weve got ojr with Hillary Clintons emails, you know, just a lot going on on the hill. It was only two members of congress that had to answer all the questions and all of that and think theres not interest in this topic. I can assure you that there is. Mr. Herd came briefly. Very trusted and these over stays, of course, all the way around with former chairwoman and others, even on the democrat side. Theres interest in this issue and i think at some point in time having another year and having you come back would be awesome. I didnt want you to leave here going, theres not any interest in congress about what im doing. There absolutely is. It just the way things are going, the hills sometimes and just know that my state, defined by the state in very interested. We dont have a border. We have an International Border i guess we fly in. Any way, thank you so much, god bless you and god speed. I look forward to meeting with you again. I wouldnt mindseting up something privately to get to know you a little better because we want to work Going Forward. Gentleman yields back. This wraps up this portion of our hearing. Thanks, chief for your testimony, from theres potentially some questions that are going to come out of the second panel that we need to follow up with you on and there may be other members 0 f the committee that have questions for you and so when we submit those we got those back in writing and thanks for your testimony today and youre dismissed and clerk will prepare witnesses for the second panel. Thanks. I would like to thank the witnesses for our second panel today. Ill first introduce them and well start with the testimony. Gary brasher, currently residing in arizona. Hes established many local businesses including full Service Brokerage company, communications company, grocery store, mr. Brasher is the past president of the Santa Cruz Valley Citizens Council and currently serves as the vice chair of chamber of commerce, good to see you. Rancher and farmer from the southern border where she has resided over 40 years. She currently serves as the clerk of Natural Resource conservation district which assist of the projects that keep them informed of the technologies available to sustain their farms and ranches. In recent years shes become active to issues in her Community Associated with Border Security and illegal immigration. Dr. Elise is Director Center of Border Security and immigration or borders headquartered at the university of arizona. Borders provide Cross Cutting Technology and search to enhance the nations security. Expertise includes cross border trade and Border Management policy. Shes currently a joint Research Initiative with the european Border Security agency, where she organized a twoweek shop for screening and Decision Support at border crossings. Mr. Christian ramirez is director of Southern Border Communities Coalition and serves as the humans right director of 1997. Hes been acting by the issues related to immigration policy and its impact on southern border communities. Hes presented a National Gathering on the state of human rights and u. S. Mexico border. Hes National Recognized spokesperson statements will appear in the record. If you can put your microphone on. Thank you chairman and Ranking Member and members of the committee. My name is gary brad sher, i wont go into a lot of detail on my background the congress has touched on that briefly. I have offered the opportunity for you to look at it in detail. Ive lived in the Santa Cruz Valley for 34 years now as a businessman as the chairwoman expressed, i have a variety of businesses down there. Gives me opportunity to be in the community and really listen to what people are saying, not just my own experiences, but the experiences of others. I can tell you that the defense and depth strategy has had just a moment ago we heard the chief say its a multi layered approach to the defense of our border. Its had a variety of layer impact on communities and north of that check point. I can tell you that the check point has moved 25 miles north of the actual is moved. It creates, instead of 261 border to defend, you can quickly see the math, it creates square mile area at the chief and his officers have to know. That increases the manpower needed and the area, its created, unfortunately of those south of the check point, what we call kind of a nomans land. Area south of the fixed check point but north of the actual border. Once individuals involved in the illegal Illegal Immigrants or bringing illegal contraband into the United States, once they get across the actual border. Pretty within that 25 and the unfortunate thing is that thats where we work, thats where our children go to school. So that area that we call the nomans land is where we live every single day of our lives. And as was pointed out earlier, theres, without question, the flaking of that check point takes place in the Santa Cruz Valley, without question. There are a number of routes, and i put a map on my testimony so that you can look at those these routes formerly. But theres a gas line down that runs north and south through the Santa Cruz Valley around the check point. Theres a powerline that runs north and south around the check point. Theres the Santa Cruz River which provides a great deal of canopy and cover for anybody involved in inlegal active toy to sur couple vent the check point to get around it. And thats where our communities are. Thats where our subdivisions are. Thats where our businesses are and people live in those areas. This policy of actually putting people in direct contact with those who are involved in illegal activity is frankly mind boggling to me. We have to deal with it every day. Ive had people show up at my home. I live in a subdivision west of the check point, a little bit west of the gas line. Ive had individuals show up at my front door who are bleeding all over who had been shot. They were, apparent i, in some kind of altercation with rival gangs trying to steal the guns they were bringing across. Ive talked to businessmen time after time about people who were concerned about coming south of the check point. In many cases, i know this sounds there might be something that are skeptble about this, but there are people who wont come down to our particular area because they think they need a passport to get back into the United States. Or theyre afraid to go through the check point simply because theyre not use to that level of ill use the term militarization some one comes in to play golf or go to convention and they have to go back to the check point for the first time for most of them in their lives. Theyre exposed to drug sniffing dogs, theyre exposed to people with semiautomatic weapons crossing the chest. Theyre exposed to having their car looked at carefully, when think ear making the determination where to go even for a wedding and they think about having to go back through that check point or their guests, many of them are just opting not to even come down. Theyll stay north of the check point at some point. I fully recognize what the chief said earlier. They have a tough job and i want to reiterate that the vafst majority of people have a very difficult job and one that carries with it a lot of risk on the Border Patrol. However, having said that, this multi tiered check point strategy has had tremendous negative impacts on those communities both north and south of the border. The staging that takes place once they get athe border, staging up how theyre going to flight that particular facility. Oftentimes a longterm basis, not minutes or hours but days. Then the activity of actually flanking the check point puts them oftentimes in direct contact with those of them who do business and or who live there. Dont want to miss our friends to the north primarily in the vallies they, too, have an impact, when those involved in illegal activity flake the check point, come around and theyll reload in those communities, thats where they reengage with the rides going further north. That reconnecting puts people at risk. I know one hotel in the green valley area who has lost tremendous amounts of business. Unfortunately theres a large wash directly behind his hotel thats one of these reconnection points. And you can imagine as people are sitting in their hotel looking down and observing all of this activity going on. Dave, again, just decided not to come to that particular facility. The high speed chases are the result that Border Patrol trying to get those who involved in legal so whether youre in the area south of the check point, in the area where things are staged, whether youre in the area immediately surrounding the check point, where those involved in illegal activity are flanking, where those that have gotten past the check point and reconnect with their rides, it has create tremendous number of consequences for those of us who live in that community. I had said earlier, i said in my written testimony. If you can wrab it up. Were out of time. Absolutely. With that said, i appreciate the opportunity to be here and speak with you. The impaktss are very intended or not are very real for those who live in the area. Thank you. Thanks for the testimony. The chair now recognizes mrs. Davis for five minutes. I thank you for the opportunity today. Border check points are not always staffed and theyre not always open. If the resources use to staff them were directly at the border, then they would interdict illegal activity before it reaches the interior. I just read 25 miles north and hes been in that county since 1867. Weve always had some illegals we saw a change in their attitude. They began to be forces. Killed animals, robbed home, trampled grass and left tons of trash. In the trash we found plastic backpacks blankets medicines human wolf and jeg si. Trash from mexico is trash ri to us and been blankets of plastic bag. By 1995 the trash was out of control so the county hauled away 16 dump trucks loads just from a small area on our ranch. And thats just one example. Environmental damage is extensive on the border. Illegals came through by the millions. They trampled grazing land destroyed foil aj, gained millions of gallons of water. The damage has changed the landscape theyve caused soil erosion where the rain came. Wild life waters were destroyed. They sat there chief at the time david ago gu lar and the architect. In 2000 he actually came to our home and explained that the operation hold the line in el paso focused on intercepting and preventing illegal entries at the border, an op rigsal gate keeper proved to be skrr effective. This forced the illegal activity into the rural areas of arizona. It was designed to secure the cities where they have seconds or minutes to catch illegals. Instead of putting agents near the boarder, theyll be 25 miles or north of the border to allow those to come up to them. If the el paso plan worked so well, why doesnt the Border Patrol do the same thing in the rural areas, i guess. Residents alodge the border have gd for agents. Even though theyve holding the the line and gate keeper were do to stop the illegal flow of traffic directly at the border. Weve been told that it would not work or too dangerous. If its too dangerous. Why is not too dangerous for residence. Chief made the following statement to the arizona republic. Its not a defined line, but a corridor between the u. S. And mexico. This corridor is 35 mais inside the interior. How can a Government Official say that the border is not a boundary. We hear that agents are on the border. When they refer to agents control theyre twlly to the 30 plus mild corridor independent stead of the international boundary. Our friend was murdered in his own property 30 miles north of the border. He stopped to help illegal pretending to be injured as he stopped the man shot him. The check point nearest to me is open only if picks up. Those agents should be deployed very close to the border instead. John lance ranch is ton the border with 10 miles of 13 foot medal wall fixing. Cartels frequently cut the fence and drive their loads three miles north of the nearest highway. They drive back through the opening. In a 26 month time period, 54 trucks had accomplished this and only was hot. The brian terry station was only four miles away. Brian terry was also in the side ago lars corridor when he was killed. Cartel scouts camp on mountains. And corridor report activities to the drug cartel. We run out of mexico and u. S. Across the river is the three mild strand barbed wire fence. Occasionally one agent is watching this quarter mile area. Flood gates are raised to allow flood water out of mexico into the u. S. It covers the holes and the fence of three strands and anyone can walk in. Signs such as this one are not uncommon in the doir dor. That is the poor were so poorly protected and activities. The version nair fires and it had been set by drug runners. They have destroyed hundreds of thousands of hollywood. Land values have dropped to about half of their previous value. In closing, check points would not be necessary if agents were on the border. I have additional comments in my written record and i thank you for your time and ir just want to say i do expect the Border Patrol and the daunting task they have on a daily basis. I think its time to move on and change the strategy. The chair recommends the doctor for five minutes. Thank you for inviting me here to address you today. I am the executive director of the National Center for Border Security and immigration knowing as borders had had quartered in the university of 20 ol. We were december egg ig nated a center of designated a center of excellence. Offer the university programs, since that time we continued to receive funding from dhs, dod, as well as other International Agencies to conduct thg worg and we are a proud memberer of the newest facility and i headquartered at the university of houston. In 2009 its okay with the report assessing interior traffic check points and recommended that Border Patrol implement improvements in four different areas, first area is data quality and integrity. Second area is to examine the impacts these check points have on local communities. Third to determine how effective these check points actually are, one is the performance effectiveness and, fourth, to develop a managerial tool for better managing the number of lanes, the hours and the resources allocated to these check points. The university of arizona was provided with 500,000 to conduct this study. During the course of the study, we worked closely with Border Patrol, specifically, the office of Strategic Planning policy and analysis. We submitted by monthly reports. We were assigned a point of contact in the agency and we provided regular briefings to headquarters technology. You didnt operate in a vak chemo. We want hand and hand thats not going to happen. To conduct this study, we paid site visits to several sectors. Six on the southern border, one on the northern border to observe the check point operations. At these check points you will receive three things from the chief. We interviewed agents there. We also were provided with apprehension data from the e 3 system, cleanse data without identifying factors or a period of 20082011, as well as check point activity reports. For community impact, we conducted interviews with local Community Members near the border, specifically lock at the Law Enforcement on that, the resourt owner, owner, School Officials as well as citizens. For performance we did an in depth review. For the managerial well have the check point simulation model. To our findings, specifically, in the area of data quality and sbe zb integri integrity. The Gold Standard is act where youll see. Consistency and come prehifness of the data he probably comprehensive. We determined there were still a lot of errors and inconsistencies and things that were we were assured by Border Patrol that measures have been taken to improve Data Collection and we provided them with a risk of recommendations including his risk. The courses should drop down menus, other dramatic alerts and brit youll be able to get your 700 bucks back. We found that interviewing Community Members their concerns fell into three general areas, the first area was convenience factor, wait times at the check point. Youve met her im so for it. The second factor was economical, was sir couple vengs impacts because of illegal activity, trying to circumvent for the check point, neighboring communities, voiced that they experienced Public Safety issues and high speed chases through their neighborhood. We found there was a wide vak perception to the local Community Based on loss of tourism. We analyze sir couple vengs data around the i9 ten corridor which he used it one month. Its separately if youre just back, had sir couple vengs apprehension then communities north of the border. This is one area that we recommended that Border Patrol continue to monitor the sir couple vengs and neighboring activities. As far as real estate prices. We looked at housing plietss for communities south of the border, rio rico and south of the check point ree joe and north of the border and bring valley and found that while the day that indicated there was some loss in the prices south of the check point and two back that they were not significant enough to definitively say that the check point was the difference. This was complicated by the fact that our real estate Data Collection overlapped with the housing prices and the general u. S. Economic prices, 20082010 further research is needed on the area. Ill conclude with talking about the effectiveness of the issue. Since it is you. Right now check points are maesh sured bifr their apprehensions and im thrown. Im thrown away that this is an activity measure. Its not an eflkt tifness measure. If you dont know how much theyre getting through, you dont know how perspectively performing. If 101 people try to get through, youre doing pretty well. If 100 apprehensions are made a day. A thousand people are trying to get you through their your only 10 effective. We provide we provided, specific, recommendations to Border Patrol that the most practical efficient and nonbias way of measuring check points effectiveness is by conducting red teaming efforts, which refers to a team of agents from different federal agencies who in effect play act the role of smugglers or ill leefl immigrants attempting to get through a check point, carefully trained, with the specific script and then in the valley way, how many members are Border Patrol, ill catch it if it check points. This could introdex data can provide approximately for what the base level, what the denominator of illegal activity is getting through and can be used by check points to measure their effectiveness. If you wouldnt mind wrapping up and we could get more into that in the q and a. Certainly . Thank you. In terms of performance models, we developed a simulation model, measuring predictive at alex patrol that you can use to determine the adequate levels. I e might not be to answer, here. The chair recognizes mr. Ramirez for five minutes. Thank you very much and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to testify. It brings together over 60 Community Organizations and four southern border states. I was born in the war lands. They are my home. Notice i aid ill agree that the nations more beautiful and it equals remark. Does she look and say, this thing can mount and make several and hundreds of thousands of Sensitive Habitat protect and endangered species. Theyve called them and since before the physical structure you might have to take their people. An jebt roots are not acceptable. Go to border its also an economic engine from North Carolina nk, 56 crossing points gave system to our money and couldnt stream to do it where nearly 300,000 vehicles occur daily. U. S. Trade with mexico, find out what with youre doing with the mexico. The border landscape also includes heavy questions of flair line enforcement making this other brder one of the most materialized recent in the western 64 home. Wait. 24 four team more than 21,000. Theyre increased 7 and it more than tripled from 1995 to 2003. Instead och one billion dollars and not through that over 13 billion and thats why 2016, however, this dramatic increase of personnel and equipment has not been accompanied for the commensurate, ability and leading up to happen along the trust. The largest Law Enforcement agency in our nation, based on being able to significant republic debate, did you listen to the immigration nationality act to allow border control. And engage in other enforcement up to 100 miles and managed her to carry. Virtually everyone that i know has been subjected to questioning at check points. In some communities they must pass through check points to see work, school, opportunity. Its not economic and what we have an impact on our children. Even i feel compelled to in order to prevent necessary glaze or works. Perhaps, what is most hurtful is that my son must also, whenever we tried to come up with my girlfriend. Hell say go count me. You may know u. S. Citizens are not required to carry proof of citizenship, we do. For border residence, the land of the free that most converted has been converted into land scale check point. These people arent required to prove, as they go about their dilly lives. As corrector, i see and experience firsthand the great impact. Check points daily activities. They need mexico my good friend who grew up communicating through the check points from this hometown. Good luck. Two ground fairs to keep it moving and most recently, you cant if hes from mexico state university. He always kt confirmed the u. S. Agency to its driving me but a detained him because he refused to consent to a search. Residents have refused to evacuate their homes in weather related emergencies for fear they will be apprehended by Border Patrol. My colleagues contend with hundreds of Migrant Deaths each year. Our friends along the northern border have also endured enforcement practices that undermine the trust, from Washington State to the streets of detroit to upstate new york, border residents experience excessive use of force, racial profiling, and unconstitutional searches and seizure. No one is more concerned about the security of the homeland than the border residents. But we are equally concerned about our quality of life. Congress should reduce the reach Must Immediately ban racial profiling and implement a come prehen save comprehensive Data Collection. Including body cameras with a strong policy framework and an effective responsive complaint system. Ultimately, residents want what our fellow citizens enjoy, the ability to move from point a to point b without excessive government intrusion. I remain hopeful that one day my son will be able to visit his grandparents without the indignity of armed agents at a check point interrogating him about whether he belongs in this nation or not. I thank you for the time. Thank you. I recognize myself for five minutes for a first round of questions. I appreciate the testimony of the second panel and i will just share my perspective at the chairwoman of this subcommittee is often times in washington, d. C. , people are looking for areas of disagreement so people can put their jerseys on and figure out where we can find the biggest controversy. My intent in this leadership position, and with this subcommittee hearing, is to look for areas of agreement. Look for areas where, across the spectrum and from different perspectives that we can find some understanding and Common Ground that needs to be based on facts and the experiences of the people that all of you are representing and the facts of the studies that you have done related to the impact of the current strategy on our community. Soy appreciate all of your testimonies. In order to present and highlight for the record the challenges that communities are having with the defense strategy, which including the checkpoints. I believe that we can between as all americans to identify solutions that are going to have the objective of keeping our country safe, keeping our communities safe, preserving our Civil Liberties, and making sure that our border communities are not being impacted negative hi, economically, environmentally across the board. These are the things that are not in contradiction with each other. And i do appreciate the perspectives of the second panel has shown where we can come to places of agreement, that there are negative impacts that need to be addressed. And people across the political spectrum would agree that theres things we need to be doing differently to secure our border, keep our community and country safe, protect our i feel liberties and provide opportunity for individuals, communities to be able to grow and prosper and meet their economic potential and not have negative impacts from the strategy that recurrently have. So i appreciate the different perspectives from everybody on the panel today. Followup questions, i know yall didnt get to some of the things that were in your written testimony. Weve had conversations on multiple occasions about the impact in Southern Arizona of specifically the checkpoints. So youre now chief morgan, youre now responsible for the mission of keeping these very communities that youre advocating for safe, based on i know youve had multiple conversations and studies about this issue. But we want to make sure we also come up with shuolutions. So if youre in charge, if we today just got rid of checkpoints but didnt adjust the strategy, thats not necessarily making us safer and stopping the cartels. Thats actually going to have i think a negative implication. So if youre in charge, what would you do differently and how would that happen in order to address the issues that youve been able to address today in your testimony . You bet. Thank you, and i agree with your comment just a moment ago. I think we are looking for that overlap. But to the point specifically that you asked, theres a variety of things that can be done and some of them are already being employed by the Border Patrol. I think rebuilding the port of entry was a huge first step so that there was more Technology Available at the border as trucks and others are coming across. But i also think that it was referred to earlier by chief morgan, the use of aerial vehicles, whether drones or helicopters, but i think theres technology that can be giving realtime information to our agents on the ground, and areas that is likely for those involved in illegal activity to cross. So the drones, i think the vehicle barriers, i also think that for those areas that are very rough and somewhat inaccessible along the border. I understand the Border Patrol has used the Forward Operating bases where agents are out there on horseback, and in some cases with backpacks, patrols those areas. I think something as simple as sharing intelligence with local Law Enforcement. The sheriffs and the police departments, things of that nature. I know theres been some holdups in the communication element so these people of varying agencies can talk together on the radio in realtime, because they use different band widths and things. And i also think some time ago a virtual fence was looked into. I know that technology had some challenges to it. But now were far enough down the road that hopefully some of those challenges have been overcome and the use of Virtual Technology would play a more significant role. So theres no Silver Bullet from my perspective of one thing we can do, but using all those things in combination would help. Same question, youre now in charge of the Border Patrol. Youve shared some of it in your verbal and written testimony, representing the border residents. What would you recommend we do . I think that chief morgan is making a really good first step by doing exactly what hes doing right now. Hes going to every single sector and finding out what their individual needs are. I have friends all along the border, from san diego to brownsville, texas. And every sector is really different. I spoke with mr. Morgan this morning briefly, and i said i understand that each sector its bad all across the border, but its different bad, which is not a very grammatically correct statement. But it is different bad. Theyre all different. Hes got to find out what is unique about each one and figure out what works better in that particular sector. Really just reaching out, building a personal relationship with all the sector chiefs. I think theres a disconnect sector to sector along the border, from 40 years of history with the border, i see that just in arizona. Theres not any cohesiveness or its not run the same way in each sector. So what happens in say in Santa Cruz County is not what happens in the douglas sector. There needs to be continuity along the border. I dont know how he accomplishes that, except to communicate, communicate, communicate, and just really outline the problems of each specific sector and how they relate to each other, because they all neighbor each other along the border. You have to become Good Neighbors with those people and decide what is acceptable in this sector and whats acceptable in this one and make them cohesive. So not a one size fits all, but also being adaptable and nimble, because were the bad guys are going to be nimble, as well. Right. Theyre going to move and do their thing. Hike the little dutch boy with his finger in the dyke, wherever you stop it up, theyre going to go around. I do agree with mr. Ramirez that none of us like to be profiled, none of us do. I dont necessarily appreciate having a police force presence either, but i know we have to have some strong leadership and backup, and i just i could see that happening if theres more communication. Thank you. I dont know if you can answer that question, not just for this study on checkpoints but all the research and efforts that have happened at the university. Do you have any perspective . Certainly. If i was wearing the green hat, i think theres some lowlying issues that would be relatively easy for Border Patrol to implement, specifically the data integrity and quality issues are fairly straightforward. Any smart masters or doctoral student could implement them in a short amount of time. I know getting the funds for Technology Change isnt as easy as it may sound in dealing with an agencys budget. But those are relatively quick and expensive changes that can be made, as well as the simulation model for checkpoints for managing traffic and resource allocation is a relatively easy thing to fix. The harder level issues to address are first, the efficiency and effectiveness issues. Its difficult for an agency to undergo a test and evaluation of how well theyre performing. Weve all had job evaluations that have us in a high sense of nervousness. But i think its ultimately to Border Patrol and the nations benefit for an objective assessment of their performance effectiveness, be it by red teaming as we recommended or some other measure. We as the citizens need to know how well checkpoints are doing before we can decide what to do about them. And finally, community impacts. You know, thats a much messier issue to address, because it encompasses so many factors as the other Panel Members address. But from my perspective, trying to see which data can be utilized, can be put in a quantitative form, such as housing prices and school lockdowns, such as incidents of profiling, by gathering that data, Border Patrol can present a more accurate and transparent picture to the border residents. Mr. Ramirez . Thank you. I would agree, one of the things we need to know is how effective are these checkpoints, and without that transparency and overnight, whats been created is a mistrust between local residents and cbp. I think that should be our biggest concern. No one we enjoy wonderful relations with local Law Enforcement. And we know that the best way to provide Public Safety is by ensuring that local residents could call the local Police Station and say i see something, a suspect here. Can you check it out . Ill tell you, when it comes to Border Patrol, thats not the case. We have Serious Problems with corruption. We have a perception in the public that this agency operates with impunity, that lacks transparency. But i think the commissioner has taken important steps. Weve been engaged in a very robust conversation with the commissioner. I think that chief morgans greatest capacity when he was heading internal affairs in an interim capacity, created the conditions for more transparency. Without those transparency accountability and overnight mechanisms that are urgently needed in cdp, its very difficult to have communities say, im going to call Border Patrol if i see something going on because of the experiences of i described. Weve all been mistreated and what makes me suspect is the color of my skin. Unless we reverse that and follow and force them to follow the same guidelines the department of justice has done in terms of banning racial profiling, it will be very difficult to gain that trust. However, i do want to reiterate that the commissioner has taken wonderful steps in the direction of accountability and overnight. But we need to make sure we implement those reforms as soon as possible so that we can narrow the gap between communities and cdp. The chair recognizes my Sheila Jackson lee. I thank the chairwoman very much. Let me specifically say to witnesses, i appreciate very much your testimony. I was delayed because i was in a meeting on criminal justice reform. But i wanted to make sure that i had an opportunity to at least hear some of the very important testimony. I want to say to ms. Davis and mr. Brasher, that is the reason what we call the peoples house, for you to petition your government. I have heard you. I am have texas. Spent a lot of time on the border, walking the border, traveling to the border, traveling over the border to mexico, looking at the resources. Ive been on the Homeland Security committee. A few days after 9 11, i came on this committee when we formulated the Homeland Security committee. If there was anything embedded in my heart, it was to protect the american people. I want to just to add some comments. When i cochaired this committee or was the Ranking Member with candice miller, we wrote the 1417 border act of 2013. It was a bipartisan, comprehensive Border Security bill. Now, it insisted on 90 operational control, and i would always be eager to raise that money. But that was the initial writing of the legal border crosses. Thats certainly far from where we are today. Were not at that. It directed the secretary of the department to develop and report to congress for approval a National Strategy to gain and maintain operational control of the nations border. Thats what im hearing you say. Im just going to ask a brief question about that. To live your eyes, to have operational control would be great, that you could know what was going on, detain those illegally crossing. Weve got a lot of overlap and a lot of opportunities to use some of the talents and work that was already there. But i think what was important about this for mr. Ramirez as well, it required oversight agency, the numbers guys, to do and independent Investigative Team to verify the viability of the department strategy. Were they meeting their goals. The implementation of the plan, the metrics and the results. Thats what i hear all of you saying, lets get something that works. So i just want to ask a brief question for mr. Brash and i want to thank dr. Goala, because we need academics dealing with this issue. Mr. Brasher, you want something that works at the border, is that my understanding . Yes, congresswoman. So theres discussion about moving the line of scrimmage. Certainly, i think we need to listen to you. My point would be, in making that determination, is the data do you want us to listen to you but also to do that pilot or to implement Going Forward on enhanced Border Security but getting the data and making sure were getting it right, would that be helpful to you . Yes, im not suggesting question go out willynilly and start changing things. To get the data, and then sitting down and having a cogent discussion about whether that overlap is and what solutions exist. Ms. Davis, listening to you articulate, i want to immediately give you solutions, but the data, is that important to you so that we get the results that you need to have for you to continue your business . Data is important, of course, i think it is always is. Its an important thing to know and when you see it change over the years, you know that something is either being helped or hindered. But i think as we live daytoday, those of us who live in the border lands, we feel it. Right. And i think its important to note that its not just about my safety or my familys safety. I feel like this is my country. The National Security is at risk. And i think that you would have a more humanitarian approach if you stopped the traffic at the border. I dont think you would have the deaths. I mean, every rancher i know has found dead bodies. I know. Ive been there. Its disheartening when you find that. You feel for these people. I dont want people to think were not humanitarian, because i have taken care of a lot of illegals that have come through over the years with medicine and help and water and food and all of the above. But while figures are important, i can see it and feel it on a daily basis whether its working or not. That was the underlying premise of the legislation that we drafted a year or two ago, which is actually action. It was at that time called the border results act of 2013. Let me go on here, and i would like to ask mr. Ramirez a question. Doctor, the former commissioner, and as i understand, commissioner morgans testimony that he has to get his hands around the issue and he wants to determine whether the resources are being used in the right place. The previous commissioner committed to reviewing checkpoint data to justify the use of resources. As we listen, they have said results. In your academic analysis, would that be a good methodology for the government to do, to make sure these resources tell us what scrimmage line we should be at . Yes, with the caveat that we need to understand what data is being provided to us, and what its actually measuring. As we discussed before, apprehension data in itself is only giving you a snapshot in time whats happening. We have to understand how much activity is going through, and what percentage of that unknown level of activity, the apprehension data is capturing. And only until we know that and develop a proxy data for measuring the unknown quantity of illegal activity can we know how effective apprehension data is. Otherwise, the apprehension data and other similar snapshots can be interpreted or manipulated over time. Knowledge is actually power. I indicated how long ive been on this committee. It was at a time when our Border Patrol agents were at a very small number. We collectively enhanced those numbers, but also i was out on the border with Border Patrol agents at night, and we gave simple things like night goggles, laptops, which a decade or so ago they did not have. So im very cognizant of that, as i am cognizant, doctor, that your work enhanced mr. Ramirezs concern, making sure we get the right information that we dont vie hate the Civil Liberties of individuals. And i thank you for that. Thank you for that instruction. I just want to move to mr. Ramirez, if i can. And acknowledge the point of what you spoke, and that is people reside along the southern borders, especially those americans of mexican or spanish descent, that have resided in the United States for eons. Texas, new mexico, arizona, we have worked together with the mexicanamerican community for decades. It is important that those generational linkages bestows upon them and all citizens their Civil Liberties. Im concerned about the great work that youre doing, and if i might just pose for a moment the question that i hope you can answer. The gao has reported that a component of the strategy for checkpoints is to cause illegal entranlts to use less travel on secondary roads. Officials stated that other priorities sometimes precluded positions more than a minimum number of agents and resources. Has a Border Patrol taken steps, and youre working with them over the years, to minimize the danger to migrants who may seek to circumvent the check points and minimize the impact on surrounding neighborhoods . What more must be done . Thank you very much for your question. The last two years, the commissioner and his team have been diligent about meeting with southern and northern border communities. However, there is a huge mistrust between cdp and border communities, particularly people of color living in the southern border and increasingly so with canada. Without those basic components, congresswoman, i would say it would be very difficult for cdp to gain the trust of not only residents, but of our local and state elected officials. So in order for us to reevaluate the checkpoints, we need to make sure that local elected officials, that school districts, that tribal governments are part of the conversation to look at what is the impact of checkpoints in our daily lives . We havent had that conversation ever. The time to have that conversation is now, and thats why i appreciate very much this subcommittee having an opportunity for us finally to have an important conversation about the impact that checkpoints have on our daily lives. Let me wrap up and make this point and ask two questions. First of all, i am a strong supporter of comprehensive Immigration Reform, that is a wholistic vow of access to citizenship, but also the strong handling of the border. I am not a person who runs away from that issue. I just noticed the Border Patrol had a Strategic Plan and probably the previous commissioner and i hope youve been involved, and this is something we want to encourage. This is how they hear about the concerns on the ground. So i want to just pose these questions, because i dont hear any adverse viewpoint from you about the responsibilities of the federal government securing the border. But youre looking at the way to do it and a way to respect all of the citizens that travel. So would you share with me some of yourself liberty challenges and concerns with stopping that is going on and might i qualify this by saying, having worked with them and have spoken to them in large numbers, able, hardworking servants Border Patrol agents are. I know that. Let me publicly thank them for their service. What were trying to do here is make a matrix that would work. So if you would share that and share, as well the comment that you made about racial profiling and maybe you have an anecdotal assessment so we can look at how we use a Border Patrol checkpoints to make them effective for the Law Enforcement duties, but also comport with the very basic value of this nation. If you can talk about Civil Liberties and the issue of racial profiling. Thank you very much. Perhaps the biggest travesty in the border region is the moral obligation we have as a nation to stop the deaths of our brothers and sisters coming across the border. Operate gate keeper and operation hold the line were mentioned earlier with chief morgan. Those two policies are directly policy for deaths of thousands of folks. The time has come to reevaluate. That moral weight that we have on our nations shoulders. So addressing that issue is important. We have worked with the commissioner to do things like deploy residue beacons so when folks are in disstress, they can press a button and we can deploy the Border Patrol to prevent that death. That is the number one civil rights acrotrocity were facing. When it comes to racial profiling, congresswoman, i mentioned earlier, i cant leave my hometown of san diego without going to a checkpoint. If you wa the time to end the shameful practice of racial profiling has come. And the entity that must lead by example is customs and border protection. The department of justice has issued guidance in that regard. The white house has issued guidelines for 21st century policing. That is the number one civil rights violation were facing in our own country. I have to show proof of citizenship when i want to take my child to see his grand parents. That is the most dramatic impact that this lack of accountability and lack of transparency, heavy handed enforcement has in our daily lives. The issues of use of force in our region have been addressed adequately, first by mr. Morgan and hopefully now in his current ten your, but we are talking about u. S. Citizens. We are talking about children, mexican nationals, standing on the mexican side of the border who sl been killed by agents and officers. And those cases remain unresolved. In order for us to protect the homeland, we must protect the basic values that we hold dear to our nation. Those are the values of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And we will be happy the day im able to take my kids to see his grand parents and i dont have to be pulled over to question a 2yearolds nationality. That is a shameful practice in our country. I want to thank the witnesses and the chairwoman. Shes been enormously kind, and this is a passion of mine. Im excited that i got to hear the real important people that were here on this panel. I just want to conclude by saying that, madame chairwoman, we developed from 2012 to 2016 this outreach program. Maybe well another hearing when we bring additional representatives about new mexico, texas, and to hear whether or not those meetings are working. And then i do think, mr. Ramirez, and ive heard no contrary testimony, is very much worth listening to developing the racial profiling matrix to try and deal with those citizens traveling about. And i think he specifically, since hes from san diego, talking about going up north, but going up north in his state of california and having not crossed any border and then having to be subjected to that. So making sure that checkpoints, thats action in checkpoints. I think what weve got here is a meeting of the mind that weve got to be reasonable. You were here, but i would encourage to look again at hr1417 and how it could be updated. We drew bipartisan support. There were some bumps in the road about the 90 versus 100 . I dont know if anyone can reach that number. But certainly in keeping with mr. Ramirezsed a m admonition. I think if we had that legislation, we wouldnt have a number that keeps going up and down. Were not sure 11 million individuals are seeking status here. But i think our work here is about Border Security, and i think these have been very instructive testimonies and to each of you, im so grateful that you came this morning. Thank you. Im going to get to work on the great suggestions that youve made. I yield back, madame chair. Thank you. A lot of other questions. I first want to comment that we dont have the voice of agents at the table today. And i think it is important. And ive heard you all say that we have men and women out there putting on the uniform every single day to serve their country in a different way, to keep our country and our community safe. Many of them are veterans, and this is a continuation of their service. We recently lost Manuel Alvarez in the tucson sector because of the dangers of the type of job that they do. We recently had a shooting incident at a port of entry. I want to help, keep our community and our country safe. And chief morgan mentioned 7542 assaults on agents happening. When i was in the military, when we would see challenges of any issues related to, you know, mission execution, we would always ask as leaders, have we given them the guidance, resources, and training to do the job and do it well . So we should be asking ourselves to the Border Patrol leadership in washington, d. C. , guidance, resources, and training for them to be able to do the job. None of them get up in the morning and say, lets not secure the border. These men and women are doing what theyre told to do with the training and resources they have been given. And we are here to look at that Bigger Picture of what needs to change as far as the resources, training and policy. When i went out there with them a few months ago, they talked about how many of them are out by themselves patrolling at night without any night vision goggles. This doesnt make any sense. I know you talked about the increase of the resources were using, but we need to make sure, and this is part of our discussion, that those resources are used as well. Is it the right amount of manpower and resources to execute the correct strategy, to make sure were being effective, implementing the right technologies. Again, were taking care of the men and women to make sure that theyre compensated for their service, and all the elements that go with that. Were not investing in issues that dont work. Which gets to the issue of effectiveness. How do we know were being effective with our resources. In order to get to the objectives that again we can all agree on, keep the country safe, keep the community safe, protect Civil Liberties, dont impact the daily lives and the Economic Situation and the security situation for our communities. Madame chair, i apologize. May i just put into the record, moving the line of scrimmage. Without objection. Thank you very much. I just want to remind ourselves that even with the k weve had, our intent needs to be to find where we can better equip these men and women out there serving with the guidance, resources and training that they need, with the context of the information that were representing today. I know this have been many conversations at the local level, the sector level. We have a new chief of the Border Patrol. So this is our opportunity again to take a fresh look with new leadership to find that Common Ground, were providing the resources who are doing a very dangerous job. And were having the right strategy that we are going to go out and execute on a daily basis. I will say that we have two bills, two of my bills that passed unanimously in the house related to this. One is the order Technology Security act, which says if thats an investment in technology, that it has procurement guidelines and accountability to make sure its not wasting taxpayer resources. It passed unanimously in the house. We have another one addressing the full new threat assessment of the southern border, the situation awareness, operational control, so that we can have, again, a common understanding of what were dealing with, as we are addressing now that we understand what were dealing with, what is the best way to address the threat. So i want to follow up with a second round with everybody of again, we dont have chief morgan at the table with you. So last round, i asked you to be chief morgan. Now we have the opportunity to followup with him, with questions from us to him about the issues related to this current strategy. So what questions would you have, to chief morgan, that you would like us to ask him related to your testimony and related to addressing this address in depth that we have today . Starting with mr. Barber . Thank you, congresswoman. I think in terms of a question, maybe i would say its a question and an invitation. I recognize, i know hes got a tough job. Hes got a whole border. Im focused more on arizonas border right now. But i think hes on the right track by getting out in the communities and frankly, with all respect to he and his leadership team, i think it would be wonderful if he would come and sit down with people such as ourselves in these communities and just start a dialogue. The questions i might come up with right now, maybe some of them are totally different to questions that other people in our communities would bring up. I know thats easier said than done. I know when people in leadership travel, its just not easy. You travel with Public Relations people, et cetera. I applaud you going out with an agent one on one and just watching what they experienced. But its those kind of experiences that will bring a lot of what were sharing in our testimonies full circle. I would encourage him to abandon his uniform and drive through the checkpoints and just watch how the interaction takes place. What happens with the dogs, what happens when someone goes over the secondary and often times is subjected to what might be referred to as indignity of standing by while your car is torn apart, or youre questioned more in depth, of coming down and sitting down in a coffee shop with real business people. I know its a longwinded answer to a simple question, but i think there will be more questions that would come from Something Like that. I think they would be very valuable as he forms his Strategic Plan moving forward. Ms. Davis . I have a million questions, but hell have to take a deep breath. I actually invited him myself this morning to come down to the southern border in arizona to see that it is very different than texas. I think i would ask him one thing would be how do you plan to make that whole border a cohesive thing. How do you make it the u. S. Border, not the tucson sector of the border . I just think thats really important, and ive already forgotten my second idea. Thats okay. We have invited him and we will continue, but look, our subcommittee has oversight over the entire border. So he needs to get out to texas, california, and talk to not just the dog and pony show that often comes with leadership visiting the field, but talking to businesses, talking to people, those that are seeing the impacts and the agents to get the unfiltered one of the things that concerns me, and i know it concerns mr. Ramirez, its not unique to hispanics. Sometimes when you go through the Border Patrol, you feel like youre being interrogated. Ive had to open my trunk for no reason. You know, i think one of the things he has to make sure to do is make sure those agents react and relate to the people coming through like theyre really human people that assume that we have a right to be there. I think its an interaction between the public and the Border Patrol. And you dont want to think of them as the enemy. You want to think of them as your friend. I think thats one comment i would have. Sometimes Relationship Building in the community, and making sure theres continuity of training of practices of what is probable cause and now they can do the searches and things is what i heard. Look, i agree, this is america, not the gaza strip. So to have law abiding american citizens have to be subjected with this, this is ideally not where we want to be. Again, we have to balance that with where we are right now, and start moving towards i any a strategy that addresses all the issues that have been here today, in a way thats thoughtful and not reckless. I think we can all agree that the more we can move the line of scrimmage and not have the impact thats been talked about today, i think the better off well be. So thank you. I would follow up on the question that you asked chief morgan, what have you done with the recommendations that were made in the university of arizona study . Because i do not have a good answer on that. The Research Team at the university put in a tremendous amount of brain power and time and hours and thoughtfulness and dialogue with Border Patrol to make sure we understood their issues. We did not want to be our framework on them. We wanted to use their framework to inform our research. We provided very specific recommendations and i would greatly appreciate a sitdown with chief morgan to frankly discuss, you know, did these recommendations work for you . If not, why not . Is there another way we could approach their problem . Is there other restraints that you have as Border Patrol chief that prevents you from implementing some of the recommendations . And if so, what other measureks we take . I firmly believe in action Oriented Research and data driven research and would greatly appreciate the opportunity to help push these recommendations or other recommendations to be useful to Border Patrol and in protecting our nation. This goes back to being a good steward of the limited resources we have. If the taxpayer has invested in the brain power and efforts of all of you at the university of arizona, what are we doing with it to make sure that and the partnership of followup of what else we could be doing moving forward is extremely important with all the expertise that your team has provided. So when we do invite the chief there, well make sure it includes a visitor to your team, too. Im always framed by my experiences in the military. If youre out there doing your job, youre spending two hours doing your job and eight hours processing information, that is important. But youve got to make it usable for the agent so theyre not putting data in a nonuser friendly way. Mr. Ramirez . Thank you, chairwoman. I think my fellow panelists touched on something thats fundamental, which is to have ongoing conversations with folks who live there, and who actually have solutions. We are not part of the problem here, were part of the solution. The problem has been when the bureaucracy fails to understand and pick up the recommendations that, for several years, we have been putting on the table before cdp and the department of Homeland Security. But i will point at one important issue, which is the issue of retention, of Border Patrol agents. As i said, i grew up on the southern border. A lot of my classmates from high school and college are Border Patrol agents. They understand what the border is about. But a lot of my good friends dont stay as Border Patrol agents because of the morale issues. If we dont have folks being recruited from the communities that these agents were sworn to protect, its very difficult to understand the historic legacy that border lands have had, and theres the issue of recruitment, particularly of women. We have to look into why are we not recruiting enough women for Border Patrol . Only 5 of the force is women. If we look at how do we recruit agents from communities, how do we recrout women, i think we will develop a much better relationship with folks and ill guarantee you that if somebody is staffing a border, i know who you are, youre any neighbor, we go to the same church. It will be a different relationship. And i think its about toning down the way that Border Patrol carries itself in our communities and ensuring that we have a much better relationship. That has to begin at the top. Because the folks on the ground want to do that, and unfortunately, the good folks who want to work for Border Patrol arent being retained by the agency. Great. Thank you. This was a robust discussion. I really appreciate the time and the effort of all the panelists to come out today to testify before the subcommittee. We will continue to address and highlight the issues related to this, as chief morgan gets his feet on the ground, to follow up with him and to Work Together to find ways to make sure were securing our border well, while taking into account all the impacts that have been shared today by those that are representing parts of the communities that are being impacted. So appreciate all of your perspectives a and the time and effort you took to testify today. The members of the community may have some additional questions for the witnesses, so we would ask that you please respond in writing when we send those. Pursuant to rule 7e, the record will be held open for ten days. Without objection, the committee now stands adjourned. This weekend, on American History tv, on cspan3, saturday evening, just after 7 00, author alison kibler, on the history of hate speech and senatorship in america, examining images of irish and africanamericans used in Popular Culture and the backlash to the book the klansman, the basis of the movie the birth of a nation. A large group of africanamericans gathered outside the walnut street theater when the klansmen were scheduled to appear. One would estimated that 2,000 africanamericans came to protest, another thousand whites came to observe the protest. At the start of the play, one africanamerican man threw an egg at the stage from the gallery, and someone shouted we want no atlanta here, referring to the atlanta race riots. Sunday this morning at 10 00, the second 1988 Vice President ial debate between george